I’m Currently a bolt action guy for Predator hunting, but I’ve called in enough doubles and triples where the benefits of an AR are obvious. I’d bet a mortgage payment I’ll never shoot past 250 yards, it’s just to thick here. The gun will be a tripod gun when standing, and bipod when sitting. This would be my first build/assembly, so I have questions..

—what’s an MOA accurate upper to build around? I was looking at PSA/Primary Arms, and top budget being White Oak price point ~$650 or so

—I like the idea of a side charger on a hunting rig, but I’m not set on it. Give me your thoughts here

—aside from the trigger, is a lower really just a block of metal to bolt everything else too? Meaning, can I use an $85 PSA lower and still get full potential out of a “good” upper?

—I’d prefer a complete upper and complete lower, the only thing I could see myself swapping is a trigger if necessary. I don’t want a project, I want a reliable tool.. This isn’t a weapon that will see thousands of rounds a year in training, it’s a hunting rig that might see 100 rounds a year at most.

—recommend upper/lower manufacturers that you are happy with.

I’m trying to find the balance point of budget and “precision “

For a second I thought this post was from 2005...


For 250yds?

THIS WILL PROBABLY WORK

Too easy to find an MOA AR now.

Back when I first needed an AR for coyotes, I bought a CMMG Bargain Bin AR... Cheap at the time.

Killed a thousand coyotes with that thing.

Just pick a brand and caliber and go to work!

Lowers are mounting points, not stressed.
As long as the holes are right they don't matter much.
Especially if you use a drop in cartridge trigger.



MOA is the tricky part.
Ain't gonna happen with Ball. But you shouldn't be using that.
3 shots, 5, 10, how many for an average?


How about, "What AR will reliably kill a coyote at 250 to 300 yards?"


Pretty much any.


PSA makes guns that work, will hit coyotes beyond your requirements, and are reasonably priced. They do cut certain corners that are part of building
the most reliable, durable versions of the platform. That is why you can buy one for $500 with an enhanced trigger. Instead of $1500.



The enhanced trigger may or may not suit you.
Mine are OK. Replacing them wouldn't hurt, but isn't needed.


Watch out for weight.
What can be a light, handy gun often becomes a chunky pig.

It’ll be proper ammo, not ball

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa...trigger-black-no-magazine-516444743.html

Or this for $80 less.. I have both of them. Super easy to order. There is a drop-down menu and just pick your gun shop.

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa...rigger-black-no-magazine-5165447963.html

This in MK 1.9 would work

https://www.whiteoakarmament.com/3-gun-uppers.html

You might get more responses in the AR forum

I’ve had good luck with PSA barrels, The Trick is finding ammo it likes.

I was eyeing these up…

https://www.whiteoakarmament.com/predator-uppers-1-8-and-1-12-twist-223-5-56.html

BCA

I like this

https://www.bearcreekarsenal.com/22...-rifle-sch-upper-nrail-spiral-flash.html

I think predator and varmint uppers are too heavy for walking around coyote gun. I like those for shooting gophers from the truck.

A well-balanced accurate 16 inch mid gas upper that shoots MOA Is a better fit.

IIRC this one of several with a lightweight 16 inch barrel. No problem on longer shots. 77 grain TMK

https://www.bearcreekarsenal.com/22...-1-8-twist-15-mlok-sch-forged-rifle.html

18" is my go to predator gun.

Mixed reviews on BCA… drop your experiences with BCA as a side conversation

I had one issue with an upper, and they made it right.

I concur...

Cheap and effective...

Down the road you can upgrade to a WO (or whatever) if the PSA disappoints...

IMHO... the PSA will shoot just fine.

How’s the heavier bullets workout for ya? I use 55gr Frontier HP Match bullets at the moment, I’ve been happy, but never tried anything else. Minimal fur damage is my goal while still putting them on their ass quick

Budget?

If you want to spend White Oak money, you are barking up the right tree.
Just watch the weight.
If the 18" fit my weight, I'd give it a cap for the threads.
Keep it short. Or a deflector if you want.


Probably assemble the lower.
Assuming you don't mind spending a bit.
Good stock and trigger of your choice.


However,



As before.

The PSA will un-alive coyotes at 250yds.
But if you doubt it, every miss will be blamed on it. (Even though the truth...😁)
You gotta trust the equipment.

PSA is great for the money and service is good if you have issues. I assembled one with an 18” barrel on sale by Ballistic Advantage I think. Not match weight. But it’s still heavy. You don’t need heavy 24” for dogs. It took some fiddling with torque to get the best accuracy. Rock River national match triggers are excellent and cheap.

I’ve got a 20” version of that WOA upper on a cheaply PSA lower with a Geissselle SSAE trigger in it. It shoots itty bitty groups. And it’s heavy.

