I was looking on line for ammunition and handloading components and noticed somthing interesting. The places I usually get ammo or components were short of everything. But especially ammo and componest specific to SD handguns 9MM, 38/357,40 S&W,10MM and 45 ACP brass and bullest even proper size primers are nearly impossible to find. Same goes for loaded ammo, everyone seems to be out of stock. It is the same in rifle ammo and components 5.56/.223 .308,30-06,300 WM right on up to 50 BMG. Loaded ammo, brass, bullets and primers are out of stock. Is it that EVERYONE is buying it up against furure bans, or is everyone just getting ready for somthing else? The only reason I was looking is because my stocks of components are getting low I usually stock up once a year or so.

Even the bammy voters are stocking up. How stupid is that?

Thats why I'm stocking up on lead,powder,patch cloth and caps.I have enough sofar for three hundred rounds.I'm buying 100lbs of lead and getting a book on making black powder.Also I just sold my bolt action .308 and got a Ruger 10/22 with a thousand rounds of yellow jackets.I just have to stock up on .35rem for my Marlin levergun. Also I have plenty of arrows for my bow.

"The sky is falling! The sky is falling!" Mass hysteria that strikes the shooting community at regular intervals making it difficult for the everyday shooter to get components.

Are you saying there is nothing to fear from the demorats?

Store huge stocks of canned tuna (protein), canned green beans (vitamin & minerals), canned citrus fruit (anti scurvy). The fluid these foods are canned in will hydrate you.

Stock up on booze and cigarettes for barter.

There is always something to fear.� Many times it is ourselves and we wind up creating problems where none need exist.� I am always bothered by the "me first, me next, me last, and the heck with everyone else" hoarding that clears off the shelves and leaves many people with nothing.� I don't see where that is in our long-term best interest.� Best, John

Stocking up to shoot the bastards that try to take 'em from us, that's what I think is happening. BTW, WHO is going to confiscate our guns? Local cops (MY NEIGHBOR) I doubt it, National Guard (again, my neighbor) not likely, the regular army? I guess maybe the regular army, but there sure are quite a few conservatives and gun nuts in the armed forces.

I'm scared of what BHO and his commie cabinet are up to.

Wook

I have enough to reload for normal CAS use for about a year and some casual plinking. Ain't buying any more till 1/2 is gone. I am no longer infused with fear of the government, if "they" come I'll deal with it, until then life as usual. Seen too many of these scares and ain't wasting any money "stocking up".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-taU9d26wT4

Didn't they confiscate the guns during hurricane Katrina?

Yep, even if it meant slamming a granny against a wall to take an unloaded weapon. Why they didn't taze her baffles me.

One answer is here.

For years I've made a habit of stopping at Walmart whenever I'm near one and pick up a few value packs of range quality.38 Special or .45 ACP. Never once had a problem with this. Passed by one a couple of weeks ago and stopped in to do my usual, and the guy tells me he's out of both calibers. I thought he just meant the value packs, so I asked what he had in those calibers, and he said he was clean out of everything in those two calibers. Weird.

I do the same thing, I just love the look on a clerks face when after he asks you how many boxes you want and you say, "All of them".

I know. My brother in law (along with my sister) both popped the Champaign corks and celebrated when their man won (both life-long leftist and anti-gun Democrats). But the very next day he drives to the local gunshop to buy himself a high cap auto pistol. The sales clerk tells him that #1, the model he wants is not California legal, and #2 only cops can buy high cap mags for it anyway in California. My nephew (a Young Republican) was with him, and related the story to me. My brother in law demanded to know why he couldn't buy that gun and a high cap mag in California. The clerk just shrugged his shoulders and said, "It's the God-damned Democrats." He stormed out fuming.

I keep a "few" rounds around, but I got the feeling if I started snapping caps at the appointed gun gatherers...they'd have my cold dead hands pryed open long before I got off a thousand accurately aimed rounds. I don't think I can keep up much of a seige from my house...and wouldn't want to with the family and all here.

Gets to that point you gotta be sneaky...lol

It's even sweeter when there's a riot going on and they find out there's a waiting period.

Perhaps now you understand why I've long maintained that anyone who insists on remaining a free American has far more to fear from the police than from criminals.


Flame away.

The really strange part about the current run on ammo, is that anyone is surprised by it at all.
Even goofier, is that any sentient human being, with any interest in shooting and guns, whistled past the grave yard during the entire election cycle, before reaching the realization that something was afoot.

I usually try to keep a years supply, or so, of components and ammo on hand. The price almost never goes down on anything, shooting related at least, so keeping a buffer isn't a bad idea unless you are buying at inflated "scare" prices.

