my nieghbors son is thinking of joining the military after he graduates in June.
his parents aren't too happy about the idea because they don't want to lose thier son in Iraq or Afganistan.
he is thinking USMC.
I had him talk to a friend of mine that was a fire fighter for an air wing in the USMC and his advice was,don't just go and sign up to be a Marine,have a particular job in mind and make sure you get it before you sign otherwise you just become a grunt and they put you where they want to.
I suggested the USCG,thinking that he wouldn't end up getting killed by a road side bomb or digging a hole in the desert,and the USCG was good for my buddies son and he is now working with in law enforcement because of his work with the USCG,he also was stationed in So. Cali where they grow Bikini's.

any constructive thoughts on this subject?

With the Obama as the Commander in Cheif you kidding aren't you?

Nothing wrong with Marines, I have to say, I think they will do a better job with a young man now compared to the Army. I'm not impressed with too many of the young soldiers I have met lately. They are getting soft. Les

I would. I can't think of a single occupation that could have had as much of a positive influence on my life as my time in the Navy did.

I would have no reservations about job either. I joined and my recruiter couldn't tell me what my job entailed - classified. MEPS couldn't tell me - classified, my RDCs (DIs for the Navy) couldn't tell me - classified and they had no clue otherwise as they never dealt with CTIs. I went thru training - including the classified parts.

I was all different than the actual job I did.

The military is all what you make of it - step thru the door and work hard - be squared away and it opens others.

I'v seen my Grandson change from a nice but kind of drifting young man after finiishing high school, into a dedicated top performer in his Air Force assignment.

The Navy has more jobs that teach you skills you can use once you're done with your time than any of the other branches. That's the advice I gave my son and it's worked out fairly well for him so far.

Navy....see the world.

Source

Note: this was written before 9/11.

Uncle Sam Wants You

If You're Smart, You Don't Want Him

by Fred Reed


If you are the parent of a young man who is thinking about joining the armed forces, permit me to offer advice:

Tell him not to. Be emphatic about it.

I've spent much of my life around the military--grew up on a military base, drove AMTRACS for the Marines in Viet Nam, and spent decades covering the military as a reporter. I didn't do the Pentagon. Usually I didn't know who the Joint Chiefs of Staff were. I spent my working hours with the troops, in the tanks and fighters, aboard the carriers, in the jungles and swamps and war zones. It made me hard to bullsh*t.

An observation: The armed services are today in the worst shape I've seen, and I remember the days of the post-Viet Nam slump. You don't want your kid in this military.

You don't understand how bad it is.

This country characteristically goes into wars unprepared, and kills off large numbers of young men while trying to make up lost time. We then tell ourselves stories about the heroism of the needlessly dead, and about the evil Nips and dastardly Viet Cong. We did this in WWII, Korea, and Viet Nam. We're getting ready to do it again. The military has decayed since the Gulf War, decayed badly. The public just doesn't know it. If a substantial war comes, soldiers will, again, die for no reason. Your son could be one of them.

He needs to know this. He also needs to understand that neither the political nor the military leadership much cares whether he lives or dies. Their careers come first. You doubtless think this sounds extreme, embittered, paranoid. And yes, any general officer will tell you that, why, he lives for the troops, cares for nothing else. He's a soldier's general.

Yeah.

In Vietnam, it was for some time military policy that enlisted men in the infantry spent 13 months in the field. Their officers spent six. If you don't believe this, check it out. The officers were getting their tickets punched: Combat command looked good on a promotion record. The Career. On the other hand, if you stayed out there too long, you might get shot. The fleshpots of Saigon were succulent. The consequence of course was that field troops always had green, inexperienced officers.

There were too many ticket-punchers. Officers who won't take the same risks their troops take are. . .I think the word is "cowards."

Guess what generation of officers is now reaching the top at the Pentagon. You don't want this crew commanding your kid.

Further, note that the United States regularly, with the occasional exception, puts politics ahead of the lives of its troops. Remember the 241 Marines killed in Beirut when their barracks was blown up by the terrorist truck? I was there on a story a couple of weeks before it happened. Know who killed those guys?

The United States.

It went like this. Coming down the road from the airport in Beirut, to get to the Marines you turned right on a small road that had a guard post with two Marine guards. Their rifles were at sling arms, no round in the chamber. Loaded rifles might cause an incident, and, hey, you can always get more Marines. Simply driving past the guards would have been--as it turned out, was--effortless.

A few feet later you turned right through one of those flimsy stick things that go up and down to stop traffic at toll booths. I probably could have broken through it without a truck. A few feet later you were in the middle of the Marine position.

Which is what the driver of the suicide truck did. Easy.

The Marines were undefended, naked, in a city known to be full of terrorists. Why? Because the State Department didn't want to look too military. We sacrificed our own men to keep up appearances for a pack of cookie-pushers in Washington.

They'll do it again.

The foregoing is the norm. (We did the same thing in Mogadishu, for example.) Today politicization of the military is worse by far than it has ever been. The emphasis is overwhelmingly on social engineering: sensitivity training, toleration of homosexuals, feminization, promotion of minorities. Affirmative action runs rampant. Standards have been lowered drastically for women, many of them unmarried minorities using the military as an improved form of welfare. Discipline has suffered. Commanders can't discipline the protected groups, which makes it hard to discipline anyone.

If you think I'm kidding, talk to someone you know who is in.

Unsurprisingly, morale is way down. Equipment ages. The services are hemorrhaging young officers in the O-3 range (Army captain). Key enlisted men bail out. Second-raters move up the ranks. No, not all of them are, but too many. In war, there will be a price for this. Your boy, or someone else's. Getting the body bag isn't fun.

For eight years we have had an administration that is actually hostile to the military. This is new. Before, presidents have alternated between neglect and build-up, but haven't had the visceral loathing for the armed services that Clinton has professed. To me, the damage looks deliberate. Nothing like the current wholesale gutting of the services by angry feminists has happened before. We have never had a government that would have allowed it.

The generals know all of this. They're self-serving, but they aren't fools. They are knowingly, willingly, allowing the institutions they oversee to deteriorate, while relentlessly lying to stay in their jobs. (The Marines remain stubbornly resistant, but they too are being slowly Clintoned down.) The brass know their troops regard them with contempt. They know why soldiers bail out. They don't care. Commanders like this--I don't think they can be called men--will preside over a slaughter if war comes.

You don't want your kid there. Especially if he is smart and gung-ho. If he just wants to get saleable training, and get out, the services are probably a good idea. Electronics is always a good choice. The military is a good place for a woman who wants to have her baby and isn't sure which division is the father. But for a young man who wants to be part of something he can be proud of, a hard-charger who sets high standards for himself, it's a bad idea. He'll hate it. It will hate him. Should we ever need the military, it just might kill him. Don't let him do it.

Note: For the skeptical, The Kinder, Gentler Military, by Stephanie Gutmann, superbly details the disaster. Nobody should enlist without reading it. Amazon has it.

Hey, nobody said it was easy.

One son went with the Navy and the other the Marines. Both got out 2 years ago. Both served overseas in Iraq and other places. Both came home safe. The oldest was in the Marines and misses it. He joined US Army National Guard here and is going back to Iraq in April. Am rather proud of both my sons. As far as losing one, I can lose one here to a drunk driver or some other senseless act as easily as I could lose one over there fighting. I never worried about them over there as I knew God is watching over them.

As an aside, the only downside is knowing there are the idiots who spew such drivel as Barak has posted above.

Barak - as someone who served post 9-11 that article is complete BS. Not surprising that a person who has never served and impuned the character of a Marine pilot who had an accident requiring his punch out would cling to it.

I wonder why you felt compelled to post it - it is way outdated (by 7 years at the least) and you have no military experience (none that you have ever said anyway).

You posting on this makes about as much sense as Maser talking about planning a wedding or DFC talking about shooting Booner bears.

Just for the record,I never served.
I wanted to be a Naval Aviator since I watched John Young walk on the moon as a little kid,but when the Navy told me people that wear glasses can't fly fighter jets I decided against it.
I really regret not serving.

my only frame of reference is from vet's I know.

