Had a 17 grain Blue Dot 55 grain nosler load possibly destroy my 243 AI today. I weighed every load and seated each bullet right after powder was poured into the case. It's possible to get a double load in one, but I'm pretty positive I didn't. The shot was loud, I felt some particals hit my face, and the bolt is stuck so tight it can't be hammered open. Other than having to change my shorts I had no injuries.

stuff can be replaced...glad you are ok.

wow, you're lucky it didn't come apart on you. sorry to hear that it happened though, hopefully the gun is ok. glad you are in one piece


Get a bigger hammer?

Open her up with a leather mallet then hope that the case ain't stuck too bad.
A plastic dead blow mallet will work too.
Did you learn anything from this yet?

Called the smith he's gonna pull the barrel

tell him to unscrew it, it will come easier

sorry, had to lighten it a little

Yeah I won't be using any more of the famous blue dot loads.

Double charge would be the most likely, I would think.

Glad your ok,

Why blue dot in a 243?

OK I'll let him know.

Not the load.................

MM

anything is possible, but I don't think so.

Glad you came out ok.

It happens and you can never be too careful.

I double charged a case lastnight. Fortunately, I was loading Norma 204 in a .25-06 case and became suspicious when the powder in the funnel was no longer dropping into the case.

It was an easy enough fix to dump the powder back into the measure and start over.

Laffin,...that's what everybody who double loads one says...

Glad you didn't have to visit the Hospital.!

If you don't believe it was a double charge, what do you think happened?

Its hard to be 100% sure of anything, what bothers me is that I can never be 100% sure weather it was or wasn't. The powder is burned up and there is no way to tell for sure. All l can say is that I was very cautious when I loaded them.

The gunsmith said it might have been a detonation.

Well, yes, it was a detonation. Every cartridge firing is a detonation.

You weighed every charge? Did you visually inspect each case prior to seating the bullet?

I'm not accusing you of anything; I'm learning.

My cases sit upside down in the loading block, I weigh the charge pour it into the case, from there the case goes directly into the press and the bullet is seated

When I want to sling 6mm bullets at slower speeds without using a bunch of power, I use my 6x45.

Pistol powder is best left to pistols.

Gotcha.

Glad you are ok..

Detonation as the gunsmith used it, I'd think meant what happens when you use too little of some slow powders. Don't fill the case and the powder doesn't burn correctly and causes a huge spike in pressures. lots of times referred to as a secondary explosion or detonation. But not something you'd think would happen with pistol powder. I've been reloading since 1959, and don't ever use pistol/shotgun, powders in a rifle case for something like fire forming.

That stuff leaves a lot of unburned powder in the barrel, if this happened after a long string, you may have had a bullet stuck in the barrel.......happened to me once, but I noticed the stuck bullet before the next shot.

The previous shot mad a hole in the target.

glad you are not hurt.

If you have a digital scale, you might weigh the rest of the loaded rounds. It's a fairly quick way to spot any double or missing charges.

I've learned not to trust powder measures at all. I have two of the top brand measures and both of them will occasionally get the drop tube jammed enough to prevent the full charge to drop. But on the next one the extra powder comes down and you have an overload. This has happened too many times, even with short cut powders. I haven't seen it with the super fine ball powders though. So now I put each charge on the scale enough to catch the real light or real heavy loads. Slow but I don't shoot that much center fire at a time anyway.

At least you still have your parts connected.

Glad you're okay. By the way the above system must be correct. It's how I do it.

easy with a flake powder like blue dot to get bridging in the drop tube but OP states he was weighing each charge and then filling a case. all I can say is thank God you can still see!

You do know why Trail Boss and SR-4579 were invented?.

P.S - glad you're okay. And I've played with Blue Dot to some degree, but luckily (I suppose) it never gave me any sort of accuracy.

Good example of why powder manufactuers don't know [bleep] ...........sarcasum

My first and only double charge that I caught was in 45acp coming off a Dillon turret press. Made a big impression. I now look into every case that rotates around the shell holder after throwing a charge. I also use a shell block/holder for rifle cases and look into every case before seating bullets after powder is dumped in. I've saved myself a lot of pain and money by doing so.

I have read that SR4759 is discontinued

Sycamore

Happy to hear you are OK and have survived a loading mishap of some sort. I'll just casually suggest that human error, as much as we'd all like to believe it "wasn't me", is usually to blame in these instances. After a surprise with pistol powder in rifle rounds, I've changed my practices accordingly. I, like you, am quite meticulous in my loading habits...but I've been around long enough to know that most [bleep]-ups in life belong to those who where there to witness them.