I don't advocate ammunition/components as a financial investment, by any means, but they are doing a hell of lot better than almost any investment over the last few years.

Be interesting to see if shooting supply prices moderate in light of the virtual collapse of the commodity market who's uptick caused the price increases.

Maybe this guy has it all

http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=news/local&id=6630888

Dale

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You act like this is going on in every city and town in America 24/7. You don't have a clue, more of your tinfoil paranoia, that you like to spread around.

You'd love it and you know it. I'll bet the scene of that old woman getting tackled made you smile. Do you have a cape, so you can fly around protecting the earth?

Besides the Govt. buying a large amount of handgun and rifle ammo in Mil. calibers to support two fronts. Civilian contractors are buying up large amounts of ammo for overseas operations also.

I talked to a manager of the parent Co. that owns Federal Ammo. ATK. They were decreasing the output on many civilian calibers and increasing the Mil. orders. The other Co.'s are probably doing the same.

Many of your LE supply houses don't have the amount of ammo that they normally carry either. Again i was told that alot of it was going overseas.

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I seize weapons all the time, mainly due to criminal activity. Unless it's happening in my county and will effect me, i don't care about it. I don't give a schit about what they do in NOLA. It didn't effect you, nor me.

Your acid wit grows on one.

No flames here; only caveat is, not all the leo's, but certainly most of the command level ones.



Man, that's a heavy load for you to be carrying around.....

MM

If they come to get me, they will dig me out before I can use up all I have now.
A few aimed rounds will assure the cost of doing so was high

Be prepared for an 0400 flash bang, followed by your door being rammed in, followed by a line of SWAT soldiers charging in, weapons covering every corner of your home. When they come for your guns. It will likely be something like that.

Stop will all that talk, Hunter1960 might cream his shorts thinking about it.

All you have to do is look at England to see what could happen here. Also is anyone elses Walmart "remodeling" their gun section. at the Walmarts near me, they've remodeled the gun section down to one small cabinet with a few boxes of ammo in it,no more guns.Maybe they were afraid Micheal Moore was going to do another movie and show up at Walmarts corporate office to ask them to stop selling guns and ammo like he did to Kmart.Or maybe Walmart is run by a bunch of twinkle toed, commie, antigun, liberal scum.

I fixed your purposeful slight.

Man, it must suck to be you; wearing your gun to bed and in the shower, seeing crooked cops behind every badge, imagining anyone has the resources to confiscate, by force, with SWAT teams no less, the 300+ million guns that are in private hands in the US.

You need psychiatric care.

I bought two pounds of powder. That should keep me going for 10 years for legal hunting purposes.

Everything else I can pick up somewhere - and I don't do "plinking".

We are still at the threshold of what could be an even more serious economic disaster and I would be SHOCKED if Obama spent one IOTA of his political clout fighting the NRA and all the staunch gun proponents over such silly pieces of gun legislation that clearly does nothing to curb crime. I think Obama learned a little something from the Clinton Administration concerning that. Love him or hate him, like Clinton, he's a smart man. When I get stressed about our new leadership, I just remind myself that we could have had Hillary!

In regards to reloading components, my local supplier is brimming with with stuff! Powder, primers, bullets aplenty! Not sure what he has as far as brass, but some of the brass makers are as responsible for the shortage as anyone. The seasonal run thing has me pizzed at Winchester sometimes. Anyway, what do I know.....

Don't think any of us have been around long enough to see a scare like this. Not a normal hiccup

g

Payday, cometh..... Just consider it investing in "metals futures".....

I don't think it's going to take any political clout to get it done as the majority is large enough. He can "compromise" a little to bring their own in line and it's a done deal. I always thought in a compromise both sides got something, not the case when it comes to decimation of God given rights. Well, we will get something, I suspect it will go something along the lines of a prison shower rape. That is what thugs do when they have power.

Honestly, since the outcome of the presidential election I've been making frequent efforts to add to my ammunition stockpile. I'm with the camp that believes that although I don't know exactly what "Something" is in the works and coming before long in terms of gun control from the Obama administration. I have made efforts to frequent various ammunition suppliers both locally and online and have definitely noticed some of the more common caliber rounds are drying up. I haven't seen a box of range ammo in .45 ACP @ any of 3 different Walmarts now for 4+ weeks. I'm glad I started buying a little at a time when I did. Even if when it does become available again you know that the price is going up quickly because of the rush. It already has to some extent and it's only going to go higher. I'm glad I didn't sell my AR-10 a few years back when I was thinking about it. I made that mistake one with a Colt Combat Commander. Sold a cherry Colt 45 1911 for a mere $300.00. I practically gave it away. Now I see you can't get your hands on one for anything less than 700 or so.