I like that a lot, just wish it was threaded, any idea on weight?

The AR-15 concept and design is based on the creation of the 223 from the 222mag for the AR. The original cartridge design was a 55 grain bullet at 3,250 fps to be effective at 300 meters. That is it in a nutshell.

Been an armorer since 1964, 101st Airborne Division, when our M-14s were turned in for XM-16E1s. Twist was a bit off and guys broke the crap out of them, 4-7 per jump, etc, etc. I wrote the reports to the Pentagon on performance, not all glowing, unless you figure in the heated words. Today the ARs are decades improved.

You just buy a 223 AR from one of the better known houses on sale. Sugges a 16" with a medium to heavy 1-8 twist barrel, flat top, chrome molly will do, you wear it out get a better barrel. A flat top upper with a 2 x 7 or better variable scope. A 3# trigger should do fine. The Sierra 53 SMKs with H-335 or 844 or 2023, no N anything is needed or any wazoo, super bullet either.

Hogs and yotes ain't bullet proof.

So cheap! Worth a try. My first PSA upper called Dissipatior in stainless was crazy accurate with crap Wolf steel. I got another one for some dumb reason, cheap maybe?, but it wasn't so good at all. They happily took it back. Bought a blem lower. There wasn't a thing blemished on it. Hard to beat PSA. John at White Oak has been a competitive shooter and does good work. His uppers didn't improve my skills or the guy I sold it too either. Where I live 250 yards is a long shot at animals besides.

I've had both light barrels and heavy barrels. The heavies tend to be track drivers, but they are unnecessarily heavy.
Good barrels aren't hard to come by these days even in light profiles and you can get a better handling predator rifle without a weight and length penalty.
The WO upper you linked has a couple of things that would be problematic for me on a predator rifle. To me, it is heavier than necessary, threading is 5/8-24 (usually used on larger caliber suppressors) has a .875 gas block and depending on length, a slow twist if your going to shoot heavy for caliber bullets which a lot of coyote shooters do.
Personally I would trade barrel length and weight for a suppressor even while shooting supersonic loads. That may or may not work for you though.

Good info regarding weight, I’d hope to keep bare rifle 9 pounds or less. Not a huge deal though, a good sling will make it feel lighter walking in. And it’ll be sitting on a tripod anyway

more than likely I’ll be between 45 and 62gr bullets…

The Ability to suppress is mandatory though

As to trigger upgrades, I like my Hyperfire DM. Shot a lot of very high end triggers in ARs. This one, to me, is 98% of what a Geissele is but costs $100. Breaks like an ice cycle and has a short, distinct reset. Milspec design, so easy to clean.

Just my $0.02.

I appreciate the high value recommendation

I built mine back around ‘15. Keep saying I’m going to lighten it up, just haven’t yet. Shoots well. Geisselle (likely misspelled) SD-E. Black Hole 16” barrel. Magpul ACS stock. 6x SWFA.
Right now it puts 53 v maxes into itty bitty groups. Suppressor and all she clocks in around 11 pounds, so AR’s can get heavy without meaning to.

If forced to buy off the rack, I’d probably just Ruger MPR and upgrade the trigger if it needed it.

I’d find a PSA 18” SS rifle-gassed upper. They tend to shoot well for cheap.

I bring up the "easy to clean" part because ARs " Carbon up" quick. Nothing necessarily wrong with the drop in boxes but I like to be able to maintain the trigger.

I've used ARs more than the average bear and have seen about everything that can go wrong happen. I value rugged simplicity wherever I can get it.

PSA 18" SS rifle gas, trigger less kit, drop in CMC 2.5lb competition trigger and you're there.

That's some good groceries right there.

Have had a Sig piston 16" carbine for a while now. It's the only piston AR I have, and it runs much cleaner than my others.

It also has a gas adjustment for suppressed shooting. Don't get a magazine of powder fouled ammo.

I've got a WOA 18" Fluted SPR barrel on a build I did; 18" SPR barrel, Geiselle SD-E Trigger, stripped Aero upper & lower, Magpul UBR stock. I'm very happy with the accuracy.



5 shots at 100 with TAC and 77 OTMs



3 shots at 307 yds (stopped when the bolt head broke off)



But, for a calling rifle I prefer a 16" carbine with a VX6HD 1-6X on it. Most of our calling shots are 30-150yds. I like the lighter rifle for hiking between multiple stands.

Slick! I’ll keep my eyes peeled for PSA deals. And thank you for killing the strays

This is what my last complete upper purchase from PSA was, 18” SS rifle gassed. Shoots way better than its price would indicate! My DD shoots good also but no better. PSA will be the first place I look in the future. PS. .223 Wylde chamber.

I’m getting great feedback keep it coming.

