The one that gives you the money shot 1 st pull of the trigger. Having to shoot once will be bad enough without engaging in spray and pray in a congregation. Jesus can't save anyone who can't save themselves..mb
I tote my Taurus (the BULL) G2 in 9mm cos there’s plenty of Bull that goes on at any church I’ve ever attended. It’s cheap and pretty reliable. Sometimes the Glock 22 in 40 cal. it it’s larger and hits the arms of my wheelchair. OK if I’m in a chair with no arms or wider than a wheelchair. Small church of old people but we’re prepared.
I do have an Armscor (Rock Island)1911 in 45 that I carry in cold weather. A coat or sweater helps concealment. I feel safe in the arms (pun intended)of Jesus with it!
Should we have unwanted or crazy visitors who want to harm us; they’re the ones who’ll cry HOLY, HOLY, HOLY from all the bullet holes that they shall receive. Sometimes you need more than spiritual armor for protection. Jesus also said sell your cloak and buy a weapon.
I tote my Taurus (the BULL) G2 in 9mm cos there’s plenty of Bull that goes on at any church I’ve ever attended. It’s cheap and pretty reliable. Sometimes the Glock 22 in 40 cal. it it’s larger and hits the arms of my wheelchair. OK if I’m in a chair with no arms or wider than a wheelchair. Small church of old people but we’re prepared.
I do have an Armscor (Rock Island)1911 in 45 that I carry in cold weather. A coat or sweater helps concealment. I feel safe in the arms (pun intended)of Jesus with it!
Should we have unwanted or crazy visitors who want to harm us; they’re the ones who’ll cry HOLY, HOLY, HOLY from all the bullet holes that they shall receive. Sometimes you need more than spiritual armor for protection. Jessi’s also said your cloak and buy a weapon.
I can see him bringing it to Missy’s service just as pictured. Revolver and ammo still in the box, sitting next to him on the pew. Boxed and almost loaded for a fight.
5 dead resulted from 81 yr old man in congregation opening fire and totally missing Hispanic suspect.
86 yr old great grandmother and 2 of her grandchildren pronounced dead on scene. Female pastor of church and her partner died in ambulance.
81 yr old shooter in custody, says he doesn't know why he missed suspect.
Witness,s on scene said he just started shooting his gun all over the place and nowhere near suspect. Witness,s described old man as nice but definitely had dementia for years and everyone would just humor him he was fine..
Okay, gents, here is the ugly truth. The pic does not lie!
As I said earlier, 15 shots each offhand at 15 yards. 15-20 seconds shooting time total for each gun.
You all know I'm a whiner and here it is, just when I got to shooting it started getting windy. Nothing terrible but 15-20 mph and I could really notice it with the red dot.
That said if I removed the worst shot from each group they all went around 5" for the remaining 14 shots. Except for the P226, I know the trigger pull is way different than the striker fired pistols and I still shot it like chit, it was around 7.5" for 14 but I also shot it last and it was getting windier by the minute.
Based on this one test, I'd say that you shot the HK & the Sig 320 a little better, but I'd probably run the test again.
I love the Sig Legion series & have the 229 Legion version as one of my regular carry guns, the other being a Beretta 92 Compact & sometimes a Commander sized 1911, but I like the mag capacity of the 9's.
The Legion grips are cut just right to fit my hand & the Legion 3D sights (if that's what you have) are really good, so of what you have, I'd take the 320, HK next, which is also a very good piece with a trigger better than most Glocks.
The 226 is a little too big for comfortable, everyday AIWB, which is what I usually use, but not sure what your church attire might be.
Funny story, I was at a social gathering last year where a new female Methodist minister was talking about how their Church committee had been discussing "allowing" members to carry at Church. Our friend who still attends that Church pointed out that best practice is to engage the shooter immediately because the police are not going to suddenly appear to do that for you.
I held back the urge to tell the group that a shooter trying to attack a Baptist Church nowadays would fair no better than they would say attacking the Sherriff's office.
Okay, gents, here is the ugly truth. The pic does not lie!
As I said earlier, 15 shots each offhand at 15 yards. 15-20 seconds shooting time total for each gun.
You all know I'm a whiner and here it is, just when I got to shooting it started getting windy. Nothing terrible but 15-20 mph and I could really notice it with the red dot.
