Does anyone,have any info about the murderer Claud Dallas,just curious.

I'll go put on the popcorn.

GTC

I'll get the beer.....

Yeah. He paid his debt to society for murdering two good and professional men. Is living the free life now.

As far as I know, Dallas was released from prison in 2005.

Ian Tyson got into ALL sortsa' chit for spinning this up. Hell he never even wrote it !

Some NICE acoustic guitar here,....BS notwithstanding

[video:youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=MzYTh2xV5NU[/video]

one of those wardens was a real pogue. just sayin'......

Yeah - not a popular guy with the locals. Nonetheless, Dallas sorta got away with murder, IMO. I remember the sheriff's quote that Dallas - who the media constantly referred to as a "mountain man" - "couldn't make a pimple on a mountain man's ass".

You can count on a guy from New York to have all the story. Not.

link to Wikipedia story on Dallas: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claude_Dallas

Possibly living in Utah.

Here you go:

http://magicvalley.com/news/opinion...cf3b2ce-259f-5438-b0e5-ae32519d0af6.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claude_Dallas

http://www.idahostatesman.com/2008/03/23/331345/how-did-notorious-idaho-outlaw.html

http://freedominourtime.blogspot.com/2012/01/shadow-of-claude-dallas.html

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1336584/posts

http://www.okgamewarden.com/PastIssues/2005-Issue1/Claude_Dallas.html

Well this ought to be enough for now.

Yup

It was plain murder. He had them both wounded and down, but then he shot them both in the head. It might have started as self defense, but it didn't end that way. He should have hung for it.

We was offered parole several years before his time was up but he turned it down. He didn't want to live under parole rules so he just sat in prison until the full 20 was up. He hasn't been seen since.

Dunno,.....I wasn't there that day.

The "Bad Blood" between those two (Dallas and Pogue) was well known, and lent a certain air of inevitability to the whole debacle .

Bad blood that went the distance,as it were.

GTC

With the two officers dead who had the whole story.
It is wise to look at the passed reputations,acts, and words of the men involved through the people that knew them to see where the truth likely lies.
Found the whole situation interesting and did quite a bit of reading and research if you will.
Pogue was a hard nosed lawman and as stickler but hardly a judge/jury type that brought back bodies.
Generally speaking we like to rebel against gov't authority except when it is in our best interest.What Pogue and Elms were out there doing was.
They were out there on account of a rancher's son having passed through the camp, observing all kinds of unlawful taken animals, and feeling like he was going to get a bullet in his back the whole time.
Might of been paranoid huh?

The head of the Idaho F&G at the time was a friend of mine. To put it as nicely as I can, while he certainly condemned Dallas for what he did, he wasn't surprised based on who was involved.

BTW that wasn't the wardens' first trip to the camp.

Double yup.

The term asking for it comes to mind.

There was an eye witness "friend" of Dallas who was 15' from the action but was looking toward the tent when the initial Dallas/Pogue shooting took place.
He passed multiple polygraphs and was afraid for his life.
He had no idea what initiated the shots Dallas got off but there wasn't any verbal threats going on before the shots.
How did he feel about the other unarmed warden getting gunned down?

Never shoulda' spent a day in jail....and never had a debt to pay.

Apparently in Nevada whores and gambling are fine but living off the land isn't. No tax revenue that way and the gov't can't get their pound of flesh.

wow.

As was said earlier, he should have hung. I'm tipping a glass in toast that he'll rot of cancer before he roasts in hell.

Pogue and Elims were doing what they were paid to do.
Dallas was in fact poaching and in possession of hanging venison and bobcat pelts.
Likely it was Elim walking out of Claudes tent with the bobcat pelts that distracted Pogue and gave Dallas the opportunity to shoot him.
Though Pogue had a reputation of a jerk,others would say no nonsense, and the defense played it for all it was worth.
Talk is that Pogue had it in for Claude but they had never interacted other than Pogue leaving his business card in a illegal trap of Dallas's, that he didn't know was Dallas's.
He didn't know it was 'Claude Dallas" in that camp that day.
AIR, Pogue wasn't in that camp before but glassed and noted it after responding to rancher's report of a illegal trap baited with sage hen.
Then came the report from the rancher's son after riding through the camp that initiated that day.
Hell, the day before a acquaintance of Dallas's was rattled when he rode into that camp and ended up looking down Dallas's muzzle before Dallas recognized him.
Tells you something of Dallas's mind set.

Wow.

I'm tipping a cold one to Mr.Dallas knowing that he's living out his life. Hopefully free from little di.cked, badge heavy bullies.

I suppose a large fraction of Alaskans that live subsistence lifestyles should hang for shooting and eating a deer (or whatever)?

But then again I was all for Randy Weaver....I'm sure you were pulling for the FBI and the Jap sniper.

Yeah, no chit...Probably a kid doing a report on him or something...

I'm sure you have no idea what you are talking about and that you are a piece of schit to boot.

Equating subsistance living in the bush with the cowardly murder of 2 game wardens is beyond retarded. You are a fool, or a pot stirrer. Or both. Regardless you are a piece of schit.

So are you a cop or a family member of a cop? More than likely your boyfriend is a cop.

Dallas was being bullied, Pogue had it in for him and Pogue got his just desserts. Pogues butt-buddy was just following orders like any good brownshirt would do.

Not stirring the "pot" just stating my feelings. Those 2 f.uckwads messed with the wrong guy and got what they deserved.