I have to ask...why Blue Dot in a rifle cartridge?

I've been asking the same thing for 30+ years.

Easy to make mistakes, probably so double dip. Wonder what a chrono would of read on that load. Just something that makes you more aware of what your doing.

Has this been answered here?



Anyway, I do not use Blue Dot powder. It is a good powder but has a freakish nature to it. There is a warning not to use it in the .41 Magnum. Why, who knows. Just like 800X for the 10 mm. Wrong combination of bullet, load density, temperature and other varibles can cause a problem without warning. Best just to stay away from it.

Glad your okay.

. Do a search on this site, and you will find a whole bunch of info on the subject.

I remember a theory put forth many years ago (a theory that may have been debunked by now) that a small charge of powder that lays below the primer can "detonate" all at once, instead of burning end to end. Could that be what your builder is alluding to?
This is not a theory that I ascribe to necessarily, just trying to figure out where your builder is coming from.

Glad your ok MB and hope the gun is salvagable.

I was cooking something last night and put in a bunch of Black Pepper instead of Cinnamon that was in a similar container. Had to pour it all out and start over. I screwed up, just saying.

I'm not ruling out the strong possibility that I might have screwed up, but in my mind I will never know for sure.

If you were using a powder measure to dump the loads, that is where your "mistake" lay. It bridged slightly and double-charged.

Always use a dipper for Blue Dot fun.

Always weigh every loaded case after you are finished and before firing it.

I wonder if the case could have been defective, maybe a small crack in or around the neck? Perhaps the case ruptured under normal pressure. How many times had those brass been resized and reloaded?

I'm not sure about the density of that load. Would a double charge even be possible if the bullet were seated properly?

Guy already SAID he was weighing every charge.

Glad your OK, hope you can salvage the beast.

GTC

Yes a double load will fit in the case.

Oh,,, I'm well aware of that. Lots of guys have been doing it since well before the internet, let alone the Fire, and most have (or know of) someone who's had "mysterious mishaps" like the OP.

I just don't see the point in it when there are so many sub-sonic options these days but hey,,, rock on,,, it's your guns, eyes, and fingers.

blue dot done right and I tend to use kapok filler to keep it at the primer, has never been an issue over the years.

But I'm also anal, I won't weigh a charge and then seat the bullet, I LOOK visually at each case after charging with a flashlight. Just to make sure it looks right. Even though an actual WEIGHED charge should be just fine. But the OP did say it COULD have been double... that means there is some doubt. IIRC.

Glad all turned out allright though. Guns are cheap compared....

Mathematical translation

BLUE DOT X 2= BROWN SPOT +(-1K$).

Local store had a few powders last week. They had about twenty cans of SR4759. It makes absolutely great reduced loads in most large rifle cartridges.

But I was looking for SR 4756, and they had none of that.

10-4:) Had the same thought, but would be interesting what this "builders" thought process's were. Not that it really matters in the end.

How many text or calls did you receive while reloading??

Well,I do not believe that BD is a useful RIFLE powder.I still ask WHY?

Somebody will always try something,that will run on the the edge of dangerous, this make no sense to me.

Thank God you are OK ,cause he works that way,protecting fools and such... Only a gun is ruined,lesson learned....

I have never like Blue Dot period , but used to use Green Dot and Unique for my Shot Shell Loading for Dove Hunting . I always wonder why people want to use Shotgun Powder for loading a rifle case when rifle powder is available. If i was making a guess for you mishap it was to much air space in the case and powder position against the primer

The LABEL is pretty plain:

http://www.alliantpowder.com/products/powder/blue_dot.aspx

If everything anyone ever did was ONLY waht the label showed it worked for we'd still be shooting muskets..... and who printed the load data for muskets?

It has been, but there's still some in the supply pipeline. And who knows? They may bring it back like last time it was discontinued.

Trail Boss and 5744 make pretty good subs for SR 4759.

I bought a couple pounds of it for experimenting in .45 Colt, but since Brian Pearce published "Redhawk Only" data for the .45 Colt in the October issue of Handloader, I'll likely stick with one of those powders for my thermo-nuclear loads and Unique or 5744 for lighter stuff.

There you go, Trail Boss for lead only.

