In California teachers have to get advance notice of a pending lay off for the following year...

An article in the paper a couple day's ago stated that some 19,000 teachers in the state to get a lay off notice... could be higher because a few County's hadn't stated their intent before the article went out...

But [bleep] they keep on building 50,000,000+ dollar high schools!


Phil

I still can't believe 50 million bucks for a high school!

Hell, that's on the cheap... Los Angeles County and a few others have been building some in the 400+ Million dollar range...


Phil

They have sent notices before yet NEVER layoff anyone

They's the same sob's that voted for obama, tough chit

Must be a variation of "don't ask don't tell".

Thats impossible, teachers cant be fired........

Ahh..the pendulum swings. In ten years, or so, the country will be begging for teachers and willing to pay unbelievable money. It's just another symptom relieved by the drug-of-the-day, without addressing the cause.

How true!

Oh no, just think of the class size - way over union limits!

Last couple budget years teachers have been laid off all over Southern Calif., my city has given notice to some 300... But all but 60 or 70 were eventually kept... So far!


Phil

So how much do you think teacher's should be paid? I have read the dicussions and seen a lot of general vague comments that suggest they are overpaid, but what are they really worth? What is fair compared to other vocations?

Barring those that just think teaching should be abolished or minimalize, which I shudder to think people believe that a lack of education is a good thing, what is a fair wage?

just like here - 5 million to put colored rock along new strecths of freeway and a little girl cant get funding for a liver - go figure

The "conservative sheeple" are no different than the "liberal sheeple". They will jump on whatever band wagon is popular at the moment. In their minds, all government employees should be "servants" performing a duty as a favor to the taxpayers and the flag, and thankful for the crumbs they are fed.

Exactly.

Party loyalists are the bane of the republic, and will likely be the death of it.

Class size was just a another ruse to get more union teacher jobs, here in CA the average teacher pay is nearly the highest in the nation yet LA county's has 70% drop outs!

If class size matters why did the drop out rate go up? Why are we over paying teachers to fail, if you had results this dismal in the private sector you would be out the door in a second!

Less qualified teachers will fix that for sure.

Dear CA, here is a suggestion, how about every student you are planning to enroll has to prove citizenship before they walk in the door.... you might find that you don't need to employ as many school teachers...

Maybe it's just the bi-lingual teachers they are letting go.

Not really, but conservatives aren't afraid to question the status quo, even when it has to do with the almighty labor union.

As I recall, California has $800 million in unfunded pension liabilities for these "public servants".

Maybe that $800 million would be a much smaller number if public employees weren't retiring in their 40's with pensions equalling their salaries, and full health benefits.

Maybe they wouldn't need to send out all those pink slips. Did you ever think about that?

They are as much "servants" as the NFL players are "slaves"

_

I'll speak from a Wisconsinite's point of view.

It was, and should will once again, be up to the Independent School Districts, that comprise K-12 in the state. Since 1959 (when public unions gained collective bargaining power) that authority has been slowly, incessantly wrestled away from local boards -- taken! -- and put in the hands of the state, and the public-sector unions. To the point that a schoolboard member was nothing more than a required signature to a list of contracts, mandates, laws, and by-laws.

All that carnage, just to buy votes - and it's been at one hell of price. Just look at the failure rate of students in public schools.
It's never been about education.

Thank God! A voice of reason, for once, instead of shrill biased rhetoric. Radicals on either side are useless. I lean strongly toward Robert Bryce's self-description. "I am neither Democrat nor Republican. I am a charter member of the Disgusted Party. I am a radical centrist, a raging moderate, who leans toward the libertarian and believes wholeheartedly in the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights". (Hmm, maybe that will be my new sig line)

Even if some teachers voted for Messieur O (and the guy who stated such has no freakin clue) doesn't mean they deserve to get fired. CA has long had their own budget problems which, incidentally, wasn't the Terminator elected to 'fix'? Multi-million dollar schools and fewer teachers--great economics.

BTW, for those who seem to hate teachers and think they are all 'libs'--who taught you? There is no such thing as a totally self-taught man. We ALL learn from others in all areas of life.

If California got rid of all the illegal aliens and their kids, there would not be a financial shortfall in CA...

I am in favor of teachers being well paid.. at the same time, what some of them were making with Union Jobs in Wisconsin bordered on ridiculous...