You thinking otherwise shows what a lowlife piece of chickensh.it you are. Spineless little f.uck.

I've done a lot of reading about this and my conclusions won't change based upon you bullsh.it.

dallas is/was a chicken-chit running puzzy.

Gunner

Talk all the chit you like. He murdered those two game wardens. He's no hero. If you put him on a pedestal, then I pity you for the fool that you are. There are much better examples out there for you to pimp for your own agenda.

Judging from your posts on here, if you'd half the stones it takes to be an honest and good game warden you'd already be in your local obits.

LOL.

Self defense isn't murder. Those little co.cksuckers went looking for trouble and found it.

So what is it? You or your family/boyfriend are cops?

It's hardly my agenda but I see you are trying to make it yours.

Not hard to figure folks out on here after you read enough of their posts.

If that was self defense, I'm the pope.

I'm not even Catholic.

I hate poachers!

As a side note, if you want to piss of a Game Warden, ask him "How is Claude Dallas doing these days?"

"Judging from your posts on here, if you'd half the stones it takes to be an honest and good game warden you'd already be in your local obits."

I take it as a compliment considering how you feel about Papa Pogue...who was in the local "obits".

Difference is I wouldn't have a need to prove myself (like Pogue) to local boot-lickers like you.

All that matters and that puts a smile on my face is knowing the outcome was just....and the better man won. Something that doesn't surprise me, is that's lost on you.

You can stomp your little feet and jump your fat gut up and down all you want but it ain't gonna' change the facts. lol

So subsistence is poaching? GMAFB!

States that have their sh.it together make a distinction.

True, facts are facts.

Dallas murdered those game wardens.

He probably sucked a lot of dick while he was out on the lamb.

You pick up your pompoms and squeeze into that old cheerleading outfit and rah rah rah every time you see his name.

You gotta be kidding. You can argue about what started the shooting, but when the 2 wardens were wounded and down, it should have ended right there. They couldn't fight back. The fight was over. The shots to the head were cold blooded murder.

Dallas should still be locked up.

I'm sure your boyfriend and his pom poms are all you need...well that and a Viagra, Cialis and a White wine spritzer.

I like women...but thanks you old, fat, [bleep].

But you're correct, Claude was convicted of murder (wrongfully imo) served his time, paid his "debt" and I hope lives his days out in happiness. Something I'm glad Pogue doesn't get to do.

Ciao.....

That is most likely why he was convicted. HOWEVER, if he'd left them alive but dying...people would be up in arms that "he left them dying, suffering with no regard to comfort".

Fu.ck them....they came looking for a fight and found it. I love a happy ending.

But he's not and Pogue is burning in HELL!!

You have not a fugging idea what you're talking about. Go back under that bridge where you live and work up with some more of your vomitus.

Stealing game is not "living off the land". Dallas was a low life of the first order...you know...like you. He should have met the same fate as the two wardens he murdered.

Crap,....we're runnin' outta' popcorn !

........somebody better make a beer run, too.

For this the ANNUAL "WGAF about an Old, Tired, Totally Beat to DEATH Subject",....here, at this Campfire.

There IS fresher material ,.....RECENT stuff to get all panty wadded about, Ya' Know.

One side note , observation that I WOULD make,....is that if Dallas wasn't "....a pimple on a mountain man's ass "

HOW did he manage to elude such hot pursuit, for so long ?

Right, Wrong, or TOTALLY indifferent, There had to be SOME element of "Bushcraft" involved.



GTC

I'll get more beer....

They know how to handle poachers in Africa. They dust their sorry azzes right off this earth. You and your ilk can kiss my azz. I guess killing illegally is recreation to ignoramuses like you.

I said my piece. This example of consanguinity can krapp all over the thread all he wants now.

You are so full'o'sh.it. When was he convicted of POACHING????

The wardens met their fate and Dallas met his. Justice is a beautiful thing.

Generally speaking I find you boring and stupid....an online blowhard lonely for friends....now go back to your welfare check old man.

Tough talk from an online pus.sy. Maybe you should put your actions where your co.ck hole is and go "dust their sorry azzes".lol Move to Africa my little black Sambo....and show'em how bad as.s you are. Put down your bon bons and get at it boy.

Forgot another fact about puzzydallas, he was also a draft dodging communists chickenshitt.

Gunner

LOL and very true. It's either laugh at this sh.it or watch Christmas shows.

I chose laugh at this sh.it.

I had read somewhere that that was just an embellishment to the story, and the day in question was the first day they had ever laid eyes on the other.

Depends who you talk to, I guess.

GTC

I wasn't on the jury,so I don't know all the facts. lol

I spend lots of time in grouse creek, UT..Claud is around..That area also has several others known to "take care of buisness".."A place like no other" is the town motto, its also a place where you mind your P's and Q's, dont see much law around there.

As far as what happened back in the '80's, all I know is two men lost their lives doing their job. pricks or not I dont think that justifies murdering them..just my .02

And your boyfriends love that you love a happy ending. Keep making them happy and maybe they'll keep paying the bills for you to come on here.

LOLOL....Not even close. I went thru there several times not long after, had/have friends there and there is a difference of opinion and FACTS. It's no secret that the standoff was sealed it was just the outcome that was uncertain at the time.

I spent 25 years chasing poachers and have looked into the eyes of many men who wanted to murder me. A certain percentage of them probably would have gotten away with it, because there would have been no witnesses. Or at least, none friendly to me.