That said if I removed the worst shot from each group they all went around 5" for the remaining 14 shots. Except for the P226, I know the trigger pull is way different than the striker fired pistols and I still shot it like chit, it was around 7.5" for 14 but I also shot it last and it was getting windier by the minute.
Upper left, HK VP9
Upper right, Glock 19X
Middle, SA Echelon
Lower left, P320
Lower right, P226
I wouldn’t feel too bad about that. Most people are fast to talk and short to show. I like handgun shooting, albeit I don’t shoot as much as I used to. Hoping to remedy that tomorrow with the warm front pushing in.
Watched several guys in military who were absolutely terrible with a pistol. One who missed the whole damn silhouette @ 3meters(part of the USMC Qual). We ended up putting a laser on his beretta and he shakes worse than Michael j fox. Worked with him and worked with him and got him to pass, however he was still The worst damn shot I’d ever seen. Still in service last I known.
Based on this one test, I'd say that you shot the HK & the Sig 320 a little better, but I'd probably run the test again.
I love the Sig Legion series & have the 229 Legion version as one of my regular carry guns, the other being a Beretta 92 Compact & sometimes a Commander sized 1911, but I like the mag capacity of the 9's.
The Legion grips are cut just right to fit my hand & the Legion 3D sights (if that's what you have) are really good, so of what you have, I'd take the 320, HK next, which is also a very good piece with a trigger better than most Glocks.
The 226 is a little too big for comfortable, everyday AIWB, which is what I usually use, but not sure what your church attire might be.
Good Luck...........all nice guns.
MM
The Legions and the HK fit my hand the best but I need an instructor to tell me how to shoot that P226! The P320 is by far the most fun and I ordered an SRO to stick on that one.
And depending on the mail, this coming week I want to mount a dot on the P226 but need a filler plate.
determine your favorite, dump the others and buy a duplicate and a pallet of ammo and a shot timer. Only deliberate practice and several thousand reps will begin to make you competent.
Go on You Tube and watch Travis Haley Deliberate Practice, it is a useful system to add to your training regimen.
Practice is more fun when you set goals and track your improvement.
I was thinking the same thing earlier about how 'dumb' it is to try and get accuracy results when jumping from gun to gun and in a hurry in the wind....lol
Still fun though.
I have been stocking up on practice ammo and hope to get a little better here over the next few months. Mostly be practicing with the 19X and Echelon.
5 dead resulted from 81 yr old man in congregation opening fire and totally missing Hispanic suspect.
86 yr old great grandmother and 2 of her grandchildren pronounced dead on scene. Female pastor of church and her partner died in ambulance.
81 yr old shooter in custody, says he doesn't know why he missed suspect.
Witness,s on scene said he just started shooting his gun all over the place and nowhere near suspect. Witness,s described old man as nice but definitely had dementia for years and everyone would just humor him he was fine..
More than a few guys at our church carry. I've been carrying my 43x with a 15 round shield arms mag. Can shoot it as well as my 17 and 19 and it's a lot more comfortable to appendix carry.
5 dead resulted from 81 yr old man in congregation opening fire and totally missing Hispanic suspect.
86 yr old great grandmother and 2 of her grandchildren pronounced dead on scene. Female pastor of church and her partner died in ambulance.
81 yr old shooter in custody, says he doesn't know why he missed suspect.
Witness,s on scene said he just started shooting his gun all over the place and nowhere near suspect. Witness,s described old man as nice but definitely had dementia for years and everyone would just humor him he was fine..
Link?
I do believe that was perfectly placed satire on Wabigoon a'la Slumlord....lol
Your accuracy is good Sam! You seem more accurate with the P320. I carry a Glock 43 with a spare when I’m teaching kids second service. When I’m acting as security 2 services I either carry my P365XL with a 15 round spare, or my Gen 5 G19 with a 17 round spare. The G43 and the P365 are loaded with 147 grain HST. The G19 is loaded with Underwood 124 grain +P+ Gold Dot ammo. Also carry some type of knife.
I was thinking the same thing earlier about how 'dumb' it is to try and get accuracy results when jumping from gun to gun and in a hurry in the wind....lol
Still fun though.
I have been stocking up on practice ammo and hope to get a little better here over the next few months. Mostly be practicing with the 19X and Echelon.
You are doing alright, even being self taught.
If you were to take some instruction from someone who actually knows how to shoot a handgun well, and learned how to improve your handgun shooting, you'd be surprised at how much better you will be with whatever handgun you pick up.
