In a way, I sorta hate to bring another discussion of Christian faith up, but i know that things are getting more and more messed up, and we believers all need to strengthen one another.

I ran across this video this evening, and I have had an article from American Thinker bookmarked for a couple weeks, I guess debating in my own mind whether or not it is true.
A Hard Look At Post Christian Times
It’s plain to see that as a people, we are actively removing every single thing that has made this nation great. I can’t hardly believe the changes this country has made to itself.
I literally thank God each and every day for giving me the blessing of being an American.
I think there still a heckuva lotta people who feel the same way. But very dang few under the age of around 45 or so.
I’m posting this in the hopes of hearing the thoughts of other believers, and silence from those who aren’t.
Reon

Not much of a correlation in my opinion.

It’s been going in that direction for quite some time; and the next generation will likely be living in a much more post-Christian America than we are now.

What kind of message do you think Christians need to focus on to connect with unchurched and de-churched people…? And how do you do it, effectively…?

"Entering"??? We entered there a hundred or more years ago.

Our constitution as interpreted by our highest court would indicate that government and religion must not collaborate. Good policy considering the different religions such as Islam, Hindu, Hebrew, 400 sects of Christianity, Satanism, Black Magic, various east Asian variants of Buddhism, Haitian Voodoo, LDS. And a bunch of agnostic or atheist to boot.

Might ought to leave religion in the private sector and only step in when they get ready to kill one another.

We certainly have a lot of work to do. For instance, millennials don’t attend church much and don’t bring their kids to church functions. Those that do attend don’t volunteer very much. Perhaps generation Z will make a better showing. From the looks of our current society, we appear to be slipping fast.

There are plenty of reasons why human society gets messed up. And it seems the more people there are, the higher the population, the more messed up it gets.

It would be like stepping in when an Indian couple get to beating on each other.


They turn on you.

Let em work it out.

I only wish I knew. I have been praying about this for some time now. The Part of me that thanks God for America refuses to accept that the US is obsolete. If I honestly thought that this nation as I love her, is beyond recovery, I would honestly put a gun under my chin and check out. Without America, I have no interest in living anywhere.
However, the Christian believer in me doesn’t want to do that because 1, I’m a little concerned that God may not appreciate my decision to check out early 2, I still have two kids and a nephew that I feel responsibility for accepting salvation.
On this area, I am often getting open hostility in response to my trying to get them to attend a church!
If what I think is happening is truly happening, we Christians are on borrowed time. I will predict that by 2028 election, the Antichrist will have already made his presence known. I’m told the church will be raptured by that point, but I don’t believe it.
Gods chosen, throughout history, have often had to withstand persecution as a way of refining the metal in their backbone. Shadrach and his 2 friends were tossed into the furnace, Daniel himself had to navigate the lion pit. That doesn’t worry me. My faith will carry me through, or I will not survive. I promise you, I will never renounce my faith in Christ, anymore than I will apologize for America. Both are a deep deep part of my core beliefs.
But if we are entering the tribulation period, my responsibility for my kids and my nephew are entirely even more important to me. There are no tears or regrets in heaven. I am sure of this. The friends and family who have not been saved, will be erased from our memory. That’s the only way I would know of keeping away regrets and tears over unsaved loved ones.
I will not accept that for my Son, My DIL, and my Nephew. So I have to figure out a way to get them to accept Christ in spite of themselves!
I know that Mom prayed me and The Old Man into salvation, I’m certain of this. But I’m not as good at prayer as Mom.
So I’m open to suggestions.
Reon

I totally tick off the "Prayer in school" crowd.

Try telling them they "really don't want that".

You get the funniest look, and a snotty "why".

"Because you picture it the way YOU want it to be. Led by a person YOU approve of,
done in a way that furthers YOUR beliefs. Our country has freedom of religion. The teacher might be a Catholic, Baptist, or Lutheran. Teaching a kid to cross themselves, or not to. Imagine the fuss that would cause.

If that's not enough, the teacher could also be Muslim, Buddhist, or even Satanic. And requiring prayer in church would give them the platform to openly push their religon."


