lets hear some informed opinions....and uninformed as its going to happen anyway.....bob

I've never looked into the reverse mortgage in any depth at all, and rarely even think of it except when I see promotions and marketing for "the product." For some reason, when I saw it mentioned here this morning the first thing that popped into my head was "you will own nothing and you will be happy." That's not an indictment, it's not an accusation, it's not even an opinion...just a statement.

Would be helpful to understand what you are trying to solve for first. That added context would be helpful, as in most instances RM’s are far from ideal.

probably not far off about anything in life...bob

cfran...not really try to solve anything, just wondering why they are so bad as a lot make them out to be....bob

It would probably depend to a great degree on whether you have family and wish to leave them any type of estate.

Pay now or pay later.

this....also you would probably still leave something, just not as much......bob

From what I have read and heard you need to be very careful about the fees charged to maintain the loan.

Imagine it's like everything else...people too dumb to understand and don't bother to read the contract and then bitch later about how they were taken advantage of

They're popular with old folks who didn't plan ahead for retirement or have outlived their savings. They own a house and an RM allows them to borrow against it for money to live on. It all has to be paid back, though, and their heirs usually end up selling the house to pay it off. There's no end to the ways that a scammer can get to them, though. A person considering one needs to be careful about who they go to.

more than likely...bob

Not for everyone. Looks like a great deal - get your money now, owe nothing when you die.

Problem is, it's a very costly type of loan and the occupant still must maintain the property and make repairs as needed. Not like you're living there for free. Most are better off either taking out a home loan or selling and downsizing.

A friend's mother had one. She had a leak in the kitchen, mold, water damage, etc and died without fixing the damage. The originator somehow put a lean on her estate to repair the damage. Made the whole probate process drag on for months on end.

Its a mortgage like any other, to make money for the bank. The bank makes that money from the equity from your property instead of regular interest. That percentage of equity goes to the bank, not you. Might be better to sell the property and downsize, keeping that equity for you self. My folks took out a reverse when they ran out of money for retirement. They missed the real estate market back in 07' 08' when they had offers of over $1.5 mil. Mom wanted to sell , step dad didn't. They ended up with about $400k after it was said and done.
Ya gotta know when to hold em' and when to fold em'.

My uncle did one. Developed terminal cancer and on his death his wife had 30 days to vacate. He had to keep her separated from his money because she would spent twice what he made so there is that.

Do a little more research, this is a very expensive way to tap liquidity and as others have mentioned it’s horrible from an estate planning perspective. In a way it’s similar to buying annuities, given most aren’t smart enough to fully comprehend the hidden costs/fees.

Ironically when people ask about them, and pardon me but I’m generalizing, it’s usually asked by those that have made poor financial planning decisions and now need money. It’s that simple.

so she had to vacate because her name wasn't on the property/loan...sucks but not the banks fault...bob

good points....I will give you my situation.....I don't "need" a reverse mortgage...I own my home, cars, boats...and not talking about old stuff, all 2022 low miles....trailers, tractor etc. don't take ss yet...64+ have money saved to live on ..no debt except living expenses.

going to downsize again. why not take one out? shhitload of equity, don't care if there is anything left, to be used for more hunting/fishing trips. trying to see the downside here....bob
.

Seems to me, that a reverse mortgage would be the very last resort.

+1 cfran.

In general, a reverse mortgage is going to be the worst solution to a problem.

I don't have any horror stories. However, I did know a guy who took one out. He died within the year, and the wife was put in an apartment by her relatives and the house was sold. I don't she lasted another year. This was one of those "Apres moi, le Deluge" situations. The old couple was at the end of their ropes and just needed some operating capital to get to the end of the line.

Nobody in this deal was financially literate. However, if it had been me, I'd have pulled my own head off before I signed up for a reverse mortgage.

It’s every expensive if you can do the math, but given the above I still am not clear what we are solving for. If you downsize w/o the RM will you not have freed up some cash? Do you need more before you start drawing SS?

An RM for a guy like you should be a last resort, you aren’t desperate and out of money.

Well, Tom Selleck says they are a good idea.

Were it me in your situation.....and I wanted to downsize, I'd sell the house and keep the equity myself. I'd then use that cash to buy the smaller place and likely have some leftover.

Reverse mtg is for when you want to stay in the current home, no?

Seriously, would it not be better to cash out and rent a place?

If the house is paid off, that's a loser. They're handing it out to a 3d party.

The acreage I own was part of a 120 acre ranch just the main home place. The other plots were sold off. The lady then had the 120 subdivided so her kids could all get 10-15 acres to put homes on. She sold the old home and 40 acres separate as it was on it's own well. Should have done fine after that but after putting in a small home and garage and gifting to much money to family her income was insufficient for her lifestyle. She got a reverse.mortage to supplement her income. When she died her son found out that her estate was gone if they didn't cough up 170k to keep the house. He had power of attorney and after laying it on the line to the rest of the family he sold the place in a hurry to come out a little ahead of it being repossessed. If you have family make them earn and borrow their own money if you want to leave an estate to heirs never get a reverse mortage. Pretty God damn simple no matter what QUIGLEY says..mb

I know a guy with a chain of restaurants that could not control his own cash flow.
A financial advisor sets up a retirement account that sends a monthly payment.
This is a high end example of the 62% of Americans that live paycheck to paycheck with no savings.


When I was in college in the 70s, I would show other students how to budget their summer job savings to last through a 9 month school year.
These were seemingly intelligent students, whose well off parents lived paycheck to paycheck.

cfran ..... in short....been to africa 1 time...going again in 25 . not cheap trips at all, think elephant etc. looking at spain , argentina.

those kind of trips are exspensive.....I am retired. so after those trips that's it.....an rm would expand my travel that's it.

or I can die with a paid off house .....cant take it with you....everyone's opinions on this are appreciated......bob

I kinda like that tom guy..lol...bob

I have done that once already...next house is it....bob

I see where JG Wentworth is working to expand into them, so that right there should be a red flag.

greg I don't need to do that.....bob

I agree...bob

Insurance, accident, liability,upkeep,utilites and taxes are still due.

yes... just like they are whether your house is paid for or not...bob

If someone is trying to sell you on the idea of a RM it’s probably not in YOUR best interest.

I picked up some furniture for my elderly cousin. She had bought it from a lady who was being evicted from the home she and her husband owned. Apparently she signed some paperwork along with her husband that ended the contract when he died. The outfit that furnished them the money did not make her aware of that provision and she being an elderly old Pentecostal lady did what her husband and the bank said for her to do without reading the contract.

Something like that should be unlawful. But people should always remember that you are holding the equivalent of dynamite when you are holding a pen.

I know a family that was put into bankruptcy when their adult son got into a motorcycle wreck and signed a document agreeing to pay. They were emotionally distraught at the ER and the boy was badly injured.

I would get with a really good mortgage broker who can do reverses etc and have them run the numbers for you. It boils down to the numbers.