I'm going to get with a buddy of mine that I work with and see if he want's to go in half on purchasing some bulk ammo to help absorb the increased cost. You all should consider doing the samething. I'm sure you all know somebody else that shoots that wouldn't mind saving a bit while adding to their arsenal.

Roach

I think that there are too many Dems that represent rural areas that will not fall in line as you suspect.

I'd like to believe it.

If in your estimation I'm in need of psychiatric care, the Founders must have positively been ready for the rubber room, as their level of suspicion regarding the prospect of standing professional armed forces under the command of agencies of government (ordinarily referred to as soldiers) exceeded even my own.

LMAO...please follow the shrink's orders as to meds!

The FF's blew people's heads off for taxing their breakfast tea, goofy man. Further, I think the FF's would have knocked you into the lockers listening to your nonsense, as well.

That's my feeling too, but I'm always reminded that those folks are probably equally against abortion, open borders, foreign aid, the bailouts, etc., yet this fact doesn't seem to effect the voting behavior of their Dem representatives.

I'm sorry, Isaac, old buddy. I used to enjoy debating you, but lately your debate style has deteriorated into simply hurling grade-school level attempts at insults. You're going on my ignore list for a while, joining the ranks of Stan and Hunter. I'll see how it works out taking you off again after a while (because I know you're capable of better). Never too late to grow up and learn to play like the grown ups do.

You're going on my ignore list for a while.
_________________________________

Thank you. My tolerance for stupid has caught up with me. You having me on ignore will minimize a great deal of the frustration!

Lately, you have been that stupid! But, you'll have to put about 40 others on ignore before you get it!

How about another dinner pic before you go?

Any of you guys still have case loads of Spam and Creamed Corn left over from the Y2K scare?

LOL. My two cases of MREs from Y2K just expired this January 1st. Hate to throw them away, but they're not exactly gourmet cuisine so I don't want to eat them. Thought about feeding them to my dog before they expired, but wasn't sure what it would do to his stomach.

Sorry buddy. You're on ignore.

Gents,

As has been said, some of the ammo shortage may be related the general fear that may have regarding crime. I live in a suburb outside a major western city. My shooting buddy was at a dinner last Saturday night and the county sheriff was there. The sheriff reported that his deputies were having their hands full running off "inner city youth" who were coming out the city and performing burglaries in the county burbs. A few muggings but not too many yet. He apparently came right out and told folks to get their CC permits and start packing as his deputies were having trouble keeping up. It seems the deputies try to spot the "out of place" vehicles and follow them.... looking to pull them over for something...most of the time they just go someplace else which is what he wants.

Had a lady's car "bumped" at a traffic light....early morning...still dark... she pulls over thinking she has just been involved in a fender bender.... guy walks up with a gun... takes the lady's purse and cell phone...and takes off.

I guess the Sheriff also stated that he expected a federal ban on new CC permints and that the ammo tax is coming. My kind of sheriff. He said many folks are buying guns, getting permits and stocking up. Makes sense to me.

Slim

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Kcih, Let me tell you something you silly SOB, i've spent twenty years protecting rights of Americans in conflicts all over this world as a soldier. I've been a member of the NRA for over thirty years.

My job as an LEO is just that a JOB, not a lifestyle, i've quit agencies because i didn't believe in their concepts and policies and will do it again if need be. You paranoid [bleep] think that your in some jhaid against the US Govt.

http://westernrifleshooters.blogspot.com/2008/07/vanderboegh-handgun-against-army-ten.html



Lawyers should not be allowed to legislate. The end.

Should you?

If they are just stocking up so they can play at their hobby for a few extra months, shame on them.

Here's hoping enough of us have the courage to use our weapons for the purpose the authors of and ratifiers of the Bill of Rights intended, because that is the only thing keeping the politicians from taking away all our rights and liberties.

If I had to judge by regional availablity here in the shops I regularly cruise and the gun shows I go to, there is no ammo shortage. The crowds are lugging away ammo and the makings at a record rate... and yet there is still more on the shelves. It can't last forever. Something has to give -- the refilling of shelves or the seemingly self-sustaining panic.

Note how many sellers of the products use scare stories to justify their high prices and yet noone seems to question their commercial interest in the panic talk. I have had shop owners say they can't keep up with black rifle demand -- with a whole rack on display right behind them and more coming in the back door!

There are also lots of aluminimum-foil hatters, rascists, and the usual eleven fingered crowd who seem to be driving the process too. They are armed to the teeth and not only digging in to fight the UN paratroopers -- they are aggressive and not particularly into law and order either.