It still would have been murder.

Thanks.

Gunner

True....and if you'd have killed them....IT STILL WOULD BE MURDER.

I was a hard nosed, no nonsense officer. Never had to seriously injure anyone in a 25 year career. For that, and for my life in retirement, I am grateful.

I'd say that sums it up, if you don't agree with the law, shoot those who enforce them.

In other words..you were a dick. lol

I'm glad that you've had a successful career. I have a couple of friends that are Wardens and know several others casually. In 30+ years of hunting and fishing I've NEVER so much as had a warning. I'm a stickler for the rules.

But.....if you had to shoot and kill someone IT WOULD STILL BE CONSIDERED MURDER!

I'll be the first one to turn in a poacher. BUT.....not every violation is poaching and not everyone violating the letter of the law is a poacher. Grey area does exist. Survival is grey...

Because of the various emotional and traditional views that oppose many wildlife regulations, it is generally more "socially acceptable" to hate/threaten/injure/kill a game warden than any other type of LEO. That tends to make many of us a bit more "businesslike" at times, I guess.

Aces,

You are a puzzy. Own it.


Travis

Ever look at the Grouse Creek phone book. It's 65% one family name, 30% another, and 5% "outsiders.

That is one closed Mormon hamlet!

In the context of this thread, there is no denying Dallas was a poacher's poacher, hell even his own attorney used that as a defense.

My dad and his brother were both career law enforcement and have heard chit like this from azzwipes like you my entire life. You are a complete [bleep] idiot.

[quote=AcesNeights]"Judging from your posts on here, if you'd half the stones it takes to be an honest and good game warden you'd already be in your local obits."

I take it as a compliment considering how you feel about Papa Pogue...who was in the local "obits".

Difference is I wouldn't have a need to prove myself (like Pogue) to local boot-lickers like you.







Before you guys exhaust your batteries in your light sabre duel Google the facts about Dallas' draft dodging experience with the FBI in 1973.........

Plain clothes FBI in an old pickup went to claude's work place and got the drop on him. He was cooperative but they really screwed with him, even after his court appearance. Claude vowed that he would never be taken by police again to his ranch coworkers. This set the stage for the encounter with Pogue andElms years later. Dallas was ready and willing to kill the two officers to avoid harassment and arrest, I don't think Pogues style influenced the outcome at all.

It boggles the mind, doesn't it?

Wow....that hurts.

You know who was really a puzzy?....other than your.....I digress. Pogue...Pogue was a puzzy. Now he's dead.

Seems the badge'll protect a fat f.uck like Pogue (or you) about as quick as your dumb wit makes you funny.

No what boggles the mind, is that because you were related to LE that somehow makes all of their actions justified.

IT DOESN'T...nor does it make any of you special by virtue of being their spawn.

Own it.

And, you were RIGHT !

No that you would wish well a dude whose own lawyer admits he gunned down two wardens because he didn't agree with the laws they were hired to enforce. Then as they lye mortally wounded he put a rifle behind their ear and executed them? And you want to drink a toast to the bastard? Now if said wardens would have had Dallas down on the ground and put a rifle behind his ear, you would be screaming like a raped Comanche.

You need to own the fact that you are an idiot. If you don't like the laws change them but no one has the right to murder those who enforce them because they don't agree with them. Claude Dallas is piece of chit poacher who should have hanged and the two game wardens were doing their jobs and did nothing wrong in enforcing the game regulations. It's a pity you're too stupid to comprehend that fact. Idiots like you make us all look bad by association when non-hunters find these boards and read your stupid drivel.

I didn't know he was a draft dodger.

Indeed it does.

To no one in particular, and with no hint of a point �

Fellow I used to know bought a signed copy of my big cartridge book to give to Dallas. I never heard a mumblin' word from Dallas, who was still in prison and soon to be released when W bought that book for him.

If I had my way,......posting the name "Claude Dallas" would trip the same automatic "Bleep" function that some cuss words do here.

There's so many more interesting things we could discuss,....like why beans fly out of Chili in a microwave, and such.

GTC

Ya, you are right, just like Randy Weaver, everyone has formed an opinion, but that being said, the level in which Aces celebrates the execution of two people has taken the argument to a new level I don't believe I have seen before...well with the exception of Len Horuchi.

I know it hurts. You've been a puzzy your whole life.

But keep typing, it might make you feel better, puzzy.


Travis

I'd not be screaming like a "raped Comanche". Mostly because unlike you guys, I realize that 2 groups of folks that chose their own path, met up and someone lost. Just because one (or 2) had a badgge doesn't bestow a supreme authority upon the losers. 2 cowboys/gunslingers went to blows....the losers NOW have their contingent of pus.sies and whiners bi.tching because the losers wore a badge and think it unfair. If Claude had been gun downed at the hand of the badge it'd not even be a footnote.

Get ahold of your emotions and quit acting like the rest of the douchebag pussies (Travis, et al.).

INOW....Own it.

Don't steal the lines I use on you, puzzy.


Travis

Um excuse me, are you condoning poaching? Is taking game whenever you feel like it "going your own way"? Man, I shutter to think what the deer and elk populations would look like if "we all went our own way".

GDF!!! I just poured my one nightcap I allow myself. Single malt isn't cheap!

Don't bother Barkoff. He's just another puzzy roaming the internet.



Travis

I'll do what I want bitch.

Live with it.

Another wannabee commando hiding behind a keyboard. You're so tough.