I would encourage my child to enter the military. Both my son and daughter joined not too long out of high school. Les's wife is military. They are all fine upstanding citizens and have a respect for the military and our country.

My daughter has been in the medical area of the AF since she enlisted. She is planning to retire in 5 years. I won't go into what Les was doing as most of you have heard it from him.

I was very surprised my kids, both of them, decided on military careers as they were military brats and a good many of those kids wanted nothing to do with the military after they became adults.

Needless to say GH and I are both very proud of the choices they have made in their lives. The military life is hard for some people but it is as with anything what you make of it!

Air Force...my step son went thru and I have co workers who did other branches..AF has the best facilities..and you usualluy dont go in search of AL...AL Qiueda.

I wanted to go SWCC - imagine my surprise to find out I was color deficient - no go.


SWCC - best kept secret in the Navy

Those guys aren't soft and they sure take it serious...

ETA: Their boats

If I had to do it over again it would be either the Air Force, Coast Guard or Navy. I did the Navy thing, but either the Coast Guard or Air Force would be a good choice also as in anyone of those three you are not automatic cannon fodder and you are apt to learn some kind of trade you can use on the outside after you do your time.

For the reasons stated above I would recommend any one of those three as for the most part you have a bed to come home to every night, not some hole in the ground and people are not out there trying to shoot you.

Basically I'm a coward.

I just retired with 30 years, 28 in the USN. I would NEVER recommend the Navy to anyone today. My brother in law is an enlisted man in the USAF. If you like wearing uniforms but want nothing to do with the military, then either of the above branches will suit him just fine. Can't speak about the US Army, but without reservation, the Marines is the only way to go if he actually wants to be part of an armed force and a warrior ethic. jorge

I'm trying to nudge my lad into the USCG. He'll be 16 this year.

OK.



That is normal.



Great.



He has no idea what he is talking about,



Read my signature if you want my feelings on that.



Tell this young man to talk to somebody else.

I'm pretty sure John Young walked on the moon as an adult but don't quote me on it.

I respectfully disagree. Seen too many Marines that definitely do NOT fit that mold and too many sailors that do. Depends on the individual man and what he pushes himself to be.

I met/served and trained with some guys from the Teams that would take serious exception to you idea that a warrior ethos is lacking in the Navy - again - depends on the man and how he pushes himself. As a certain BM1 (SEAL) explained to me - "Why be a Volkswagen when you can be a Ferrari"

We are trying to point out the highlights of military service to our 16 year old too. A little hard to do when Bammy will let open gays in, but we're trying to highlight the ideas of getting a trade and some college money tucked back. Plus we're looking at thee more semesters of remedial effort.

Regarding Iraq; I don't think its a factor with bammy. He's a pacifist and will have our army out of Iraq too soon anyhow.

Wook

A M E N to that. My nephew is a lifer and he has been in the Balkins, Iraq 3 times and now in the 'stan. If he didn't have so much time in already he would pull the pin. He has spent more time in combat/war zone than fellas from WWII!

I want to see Barney Frank kiss Fred Reed on the lips.

If he's got 20/20 vision have him look at the Army Warrant Officer Flight Program.

The best thing the youngman can do if it's available, is go to college. If he wants to get into ROTC while in college, that great.

Either way it's only four years in college, if he wants to enlist into the Mil. afterward he'll be ahead of the game on others either enlisted or will have the opportunity to gain a warrant or commission rank.

If the kid is bright and not paired up with some nice girl, then I'd start with the AF recruiter. The technical training is excellent and often translates very well to the civilian world. The facilities are built of concrete, have a/c and decent chow.

There are more single women in the Air Force than you'll see in the Army or Marines. This is a factor which is often of interest to a bright young man.

If the young man wants to do his part in combat arms, well, it's hard to fault the Marines. I'd agree that much of the new Army is softer but the combat arms units are a different world from the rest of the Army and plenty hard enough for anyone.

As for risks, the Army loses far more Soldiers to privately owned vehicle accidents each year than they do in Iraq and Afghanistan combined. Admittedly, it is quite a bit more dangerous at the tip of the spear, not so much at the shaft.

Look at what the recruiter can offer based on the young man's asvab scores. Some of the signing bonuses are pretty darned extraordinary.

Got family who now flys Kiowas. He started regular grunt - went Ranger, then Ranger instructor. Turned down chance at the green beanie - wanted to fly and is loving it - best thing that ever happened to him.

Cousin as a damage controlman. Been working on boarding partys in pirate waters - loving every minute of it. Danger factor for sure.

It's all what you make of it.

Like I said,I never served, but my Coast Guard friends say it was the best experiance of thier lives,and they all are in LE now except one that owns a sea tow biz at the Jersey shore.

My Marine friends that were Fire fighters or officers with the Marine's say it was great but are happy to be gone,my friends that were grunt's in the USMC are proud to have served but would'nt go back for anything.

That is the logical thing if he must end up in service. Which by the way ain't all that bad, just under the current conditions I would wait.

I would never discourage anyone from serving, as long as they understand there is a possibility of ending up in combat.

I would have him visit all the recruiters and not make a decision until he does. Starting with the one he is least interested in and ending with the one he is most interested in. That's what I did, almost. I never visited with the marines or Coast Guard. A guy I knew who was in the CG told me go Air Force which is what I did.

If he is thinking about serving one enlistment and then going to collage, again it would be in his interest to check with all branches. In the early 90's the Army and Navy had own collage funds in addition to the GI Bill. A friend from collage was in the Army and had both funds. His monthly payments were almost double mine. I don't know if these programs are still offered. If they are tell him he MUST sing up for them no matter what. When I was in basic the person who gave us the GI Bill briefing and sign-up went through all of the stats showing how people don't use it and blah blah blah... They convinced one of my friends and when he got out he ended up in the NG for the school benefits. His home state had good benefits for NG personnel, I also thought about the ANG while in collage, but the only thing my state offered was a free license plate.

IF I were to do it again I may choose the Navy this time. Maybe see more of the world than Southern NM.

A couple of thoughts. If he has any thought of going to college, I'd advise him to do it first and go for a commission. Not everybody's cup of tea, but something I wish I'd done.

Another suggestion I'd offer is to try to find out what the current promotional opportunities are in the different services in his areas of interest. I was in the Air Force 50 years ago and stayed E-3 for all four years, while our Army and Navy counterparts made rank up the wazoo (I did pretty much what Teal did). I blows me away to see the military service blocks of you guys who made E-5 and above in a four year hitch, especially in the AF. I once told a retired AF officer who knew the intelligence field that we enlisted men who served in the late '50s were the intellectual equivalent of cannon fodder, and he agreed with me. They also discharged us with no GI Bill, although we got picked up retroactively with the 1966 version, which helped me with college. I'm glad the services generally offer better deals nowadays.

Edited to add: I too am leery of what is in store for the military under the Obama administration.

Paul

1. Yes
2. Air Force
3. Because he wants to fly F22's

Been encouraging my wayward daughter to join the army. She needs the discipline and educational opportunity. She's a deadbeat, I'm afraid.

If your son wants to enlist, then I to say for him to choose a particular field, not just a branch to join. If he insists on the Army, tell him to go into the UAV field. It is wide open, and now the AF is even thinking of letting enlisted fly UAV's like the Army does. There are several good career fields in either branch, tell him not to just choose the first one the recruiter offers him. I am partial to the Air Force, as I have 11 years in. I almost joined the Coast Guard, but they closed the recruiters office, and the nearest one from me at the time became Memphis which was a 3 hour drive, so I drove 10 minutes and joined the AF.

I got a chuckle out of that. Sounds like me. I wanted to join the Marines, so I took a bus to the town where the recruiting stations were. The Marine recruiter was out to lunch, so I joined the Air Force with three of my high school buddies. Ah, the mind of a 17 year old!

Paul

If he hasn't got any particular goal in mind such as college or a specific trade apprenticeship it's a lot better then drifting around and letting life happen to him. He'll learn some self discipline, how to get along with a wide variety of people, probably get some travel and possibly get some good training toward a job for when he gets out. He'll gain four years of maturity. He could also make a career of it and there's a lot to be said for that.