Reon,
We entered a post Christian Era decades ago,
Taking prayer out of school and Roe happening so easily are clear signs
that Christianity isn't as important to as many people as in the past. The paragraph
above shows how Christian we were at one point. The problems I mention weren't a big deal because the vast majority were on the same page. And silenced any dissenters. Protestant vs Catholic was addressed by public schools, regional tendency, and civility.

Christian teachings are a big factor in societal success.
Unfortunately when the society starts being successful, people turn to their
jobs, and entertainment/recreation. And away from God.

Creating the same effect as,

Hard times make hard men,
Hard men create good times,
Good times create weak men
Weak men create hard times.

If you look at everything that's become policy in the last 16 years,
evil is the only logical reason for it.


There are two combined fight going on right now.
God and evil, and the fight for America. Maybe it isn't even two.
Evil is fighting hard, and winning.
Those on the side of God and America aren't even in the fight.
Many don't realize it's happening.

We started entering it in the 1960’s in my opinion. Everything has been downhill since then.

That's about the time frame that I was thinking also.

This

Errr, Inyin Love.

The pendulum has swung too far to the secular where subjectivity and relativism rule. Beyond that point is cruelty and death.

There is little doubt that Americans have forgetten God . Mostly cause many have EBT food cards now days. Church attendance is likely half per capita in 50 yrs. However, the Christian church is doing very well and expanding . Russia has gotten more christian . Iran and North Korea christian churches are expanding , along with China too. I was in Jamaica last week and was amazed at how many ,, although very small churches were there. People with bible verses on their T shirts were very common.. I even took a picture of a newspaper that said in bold words. " VICTORY FOR DEMOCRACY!" Then under it is written Christian advocacy groups welcome ban on gay pride flag at it's embassies. We dont see that anymore in America.. As for the atheists on the campfire here. I can tell you it is the Godless people that are ruining America. These people want the old America and the morals we had, but they think America will stay moral without God . You will not have both. I will guarantee you that.

The churches have gone woke to appease the phaaguts

John Adams once made the statement that the Constitution was written for a moral and religious people and is unfit to govern any other. We are seeing the results of moving away from a moral code based off God given principals and away from the Founding Documents. In my opinion a Constitutional Republic cannot survive without folks that are at least tolerant of God.

ihookem made this statement that is on target.
"As for the atheists on the campfire here. I can tell you it is the Godless people that are ruining America. These people want the old America and the morals we had, but they think America will stay moral without God . You will not have both. I will guarantee you that."

Some that might take offense to that have stated they will vote for Trump and I'm so glad they plan to but deep down and even unknowingly they are siding with the left. The left is communism at it's roots and one of the "rules" for establishing communism is to destroy religion.

I remember the aftermath of 9/11. Churches saw an increase of attendance. People were afraid and turning to God. Many were just plain hurting in the hearts over what took place and turned to God. That wore off and apathy set back in. I wish for those that will dislike what's being said about our nation and God and just wish those of us would just shut up that want to promote Godly living could be reached. I think as time passes we will see more effort into shutting anyone up that promotes God and how our nation needs Him.

pretty simple.....bob

one minute you are thinking of "putting a gun under your chin" then the next you are trying to get you son ,dil and nephew to turn to god and accept salvation. alrightey then, sounds normal and stable ....bob

High population and the internet. Recipe for disaster.

Don't worry, ladies now have only fans as a viable career option.

the internet is bringing the whole world down to a lower level ......at least it is doing it equally.....bob

The "churched" aren't following the moral code of Christianity....why would anyone else?

you also said you are getting hostile about them not attending church. didn't that line of thinking start the crusades?

let them make their own decisions , and step back and but out. take a break , you sound like a fanatic......bob

Church is a business
Church and state have often worked together for mutual benefit - not to the benefit of the flock
Churches have been joining the "woke" for a long time.

Christianity is being replaced with the religion of Liberalism/Marxism.

I’m posting this in the hopes of hearing the thoughts of other believers, and silence from those who aren’t.
Reon

Such intolerance of all opinions is the secret to your dilemma. Respectful dialogue in sincere debate, as you so plainly demonstrate herein, is no longer possible. In fact it is discouraged. Lines are drawn. Ignorance and hostility is the norm. Until you can acknowledge the worth of those you wish silenced, you are the reason America is failing.

reading his opening post and then the follow up posts seem to revel an unbalanced individual......extremism whether left or right is not healthy. that is what is killing America....bob

what we need is a watch list.....you know just in case someone may be thinking and they need to be watched.....we can sort it out later and all that....bob

2 Thessalonians 2:3
I think this falling away started some time ago and will continue to spiral downward until something catastrophic happens, bringing them back to God.

