We don't have it tough at all here in eastern Oregon at 4,500 ft compared to many others here, but I've found it near comedy watching the news the last couple of days.

Two and 1/2 to 3 inches of snow in Atlanta, Ga and the place is paralyzed for 2 days. We wouldn't even break out the plows for 2 1/2 inches. The real travesty is that half the population is blaming the government for not warning them and/or failing to clear thousands of miles of streets and highways within an hour or so. I live on the other side of this nation, and even I knew it was coming. Don't they have phones, radios, or TV's there?

We can do 2 1/2 feet overnight, the buses run in the AM, kids get to school, and everyone goes to work. If there happens to be an away basketball game in the nearest town (70 miles one way), the team loads up and goes. Since the fall of 1982, they have canceled school exactly once in this community.

Over my life I've seen snow in Texas, Florida, and southern California. PREP FOR IT PEOPLE. Buy a shovel and some chains for your rig and practice installing/using both. With half of the new rigs being all wheel drive, there's not really that much need for chains in the first place. I get by 99.9% of the time with just good quality radials.

We have 5 rigs in our driveway, three have two sets of chains aboard, and the remaining two 1 set. In all of the years here (n=32), I've chained up once and that was at 7,500 ft in Wyoming on an elk hunt. Exercise a little common sense, and one can drive on packed snow and ice from Nov through Feb without incident.

IDIOTS!

Yep it is winter....deal with it!

people in south La. just aren't used to ice and snow....and the government nannies of course overreact to everything these days

I've got a 4WD pickup with mudders, but most people don't and wouldn't know how to drive if they hit ice anyway

now, if you'd like to try on a 20 foot storm surge for size, we'll talk weather wimps, amigo

Indeed. Nannystatism at its worst. They knew it was coming, they were warned, yet they got out on the road without any snow tires, sent the kiddies off to school, etc. Why didn't they just stay home? Why should the governor or the mayor be held at fault for these peoples bad decisions.

Why do you think I live in WY? I don't like being under water. People have forgotten the laws of physics

Went out of Homer halibut fishing during one of those. Only two boats left the harbor that day. We made it to the grounds, the captain announced our arrival, and then noted that we would not be staying. Amazing what a boat can get through.

That reminds me of a halibut fishing trip out of Neah Bay

yeah, I reckon you're safe unless you get a 7,000 foot storm surge.

Snow and ice for us isn't any different than heat for yall.

Quite true. We whine when it gets to 80 degrees, but we still get out and go.

++1

I took these pictures on I59 near my house yesterday. These are OTR truck drivers that drive all over the country in all kinds of winter weather and they still ended up in the ditch. It wasn't 2" of snow, it was 2" of mix that turned to a solid sheet of ice overnight. None of you snickering Yankees would have done any better on it. I've lived all over the country & driven in all kinds of winter weather, these roads were the worst I've ever seen. 2' of fluffy snow in Minnesota isn't the same. I'd love to have seen some of those running their mouths about "southern drivers" come & show us how it's done. They'd be the first in the ditch.

I lived in Texas when I was a kid and it gets hot here over 100 but no humididity dry heat. However at our elevation you would sun burn like an albino

Uh crow hunter....trucks end up like that here just because the wind blows....on a regular basis....ever seen half of a double wide modular home on its roof on an interstate exit ramp?

You got me there. It wouldn't be bad here if folks would just slow down in ice or snow,but they won't and we get what you see on the news. Me personally any thing below 30 is too cold, just makes my bones hurt. I have a lot of respect for those that keep on going when it gets cold like you have it.

I've seen them meteor movies and the tidal waves pard....

You are right, I don't know the first thing about driving on snow or ice.

Not many OTR tankers out and about and I cannot see chain racks on the van.

We had an unusually "bad" frost event here , in Sierra Vista, Az., and around the general western district, some recent years back.

Some valving, and "Apportionment" problems in the main NG line saw fairly large, and reputedly "Upscale" neighborhoods without Natural Gas service.

There were initial frost problems at some of the municipal pump stations. Think , "No speakee frezee", and a general paucity of basic Physics,......any gut therefor.

Without the forced air heat normally present in what I'd call the residential "Plastic Gin Palaces",.....the Water Company's flagging line pressure failed. Frost permeated poorly insulated outer walls, lines froze, and large blocks of homes were without NUTTIN'.

The well documented sequel to this MINOR event is what riveted me,....and attracted my somewhat morbid attention.

On the heels of this,.....ALL store shelves were virtually EMPTY of bottled water.

The crowds that had cleaned off the shelves re-formed again the following day,.......and there was NO bottled water.

Their's had all been expended FLUSHING TOILETS.

...we do have certain "standards" to maintain,....right ?



GTC

Why don't you come on down & offer up your vast experience next time. I'm sure we could use a few more sanctimonious experts to guide us.

I think you are in over your head with that comment...trade you some -30F weather tho...

and we got a Georgia storm last night...somehow we all made it to work even with all the Texan and Lousyanna and other southern workers up here...they learnt!

Ever seen a parked tractor trailer rig blown over in a parking lot?

The OTR truckers are normally the ones to start the pile up..As for your ice being different, well OK..Nearly every road out here besides the interstate is under ice most of the winter. But I'm sure folks who drive in those conditions every day dont have a clue, right?

Those pics are harsh! prayers sent.

You need to CALM DOWN,.....maybe go have a nap.

You're WAY over the line, posting this kinda' retarded nonsense in defense of some idiots that are Licensed, and trusted to KNOW better.

"OTR Drivers",.........not bloody likely, for what looks like a NORMAL day's weather in a vast region of this continent,....EVERY Winter.

Retired heavy hauler, that is 26 wheels and 105,500 GVW. Drove the passes into BC and AB. Have driven for days without seeing a black road. Drove on black ice across those same mountain passes. Spent at least a thousand miles on the slush and ice in those pictures. Never in a ditch, never had to be towed, never had a moving violation.

The trick is I did it all the time. Learned to drive in those conditions. Not fair to expect folks who don't see that kind of weather but once every five or so years to drive the same way.

How many time do truckers on a southern rout hang iron? I have done it six times in one day and that is chaining six drive tires and two or more drags. Only takes about fifteen minutes if you know what you are doing. Not a sanctimonious expert, gust know what I am talking about and not convinced those trucks pictured were experienced snow and ice drivers.

I went on a spur of the moment pronghorn hunt a few years ago..Great timing, it took me around 5 hours to go from Rock Springs to Sinclair, one big sheet of ice..Tho not as slick as Mississippi ice i'm sure..Alltho it was slick enough I could physically push my F350 PSD sideways on it, learned that when I pulled over to piss..I'd say thats pretty slick.

There was another time that an early snow storm shut down south pass on september 15th, I made it thru the gate on the lander side, but when I made Farson the gate was down and a line of tourists were screaming bloody murder..One lady at the gas station thought it was bad enough for the national guard to be called out.

Must suck to be so dependent on others.

This picture was taken the next morning on a neighborhood street. This is pretty much what every single square inch of roadway in North Georgia looked like 3 hours after the snow started falling - a sheet of ice that's anywhere from a half inch thick to an inch in a half.



Normally, they just close the schools if the forecast is for more than a dusting of snow. The forecast predicted a light dusting of snow and expected nothing of significance until after 4PM. Instead it started snowing heavily at 11am and it started sticking an hour later. All the school boards decided to let out schools - add 1.5 million cars, what could possibly go wrong.

You rarely if ever get snow that doesn't turn to a sheet of ice. Also, good you don't break out the plows we don't HAVE the plows. This city has grown from 2.5m people in 1980 to 6m in 2014. The majority of the populace are transplants from the Midwest and Northeast who have spent many years in cold climates. We've had many snows where it's nothing, just a powedered dusting and there are no incidents. This time was totally different, pure ICE almost immediately. We hear the same crap year after year from newbies to the area about how they can drive in it with no problems and quite a few of them get in accidents too, sometimes by their own doing other times from an out of control car.

I lived in Michigan in '98-'99 myself. Drove in thick snow plenty of times. The ice in Atlanta on Tuesday was nothing at all like anything I've ever driven in Michigan, Colorado, Montana, or Wyoming. You can have solid ice, I'll stay home.

People died, interstates gridlocked literally for 24 hours and people had to sleep in cars in Birmingham and Atlanta because of all the wrecks big rigs that couldn't be moved and there simply was no way to reroute people. Kids had to sleep at school and some were trapped on buses miles from home until the wee hours of the morning.

I see nothing comedic or wimpy about people's suffering but then again I saw it, yanked people out of ditches all day long, and shuttled stranded people home as opposed to armchair quarterbacking from a small town 2000 miles away.

Maybe so, but there are some mavericks out there, and they cause lots of trouble..Aint talking out my azz here, I drove wrecker for a few years, a famous hill close to here called rattlesnake is a killer, and usually someone bare footing up or down it too fast.