I'd advise against The Marine Corps or Army, as another poster said, there's a good chance he'll end up cannon fodder. I think Baraks going to get tested and I'd hate to think of my kid getting killed or maimed for a government run by him and the democrats. I spent four years in the Marine Corps with an infantry mos. Wouldn't trade it for anything; travel, and the feeling you were doing something that counted, got the GI Bill which paid for college and three nothing down home loans. If it was my kid today I'd push for the Air Force, Coast Guard or Navy, better training for civillian jobs and safer. If he still wants the Marine Corps or Army take him for a visit to a VA hospital. Most of those guys didn't think anything was going to happen to them.

+1. Couldn't have said better.

Just reading between the lines, but I see " Mom, I'm gonna be a Marine. (But I know how you are and I'm just easing you into it.)"

Good for him. It's honorable.

Absolutely, I would recomend and encourage joining the military. Research what branch has to offer and make a decision. All branches offer training in something that can be used in a career after getting out. Best training available and a great chance to serve your country.

Mike

Absolutely. There are multiple potential benefits. Service to your country. Learning skills and trades while they are in the service. Great education benefits while serving and after. Retirement benefits at a young age if you opt to stay in for at least 20 years. All this is available to a young person that is willing to apply themself.

Expat

+1 Mike. I joined the Navy and never regretted it. While I did not retire I spent a tad over 10 years in. I knew I wanted to learn a trade and ended up picking electronics. In hind sight that was the best decision I have ever made in my life. I would encourage them to research diligently what they want to do and then pick the branch that will allow them to do that.

Spot on.

Teach them how to be a real Patriot. Have them join the Michigan Malitia or the Montana Malitia. I wish I had,I would be prepared for next Revolution.

- Join the AF
- Pre qualify as an Arabic linguist
- After their 4 year hitch, sign on with a DOD contractor and they'll never need to worry about employment as long as they live(or as long as we support Israel)

Noted. The SEALs are an exception (just like to every rule) as are some Marines. But the Navy today is becoming more and more of a "corporate entity" where business practices rule the roost, discipline is looked down upon to name but a few. Even the SEALS are under attack. There are many in the higher echelons of the Navy that want the SEALS to be more "open" to change (RED: Lower standards so they can get more people in). It's a whole different world today. jorge

i built time in the military. i did very well, stripes wise.

in this day and age, don't join. Ever. that's my opinion, what's yours?

There are AFSC's in the Air Force that make the average Marine look tame and others that resemble country club living. The nice thing about the Air Force, besides getting stationed on the best bases worldwide, is that if you are there to learn a skill, you will spend more time on that skill versus the Army or Marines. The latter consider you a soldier first and a XXXXX second.

I have to say though, last Thursday I flew to Atlanta with a dozen of the 101st who were enroute to Afghanistan. It saddens me to see good young men, some of whom may not come back, serving a CIC that has zero respect for them. Further it saddens me to see 11 of the 12 young men, a demographic that Obama could care less about sending into harms way.

There has been a disparity of too may white boys dying for this country the last 8 years, greatly exceeding their representation of the total population. That's fine when you are serving a man that respects you. But I think it's time Barry's boys start pulling their weight in defending this country. He may actually give a shyt if that is the case.

Here's some good info on what branches are offering as bonuses.



http://www.military.com/recruiting/bonus-center/

That picture is unfortunate..and unfortunately probably real. That said, that fat boy is not an infantryman, Cav Scout, Artilleryman, or combat engineer. However, 73% of the Army's support troops (logistics, personnel, etc.) exist in the Reserve component and if you haven't heard the news, the Army is stressed. If the "Big A" has a string on you, it is going to be pulled and you are going to do your time in the "box" regardless of whether you are fat or skinny. The Army is definitely permitting people to join and re-enlist that they normally would not due to the stress on the force. The guy in the picture is probably a good guy and is probably doing a good job and he is definitely serving his country in a time of war in the middle of the world's sphincter. Still, his weight is WAY out of control and despite that he may be serving admirably, when the wars are over and there are the inevitable force cuts, guys like this that have "discriminators" (over weight, can't pass PT test, etc) will be the first to go.

Expat

Depends on what they want to do. Navy has the best training. USAF has the best quality of life, but slow promotions. Coast Guard is probably a cross between the USAF & USN. I'm biased towards the AF- my 21st anniversary is coming up in a few weeks.

Doesn't the Army enforce an obesity restriction? That boy would have been kicked out of the Air Force already.

True.

AF is basically a 8-4 job. I will say not all AF duty assignments are great. In my 6 years in the AF, I was stationed at an Army base the entire time and my only TDY was on a friggin boat staring at NK.

Go for a technical job because they provide many opportunities with defense contractors when/if they get out.

I've been recommending the Navy to my youngest stepson for a couple of years, now. Hell, I've even encourage the recruiters to lie to him about how great it is - you know, in an indirect way. And they have. He just won't budge.

Warrior ethic be damned. I don't care if he's bored in the service. I just want him out of my checkbook.

- Tom

After looking at that big fella,I'm thinking I might have a chance of joining up and killing a few towel heads before Obooba pulls our troops out of combat. What line do I need to stand in to get my 4xl skivies.

Well said, and applies to much in life.

I with you on that bro! Mine's done an early enlistment in the USMC, but I'm afraid he won't live long enough to get to boot camp. No crap, I don't think Afghanistan is nearly as dangerous as the streets of the USA for some kids. Just my opinion, but I know my kid.

I don't know about that. i spent 3 years on osan Air Base and saw some folks that could have been his sisters and brothers.

Expat

lolol

I went in(enlisted AF) while I was in college because I was a lost idiot and I knew I needed some direction.

Did absolute wonders for me.

that mf'ing godless military-industrial complex that supported that dirty little war in SE Asia is apparently still alive.

i don't have a problem killin' the enemy as needed, but encouraging young (weak) American males to join the military is just, well, Un-American.

put that in your pipe and smoke it.

So we should encourage old weak American males? Or young weak American females?

Do you feel that way because you were a "young (weak) American male" or because you weren't?

Thankyou all,except the knuckleheads (you know who you are)

I know this kid pretty well,he is sharp as a razor and a heck of a football player,doesn't want college but that may change as he get's older.

I think it would be a waste to have him manning a post in the desert,but he's going to do what he want's to do.
I will have him talk with Navy,Coast Guard,and Air Force people I know(no disrespect to the Army or Marines)and I will tell him to talk to all the recruiters to find his niche.

OOHRAH!Devil Dog's!
Beat Army!
Beat Navy!
Go AF!
Anchors away!(I don't know a CG battle cry)
I don't know why but I have alot friends who are Vet's,and I thank them for thier service all the time.

probably i had a choice. to move to Canada, or do my duty, and build time in the US Army. i chose the Army solution, and did very well. i was asked to remain and re=up. No way, Hosea.

the folks i dealt with were first-class. Nothing negative to say about the Lifers. they were well-intentioned.

Vietnam is long past, except for those who still live the horror.

Young men (and women) who choose to volunteer are just that. Volunteers.

Young Men and Women, about 18 or so, are highly vulnerable. to take advantage of their vulnerability is EVIL. can anyone spell evil, or should we go on telling the youngsters that their decisions are very worthy?? what to do with the youngsters? Isn't that always the challenge??

No more solicitation of recruits, without a counter point, is std issue, right?

My son being in the military is far from my first choice... but I would encourage him to have the same attitude that I did, when a military obligation loomed in front of me during the late Vietnam War....

The branch is not as important, as much as what you do with it once in...

I went into the military after college...Vietnam had just ended the previous year, but I still had a deferred draft obligation...

I didn't consider the Marine Corp.. because I consider the Marines as the best.. and lacking no self confidence, I looked at it as I was still not good enough to be a Marine....

so my goal was what I considered second best at the time... Special Forces, US Army....I grew up around Green Berets from 14 to 18 yrs old, as a military dependent. We had a batch of them that were advisors to our Scout Explorer Post.. former Eagle Scouts, not really that much older than we were, but ALL with Nam Combat time...

When I went in 1976, I went in with the Reserves.. and applied and got excepted for the Army's Longest Medical Course: 91 C
It was a year long and they normally graduated about 15 to 20% of the starting class... my aptitude test scores were 147 out of 160 max...