It’s nice to paid off house but being house rich don’t don’t kill elephants.

problem is its me talking myself in or out of it...bob

and thus the deilima....bob

One of my uncles took one out. Both son's have passed away and daughter told him she didn't want the house and 3 or 4 acres that goes with it.

He took the money, bought a new truck and traveled. He's made trips all over the continental US and went to Alaska. Been doing this for the last 10 years or so. Still lives in the house and all is fine. According to him, when he passes away, his daughter will have 2 options. One, pay the company back their money and the place is hers, or two, let the company have the place.

It's working for him, but he's the only person I know that has gone that route. I might add that he didn't owe and hasn't owed anything on the house for 40 years or more. That might make a difference, I dont know.

Up front costs can be expensive.

Loan origination fees as much as $6,000.

You pay the full mortgage insurance premium up front, about 3% of the total amount.

Same normal closing fees, as much as $5,000

You may have to pay for any repairs needed up front if the house doesn’t meet inspection or HUD guidelines.

They get mostly desperate, house rich low income owners.

the bank is not entitled to more than what is owed to them......even if they sell it. good for your uncle...bob

Any chance of selling out, moving into a 55+ retirement community with low property taxes and having enough cash to do what you want to do? Or would that be a fate worse than death!?

One thing to consider.....is that children are not entitled to shìt.

What purpose is this?

You don't have any children or grand children to leave it to?

As Calvin pointed out it all depends on the terms. I would talk to a professional ( realtor, Banker etc ) that I trusted if I was not sure I could live with the terms.

You don't leave an inheritance to your children because they are entitled, you leave them an inheritance because you love them and they love you.

I agree....bob

Calvin....I would still want the money from my house, no matter were it was located....the question is do I die with a paid off house and leave it to kids or my wife and I enjoy the extra money as we slip/dive into older age?

they would sell it anyway....I have busted my ass to get what I have.....they can bust theirs too if its important enough for them to get ahead.....bob

with out question.....bob

...this is the time for my wife and me.....let them work hard, didn't kill me.....bob

Perhaps but this isn’t a one size fits all answer. Some people like me will choose to leave my kids something upon death, but it’s not their God given right, it’s what we want to do as a couple. Seems like you have a chip on your shoulder.

True, but I cannot think of anyone I would rather help out than my 3 children and our 5 grandchildren. As long as they are living responsibly.

We aren't wealthy but are completely debt free and have enough income for our lifestyle which doesn't include island resorts, jewelry, or casinos. We do travel, mostly to the western U.S.

My wife is a certified financial advisor and she states a reverse mortage is a poor choice. She also doesn't recommend annuities or life insurance.

so how else do you tap the equity in your home?.....if you have read from the beginning than you know I don't have to do it......bob

If an elderly home owner is struggling due to not enough money coming in, it could make sense for him/her to get a reverse mortgage, but there are pitfalls that one needs to be careful of, such as the duty to maintain the value of the house (upkeep, repair) as it was when the reverse mortgage began, and you must actually live in the home (not in a nursing home for any long stretch). There are clauses in the contracts that allow the banks to steal the home and kick you out should these terms be violated.

banks steal the home....you are smarter than that thr.....bob

Good post. Specifics are nice. We always hear that RM are bad, but rarely are reasons given



Harsh, but another good post. I'd hate the thought of an elderly parent doing without in order to pass and inheritance to me. I'd rather they spend their home equity to improve their quality of life.

It seems to me, the biggest objection to the RM comes from those who are pissed because someone spent their inheritance.

I would say your wife is 100% right, assuming on life insurance she is referring to things like whole life (junk) and not term.

If one needs a reverse mortgage they are likely spending more than they should based on their nest egg or have prematurely run out of money. It’s about that simple IMO.

seems to be.....bob

I say do it Bob, you are smart enough not to agree to a bad contract. Go elephant hunting!!!!

This.

most cases I would agree....bob

that's the spirit!...its this kind of thinking that has made America great!.....the next hunt elephant hunt is funded already...this will make it easier to do more.

still on the fence......bob

You do what you want.


If that entails giving your kids everything and them throwing your broke ass in the shìttiest nursing home they can find...so be it.

Do more research Bob, and who knows maybe it’s still the right choice for you. But if I could fund my trips elsewhere it may prove to be a cheaper alternative.

Some of this stuff is hard when we don’t know how long we will live, knowing that financial planning would be a breeze.

I rest my case. Take a nap you may feel better when you wake up.

In certain narrow circumstances it can be an amazing deal. I was in class and the teaching attorney asked how many would do a RM, not a hand went up. He went on to explain how GIVEN THE CURRENT RULES AT THAT MOMENT.

You could sell a paid off house for 333K Buy your wildest dream house of 1M 1/3 down cash.

Live in your dream house until death while being paid for doing it.

After explaining the details he said now about your heirs... tell them to get a job. He was a great teacher and your quintessential cold blooded attorney. But he sure made a boring class fun. He's dade now, hope his heirs took that job

will do...thanks for yours and everybody's comments...bob

Reverse mortgages are a win-win for the banks, and a trap for the homeowners. If you're still paying on the house with a substantial balance on it, even if it has quite a bit of equity in it, they don't even want to talk to you. If it's paid off or close to it, they would make a loan on what they consider it is worth, estimate your remaining life span and set monthly payments to you accordingly. In the meantime, you are still responsible for the taxes, home insurance, Interest on the loan, and all maintenance. Let something lapse, don't keep up the place to their way of thinking. They evict you. If they find out you are not living in the place, they evict you. Unless you have a wife and are legally married to leave it to and she wants to stay in the place. It's a losing proposition.

Phil

What is it about you mid west guys?


Sheesh.

I understand this. I’m a numbers type guy, and was trying to give you another option to consider. To me, a reverse mortgage removes too many variables from my control. There are just too many variables in the future you aren’t able to accurately predict.

How long will you live? How will your health be? Will you value the same things ten years from now you value today?

Again, I’m a numbers oriented guy. I’d love to travel to Africa, but I just can’t justify the cost in my mind. I’m likely missing out on something great, but that’s just how I’m wired. I’d prefer to die with money lleft rather than become broke and homeless with five or tens years left.

She is a mutual funds salesperson. Lots more to planning.

I haven't read this whole thread but have had direct experience with one when my Father in Law passed away.
The first the family knew about the reverse mortgage was the phone call a day or two after he passed away. They wanted the deed and they wanted it then. With a little research we found out they had a loan to him for way less than the house was worth. We cleared out the house and put it on the market. It sold in short order and the loan was paid off. During this period there were daily harassing calls wanting to get the deed for the property.
At a very emotional time for most families you don't need some jerk harassing you about a reverse mortgage. It's bad enough to have to clean out your parents house in just a day or two.
Read the fine print, check out a loan from your bank, get some legal advice and don't listen to the smooth talking actors on TV. Keep in mind they are actors, getting paid for what they are saying.
One last thing, if you have family, let them know what you are planning. They may have anther solution. Even if they don't, they wont be blind sided when you die.