Hell, I even joined the crowd buying a Mini 14 ranch rifle in 6.8 rather than weld bayonet studs onto my Ruger #1s... But I'm not sure it will ever get used, except on a deer maybe... or on some green-toothed moron acting out his Gotterdamerung fantasy.

As we used to say in the Army 40 years ago, "---ing Americans".

1B

That's some good reading right there. Especially the part about what good is a handgun against an army. Thanks for posting it.

SWAT teams!

Hawkeye,

In all fairness, I should tell you that although I do not share your level of paranoia/fear of the government taking my firearms...

I'm not giving them up!

Good man.

Wow...you whine all the time about people cursing you and then you post this. I fail to see where either poster cursed you first. Hope you don't curse citizens like this when you pull them over to ticket them for 22 in a 20 zone or if they get in front of you at Krispy Kreme.

It seems that there usually are considerable out-of-stock situations this time of year as vendors likely pared their inventories for year end.

No doubt that all the post-election buying has aggravated the situation.

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First,who pulled your chain. Secondly, i don't work traffic enforcement, nor do i eat Krispy Kreme. Last but not least, what i say to people on the street is between me and my agency, which is none of your flippen business. If you mind your own business Younger, you'll have more then enough to keep you busy in Kansass!

What are you in this the Govt. is out to get me crew also? Your the last one to talk, how much money are you getting from the USDA for crop subsidies? You sure like the Govt. when the AG money rolls in. Can you truly and honestly state that you've never received any Fed. AG dole from the Govt for anything?

Why don't some of you tinfoil hatters call and speak to the ammo Co's as to what you perceive to be a shortage, and hear what they have to say. This versus the Oh me! Oh my! the sky is falling.

You should try the Krispy Kreme's. They're a lot better than that Daylight Donuts chit that you're used to.

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Oh well don't have a donut shop in this county, fried pies are better.

Why don't you answer my Govt. AG dole question in the previous post???

Many folks in your profession are no different then welfare receipents, if things don't go their way or if the weather is bad, they cry to Uncle Sugar for a handout of one sort or another.

It's funny i see farms that never make crap, families have been living on milk or crop subsidies ever since they were started. The Minnenites come in and buy the place and create a profitable farm, without Govt. handouts.

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The Sheriff is well aware of the escalating crime, but sadly due to budget constraints, he may not be able to increase his personnel to deal with it. The economy has trickle down effects upon the budgets of your local public safety at times.

Damn right, excellent article!

Putting your money in non-perishable tangibles, that you know you will eventually need, is a smart move in a pre-inflationary period like we are probably in now.

Seen how the money supply has expanded this year? Take a look at Fed & Treasury Total Money (FTTM): http://www.nowandfutures.com/key_stats.html

That's going to shrink any cash you're holding onto, sooner or later, maybe in a big way. It won't shrink things made of brass and powder.

I think it's a great idea on the Arms and Ammunition manufacurer's part to use everyones paranoia to pump up sales when the economy starts putting a stain on profit.

My wife worked with a Mennonite years ago at a grain elevator. He was a real assshole. You had to feel sorry for the guy to an extent though. He had to beg his wife to sew pockets on his home-made jeans as the material was so precious to them they felt it a sin to waste it that way.

Two points...first, things are not always as they seem with certain ones in religions/sects of that sort. (I am in no way saying all Mennonites are asssholes. Some are some fine people.) Second, you would not want to live the way Mennonites, Shakers, German Baptists, Amish, etc. live. It's a hard life and it is no wonder they can farm profitably.

Yet a third point that I just thought of is that they are a good case against corporate farms and huge farms in general. The latter two have been touted for years as the only way to stay in farming.

As to your comments about government payments, indeed there are many in my profession who are as bad as you say. In fact, they are worse because unlike people in the ghetto they drive new cars, have combines that run more than your net worth, etc.

As to me personally, I don't have to answer any of your questions and I didn't have to answer any of the above. In fact, I can even tell you to go [bleep] yourself and there's not a dammed thing you can do about it. I could even tell you to eat chit and KMA if I so desired. The thing is, I am a polite sort, so I didn't do any of those things. I'll quit taking government subsidies when the government leaves the market itself alone and quits messing with it to support those who are the poorest farmers in the name of the family farm, but actually, to help big business.

Now, the difference between you and I my "friend", is that I am not on here harping on my "service" and how much good I do the community, day-after-day. It has just come up in a few posts over the years. You talk about either your job as poleece or your special ops experience in nearly every thread. And your tenor is that anybody who has not done the same as you should kiss your asss for it.