When shooting a couple of different types of competition, I used to practice about 1000 rounds a week. I have my favorites as far as handguns go though, and tend to carry, shoot and enjoy them more than those others.
SamO, self taught is what you will probably stay with considering your location and work schedule so develop a plan and set goals. The fundamentals are pretty standard and always applied w/ the 4 rules. Start w/ a perfect grip every time as you will never get to improve it once the action kicks off. Choosing holsters and concealment clothing will be determined by what allows a perfect firing grip every time. Consistency is born of repetition.
Hint: My issue gun for 12 years was a Sig 226 and we shot about 500 rds/week to a very strict standard. It would be difficult to find a more difficult pistol to master...it was very reliable on a diet of 147 gr. Gold Dots.
I was thinking the same thing earlier about how 'dumb' it is to try and get accuracy results when jumping from gun to gun and in a hurry in the wind....lol
Still fun though.
I have been stocking up on practice ammo and hope to get a little better here over the next few months. Mostly be practicing with the 19X and Echelon.
A couple if the best pieces of advice that I got when I started competitive pistol shooting was to focus on the front sight & make it sharp & let the target blur, & squeeeeeeze.
Lots of dry firing helps as well, do it when sitting around in the evening.
I carry my S&W 2.0 full size 4.25" with an Armalaser green dot trigger guard laser. I carry Win 115gr Silvertips and a spare magazine. I sit at the welcome desk in the narthex during church service. I paced off the distance from the welcome desk to the front door and zeroed my sights and laser to that distance. My everyday carry is a SIG P365.
I’ve been carrying an Sig P365 XMacro today. 95% of the time it’s either that or a Glock 19X with an optic cut.
I/ve found the Sig to be softer recoil than my Glock 19. I've have both the XL and The Macro Tac Ops but for me I am more accurate with the standard P365
Shoot is almost as good as a full size pistola.
I've got old man's butt and a full size 1911 drags my pants down, plus the Sig has a higher magazine capacity. Even carrying with an extended mag is easier to conceal that a full size auto.
our dear Lord is not against some of us man or ladies to carry in a church or any other place we are kinda the protectors of our flock . my wife thinks i am kinda crazy always carrying a small handgun ,all i said to her is i hope i never have to use it .
our dear Lord is not against some of us man or ladies to carry in a church or any other place we are kinda the protectors of our flock . my wife thinks i am kinda crazy always carrying a small handgun ,all i said to her is i hope i never have to use it .
The Parable of the Wise and Foolish Virgins Matthew 25 NKJV
25 “Then the kingdom of heaven shall be likened to ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. 2 Now five of them were wise, and five were foolish. 3 Those who were foolish took their lamps and took no oil with them, 4 but the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. 5 But while the bridegroom was delayed, they all slumbered and slept.
6 “And at midnight a cry was heard: ‘Behold, the bridegroom [a]is coming; go out to meet him!’ 7 Then all those virgins arose and trimmed their lamps. 8 And the foolish said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.’ 9 But the wise answered, saying, ‘No, lest there should not be enough for us and you; but go rather to those who sell, and buy for yourselves.’ 10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding; and the door was shut.
11 “Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open to us!’ 12 But he answered and said, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, I do not know you.’
13 “Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour [b]in which the Son of Man is coming.
If you need it and don't have it, whose fault is that.
I endeavor to be sure I have what I might need at any given time.
I’ve been carrying an Sig P365 XMacro today. 95% of the time it’s either that or a Glock 19X with an optic cut.
I/ve found the Sig to be softer recoil than my Glock 19. I've have both the XL and The Macro Tac Ops but for me I am more accurate with the standard P365
Shoot is almost as good as a full size pistola.
I've got old man's butt and a full size 1911 drags my pants down, plus the Sig has a higher magazine capacity. Even carrying with an extended mag is easier to conceal that a full size auto.
Ya!
GWB
The OP didn't have a 365 on his list as he probably doesn't have one................so it really doesn't matter how well you shoot one..............or don't.
I’ve been carrying an Sig P365 XMacro today. 95% of the time it’s either that or a Glock 19X with an optic cut.
I/ve found the Sig to be softer recoil than my Glock 19. I've have both the XL and The Macro Tac Ops but for me I am more accurate with the standard P365
Shoot is almost as good as a full size pistola.
I've got old man's butt and a full size 1911 drags my pants down, plus the Sig has a higher magazine capacity. Even carrying with an extended mag is easier to conceal that a full size auto.