Nice try at the red herring.

When was he convicted of poaching? One deer to live on is hardly poaching...but I'd not expect a Kalifornia girl to understand. Roll over, give Travis a hug and tell him to not worry....it's just the internet.

Boil----Travis appreciates and needs your help.

Bless your heart.

I know most of them personally.Dont need a phone book.

Here, take this to Lee24 and have him try to explain it to you.

Pushed to the max... none of us know where we would break.. does it justify taking a life? Or two... once you make that move, you have to be ready to take what happens to you, or go out fighting. Was it worth it? Probably not. Sal La Vie!

LOL....

Without using your hero Lee24 as a resource, just give me something proving he was a convicted poacher.

Maybe PM Travis I'm sure he'll be a wealth of info....no..on second thought stick with Lee24. Travis is just an alcoholic with too much time on his hands.

YUP! Claude paid for it.

But to some this one deer was worth it...

They lose...especially Elms and that POS Pogue...but with some losses hell gains. This time hell gained that POS Pogue.

Is he proud you defended his lack of honor on here tonight?


Last thought before you fingerbang yourself to the thought of sucking Dallas' dick tonight sweetheart.

Is it outside your understanding that when going for a murder conviction they would not bother with a misdemeanor? Why do you believe his lawyer would make it part of his defense if it were a non-issue? To borrow a term from Steelhead you are now playing obtuse to avoid admitting the obvious. There is really no point in debating further when one can't even admit to what Dallas's own attorney admits to.

I get a kick out of some out-of-stater thinking he knows what happened in Owyhee County cause he's "read a lot". Probably belongs to the CD fan club that wrote to him every day while he was in prison. Most of those were some strange women though...

I was living in the area when and before this all happened. The interesting thing I always have noted is that to a man - every person I know who talked trash about Pogue were themselves poachers. Idaho had a very active and bold culture of poaching at the time (probably still does to an extent). I'm even related to some of those who would still be doing some of it if their health and finances allowed.

Pogue had a bad rep among that community, but Elms never did. Owyhee county still has a high rate of poaching, due to it's remoteness. It is common knowledge that if it were not for the poaching, there would be twice as many tags available for legal hunters.

Pogue and Elms were working for the sportsmen of the State of Idaho, attempting to reduce this activity WITH OUR BLESSING.

As for Dallas - I don't have any idea what he's like now, but he was a sociopath. It doesn't take much research to figure that out, but the people evaluating him at the time came to that conclusion based on his own presentation.

He also wasn't a "bushcrafter" or "mountain man", and he wasn't living off the land. He had people helping him from the edges of society the whole time. When he escaped, he had people helping him then too - probably from the same fan-club base that AA seems to be a member of.

Both times he was captured, he had not "disappeared into the outback" as his fans speculated that he would. He relied on the fringes of society to get by and stay hidden.

To this day still, all the people I know who defend him either live somewhat outside the law, or desire to. Not one of them could ever make it actually living off the land.

So your answer is NO!?

Shooting a deer to survive, out of season or without a license might be wrong to you....and that's exactly why you are where you belong.

That deer, the survival of a man who wanted to be left alone, was worth some badge-heavy douchebag proving a poiint?

Congrats?

I know as much or more than you do/did. The poaching was locals like you and the fall guy was Dallas.

Pogue didn't or couldn't take out his frustrations on you and your ilk (local poachers) so Dallas was as good a fall guy as any. INOW's this "out of stater" KNOWS that blood is on you and the other locals' hands.

You did get 2 things right...Pogue was an unliked POS and Elms was nothing more than an unwitting accessory. But when some ghetto POS does a drive by I don't give the passengers a pass. Elms was guilty by association.

END OF STORY ....Own It.

Apparently it's ok to some.

Good post FreeMe.

its called poaching, its against the law..Wardens will arrest you if you do it..If you resist arrest, pull a gun [bleep] going to happen..I wasnt there, neither were you..He killed two men for doing their job..over a few bobcat pelts and an f'n deer.what part of that is too hard for you to understand? You think we should just let poaching go unchecked? It was the 1980's, not 1880's.

I cannot believe how stupid you are.

Where's W.H Pogue buried?

Next time I'm thru that country I might need to take a pis.s...

BTW....your boys done a damn fine job. They lost the war but won the battle....no they lost the battle but won the war.....wait...they lost the war AND they lost the battle. But they stopped a guy from surviving by himself and instead put him on the taxpayers dole for 22 years.

You fu.ckers sure are bright.

Congrats?

The hell you do, pup.



Barking up the wrong tree there.



Bull. Pogue had no problem using his authority on the local poachers and did so quite often. That's why he was so "popular" among them. Your premise doesn't even hold water without addressing the facts. You ain't as educated as you think you are.

Man, you're really falling apart.

Probably fancies himself a "mountain man" too. I'd like to see him give it an honest try - without the support system Dallas relied on.

I'm sure the WA Game Wardens would appreciate him posting a photo of his hateful mug. Knowing his unstable mindset in advance might safe their lives.

How about it Ace?

Ain't gonna happen. Ace talks tough but she's way too much of a puzzy to do that.