For the person/couple that has no heirs, or does not wish to leave anything, AND wants to stay put, AND doesn't care what happens to the house after THEY are gone.... A RM might be OK, IF it provides a monthly stipend for the rest of their lives....

bottom line, the RM Co. has done the math and knows when, or very nearly, you are going to croak.... you will only 'win' if you live longer than expected!

For the most part, I can't see where it ever passes the simple dollar ROI equation!

IMHO...

A reverse mortgage is like an annuity. There are very, VERY specific circumstances where they are not a "bad" idea, but the vast majority of the time they are a very bad idea.

To be completely honest, in reading through this thread it sounds like you have a bit of a chip on your shoulder about the whole thing and are seeking opinions that will reinforce what you already have decided to do. If you know that’s what you want to do, then I would say forge ahead and do it regardless of the opinion of others. You only live once.l and it sounds like you have your mind made up.

Based on your posts and responses to others it sounds like your say that you already have lots of money, own a ton of stuff that is all nice, new, and paid off, and you don’t ‘need’ to do this. You just *want* to do this as a way of finding activities that you may not otherwise be able to fund. As long as you read close and understand the full implications, I guess it’s for you.

I’d consider selling the house with a life estate provision. I’d not consider a reverse mortgage.

I concur with Hastings. Mine are hard working, responsible and conservative. My wife died. When I die, my kids will do quite well financially. And they know what’s coming their way.
Sorry if some of you have a poor relationship with your kids. That situation in some cases might be salvageable, if you try.

I agree with Hastings (kill me now) and dale06. My kids (who are all adults) are my motivation for pretty much everything I do nowadays. When I check out, I want to be able to leave them with as much (assets) as I possibly can.

Never understood them sounds like a bad deal

Yeah...kids still aren't entitled to anything.


So if you want to live a modest lifestyle so your kids can spend it all lavishly....go ahead.

I am sure they will remember you fondly when the auction comes and they finish hauling all your shìt to the dumps.

k1500 believe me no chip on my shoulder here.....I wouldn't say lots of money, but I made sure before I retired that everything was up to date and paid off . and yes it would be to fund more activates while we can still enjoy them...without digging into the money we have saved to live......if I don't do it we don't go on as many trips and die leaving it....if we do it then we don't leave as much...bob

that is a low blow and talking out your ass at the same time.....and the world is full of kids waiting for mom and pops to die so they can get their fair share......bob

and I think that is great......keep in mind some kids want their parents to live a full life and do want they want.....bob

If our good friends Magnum PI is endorsing it then it has to be good

Anything heavily advertised is bad.

I had an uncle who did one years ago before I'd even heard of them. His wife had died a few years earlier and there were no kids. It worked out pretty well for him. He took the money and when he died his family told the bank to come and get the house which was worth about 1/2 what they loaned him. Every situation is different.

Interesting. Is there a market for houses with life estate provisions?

If one is such a dumazz to not have a very clear trust in place this can be true I suppose. Most don't.

Probably better to get a HELOC than a RM but I haven't looked at it in depth.

Like I told my stepfather a few years before he died, spend everything you want to and don't worry about the kids. I wish he would have followed my advice because I ended up as executor and had to be in the middle of a war with my siblings.

Wasn't the will clear on who gets what?

We do exactly all we want except we don't have servants. Our interests are traveling, our friends, our cows and timber however humble, and most of all the kids and grand kids.

I wouldn't pay a nickel to shoot an elephant but if that floats your boat, go ahead. If I thought Africa was safe for a white woman my wife and I would go for a photo safari, but I have an elderly widow cousin that lives in South Africa and she tells me Zimbabwe would be safer.

Yeah, just out if curiosity, I dug into a RM on our place.

It's a sweet deal.......for the buyer!!

Honestly, I just checked one company

They purchase the home at "wholesale" prices. They are buying with the intention of selling.
You basically sign a contract that gives the buyer unlimited access, even if you DO live in it.
If the home is not maintained to their satisfaction, they can call in crews to restore the home up to their standard.....and charge you, i.e. reduced monthly payments.
You are expected to maintain home owners insurance and any applicable home/property taxes.

When YOU buy a home, the lender "expects" you to pay taxes, insurance, maintenance and payments.
When a RM business buys your home, you get their payment, but your still on the hook for home "costs"!

I would NOT do a reverse mortgage. If you haven't built a retirement fund, you'll probably just blow through whatever you get paid.

Selleck is getting paid. I like him, but not as a RM spokesperson.

hastings...go...my first trip was to zambia, I have never meet nicer people anywhere. and I mean anywhere......going to zimbabwe on the next one and my wife is coming with me....bob

happens all the time......a lot of people live their life for the kids...and that's great....bob

don't buy a car or anything then.....and certainly don't vote...bob

what is a life estate provision?...bob

My mother took out a reverse mortgage around 2002-2003 (house was paid off) and passed in 2017. If I remember correctly, she got around $425 a month for those 14 years. When she passed, she had received approx. $71K and the total owed was around $135K. Her house was sold for around $185K so my brother, sister and I split the remainder. Reverse mortgages are a useful tool that comes with high costs and interest. A realtor friend of mine who helped sell my mom's house said there are other options out there. You may want to talk to a financial advisor to see what else is available. Good luck.

It means you don't own your home, but do own the right to live in it for the remainder of your life, after which the remainderman gets control of it.

No. He didn't want to deal with confrontation. That's why he handed it off to me because I was the youngest, a CPA, and didn't take [bleep] from anyone, especially siblings and their spouses. It got ugly for a while but we all get along now.

Including medicare Part C.
Most heavily advert drugs are Last Ditch stuff.

:-)

that doesn't sound like the great rip off some make it out to be......bob

That sounds like you sell the house but a condition of the sale is that you have a lifetime lease to live there at no extra charge. But the devil would be in the ''fine print''. Read carefully. There will be conditions under which the lease would cancel.

who would buy a house under those conditions?...and you still have to pay taxes, ins etc from what I read...bob

It’s a very old mechanism to pass property on to a buyer - most often an heir.

It takes the asset out of your name, which may have consequences for tax purposes as well as qualification for certain government programs (I.e. nursing home care).

A common scenario is that pops kicks the bucket, and mom’s only asset is the house on the farm. A kid buys the farm and works it, and mom gets to live in the house for as long as she wants with enough funds to retain some independence and dignity.

From the buyer’s perspective, if the property is something a relative, neighbor, business associate, etc wants (I.e. is waiting for it to come on the market), then they can lock it up by buying it with a life estate provision.

As far as maintenance, taxes, etc, that is to be spelled out in the contract, but the seller / tenant no longer owns the property.

Jet’s pizza is pretty good. Life is short… 🫤

Says the guy who frequently uses his kids to pander for free stuff.