Ya!
GWB
The OP didn't have a 365 on his list as he probably doesn't have one................so it really doesn't matter how well you shoot one..............or don't.
Okay, gents, here is the ugly truth. The pic does not lie!
As I said earlier, 15 shots each offhand at 15 yards. 15-20 seconds shooting time total for each gun.
You all know I'm a whiner and here it is, just when I got to shooting it started getting windy. Nothing terrible but 15-20 mph and I could really notice it with the red dot.
That said if I removed the worst shot from each group they all went around 5" for the remaining 14 shots. Except for the P226, I know the trigger pull is way different than the striker fired pistols and I still shot it like chit, it was around 7.5" for 14 but I also shot it last and it was getting windier by the minute.
Upper left, HK VP9
Upper right, Glock 19X
Middle, SA Echelon
Lower left, P320
Lower right, P226
Hey sheriff.....
Howz about filling out a pledge card for this church you're dying to shoot up........and post us a sweet pic of that
Well, if I went to church and had to carry a 9MM, it probably would be my S&W 6906. A bit fatter than a 1911 but also a bit lighter. I prefer the 2911 though and .45 ACP. In fact, when my wife was still alive I did go to church with her and did carry the Colt Combat Commander which I shot reasonably well. The pastor gave me permission to carry and a few weeks later revoked the permission. We never went back. Went to another church that didn't allow carrying so I just had an S&W M60 .36 Spl. in my pocket. I sure felt naked without that Colt Commander. The M60 made me feel a little better. PJ
I am part of the Church Security Team. I have been carrying a Glock 37 Gen 3 for several years. It has a Holosun HE507C-GR-X2 "Vulcan Reticle" Optical Sight. The G37 is a Glock 17 size handgun chambered in 45GAP. The Holosun 507C has a Green Chevron Reticle. Doing my research I believe it is the best Optical Sight for the application. That is why I went with it. I carry IWB using a Caldwell Gunleather Custom Leather holster specially made for the G37 with the Optical Sight. I also have a Double Mag Pouch on my left side, and a couple spare magazines in my vest pockets. Note: the G37 Magazines only hold 10 rounds. That brings my ammunition count up to 51 rounds. OR One round less than a fully loaded Glock 17 with Two Spare 17 round Magazines.
I have recently purchased a Glock 17 Gen 5. I will start working on it in the near future, getting the Optical Sight Cut. Purchasing the Holosun 507C Sight for it. Additional Magazines, etc. I am not a 9mm fan, however I plan to give the G17.5 a chance to shine.
I couldn't imagine shooting in hectic conditions with 99% percent innocent people in the background.
I HOPE our mental and physical training matches eyes with muscles and when its right the gun goes bang all on its own like its supposed to. Others around. Pick the right ammo. Not a Lehigh max penetrator. FWIW mentally I will take the risk and if I screw up and innocents die they were possible victims anyway. What bothers me though is the legal part that LEO dont' really worry about that legally. But I am supposed to.
The bottom line, train the best you can. Pray the issue never comes. And if it does that you don't have to deal with it using an almost worthless handgun, that you can access your rifle.
rost495; Top of the morning my old friend, I hope you're all well whether you're still in your winter digs or you've migrated north for the spring already.
While I'm cognizant that Sam began this thread with tongue firmly planted in cheek AND that as a Canuck I cannot speak from personal experience about anything handgun/defensive carry related, I'd offer some thoughts for those who might find it useful.
During the course of my life as it pertains to church involvement, for about a decade I was a leader in the Ushers and Greeters and as such I developed some safety protocols for the congregation.
Many older church buildings are not set up with proper fire exits even, which makes orderly evacuation in any emergency complicated. Combine that with a usually elderly thus mobility impaired group of people as well as visitors who are untrained/new to everything can be an uphill struggle to say the least.
Statistically most churches on both sides of the medicine line are more likely to have a medical emergency where an Automated External Defibrillator will save some lives. Hopefully it goes without saying that like a firearm, having an AED without proper training in it's use is less than optimum.
Our church didn't have a stocked First Aid Kit before some of the work and time was put in developing the protocols and procedures.
Each Sunday someone needs to be the one on duty whose will dial 911 to get medical assistance coming should the need arise. It's amazing how many times everyone believes someone else has already made the call.