Academia is where educators are DRAMATICALLY overpaid...

This is an old California trick. Same thing happened when we shot down Ahhnold's proposed tax hikes at the polls. He immediatley cut the number of school buses in use, and started laying off teachers. This makes people think "oh no, we gotta raise taxes now! This is horrible!"

Jerry Brown is doing the same thing. It's all fear tactics to goad people into letting them pass higher taxes.

Brian.

I have two freinds in Ca that have govt jobs. Both have had their hours cut.

One works for the Ca Dept of F&G at a state refuge as the office manager. They won't pay her for the full job time that's needed - they've already made staff cuts - so she ends up doing the work at home for FREE.

The other one works a water treatment facility in So Ca. His job cut backs are the most interesting. The water HAS to monitored and treated 24 - 7. They cut his hours back but somebody HAS to fill in at the same pay rate - OR - one of his co-workers works an extra shift and then gets paid overtime. There's only so many people that are qualified to his job.

STOOPID !!!!!

If California stopped pissing away money left and right on completley stupid chit (like dropping a couple million to study toads in the Bay Area), we'd be doing ok right now.

But it's California, where there hasn't been any sanity in power since Ronald Reagan was govenor.

Brian.

IMO if the country started worrying less about the teachers, and more about the parents, we'd be closer to fixing the problems. Can't have teacher accountability without parent accountability.

I don't think it is the teacher salaries that is the problem. In Oregon, the average cost per year per student is $10K. With 35 students per class, that is $350K. The teacher gets $50K salary plus 50% in benefits. The other $275K mostly goes to administators. We could cut administation by 50% without affecting even one student.

They've slashed the F&G department down to the bone. As of a year or so ago, they could only pay to have one warden (and a female at that) patrol all of South Fork Ridge during deer season. That's one warden to patrol a 98 mile long ridge with likely well over 1,000 hunters on it during the weekends (espically opening day).

Brian.

There is no tax payers expense the left won't spare to build indoctrination centers.The kids aren't learning the three R's,heck they aren't even graduating.They do learn they should vote for Dems and that Repubs are evil.

The ones that are graduating are functionally illiterate,so they're ill prepared to get employment.But the teachers have done their job,indoctrination.LOL.

Thank you for proving my point.

Exactly!
Idaho has a population of 1.3 million and IIRC 104 school districts.
Is 104 Administrations really necessary?

Whelen,

Your rhetoric is what ltppowell (I think) and myself have a problem with. These sweeping generalizations and willingness to throw the baby out with the bath water are why I consider myself a 'moderate'. I just cannot look at things with such a narrow, one-sided perspective.

Where was the conservative out-cry against the status quo during the Reagan, Bush I & II years? Where were the sweeping reforms when Republicans controlled Congress?

Where are the facts on pension payments vs. age/job, etc. in CA? While I am sure there are bloated, fat cat administrators who are/haved milked the system, to lump all/most of the teachers into that category and imply that the budget shortfalls could be greatly reduced by eliminating teachers is sophistic. There are a lot more public employess on the take in CA than just teachers.

A final note: to compare pro sports players with teachers in any way is specious in the extreme.

I'm not attacking you personally (being a 'moderate' I fully enjoy letting others hold a different point of view--and encourage discourse and dissension) but I see too many of these broad generalizations on the Fire, and indeed, the nation as a whole. Too often, it is accompanied by intolerance for a dissenting point of view which leads to the bipartisan gridlock we so often see.

On a happier note, I love the Whelen!

Exactly my point. The "unimportant" stuff is always cut from any budget first. Important to who, is the question. When it comes to politics, the the only thing that is important is that you oppose what the other side considers important.
[bleep] what really matters, you can't get re-elected like that.

You nailed it Pat.

Brian.

Are you kidding? 104 school districts, covering 83,574 sq miles, is too many?

Teachers are lucky....I've never been given an advance notice of a lay off.

I'm sorry, but I consider the "conservatives" that are swallowing this hook, no better than the dumbasses that bit on Hope and Change.

What hook?

Absolutely. And don't forget...they only oppose it so they can get re-elected by 'their constituency'.

Most people are suckers when it comes to politics. I learned a long time ago that all politicans are skunks, no matter what letter is after their name.

Brian.