To know one in particular...
my 2cents... the rancher's son in the camp started this by runnin' his mouth -OR- it could have been the butler in the kitchen???
___________________________
I'm all for subsistence living deadmanshand -SO- what does "bobcat" taste like, "chicken" -OR- does it taste like "rattler"?!?
___________________________
Whoever commented on Claud Wayne Dallas' "bushcraft"... FYI Officer Barney Fife Fudd from Grouse Creek, Utah was hot on his trail on more than one occasion but every time he got close, Claud would vanish into the 65% camp or 35% camp and Barney couldn't get much help from the 5% Outsiders - go figger
____________________________
We didn't need to go to "screaming raped Commanches" - did we??
That was offensive - more acceptable... "screaming sodomized AssesN8's"
Judge - Jury - Executioner
AssN8 - AssN8- AssN8
Lookit your hole card fool
________________________
Pssst... Asses (Preparation H)

Let's talk about the rancher's son. Or ranchers, in general.

I don't particularly care for one or two of the Owyhee County gentry, for reasons I won't go into here - but most of 'em are good folks. There ain't a high percentage of private land up there, but much of that has been closed off to hunting as a result of poaching activity. The poachers don't generally respect private property. I don't blame any rancher for turning in a poacher.

So, I take it Claud Wayne Dallas was camping on the rancher's land.
________________
Without permission - he's one "lucky" rancher's kid

Without double-checking, I can't say that I recall. Doesn't really matter where he was camped, does it? I know it wouldn't matter to me if a poacher was operating on my land or near it - I would drop the dime.

I believe he was, and said rancher was afraid to tell him to leave.

I recall hearing that - but I can't recall confirming it. If true, it blows another little hole in the "subsistence" claim.

OH man,did I ever stir up a bunch of [bleep] here,sorry to everyone

A man who picks up a cat by the tail, learns something he can learn in no other way. - Mark Twain

Rusty,
As a Canadian you might not have realized this was a hot-button issue. You might also not be aware of a book that was written about the CD murders. It's out of print, but not hard to find. It was written shortly after the trial.
HERE

Well, how could you know if you didn't ask?

http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?sts=t&tn=Give+a+Boy+a+Gun

Also "Outlaw" by Jeff Long IIRC

Elm's widow lives about 300' from me. She isn't a fan.

Wow, where is that Cat Whisperer dude when you need him? I hope that Animal Control Officer went after that [bleep] cat and slayed his sorry asss.

Good morning, puzzy.



Travis

I can't believe how big his puzzy is.


Travis

This puzzy is scared of his own shadow. He doesn't have the balls.


Travis

I expect this "living off the land" subsistence deal is highly overrated, aint too many ever chose that life when other options were available, not even the Indians.

I believe it was you who stated somewhere that Dallas chose to kill two LEO's doing their job over a couple of bobcat pelts and a deer. Near as I can tell from this distance, that sums it up pretty well.

Birdwatcher

That explains why aNe picks heroes with no balls ie [claudieboy], a draft dodging sucker punch shooting chickenshitt.

Gunner

Heck Gunner, don't sugar coat it. Just tell us what you're really thinking.

Sorry I better go have more coffee and be nice. LOL

Gunner

Wrong book Ken.............I know because it's the first one that popped on my search too!

I knew that. I just wanted to shut him up.

And, the Fisherman-of-the Week Award goes to......

truer words were never spoken, nada wrong with removing oneself from the quirks of town living

but true subsistence is not a pretty venture, not much of it goes on anymore up here any longer, but I've been blessed to know some old folks that came closer to doing so than many of us can imagine.

we have a tendency to romanticize stuff in our culture, mountain men, subsistence living, cowboying or the Indian way.

but the folks that have really btdt, would most likely tell you there's something to be said for grocery stores, fresh fruit, flour, medicines etc.

only Dallas really knows what was in his heart that day, but he's probably changed his mind several times himself about the justifications of his actions that day, but maybe not.

I do believe the easiest person to lie to is often yourself.

But I'd think most any man with a conscience would have 2nd thoughts about what he did to Elms and for what price.

a deer and some bobcat pelts, how much time would he have gotten for that? Am thinking less than 20 years, and two guys that could have died by some other means.

Perhaps it was worth it to Dallas, but it wouldn't be worth it to me, mountain man or not. YMMV

I don't know enough about the Claude Dallas deal to make an intelligent comment about it. That said I want to kind of build on what you said.

I don't know what it is but lots of folks want to romanticise and glorify an outlaw who sets himself against society. Just look at it. Robin Hood, Billy the Kid, Jessie James, Bonnie and Clyde and the beat goes on including old Claude.

Stands to reason that anybody who holds themself to be above the law and scornfull of normal society gets ground down pretty quick. If they had anything good in them to start with it gets washed out and they wind up as a rat in a hole snapping at everybody and everything.

Most probably the vast majority of us if we had to live around such people we'd just wish to hell they'd move on somewhere else.

I'm not gregarious by nature but that don't mean I can't nod and speak to most all I meet. Don't mean that I can't be socable and get on in a live and let live way.

I have nothing against people who take game if they need to, regardless of seasons etc.

But tell me this Ace, who in the heck kills bobcats in to live on? Who the heck eats bobcats? And if he did take cats to eat, why the heck did he skin them and keep the hides?

Drop this crap of, "poor guy, he ws only trying to be left alone and live off the land..." crap.

BTW, how he managed to elude capture had a lot to do with locals helping him along the way.

Those hides were worth up to $500 apiece. Call it subsistence money.....

Yeah. After Claude finished dealing with the warden's bodies he lamented to Steven's he had to leave 50 set traps behind because of the haste his exit required.

Excellent post, James.