5744 for lead and a few jacketed loads. Both good for large volume/low charge. Can work with fillers if you care to go that route.

BS

Look at the load data on it. It's for jacketed bullet use. I've used it w/ jacketed bullets in a low-numbered Springfield quite successfully.

Were you using a powder measure or dispenser?

Did you weigh each loaded round individually after loading?

You looking at Hodgdons (IMR) data?

I see only lead. That is what it is designed for. Out of the box without data, possible with jacketed. But why do it. There are better powders for that.

Hodgdon still lists 4759 among their lineup. Alliant doesn't show data for Blue Dot in the 41 Mag. (That really doesn't make sense since they show stuff on both sides, both in size and in pressures.)

I fill all my cases and compare with a flashlight before I start seating bullets. That being said, I use rifle powder in my rifles, so a chance of a double charge isn't very realistic. You're not going to fit 80grs of 4350 into a 243 case...

Data for Blue Dot in the 41 is listed in many of the older manuals.

Then a recall of the data was done. The distributer issued a warning to not use Blue Dot in the 357 with light bullets (125 HP) or any bullet in the 41.

That warning did not scare me so badly that I pulled the 300 rounds of 41 already loaded with Blue Dot. But they are loaded to very light pressure/low velocity.

I have though, replaced Blue Dot in my powder storage cabinet with SR 4756 and HS-6.

Would be kinda hard to READ THE LABEL with both eyes out and a hand OR TWO missing!

Would have never been able to shoot 90jlks as there was NO published data from Viht about them.... all I ever shot was Viht....


Ever read the owners manual on a rifle? Quite a few have suggested factory ammo only....

A few more things I have learned on the 'Fire...

A.Don't pour gasoline down a yellow jacket hole...

B. Don't put Blue dot in rifles...

C. Don't bring up shipping a Gun...

D. Don't discuss self-defense plans...

I tend to agree. The closer we stick to original design parameters the easier life seems to be.

Doesn't mean you should try it. Blue Dot in a rifle cartridge is counter intuitive.

Why? Give reasons.

Is it only not listed for rifle roudns because it would work reduced, but can't make the speeds most folks want to see? Does it spike pressures at higher speeds?

I"m not saying I'm right and you are wrong, but so many say it can't be done because nothing is published...

Not sure how folks think loads and wildcats are worked up anyway...

Detonation is generally prevented by filler material and is never a negative in any case thats not approaching 100 percent density anyway. With even powders and loads that are published, IMHO.

FWIW I run pistol powder in my 300/221 also... have run quite a few blue dot loads too over the years since finding out about it.

WTF? Best way to get rid of the nasty little buggers, especially when a match is added soon afterward.

Mostly subjective.
1) Blue Dot is a very low volume powder which lends itself easily to a double charge. When it comes to rifle loads I much prefer a high volume charge.
2) Its pressure spikes very quickly.

As you mentioned, filler will prevent detonation.

I just don't support the use of pistol powders in cartridges above the volume level of a 7 BR.

Those reasons make sense.

My point is typically if done correctly and safely, in most things you will be fine.

This would be one of those cases IMHO.

In the past I've used blue dot a few times in the .223 and .308 for mild loads. I found the accuracy to be excellent and recoil was very mild.

Than a buddy let me shoot his 475 Linebaugh with some mid range loads worked up with blue dot. As I recall lit went something like this, bang, bang, Kapow!!!, bang, bang. I had to pound the high recoil round out of the cylinder. Needless to say I have no idea what happened with that round as I wasn't the one who loaded it, but my shooting buddy is both extremely experienced and careful. My thoughts are blue dot can for whatever reason cause unpredictable pressure spikes in some instances.

So from my limited experience I've discontinued the use of blue dot in rifle loads and am carefully using it up in handgun loads. There are two many fine predictable powders out there w/ no history of pressure spikes to mess with blue dot.

For [bleep] sake. If I had a nickel for every gun I've had to hammer open I'd be a millionaire.

Reload and keep shooting.




Travis

Well, my action is toast, anyone need some Mex Mauser parts?

I used Blue Dot years ago for full-house .357 mag loads in a 4" barrel, where I wanted full speed without the heavier charges of 296 and similar. At least theoretically that should have been good in a short barrel. Not much later Alliant started warning not to use Blue Dot in the .357. I never had a problem with it. but others apparently did.

I wouldn't be a millionaire, but I would have a dime, and still have eyes and fingers.