I do agree with Scott tho, those trucks in the pics dont look like an OTR rig during the winter months.

Yep...South Pass can be rather sporty in winter. I hunt antelope east and south of Farson. Got snowed in in Rock Springs the year I sent my oldest of to the Marine Corps. Youngest son and I went antelope hunting and passed on 2 good bucks because it was raining...little did we know....

Uh that was here this morning....with a little fresh snow on top of it...my wife drives 50 miles to work What I bolded in your post is comedic..people crash, wreck, get stuck because of their own stupidity...simple as that. Laws of physics haven't changed since the beginning of time. Armchair quarterbacking? You are a part time comedian ? Don't give up your day job......

Many drivers who have 4wd think it is the key to going (and, it may be) but they don't realize it usually gives little or no assist with stopping, and that is where most of the problems occur. Folks just drive too fast for the conditions and usually that will get you in the ditch, or worse.

Had to drive in most varieties of winter stuff early life in PA and later in the PNW and mountain west, and I feel that the quick developing sheet ice causes extra problems for most people. However, experience driving in such stuff, and the seat of the pants wisdom most sensible folks gain by doing it, makes a big difference when the conditions get so bad.

The average person in the southeast doesn't have such experience and, in the Atlanta situation, it seems clear that not much wisdom was applied to either prep or driving. Seemingly they can't conceive of the idea of sitting somewhere and staying off of the roads in a storm, and a whole lot of them could not figure out how to drive so they could stop as needed. Their blaming/complaining about the government guys is a lousy excuse for weak individual performance.

I do know what the hell I am talking about. Been there, done that, lived to tell about it.



My truck on the Crowsnest Pass. Google it.

You absolutely had to be here to actually appreciate the severity. It was literally a sheet of ice and gridlock. I know folks at Blue who didn't get home for 24 hours and many who actually slept in their cars.

Just think millions of fair weather folks dropped into the North Pole with their cars and SUV's.

Plows were of no use. If anything, they made it worse.

I remember the first time I came down the hill on I80 into Salt Lake in the winter. Every bridge was like a carnival ride with 45,000 pounds of bottled water helping me along.

I admit, trying to get around ATL or Birm in an ice storm would be nearly impossible..hell its nearly impossible in good weather.

Birmingham would be a special nightmare with all the hills, some pretty good slopes in that city.

I haven't heard anybody mention sand and salt? You don't plow ice, you sprinkle sand and salt on it.....

So you drove on a crowded interstate with 1.5 million other cars this morning trying to get home so their kids aren't trapped at school or alone mostly in passenger cars with summer tires? Sorry - I call bullshit on that...

So youse guys don't know the coefficient of friction reduces with ice? Uh that was here this morning....with a little fresh snow on top of it...my wife drives 50 miles to work Neanderthals....

Scott, they have a "death counter" road sign on that stretch now, I cant remember what its up to this year, but it gives you the pucker factor going down that canyon.

We have common ground,......I owned and operated a Towing and Recovery outfit in Alberta.

Know Roger's Pass WELL,......
Lake Louise
Sunshine
Kananaskis
Scott Lake Hill, West of Calgary,....etc.


WTF were the Ga. HIGHWAY PATROL,.....and WTF did they not CLOSE the highways , immediately the conditions went that bad, or more savvy-like ....BEFORE ?

Poor management, this.

Note that I did not say government,........THAT is what CAUSES this kinda' chit.

GTC

Sorry I can't fix their stupidity....laws of physics haven't changed since the dawn of time. call all the bs you want but be prepared to eat it

salt is only to keep the sand pile from freezing

Right hand on the wheel at the 2:00 position, left hand at the 10:00, death grip on the seat. Touch the break or hit the jake and you are done driving, maybe forever. When the drivers start to slip feather the accelerator and pray it straightens out.

It weren't that bubba!!! Nothing was even moving!!! I bet you western hillbillies ain't never even seen gridlock huh? I know people who were pizzed 'cos they wrecked trying to get to Waffle House. Purty sure that's what started it all.

Good to see ya back Keith!!

BTW this thing happened way outside of Atlanta. I was half way to ATL from South Carolina and hit the madness. I shot the median and went back home....just as your wife would have smartly done!!

Hey Scott - some photos - some country - some ice. Glad that was you and not me brother.

So what's your suggestion, just stay in the city and say to hell with your kids - just let them fend for themselves 30 miles away for three days until it thaws out?

Even if your are the best driver in the world (which perhaps you are no sarcasm intended) it's going to be hard for you to get anywhere when every road you can take is at a dead stop with gridlock.

How would you navigate such a snarl, and once you get off the highway it's going to look much the same. The particular road in this picture looked much the same at 2am as it did when this picture was taken.

Wife had to drive around a semi rollover this morning that blocked both lanes...idiots that can't drive are generally in the ditch here.

I am glad I am retired. Son was hanging iron to cross Snoqualmie night before last but he got lucky on the way back and they pulled the chain restrictions just as he hit the chain up lot. He drove right across and made it back to Caldwell, ID without any problems. I was warm and tucked between the flannel sheets wen he was out playing in the slop. I didn't miss it at all.

Stupid hurts...can't help ya there. As I said the rules of physics haven't changed since time started. IF ya can't help yourself why should someone else help your dumbass out? That is the problem with this world everyone wants help out of the predicament they got themselves into. You depend on someone else...I'll keep my own ass out of trouble. Have a good day. No sarcasm at all in this post.

One rule, not yet mentioned - turn OFF the cruise control!
I've driven on ice more times than I care to remember.
I've hit the ditch, both unintentionally, and intentionally to miss some fool doing something wrong.
I've seen the wind at Walsenburg, CO lay over a semi doing about 5mph (trying his BEST to get off I25, and park into the wind)
I once saw the wind blow a parked rig onto the shoulder (driver stopped on ice)
When ice is involved indoors is the place to be, whenever possible!
(Spectators aren't hurt nearly as often as participants)

Mark

agreed

Scott;
I hope this finds you and yours doing well so far this year.

When we first met as I recall you were running that rig up and back on the Anarchist, correct?

It's not the 7% grade on ice that's so bad there, it's the fog so thick you can't see the road.....

My hat is off to you and any other truck driver who can negotiate some of our passes in winter.

All the best to you and yours sir, we'll have to catch up sometime.

Dwayne

I can't say I've ever met a decent person that find humor in elementary school kids getting panicked and stuck on buses while their parents are coming unglued because they were stuck in utter gridlock trying to get to them. But hey if it's not you or your kids, eff em - right?

I appreciate how dangerous that is, as well for folks not accustomed to driving in those conditions.

There's ice, and then there is slick ice!

Put an inch of 35* rain on that ice and you'll find out what we've been dealing with for the last month.

Polar vortex works 2 ways!

It's all about the Kids.

Probably a 20' tide change. Storm surge is different.

Whatever it was it came with 50-60 mph winds and a driving rain. I think the tides can do 20 ft up there on a calm day. The boat did a lot of surfing on the way back in. We were most definitely not on autopilot.

As to ice: Good hard frozen ice is a cinch to drive on and the colder the better. One looks well ahead and any shift in ones controls is executed as gently as possible. Cruise control is certainly a no no as are sudden braking and acceleration. Four wheel drive is great for getting under way, but can also be a hinderance on ice if much in the way of steering is needed.

My wife is especially fond of front wheel drive in slick conditions. If the rear end comes around on her rig, one has most certainly lost it.

We have a couple passes that can be a bear here in Oregon around Pendleton and LaGrande. One can get stopped there and watch parked big rigs slide sideways into the median. Locals told the federal engineers to use alternate go arounds during the I5 build, but they insisted on taking the shortest route.

The condition I fear most is about 3 to 6 inch deep wet slush when one must make lane changes. I rarely try to pass anyone under those conditions.

Capt was an idiot to leave Homer in those winds!

We all bitch and moan about governments overspending here. All the time, we bitch and moan about it.
Atlanta DIDN'T spend money on plows, or sand and salt (probably wasted it on other things), but now folks want to bitch at 'em for NOT spending money on stuff they wouldn't use but 1 time in 30 years??
Time to get a grip here, folks. No, they weren't prepared, but you normally don't prepare for what is probably a lifetime event for Atlanta.
Pretty nasty parochialism for this crowd, even. Lighten up, folks.

SHOULD HAVE STAYED IN PORT, AND SNAG IN THE SNAG HOLE,,LOL

I agree. Roughest ride I've ever had and one of the few times I was seriously worried about my families safety. Had the life jackets on all the way in.


Back on the ice deal: The road troops out here sling volcanic cinders on the pavement around the intersections and on the sharpest curves. All scooped up locally and really cheap. The cinders don't expedite rust like the salts and turn to dust and blow away after things melt and dry out. They do chip a lot of windshields though.

Eek, that sounds pretty miserable!