The pastoral staff need to buy into whatever programs are developed. Part of the buy in is if not having "drills" at very least mentioning it often enough that some in the congregation will act appropriately during an emergency.
Training people to look for potential threats isn't always possible, as some of the folks who are attending the service, especially those who want to greet and welcome others, are not remotely wired to be "sheep dogs" in any way, shape or form. Realize those folks exist, accept them for what they are, try to find enough "Sheep Dog/Doubting Thomas" types to balance it out and go from there.
Looking back through the decades of church attendance, specifically dealing with different sorts of emergencies and disturbances, it was always better to have at least some sort of a plan rather than nothing.
That's a really broad overview of the subject and truly it's likely better to have a thread on it's own about that rather than take Sam's further into the rhubarb.
Holee cry holee freinds a question for the masses if you will.
I don't go to the church but if i was too what would I carry?
Sig P226, pretty sure it's what the 3 wise men were packin'.
There you have it, the contestants for the upcoming Sunday shoot-out.
I'm still feeding cow freinds but will get back to you with the results later today.
Sam; Good morning my old cyber friend, I hope calving season has been going okay and you're all well if not well rested.
Regarding the 3 wise men Sam, I've read a fair bit about them and while it's certainly speculation, it's feasible that part of the stir that the "We 3 Kings from Orient Are" would have caused was they'd be pretty much a small army.
The times on the Judean frontier then were quite rough, so travel for anyone not armed to the teeth between cities was tenuous at best. In order to survive what had to be at very least several month's trek across hostile country, they'd have their version of Delta Force/JTF2 crew along with them.
That helps explain the reaction from King Herod who had to be at least a tad concerned when this "visiting army" arrived unannounced in his back yard.
Pistol sights and old guy eyes are apparently in a constant state of flux Sam.
I'll also say that my 60 plus year old eyes do not work for distilled monkey spit with some indoor lighting.
The church we attend now and apparently most local restaurants have the same light spectrum Sam, such that I cannot read a menu to save my life without pulling out the pocket flashlight.
If'n I was planning on having to shoot in one of those lighting conditions, I'd think it prudent to see what sort of optical dot my eyes could actually see in said situation, you know?
Same goes for any eating establishment, etc. Sam, even if you're not going to start attending services anytime soon, you might wish to pack whilst taking the Mrs. out for an occasion, right?
Couldn't hurt to see the sights/dot if the need arises.
Speaking of low light, I see a few switched on folks here often either have a weapon mounted light or a decent pocket rocket light along with the packing piece.
Dwayne, great insight as usual from you. As a former school principal, I had to insist on rectifying some of the issues that you had, at our church. We have many diabetics and a woman to lose consciousness due to low blood sugar. It took a while to get 911 there. Everybody thought someone else had called. The directions to our church weren’t clear and the ambulance was delayed. Then they had trouble with our handicapped ramp, had to turn the gurney onto the ramp. We had to install a larger side door at ramp and widen the ramp. Luckily, our pastors wife is a nurse and several have first aid training. We also keep packets of honey, hard candy, and something from the drug store to boost low sugar under the pulpit in a first aid kit. Not much storage as our church was built in 1872 and the pews are homemade with square nails. The restrooms are in the fellowship hall/kitchen - a separate building behind the church. No one had ever devised a written safety/security/ emergency plan -ever; as long as the church had been in existence. We also had poor or no cell tower reception at our location and no landline. Usually a policy is developed after there is a problem.
The pastor gave me permission to carry and a few weeks later revoked the permission. PJ
Why even ask?
In some states, it is illegal and a felony to carry in a church without the pasters permission.
You are joking?!
Open the link and scroll down to the map. States in blue are where any particular church may either allow or ban concealed carry in their house of worship and on their property at their discretion as any private property owners might do. States in yellow allow concealed carry ONLY by permission of the church leadership. In the two states in red, New York and Mississippi, carrying in a church is illegal under any circumstances.
rost495; Top of the morning my old friend, I hope you're all well whether you're still in your winter digs or you've migrated north for the spring already.
While I'm cognizant that Sam began this thread with tongue firmly planted in cheek AND that as a Canuck I cannot speak from personal experience about anything handgun/defensive carry related, I'd offer some thoughts for those who might find it useful.
During the course of my life as it pertains to church involvement, for about a decade I was a leader in the Ushers and Greeters and as such I developed some safety protocols for the congregation.