Investors, REIT, etc

[bleep] off. Jim's good people.

What did you send? Scopes or ammo?

I know a guy who bought a farm like this. It finally worked out well for him, but I believe the old lady lived to be 114.

As always... the details of any asset liquidation matter.

"The individual" and/or individual wealth (the ability to hold assets) if diminishing daily.

As time progresses... "the many" will relinquish their assets (by choice or force) to "the few"...

The shackles americans place upon their own wrists daily... leaves me dumbfounded.

*anyone notice how "the few" happens to rhyme with "the jew"?

"I'll Gladly Pay You Tuesday For A Hamburger Today"

J. Wellington Wimpy

I would have thought you are raising your kids differently.

Life estates.

Not a bad idea, really. But a real PITA to get rid of once the "lifer" expires.
Ask me!

One of the biggest inheritances you can give to your children is to not have a financial mess they need to sort out when you pass. Have your funeral plans made, finances in order, and let your passing be a positive experience not one filled with stress and dread.

And, don’t have a lot of crap. If your kids need to take a month to clean up and sort through your junk, you suck. And I see it all the time. Be down to the good stuff they can quickly divide up or sell.

An inheritance is as old as the world. A token 25k set aside for each child would be welcome.

[quote=Calvi One of the biggest inheritances you can give to your children is to not have a financial mess they need to sort out when you pass. Have your funeral plans made, finances in order, and let your passing be a positive experience not one filled with stress and dread.

And, don’t have a lot of crap. If your kids need to take a month to clean up and sort through your junk, you suck. And I see it all the time. Be down to the good stuff they can quickly divide up or sell.

An inheritance is as old as the world. A token 25k set aside for each child would be welcome.[/quote]
Well said when my wife's parents both passed away all I will say it was a disaster for my wife and her sisters depressing for them.

Selleck might be a cool guy but in the end he's an actor with 100x more in the bank than the average person. He'll never need an RM and has likely never looked into what he's selling. Someone writes the scripts and he plays the part and banks the money.

rock chuck.....did you not notice my lol....lol...bob

...anytime I see a no-longer-working actor selling something, it raises suspicion.
I guess they have to do something since "The Love Boat" isn't on anymore...

On a more serious note, a neighbor has one, and I'd like to figure out how to purchase it

Calvin this is why we are going through another down sizing this year.....the old saying...you don't own your stuff, it owns you.

I am looking forward to it....in the end they will sell everything and split it....bob

I’m asking?

I'm not a financial expert but after working part of my life to get everything paid for I have no desire to go back into debt. I think America is bleeding enough from too many unpaid bills.

an rm pays you...not the other way around.....bob

Yep, this part stopped a friend of mine from doing it, they can walk in any time and make YOU pay for any maintenance or even upgrade THEY deem necessary.

It’s not your house anymore.

I know. Someone has to pay it back after I'm gone though, I assume that's how they're set up. Somewhat like selling a life insurance policy?

Is your wife on board?

If you decide later you screwed up, can you write a check and get out of it?

How big a check?

If you are satisfied with the answers to these questions and the terms of the deal, go for it!

yes it would get sold just like the trucks, boats and split whatever cash is left.....bob

on board. Yes.... screwed up....only way in my mind is if we decided we wanted to leave the house free and clear...then it would get sold and split....its going to get sold by the kids no matter what. it comes down to if they get more or less.

this is our last move....pretty much stay until dead...every house I have owned has gone up in value....there will be something left....and if there isn't. Oh well we will be dead....they can split the rest....bob

I gotta say....this sounds pretty entitled.

I have always maintained my placed. That is not an issue . as far as upgrades being forced on you I haven't seen that, BUT doesn't mean its not true, depending on the contract.

a good lawyer and as much info as possible has to be part of the equation.....bob

Sounds like you have your ducks in a row. Have fun!

thank you Greg....I am definitely on the fence about this. I do like the feedback....bob

My wife’s folks took out an RM a couple years back. They were deep into their 70’s with health issues and had zero savings and zero retirement plans made. They had been living on SS and whatever they could pull in driving Uber and Lyft for several years leading up to that.

They still owed about 35k on their 400k home and that was absorbed into the RM. We offered to pay the stupid mortgage off and just let them live there until they couldn’t anymore, but they said they needed the income the RM would provide. So that’s what they did.

In their situation of absolutely no planning for retirement and dwindling opportunities for income, the RM was probably about as good an option as they could come up with.

They will leave their kids pretty much nothing but memories and a great example of what not to do financially. They, the parents, feel bad about that but the kids all have (are) doing pretty well for themselves and don’t need anything.

Fred Thompson used to pitch RM’s too. I think he’s ded now.

That's what RM's do....they kill people.

Exactly!

A reverse mortgage is like an ejection seat: the absolute last resort.

Anybody tell this to Tom Selleck?

My aunt outlived both her kids, her husband and her income. She took out a reverse mortgage on her home which was paid for and when she died her grandson told the bank come get it. It worked for her.

My neighbor’s wife died leaving him with lots of credit card debt and a mortgage on their home. We offered to pay off his mortgage and give him a life estate on the home. He refused and moved his son with some of his friends into the home. They were to pay the mortgage and let him live there. After while they wanted him to pay rent. They were stealing his groceries and eventually kicked him out. He ended up living in town in a run down trailer on $800 a month SS. Lived in the alley down the street from our store. He often told me how he screwed up. What could I say?

It's probably too late.

One other thing....if you die absolutely loaded....you did it wrong.

But what about the chillren???


Tell em to get a job.

My parents left me with nothing but memories. Dad, who cared nothing about money, still managed to put together a plan to provide for a disabled sibling of mine. His pension provided comfort for our mother until she died. Other siblings and I have done well on our own. I recall Dad saying: “Money is like horse manure. The best thing to do is spread it around so young things can grow.” He used his to support his family over the years. I’d say he set a pretty damn good example. YMMV.

No doubt. Anyone who has ever taken out an RM or has pitched them on Tv is destined to be ded.

We are all going to die if we live long enough.

A thought Bob-

You do a RM, you both are in your late 80’s and need nursing home/hospice care for 3 years, that cost will hypothetically run you $300k. If you had a house without an RM that would be the time to tap that equity. If you have an RM you may be screwed.

I truly fail to see where an RM makes sense for 98% of people, and you don’t seem like the 2%. Maybe you just need to adjust your budget to handle a safe withdrawal rate from your nest egg? Just my 2 cents.

Taking out a reverse mortgage is going into debt. All the inspection fees, origination fees, title search and insurance will put you several thousand in debt immediately. Why not try selling it to an individual or outfit that has rental property and get a contract to rent it for you and your wife. The rent could be set to a price not to be changed. The new owner then would be responsible for a blown off roof or whatever. If you decide to move or die the contract ends and you or your heirs still have what's left in your pocket.