I don't think wouldn't have been an issue if it happened overnight - barely anyone would have ventured out and the kids wouldn't have gone to school. I can't think of a time where we were hit by iced roads in the middle of the day like what happened Tuesday, but maybe some of the older farts that I remember otherwise. Add a million plus cars trying to get home on that fresh ice all at once and it was guaranteed to be an epic cluster.

A blanketing of ice in Georgia is probably about as frequent as 85+ degree days in Anchorage. I've been bass fishing with temps in the high 60s and even low 70s numerous times in Georgia and Alabama in January. The temps will be back in the 60s again this weekend.

Whatever, rookie. Your experience has nothing to do with this. Your input on something you've done professionally dealing with for decades is unacceptable. Those that have witnessed an icy road a few times in their lives and have seen a few inches of snow paralyze travelers, as it's not something they even get most winters? Well hell, THEY know what they're talking about!

Ya ain't lived until you've spent winter on the edge of the north Caspian Sea among the folks that are essentially the first generation becoming mobile.

Though a bit better, when it was bad in Alberta, well, it was bad.

Try Chinatown in a blizzard. The HORROR, dude, the HORROR!

I will discover a few of months of Korea next week. Thankfully winter is winding down. Friggin bicycles everywhere. I have visions of 5 O'Clock Charlie from MASH...

LMAO.. Too true.. It's why I built this house on the highest point in this field that was close to the road.. I NEVER have to worry about floods..

But this winter (here) has been nearly one for the books; with 18 days in January with snowfalls that need to be moved. I haven't seen the roads and ditches so full of snow since '81-'82. And we got Feb/Mar left which are normally those with the heavier snowfalls. Even with a pretty serious blower on the tractor - I'm not sure just where it's all going to go..

Steve_NO is also experienced in driving up Nort' as his progeny went to the halls of higher learning up in this neck of the woods. I believe I can actually hear his evil laugh as he drives by other Lousyanna folks stuck in a ditch.

you made one statement, that is the crux of all the problems being experienced on the roads in Georgia etc...

you said when the roads are covered with ice... you will stay at home...

that is simple common sense...but sadly common sense, isn't so common....

people should stay at home, but they don't...

they still get out there and don't go slow enough for the conditions...plus they don't have the tires or chains to go thru that ice covering the roads...

they can't figure out, putting on the brakes and heading toward a stop sign at the bottom of the hill, they aren't going to be able to stop on ice, going downhill...so if they have to be out.. they should avoid routes that they encounter that sort of problem...

but you hit the nail on the head... stay at home!!!!

99% of the southern drivers did just fine in the ice and snow we had earlier in the week. We had the same conditions in more rural areas away from Atlanta. The problems came when 1-2 vehicles, usually truckers, got sideways in the road and blocked everyone else. Because there were far fewer vehicles on the road here, and alternate routes were available when a blockage happened, we were able to keep most traffic moving and tow trucks could get to the stuck vehicles. In Atlanta once things stopped moving everyone was trapped. There was no way to get help to the handful of vehicles who couldn't move.

I blame local weather forecasters for 2 reasons. First of all the prediction was for a light dusting of snow starting at 4 PM. Schools and businesses made decisions based on that forecast. Local schools cancelled all after school practices, games and other activities and called off school at 1PM as a precaution. Many businesses planned on closing around noon as well. That decision was made the night before. Snow started at 10 AM here and was certainly more than a dusting. Kids were supposed to have been home hours before this started. Instead, it put all of the traffic on the roads just at the worst times.

The 2nd problem is that local weather forecasters like to use the "S" word in their forecast. It gets ratings up when mentioned. This is the 4th or 5th time snow has been mentioned in the forecast as a possibility since November. Tuesday is the first snowflake I've seen here this year. People get to a point where they don't really believe it until they see it falling.

Several years back my Crew and I were working in Little Rock, Arkansas, and the weather guessers were predicting ice. In fact it was moving up I-30 from Texarkana, and you could track the progress. This was on a Thursday and we would leave the Motel and go home the next day, so I called our office and asked them about checking out of the motel early enough so that we did not have to pay Thursday night, and just go home when the ice started. Their position was that higher up had said nothing about leaving early, so stay until you hear from us. When the ice hit Benton, just a few miles down the road, I sent the crew home, on that had to drive all the way to Ft. Smith, while I stayed for a while thinking that I would hear from the office. Never did. It started icing so I tried to head home and was in the awfullest mess that I ever saw. I was in a 4WD truck and could go anywhere I wanted, except for abandoned cars. I was in west Little Rock, which is hilly and people would spin a little, then get out, lock their car up and walk off. I did make it out of Little Rock, but I drove on sidewalks, up one way streets the wrong way for a little while, on the shoulders of I-30, in the median, just anywhere to get around the cars. They were doing the same thing on the interstates and people walking everywhere. There were people walking across the Arkansas River bridge in I-540 and there is nothing for a long ways after you cross the bridge. I don't know what people were thinking but it was the craziest thing I eve saw. miles

Nope...you need to see a doc and get that bug removed..it is twisting your logic. Seems the blame for that falls with the schools and the parents for sending them when they knew the weather was going to be too much for them to handle. It is called accepting responsibility for your own actions.

Always pisses me off when the "authorities" blame a storm for people dying...the storm is a factor but peoples choices and actions are the reason they die in a storm.

As a kid in Big Spring, Texas when we had an ice/ sleet blizzard, we would grab a big shovel to sit on the street at the top of the hill and slide down the road about a quarter mile.

In all honesty I don't think wyoming really gets the ice storms that wetter parts of the country do. Wydot calls a sheet of white ice ( that is usually just snow that melted and then froze again) black ice. I've never seen ice in wyoming that compared with a true ice storm I once saw in western Oregon.

It sounds a little stupid to be talking about different kinds of ice, but a true ice storm will make walking a real challenge.

I saw a teacher in Atlanta being interviewed about staying overnight at the school with the stranded students. She said the kids loved it, thought it was just a big sleep over. Meanwhile moms and dads are in a panic over trying to get to the school.

When people left in the morning it was sunny and cool but nothing out of the ordinary. As JMR40 said, they've called for snow 4-5 times this winter and we've not had a single snowflake. The prediction was for at worst a light dusting with a 30% chance of snow showers after 4 pm. The point the national media likes to ignore is that "forecast" for significant weather was changed after people were already at work and school merely expecting a dusting, and even then the models and various weather reporting systems / channels did not agree.

So once again - expectations = "dusting" reality - more than 3" in many areas that turned promptly to ice.

Contrary to what some of you want to believe there was no forecast of an imminent significant weather event to occur during business / school hours until well after it was too late. I'm not blaming anyone in this case, but the weather forecast missed the boat badly and traffic cluster the worst I've ever seen was the result.

Glad to hear you came out OK David. I was wondering how you guys made out.

There is a little bit of condescension creeping in. I know, I know, I've driven in blizzards and snowstorms and seen some really nasty conditions too. I have the requisite (for a mountain boy like me) 4 wheel drive with real live snow tires and, yes, I have been in one my whole life and know just what they can and cannot do.

But in the end this comes down to one thing and one thing only: Money.

In spite of what some here believe you can get ahead of most real live ice storms and keep the roads drivable. Or at the least get them cleaned up fairly quickly. I've seen it done. And what happened there was not a real live ice storm anyway, it was a wet, heavy snow that got packed down into ice. And yes, a proper treatment of the roads before and during the storm would have prevented this mess.

But it costs a lot of money. And takes coordination. And practice. The Atlanta area chose not to invest in storm readiness. And they'll most likely continue to do so. A storm like this don't happen that often.

But these southern lads are completely right in one respect: Once that stuff gets packed into ice you are done. Unless you have chains or straps and a pretty nimble touch on the wheel you are done. And that ain't gonna help you a damned bit on an interstate that is packed concrete barrier to ditchline with a million cars that don't have the proper equipment.

A man can look down his nose at them if you want, but even if you had all the great equipment in the world you'd have likely been sitting in traffic cussing up a storm just like those poor boys down there were doing.

Will

Good point about the cruise control.

The thing that I see coming out of this is that in the future the weather-guessers will be even more inclined to throw out warnings - ones that cover even wider areas and longer time-frames than they do now. Providing warnings instead of information will allow them to say, "I told you so" without really telling us anything of useful value.

Kamo Gari - my man, you are cool! Hope it came across. Best to you.

The back and forth "chat" is interesting. By and large, isn't it true that we measure most human performance by how well folks prepare and plan beforehand, how they behave under pressure (particularly new challenges), and how they then reflect on their own responsibilities and deal with the aftermath?

If it's not new ice, it will be something else - eh?

Damnit John, that's a negative attitude. I agree 100% but it still a pretty poor attitude toward our fellow man.

Will

Weather Wimps - remember the picture last summer of Obama in a very lite rain and the umbrella.