Many older church buildings are not set up with proper fire exits even, which makes orderly evacuation in any emergency complicated. Combine that with a usually elderly thus mobility impaired group of people as well as visitors who are untrained/new to everything can be an uphill struggle to say the least.
Statistically most churches on both sides of the medicine line are more likely to have a medical emergency where an Automated External Defibrillator will save some lives. Hopefully it goes without saying that like a firearm, having an AED without proper training in it's use is less than optimum.
Our church didn't have a stocked First Aid Kit before some of the work and time was put in developing the protocols and procedures.
Each Sunday someone needs to be the one on duty whose will dial 911 to get medical assistance coming should the need arise. It's amazing how many times everyone believes someone else has already made the call.
The pastoral staff need to buy into whatever programs are developed. Part of the buy in is if not having "drills" at very least mentioning it often enough that some in the congregation will act appropriately during an emergency.
Training people to look for potential threats isn't always possible, as some of the folks who are attending the service, especially those who want to greet and welcome others, are not remotely wired to be "sheep dogs" in any way, shape or form. Realize those folks exist, accept them for what they are, try to find enough "Sheep Dog/Doubting Thomas" types to balance it out and go from there.
Looking back through the decades of church attendance, specifically dealing with different sorts of emergencies and disturbances, it was always better to have at least some sort of a plan rather than nothing.
That's a really broad overview of the subject and truly it's likely better to have a thread on it's own about that rather than take Sam's further into the rhubarb.
All the best to you all rost495.
Dwayne
Another month down south then bear starts soon.
These inane threads bother me but I digress..
Training is paramount in everything.
Having the right tools is paramount.
You hit the nail on the head here. And without tools and training you are at the mercy of whatever the outcome will be.
As you know plan A rarely works. Its generally at least into B or C before things work. Without a plan A its a total loss generally.
Piss poor planning leads to piss poor performance.
The idea of armed worship is so novel. Alarming really. If you’re Jewish you can get an empty sheriff’s car parked outside. That’ll stop’ em! I forgot my derringer cap gun had an accidental discharge one Sunday. Guess I was an early adopter.
The pastor gave me permission to carry and a few weeks later revoked the permission. PJ
Why even ask?
In some states, it is illegal and a felony to carry in a church without the pasters permission.
I do believe I would tell that pastor to go to hell, if he had an issue with somebody carrying
I agree... and disagree. The right people absolutely 100% should be packing. With that said, there are plenty of dumb azz Dirty Harry wannabes that I wouldn't want opening up in a church full of people. A pastor shouldn't have any problem with people getting shot as long as it is the right people being shot. Church security should be an organized effort by folks with the right mindset and training.
Many churches have a don’t ask don’t tell approach. That point of view emerged when I discussed armed and “trained” security with the business manager a +/-1000 member church I previously attended. His bugaboo? Liability (and insurance coverage) and it’s consequences for the church. That even included armed Deputy Sheriffs according to him. At the time I was the only security. I circulated the parking lot and children’s areas primarily and know of one definite group of suspicious characters that drove by me full of stares and didn’t even park. That one time alone rewarded me.
My discussion with the church staffer followed this event. He knew I was armed without me saying but never addressed the subject. Others in the church did too and appreciation was given on several occasions. Strangely no one else volunteered to help.
Death, taxes and Rost posting on a thread of which he has great disdain. Maybe I should start an inane NFL thread and REALLY ruffle the inspectors feathers!
lol
Thanks to all for playing along with this semi-serious thread. I really did go and shoot a few guns yesterday and posted the honest result. And if anything I hope a few Jesus warriors realize that maybe they shouldn't be packin' heat in the pews. Sort of a subtle hint if you will...
Dwayne, no calves yet but the weather is sure ready for 'em to start!
A. Pray on it brother as to which piece is right for you.
B. Sign up for the church choir....choir robes will maximize concealment opportunities.....may add ARs to the conversation....plus, choir members often times enjoy a higher ground to shoot from.
I like the Sig P320 Legion. I shoot one in competition and they work great for that. They are a bit on the hefty side though, depending on how you carry concealed. And they're fairly heavy, but low recoil and easy to shoot.
Teal, no real rhyme or reason to my collecting. Don't get me started thinking on another one....lol
No, I need to do as lvmiker stated and start focusing on practicing with one or two guns.
But it sure is fun to watch Honest Outlaw vids and daydream...