Pistons run WAY cleaner for sure. Can't count how many partial mags I've dropped (top off when you get the chance!) that look like they came out of a campfire when running a can.

https://simpsonltd.com/rock-river-arms-lar-15-c61873/

I had one of these. Stupid accurate. Wilson barrels I believe. Great trigger too. Alot of gun for the money.

Scott

I looked at rock rivers, nice guns but that one isn’t threaded

Can you please help me understand that statement a bit better?

I think he means that he needs a threaded barrel.

Sure does

That’s odd. I shot high power with more experienced guys who never cleaned their rifles. Dirty burning powder maybe?

Just stop.

You are embarrassing yourself.

Understand...

I thought you were saying you needed to shoot a 5.56 AR-15 quietly...

Several years back, I had a spare stripped lower on hand. I'm not a big 5.56/.223 fan, so was shopping around for a barrel/caliber combo that "tweaked my interest".
Sooo......
A shoppin' I did go!
Wandering around a favored parts site, I found a BCA, heavy, spiral fluted .223 Wylde barrel for $58! 😳!
The sale ended at midnight Saturday. Monday morning, I called and asked if I could still get the "sale deal"?
"SURE!"
From there, I built my first heavy barrel AR. It's crazy accurate!
My upper and lower are just plain Jane old "Anderson Rifle Works" in Hebron, KY.
If you don't mind spending a little extra to insure success, I'd drop a bit more on glass and trigger.
My little rifle is really nice, but with that heavy barrel, it IS a bit hefty!
.....but DAMN, does it ever shoot!

Thats my find too. I think I've dealt with probably close to 15 uppers now. Mostly 223. Some 6.5 ppc. Can't recall if there were others.

Since I reload I have no comments about factory ammo issues.

I have yet to see one or own one that would not shoot MOA at 100 for 3/5 shots consistently

Accuracy is in the barrel. IF you are after the best, then have the best. barrel done by someone like white oak and you are done.

The rest is just fluff including the trigger.

I would never have a cartridge drop in trigger though. Just buy a match 2 stage.. RRA were ok. Last I've had and been good are La Rue MBT and I generally thing all La Rue stuff is over priced for what you get... but the triggers just flat work.

Aero 15 build, 1 in 8 twist.
Likes 50gr Fiocchi BT

Usable trigger, MBT, a little heavy though.

Are you talking about buying an upper receiver without barrel and then buying a quality barrel to add to it?

I’m not rost so won’t answer for him. But I’ll say that’s it yes. What’s more it’s fun. Have a vice on hand, a mag block, and a torque wrench. Pull the bolt and take it apart while you’re at it to see what makes it work so you might understand what happened if one day it doesn’t. Take a look at the trigger while you have to lower receiver open for the same reason. Outside of the recoil spring assembly in the buttstock you pretty much have the operation covered.

Seems straight forward enough. 👍

FWIW always used a Brownells upper receiver deal w two pins, in a vice, when putting on a bbl.

I would be more concerned with an adjustable gas block, sine most ar barrels are 1/2x28. Or a flow through can instead of a adjustable gas block

A couple months ago I paid $399 shipped, no tax for this Radical at KYGUNCO. Had an ok mil spec type trigger, not quite what I wanted so I did put a Trigger Tech 3 lb single stage in.
Shoots MOA with 60gr Vmax Black Hills ammo.

Just got home to weigh it. 9# 15 oz. That’s with an empty 10 round p-mag, Burris FF-2 3-9, Butler Creek flip-UPS, heavy Warne base/ring setup, and the Ace stock.

What optic is that?

Sorry, was off the grid on a remote ice fishing trip.

It is an AGM TS35-384 Rattler with a remote auxiliary battery pack.

I put this one together from various parts I had in drawers and in boxes. Tennessee Arms polymer lower and a 16" DelTon mid length light weight barrel. I did buy a Rise Armament 3.5 lb trigger and put in it as well. It's definitely a Frankenstein AR.

What are the opinions about the side charging uppers, I think the op asked earlier. I am curious too. I guess you would need a tool to get the bolt out but sure would be nice with some scope arrangements.

I have several side charge uppers from Gibbz.

They are the cat's ass, and no special tools are needed.

https://www.gibbzarms.com/product-category/g4-uppers-receivers/

Radical arms

The BCA requires a 5/32” hex key to remove the bolt handle. The threaded plug where a regular charging handle would go comes out with your fingers.

I bought a 20” heavy SS Wilde Gen 2, rifle-length upper. Under 100 rounds but is shooting nicely and the inside is still clean. Needs a better trigger than the very heavy one tripping it now, which is a challenge. $211.

The side charging makes scope mounting simple and flexible.

I changed my upper to one with the bolt assist for quiet chambering after I get out of the vehicle.

Not entirely true. Polymer lowers(with the exceptions of CavArms, GWACS, KE Arms monolithics) will break where the receiver extension attaches.