Will - a few years ago, there was a tornado somewhere down south (Alabama?) that came out of the blue, without any alert being issued. Following this, I noticed that "tornado watches" were basically issued on the first of April, effective until the end of September, with "tornado warnings" being not only much more frequent, but covering larger areas for longer periods of time. I asked a member of one of the local television stations (who has since gone on to other work) about this and he told me that the National Weather Service had decreed that no such thing would happen again, hence the policy of over-warning. I think that the fable of the boy who cried wolf is apt reading. Best, John

some years ago a high wind in northern NV turned over a UPS set of triples doing all of 15 mph. At that time, they had a zero accident policy and were going to fire him but the union brought in a bunch of witnesses who said that he would have gone over even if parked (apparently a few did). He kept his job.

Lots of know-it-all Monday morning quarterbacks here from the looks of it. I have driven in snow, sleet and ice up north and in the mountains many times, but this time was different.

All of the forecasters got this one wrong and it happened really fast. All of the schools and places of business let out at the same time. The roads would have been jammed no matter what, but this turned to a sheet of solid ice within about an hour. A few jackknifed 18wheelers later and all of the major roads are parking lots.

I managed to navigate through it here in B'ham using side roads and got home from work, but it took me 10 hours. It is true that lots of people down here don't have experience driving in snow, ice etc., but the real problem was the truck drivers (from all over the country I might add) jackknifing and blocking entire roadways.

It is obvious that some people here were not taught as youngsters to keep their mouth shut when they do not know what they are talking about.

Yep, just like those dumb idiots killed by tornados in Oklahoma. Idiots should have taken weather forecasts as set in stone and gotten underground. Taken responsibility. Only stupid people suffer from weather. <sarcasm>

I was referring to rai, ice and snow...I should have specified, but I figured most people were smart enough to see that. I guess one needs to fill in all the blanks here .

Well, guh-huh, guh-huh, guh-huh...we'ze iz frum the souf there Capt. and sure nuf not smart & expurt like you! Ours peoples diez frum tornaders too...we'ze jest too stupid to git outta the wayz!


By the way. Per the conversation, the snow isn't the problem....this thread was talking about ice. Not snow or rain. Maybe you need some blanks filled in. Ya think?

Lots of born again socialists in Atlanta the last couple of days.

Yup...snow and cold never shut things down here, but let it rain on everything after it's been below 0 for awhile and we're down for the count. A lot of the roads in the Fairbanks area still had ice on them from the November rain when the latest round of freezing rain hit a couple of weeks ago.....not fun!

At times, unanticipated events will catch folks and do them harm - history is replete with same. Interesting though - haven't seen any prominent news features or emotional interviews with folks who wisely avoided getting caught by the mess down there.

Another member needing a bug removed. Ya you're right we never see ice No tornados here either. It is utopian paradise but don't tell anyone.

I'll go back and correct my post for you...

Amazing, the number of people who behave like they've never seen an act of God before.

I have seen clear ice on the roads a few times and it is very difficult to deal with even if one is experienced.
Tips:
Drive with one set of wheels on the shoulder where you are more likely to find some traction.
Drive WAY ahead of your car. Don't get surprised by someone else's mishap.
If something goes wrong in front of you, don't hit the brakes; hit the ditch. When in the ditch, get as far from the highway as you can to avoid getting hit from behind.
When you start to slide in your 4WD SUV, you are probably gone. Don't push it.
I have been on a road which was so slick my four wheel drive diesel would lose speed going up a very gradual incline. So slick that I could easily push the stopped truck around; if I could get traction for my feet, that is.
In truth, drivers in the north do not have to deal with extreme conditions such as those seen in Georgia very often. The roads in the northwest are usally kept pretty clear because everyone cries like babies if they are not. Fifty years ago, roads were not salted and the highways dept. did not attempt to keep them bare and dry all winter long. When we lived in northern BC back in the fifties, there were boxes of sand with a scoop shovel provided on hills for travelers to use if conditions were too bad.
Today, eastern Washington scools are closed or buses running late if they get 6 inches of snow. When we were kids, the lady driving our bus put chains on if it got bad. GD

It's simply a textbook example of bad road conditions, an unprepared road crew and millions of people trying to get home at the same time. Remember the disaster on Lake Drive in Chicago a few years ago? Same schit.

I can tell which people on this thread have never lived in a city...north or south.

this thread is funny! who woulda thought ice and snow are different down south.
Please teach me new stuff about your neck of the woods.
what temp does water freeze down there?
are you allowed to call it "black ice" when it exists, or am I being racist? (for those who don't know, look it up before responding)

what happened was you guys got a snow storm, congrats! I'd be willing to bet 99% of those who live down there have either A.never seen one
B.never driven/lived where they have them frequently
C.those who have, have been gone long enough to forget how to drive in them

hell we have folks here who every fall when it snows have to relearn how to drive. most don't drive cautiously and are oblivious to anyone else besides themselves.
what is funniest to me is the bread and milk shortages. out here beer is the first thing to be gone from the shelves.
BWAHAHAHAHA

so what if your highways and roads are closed for a few days, stay the [bleep] home! a little common sense goes a long ways. and for those of our members here who did know but just got trapped in the chaos, that sucks. sorry for you. but the ones whining that not enough was done by other people (especially in govt) STFU. you are ultimately responsible for your own well being.
welcome to winter bitches!

look up winter storm Atlas before you start flaming

Shortly after I got my DL at 16, I was driving one of the family barges through the Connecticut countryside, getting in a little practise, with my mother riding shotgun and my two younger siblings in the back seat. Weather forecasting in the 1960s was not sophisticated enough to tell us we were going to get caught in a freezing ice storm 20 miles from home.

We did not complain, or blame the government for failing to forecast the storm.

My mother, exercising her executive authority, bullied me into pulling into a service station, where a pimply-faced lad of 19 or 20 years, volunteered to drive us all to our home, in his car, on the sole condition that my mother keep absolutely quiet the whole way. That was a tough pill for her to swallow.

It was Mr. Toad's Wild Ride. He was a damn good driver on ice. (And my mother damn near wet herself.) My dad had to drive me back the next day in his car to pick up my mother's car, which we had left at the service station.

We did not blame the government for the fact that we had to abandon our car overnight. But Americans were made of hardier stuff in those days.

(That last crack was not directed toward anyone on this thread, BTW.)

Also, don't select the tow/haul mode if you want slow down when going down an icy hill.

Yep. And Atlanta traffic is horrible on a good day in good weather! Add ice, then it only takes one or two knuckleheads and, wham, you have gridlock. Getting stuck in a traffic jam through no fault of your own doesn't make one an idiot. In ice I wouldn't drive across those raised viaduct roadways at the I85/I285 interchanges in my 4WD if I were the only one out there! I don't even want to think about it in "normal" traffic!
Thank goodness I don't live there. But I take a twice annual trip to Atlanta for business and have for over 15 years. I HATE driving in Atlanta. Wouldn't live there for love nor money...but I don't fault those who do nor condemn them all to the stupid camp because the city is ill-equipped to handle ice and snow.

I saw a guy make a house out of black ice a while ago.

I don't know what to call it, but I think we can rule out "niglu"...

John

I didn't have one of those. I just had thirteen speeds and a two position Jake.

But then I just learned I don't know nothing about driving let alone in truck eating southern weather.

these are the same OTR truckers who wind up in the creek just west of town here because its the first time they descended down a couple of thousand feet in elevation in a few short mile, then people claim there are not enough warning signs. If your driving through the mountains and look a head you will notice prairie way below you and not that far in front of you , most people in Motor homes and trucks slow down, stop at the brake check with flashing light and give the brakes time to cool off. Not southerners, they are always the ones in the creek .

Just don't call it thug ice.

Hit a long, felt like a mile, patch of black ice about 60 going across Wyoming one night. Being clear ice you don't see it in the lights until you're on it. The Interstate was clear and dry all the way up to it. Fortunately the road went straight and so did the car until it (gradually) slowed down to a safe speed.

Hint to southerners. Squashing the pedals or jerking the wheel breaks traction and gets you into a skid. Plan ahead so you can react slowly, like start to slow down gradually way before you normally would at that icy intersection.

Well, anyone who has driven through Atlanta knows it sucks...in good weather. Anyone who has driven through Atlanta knows how crazy the drivers are if there is ANY moisture and will know it sucks 10x worse. Now throw in some ice and you have ice zombies attacking the highways eating brains and not an AR15 in sight!

My wife sat in that crap for nine hours stressed out of her mind for a mere 12 miles. We both grew up in Cincinnati and anyone who lived there for any length of time knows how crappy that weather is and are well seasoned to drive in about anything.

If the news calls for flurries or extreme cold the counties will typically call off schools for the day(s) in advance and take a beating for being such "weather wimps." When the weather folks predict less than an inch and everything was going to be south of the city right up until the first flurries hit the ground and it turned out the complete opposite on both counts and the county follows their advice...you get called weather wimps. So I guess your better off being overly precautious than being caught with your pants at your ankles.