Brian,

That is why we'll never have real "Hope and Change". If there is enough disgust with Pres. O come 2012 (by that I mean the economy-the only thing Americans really seem to care about) he will be ousted and the opposition will be victorious and...nothing will change. That is what I find most 'distasteful' about so many of the radicals in the R or D party (and here on the Fire). They really believe if they can get 'their guys' in power everything will be great (Obama proved that to be a lie for the Dems). Those who don't learn from history...

Sadly, the people we need in the Presidency don't want to do it and the ones who want to do it, we don't need.

The "more government" hook. Just because the government de jure is in your favor, don't mean it's less government. Is that what we really want?

nobody to support since Goldwater.

Those who seek absolute power, even though they seek it to do what they regard as good, are simply demanding the right to enforce their own version of heaven on earth. And let me remind you, they are the very ones who always create the most hellish tyrannies.

THey will never get laid off in CA.

Boy, aint that the truth....

That's been going on in American politics since day one. Everyone thinks "Oh man, if my guy just gets in there, everything will be sunshine and roses and puppy dogs for the next 4 years!"

But who are we going to replace Obama with who's any good? Sarah Palin? Mitt Romney? C'mon.

The really sharp thinkers with the knowledge and common sense to turn the country around aren't interested in the job. It's a pay cut for most of them and a lot of stress that they just don't need. Takes an odd person to want to be President in this day and age. I wouldn't take that job no matter what the pay was. Same goes for most other sane people.

Brian.

You nailed it.

Well said Brian. Being a successful Politician requires a special personality... intelligence, carisma, acting abiltiy and a lack of scrupples.

and sources of funding

Damn straight. And even if, by some miracle, we had a decent choice to vote for as Pres. what could he do without 535 other 'decent' people to back him up (or a majority)?

Yes.

All I can offer is that every generation of my family has had teachers, administrators, and board members in Wisconsin's K-12 system. When I threw my hands up, contracts, and mandates comprised over 75% of the district's revenue, and yearly the budget always increased, which forced property taxes to escalate.

The closed-loop of the politicians (Democrats), and the teacher's unions had/have a complete strangle hold on the educational system.
That omnipotent power has raised taxes to the point that people literally are forced to sell their homes, because the tax burden dictates it.

I view the current law in Wisconsin as a definite reduction of government, and more importantly - return of some authority to the taxpayers.

Yes, that's what I want - and don't give a rip who's party gets power advancing that type of reform.

I'll buy that, but why is Wisconsins's problem, my problem?

Fixed that for you.

Nothing I hate more in a person than someone who can look you square in the eye and tell you a bold faced lie, and never blink once. Hence my distaste for pretty much every politican on earth.

Brian.

Here's a start. Former Governor Doyle raided Wi funds from transprtation (and other areas) and sent those funds to "education" (funded benefits packages to the tune of 500 million).

Obama sent federal 'stimulus' money to Doyle to the tune of 717 million for education (680 million more, for benefits), and wala! 500 million for transportation.
That'd be 1.5 B, billion to fund Wisconsin's benefit packages. That kinda cash buys a lot of loyalty in a battleground state.

Last I checked, federal funds means you too.

That's my point. Why does the Federal government have my money to give them?

Just think, 100 years ago, before the progressives [bleep] up schools, kids went to a one room building that a handful of people could build in a weekend today for a couple thousand bucks. And they got a better education.

...and the teachers got better pay.

The fed has no business -- but has taken the authority -- in state's K-12. I'd also support any, and all measures to cut the head off that serpant as well.



'Cause the fed has the authority to tax - but doesn't excercise the discipline not too.

I'm thinkin' the message is starting to come across though.

Bingo. That is THE problem, not public unions, not corporations, not liberals, not conservatives. If California wants to have gay parades, New York wants to have lunch-hour abortions or Wisconsin wants to fire all it's teachers, it should be of no concern to me.

Paper towel - just a plain ol' har, har - but a messy one!



Cops, they get ya talkin', and they're takin' notes the whole time!

>grin<

Thanks...I think. I just don't get it. The only reason for the Federal government is to keep the States from [bleep] with each other and other countries from [bleep] with the States. It seems that the government has become a facilitator for just the opposite.

my sister in law got a slip in tx thankful my wife has not

'twas meant as a compliment - you're good at your vocation, and fair-minded.