It would have gave me cause for lamentation, too......

The People Magazine story (which, by the way, seemed to be very well researched) indicated that Dallas had decided to move to either northwestern Canada or Alaska. He was trapping bobcats to make enough money to pay off the bar owner where he had been living and running up a tab, so that he could leave with a clean slate.

Even in civilized surroundings, seemingly innocuous things like the service of a warrant, or even just a welfare check, can escalate and go terribly wrong because of the volatility of the emotions of the individuals involved. Sometimes it's one-sided and sometimes it's mutual, as it seems to have been in this case. Tom Russel said in his song, "there may be no right or wrong", but it looks to me like neither Dallas nor Pogue was trying to do the "right thing", whatever that was, in this situation.

During the proceedings, Dallas said that they were going to take him in. He wanted to tend his livestock before they left and Pogue wouldn't let him. Things went south from there.
That was Dallas' story. I don't know know what really happened.

I've heard that Pogue drew-down on Dallas, and Dallas fired "in self-defense."

What evidence, if any? (In other words, How does anybody know?)

I've had two LEO's draw down on me over the years, sometimes they have to do that till they figure out whats going on, I never tried/wanted to kill either one of them.

They do look at ya kinda funny if ya smile at 'em though.

Gunner

Funny, in my mind I can picture that....

Can't see why anyone would worry 'bout a powder puff.....

George

No kiddin' LOL

Gunner

Best Post yet,......in a FIELD of very good posts.

Kudos

GTC

Don't be sorry, I thought it was perfect!

Tell me, what do your "buddies" that are game wardens think of your view.
You are full of schit and a real piece of work.
Good luck.

It just amazes me that there are so many geniuses on here and most from out of state and you do not even know all of the families involved in this mess. Most of you I do not even recognize other than when there is something to flame over. Other than Mr. Howell and Rockchuck I haven't read anything other than testosterone. Go figure.....

Generalize much?

Talk about genius and fanning flames.

Was unnecessarily and hostilely held at gunpoint by a game warden one day, well over thirty years ago. I am still half pizzed about it, would love to have had the ability to take that gun from him and busted his front teeth out with it. He had earned that.

Point a loaded gun in someones face unnecessarily isn't looked at kindly, by some. I did feel like my life was being threatened.

Seems to me mistakes were made on both sides of the fence that day in 1981, Tragic mistakes, and a lot of folks have paid a large price ever since.

And what have you offered genius ?

Not sure what knowing the families will get you other than a biased point of view, as opposed to those who have no emotional ties when reporting on the incident in question.

No clue who all the folks that day in 81 affected, but have had a young child sitting o my living room floor, as a news story about Dallas came on TV say "that man killed my Grampa".
And I am gonna leave this thread at that.

Well...when we talked about it a few years back they thought Pogue was c.unt....they hated Dallas for what he'd done.

Enough said, end of story from here also.

Your a sick dog, you should be banned from the campfire.

I see that you live in a state that legalized pot and gay marriage, you and your state will soon be in the sewer.

Aces:
Do you think any of Claud's reaction to the wardens was colored by his experience with the FBI 10 years earlier?

Claud had a run in with plain clothes FBI on a draft issue at the end of the Viet Nam war.

They jumped him at the ranch he was working at and treated him badly......
even though he was not resisting. Said FBI said that they would hound him even if he was found not guilty. Pards said that he was a changed man when he returned and vowed not to be taken by LE ever again.

You live in a state that allows gambling and whores and has turned its back on everything moral. STFU and clean your own house grandma....nice try though. You led the way to the sewer....

Congrats grandma temperance.

30Gibbs....in short YES. I have little doubt that Claudes' past experiences 'jaded' him or predisposed him of the end as much as Pogues' experiences. They were both human.

He felt duped by his priors and sought distance from the threats that were promised him.

Like Randy Weaver if you pis.s off the wrong folks those folks will come after you for anything....under the full umbrella of the law. Just because a 'lawman' was killed does NOT make the killing wrong.

In the heat of the moment, possibly.
The way it was done, execution style, does in fact make it wrong.
Shooting a downed man in the back of the head with a .22 isn't self defense.

They were likely dead....but I agree... In the end though, it was those 2 shots that sealed the conviction. That was pretty cold. But the gov't showed little compassion for him, in fact quite the opposite. The gov't displayed the persecution and vindictiveness that left an obvious choice for Dallas.

Dallas would have likely walked if he'd have just walked away after they were down.

No Thanks on Pinky!

This is gonna be one helluva report in Social Studies class!!!!

Alan

Claude who....

Wasn't there so I have no idea what led to the shootings.

What I do know:

Claude Dallas was poaching, setting illegal traps and in possession of illegal animals.

Maybe he was provoked, but his illegal activities is what arranged the meeting.

The fact that he shot them in the head after they were no longer a threat tells me all I need to know about Claude Dallas.

By committing this act, He was no longer trying to protect himself, but eliminating witnesses.

too early for beer and popcorn. Coffee and a donut maybe..

I have no dog in this fight but do have to wonder why Aces has a hard on for Pogue.



All through this thread his hatred of Pogue has surfaced. Did he have an interaction that he has not admitted to? Maybe he wanted to pull a Claude Dallas and did not have the guts, and is pizzed at himself. Seems strange to me. miles

I think Ace was drunk, or maybe just stupid....who knows.

Stupid sounds right.

I never met any of the people involved in this shooting , but from what i have read about this story , the best man won.