Denver is a pretty large city for the mountains but has 645,000 people and Atlanta probably had twice that amount of people hit the roads at one time in their vehicles on a 3 major highway bottleneck that became a hockey rink within 2 hours. You could call it a clusterfuk and be damn skippy saying so.

Greater Atlanta will never budget Chicago's ice trucks because this typically happens about every 3 or 4 years for 1 or 2 days at a time.

This is a classic example of why you should never put your trust in the government to bail you out and the weatherman even less! But even moreso, convince your boss that your not a pussy and let you head home early before it gets worse!

We use our initiative and stay home when it gets bad. Don't need no steenkin' mayor to tell us it's a bad idea to drive in a bad storm.

South Dakota

Sums it up rather nicely.

Still not getting it. It did not turn bad or even look like it was going to turn bad until everyone was already at work/school. It happened unexpectely and went bad within a couple of hours time. Damn, there are some thick-headed people here.

So tell me have I or not?

Something like that (grin)

Huh?


http://www.metrodenver.org/demographics-communities/demographics/population.html


Population

Metro Denver has a population of nearly 2.9 million people, and has a growth rate that has consistently outpaced the national rate every decade since the 1930s. The region grew steadily in the past 10 years. And by 2020, Metro Denver's population is anticipated to increase to more than 3.2 million.

To proactively plan for the region's growth, the Denver Regional Council of Governments (DRCOG) created Metro Vision 2035, a long-range strategy that addresses land use planning, development, and transportation while preserving Metro Denver's unparalleled quality of life. Metro Vision concentrates development in a defined 750-square-mile urban growth boundary and identifies guidelines for nearly 70 high density, mixed use developments in the region, many around transit centers.

A large portion of Metro Denver's population growth is due to in-migration of highly educated workers from other states. Net migration represented one-third of the region's total population change between 2002 and 2012. Metro Denver is estimated to have net-migration of 15,400 residents in 2012. The top states for in-migration are California, Texas, Arizona, and Florida.

Metro Denver also ranks first among large U.S. metros for total population gain in the 25- to 34-year age group between 2008 and 2010.

Northern Colorado's 2012 population is 572,967, with roughly 54 percent of the population located in Larimer County and 46 percent located in Weld County. Between 2002 and 2012, Northern Colorado average annual population growth (2.1 percent) was significantly faster than growth reported statewide (1.4).

Now here's a fella that knows about driving in ice and snow, Georgia style.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=cdc_1391142748

I dunno, but you do enjoy stirring the schit.

Yes I do, a little wry humor at southerner's expense. Or an attempt at it. The difference up here is we've had enough experience with forecasts being not spot on to err on the side of caution. And the consequences of "missed it by that much" with a blizzard can be much more severe.

I think you mean brizzard.

You're welcome.

If we were to err on the side of caution we would be lampooned by you very same people for not going in to work/school over a couple of inches of snow. This is just another excuse to make fun of us poor dumb Southerners. Normally I would not care, but this is the time that put me over the top.

had to post this




so you guys down south had just ice magically form on the roads? and there wasn't more than 6 hours notice? hmmmm, I wish I could run a cable from my house to yours because we even heard the south was going to get hit by snow and cold 2 days before it happened. that I didn't know, I'm sorry. I'll post up weather I hear for all ya'll when it's sounding bad.

Don't let it get you down TnBigBore, just guys having some fun.

Hell I have thousands of miles in 4 wheel drive under my belt starting at the age of 16 and I've put them in the ditch, and over the hill once too. Get out and about in all kinds of bad weather and your luck will run out eventually. Pride cometh before a fall they do say.

Hell the closest I've ever come to cashing in was during the blizzard of '93 and that came about solely as a result of pride. Not my pride mind you, but pride nonetheless. Me and my brother were riding with my uncle back from a trip to pick up grapes and put up a batch of wine. Started in on what a POS the old 4 wheel drive my uncle drove was. Next thing you know he's taken a left hand turn to go up over a pretty bad mountain. It was bad enough at the bottom. At the top it was murder.

A full afternoon of trying to get him unstuck resulted in nothing more than all of us being frozen solid to our clothes, completely exhausted, and buried under a couple feet of snow in 20 degree weather and winds howling like a bat straight out of hell. All of it miles from any help whatsoever. We had one six pack of beer, 10 pounds of grapes, a can of sardines, and a couple cans of Copenhagen... I said the hell with it and walked off that mountain after talking the others into leaving the truck. We left right before dark and it probably saved our lives. Never forget that walk out.

Anyhow pride is a dangerous thing. Get ice on the road and you can almost see the Grim Reaper smiling through the windshield at you.

Will

Sankyoo.

Will,

True enough, should not let it get to me. I remember the Blizzard of 93 very well myself. I drove from Knoxville, TN to Birmingham, AL during the height of that one. It took me about nine hours and I was in a two wheel drive Ford F-100. Birmingham got 17", Chattanooga got 21" and Knoxville a similar amount. Luckily I knew enough even back then in my 20s to put a few bags of sand in the bed over my rear wheels and take it slow and easy. That was just snow though, and not a solid sheet of ice. The weather people did get that one right. They had just cried wolf so many times before that winter that most did not believe it would actually happen.

Thanks for the correction eh76. The same logic for Atlanta would be 443,000 for a populous. "Metro" makes the difference, Atlanta creeps on double the populous of Denver's. And take it from anyone who lives in or near Atlanta, there isn't, wasn't and ain't gonna be any planning for an increased populous. DRCOG sounds like they're suffering the same BS visions for accommodating an increased populous that Atlanta has touted since the Olympics.

Just so that everyone knows that the South isn't the only place that gets adverse winter storms, I just had to post this:

Snow in Vancouver!

Chilled Vancouver commuters faced their second day of winter hell today, as an additional � centimeter of the peculiar white stuff fell, bringing the lower mainland to its knees and causing millions of dollars worth of damage to the marijuana crops. Scientists suspect that the substance is some form of frozen water particles and experts from Saskatchewan are being flown in. With temperatures dipping to the almost but not quite near zero mark, Vancouverites were warned to double insulate their lattes before venturing out.

Vancouver police recommended that people stay inside except for emergencies, such as running out of espresso or biscotti to see them through Vancouver 's most terrible storm to date. The local Canadian Tire reported that they had completely sold out of fur-lined sandals.

Drivers were cautioned to put their convertible tops up, and several have been shocked to learn that their SUV's actually have four wheel drive, although most have no idea how to use it.

Weary commuters faced soggy sushi, and the threat of frozen breast implants. Although Dr. John Blatherwick, of the Coastal Health Authority reassured everyone that most breast implants were perfectly safe to 25 below, down-filled bras are flying off the shelves at Mountain Equipment Co-op.

"The government has to do something," snarled an angry Trevor Warburton. "I didn't pay $850,000 for my one bedroom condo so I could sit around and be treated like someone from Toronto ."

HAHAHAHAHA that is funny!

Good afternoon Dwayne. I hope this find you and your beautiful family well.

Yes, I was driving you wonderful and beautiful Anarchist hill. It was freezing fog and or snow and ice most of the times I crossed it. Made no difference if I was headed up or down it always was a fun drive. Sometime I would like to make that trip in summer. Same thing with the trips to Calgary, only got sent there in winter.

That hill just north of your place while not really tall sure was sudden if I remember it right as well as that little hill dropping into Kelowna.

But heck, if it was easy what fun would it be.

Hauled paper north through your home town and south with OCC (recycled cardboard) many a time. It was my normal run from port Townsend Paper Co to Crown Packaging in Kelowna for about five years. I love that country.

Thanks for straightening me out. Now I see where I was wrong.

Yup, just like the way we northerners get lampooned for living in a frozen hell. I take it to be in good fun and mean it the same way. BTW, was a southerner at some points in my life.

Sat a a dock in Calgary one morning when it was about 20F and so much fog I could not see the back of my trailer. When the had me loaded and the customs all figured out I headed south on Hwy 2. It was ice covering everything. Trucks, 4X4 pickups, SUVs and cars all over the shoulders and and upside down. Drives slipping even with axles locked and differentials locked. Trailer trying it best to pass me. The further south I got the better the roads got. Road was looking almost dry when I came to Hwy 3 and turned west to cross the Crowsnest the mountains were gone in a solid gray cloud of snow. Road turned white and I did not see a black road until the next day when I hit I-90 after spending the night in Bonner's Ferry. But black roads did not make things any better. The picture of my antenna icing up was taken on I 90 just west of Spokane. That was a fun trip.

I believe this is what caused the problem. It is hard to know when to stay home when your information is faulty.

Sorry to be so touchy about the subject. I know you meant no offense. You just happened to be the 100th or so person to bring it up.

If it makes you down south fellers feel any better, there is no shortage of maroons up here that can't drive in the winter.