"The only reason for the Federal government is to keep the States from [bleep] with each other and other countries from [bleep] with the States. It seems that the government has become a facilitator for just the opposite."


On that, we are 100% in concert.

I'd cut the head (METAPHOR) off that serpant too. (figured you'd get it, but my PM's overflow lately).

As you know, there's nothing to cut in Texas but jobs. We don't pay many taxes, relatively. That's partially why I resent the political groupthink that inundates the general populace when another State's problem is heralded as the National crisis of the day. Does anybody really think that public unions in the blue States are any more of a burden than illegal immigration is in Texas? Welfare in Louisiana? Let's face it...some people are just easier to pick on.

Here's the real problem though. If we don't care what the blue states do, they will inevitably destroy themselves and a bunch of jackazzes in DC will make the rest of us bail them out with some spread the wealth scheme. I personally don't want to care what other states do but my intuition says it's in my best interest.

Fair enough, but why don't we address the several BILLION dollars that Wisconsin residents (no offense Wisnonsinites)also? How can anybody not see the political games being played? The REAL issues are alway avoided, and the sheeple (R and D) are always distracted from them.

California has a $24 billion dollar deficit and an $80 billion budget. The new Governor has promised to balance the budget with cuts and tax increases. So it's no wonder that layoffs are likely.

I wonder how much it cost to send out those 19,000 pink slips and I also wonder what the real cost savings are once they all go back to work?

If they eliminated the pink slip sender jobs - Ca may actually save a few bucks.

I wonder how many education administrators are included in that list? You know the mid level bururcrats that are making 2-3 times as much as the average teacher and has a secretary or two also. Their only job seems to be going to each others meetings.. That way they have something to do.

That is just what happened with Nurses...

I hope they love all that 'hope and change' they're gettin'..

Agree with a lot of what Pat said. Brian was spot-on when he said it was a ploy. That's not all it is, but it is certainly partly that.

Kansas cut ed funding drastically last year. Other stuff in the budget-not so much. My Rep had a plan to achieve the same ends without the drastic cuts, but he is kind of a Ron Paul type that nobody listens to much. Part of his proposal involved cutting his own salary along with those of his fellows at the State House. You can imagine how well that went over.

Teachers and ed is convenient. We have Republicans in our state legislature and also as a Governor. They generally love to cut education because people dislike the nazi-like aspects of the schools and also a lot of the curriculum that has been shoved down their throats. Everybody got a story about how they were mistreated when they were in school.

Now, this year, the [bleep] just cut 56 mil out of the current budget in order to end up the fiscal year with a bit of a surplus. 50 mil of it came out of education! You can't find but 6 mil in the whole budget that ain't education?

Anyway, most of the asswholes up in Topeka have their kids in private school anyway and could care less about those who value education but just ain't got the money for private school.

It costs a lot less to send pink slips than to pay the teachers and bureaucrats. Anyway the law requires that they send them if there is a possibility of layoffs. They really don't cost very much as they have all they equipment and labor necessary to make and send them out.

Stop and think for a few moments. Do you think your son/daughter will have a better learning environment if the class size is increased from 30:1 to let say 40+:1?

At some point we as tax payers and parents will have to say hold on just 1 minute!


I don't know what is going on in the Golden State but as was said on an earlier post the pendulum swings and in a very few years there will be a massive shortage of teachers and the school districts will up the pay a bunch to close that gap. It would be great if we as a country could find some middle ground rather swinging so wildly from the far right to the far left.


Short Story:


I was attending a teaching recruiting fair in Montana many years ago with my only intention being interviewing with 2 districts from Alaska. The gym floor was covered with school districts from California which I had to traverse to get to the small area set aside for Alaska. When districts saw that I was a Science Teacher they were leaping over their tables to greet me. I was very frank in telling them that I was only interested in Alaska but Orange County and Sacramento both offered to match the wages from Alaska and both offered me a signing bonus along with mortgage assistance if I would sign. Talk about crazy! This was with out seeing my packet or an interview. So glad I did not give it any thought.

Lot of kick-backs being handed out. School construction is very corrupt.

Go down to the local schoolhouse and watch the teachers, then go down to the corner where crack is sold and your local welfare recipients hang. Get back with us about how teachers, cops, firemen etc. are the problem with the country. Politicians, including "conservative", will not TOUCH the real issues.

+100