A reverse mortgage is not your friend. It is something for desperate people. If you don't owe money you have all kinds of options.

Actually, no. The hypothetical couple with the paid off house would exhaust their other financial resources and then quality for Medicaid, which would pick up their medical and nursing costs. The couple with the RM would do the same. They’d get the care either way.

yes...bob

No, Medicaid wouldn’t likely pick up the cost of a place that you would choose, trust me it won’t. But you’d get into some care facility, but it wouldn’t be your first choice.

The facts are that an RM is an expensive bet to make given fees, costs and your inability to predict your death. I would bet on increased financial flexibility down the road with less variability.

I concur. Wholeheartedly. I have a beneficiary deed on my house, which I own outright, and it will automatically transfer to my adult children on my death. And they receive the house on a stepped-up basis ~ no capital gains taxes at all. None. And the probate court has no say-so at all. None. I’ve taken it completely out of the hands of the probate court. Phuuk the probate court. I have beneficiary deeds on all of my vehicles, which I own outright, and they will automatically transfer to my adult children on my death. And the probate court has no say-so at all. None. I’ve taken it completely out of the hands of the probate court. Phuuk the probate court. And I have ‘transfer on death’ set up for ALL of my financial assets ~ bank accounts and retirement accounts. And the probate court has no say-so at all. None. I’ve taken it completely out of the hands of the probate court. Phuuk the probate court. And my kids don’t have to pay taxes on ANY of it.

NONE of the things above are part of my ‘probate estate.’ The only thing in my probate estate is the schit that’s inside of my house (clothes, shoes, furniture, etc.). And that’s the ‘only’ schit that I mentioned in my will. Stuff that’s not part of your probate estate doesn’t need to be mentioned in your will, since the phuukin’ probate court has NO say-so about ANY of it; they don’t need to know about it.

And I did all of this myself. I did the research and set all of it up myself. No need for me to pay money to a ‘financial planner’ or an ‘estate attorney.’ Death shouldn’t be such a complicated mess in our country like it is, but the thievin’ bastards have things in place so they can continue to fleece a person’s estate even after they’re dead.

But there are ways to keep if from the organized criminals that our local, state, and federal governments are comprised of.

did you read the context of why I started this post?...this isn't about a last resort...its about a way of tapping into an asset .....if you know of a better way of doing it I am all ears....bob

I'm leaving my kids everything, the more the better. They're definitely going to have a lot of junk to sort through, but it'll all be paid for.

Need to talk to your elder care attorney of choice about your entire retirement plan. Every state has their own rules, and protection of a dwelling (a place to live) for the community spouse has to be considered. Or a planned option. I have seen some options with better results for folks outside the RM contract. Anyone can find themselves in a Medicaid application situation, each case is different. Spend down while protecting a spouse requires planning. Being able to afford the type of care necessary after a medical event can leave the other spouse quite unprotected and things have to be done correctly asap.
Medicaid will get involved in a RM settlement/sale if either party is an applicant. It is a pain in the backside. Firsthand experience.
If an RM is being considered due to a monthly financial need, Medicaid is in the very near future if long term care becomes a requirement.

We all may face that day if we live long enough. Get prepared!

In all seriousness... I want to be helpful here in discussion. I am not a practicing attorney in any state, nor am I a practicing CFA.

What is the purpose or need for the asset funds to be liquidated? Monthly expenses or "fun money?"

If needed for monthly expenses, then downsizing might be a better option. Sell the dwelling, simplify to lower expense housing.
Taxes can be the biggest driver of cost to keep a paid for dwelling.

are you planning on going into a nursing home or on hospice? my dad was bedridden for 15 years, I saw the decline, saw what it did to everybody around him, saw him deteriorate to where he could only communicate by typing on the computer.

the day I saw him before he died he was trying to "talk" to me, but it came out aaaaaaaaaa that's it. now the reason for this sad tale is...I will not go into a nursing home...I will not go through hospice, everyone is well aware I am going out on my terms.

my wife will have other options than that.....and let me tell you all he ever talked about was what he wished he would have done....bob

Interesting. I'd like to know more about the process. I'll look into this. You care to steer us in the right direction?

fun money...bob

I hope not but one never knows or can predict what kind of care you might need. Sorry, but that’s reality.

After following all of the responses and your feedback I am of the opinion that you want to spend more money than you can without doing an RM. I’m pretty sure you know the risks and associated costs, so I guess you should go for it. Like others and myself have clearly stated, it’s a risky and expensive bet you are willing to make, just make sure you fully understand all the fine print. It’s not the path many would take but you seem to be trying to talk yourself into it.

This business will get out of control. It will get out of control and we'll all be lucky to live through it.

Unfortunately there is no clearcut way to insure that happens. We are all simply one bad stroke away from serious disability.
Spouses are not always able to perform at home care. States do not always offer the best at home coverages. Waiting lists. Small reimbursements.
Sometimes the care facility is the only way. And that, my friend, will tap assets in a hurry.

exactly the opposite...trying to see both sides.....bob

Hahaha!


I give it a single ping. One ping only.

Thank you Mr. Vasilli.

I have lived a good life, pretty much on my terms have done a lot of things more than most...not as much as some....the day I cant take care of myself, is the day I tap out....I will wipe my own ass thank you....thanks for everybody's input...bob

I forgot to say the same, anyone who says “they aren’t going into a facility” is being incredibly naive!!! Many never have a choice and I can give about 50 diffeent examples where you have no choice.

And if this happens you’ll be damn happy you have a paid for house that isn’t leveraged.

great show....bob

Oh no.
Worse than I thought! Ha! Just kidding around with you!
Please seek consultation and counsel before making any moves. Medicaid lookback at application is a tedious process. So is getting denied for any reason and having to appeal.
Watch all large expenditures and "gifting" or anything that can be construed as such.
Personally, I'd just sell and downsize when the market is prime to do so. Use the equity cash wisely. Protection for my spouse is my focus.
I'm different, and more conservative in my approach. If I can't afford to do it, I simply pass.

They take the house regardless.

anybody that plans on going into a facility ......you do see how they get treated in those places ,don't you? have at it.....bob

There are legal steps around that, Jim.

That look back is a bitch though.

Have you met anyone in a long term care facility who "planned" for being there?

You plan for the possibility, not the inevitability.


The fee you would spend to discuss your own case with an attorney is an investment in you and your spouse's future well being.

I will type slower: I don’t wish for myself or others to need to go to one of these places, but sometimes you don’t have a choice. That’s my point!

And Jim you also miss the point, I’m trying to illustrate that having more liquidity and free cash gives you more options down the road versus overspending your budget. It’s called living within your means. 😄

This is correct. A stroke can change everything. Shucks, just bust a hip and you may need temporary placement. Life is messy sometimes. We love to hang onto the illusion of control. It doesn’t always play out like we plan.

FWIW, in our area, nursing home patients get pretty much the same care regardless of their insurance. An exception is that some extra $ can mean a private room. VERY wealthy people,of course, have many other options. That’s always been the case.