You need two of the same gun in shoulder holsters so you can skin them smokewagons and blast one in each hand. Some kind of long slide .45 would work, gold plated would be a plus and some sort of cool grips. Maybe a snake coming out of the eye of a skull over a big potleaf or playboy bunny.
Death, taxes and Rost posting on a thread of which he has great disdain. Maybe I should start an inane NFL thread and REALLY ruffle the inspectors feathers!
lol
Thanks to all for playing along with this semi-serious thread. I really did go and shoot a few guns yesterday and posted the honest result. And if anything I hope a few Jesus warriors realize that maybe they shouldn't be packin' heat in the pews. Sort of a subtle hint if you will...
Dwayne, no calves yet but the weather is sure ready for 'em to start!
Look out, Ricardo's loaded up with wadcutters!!!
LOL
Yup. You are right. Except I have not been an inspector for years now.
And I certainly come to the campfire only to laugh at the stupidity this place has come when I'm in winter mode. Don't have spare time to waste during the working months.
So you get a reprieve from me there.
I certainly was not aware that you were up to posting these stupid threads that have been showing up since the TN bunch came around.
As to packing, if you have clothes on I'd be thinking about it. Church is just another building. Simple as that.
Glad you went out and shot. We should do that weekly but alas I fail there lately the last years.
Okay man, thank you for bucking up and taking a little good-natured teasing in stride!
I will readily admit to occasionally stirring the campfire's pot every once in awhile with inane-isms. Blame it on the winter doldrums but that excuse is quickly fading away!
Back to reality, it would have to be a blood bath before I would have the confidence to shoot a killer in the head while he was holding a hostage close. I simply am not skilled enough to whip out the iron and take a precise aim in a hellish situation. Sure it would be easy to shoot if the bad guy is running around without bystanders in the background but that's a best case scenario. 15 yards really isn't that far and of course it only gets harder the further you shoot.
I need to practice more!
And to all you other heathens, thanks for the replies. Some good laughs!
Teal, no real rhyme or reason to my collecting. Don't get me started thinking on another one....lol
No, I need to do as lvmiker stated and start focusing on practicing with one or two guns.
But it sure is fun to watch Honest Outlaw vids and daydream...
You need two of the same gun in shoulder holsters so you can skin them smokewagons and blast one in each hand. Some kind of long slide .45 would work, gold plated would be a plus and some sort of cool grips. Maybe a snake coming out of the eye of a skull over a big potleaf or playboy bunny.
McKay Sagebrush said it best IMO when he advised "carry what you are willing to fight with". Sure changed my perspective. Makes total sense. Point being its not about you and your convenience or what feels good in your hand, or slips into your pocket neatly: its about getting the job done.
Death, taxes and Rost posting on a thread of which he has great disdain. Maybe I should start an inane NFL thread and REALLY ruffle the inspectors feathers!
lol
Thanks to all for playing along with this semi-serious thread. I really did go and shoot a few guns yesterday and posted the honest result. And if anything I hope a few Jesus warriors realize that maybe they shouldn't be packin' heat in the pews. Sort of a subtle hint if you will...
Dwayne, no calves yet but the weather is sure ready for 'em to start!
Look out, Ricardo's loaded up with wadcutters!!!
LOL
Yup. You are right. Except I have not been an inspector for years now.
And I certainly come to the campfire only to laugh at the stupidity this place has come when I'm in winter mode. Don't have spare time to waste during the working months.
So you get a reprieve from me there.
I certainly was not aware that you were up to posting these stupid threads that have been showing up since the TN bunch came around.
As to packing, if you have clothes on I'd be thinking about it. Church is just another building. Simple as that.
Glad you went out and shot. We should do that weekly but alas I fail there lately the last years.
Karen.
Oh for ph uck say Rost give it a break. Their absolutely nothing wrong with the thread. You always yearn for the good ol days of the campfire. We’ll point us in the direction of those supposed good times. I will see you in April safe travels.
We turn the other cheek friend. Violence is never the answer. Gods will and all.
Jesus said to turn the other cheek. He gave no further instruction on how to respond after that. If the Scripture does not address it, the ball is in your court.
Death, taxes and Rost posting on a thread of which he has great disdain. Maybe I should start an inane NFL thread and REALLY ruffle the inspectors feathers!
lol
Thanks to all for playing along with this semi-serious thread. I really did go and shoot a few guns yesterday and posted the honest result. And if anything I hope a few Jesus warriors realize that maybe they shouldn't be packin' heat in the pews. Sort of a subtle hint if you will...