My goal was to get and receive all the medical training that I could receive... so that I had that when I ended up in a combat zone..

I also applied and was allowed to attend the 300 F med course for Green Berets...

My plans afterwards to go active and join the Green Berets and get jump qualified, and also cross trained as a small weapons specialist..

Right before I ETSed back to the Reserves, I had the opportunity to do so, with both the Green Berets and the Rangers at Ft Lewis, both offering me a double jump in Rank, if I would just sign up...

Like a Friggin Moron, I balked, because I had decided I want to go to Physician Assistance School instead, and move to Montana or Alaska after graduating...

I ended up in MN in the Guard, and had the opportunity once again and signed up for the schools to be part of Green Beret Reserve Unit...well now being married, I fell on the wrong side of the funding issues.. and my request for Jump School and GB training was denied...

I applied several more times before finally just getting out in 1983..Nothing was happening world wide, so the money was just not being allocated....
I look at it as a opportunity, that I stupidly let slip thru my hands...

and if my son finds himself with a military obligation, my recommendations would be exactly what I tried to do and should have done...

I probably would have gone reserve status, but I wish I would have been able to serve my country during the Gulf War in 91..

and if I was a younger man now, I would have volunteered to serve it in Afghanistan...

If I would have used my head and stayed with it... I would probably be some of grissled first sgt with some guard unit...

I regret not staying with the Reserves all of those years..

I really wish the US Military mirrored the Swiss Army.. where everyone from aged 18 to 60 is a Reserve Soldier...

Not only would we have a stronger country, we'd have a lot less Juevenile Delinquents, and our society wouldn't be full of such pussies and wimps...

If I could go back into the Reserves now and still do nothing more than work in the Hospitals as a corpman, supporting our guys coming back from the Mid East.. I'd darn sure do that in a heart beat...

it definitely isn't the money.. it is serving your country.. and the even greater honor being in the medical corp, of serving those who have put their asses on the firing line... and have paid a physical price in doing so......

To me, regardless of one's accomplishments in life.. no greater honor can a young man embrace than doning a uniform and serving this country.....

Liberals don't get it... soldier don't serve this country to kill...
they serve this country to protect.....

to protect and preserve everything those liberals abuse or neglect or take for granted...

because someone else paid the price for them...

My Grandson wants to join after Graduation this Spring.I put 6 years in The Navy and think The Service makes a young man grow.How ever,I am trying to talk him out of doing it under Obamas administration.I have even offered him assistance finacially to go continue his education.I hope I can make him understand why it would not be good to serve under a President who is trying to tear down out Country.

I was a 91C also. You forgot to mention the co-ed barracks and nurses.

Only for tittless WAFS........................................

It's an interesting thread. The vast majority are supportive of the young man joining the service and I count myself among them. The you have the predictable Barak trotting out the even more predictable Fred Reed as people that, as usual, bring nothing but noise and no signal to the issue (and I have no idea WTF Gus is taling about). You also have some people that want to ensure you know what your getting into, I'll add my voice to theirs.

I loved the Navy I joined in 1985 and do not miss the Navy I retired from in 2007. That being said I heard the same thing from my seniors when I was an Ensign. The military changes with the winds of politics and 99% of the time it is not better for the mission. Unfortunately that won't change.

With regard to service selection there is no easy answer. Each service is a wide variety of personalities, roles, and cultures. It's easy to mock the chair force but I would say a USAF Para Rescue is the quite the equal of any of the other special force in discipline and training for their role but bears little resemblance to the USAF E-3 serving in a staff position at DFAS. Each of the services has similar dichotomies across their disciplines.

That being said, there are some generalities that can be made. The USAF is generally highly specialized among their NEC equivalents. You are extremely well trained on a particular aspect of your job and you will be darn sure of what you are doing because of that training. The Navy/USMC does a very good job with training, particularly in the technical tasks and you will often get the opportunity to get more training to specialize a bit more but you will often be placed in positions that require initiative and learning on your own to cover the much broader tasks you may face. An example is back when the USAF flew the EF-111 and we flew the EA-6B. My Aviation Electronic Technicians were responsible for every box in the jet including the ALQ-99 and HARM missile systems where the USAF techs were each specialized in the radios, the jamming transmitters etc. They were actually admitted they were quite bored. My AT's may have been something but they weren't bored . I also believe we give our junior sailors, often starting at the E-3 level more opportunity to start to learn leadership. So, I'm really only qualified to comment on the air side of the Navy/Marine team vs the USAF and there is no doubt that the USAF provides a much more stable homelife and a well defined career path and they do have some really great hunting and fishing bases (no minor matter!) compared to the Navy at times but I believe a career in the Navy (as I said the air side anyway) would have a more maturing role than the USAF.

You also need to be aware that with the military is now often a blended team and just because you are a USAF member you are just as likely to end up with a tour in some garden spot. One of my coworkers, a Navy Reserve 0-6, former submarine officer just returned from a 12 month savings plan in Iraq. My Cousin, a Navy Reserve Aviation Bosun mate Chief got back in time for deer season last year from spending a year there leading a mixed service team running refueling and rearming services at a forward operating location. If you're in the CG you may well end up doing customs or port security work in Basra.

So, I'll come down on the plus side and say that military service can be a great experience and regardless of what they choose, will be a defining time of their life. While I do not believe that we should have a national draft, I do believe that when we did it was a defining and joining common experience among males. It's a shame we lost that experience.

To close on a lighter note I always enjoyed this little story on the differences between the the USAF and the USN.

USN or USAF? by Bob Norris
Bob Norris is a former Naval aviator who also did a 3 year exchange tour flying the F-15 Eagle. He is now an accomplished author of entertaining books about US Naval Aviation including "Check Six" and "Fly-Off". Check out his web site at his web site. Click Here. In response to a letter from an aspiring fighter pilot on which military academy to attend, Bob replied with the following.

12 Feb 04

Young Man,

Congratulations on your selection to both the Naval and Air Force Academies. Your goal of becoming a fighter pilot is impressive and a fine way to serve your country. As you requested, I'd be happy to share some insight into which service would be the best choice. Each service has a distinctly different culture. You need to ask yourself "Which one am I more likely to thrive in?"

USAF Snapshot: The USAF is exceptionally well organized and well run. Their training programs are terrific. All pilots are groomed to meet high standards for knowledge and professionalism. Their aircraft are top-notch and extremely well maintained. Their facilities are excellent. Their enlisted personnel are the brightest and the best trained. The USAF is homogenous and macro. No matter where you go, you'll know what to expect, what is expected of you, and you'll be given the training & tools you need to meet those expectations. You will never be put in a situation over your head. Over a 20-year career, you will be home for most important family events. Your Mom would want you to be an Air Force pilot...so would your wife. Your Dad would want your sister to marry one.


Navy Snapshot: Aviators are part of the Navy, but so are Black shoes (surface warfare) and bubble heads (submariners). Furthermore, the Navy is split into two distinctly different Fleets (West and East Coast). The Navy is heterogeneous and micro. Your squadron is your home; it may be great, average, or awful. A squadron can go from one extreme to the other before you know it. You will spend months preparing for cruise and months on cruise. The quality of the aircraft varies directly with the availability of parts. Senior Navy enlisted are salt of the earth; you'll be proud if you earn their respect. Junior enlisted vary from terrific to the troubled kid the judge made join the service. You will be given the opportunity to lead these people during your career; you will be humbled and get your hands dirty. The quality of your training will vary and sometimes you will be over your head. You will miss many important family events. There will be long stretches of tedious duty aboard ship. You will fly in very bad weather and/or at night and you will be scared many times. You will fly with legends in the Navy and they will kick your ass until you become a lethal force. And some days - when the scheduling Gods have smiled upon you - your jet will catapult into a glorious morning over a far-away sea and you will be drop-jawed that someone would pay you to do it. The hottest girl in the bar wants to meet the Naval Aviator. That bar is in Singapore.

Bottom line, son, if you gotta ask...pack warm & good luck in Colorado.