Heck I can beat that. In Seattle every year in the first clear day on Spring the accident rate skyrockets. Those who move her in winter see the mountains for the first time and forget about driving. Causes some really big tie ups.

On the flip side comon down in the Spring, Summer and Fall months and try running thru downtown Atlanta and outlying interstates at speeds of more than 90. On my trip to Atlanta last week a train of cars passed me and I was running freaking 85+. They will flat out run over you down this way.

What's funny is to see all the mid-west folks heading back from the beach with white knuckles on the wheel. And rightly so.

Wrong and that's horseschit! I've seen the same situation in El Paso, TX or how about when Las Vegas. NM got dumped on several years ago to the tune of 3 or 4 ft. Heck they had to close I25 there.



Lived in several...I hate them all. I will even drive around Denver when I can.

I don't know how people didn't know that there was a significant chance for some bad winter weather (Ok�.bad winter weather for the South ) on the way. I guess it could happen if you just don't follow the news at all, but it is hard to imagine that someone that you would run into wouldn't ask if you were ready for the ice & snow. The women knew and passed the word, because it was a great reason for them to do some mega shopping! And they almost never shop alone! People had to know it was coming.

I did all the usual things I do if I expect to be stuck at the house and the power to be off for several days. I got some firewood from the farm, checked my propane tanks, got mantels for the lanterns, bought some fresh batteries, got two or three good books, filled three or four five gallon cans with gas for the generator and found a bucket so we could flush the toilet with pool water. My wife made a huge pot of the best soup I have had in a long time, as well as a big pot of chile and picked up some stuff that would be easy to cook on the grill. We could have taken in another family and done fine. So could most of my neighbors and friends.

We were ready, but we missed the ice storm that shut down Atlanta. Didn't miss a day of work, no ice on the roads and the tires on my FJ haven't spun since I got stuck in the mud last summer. The worst part was I probably put back on the 5 pounds I've lost since Christmas.

The only bridge I see on the way to the shop, has sand on it since it might get slick. Putting out sand is about all the county can do and I hope that they don't go out and buy a bunch of snow plows and salt spreaders. It would be a huge waste of money. We can deal with the little snow & ice we get every 4 or 5 years. It is kind of like out west where they don't use bridges. They just pave the road down in to the dry wash and put a sign up telling people not to enter if it is full of water. If the wash only only fills rarely, the sign is cheaper and people will just have to figure out another way around it. We have signs on the bridges saying that they may ice before the road�.Problem dealt with. I don't expect any more out of the county government.

People that live in the city of Atlanta may see it a little different, but that is their problem, not mine.

I grew up living in Upstate New York. From the Watertown area on the Tug Hill Plateau, in the thick of the Adirondacks, to the Capital District Area in Gloversville, to the Southerntier in Delhi, to the Rochester Area in Lima/Avon.

I know winter. I am very experienced in winter driving. I took my drivers license test in a foot of snow in the middle of April.

I now live in Alabama.

I find it funny when my friends half a nation away think they know better than everyone here. They like to say that we should have KNOWN that all hell was going to break loose because the National News said that hell was coming.

Here is a newsflash. Here in Alabama, we tend to be staunch right leaning people that have learned to ignore the National News. We tend to focus more on what the local news is saying.

The public DID NOT KNOW anything other than the fact that it was supposed to get cold. Local news talked about cold, they did not talk about ice, expect on bridges, or snow.

We don't have the equipment, nor the materials, nor the ability to distribute the materials to treat the roads like I'm familiar with up north. No salt, no trucks with the ability to distribute the salt. No sand or the ability to distribute it. No embers nor the ability to distribute the embers. Hell, we don't even usually have 4 season or snow tires available for our cars.

Hell, is snows here about once a decade so it's an absolute waste to put the money into that equipment and material. Instead, we're smart enough to know that we don't have that available to us here, so instead, we close up shop and stay off the roads.

Crossfireoops was right. the management of this was a catastrophe. There were conflicting weather reports as to what was going to happen. So, they screwed up by assuming that it was not going to have precipitation, but instead was only going to be cold.

All that set the stage for a perfect nightmare. Nothing was closed, so people went to work, and kids went to school. They drove in the cold, and on the ice, and did okay, not great, but okay. As well as could be expected from people that only see snow or ice maybe once a decade and lack the tires, or road treatment to help.

While at their schools, and at their jobs, the precipitation began to accumulate, catching everyone off guard. The word went out that things were getting bad, so schools let out, and jobs sent people home....... all at the exact same time!

Grid lock happened. That would have happened the same way on a perfectly hot summer day if everyone tried to get on the road at the same time.

With the gridlock came the ice. Hills are everywhere, and as somebody pointed out, physics still works. Cars standing perfectly still, would slide into another car, or off the road.

Have that happen at several intersections across a city, and then the gridlock grows. and the weather begins to take it's toll. Cars run out of gas, batteries that are not bought with cold cranking amps quit, etc.

Now you have a scenario where nobody can move, kids can't get home, or even off the bus that was stuck in gridlock while returning home, parents can't get home, emergency workers are stuck in traffic on the way to rescue or save a life.


And this is what a bunch of arrogant, ignorant yankee's want to mock.....

Classy folks....classy.

HAJ, I like you, but I think we're not seeing eye to eye.
now as you said and a few others previously, you had warnings but ignored them. granted you had your reasons, but this talk of "we never saw it coming" I don't buy it. I saw the weather reports here in south dakota, they told the south and east to brace yourselves for snow and cold headed your way. I get a strong impression from the news and on here that lots of people underestimated the storm from the average joe all the way to the governors. THATS what we're talking about. ma nature will rear her ugly head from time to time. we get storms like ya'll had often enough, hell we got 3" the other day and no one I talked to even mentioned the fact in passing. when you hear "bad weather is headed your way, it's a good idea to keep an eye on the sky and have a plan. that goes for tropical storms or blizzards.

I do not believe I am guilty of mocking. If I am it was not my intent.

I've got nothing but respect for you either man.

It's okay not to see eye to eye with a bud. I consider EH76 to be one of my favorite people on here and yet I think he's a little out of line in his assessment of what happened here.

Here's the thing. You saw the weather reports in South Dakota. Dude, I don't ignore the weather reports in South Dakota, I just never see them. Why would I!?

We see what's reported locally. What occurred was not what was predicted here. You'd have to be here and watch the local news, or listen to the local radio to get it.

I completely agree that it was underestimated, but I submit that that was due to local reporting, not due to people just blowing it off.

Trust me, nobody fears winter like southerners. If they had even the slightest implication that this was going to be what it was, people would still be peaking out from behind their curtains!

It's really hard for people that have only experienced real winter weather once a decade to "have a plan". They just don't know what to prepare for, nor do they have the stuff stocked on the shelves to do that with. It's completely a foreign concept and for good reason.

What failed here is that the one's that should have known, the local emergency crews, law enforcement (elected officials), and the media should have had a plan in the books long in advance, on how to handle such an event.

They didn't, and it caused major problems.

No, Scott, I've never seen you mock anybody going through a rough time. I'd figure that others like yourself would know that they are exempt from that last line.

Excellent opening post, sadly the "nation of wimps" runs far deeper than weather.

Just making sure we were still OK.

It was an ignorant opening post.

For starters, everything he suggested isn't possible.

Chains? Really? Here's some news, they're illegal on the roads here. Why? It only snows about once a decade, and no more than a few inches.

Snow tires, or all season tires? Again, not even stocked in the stores, why would they be?

It was pure ignorance.

That is sadly so true and it has nothing to do with what part of the country you live.

Always my friend, always.

Who you calling a Yankeeee you transplanted Yankee? you are all easterners as far as I am concerned! So we don't see eye to eye and you think I am out of line. I don't so we are even

Just be happy you didn't get a 3 foot deep snow on top of a 1/2" of ice on Oct 5.... colorado knows what I am talking about and we didn't even make the news

What everyone from other parts of the country "piling on" can't seem to grasp is...
Yes, yes, YES, indeed the weather reports said we were going to get snow across the southeast. In my area, the forecast was that it was most assuredly going south and east of us(like what was said in Atlanta) At 8:00 in the morning, I dropped my little girl off at school. At that time the local radio station had a spokesman from the National Weather Service Office on the phone who was saying "only light flurries expected in our area, heavier snow passing to the south and east." One hour later it started snowing. Two hours later school was let out at 11:00. At 12:00 a school bus loaded with kids was rolled over.
We repeatedly get "chance of snow" in the forecast. Sometimes they cancel school over those forecasts and catch hell for doing so when the snow doesn't show up.
Of course the southeast had snow and ice predicted. But depending on where you were, the "local" forecast was saying "yea" or "nay" for that immediate area and THAT'S what screwed everybody up!