You forgot the Apache Attack Helicopters. But I agree with you.

Give me a break about the swat team / military raids against the populace. That only works when the people being raided are small isolated groups. If you know how to handle that for a large and resistant general populace, our military would like your advice in Afghanistan....

The government could never afford to do such raids from a fiscal standpoint, much less a PR standpoint. The first deaths on either side that didn't involve some looney cult group would blow up in the government's face, and they know it.

The proof that you're wrong is that it happens all the time and the public doesn't blink an eye.

Confiscation of all guns from general populace, resulting in shootouts with the military and swat teams, happens on a regular basis? I must have missed that.

I thought we weren't talking about isolated events with local authorities, or even isolated BATF or FBI bad behavior, but a general confiscation / SHTF scenario.

You said This happens regularly to non-loonies. I missed where it blew up in the government's face.

PS To a certain extent, a looney is whoever the government announces is a looney.

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Hawkeye thinks that if it happens once, it's happening all over the country, on a daily basis as part of a general Govt. conspiracy. He burrows up in his residence and takes in whatever the internet throws out as the truth. The paranoia and fear that he suffers is terrible, what a way to live just the dog and himself.

He doesn't understand such things as weapon confiscation due to criminal activity such a domestic violence and other crimes. He hasn't seen the cases of wives who've reported and signed warrants stating that their husbands have threatened them with or without weapons.

After service of the warrant, the wife states that she wants the weapons out of the house due to her fear of the husband bonding out and coming back and killing her. Guess what fella's in most states those guns belong to the wife as much as they do to you. Has LE collected guns, yes we have. Has LE banded and chained safes at the wifes request, yes we have.

People are complaining about people buying too much ammo...I love it. In 4-8 years we'll be talking about right now as being the time when ammo was cheap.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWgVrM3qGQM

Even the main stream media is beginning to notice.

I'm sure if you buy .30-06 or other such ammo availability is no problem at all right now. Try finding good quality 5.56 ammo. You can find it in small quanitites if you want to pay twice what it was 6 months ago.

Let's not forget someone might shoot a big bore 50 times a year. I can burn thru 500 rounds or more in an afternoon of 5.56/.223 it doesn't last long.

Thankfully I'm prepared and could go probably 10 years without buying ammo if I had to.

I don't believe they'll ever come get your guns/ammo. I do believe eventually it just becomes such a hassle that lots of people will stop.

When Obama talks about closing the "gunshow loophole" what he means is selling from one citizen to another without a FFL involved...that's a good start right there.

It's like fully auto weapons are still legal in this country it's just become such a hassle and mess to get one and pay the tax stamp hardly anyone does it anymore.

You think republicans are going to make this an issue? Really?

The republican party got a new head today..isn't he the one that said only hunters need guns. Way to stand for the constituion.

So you do take Govt. farm subsidy's In the big picture that's really no different then a project ni**er. You can make excuses as to why you take the money, but it's still an excuse.

You don't have to take the checks, the USPS runs both ways, put return to sender on it and don't apply for the subsidies in the future. You don't get the money unless you APPLY. But you won't because you count on those Uncle Sugar checks to keep you up. If you can't make it without Govt. support then sell out.

Don't make the citizens of this country keep your azz up. And you call yourself a conservative and a Republican, maybe not a Republican, but a conservative. Your really truly no different then a liberal Democrat, waiting for their next Govt. support check. You better hope Obamy appoints a good Sec. of Ag. to keep the checks rolling in.

So i am paying you money, because you might be a piss poor manager and have to have the biggest and the best. This along with Uncle Sugar bailing you out of trouble everytime you [bleep] up. It's no wonder that the Mennenites or whatever, can buy these farms that i see for sale in this county and make a profit, without Uncle Sugar wiping their azz.

Why don't you continue your service by putting a shotgun in your mouth?

Keep your silly bich PM's to yourself if you can't comply with my above wish.

Tough times don't last,Tough people do.
Much gnashing of teeth over this administration is that...nothing but hot internet air.I wish the president a healthy 4 year term personally and the single most frustrating term of any president ever. Hank jr. did a song about backwoods rednecks that fits here.

What happens to non-loonies regularly that fails to blow up in the government's face?

This is the tip of the iceberg, I'm no survivalist, but I do have a double major in Economics and Finance. I bought enough of this to last a long long time at ridiculously low prices back when the getting was good. Try to replace it less than 4X's the price right now.

I still have quite a bit from the golden age of cheap mil surp ammo too. Not quite that much, though.

