Today I managed getting back to the range after three weeks. They had it closed for a week and a half updating the grounds and adding security equipment. Then, I had problems with my leg and couldn't get out but decided I was going today come hell or high water.

I took a new Savage Predator Hunter 22-250 with a scope just mounted to bore sight and a Model 70 270 with a new scope to also be bore sighted.

After getting both sighted in, I had six different loads for the 22-250, five rounds each. All were shot at 100 yards. The best I could do with them all was a 3/4" group and one flyer that opened the group to 1 1/4" or so. The rest were maybe an inch to 1 1/2". From a 22-250? I've apparently gotten so I can't shoot anymore. Even though a new rifle, new scope, new brass I should have done better than that. Most disappointing and debilitating. I almost wish I hadn't gone.

Just because it's all new does not guarantee an accurate rifle. I bought one of the first Leupold 3.5x10 50mm scopes ever to hit Greenville and it delivered poor accuracy. To double check I mounted an old Tasco World Class 6x on the rifle and the groups immediately shrank to about 3/4". Before I couldn't get 1.5 inch groups with the Leupold.

Factory rifle? No factory turns out all accurate rifles.

I could give a flying hoot about groups. Bench and paper is about as miserable/boring pursuit that I know of, sans visiting in-laws...

but...you are still shooting. probably 99% of the American males can't say that.

Dont give up. Look into techniques on how to break in a new gun.

Keep shooting. Some guns need a few hundred down the pipe to really find their groove.

What else you gonna do?

Did you give up when you fell off your bike the first time.

Cmon dude.

Sounds like a challenge to me, not a reason to quit. While not stellar accuracy, it is close to good accuracy. Last deer rifle I bought, we never found out the group size at 100 because all the shots weren't on paper. A barrel given to me turned it from a 7mm-08 into a 338 fed that shoots great. Fun times.

May God see to it that you always have problems such as these.

I guess I ought to feel lucky I made it out there with this problem leg. I had to stop twice on the way back from tacking the targets up.

It was all probably me. Mirage was bad at times at 16X but I had it on that to see the half inch squares on the bench rest targets. Oh, well...maybe better next time now that the brass if fire formed and I've got an idea with powder/bullet combination shows more promise than others. Still, you'd think 38.5 gr of H380 and a Sierra bullet would shoot bug holes.

Heck we all have bad days at the range...all I have to do is take a rifle out to make the wind blow

Could be something as simple as seating depth.

There ya go. Keep hammering away Kitch.

I guess I'm just aggravated. Between a stopped up femoral artery causing your foot to go numb and calf to cramp, we had to contend with carpenter bees harassing us, flies, and a sundry of other varmints flying in your face. That's summer at the range, however.

I only shoot one-hole, one-shot groups...

But you're making lot's of conclusions without gathering any real data...

New Rifle...bedding, crown, barrel channel...?
New Scope...??
Load development...?

1 1/4 groups might just mean a little load work up is in order, or it could mean any of the above need to be refined.

Lots of scopes are shipped out defective NIB. To assess a rifle, I always start with a known to be stable scope and go from there. Yes, 16x will amplify mirage, if it's a hot day.

Also, with a new barrel, I clean out all the oil and take it to bare metal with JB, then sterilize with alcohol and coat the bore with a little dry graphite, and I do all this before I fire round one!

If not, it can, (and still might), take up to 30 or more rounds before the bore coppers up in the right places and settles down. Some factory barrels are like that.

If they are not worked on a little bit before firing, new factory barrels that aren't lapped are basically rough as hell, and often have to be shot a little to wear off the rough spots. Some barrels will do this every time they are cleaned to bare metal, which is why I have developed some protocols to deal with those.

Anyway...I won't go on, but the point is to eliminate the variables one-by-one before you make any conclusions.

At least with me, I know it's not my trigger work...:)



Actually I do... I mostly know when I missed up and lost concentration, and that right there is helpful.

I was breaking in that new rifle cleaning after every shot until I had shot ten. Then, after each three shots, etc. I made sure the stock screws were tight before I left and double checked the mount and ring screws. Checked for parallax before starting and waited several minutes between shots. All those things that should have added up to better groups...IMHO. I got it sighted in with two rounds so that was a plus!

Well, maybe better luck next time,. All those bullets were 55 gr. Perhaps I'll try a different weight next time along with another 55 gr. Perhaps the 50 and 60 gr bullets. Powders were H380, Varget and 4064. I guess I was expecting much better results than I got for the caliber.

A barrel often won't shoot well when it's clean. More often than not, it seems.