Entering ? We have been there for a long time!

No.

It's greed.

"Christians" kicked God out of our churches starting in the 1970's. Groups like the leaders of the "Moral Majority" movement started looking to the government to solve Christian problems. Keeping the church and government separate worked fine for nearly 200 years. That was intended to keep the government out of the churches. These people want the church and government to be the same. That is exactly what most early immigrants came to this country to get away from. Instead of making the government less corrupt they have made ALL of our churches corrupt and dishonest.

Instead of growing the church and teaching people about God they ran people off and devoted all their efforts to make sin illegal through government.

Attending church doesn't make you a Christian any more than sitting in your garage makes you a Ford F150. People are simply a bunch of screw-ups, including Christians, who are a work in progress.

Isaiah 5:20
King James Version
20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter

You’re dang right! I am a fanatic about my God, My family and my country! (couple more if you add guns and muscle cars!😀) I wish there were more fanatics like me. This country, the whole western world would be a heckuva lot better if there were!
I’m not suicidal, I will never give up on my country! I’m simply stating the facts as I see them.
But I realize that time is running out, and concern for one’s family is completely normal to almost everyone!
Respectful Dialogue is what I’m seeking. You usually get that from fellow Christians, , from non believers, not so much. Relies like the top of this one is unfortunately, the norm.
It’s a gut reaction I think. You’re maybe worried that you might be wrong, so you attack those who are assured. (I daresay that’s human nature)
I feel somewhat helpless when it comes to the salvation of those that I love. Especially when Im MET with hostility. (I do not get hostile with anyone until they themselves bring it on) They’re important to me, and if it’s fanatical to worry about them, like I said, I’ll proudly take that label!😀
As to “entering” as opposed to already living in, I’ll say this. Around here, in rural America, Pennsyltucky, it’s completely normal for church parking lots to be full on Sunday mornings. Thank God for that. Even non believers will admit that this nation was way better off when that was the rule rather than the exception!
Reon

I don't believe that you have any regrets about creating another thread about faith and religion. And I do have my positive beliefs and faith but am comfortable enough with them not to bloviate to further convince others, or myself, of them.

Without a doubt..

There’s clearly some evil entities out there that have collectively and effectively been doing all they can to promote the decay and destruction that we see in our society today. Our society is in worse shape nowadays…physically, mentally, and spiritually…than it’s ever been in my entire lifetime.

But the Christian Church, and individual Christians, have got to take some responsibility for this. Evil has been present on the earth for a very long time. And again, our society is in worse shape nowadays…physically, mentally, and spiritually…than it’s ever been in my entire lifetime.

The current generation of leaders in the Christian Church, and individual Christians, are not only losing the conversation with non-Christians…but a lot of the time…they’re not even in the conversation anymore. The conversation needs to change because the current conversation is making less of a difference every day.

Something fundamental is changing in our society, and many Christian leaders, and individual Christians, are missing it. The indifference in our society towards Christianity is growing.

Significantly different times…especially in light of the pitiful condition of our society nowadays…call for significantly different approaches. The apostle Paul varied his approach depending on his audience. When he was specifically to Greeks in Athens he used a different line of argument than when he was speaking to Jews in Judea.

The bottom line is that cultural alarm bells are…and have been…goin’ off that the current approach isn’t working. The Christian Church, and individual Christians (and myself especially) have got to take responsibility for a whole lot of this absolute mess.

I remember in the mid 70's that Europe was post Christian. I see in my lifetime that the US has been going in that direction.

We need to teach the truth about origins.

Yes, I agree on that. Just look at the rudeness and verbiage on the fire as an example. That is NOT an example of being a Christian. I am guilty of it also at times. The fact that its all around wears on a person.

7mm I should have said you are being met with hostility, that is the way I read it, just didn't type it that way. ....as far as suicide, the talk came from you.....bob

Factions.....