I am always dismayed that so many people seem to think that where a person lives defines them as a person. I don't understand the seeming need to denigrate people who live in a different part of the country than oneself. It also seems that the people who are the most vocal about putting down those who live in another part of the country are the same ones whose backs get up the highest whenever their area is disparaged. It would be interesting to see where the greatest percentage of "area insults" have come from at the 'fire.

Watch it buddy! I was born in Little Falls, NY, he and I might be kin.

Yeah, I was born in the Northeast, but escaped as soon as I could!

Glad you didn't take my post personally, bud.

I've seen 3 foot of snow on top of 1/2" of ice more than once in my time. In the area's I've lived, that wouldn't make the news either, but then again, the people living there have everything they need to address it right handy.

NY has been laid flat with ice storms and lake effect snow left and right. Like I said, I've lived in it.

What you and I had immediately available just isn't available here.

I'm sure you've seen your share of winter storms do a lot more local damage than any one expected as well. This is really no different.

What would your homies be doing if you got a 6" rain in an afternoon? We get that as often as you get snow.

I know Little Falls. It's not too far from Gloversville!

I was born in Watertown but lived in Adams Center at the time. So, I'm sure we don't share the same DNA.

Now here is a post I can agree with 100%! I have been in all fifty states and have lived twelve from NY were I was born to FL, across the Midwest from OH to MO, then to HI, back east to MD, VA, RI, MA, and FL then west to OR and now WA. They all had good points and bad. I have met face to face good men form a bunch of states and would never bash them for where they choose to live.

I guess that's because I do not consider myself a Washingtonian or any other stats name, I am an American and am damned proud of it.

Probably better for you that you don't. My father was a chemist for Beachnut in Canajoharie but the nearest hospital was in Little Falls.

The pickup bed was empty before it started snowing and blowing and this stuff was packed in tight....



We got to dig out after 2 days in the trailers..2 years prior it was a 90� hunt. Heck 2 the Monday before this happened it was near 80�! This started on a Thursday afternoon with freezing rain which froze into about a 1/2" of ice on the highway back to then snowed and ended on a Saturday morning. The snow was driven with 50 mph winds. We holed up with plenty of food, propane, water and libations and rode it out. This one was predicted that Thursday morning. We broke down the outdoor kitchen and packed it back to town. Only reason we went back out was to try to get my friend's son his first antelope buck. It came in with a vengeance and we just sat tight.



trees broke like twigs you could hear them all night...



the day before the storm rolled in...



Just a dang storm is all...

Scott:

It's like people dissing others for going to different high schools, following different NFL teams, etc.

Kid stuff you never grow out of. No big deal, really.

10 am


7pm


2 days later


the only difference is no one said much about it outside of daily conversation. it was way worse than anyone had predicted. 25,000 cattle died in western SD alone. spearfish SD got over 48" of snow overnight. we didn't point fingers and complained. folks just hunkered down where they were and waited til it cleared and started cleaning up.

I think a big problem with your storm is the majority of southerners who just flipped out and piss and moaned about it so much. the sky didn't fall, just some hard water. yes it sucked, but it's what each individual does after that counts. you're all still here, so that's good. years down the road you can share your experiences with younger folks who won't remember it.

bottom line is it's all this damned global warming! LOL.

in all seriousness, you guys had a storm that was underestimated, kinda like we did. we heard it was gonna be bad, we just didn't know HOW bad til the aftermath. life goes on, what I would do now is make a list of everything you wish you had done to prep, so next time you'll know how to prepare, or you'll be able to have it on hand already. we keep a pantry/cellar with canned food we rotate out as need be. a few 20 lb propane tanks and 10 gallons of freshwater. it's not a lot, but it sure helps it go by better!

Went on a special cow hunt up on MT Hood one year. Made a camp in a nice spot and started hunting. Next evening I looked up and said I thought it looked like and smelled like snow. Now I was the new guy, only been in Oregon about 18 months. One of the old hands that was born in Oregon told me why it could not snow.

Two and a half foot outside the tent door before it got light outside. We hunted hard in the heavy forest with it snowing all day. Was one of the most wonderful and memorable hunts in my life.

Like you we waited it out and drove home two days later.

Funny thing about that special hunt. Ninety cow tags sold wit an expected 100% fill rate. There were that many elk there... well they were there before the hunt. Not one tag was filled. Never did find out where the elk went. Fish and game was up flying around and could not find then either. It was still a great hunt.

I've seen that more than once myself.

Blizzard of 77 dumped 156" of Lake Effect snow in just a few days.

Ice Storm of 98 leveled almost every tree North of the Thru-way.

Those are just some examples...

I've seen it go the opposite way as well. Ice covered roads, buried under a few feet of snow over night, and 60* by 10am....



Me, and my family had no problems with this weather. Wife lived in Alaska, I lived in NY. We know winter when we see it, and we have the only thing we need here.....a broom.

It wasn't the 1-3" of snow that was causing the problems....it was the ICE underneath around here and the fact that businesses, schools, etc. all cut people loose at the same time. I don't know anyone that can drive on ice in hilly areas unless they have chains.

I can handle the fun stuff and dish it out. It is when folks get serious about the insults it ceases to be funny to me. But, the Fire is helping toughen my old hide.

You've never been to a Florida/Tennessee game, I guess.

On thick hard ice chains won't do you any good anyway. They can be great in snow but on snow and ice like you got they still aren't a lot of help.

You guys got blindsided.

Yeah, but you see, we all should have known that there was going to be ice covering all the roads. The News in South Dakota said so....

We should have run over to Walmart and bought studded tires, don't ya know!?

No, you should have stayed in bed that morning. Didn't you read your fortune cookie?

3 kinds of people that drive in tennessee in the winter. Guys like me that can drive and drive according to conditions, people who drive so slow when they need momentum the get up hills they can't and the worst kind of idiot, the ones who drive like there's no snow or ice at all.

No different here only we get more practice. It does not seem to help the mentally challenged.

Drivers? We have so many foreigners, so many from Somalia,
China, Mexico. That have never seen snow. Some that have never even seen a car before. And now they are given a license And a car! We had a semi of our glue crash last year in Tn. The driver could not speak a word of English! Not the driver that picked up the load.

Probably have as much luck looking for a pistol in the local Walmart, as you would studded tires or chains. I wouldn't buy them if they had them. No more than I would use them, I likely wouldn't have the same truck the second time I needed them and the way my luck runs they wouldn't fit the new truck.

Drivers have to speak English to get a CDL in the US. That does not explain why so many CDL drivers cannot speak a word of it.

It not just your part of the country tat has so many non English speaking drivers. We have them here and we get lots more coming out of Canada.

Now I will say this, those new immigrants are at least working and they tend to work their tails off to get a start in this country. Liberal welfare bottom feeders would do well to learn from them.

Alright! We got it.....good gravy.

And we get that you like the Seahawks, but I'm sure you won't stop telling us that fact....

Ding.

Hearty bunch down there.

Oh sure, NOW he drops that gem, what with some Southerners getting all defensive and worked up at others making sport of how an event turned out. Painting an entire state, or region with the same brush? Gee whiz, that sure sounds familiar! Where the hell was this comment the past 3000 times the butt of the jokes and ridicule and condemnation and scorn was heaped upon those of us in the Northeast? Sheeit...

But the masses still don't get it. They suck in bad weather no mater where they come from.

The only think I hated more that nasty sloppy weather was dodging the idiots in all conditions weather. Idiots think the must be in front of the big truck or all life on earth will end. No one seems to understand you can't stop 100,000 pounds in ten feet.

Yeah, if you like football.

Wow, just noticed how this thread has grown. I'll go pour another martini, have a couple of bites of kimchi (gearing up for next weeks move) and am counting on being amused over the next 30 minutes as I wade though.

Friend, you need to try on some shochu/soju; get into character and all, wot? Kinda 'nasty stuff at first blush, but you'll likely get used to it some. Prolly.

Safe trip, sir. You going to be in some far off, inaccessible spot, or near Seoul? If the latter and are still around in a few months, maybe we can get together and share some grub. I'll try the BBQd pooch if you go first. Maybe. Assuming I'll be totally blotto, of course...

That is a beautiful drive and one we did many times when we lived in Calgary and headed to our place in Sandpoint. Only once did we have to spend a night in Sparwood on return from ISandpoint to Calgary due to a multi-fatality accident over the pass. Many "squirrelly" bits along the way though.

[quote=kamo_gari]Friend, you need to try on some shochu/soju; get into character and all, wot? Kinda 'nasty stuff at first blush, but you'll likely get used to it some. Prolly.

Safe trip, sir. You going to be in some far off, inaccessible spot, or near Seoul? If the latter and are still around in a few months, maybe we can get together and share some grub. I'll try the BBQd pooch if you go first. Maybe. Assuming I'll be totally blotto, of course...