IMO, the best way to ensure good care in a nursing facility is to have involved family visit frequently and keep track of things.

All the more reason to get things set up right asap, using a reputable elder care attorney who will advise you of the process and options available.
Each case is different with different needs and goals.

I live in Colorado. So I did all of the research that pertained specifically to myself and my adult children according to Colorado law. All of the information that you need is available online, and pretty much any question that you have about any of it, can also be answered online. Another thing I learned about during the course of all of this is federal MedicAid Estate Recovery Laws. I had no idea about this prior to my research. Anyway, you can even find templates for beneficiary deeds and wills online, and then customize them for your specific needs and wants, and once you get them notarized, they’re just as valid as if they were done by an attorney. It’s really not difficult at all. All of the information that you need is easily accessible. You’ve just gotta invest the time and effort that’s required.

It’s worth it.

Good job Antlers!!!!!

"Ounce of prevention, pound of cure!"

Are these RM offered at local banks or are they only offered through certain places? I tend to trust my local bank more than a stranger, maybe a fault on my part.

I think it means save the last round in your 30-30.

How do you guys feels about student loan forgiveness?


Much different from making taxpayers pay for your nursing home stay through some fancy accounting work?

The Rm might be what Bob wants to do ok! The transfer on death varies from state to state. I also have, all real estate set and recorded at the courthouse, to transfer title on death. No probate keep the state out of affairs if possible!

I have a nice place in the country with a shop that I plan to use even more once I'm retired. As such, I don't care to downsize in retirement, or at least not until I'm not able to mess around with things in my shop/property. Similar to the OP, we will have a significant pile of equity in our homestead to pass on or find a way to access.

I agree with those who say find a way to to do what you want to do while you can. Unless your kids have a disability, don't take earning what they want away from them. Otherwise their life becomes the biggest participation trophy of all.

Depending on how a persons retirement is set up, an easier way to access a portion of the equity might be a HELOC or cash out refinance. I haven't carefully examined a RM, so don't know the fees associated with it, but it's worth a comparative analysis to see which route ultimately costs less in fees and interest. Even if it's not the best financial move, those on a structured payment system like an anuity/pension plan that have a higher monthly payout might find it advantageous to pay monthly for a large sum up front with which to pay for a few dreams.

We are already set up properly.

Believe me....I have plenty of experience in the field.


Spent all my life watching farms and ranches go through the succession and nursing home process.

Jim I cant answer that ...I started this thread because of post in another thread.....I just wanted to see others opinions on it....and if anybody has any real life experience with it.....bob

Jim, you mean a nursing home stay for a lifetime taxpayer, after all their assets are expended? I feel it is deserved.

A graduate with student loans has a lifetime ahead of them to repay, as well as pay their share of taxes for their future support needs.

An RM is just a way to spend assets as they wish. With conditions. And the subsequent loss of that asset. And a potential loss of future needs support.

Excellent. Good job!

Trust route?

Absolutely deserved.


Seen some shady shìt go down trying to hide assets.

I suspect mostly the result of poor or no planning.


But sometimes it was just greed.

You could call it that!


As in my folks absolutely trust me.

yes...apparently some don't get ...I will wipe my own ass....bob

Very true, Jim. The algorithms in the systems Medicaid offices in each state are pretty intense and that application process does invoke stress to those who try to game it. As it should.
Legal spend down is intended to make quality of life something livable, not so heirs and others can live like the Kennedy family.

good post....you can do a heloc or cash out refinance.....but when you don't earn an income I don't see how that would work.

good luck whenever you decide to retire!.....bob

What about someone like myself without a wife or children, and no body in particular to leave things to ?

Legal spend down?

then find someone to leave it to....it is very selfish to only think of yourself.....just kidding....get all the info, contact a lawyer and make an informed decision based on what works for you in your situation...bob

I see. I've gotten fairly distrusting with most financial institutions over the years. For good reason. You seem savvy enough to avoid the bad places to do business with if you go this route. For me that would be a top priority.

Oh, I get the sentiment. Most everyone hopes to care for themself until the end. Sometimes things happen that make that impossible. Are you willing to use that last round on your wife to keep her out of the nursing home?

My wife and I have in place a plan much like Antlers. We chose to involve an atty, as we wanted to set up a trust for one of heirs.

All assets will transfer without any probate. This includes all bank accounts and other financial items.

If you are older, looking for extra money and don’t want to sell your house and go rent one somewhere else, why not just reverse mortgage your house and rent it from the buyer at a reasonable rate without having to relocate?

It sounds like it can work for those who don’t have any relatives to pass it on to. Nothing is a perfect solution for everyone..

Setup a trust for something you feel strongly about. Had a friend set up a trust to help students, the stipulation, agricultural students.. How he accomplished this I'm not sure. I guarantee multiple lawyers were involved. His lifes work is going to something he felt strongly about!

Seems like it never dawned on some of the folks posting here that it's possible to A) do well financially; B) live comfortably; C) teach your kids the value of hard work; and, D) still leave something nice to help out your kids when you're gone ALL AT THE SAME TIME.

All the whining about kids just wasting what you leave them or throwing you in the trailer park nursing home sounds like people who made bad decisions projecting on others....

Well, I read through a bunch of this - a few down right goofy, ignorant comments, but plenty of really thoughtful responses. I especially liked Calvin's comments.

There's no way I can tell you what to do Bob. I know what I'd do though. I'd liquidate all the dumb sh*t I've accumulated (personally I don't have much - not a "collector," and not into boats or motor sports, etc.), sell the house, downsize, and put the earnings that are left into a "fun" account (ie, 10 year bonds, etc., whatever), not touch the principal, and go play/travel with the earnings. I'd do my best to make sure my kids ended up with all or most of the principal.

Aside, if your kids are "entitled" the fault is entirely your own. You didn't raise them right. My kids aren't, nor will they be waiting for my death - they'll lose their friend. "A good man leaves an inheritance to his children's children."

Many thanks! This is something I’ll look into. As I get older I’m starting to see a need for better tax planning as well.

The more I learn, the more I discover I don’t know.

That's dumb.

How is it "dumb" Jim?

Did you inherit your farm Jim?

No. I bought it.
And I hope they spend every cent.

They held paper, right?

Did you pay full market value, or get a kids discount?

Full value.


Inheritance is dumb and the result of poor planning.

Get your stuff sorted while you are living and live a little.


You guys must have a guilty conscience or something.

So your parents hold paper... how is that not helping you? There's no way you were going to the bank to get a loan on a full market price transaction. Isn't that part of what an inheritance is? Are you entitled?

What paper?

You know what paper.

My parents have no assets related to the farm.


What paper?

I’m proud to raise self sufficient kids that I treasure far more than any material goods.

To each their own but I’d rather be able to enjoy my retirement when I get there and be able to leave something to my kids rather than blow it on garbage that I really don’t need. Maybe in return they’ll be able to leave a little extra for their kids.