If you like the break-in process, fine, but groups shot during that process may not reflect a rifle's true accuracy potential, especially if there is any trace of oil left in the barrel.

It may take shooting a box of ammo to clean out any oil residue if you try to shoot it out. Any trace of oil will open groups up.

That's a waste of bullets and powder to my way of thinking.

This .22-250 frustrated me for years:



It would put 2 or 3 in one hole, then toss the next 1�" away. But I kept after it, and eventually shot three tight groups in a row, as shown. Better yet now, new loads I try in it seem to be much less fussy. I'd now ask for a lot of money, if someone wanted to buy it.

I always find I am worse at shooting, after a long layoff. Keep at it, and keep challenging yourself to do better.

In the above Ruger, Varget and 50gr Ballistic Tips were the hot ticket. I plan to experiment a little with Big Game in the future.

1 out of 10 trips is good for me during load development. When they are good, they are very good.

But then some of us prefer to shoot groups, and hate inlaws so much we never had any to bitch about.....

I can't shoot worth a damn when body parts are hurting... been shooting a lot more handguns vs rifles over the past several years.... much easier to change targets at 7 yards than 100+ yards when walking uneven mountain ground....

I shoot air rifle some indoors.... been working on recurve bow shooting again...I expect to perhaps be reduced to shooting spit wads at a TV screen some day...

Adapting to life changes is part of the process. (Full disclose: Some days I might be found screaming " This SUCKS!" prior to getting into an "adapting" mode again ).

There's a reason it's not called H385.

I read that once...

I no longer can shoot as well as my guns are capable of, don't mean I'll quit!

Someone started a thread about a "gun" that shoots table salt... good on house flies out to about 4 feet IIRC... I expect I'll have one someday and be working on getting it set up with Crimson Trace laser grips

yep

And 37 gr of Varget, under a 50 gr Ballistic Tip, is another good one. Near max, so work up.

Are you using wind flags????
If not, you're wasting your time and getting false results.

I still think I can shoot pretty good as the .385" group I got about three weeks back with the same type of rifle, Savage Predator Hunter Max-1 in .243 caliber. Maybe it was just an off day but I had great expectations from this rifle and thought it would do as good or better than the .243 Savage. Both have the same AccuTrigger and in fact, they both look like twins. I can only tell them apart by the different scopes.

I always clean the barrel prior to shooting,TopCat. I'd never leave oil in the barrel or chamber. So, that's not a factor. Nope, I don't aim to quit, just got a little frustrated today and thought I'd vent a little. There are more bullets, Sierra, Hornady, Berger and Nosler yet to try and half a dozen different powders.

The only wind flags we have are long 2" wide ribbons someone tied to the bottom of the target frames and I watch those. However, I don't think that's all it's cracked up to be. I've gotten better groups not even paying attention to the wind or it's direction. That's for someone with a 6PPC that's looking for .100" groups.

But if it's becoming frustrating to shoot groups, shoot stuff.

It's a fact that few people recognize but not all loads are accurate from day to day. In fact, I've seen a good shooting load go sour in 30 minutes between relays.

Allan Hall once told me that you can miss a shot into a group just as you can throw a shot out of a group. Shooting itty-bitty groups is an exercise in frustration.

Read the post above about using wind flags. I've been preaching that for years but few people really believe it.

I always bring a "constant" with me to the range. Easy to decipher if it is you or the gun. If my Tikka isn't shooting, I know it is me.

That being said, I HATE load development. I only do it as a necessary evil to find a load that is suitable for long range plinking.

Go back to an old proven gun and load. This will get you back on track I bet.

Best of luck and good shooting!

twofish

Perhaps there is something to wind flags as the bench rest shooters utilize them. I never could get into that, though. I had enough to concentrate on, keeping the scope level, not canted, breathing right, squeezing the trigger, etc.

I don't think any of us can consistently shoot 3/4" or less every time we go to the range, one group after another. Take that back. I do have a pre-64 Model 70 270 that will consistently do that IF I do my part. Case in point. These groups were shot the same day, same rifle, but 30 minutes between each three shot group. Moreover, it was done with an old Lyamn 4X Perma Center scope!

+1

Sometimes I shoot groups on paper & sometimes I shoot stuff , just depends on what I feel like doing.

I never shot any inlaws cause they were deceased before I ever met 'em.
Hope I don't ever have to shoot any outlaws but if it's needed I will.

Once upon a time I killed the neighbors pitbull cause he needed it.

Mike

A canting problem can be helped by choosing a target that automatically gets you to correct cant as you aim, and by using a level when hanging said target.