If theres another revolution,I have enough roundball,patch and powder to keep myself and a few other's fighting for a week. ( or at least until they shoot back ). I'm not sure how long we can hold back the M-1 Abrams Platoons with muzzleloaders ?

Hawkeye?

Are you going to respond to my post?

I take that as a "no."

lol Selective reading with low comprehension. I'd rather support those low income housing people with my tax dollars than a bunch more unneeded law enforcement. Rest assured I have no problem with good cops that earn their keep. But then there is you...

Where were you during all those threads about wrong address raids and such? Do I really need to research this for you?

Uh...no.

I can do my own research. I have hunch I won't need to research this.

I wanted to ascertain if, one, someone was killed, and two, was it due to the SWAT soldiers serving a warrant to seize legally possessed weapons.

I take that as another "no."

Q for you 'dood, and I'm not trying to be a smart aleck. You keep referring to SWAT 'soldiers'. I must not be up on the current terminology, but SWAT is cops and SF is soldiers, right?

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You keep sucking the AG dole off Uncle Sugar Younger. Do you have all of your applications submitted? Let the citizens of the USA keep you up. I earn my money, it's called proactivity. You don't live in my community. You worry about KansASS.

The Founding Fathers would have recognized SWAT (and police forces in general) as a standing professional force of armed uniformed men under the command of a government agency, i.e., soldiers. It's a modern distortion to distinguish between the two. There was no such distinction recognized when the Constitution was ratified. The idea of a professional uniformed armed standing force of men under the command of a government agency patrolling the streets would have been abhorrent to the Founders, and reminiscent of the very motivation for the Revolution to start with.

Law, for the most part, was enforced by the elected sheriff, his deputies, the courts and their officers, and the militia when called upon to muster.

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Yes mistakes have been made. In cases that i am aware of civil suits were paid and LEO's were charged criminally for their wrong doing and were found guilty. Agencies have committed to a process of check and recheck, to eliminate such errors from happening in the future. But of course to you it's an overall Govt. conspiracy.

You wake up stupid!

Well guess what, we aren't living in the 1700's anymore. You can't compare the population and the changes in society, that the FF's lived in at that time to now, it's apples to oranges.

They didn't have a crystal ball to predict the future. They wouldn't have an issue with dealing with the criminal element on the streets of America.

I am not talking about your tinfoil hat paranoia, that the Govt. is out to get me. I am talking about the criminal element, that prays upon citizens in this country, that you have no clue about.

hahaahha A big government-fascist-racist telling me about free money? Why don't you quit sukking off the government tit Hunter? You're a lifer. First the military and now law enforcement. How many retirements will you acquire by the time you're too senile to know when you've befouled your pants? Quit giving out tickets and busting kids for jaywalking and get a real job.

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I earned my retirement from the Mil. for my 20 years of service. You going to tell the other Mil. retires on here both regular and disabilty retirements, that they're sucking off the Govt. tit??

You had an opportunity to retire from the Mil. the Govt. paid for your Ed. through ROTC. You could of stayed and earned a retirement also. You made the decision not to, that was your choice, my choice was to stay in the Mil. I made that decision for the future of my family and myself. Your just pissed, because you let an opportunity slip by and others took advantage of it.

As far as my LE retirement again that was my choice. If i hadn't gone into LE i would of stayed with helicopters probably with either the Govt. or Govt. contractor. I've worked non-Govt jobs, i took a three year break from LE and drove a tractor and trailer. I went back to LE, because i enjoyed it and was asked to by a newly elected Sheriff.

But i am not sucking AG subsidies like you. If the truth was known, if yours is a family farm, your family has been sucking Govt. tit, ever since the program started. So that's probably all you know is Govt. handout. Why should you have to do any better or use a different approach, Uncle Sugar will bail your azz out.

Oh well, this has nothing to do with ammo. I need to start another thread, should American farmers be permitted to stay on the Govt. tit? Hopefully the practice will be stopped and they either make it on their own or put a for sale sign on it.

No I'm just telling you that you are.

That sounds a lot like the anti second amendment arguments

That's because the 2nd Amendment is exactly what he's arguing against. And that's exactly why I despise paying people like this for policing and for their retirement from policing and the military. I think good cops and good veterans are way underpaid and underappreciated. I think the bad ones like Hutter suck. What are they protecting anyway? You can't protect America's peoples without protecting her laws (the constitution). Those who don't protect the constitution and who violate it are outlaws themselves.

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I think your just jealous. You threw away a Mil. career and have nothing to show for it. But at least your sucking the USDA tit. With any luck that milk will run dry, and you folks will have to change your ways or sell out.