It’s that whole white man concept of generational wealth I guess.

More rubbish...

So you paid cash for the farm, or got a loan? You don't pay your parents a monthly fee while they remain the owners until you've paid the agreed price?

Yup

If you want to leave stuff for your kids...more power to you.

You are a damn fool if you think it's a painless process for the kids.


But then hey..your ass is gone and you don't have to see what inheritance can do to a family.



I just don't agree with basing your decisions on living and life on how much your kids might get out of your estate.


Maybe it's different for you guys with town jobs or something...I guess money and things is the "legacy".

You realize there are people that exist in this world outside your little circle?


Hahaha!

They don't own anything.

So your parents "hold paper"(retain ownership) on the farm, and you pay them monthly. Got it. Yup, you've never been helped by your parents in life, you're a MAGA self made man lol...

You're more FOS than the proverbial Christmas Goose...

Again....they don't own anything...and they are still living.


You want to talk about "help" or inheritance?

Help isn't part of inheritance? You wouldn't have got it without being their kid... blowhard.

What’s it matter if Jim got a loan or paid cash? They got their money upon sale unless they owner financed it for him.

He won't say. I doubt he went to the bank, my guess is "owner financing" (ie, his parents are holding paper or it's in a trust)... he makes bold statements about kids getting an inheritance as entitled, yet that's exactly what's put him in his position as a farmer... capiche?

So you get red assed and want to talk about "help"...instead of inheritance.


That's fine....and exactly they point I have been making.

Use your wealth while you are alive and can do some good with it.


Help your kids out.


Or....just go ahead and throw a big pot of cash at their feet upon your demise so that the lawyers can make money and your kids fight over the last nickel.

Inheritance very rarely works out the way you intended.....unless you only have one kid.

No paper there Colombo.

OK, so by your own definition, you're entitled. Got it.

So spell it out... tell us about the trust. Tell us the details. You've gotten mighty quiet there MAGA man...

Boy..you did get red assed!


Hahaha!

The big artful dodge... I can see through your BS

Hahahaha!


No paper.

I see that is hard to understand.


That's not my problem.

Yep. Inheritance ruins things a lot of times

Hahaha!


Your sweet.

I am sure the lawyers will be handsomely compensated.

Why not get it done while you are alive? Buy your kid an industrial property or a housing unit.


Of course...have a plan in place if something terrible happens.

Pretty simple


Help is help before death


Inheritance is help after death


Who fugking cares if Brother Jim already got his one way or the other? It’s actually smart to get it settled before the parents or grandparents pass. Think taxes

Again, completely avoiding the truth.

Tell us all again how your parents didn't help you...

You're FOS

That’s the best way to see to it that your wishes are actually done. If you are dead, it’s up to lawyers and greedy heirs

So it's a Trust... I'd love to see the details. The self made MAGA man.

Listen Linda. I never said I never had any help.


You don't want to talk about inheritance anymore?

And yours.

No "A Trust".

Indeed.


Maybe it's different in the big scary world....but I have yet to see any sizeable inheritance not start a fight of some kind.

Saying "inheritance" upon death is stupid is literally saying "help your kids while you're alive."

The neighbors to the south had or have their place in a Trust.


I don't know how they work or what goes into one.

There is really no difference between gifting your kid's major money/property/businesses before death than waiting to do it after death.

An inheritance (or help/gift) is a blessing from a parent to a child.

We set up a trust.

No, an inheritance is certainly not an absolute blessing. Anyone saying this is not experienced in such matters,

The last line is spot on.

The difference is when it occurs so we can ensure that the help is directed properly and doesn't result in chaos for those left behind.

George

Jim I am probably wrong...but I am taking that as they put their trust in you.......I knew this would be a good topic....bob

There couldn't be a bigger difference.

Haha!

Yes. That's what they did.

It has been a fun topic. Even if I appear to be on the other side of things.

Good way to put it.

Taxes.

You can buy the property now, but will want to wait for your death for the transfer of ownership.

Avoids gift taxes, you can depreciate the property, and the kid gets the property at the basis value at your death, rather than what it was when you bought it.

Clawback from the government is for any gifts within a set amount of time. Anything prior is untouchable.

Done correctly, one can, over time, give cash and land value (trust or LLC makes land/property much easier) to their family and avoid having medical costs, especially long term care costs for, say, a memory care unit, wipe out a life's savings.

I've paid enough in taxes over my life to be motivated to use all legal means to limit what goes to .gov instead of my family.

Being able to influence how that inheritance is used while still around is icing on the cake.

Edit: last year, you could gift up to 17k tax free to family members. This year it's 18k. If a "family" property is in an LLC or trust, that value, as a percentage of property ownership, can be gifted yearly. So, 51k of value each year could go to three kids equally last year. 34k to two kids etc...

Plan ahead, do it early, and everyone's life is much simpler with less fighting after you die. Bonus if you don't ring up medical debt until you've gifted your value long enough ago that it's all past the clawback period.

Failing to plan is planning to fail

There are tons of ways to help. Contribute to Roth IRAS, set up 529s for grand kids, etc. No one said help/inheritance had to be a brief case of cash for kids to fight over. And no one said you can't live it up AND have enough left over to leave something nice for your kids or grand kids.

Splitting the help vs. inheritance hair is nauseating when the original argument was that kids shouldn't get anything because they're going to dump your ass in the nursing home anyway. That line of reasoning sure evolved as the tide shifted...

What's nauseating is watching you try to comprehend what you read.

The annual exclusion $18k per spouse, so a married couple can give $36k to an individual per year tax free. That's $72k from one couple to another married couple.
No taxes. No reporting. Some specific rules apply to minor grandchildren and pass through. Always best to consult with a tax attorney on those details.
But these payments will show up on banking statements. That matters later on in this scenerio.

The lifetime estate and gift tax exemption is now $13.61 million per individual for 2024 gifts and deaths. This increase means that a married couple can shield a total of $27.22 million without having to pay any federal estate or gift tax. This is separate from the annual exclusion. Must be reported and tracked along with annual IRS tax reporting. Shows up on banking statements as well.

Medicaid only "claws back" when they find violations of their requirements after benefits have been paid out. Usually in an audit performed after a Medicaid recipient passes. You agree to those requirements at the time of application, under potential penalty of law.

The thorough review of the Medicaid application before benefits are granted (while in Medicaid pending status) usually prevents a claw back from occurring.

The 5 year look back is detailed and precise. ALL payments, deposits or withdrawals of $ 5K and up are to be declared and revealed. Receipts are requested. Detailed banking statements must be provided for 60 months prior to the date of application. All income statements, assets, sales of assets, pensions, investments, stock accounts etc...
There is a maximum cash on hand to even apply. My state is $1600. Can not be exceeded in any month benefits are paid out.
The account is subject to continual review to prove benefits eligibility.