Banzai

PS Air Force pilots wear scarves and iron their flight suits.

well, we've got the pro-military here, and we've got the others.
nothing wrong with being militaristic if one is looking for a regular check and security.

on the other hand, if there's not an enemy set to kill you, why be there?

the folks i worked with, good people, were all Lifers. Know what Lifer means, anyone??

it's a job, nothing more, nothing less.

if you need a job, and can't find one in the private sector, then join the Military. Draftees are there too. so, don't discount them.

Bear,

I was a long course charlie.... not the short course...

I did mine at Madigan...

As far as co-ed barracks and nurses.. we had no co ed barracks...

plus our fannies were on duty from 5 am to about 1 am 5 days a week...

we started out with 7 guys and 93 women...
that sounds great for anyone .. until they been one of 7 guys around 93 women!
surrounded by conversations about kids, periods, best dance clubs, and what docs were HOT.... you'd only stay sane if you were gay... ( and I wasn't)....

despite that, it was still a heck of a lot better being student status in the army, that the five years of college I had previously completed...

between all the food in the hospital.. and then the first sgt over at the Rondo Pit ( chow hall open from 8 PM to 8AM) thinking we were Doctors from talking all that medical stuff...you couldn't beat the eats...

you can't beat the Army Medical Corp for training, unless you were strictly a 91 Bandaid..

course you know that stuff...

I'll have to disagree. I'd recommend the navy Seabees. I used to be one stationed in Morocco & at NAS Corpus Christi. My time in the Seabees is still shaping my ethics today.

I musta worked with Oscar Madison's cause the pilots and WSO's I worked with didn't iron their flight suits. You were lucky if they got the German mustard cleaned off.

Like saluting, the scarves are a throw back to the first pilots with open cockpits. I still have my squadron scarf from the 26 TRS, a pilot gave me.

GFAC's and ETAC's are two more Air Force AFSC's along with CSAR's that will match Marines for cahones, not to forget Weasel, Warthog, Spectre drivers on the pilot side. If you don't have brass ones, you don't want those jobs.

Gus, you're attitude is exactly the same as the best man I know, my father. He served in the USN during WWII, where he was a gunner on a destroyer. He discouraged me from joining the armed forces, making me the only male in the family ,in three generations, that didn't. I regret that I didn't. That said, I don't doubt that his sacrafice to his country had some part in making him a great man. I suspect the same of you.

"so my goal was what I considered second best at the time... Special Forces, US Army...."

I have a hard time figuring out who Army Special Forces is "second best" behind. There are some other special operating forces that are now more high speed, but NONE of the conventional forces of ANY of the services are better than Army SF.

Expat

My son was in the AF Security Forces. He had a beer at an off base party at the age of 20 yrs and 10 months. He was asked by his Commanding Officer if he was at the party. He answered in the affirmative. The 2nd question was "Ya don't want to lawyer up do ya?" The answer was " no Sir". He was then asked if he had anything to drink. He replied " I had a beer". The end result was a ban on driving on base for 1 year for a party he walked to. Oh, can't drive you can't do your job. Can't do your job we will get you out. He was given a general discharge with honorable conditions when all of his reviews had been exceptional up to that point. This happened in 2006. His take on things is "That's what honesty and integrity get's you in today's military".
Your mileage may vary but expect him to get lied to by his recruiter and others. I would advise anyone with any gumption at all to look elsewhere. Obviously your mileage is different than mine.

some of us males have to get pretty old, or long in the tooth to talk about our youth.

nothin' wrong with defending our livable space. but, when it comes time to follow, mindlessly, the current politicians in office, it becomes a bit more problematic. Johnson wanted guns & butter both, a great society and the war in se asia. what a joke. and he ruined, yes, ruined many lives because of it. i'm still mad as Hell over it. but, 40 years later, i can see that some folks wants to make the military their career. No problem. we need dedicated folk.

but, we don't need to pressure young men and women into uniform. it should be a purely voluntary experience. Nothing else.

Yes, the military does help young men and women to mature. Of course, they're going to mature anyways, sooner or later.

May the God of all be on our side.

"Can't speak about the US Army, but without reservation, the Marines is the only way to go if he actually wants to be part of an armed force and a warrior ethic. jorge"

That Warrior ethic definitely still exists in the Army's combat arms occupational skills and its brigade combat teams. And that ethic is intensified in the BCTs of such divisions of the 82nd and 101st Airborne Divisions and others such as the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd Infantry divisions.

Expat

Joe: When did you leave the Service? IF it was prior to say, 1996, it's a different world. Hell I JUST left it! jorge

Spoken like a true patriot. Now I will give you the perspective as the father of a wayward youth. My son (18) needs to go. Not all of them do. But mine does. He needs adventure, responsibility and freedom. He also needs structure and direction. He wants to be Marine. I'll support anything he want's to do that is honorable.

Another example of the changes in the service IMO. In my day, not that long ago, his chit to live off base would have been revoked. He would have moved back in the barracks and he would have walked to work and his car would have been stored off base. Problem solved, good airman still an asset to the service. Didn't want to reenlist? You can make that decision when your contract is up.

That's pathetic, but the Security Police have a lot of people that are anal jerks looking to be anal jerks as cops later (not trying to start a cop bashing thread but that is my experience in the AF). The Security Police is pretty different from most of the Air Force.

Unfortunately, incriminating yourself to any police officer, military or civilian can be a gamble that that individual isn't a letter of the law type.

My immediate family has strong ties to the Marine Corps.

I would recommend them to anyone. I have always been able to say that I believe you will most appreciate being a Marine when you are in a combat area.

If you don't want to serve that is fine with us. We have long been a volunteer force and who wants to serve with someone who doesn't want to be there?

Uncle, father-in-law, brother-in-law,myself, son-in-law, son and adopted son. Several others were also influenced that way.

They have been grunts, air controllers, mechanics, Am-trac drivers, ordinance men, anti-aircraft warfare electronic operators, PMI's, radio operators, mechanics, musicians and in force recon. Only one has been a career Marine.

The Marine Corps has its own construction battallions, artillery, armor , etc. and is capable of operating without assistance from the other forces. I like that aspect.

We have had other family members in the Air Force, Army and Navy. I have nothing but praise for all of them. If their missions or methods suit your personality so be it. Personally, I don't care for the open ocean, or the confines of a submarine though I dove for some time.

We join to get away from home, get an education, get funding for an education, to see if we can do it and many other reasons .

Most of all we join because we love this country and want to give back to it. Political leaders come and go but without our military I believe we wouldn't exist as a nation and that would be a bad thing.

Semper Fi

I'm partial to the Marines. I had 9 outstanding years wearing the uniform. IMO, I wouldnt condemn any branch, including the coastguard. they all have a place and function in this world.

As for recruiters, I think I had the only honest one. Mine wouldnt let me sign up. Even my folks were pressuring him (I was a problem child and heading for a certain death). He ignored them and told me to think about it. He didnt BS me on my MOS pick.

My folks look at me now, 10 years after I got out and they just shake there head. From a kid that was going downhill real fast with drugs and alcohol to what I have now, they cant believe it.

Nothing wrong with the military, I wouldnt talk anybody out of it. I would make sure they know what they want before signing the papers.

A shipmate of mine got caught drinking underage in the off base enlisted club. Shore Patrol hauled him back to the boat. The CO met them on the pier and asked what the offense was. The told him and he said, "Do you know how many men under the age of 21 we lost in Vietnam?"

The Shore Patrol PO didn't know, the Captain told him and then said, "Don't ever bring any of my men in for this offense again".


I got stopped at the gate between Pearl Harbor Naval Base and the airforce base next door. I'm sure it has a name but it wasn't important enough for me to remember. We'd had a softball tournament over there and I had a half full beer in the cup holder in my van. I had to wait for the base police to show up and then they wrote me up for open container and let me go.

I'm sure the chit showed up at the boat and I'm really sure the XO just tore it up because I didn't hear a word about it.

Things sure are different now days.

This one's been chewed on a time or two around here:

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=21&Number=2230286

Having not read the four pages of this post, only the OP, I would have to ask, do you trust the commander in chief? Do you trust the government? I would never have considered this in the past but this, in my heart, is a different time and things are changing fast.

g

I have been wondering what you were up to. I knew you retired in Dec & haven't seen you posting much since then.