Very true, but I myself cannot blame this on Christians. As I previously stated, Christians, and for that matter conservatives are always open to respectful dialogue, talking things out rather than arguing about it. Non Christians, and particularly liberals are almost always the ones to start calling names and getting argumental. That is a natural response. When one’s position is weak, going on the offensive, getting nasty and personal insults are usually the response. One who is debating logically has no reason for it, but a losing position that cannot stand scrutiny, is naturally gonna try to end the debate.

you get it....the op was/is looking for attention and added the drama.....bob

Understood. IF or WHEN, I give up on residing in a free country, and ONLY then, am I likely to think about checking out early.
I can understand it with a terminal disease (which I ain’t got🙏), but otherwise I’d rather lose my life fighting back against evil. Jefferson said that “resistance to tyranny is obedience to God”, and I certainly won’t argue with our most intelligent President.

Didn't read the entire thread, but I think the current level of comfort in this country has convinced many they are in no need of God.
So, I think God is bringing reminders.

Take the whole LBGTQLMNOP awareness day recently.

It's been happening for a couple years and no Christian group stood up and made a big enough stink of it at all or pushed back enough for anyone to notice.

And then, I'll be darned, it fell on Easter. Imagine that. Think a few years ago when the whole awareness day (i.e. vote getting day) was concocted that some one thought, "oh heck, in a couple years this will fall on Easter"?

I do not...................but God did.

And it brought an entire new group of Christians to the fight.

Rationalized greed.

Christians and conservatives most definitely are open to respectful dialog... and it seems that is the ONLY thing they are open to. INSISTING on playing nice while the world is burning around them. Sometimes a whip of cords is necessary. At the very least, we should stop trying to "debate" the enemy. No matter how many times we "destroy them with facts and logic", they are unimpressed. They will not change their minds, and they will not stop.

Amen!!!!

Your mention about not debating the enemy brings something to my mind. One of the tactics taught by Saul Alinsky was to ridicule your opponent. I think it's fair to say we would be considered his opponents, if you call yourself a Christian and you're not you've swallowed a lie somewhere. Anyway the use of ridicule is very effective as there really is no defense. It's in full use everywhere too especially online where there is no danger of being punched in the mouth.

And the part about playing nice. It's been said on this thread the remarks made by some that profess to be Christians are as bad as anyone else. Very true. Also shameful. It's easy to get drug into name calling on here or any other site like this where there is a free exchange of words. Just because you can say something rude or insulting doesn't mean it should be said. Paul himself said that all things are legal for him but not all were expedient. Then there's the teaching to not be a stumbling block especially to a non believer. Pride gets in the way though so the words fly. I'm realizing more every day that what I think really doesn't matter on this forum or anywhere else but when someone makes a post that there is no God or we have no need of Him or whatever the case it doesn't stir up a feeling of anger but one of hurt. It's then that I tell myself there is nothing I can say to make this better and just stay quiet. For me by doing that the battle is not mine but it belongs to God. I hope my life is not a reason for anyone to miss out on the blessings of God.

When the Bible thumpers are constantly shoving their beliefs down peoples throats, they shouldn't be surprised when those same people tell them to shove their religion up their as$.

Biggest hypocrites I've ever dealt with are the hard core Bible beaters.

How do the god fearing folk expect to be taken seriously when they endorse a guy that cheats on his wife, cusses, swears, degrades others, mocks people, lies, steals, cheats, passes policy taking away individual freedoms and rights, etc etc.

If the Bible beaters are serious about looking for answers go find a mirror and take a good long look.

^🤡^

No, we're entering a post America America.

[quote]When the Bible thumpers are constantly shoving their beliefs down peoples throats, they shouldn't be surprised when those same people tell them to shove their religion up their as$.

Biggest hypocrites I've ever dealt with are the hard core Bible beaters, you can insert about anything here./quote]

Hard core anybody, are fringe lunatics. Example-sports fans. Fans is abbreviation for fanatics. miles

I’ve never met a good person or anyone that wasn’t a hypocrite. They might have most people fooled but that’s about it. It’s a good thing eternal life and conduct are unrelated.

There you go trashing bill clinton again.

It began in the 1700s when a philosopher said, "Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest."