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You don't know good from bad or anything in between, regarding LE. Because you don't have a clue of what i do in LE. I really don't give a flying [bleep] what you think Younger, you worry about what goes on in KansAss. Your just pissed because i called you out for being on the USDA tit.

Where did i ever say i violated the Constiutional rights of citizens? Those issues are what brings up lawsuits of which i've never been sued. So i must either be lucky or good at covering my tracks. With the number of lawyers per square mile and the deep pockets of Govt. if i was doing wrong i'ld be sued.

Where did i ever say i was against the 2nd Amendment? I am stating that the FF's didn't have the ability to see into the future and gauge what this country has become. LE has a purpose in this country and will continue to serve that purpose.

Who's going to investigate the rapes and robberies and other crimes committed against the citizens, many multiple states away from the scene of the crimes? The citizens themselves?

Many of you have this i have a gun, i can protect myself in home invasions, robberies, rapes, *burglaries *(aslong as your home at the time) that's great, but there's many who don't.

Who's going to investigate these crimes upon those citizens who aren't armed 24/7 365? I live in an area with volunteer fireman, we're lucky to get enough people trained to man a firetruck, can't rely on older folks cause they can't do many of the physical requirements.

Do you think Joe Citizen, is going to take the hours upon hours required to investigate crimes? This while insuring that his fellow citizens rights are being preserved, as he would wish that his rights were preserved, if he was in the same situation?

So are the citizens in the community going to investigate these crimes? I know you think that there's not much to doing LE, but it's more scientific then you think.

No problem, that's exactly how it is. The soldiers reference was aimed at Hawkeye. That's what he calls them. SWAT teams are civilian Peace Officers, not military.



Hey Hawk,

I take it no one was killed in a SWAT raid for weapons. Right? Right. That's what I thought.

Off the top of my head, I cannot tell you (though I imagine there were), but what does that have to do wit the price of beans in China? You've narrowed the criteria.

I asked you that 3 posts back and you finally answer it.

What's it got to do with the price of beans in China?

From your point of view, what you espouse on this thread, everything!

They're coming to get our guns!
They're coming to get our guns!
They're coming to get our guns!
They're coming to get our guns!

I believe what I said was that non-lunatics get shot by cops fairly regularly while minding their own business in their own homes, yet the public has not risen up to demand the situation be corrected that led to it, as someone above insisted would happen on the very first occasion. I believe also that in some cases it was alleged Federal firearms law violations that were the motivation for the raid.

I can say the following without even seeing the numbers: What you say is �fairly regularly� would by my definition be rarely, and even more rarely would the shooting be found to be unjustified.

What does �minding their own business in their own homes� mean? A warrant was served at the wrong location?

If it was an alleged violation of the law then the firearms were not believed to be legally possessed.

hunter1960, I am glad to hear you draw the line at doing things which are unConstitutional. So do a lot of LEOs. President Clinton's poll of the military found that the vast majority would refuse to follow orders to disarm civilians, which is the only reason the Democrats backed off gun control, stopping with Brady and the AWB.

But Obama is not that smart or that pragmatic. His advisors are the most radical of Bill Clinton's, plus his communist buddies from Chicago and Boston.

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You don't ever see the outcome of these events. You only hear of the event occuring. It can take anywhere from two to three years or more for the civil trial or criminal trial to take place regarding the outcome of these events.

If you did the follow up check of these types of events where they occured. You'ld see that either a civil trial or criminal trial has taken place. In the two wrong address, deadly force cases i'm aware of, civil suits were filed and awarded to the victim's family. Criminal charges were filed and LEO's were found guilty.

But of course you don't do your follow up, so to you all cases are a conspiracy by the Govt. to cover up the act.

Good thread jack guys!

elkhunter,

I think if you look back at the beginning of this thread you'll see it wasn't the LEOs and former LEOs that took it in this direction.

Doesn't matter....thread still got jacked!

You ALL could take a chill and come out to shovel some of the global warming we have been blessed with!

Let it go guys. Ain't worth pissin on each other about!

I just saw some rather scary videos on You Tube. They record New Orleans cops and both LA and OK national guard units and coast guard units stopping, searching and confiscating guns from private citizens prior to Katrina, during the forced evacuation.

The N O cops were acting on orders from either the Mayor or comnissioner or chief. I presume the national guard was under orders of the Gov. I don't know why the coast guard was involved or where they got their orders.

Pictures of home town boys just following orders to disarm fellow citizens - for any pretext is alarming.

Not all parties got their weapons back. Some were destroyed on the spot. The Gestapo refused to provide receipts. Force and the threat of lethal force was used.