I got out in Sept. 1977. Elmo Zumwalt was CNO when I was in. I realize it is a different world now but I believe the Seabees still have the right stuff.

My brother is currently a MA chief and he tells me some of the horror stories of today's quality of sailors.

Jorge I salute you for doing 30 years and making Captain.

I believe that would be Hickam(sp?) AFB.

Get a school in writing if he is focused on learning an employable skill. Right out of basic and into the classroom saves a lot of heartache and wasted time.

Before I turned 21 I was operating generators and switchgear that would power a small city, as the only electrician on watch, in 60 ft swells. I had training and journeyman experience and have never lacked for a job since.

Navy and Air-Force have great schools.

It would be hard to salute that communist, I don't think I could do it... something to consider.

But hey...

I lived my life, what is a young person to do???


As it stands now, there is NO WAY I would join under that communist so called commander in chief bastard.

Does a person join to serve the country or serve the commander in chief? Our military is unique in that we swear to support and defend the constitution...an idea upon which the country was founded. We don't pledge allegiance to a king, queen, or any single person. I like to believe the idea that is America is quite larger than whomever is the current stiff in the White House.

SD

I understand, so if the commander in chief is anti-constitution?
Not an easy choice.
Someone may make that choice..

g

I would recommend it, I wouldn't be where I am today without it. Just make sure that they do a little bit of research and find something that is marketable on the outside world. I got into satellite communications with the Army at 17 and have been doing it for 10 years now. Never looked back.

Lots of good points made here, and I too am worried about bammy as CIC. I am now in the reserves, and wonder every day what will happen.

With that said, I still encourage anyone to join. But it should be his choice, with no pressure either way from his parents.

As far as getting a MOS that transfers to civilian life, its a trade off. I was an artillery and naval gunfire scout observer (forward observer in civilian lingo). Not much civilian demand for that. Aircraft mechanic and things like that are in more demand.
However, there is nothing like the pride of a combat arms MOS. I wouldn't change my 4 active duty years in the Marines for anything, even if it would help me get a better job after college.

A DD214 on your resume can't hurt, regardless of branch or MOS. Especially gov jobs and that 5-10 points vets preference.

MOS 68A - Biomedical Equipment Specialist is one of the best MOS..takes a smart cookie :-)

Any communications, electronics, or info-tech is good experience and training for the economy.

I am not anti-military, never meant to leave that impression.

g

I haven't gone to college yet, but still work for NASA. All because of my MOS choice when I joined up. I was in the 101st for a while, so I know how the combat MOS's feel about things as well.

+100 on that. I was in during Carter. The military was screwed up beyond belief. This is likely to be worse

Would you encourage someone to join? Absolutely, no reservations. I would also encourage him/her to serve his initial tour and get the heck out.

If they desire a specific civilian career, and there is a military job of any service that directly furthers that civilian career, then go for it.

If he (note "HE") wants to be a warrior, go Infantry. Airborne. Even better, the Ranger Regiment. Don't d%ck around with some middle ground - either learn a marketable trade, and a future career, or be a warrior. The Army now allows direct enlistment to Special Forces (18X) - but he better be very mature and have his sh$# wired tight, physically and mentally, or he and/or they will decide he could best serve his country elsewhere.

Just my $.02

G, I never took your post as anti-military. I just think back to (and borrow my Platoon Leader speeches from) very many very dark days in uniform under Clinton. We got through it by focusing on the big picture and the long term. CINCs and their policies, good and bad, come and go. They leave an imprint on the service, policies and operations but deep down I think most people serve for reasons bigger than any good or harm the CINC can do.

Besides, working for a POS boss and keeping yourself motivated by knowing deep down that you're doing right is a valuable skill in both military and civilian worlds.

SD

Have him read through this soldier's blog before he makes his decision.

http://armyofdude.blogspot.com/

An excerpt:

I am writing to you on behalf of Steve Lewey, one of Illinois' bravest sons. Steve grew up in a working class family not too far from your old stomping grounds of Chicago. He did well in high school and went on to college to study architectural design. After realizing he and his parents could not afford to continue his education, Steve enlisted in the United States Army at the age of nineteen. He did so not only for education benefits but to satisfy the intense need to serve his country in a time of war. As an infantryman, Steve completed a fifteen month tour in 2007, distinguishing himself in the Battle of Baqubah, the deadliest battle of the surge. In one instance, after an insurgent attack claimed the life of our comrade, Steve completely exposed himself to enemy fighters by climbing on top of a Stryker vehicle and firing at three insurgents, killing them instantly. On a dirty and blood-soaked street in Iraq, no one seemed to notice the kid from Chicago in an act of remarkable gallantry. Many of my fellow soldiers are walking examples of his bravery - without his incredibly selfless act, more American soldiers would have surely fallen in that battle.

With his GI Bill in hand, Steve left the service after an extended combat deployment and headed back home to Chicago in the winter of 2007. Filled with the fire of discipline and motivation he found in the Army, he settled into a job and waited patiently for the new GI Bill to become law. He wanted to finish the schooling he started so many years ago. That dream came to an abrupt end late last month when he came home to find a thick brown envelope on his doorstep. Inside were instructions on where to report for medical screening for a deployment back to Iraq.

For combat veterans, the task of integrating back into society has been a difficult journey as old as war itself. From Odysseus to eighteen year old soldiers coming from the battlefields of Iraq and Afghanistan, the path to normalcy is wrought with post traumatic stress and a disconnect between soldiers and their civilian counterparts. The added weight of a potential involuntary recall is more undue pressure on the fragile mind of combat veterans. Army career counselors exacerbate the duress with threatening phone calls and ominous visits to the homes of veterans, suggesting recall is a certainty if they don't join the Guard or Reserves. For Steve and over 20,000 inactive soldiers across the country, their worst fears have been realized in the form of mobilization orders. For them it's another crushing defeat in an already burdensome mission to find peace after war.

Have to agree on the joint serving with Pugs. I was Navy, after basic I went to an Army installation, then an Air Force one and final duty station was Air Force. I served purple my whole time.

I will say this - given that experience, the Navy and USMC does put a lot of responsibility into younger enlisted's hands much quicker. Were I looking to shape someone up - give them responsibility and make them accountable.

We aren't as top heavy as the other branches. Had a Marine O-3 tell me once that the Army has more Captains than the Marines has officers. From the numbers I saw - I would believe it.

WyoJoe - I went thru basic with Elmo Zumwalt's great grand nephew - talk about pressure - every hunk of brass visited out area to talk to the kid about his family.

I haven't been able to read the entire thread but I just wanted to say that the USMC or Coast Guard would be a fine choice. But I wouldn't push the kid one way or the other. If he feels the need to achieve the title of Marine I would let him.

The OP is right about locking in the MOS.


Travis

To encourage any person to consider serving his country, avoid any of Bristoe's posts.....you sit tight B, our military will take care of you.


Volunteer means they can opt out whenever they wish. However, I imagine the next 4 years will be easier for GI's.

I thought about this thread a lot last night. (Having a son that is leaving for San Diego in a couple of months will do that to you.) There have been a lot of mature, educated opinions posted here. The problem is that 18 year olds don't tend to think that way. Lots of them just want to leave home and "hunt Hadji". Considering the USMC at this time in history is fairly indicative of that attitude.

Good for him.. Hmm, weather must have changed since I was there.. I froze my azz off the entire time I was there. 60s daytime, 40s nights, with fog so dense you couldn't see past your nose.. Even got an inch of snow on the deck of the Redfish one February day in '68.. But I digress...

Yep.. Go NAVY.. A military career can be a-ok, and remember that P-BO's time is limited to a maximum of 8 years (unless they ram through the legislation that makes him 'KING'..) At least it's gainfull employment with no layoffs.. In today's economic picture, that's worth a ton..

If he doesn't mind being enclosed, check out submarines.. Just one comment from an experienced ex-sailor.. Find the smallest boat/ship to serve on.. The smaller they are, the more relaxed the rules are.. Worst duty is on a carrier..

FWIW..

But in any case, my very best wishes to the young person..

Translation:

Don't allow them to make an informed decision.

I served in the Army Field Artillery and it was definitely a good decision. I am glad that I served my country. Beyond that I learned a great deal, grew some, and had the opportunity to do many things that I would otherwise never have done.