I can do 5/8 MOA pretty regular for five shots at 300 yards with a 6x scope on a 308, but the type of rifle I'm using helps. I don't expect that of myself with lighter sporters.

I have a Browning BPCR in 45-70 that has a bubble level on the front sight...great for intended purposes.

Hasn't anyone said the worst day at the range beats the hell out of any day at work.

I wish that was my only problem. I had to get out today and shoot as it's been three weeks and I was going stir crazy. Good or bad groups, it was good to get out and go to the range. My leg has kept me from going and I chanced it anyway. The doc would have had a fit had he known I went. Long story. I didn't know if I could get to the 100 yard target frame and back for sure but I made it with pain.

And get closer....

somehow i am sensing a bench rest state of mind. It is connected often times to engineer types.
I have bad legs too, good to hook a grandkid into running the targets for you.
I also like shooting on the desert and have been thinking of taking my quad along, which is the motorized wheel chair for ol guys to help run the targets.

Hell of a lot of competitive shooters will argue with ya. LOL.

I did the same thing with a new Burris Signature 8-32X. I replaced it with a Tasco World Class 6-24X. The next five shot group measured .312".

Dig out a brick of .22LsR and go to an indoor range with targets that come back to you. Work on fundamentals for an hour or so, go home. Come back and do it again. Then do it again until you see the right results on a repeat basis. It will all come back to you.

1B

1B just nailed it!

As for me, I have days when I can shoot well, and days that I cannot. On the cannot days I don't beat my head against a wall, I shoot fun stuff like pistols at cans and clay targets, then go home happy and try the paper some other time.

Go shoot turtles for a few weeks. It will line a guy out

Yea I use to shoot that way. But 10 years on night shift managed to open them groups up even on a great rifle.

That was me John, and I am glad it's fly season.

Just about gave up on a re-barreled 700 MR 7-08 that refused to shoot consistently. It wasn't: scope, bases, trigger, barrel heating, brass, powder, seating, or the operator. It was adding 10g of bullet weight combined with needing to be very clean. Now it's touching bullet holes and doing it cold or warm in new or FF brass with said operator under intense mosquito pressure. It ain't right.

Eliminating variables and combinations thereof can turn into a full-time job...

I couldn't get my .257 Roy to shoot light bullets. Went to a 110 gr accubond, and 1.5" shrunk to 3/4". It was hell too, because I hate being forced to shoot paper at the range.

Kitch,

How did you feel about your shooting that day?

Was your mind in the right place?

Were you able to call your shots and do so with confidence?


The mental aspect of shooting groups is just as important as everything else. If there's things on your mind that interfere with your ability to focus 100% then the results may not be optimal. The next time you go to the range shoot with the steely eyed precision that you know you have. If the groups aren't what they should be you'll know it's not you.

CONFIDENCE !

Don't give up. Everybody has a bad day once in awhile.

I didn't feel good at all about the results of the shooting. My mind wasn't in the right place on the way to the range much less when I got there. I'm having a lot of problems with the leg and foot and was concerned if I could even walk down and back to the 100 yard target area to tack up my targets.

I lucked out there as there was only one other guy there when I pulled up, a young black guy in his mid to late 20's and we exchanged salutations and he asked if he could go on down to tack his targets up. I asked if he would do mine as well and explained the leg condition. He obliged and I was relieved about that.

I had the leg on my mind and was concerned if my dog was ok. I don't like leaving him alone for very long. Just a quirk of mine. I knew I had a lot to do with a new scope, rifle, and another rifle with an exchanged scope I'd have to bore sight along with a lot of new loads and keeping up with what groups were shot with what bullets/loads and didn't know how long that would take.

All in all I was there physically but not mentally. I tried to concentrate on what I was doing but had a lot of excess baggage in the subconscious. Maybe next time will be better. I did h ave to retrieve my targets as the fellow that tacked them up for me left about an hour later. It was difficult going down and pulling the targets down and walking back. I had to stop twice. That takes all the enjoyment out of shooting when pain over rides it.

Now you know what the problem was and that's a good thing.

The next time you go to the range make it easy on yourself and plan on working with just one rifle. If things are going good then decide if you want to do more range work. Don't do it because you have to.

Have fun with it.

I usually take two rifles-the 243 and 270 or the 22-250 and the 270. The FW barrel on the 270 heats up after three shots so, I let it rest, grab one of the other ones that's cold and shoot a five shot group, clean and grab the 270 again. It's usually cool enough at that point. So, I bring two at least just to rotate them. I was just testing too many things and had more than I should have on my mind besides that. It all seemed more work that pleasure that day.