If there exists anything found during the application for eligibility investigation, it will result in a penalty by a delay in granting benefits, a specific dollar amount allowed per month for a certain number of months until it equals the penalty.

IRS allowances are not Medicaid allowances.

Want to see a "spend down" on steroids? Go into long term care.

You’re a smart man .

I don’t see the upside to it looks like bad news

Most of us are just waiting to see if you post a thread with photos of your boys titled "Need an inheritance for them"... I'm sure some of the same old buffoons will chip in per usual.

Hahaha!

Boy you sure have learned a lot in a couple months.


Don't let me stop you...tell us some more of what you don't know.

Happens all the time around here.


Old guy hangs on to everything cause he wants to die first and not make any tough decisions.


Then the old bugger goes into the nursing home for 4 years and the "inheritance" gets sold.


Bye bye ranch.

Unfortunately, it happens everywhere.
Planning is a necessary evil. It is never too late.
Pro's and con's of a reverse mortgage are a part of the planning process. Anyone considering one should seek professional counsel.

The old smart ranchers would say that equal isn't fair and fair isn't equal.

At least when it comes to ag land succession.


I still think a RM could be a useful tool.

Who would you go see? A CPA or an attorney?

Both?

An attorney who specializes in probate and elder care law. CPA should be already on board for business management and tax filing.

And you might have to see more than one...

Bob mt. I also wonder about those "reverse mortgages" that I see advertised.
My main "wonder" (concern) is apparently the house goes over to the lending institution when "you" pass away?
Our home has been paid off for decades now and I look forward to leaving it to the VarmintKids and VarmintGrandKids.
I guess if a person had NO heirs they might as well get some cash from their home and live it up while the livin is good?
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Who gets the Varmint Abode, DickVarmit?

Stop acting obtuse, Brother Jim! Keep up the Seagrams diet.

Median length stay in a nursing home for individuals with above average income, is 3 months.

I’m shocked based on personal experience.

They must shove some half dead folks into nursing homes

Bingo. We re-created our trust when I retired in 2015 due to far more net worth than back then and adding the health care bit. We opted for an evergreen option that is updated annually over a three year period. The first year update is all about our health care instruction, the second year is all about the financials (new tax law, etc.) and the third is a reissued trust. My son's met with us and our attorney and fully understand the workings of the trust and are more than pleased, particularly with the health care instruction that leaves them not having to make any decision as we age and die. We pay less than what we pay for our pool boy for this service. Not difficult but very necessary.

Bingo Bytches!

That's what they's for.

Must be . I’d never force my next of kin into one of those schidt holes

Hopin ya never even hafta consider it.

People get nursing homes conflated with retirement homes.

When a patient has reached a stage where there is no treatment that will reverse the person's condition, there's no reason for them to be in a hospital.

When a person reaches that stage, there isn't a lot of life remaining for that person.

Nursing homes provide the same nursing the patient would get in the hospital, but in a less expensive setting.

The possibility of a lengthy NH stay is overstated.

I have seen it go on a lot longer.

We didn't need much for legal counsel.

No, I won’t have to. It’s been settled.

Me too! A lot lot longer

And I've seen a cow with 6 legs.

Living longer = more money for the 'medical' profession. I have no idea why people want to live until there are no more parts left.

I'll walk off into the woods and end it before I'd destroy my family financially.

Just go lay down with the live stock dogs , Brother . Brother Jim will bring country ham at 0500.

I get it, having no family makes it easier for you.

You are good at being wrong. You’ll fit in just fine .

Most farmers are welfare rats and receive subsidies. A lot of farmers around here even took COVID relief money. Inheritance from the taxpayers.

Grandpa went over 3 years and grandma went nearly 4.

I do like country ham.

No one else in the house does though.

3 and 4 years seems more realistic.

My wife is planning on taking a CNA class so to be better prepared to tend to my folks if need be.

I want some over easy eggs and country ham. Now Sycamore and Greyghost will wail and scream some babies in Africa aren’t getting any country ham.

Don’t let any lads from the next town over get wind of her, Brother Jim.

Good deal. I assume her folks are in NZ with proper socialized (don't mean it in a bad way) care?

You cold blooded Yankee

Her dad is still living.


I just asked her and she said the system is kind of like over here.


You pay until you can't type of thing. She said her dad will end up paying for all of his own care.



I had assumed that it would have covered by the socialized health care system. I was wrong!

Mail order bride? You devil

I have always told my wife if I got sick....like real sick...no way I would run us broke. I will tap out on my terms.

that is one thing in this life that you can control......bob

how has it been settled?...bob

This guy thinks they're a good idea.

Same here. That just means there's more left overs.

Their normally good for the lenders if the home occupants pass within a few years. I have 38 acres that surrounds a five acre tract with a 6,000 ft home with a reverse on it. The old couple took out a reverse on the home two years after it was built. After thirty years the husband passed the wife in her 90,s went into a nursing home. The pay off to the lender is near $800,000. House likely worth $300,00+ as needs a lot of work. Apparently it worked for them due to length of time they were able to draw monthly on the loan.

The house has sit empty for eighteen months and the government loan agency will not discuss the sale of it with me. They pay a caretaker to check on it and mow the lawn. Our Government as usual doing its poorest. GW

A bit of an aside here. I was at my wife's parent' house about a year ago. Her mother said "I want to talk to you about something and have a question." She said a few more things and then asked if I'd rather them leave us money or would I rather they spend the money on vacations that would sometimes include us. Without hesitation I told them to burn through it however they want to. I had roughly the same conversation with my mother over a decade ago.

You are 100% correct. This is the time for you and your wife.

you said the right thing....the idea that you have to leave something is wrong.....bob

There is absolutely nothing wrong with leaving a legacy. Either in works, ideas, morals or money: I believe all of us should shuffle off this mortal coil leaving something to make it better.

Personally, the difference between having enough to live well in retirement and use it all up and living well in retirement and leaving more than I started with is a comparatively small amount of money.

Let me put some numbers to that.

Let’s say you start retirement with $500,000 in your retirement account, and let’s assume you invest in a diverse stock portfolio, like a total stock market index fund. Let’s also assume you and your spouse draw 25K a year in social security.

If we draw 80% of the net (of inflation) returns off the portfolio a year, that’s an average of roughly 7%, or $35,000.
If we do that, our principal will never be depleted, even accounting for inflation, and we can live on the returns forever. And leave a financial legacy. To kids, grandkids, the local dog shelter, a scholarship fund for a gunsmithing school; whatever you think will leave the world a better place.

If we put that same $500K in a joint life annuity type arrangement (I refuse to call it an investment, because it isn’t) at age 67, you get……..roughly $35,000 a year until you die, and you leave nothing. Oh, but that $35K you get out of that “safe” annuity…. is NOT indexed to inflation, so when you’re 87, it’ll go at most half as far as it does today.

Either way, you have $60K of disposable income per year.