I will be in Geoje, off the south, an island of about 200k people. Upon first visit a few weeks ago it appears to be a "nice" little town. I have spent a fair bit of time down there in the past buying refinery equipment. Actually pioneering it some in 2000 when the US O&G industry was terrified to buy the hairy chit we buy from "them". "Them" delivered the goods and cost me less grief than the US companies I was buying from and, in particular unfortunately, the Texas based firms that woefully under delivered. Maybe bad timing, maybe not. The local firms were not delivering chit so I went overseas. A nemesis... Most of my time was spent in Ulsan. And yes, bulgogi shared with "shots" in other's glass of soju was the norm. In my trips to Japan, China and Korea clearly Korea was the "most" western. I just received an invite "To Meet Ed" at a "legendary" local place with my inherited team. Another adventure will begin. As usual, my American friends and family outside immediate think I am nuts. On the contrary, I dig this chitt. I am here living just once, so what's it gonna be?

A perfect opportunity to go full Ugly American. You lucky dog, you. Rock the house!

Ya know, last night I finished with my team here over beer at a pub in the Brisbane CBD and it was a near tear jerker for me. They put together a few gifts, a couple of which that just knocked me over. A tribute that I was just overwhelmed by, not really realizing what I meant to them? I head over next week and just hope that I can achieve the same and realize that it is happening this time...

we finally see eye to eye!

N-S-E-W, that scene would halt about any travels. In our neck of the woods, that sort of ice would be a pretty rare occasion due to the excessive road salting that happens here. We'd still get the hard chargers in full-size pickups and SUV's driving the speed limit and over.

Wrong and that's horseschit! I've seen the same situation in El Paso, TX or how about when Las Vegas. NM got dumped on several years ago to the tune of 3 or 4 ft. Heck they had to close I25 there.

[

Anyone who thinks that El Paso, TX or Las Vegas, NM is in "The South" has not spent much time down here. What the heck does that have to do with anything anyway?

I didn't read all this BUT; too many people, too much sprawl, and I don't care what you are drdiving, you cannot go cross country, and someone else may take you out while you are sitting there waiting your turn. People in some places just don't have the experience to deal with ice rinks, high wind, steep grades, and unusual cold. The days when we could just hunker down by the stove unless we had to milk the cows are long gone.

I think he means they aren't used to or prepared for snow either.
they just didn't bitch when it came.

FYI, all your icy roads originated with snow. when it gets compacted it warms slightly and turns to water that then refreezes. lots of people driving makes it into snow.
why are all those people driving on snow if it isn't safe?
well I'm glad you asked! because they don't know any better and didn't heed the warnings that were in national news for days before hand. I know, I know. crazy talk it was and should have been ignored. and when it comes as bad or worse than predicted, if I were there, I would be embarrassed (no pun intended)with getting caught with my pants down. in the states that get regular snow, here's how they deal with it - no driving unless absolutely necessary, stay home if possible, heed weather reports and above all, SLOW DOWN and drive with CAUTION. all are concepts that apparently most "southerners" can't comprehend.
if you are one who can, I commend you. if what I just said made you furious, well then you are in the majority, congrats!

FYI Las Vegas NM is the same latitude as Tennessee, el paso is way more south than that.

There are some first rate pieces of work on this site that I was unaware of until this thread started. Please learn the difference between the South, the Southwest, the Midwest, etc.

I was not complaining or bitching about the recent weather event down here. I know how to drive in the snow. I can even manage in ice if the roads are not blocked by jackknifed 18wheelers. I was able to navigate through the ice covered streets and got home, but with great difficulty. Most Southerners over 40 years of age have driven in at least a half dozen snow storms in their lifetime. We are not complete idiots. What pisses us off is the condescending attitude of know-it-all asshats from a thousand miles away who are so certain they would have been smart enough to have avoided this. In the future if you happen to be caught by some flood, forest fire, drought, tornado or other weather event that was not forecast precisely, please remember your sanctimonious attitude here.

firstly, thank you for calling me first rate! did you see my previous post? we got caught BIG time last october, we just didn't bitch about it. look up winter storm "Atlas" we couldn't avoid it, but we made it through by hunkering down and surviving, when it cleared, we pulled ourselves up and started digging out.


I forget how the "civil war south" is it's own strange mysterious land that has mystical powers, like ice that just forms on roads. or no weather stations work locally.
I just hope we don't have to listen to whining about this one for the next 150 or so years too.

All the weather folks around here and in Atlanta were saying the weather event was going
to be further south so what preparation there was (granted, not much) was focused there. Also it started out as freezing rain, then sleet and then snow on top. It wasn't refreezing of snow that had been driven on that made the layer of ice.

There are plenty of knuckleheads to go around here too. On my way home I saw an SUV on its roof in the median and several cars in the ditch within a mile or so of my house. Going just a "leeeetle bit too fast".

Oh, my boss is from Philadelphia and he was pretty miffed that he was being told by the base CO to let everyone go " just because of a little snow!"

I don't think you will find any Southerners on this thread bitching about the snow. You may have forgotten that this thread was started by disparaging Southerners as weather wimps. Let's say a thread was started by a New Englander or Southerner insinuating that the Coloradans that got swept away in the flash floods this past summer should have known what was coming. After all, rain was in the forecast.

I grew up in the south and every year there was winter. I have seen tornadoes, snow, buckets of rain, ice storms, and drought in the south. These storms happen every year in some part of the south. You think people would learn from last winter their 2 wheel drive is a piece of crap on ice. They even show these storms on the news and what happened to people. Unfortunately people don't learn. We already know 52% of the people in the USA are stupid and want the government to take care of them. People just don't learn from these storms or from year to year. Part of the year will most always be winter.

Ah, I see, you guys think that there's a lot of whining and bitching about the snow going on here?

That's funny.

It really isn't even coming up in conversation much.

What you are seeing is the news media doing what it does and sensationalizing everything.

I know of one ER doc that got stuck in that gridlock on his way to the hospital, he got out, walked the 6 miles, and saved some lives. No, bitching, just going about business.

The media on the other hand is making things a bigger ordeal than they really are.

I haven't seen any calls for FEMA or anything....

The media making things bigger than they are is what they do, and people take their cues from them instead of taking the time to use some common sense. Unfortunately, the media weather people are the worst at this.

Yeah, that never happens there and SUV's make alllllll the difference.....

TF

Very true....


I think it's funny. Notice how all the reports are out of Metropolitan areas and not from outside of the cities. You'd think that just Birmingham and Atlanta got any winter this year....

So, lets take places that already deal with poor traffic conditions on a good day and through in a little ice and see what happens....

The same exact thing that happens in Cities in the North.

Only difference is that since that combination doesn't happen much in the South, it's news worthy, and since it's news worthy, it needs to be made to be EPIC!

now that I can completely see!
The only thing we see on the news here are the poor SOBs on the news complaining how they can't make it to KFC or whatever food place and they had no hot water for 2 days. waaaawaaaa. and the "we never saw it coming" BS. come on, it made the weather report out here, and no doubt it was worse than anyone had thought.
I think it's the over dramatization in the media that's making ya'll look bad. that on top of the bad drivers in metro areas when snow is involved, hell anytime. everyone is in such a rush and the rest of the world is an inconvenience. I don't miss the days of 7 lanes of traffic wall to wall on my morning commute.

Guess southerners ain't smart enough to know how to use a weather radar app on a smartphone, turn on animation and storm track...

I am not a fan of cities, nor the populace that occupies them....

You have to be realistic. Not many people actually do that.

Then, you have to listen to the people that have posted here that live here and what they say about those weather reports. All the reports and tracking put that stuff somewhere else.

I happen to live in one of the most educated Cities, per capita, in the Nation. Home to most of the Military R&D, and technology galore. It has nothing to do with intelligence. Every 11th person here is in fact an Engineer. The vast majority are actual Rocket Scientist....

What you saw was city folks under the depiction of media sensationalism.

Ok, now this thing is becoming more clear - - -


and it has been snowing here for 18 hours with no end in sight - -
300 mile drive starting early AM - hope this thread helps us.

Huntsville I take it.

Good, educated guess...

and correct.

My wife is turning on the heater if it dips into the 60's...

Since when does education and common sense have anything to do with one another?

When the education and common sense are dependent upon each other, and they all vote conservative.

Keep in mind that Atlanta has NO snow plows and that the roads were not clogged with snow, but sheet ice. Also, everyone left work at the same time and the roads were quickly clogged with a million cars, all sliding on the ice.

According to the Oregon DMV, there are about 3.7 million passenger vehicles and trucks registered in the entire state of Oregon. In metro Atlanta alone, there are approximately 2.7 million passenger vehicles and trucks registered (Atlanta Regional Commission). Lots of congestion on good days; accidents and stranded vehicles just shut the entire place down.

Add to this that few Atlanta drivers have any experience driving snow/ice and you've a recipe for disaster.

They probably have about the same relationship as lack of education and common sense.

Today's weather. You fellas can have that other crap.