Yes, there is risk associated with the military, including getting killed or injured. Outside of the combat arms (infantry in particular), that risk falls dramatically. And there is also the risk that the skills one learns are not applicable to the civilian world. (Hunting down and killing somebody is not in such great demand in the civilian world.)

If those risks are concerns, go into one of the support branches and learn a good trade or skill. The military will train the service member in a lifetime employable skill, provide years of experience, and pay a salary as well.

One also learns how to work in a large organization and deal with co-workers. Schools don't teach these skills.

Certainly, it is not for everyone. Particularly those who are not going to handle the socialization of working in groups of people well. But for most, it is a worthwhile experience.

Chuck

Yes.

I'd say to get a 4 yr degree, get a comission, and join the USAF. Yes, there is PC and BS, but I experienced a LOT less PC and BS in the USAF than I have in the corporate world. Further, at least with my fellow aviators--officer and enlisted and from ALL the services--there are almost no deadbeats. I can't say that about the coporate wrold........................

Bristoe, your articles are inaccurate, unapplicable, and irrelevant as is your opinion.

Advice I can give to this young man: choose the USMC or USCG and know what job or field you want before you talk to a recruiter. Ensure that the recruiter understands that you won't sign a dang thing until you get exactly what you want on the contract. If the recruiter tells you that there are no open slots for what you want, tell him you'll wait until he has something for your.

If you're looking for the "mama, chevy, and apple pie American tradition," stick with the Marine Corps or Coast Guard. It seems that as time continues, some of the other branches have lost their reverence for tradition and preservation of identity (Army) or have never been able to develop an identity in the first place (Air Force). Both the Corps and the Coast Guard have tough boot camps that will make this young man earn his place, nothing of which is more satisfying. The Marine Corps and the Coast Guard have not forgotten themselves, and therefore have not lost sight of what is important in a fighting force and their communities are still small enough that the left hand can still see what the right hand is doing.

What this young man will earn cannot be measured in dollars, he will be provided with a strong, solid base from which to build the rest of his life.

My opinion hasn't been given.

Please point out the inaccuracies that you claim are in the posted article.

Anyone who is considering the military route should be made aware of the multiple deployment situation which exists today.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2008-08-14-veterans-mental_N.htm

In a typical unit headed to Iraq, 60% are on their second, third or fourth deployment, lasting about a year each, says U.S. Army Col. Carl Castro, who directs a medical research program at Fort Detrick, Md.

At a crisis hotline for veterans, about 75% of the 400 calls a weekcome from Reserve and National Guard troops or their families, says Shad Meshad, president of the National Veterans Foundation (1-888-777-4443), which runs the line. "Many have been sent back three or four times," he says.

My #2 son passed his physical yesterday and will go to boot camp on May 27, 2009. (US Army) I am proud and, as a parent, worried, too. Who wouldn't be? But, like all service members he will be lifted up in the prayers of countless Americans.

Congratulations to your son! Wishing him the very best!

Too many to enumerate. Basically that "adapting" syndrome is something that the liberals love to broadcast. What they fail to mention is the percentage is so minuscule it's statistically insignificant. Bottom line is that recruiting remains on or above target goals (yes they've missed a few months), but more importantly "re-ups" of folks who've been there-several times-- remains at an all time high. jorge

I like flyboys. They take the real soldiers to where the fighting is and come back and get them afterwards.

I was in the Field Artillery. I enjoyed my time in the Army. It was mostly good and I had great friends. I wouldn't be particullarly excited about having a child go in today because quite frankly, I wouldn't want them to go to Iraq or Afghanistan.

However, what concerns me more and what would really concern me if I were thinking of getting in again today is that with the economic situation deteriorating steadily here in the U.S., I think it is very likely that in the next five years or so, our military is going to be used to do some pretty unpleasant duty here at home. Will it? Maybe, maybe not. I'm sure some will refuse. But were it me, I would think long and hard before I put myself in a situation where I might have to make a choice like that.

Damn, that is funny, and hits home a bit as a Soldier I've seen a lot of that in the reserves and nasty guard.

The Army's been great for me, spent some time active and now am a reservist.

Depending on what the kid wants to get out of the military there are pros and cons in each service.

That Army chow must be pretty good!

A family member went in the navy and had a great recruiter, very few lies. The problem was that a Filipino chief had a grudge for new enlisted white boys and went out of his way to make life a living hell for him, when he wouldn't put out. He tried the chain of command and it crapped on him. Not just once or twice, either. He tried everything he knew without luck and ended up on the pier watching his ship pull out. When dumped, he lost almost everything he owned to thieves and was not given a ticket home, just stuck on the pier. Not hearsay, I read the paperwork and paid for the ticket home. he wasn't perfect or completely free of blame but I wouldn't suggest the navy to anyone, ever. I am retired USAF and have worked with numerous fabulous navy folks. His story wasn't unusual. I would suggest the AF or the Coast Guard, assuming the youngster gets his schooling and assignments in writing.

That story is more than a little unusual.

Reminds me of one of my co-workers. What's long, hard and full of seamen?

I've heard 'em all....all the buttons in the back jokes, seafood jokes, etc.

My Dad was a gunner in McArthur's fleet.

He lost some hearing....good man. And one hail of a generation.


I wonder what it would take for America to commit to victory like our parents did? In general, we've become puzzified......

You bet. The best man I know, bar none, and he lost all hearing.

If the kid isn't much for school, I'd say the military is a very viable option. Going to college now means 50-100K in debt easily, and no guarantee of a job when you graduate (especially for a lot of Arts & Sciences degrees). If you get a job straight out of high school, you're going to be someone's dog and probably not make a good dollar. Even in the trades more and more kids are doing the tech school route. If that isn't his cup 'o tea, let him sign up, just make sure he knows what he wants to do in the service.

This thread sort of makes me laugh because when I joined the Marine Corps I didn't say a word to anybody until I cleared MEPPS.

The look on my parent's face was priceless when I walked through the door (nobody knew where I'd been the past 16 hours) and told them I had joined the Marines!!!

My mom just looked terribly confused, and my dad looked like he had just won the lottery.

Who honestly gives a [bleep] what anybody thinks when they are that age? I will always encourage my kids to go to college, but in the end, they're gonna do what they feel they need to do.


Travis

Also, my best friend is an MP in the Marine reserves, along with another high school bud. The first enjoys it but hates the reserves, the second just hates it period, I think. Both wish they'd have done enlisted over reserves, FWIW.

My roommate and closest college bud did the Marine OCS the past two summers. He's graduating in May with a BS in Mechanical Engineering and wants to be commissioned in infantry or artillery. The other roommate will be graduating with a BS in Electrical Engineering and I believe has signed the papers to do the Air Force, he wants to work on planes I guess. Lots of good opportunities in the military, I think the most important part with the present economy is job security.

Personally, I sometimes wish I'd have chose to do the military thing over college, though I'm at the point now where it's probably not for me.

Re-upping doesn't require "adapting". And adapting today means finding a decent job in an economy that's spitting out 500,000+ layoffs per month

Still,..you didn't address the issue of forced deployment of reservists who have already done one or more tours in Iraq or Afghanistan.

Don't regret it Scorpion. College is a good thing and I'm sure you'll find you're way into what you want to do.

I loved the Marine Corps, but I had many close friends that only tolerated it.

BTW, reservists always regret not being active duty.


Travis

Bristoe,

There is NO doubt that many, many reservists are pissed about the constant deployment. But most active duty guys ("lifers") could give two schits about re-deployment. IME


Travis

Travis,

Thanks, I'm not overly worried about being unemployed after graduation, though the positions are definitely less than in the past since the economy sucks. If it gets turned around, there will be plenty of jobs in fixing the infrastructure. Only thing I regret is that the military would be much more exciting.

The Marines surely aren't for everyone, and I couldn't imagine liking the reserves much myself. I think it mainly bugs them because they kinda "live two lives" doing their civilian thing through the week, then drive 100 miles and play Marines for two days without getting much compensation for it.

Simply, no!

One thing that I haven't seen addressed, is that some men are just meant to be warriors. Thanks for your service.