Clarity

Buzzy: You might consider how your third paragraph describes the present resident of the Whitehouse. Trump is quite imperfect but he didn't sell out our country and put us into WW3 which has already started. You do I hope realize that your Resident is a pervert around little girls, a thief, and while Trump boorishly said something about grabbing a woman there is a very credible story out there about the Idiot in Chief actually pushing Tara Reade up against a wall and sticking his finger up her twat. She is so scared of being suicided that she has fled to Russia for protection. You do know that Biden extorted the president of Ukraine to fire an honest man to cover up his own and his son's crimes. As for cussing, nobody comes close to what Biden says in unguarded moments. I am not a bible beater but I am a bible reader that understands those books can be twisted to fit any argument. Also the bible teaches us that an adulterous king of Israel was used by God to lead his people.

Biden is an evil, perverted, and now demented old man. So senile he doesn't seem to know who he is or where he is most of the time. I suspect he will not be the Democrat candidate if they can just figure out how to get Kamala out of the way.

I understand you are a federal bureaucrat and like most bureaucrats you will vote for the Democrat even if they put an ape up as a candidate, but you can't seriously find Trump more morally reprehensible than Biden.

Sorry don't believe in your fear mongering bullchit any more than hypocritical bible beaters.

Double up on the tinfoil, and don't forget to pray.

😟

Rich, repeating the stories that 99% of the American population KNOW to be totally false will gain few converts.

I KNOW that you believe these stories with all your heart, as did my Gramps, and Gramm, and Dad, and Uncles and Aunts. But most of the younger generation has opened their eyes and looked at the physical evidence around them and see the contradictions with the old "origin stories".

It is very hard to convince a people of the validity of your Book when it is built on a foundation of drifting sand.

The Christian Church would do well to be rid of everything prior to Abraham.

They believe they are cats and dogs....maybe they will believe in creation.

Buzzy: Specifically what did I write that you don't believe

The best of times should have been preserved, the things that enriched our lives, the space and freedom, community and the liveability of our cities and towns.... but ya can't stop progress.

Is it really debate, when the fall back position is always, but the Bible says: Actually that should be "my interpretation of the Bible says" because seldom do two Christians on the street even agree on that.

For instance look at how the churches are embracing the LBGQ community, because Jesus loves each equally.

And then look at the "Campfire Conservatives' " reaction to that acceptance.

Personally, I do not want the queers anywhere that they might come in contact with my kids or grandkids. But it is not my right to tell them where they can go or not. So, I will advise the kids on where they should go.

To the OP.


Whatever defined “post Christian”, if there actually can be such a thing, we passed through over the last two decades. We are now in a pre Christian existence since we are effectively in a full blown pagan culture in western societies.

Take an objective look at the Noah and Young Earth threads. Look at all the literalist posting and consider how that's viewed by modern, scientifically literate critical thinkers.

Constantine did it.

Just take anything that no longer makes sense and burn it.

Good luck finding a committee to agree on that though.

Are you proposing, that because literalism and some scientific interpretation stand at odds, there can be no truth concerning religion, the spirit, one absolute truth, the metaphysical?

"As for me, and my house, we will serve the Lord."

👍👍

These words and this sentiment are utterly meaningless to people who are outside the faith in either a post Christian or pre Christian culture.

Not exactly.

I propose Christian's focus on teaching the Bible as a collection of literary truths, instead of literal truths. A TRH points out, Jesus teaches through parables. Are the lessons less valuable of the storied did not actually happen?

The Bible contains many powerful lessons, but those deeper meanings are lost when obvious fables are presented as having literally occurred. Instead of the debate the personal and societal implication of these parable, the discussion stops at "prove it really happened".

If Christains are able to get past their literalism, they may save some semblance of the religion going forward. If not, Christianity will find itsself in the same dust bin as the ancient religions of Rome, Greece and the Norse.

Please post, Bobby Bare, May God Bless America Again

We are on our own. If we are incapable of pulling ourselves out of the sh*t, we go under.

Entering? Wake up and smell the coffee. You are about 60 years behind the times.

I'll do my best to keep on track with the intent of the OP concerning how these things are related to a "post-Christian" culture.