Pogue had a long reputation for being a bully. Elms was supposedly a nice guy who got pulled in. Back about the time that Dallas was released, we had a long discussion on here. Pogue's daughter got wind of it and joined the forum long enough to post her defense of him. I don't think she convinced anyone that he was a really nice, caring guy.

OMG, how did you even find this thread, or did you have it bookmarked for a special occasion? Is today your birthday?

Stale popcorn and flat beer. Into necro-threads, Steely?

Originally Posted By: AcesNeights
Wow.

I'm tipping a cold one to Mr.Dallas knowing that he's living out his life. Hopefully free from little di.cked, badge heavy bullies.

I suppose a large fraction of Alaskans that live subsistence lifestyles should hang for shooting and eating a deer (or whatever)?

But then again I was all for Randy Weaver....I'm sure you were pulling for the FBI and the Jap sniper.


you sir are not fit to even speak Randy's name and there was not one shred of similarity between the two incidents.

There is no justification for the coldblooded execution for two enforcement officers. Yours is an inane comment.

Why?

You that bored?

Azzhole cops aren't a new thing, and still seem to be gaining in popularity in some areas. Poaching isn't new either. Depending on what source you get your info from you will get a slanted point of view. This was one of many situations that go on all the time.

Bullies with Badges have clubs in every locale. I personally knew a gunshop owner that was harassed for years by the local cop. He had publically sworn he'd "get him" in the end. It eventually happend, and somehow the official statement made was that the shop owner shot himself (through the mouth, out the back of his head), which the responding cop felt threatened by his actions so he shot him twice in the chest from the side. It came out that he was bragging months later how he had set the guy up and turned him in to the BATF.

The county Sheriff and BATF agents were going in to "raid" his store. The BATF had been in several times due to the cops insistance there was something going on. They never found anything wrong.

On this day the local cop, who was outside the city limits, entered the business alone just before the sheriff and BATF arrived. I have no doubt what happened. His niece was a friend of ours and although he was a little different, he was a Vietnam Vet, actively participated in local events, donated to various local interests, and had no criminal record.

The acceptance of paramilitary police & police state mentality with a willingness to allow constitutional rights to be violated in the name of public safety is a slope we will not be able to climb back up without a lot of blood sweat and tears.

Your point is taken. However, the Claude Dallas incident happened nearly 35 years ago, long before the paramilitarization of law enforcement agencies.

I followed this story with great interest as it played out back then as I wanted to be a fish cop. I do not recall anything about Pogue being a bully.

Could just be the reporting, could be just the poor memory of a guy turning 50 in a couple of weeks, OR it could be revisionist history with people trying to justify a person's actions to fit their current view.

agreed....

AB2506, I get what you're sayin', and I'm not one who thinks he was innocent. I was very interested in this particular case as we hunted and trapped coyotes and bobcat in the SW corner of Oregon. In fact, my Dad said he thought we'd actually seen him once at a fur buyers place.

I just think we have seen a slow degradation in every bit of society. So much in fact that it has become increasingly hard to believe anything from any one source until you've played devil's advocate from both sides. It's been a long time getting to where we are. The truth usually lies in the middle.

Pogue was an A hole who loved his job and athority too much from the people we talked too. One was a F&G LEO in the area working Ore. desert, and he himself wondered how much of case against Dallas was a farce. He said he figured there may have been a ticket waiting but what was "extensive violations" may have been exagurated.

well i had to look up grouse creek ut. Heres your chance to own a section of land, play cowboy, and commune with the coyotes.
http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-search/Grouse-Creek_UT/type-land?source=web
Aint exactly a whole lot of people in the county.

Grouse Creek is actually about three Mormon families, Big ones. You'll be a REAL outsider there.

You're a straight shooter on the facts,L2s.

I respect your style.

Just another douchebag murder, nothing more. Fine if you need to shoot a deer to eat, I am ok with that, but in most places in the lower 48 it will get you arrested for poaching if caught, and either a fine or jail, mostly just a fine. Not worth going to prison for no matter how you want to slice it.

IIRC, the incident started over a bobcat Dallas had trapped. There was some question about which state he'd taken it in. I read somewhere that they had to do a survey to determine whether the killings had taken place in ID or NV. They thought that the game wardens might have been out of their jurisdiction. There's a lot of country out there and it would be very easy to be over the state line. GPS's weren't invented at that time. Even if that had been the case, it wouldn't have excused his execution style killings. It would have just moved the trial to Elko.

Funny how folks on here lack the ability to connect dots.

I was reading the Mad Trapper thread, which caused me to think about the Claude Dallas case so I did a search for it on the 'Fire and found this.

If you read what the rancher's son said it wasn't just living off the land...........
from the picture his statement painted Dallas was a serial game violator that did more than hunt for subsistence. Nazi mind set conservation officer mind set was also a factor.

This thread should have stopped right there. That will about cover it...

bump

why?

There was a book written about Claud Dallas. If I remember correctly it was titled "Outlaw: The True Story of Calud Dallas" If any of you are really interested. I have/had a copy but haven't seen it in years...

Never the less, it was murder. They were game wardens (law enforcement officers) and he murdered them in cold blood. He should have hanged.

Was Elms body ever located?

Yes, Elms' body was left at Bull Camp.

A few years ago, I talked to Sheriff Tim Nettleton about Pogue, Elms, and Dallas. It was quite interesting.