I do not have a count of the guns taken.

rliss

So Hunter, as an LEO what would you do in this case, if you were ordered to confiscate weapons in a Katrina-type scenario? What if you were threatened with the loss of your job and being black-balled with LE?

I think I know.

What T LEE just said... my thinking as well !~!~!


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

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I'ld quit. I've got a Mil. retirement paying a salary and health benefits. Besides i've got a CDL in my pocket. This along with an A&P certificate that just needs to be updated. I can go work for the Govt. or a Govt. contractor or civilian organization on helicopters.

I've left an LE agency due to not believing in the concept and attitude of the agency. With my experience and LE training, i can find an agency to work at, be it a US LE agency or a LE/Mil contractor.

What are you going to do if the USDA stops the subsidies and cuts you off the tit?

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I'ld be a professional Pitbull shooter, possibly in FL.

I don't agree with your interpretation of the Constitution. I will give you a huge amount of credit on quitting before taking people's guns. I couldn't believe a fine bunch of boys like the Oklahoma National Guard would be a party to it, yet evidently they were. Very high praise to you Hunter for having the ethics to quit. Perhaps I've been too harsh on you at times.

To answer your question, I'd probably starve...lol

Actually no more than I make in USDA payments, it wouldn't effect my lifestyle a bit. Since you so graciously answered my loaded question, I'll go a bit farther. I get money from the government for CRP, which is paying me for NOT raising crops. It seems like a bogus program, but actually there are some advantages to it. Much land that never should have been in production, IMO, went out. There is a lot of land in southeast Kansas that is decent land. It will produce right up there with lots of Missouri and Southern Illinois land if the rains come. Usually, they don't and therein lies the problem. These lands are now grown up in native grasses and are excellent game sanctuaries. Lots of deer lay up in the grass and are never seen by hunters because most hunters prefer the woods. They look at a sea of grass and think it is barren. But you're talking seven-foot switchgrass and Indian Grass, not to mention Big and Little Bluestem, Rye, Buffalo Grass and many other grasses and forbs. Many of the grasses, prairie flowers and other cover that I planted were plants which were getting to be very uncommon due to their being wiped out by modern, large-scale agriculture. So the government is not completely off by offering this program. I have no doubt that I lost money by not having the lands I've got in CRP in production during the spike in commodities prices. I think, year-in and year-out though, that I've been ahead by participating. I resisted participation for many years because I didn't believe in it. I came to the conclusion though, that I was just shorting myself and my family as the government was going to do it anyway.

As to other government subsidies in agriculture, there are two sides to it. I tend to think they are mainly wasteful as they are fraught with corruption. I know farmers around here that not only don't need it, but who cheat in order to get more. I feel like such ones are nothing but scum.

Sounds pretty "Socialist" to me, PPP&PPPP

"Piss Poor Planning & Preparedness Prevents Proper Performance"

From the north country, stock up now ,walk soft, go unseen. In the end you will not regret.

Well, it seems folks here have put to rest the question of why its impossible to find powder, components, and loaded ammo at the local outlet.

I got to say, that some of you guys really do need some medical help! The reality is that fear based purchasing/hoarding exceeds the supplies on the shelves almost immediately. There logically isn't enough powder,primers, brass or factory loaded ammo on store shelves for every single firearm owner to run out and buy up a stockpile. And that is exactly what has happened since October. And now we are playing a crazy game of catchup till either the fear subsides, or crazy [bleep] have enough ammo to believe they can take on the U.S. military or an entire law enforcement agency on their own. I assure you that once shots are fired you'll have a hail storm of chit rained down upon you till the shooting ceases. The only thing that pisses me off is that I cant buy a new caliber rifle of any sort now, because there aint no [bleep] ammo or reloading supplies left on the shelves. So mission accomplished for the paranoid, the shelves are empty!

I checked my local gun shop last friday(3/6/09) and Blazer 9mm ammo-brass cases & fmj bullets- was going for $20.04 a box. 380 ammo was going for $38.00 and rem 22 LR thunderbolts was $24.99 for 500.
WalMart might have helped the local supply by catching a guy buying everything they had and then re selling it without the proper license/permits.
I remember an older gentleman telling me in 1976 that the government would not take our guns because of the resulting revolt but they would price them and ammo out of the market. Looks like his predictions might be coming true.

Do you think that the ammo and reloading component shortage is all do to hoarding? I wonder if the manufacturers are holding back production, waiting to see what possible new laws are created.
A 'lead' ban alone would cancel out 85% of current supplies.

It's always good to be reminded of that. Thanks.

That deserves a repost.