I don't think that we should consider the Bible as a collection of literary truths because it really isn't written as such. According to Christ's teaching on the OT scriptures the whole of the OT and NT are about Christ Himself. His story is woven into the texts of the OT beginning to end. I realize that many people look to the Scriptures for moral guidance in patterning their lives but that isn't the focus of scripture. Scripture teaches that we are not able to keep the moral laws and guidelines thus the need for Christ. If that messages is lost or altered the truth of the Christian faith is lost and Post or pre Christian sojourners will miss the message of the Gospel.

You're point addressing proof is spot on with the teaching of scripture and central to the continuation of the Gospel. Paul noted that if Christ isnt risen our faith is futile and we have no hope. For the post or pre Christian thinker that challenge, to ask if Christ is risen, is central to belief. However, science can hypothesize but never theorize concerning this event. The truth about the resurrection can only be addressed through history in an academic sense. I'm glad that you aren't taking the line of reasoning that the three Aussie's use (I hope that I'm not assuming incorrectly). My assumption is that this statement is based on the view that the Scriptures are literary truths.

To a degree I agree with your view on literalism. All of scripture is not written in a literal sense. I understand what other Christian's mean when they say that they believe "all of the Bible" "literally" but most parrot cliches when doing so. The text is complex and whether literal, poetic, figurative, historic, etc., it dovetails together beautifully when proper context is considered. The Christian faith has likely been attacked more visciously throughout it's history than any other religions combined. It has withstood these times only to flourish. Were it simply a set of literary truths rather than something greater I don't think that it would be as widely represented as we know it to be. A lot of hammers have shattered in attempts to break it into pieces.

I don't know if we are in a Post Christian America. That would indicate that America was at one time Christian.

Christianity got off to a bad start in America with a bunch of immigrants operating under the flag of Christianity when they should have used the Jolly Roger as a more appropriate flag for their hijacked brand of "Christianity".

The Massachusetts witch trials are just one infamous example among a multitude. Now we have hundreds of sects of Christianity and most of them aren't anywhere close to Jesus and his original church. And most of them even in small rural communities don't get along doctrinally.

Instead of just being concerned about the hostility that is being displayed towards Christianity in our society nowadays, followers of Jesus should maybe be just as concerned…maybe more so…about the indifference that is being displayed towards Christianity in our society nowadays.

Maybe the indifference is more of an issue than the hostility is. Indifference is likely a much harder issue to deal with. With hostility, it’s seems that the angry person is at least still engaged. With indifference, it seems pretty clear that you’ve lost em’…at least for the time being.

Indifference is a very different obstacle or opponent than disagreement or hostility is.

Believers are only commanded to "tell" not commanded to "make them listen."

Sometimes the blame has to be placed squarely on the individual, and Judgement Day is that place and time.

The Holy Spirit will work as directed by God.

Paul said he taught nothing but "Christ crucified" which he said was a stumbling block to the Jews and foolishness to the greeks/gentiles, but the power of God to them that are being saved.

There is no other message. The concept of trying or needing to "package it" in some way to present it differently to appeal to current culture is very VERY likely a flawed idea. The reason its not sweeping people into the kingdom as in days passed is probably a "sign of the times".

Scripture promises that before the end there will be a great "falling away". We may be witnessing that now. We are without doubt witnessing "A" falling away....but God has always heretofore responded with a revival.

My opinion is that we are in the last days and this is it.....based on what I see. Too many things are coming together at the same time compared to any other time in history. But, I realize that countless others have thought the same thing in their times.

And the apostle Paul clearly varied his approach depending upon who his audience was. Speaking to Greeks in Athens required a different line of approach than speaking with Jews in Judea.

Even though his message of, “Christ crucified”, remained the same.

If you will look back many hundreds of years the great falling away happened when Christianity and Rome joined forces.

Most sects of Christianity today are the illegitimate offspring of that illegitimate marriage.

But the original version of Christianity, the one practiced by Jesus’ earliest followers, has ALWAYS existed since it began, with the resurrection of Jesus. Nope. Not most. You only say “most” because the overwhelming majority of the Christian “sects” of today see…as did Jesus Himself, the Jerusalem apostles, and the apostle Paul…the absolute incompatibility of the Law of Moses with the New Covenant that Jesus Himself instituted.