You are right so who was buried out in the desert and Dallas wouldn't tell where?

It goes back to the current thread on the guy shot by cops in Idaho. People getting too worked up and deciding to cause trouble. This new guy cv540 is not impressive in the least.

No cv540 is a an insecure punk looking for a fight or someone to bully. Just like Bill Pogue.

He was nothing but a damnned poacher who got caught. There was nothing romantic about his lifestyle. He was a thief and a piece of schidt.

My bad.

Nope. Dallas and I have nothing in common. I'm not a thieving poacher and a murderer.

I have a somewhat SERIOUS request to make of you.

ANSWER THIS....

WHY would you ask that question of any regular squared away poster on this site,....and where do you get off thinking that that sorta' nonsense will go unremarked ?

GTC

I was mistaken, and apologize for making offending post about the wrong Safari guy.

The fact that you aren't familiar with the term doesn't surprise me, and I'm dead sure a veritable host of others.

That's NOT an answer, and I've got no dog in any fight between you and WHOEVER you start to making serious call outs and accusations about here.

Looks to me like you dance around fluttering a little fan in front of your face, after tossing this crap out onto a fairly clean table.
WTF,...you some sorta gay geisha girl, boy, or it ?

GTC

.

Maybe someone confusing someone with Safariman?

You are right, that was my mistake, and I sincerely apologize I was wrong and meant no offence to Luv2safari, I will delete my words.

bwaaaahahhah I'm sorry, but that's funny. No offense to anybody intended. It's [bleep] funny as hell though!

But do you got any Rugger Charger's for sale without the mag?

Who and what is/was Claude Dallas?

Ask Siri or Jeeves?

In the other series of posts, I posted something, and you jumped on it. If anyone was looking for a fight, it was you.

After reading your posts on this thread it is plain that trying to carry on a rational discussion is futile.

Go try to bait someone else, these type of back and forths are pointless, and boring to read.

Dallas and the only non-participant/by-stander, Jim Stevens, carried Pogue's body many miles south, to the vicinity of Paradise Hill, NV, where Dallas buried it in a shallow grave.

I don't know if any of the 50 U.S. States has a provision that legally allows a person to hunt, trap, or fish out of season, or without a license, to "live off the land" and feed himself. Maybe in AK, because so much of the State is rural, but I don't know that.

When I was a kid, I knew poor people who regularly killed deer out of season for the meat, but in most cases they didn't have $$ to buy meat because they chose to spend their $$ in other ways. Here in Nebraska, I know a farmer who looked the other way when one of his hired men poached a few deer, but he quickly put a stop to it when the guy started shooting deer and only taking the better cuts of meat, leaving a fair amount of usable meat for the scavengers.

Getting back to Claude Dallas, I have always wondered why the local people who supported Dallas didn't seem to have any problem with the Carlins for calling Idaho Fish & Game to report illegal trapping on their BLM leases. If the Carlins hadn't made that call, it is likely that Dallas would never have encountered Idaho COs Elms and Pogue. Was it OK for the Carlins to report illegal, out of season, trapping, but not OK for the COs to respond and attempt to take action?

Consensus seems to be that Bill Pogue was a first rate dick.

That doesn't mean he should be killed while trying to perform his duties.

However, A Harvard study found that first rate dicks find themselves looking at the working end of a firearm more often than non first rate dicks.

Nope, but I do have a Ruger Charger for sale at a smokin price. It's only missing the gun, but the mag is minty.

Interesting thread...

Dallas was an idiot. In the shootout, he had both game wardens wounded and down. He could have claimed self defense and that would have likely ended it. However, he then shot them both in the head - cold blooded murder. He deserved worse than he got.

I've always been amazed at the non chalant way many people talk about the deaths of these two officers. Here in Texas we have what people would call hard asses as wardens in several parts of the state. They are well known and they don't cut anyone...any slack...for any reason. I can't help but think that the people that think this action was OK are the same kind of people that think it's OK to kill a prostitute simply because of what she does. What Dallas did was nothing short of murder. I can't help but think if the same thing happened here in Texas that someone would be facing the death penalty or life in prison w/o the possibility of parole. No one has ever said that the officers were ever doing anything but their jobs. Just never saw where all the hate for the two men came from. powdr

This is history , so who really gives a crap what happened in the camp two were killed he served his time , let it go

I got my doubts about Dallas subsisting on bobcat pelts. He was a licensed trapper caught with pelts before the season opened. He was a poacher plain and simple.

I got no opinion on the 2 game wardens who were killed, but have no issue with the law doing it's job on wildlife issues.

Cat House money...

Never had a chance to read all this thread.. I am going to take the time now.. I am sure it will be interesting!!

Probably just making it a little harder for them to testify against him.

Just a reminder of the Campfire nutcases.

Don't worry, the Campfire will never forget you.

Thanks for the trip down memory lane........again. Never hurts to be reminded who is who.....or what.

Maybe welcomed and supported by one of the Idaho/Nevada militia organizations?

Maybe Claude Dallas is now gainfully employed dealing Blackjack at a casino in Reno ... or managing a whorehouse in Winnemucca.

L.W.

Even money says SakoAV will post on here with a woodie for this guy...

YUP, lots of great and rational people on this sight, and then those who ain't.

This thread pretty much cuts through the grey and distinguishes black and white.

I love AcesNeights enjoying the cops getting killed in another thread too.

Can't blame him I guess, since he's serviced the blue line from his knees.