First off, let me just say that all you guys who have served your country have my deepest respect, admiration, and thanks.

I can only boast that I am the first generation in 300 years of my family not to have served in a major conflict. My graduating class (1976) was one of only 2 years that didn't have to register for a draft. In most every one of these conflicts, I had kin on both sides:

WWI, WWII, US Civil War, American Revolution, 7 Year's War, Franco-Prussian War, etc.

Just with the German side of the family, we had:

1) A branch of the family who were conscripted and sent to America as mercenaries-- they defected to the Patriots at their first opportunity and got land in the NW Territory as a reward.
2) My Grandfather was in WWI from 1916 to the finish. The only reason he survived was because his head was too big to fit in a gas mask and kept being sent back to the rear.
3) His nephew was a fighter pilot on the Russian Front and was shot down in Soviet territory. He escaped, only to be shot by the Gestapo when he got back across the lines.
4) An attack of strep throat kept my father from going to Okinawa, where his unit was chewed up. He had to repeat basic training, and ended up being shipped to Korea for mop-up operations instead.

Therefore, my advice to my sons is this: If your country needs you, do not hesitate to serve and serve well. However, If you ever find yourself in uniform with a rifle in your hands, taking incoming fire from the enemy, you must assume that your career has taken a severe wrong turn. Plan accordingly.

I have encouraged my niece to join the Coast Gaurd.... One of the main reasons is that they tend to have more direct contact in "helping people in trouble" on a day in day out basis.... And you can point to one specific incident and say "I made a difference in that persons life" more easily than in some of the other armed forces....

. . oh, and one other thing. Dad and I were talking about this very subject the other day. Dad was proud to have served in WWII-- he's young enough that he might last to be the oldest survivor of that conflict. He says that's his goal.

When his first hitch ended, he was a Sargent in a peacetime army. He had the job of "Sparky" on M*A*S*H-- the guy Radar talked to back at battalion. His superiors kept strong-arming him to reenlist, and would not take no for an answer. Finally Dad told an officer where he could stick the re-enlistment bonus and got to go home.

If he had opted to stay in, he would have been 2 months shy of leaving when the communists overran the South. He would have ended up on the Pusan Perimeter and been kept in for the duration of the conflict.

GO ARMY! Perhaps the Army is getting soft but I was in from 87-92, did my turn in the big sandbox, got my trigger time and enjoyed the devil out of it. IF not for my wife, I would have been a lifer!

GO ARMY !!! Had a great time, met great people, learned a valuable skill and it was a life changing experience. My nephew
went Navy, went in as an immature kid, came back from the Gulf as a mature young man with clear goals and direction. His father was an Army Intel guy (MAJ), his other uncle is Army Infantry (CPT)and me the medical puke. He was well aware of the possibilities of deployment even though his recruiter told him his overseas duty would be Italy (we all laughed at this). His one disappointment as a Construction guy (don't think they call them Sea-Bees any more do they?) was that civilian contractors did all the constuction so they ran convoys through IED Alley.
He is hoping to be deployed to Afganistan next year and is all
fired up. Presidents come and go, they either respect the troops or they don't, but the charecter of our young men will
show through all the other BS and we should all be damn proud
that we played a part in developing that charecter.

I was Army too, from '02-06 and got out as an E-5. I joined when I was 18, didn't really live life up until then. It was the best decision that I have ever made, hands down.

The Army is not a bad organization, they actually impressed me a lot more than many places have since then. I was a 19K, combat tanker, and served in a support platoon, tank company, and a personnel section. I knew good and not-so-good people from pretty much every background. I served in Germany, Iraq, Korea, and Cali. A lot of memories and a lot of lessons that I still apply now.

IME the Army is a very professional and dedicated group of people. That picture of the incredibly fat Army soldier standing by the squared-away-looking Marine officer is not typical. I wasn't in lights-out shape, but I could pass my PT test and looked pretty reasonable. I can still run 6 miles and would probably smoke most of you in that distance. I still look like I did then, receding hairline notwithstanding.

I left the Army with about $40k saved up and a car, but there was so much that didn't show up in my account. I still won't pretend to be the most confident person in the world, or the most mature, or any nonsense like that, but the greatest risk is not taking one IMO...and I am so glad I did.

If the kid is smart, he can get great benefit out of the military. When I was in the Coast Guard, I was going to school at the rate of 15 credits a semester, and never paid a dime.

I always recommend kids join the military if they don't have the cash for college. A motivated person could join the Coast Guard and in 6-8 years walk away with a Masters degree, without paying a dime, and have the GI bill to keep going, if desired. All the while having fun, collecting a paycheck, and figuring out life.

Hi: Hell no. Why? Because our military has and is being misused by corrupt politicians with private agendas. We no longer fight wars the way we should. If we fight a war, no matter where or with whom, it needs to be an all-out, no holds barred wipe out of the enemy. Carpet bomb them. Burn their cities to the ground and kill every living thing in sight. Once that is done, if they survivors wish to live within the law and promise not to continue to commit atrocities in the name of their god or their politics, we help them rebuild and welcome them into our society. If they continue to make threats or use force against us, bomb them some more. The idea of sending our young men and women into untenable, unwinable situations where they are constrained by absurd regulations to use whatever force is necessary is an abomination. Unless and until our politicos are willing to go out and not worry about "collateral damage" we will never be able to overcome our enemies. Right now, I think some of our worst enemies are in D.C. itself. Don't send our youngsters to fight if they are not allowed full use of the force our military can bring to bear.

I am now an ag business major at Texas A&M with the GI Bill providing most of my income. The new GI Bill is coming out this year and will be even better.

If the kid joings the service, Barack Obama will be his commander in chief. Would you like to be obligated to follow the orders of Barack Obama to the death?

The picture did hit home with me a little. My unit was far from combat ready, in a time when the military was not a popular choice. The general came down from HQ and was disgusted with the fitness in my unit. The result: the fit privates and E4s were made to do PT in formation every morning while the fat ass NCOs took turns supervising. I would recommend that anybody serious about the army try to get into a combat ready unit. That's where the pride is.

I was stationed on a navy base, so we had marines there too. The marines ran around the island every morning before work as a unit. You have to go to Bragg, Benning, or Campbell to see that kind of committment in the army.

"We aren't as top heavy as the other branches. Had a Marine O-3 tell me once that the Army has more Captains than the Marines has officers. From the numbers I saw - I would believe it."

You would be right. Active and Reserve components together, the Army is several times larger than the Marine Corps. The Army is no more top heavy. A large force requires a lot of captains and even more lieutenants, etc, etc, etc.

Expat

My son is joining to serve his country.

Took him out today and spent $200 getting him some new clothes. We had a great morning together. Tomorrow, my son in law, the Army Sargent, is taking him out to lunch to answer questions.

I never joined the military, but my job is very militaristic hard core. Many marines, rangers, even seals, ex NFL, do the job that I do. I went the peaceful route and got my degree in Finance etc etc. I guess I don't regret it. But if I had decided to join, I would have either followed my father's footsteps and chosen the Marines, or "tried" to become a SEAL, or Ranger. I have respect for all of them.

You serve at the pleasure of the Commander in Chief, whether you like him or not, it's not your decision to not follow him, it's your duty to follow orders..

it's good that all sides of the arguments can be aired out on the 'net. Not like a recruiter coming to school and spouting all the good stuff, without offering any information on the other side of the ledger, so to speak.

an all volunteer system is the way, but a lot of politicians want involuntary servitude....it makes them feel more powerful, i reckon.

My thought is that they should be encouraged to do whatever they want, as long as it is honorable.

Man I don't know how to respond to that without basically saying that is one of the more chicken$%^# statements I've ever read.

In reality if a soldier/marine/sailor/airmen should ever find themself in that position, well the career has brought them exactly to where it is expected to. That is simply a warrior's path. It may not be for you, but its undeniable that is the just of the job.

It would be like telling an Electrical Engineer that works for the Power Company that if he ever finds himself with the power in his city off and the responsibility of getting it back on on his shoulders that he has made some sort of a poor career move.


The warrior's path is not for all, but for all that choose it they should never fear where it will take them, or underestimate what it will ask of them.