Dwayne, no calves yet but the weather is sure ready for 'em to start!
Look out, Ricardo's loaded up with wadcutters!!!
LOL
Yup. You are right. Except I have not been an inspector for years now.
And I certainly come to the campfire only to laugh at the stupidity this place has come when I'm in winter mode. Don't have spare time to waste during the working months.
So you get a reprieve from me there.
I certainly was not aware that you were up to posting these stupid threads that have been showing up since the TN bunch came around.
As to packing, if you have clothes on I'd be thinking about it. Church is just another building. Simple as that.
Glad you went out and shot. We should do that weekly but alas I fail there lately the last years.
Karen.
Oh for ph uck say Rost give it a break. Their absolutely nothing wrong with the thread. You always yearn for the good ol days of the campfire. We’ll point us in the direction of those supposed good times. I will see you in April safe travels.
The good ole days when everyone kissed Miss Lynn’s pink boots.
As is customary on self defense/CCW threads the discussion centers on the tool. Very few choose to discuss the most essential priorities which are mindset, training and focused deliberate practice.
Dryfire is free and very effective, your phone can become your shot timer and video system. If you are unwilling to make the effort to become competent you missed the mindset train. Set up your camera and video your presentation and see how much wasted motion you can eliminate. Use your phone as a shot timer and and see how long it takes it takes you hit a 6" paper plate at 10 yards from concealment. If you can't do this cold, on demand in 1.5 seconds your are fooling yourself about your competence. Add in the essential elements of positive target ID and discrimination and you will begin to understand the attention to detail necessary to kill w/ ruthless efficiency.
Or you can proclaim yourself good enough and talk schidt on the CF.
We recently moved some cattle from a pasture that is only about a mile from our house and it's now very convenient to get some quick practice without spooking the stupid heifers. (maybe I already mentioned that)
Anyway I need to setup a better target system and get some steel plates hung. Just more cardboard today.
This was at 10-12 yards and 15 shots about as fast as I could 'aim' and shoot. Around 5 seconds?
I rarely shoot in 'turbo' mode but thought it was okay. Had the target and myself both been moving like a rabid pit bull I might not have even hit the box...
Good shooting, are you practicing from the holster/concealment? Shooting steel is a gas but watch out for frag at pistol range and wear your safety specs and a level 3 kevlar jock.
Mike, no, I am not practicing from concealment, this was just typical target practice.
I'm a little paranoid about close range steel, thinking 15 yards and out.
Paranoia is under rated. I use frangible ammo at <25 yards. Presentation and 1st shot time/accuracy w/ your EDC gun/method is a reality check. You are killing it [pun intended] keep up the good work, the world needs more good guys w/ guns.
The pastor gave me permission to carry and a few weeks later revoked the permission. PJ
Why even ask?
In some states, it is illegal and a felony to carry in a church without the pasters permission.
I do believe I would tell that pastor to go to hell, if he had an issue with somebody carrying
I agree... and disagree. The right people absolutely 100% should be packing. With that said, there are plenty of dumb azz Dirty Harry wannabes that I wouldn't want opening up in a church full of people. A pastor shouldn't have any problem with people getting shot as long as it is the right people being shot. Church security should be an organized effort by folks with the right mindset and training.
In other states you are required to carry in Church.
We turn the other cheek friend. Violence is never the answer. Gods will and all.
Jesus said to turn the other cheek. He gave no further instruction on how to respond after that. If the Scripture does not address it, the ball is in your court.
I am never not packing a 1911 45.
Actually he did. Luke 22:
Quote
35Then Jesus asked them, “When I sent you out without purse or bag or sandals, did you lack anything?”
“Nothing,” they answered.
36“Now, however,” He told them, “the one with a purse should take it, and likewise a bag; and the one without a sword should sell his cloak and buy one.
Jesus knew well the threat his believers would face. His statement directed his deciples (us) to be prepared to provide for themselves including self protection. He knew we would face deadly force and directed we be prepared to defend ourselves and by extension our acceptance of him; not suggested, directed. Turning the other cheek in facing criticism and resisting attacks on Christianity and our belief system are different situations altogether.
I do prefer an optic for church security work. More precise in a church full of people. My 64 year old eyes aren’t as good at 50+ feet as they used to be. This is my church security pistol. I carry a Glock 43 when I’m just attending church or as youth group leader.
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