I you had a nickel for all the rounds you fired while hammered . . . . . . .

BMT

I will make a great tomato stake . . . .

Glad you are okay, Badge.
That said, I'm gonna keep on with the Blue Dot. It's been tractable for me and I've only had one excursion or exciting moment with the stuff.
But diligent work with no distractions is the key. I always give everything a good squint under a bright light before the bullet happens. And I don't use cases large enough to allow a double charge.
You might be able to salvage much of the Mex. SARCO has been listing Dumoulin actions and stripped bolts. So good luck there.

I totally agree with you ... pistol powder is best left to pistols.

Just think of the time/pressure curve. It's not a pretty picture.

Many years ago, I was getting some really fine accuracy out of IMR-4227 with 150-grain bullets in a .30-'06. An old friend of mine who was probably the world's expert in the t/p curve at the time, Ted Curtis, simply cringed. Ted, who was probably 90-years old at the time, asked me "Young man, do you know how close to 'detonation' you are?"

That was the last time I shot an inappropriate powder in a rifle. It simply is not worth it.

Blessings to the OP and I'm glad you didn't lose a hand, an eye or an arm.

Steve

Now pouring Blue Dot down a yellow jacket hole would be interesting.

I luv me some 5744 when loading low power rifle cartridges. Bulky enough to make some nice, accurate low speed reloads out of. I have even used it for 30/30 speed loads with a 300 Ultra Mag and a quite comfortable to shoot ground squirrel loads with a 416 Rigby and 300gr bullets.

Glad you are OK! Go get some AA5744 and rock on.

The last batch of 223's I loaded were with red dot. My Lyman manual must be f'd up. Actually I think almost every powder listed is a "pistol" powder. If I'm not mistaken imr 4227 was the slowest powder listed for the 55gr. I think I'll call them in the morning. They seem to be confused on what's a "rifle" powder and what's a "pistol" powder.

Lot's of difference in a 223 and a 243AI...

I think I missed the answer to these questions.

I didn't try it, but I'm pretty sure I could have fit 2 charges in the case, probably closer to 3. Not saying that's what happened to the OP. Just saying "pistol" powders aren't just pistol powders. I'll look up the 243 loads when I go out to the shop.

It's in the first sentence from the OP...

Don't all Mausers?



Travis

montanabadger,

How many rounds had been fired through that barrel?

One phenomenon that's been noted by more than one ballistics lab is pressure spikes when a rifle throat gets a little wear on it. This contrary to the popular belief that pressures drop as the throat wears, but the first roughness ("gator skin") apparently increases pressures due to friction. This is erratic, as might be expected, but what apparently happens is the bullet hangs up slightly, especially if seated close to the lands--which aren't really worn away at this early stage, just roughened. With a relatively small amount of fast-burning powder, the pressure can spike VERY quickly when the bullet sticks a little in the throat.

I've just started doing some research into various aspects of reduced loads for various magazine articles, because reduced loads seem to be responsible for more rifle blow-ups than full-power loads. Will be talking to the technicians in major pressure labs to find out what's what, but have had enough "interesting" experiences of my own to begin to be skeptical of using small amounts of fast-burning powder in any case much larger than the .223 Remington with jacketed bullets.

OP: Glad you are okay, and kudos to you for having the cajones to post your experience. If taken in the right vein, it can serve as a learning experience and wake- up call for the rest of us.

Some form of quality control is always needed when loading. What that consists of is your choice, as you are probably the Pres., VP, Chief of Operations, Accountant, Quality Manager, Technician, Supply Clerk, and Sanitation Engineer in your operation. Your Quality Manager would insist on a 2nd pair of eyes to inspect each step of the operation, and unless you have a willing assistant handy, this falls on your shoulders. I prefer the General Visual Inspection method followed by a tactical feel check with a small brass rod to verify powder depth.

Hopefully we can all learn from your experience.

It's a new lilja SS with less than 100 rounds fired. Barrel was not harmed.

The advice I've used is that one should only use rifle powders in rifle cartriages because they operate at much higher pressures. Some powders, particularly shotgun powders, are not tested for shot to shot stability at higher rifle pressures.
I've been known to load some reduced rifle loads using powders like IMR/H 4227 and IMR 4198. Because they can go critical quickly, I stay well away from their published maximum, like 10% or less.
I've also had published loading data exhibit excessive pressures in high pressure handgun loads. Accurate Arms, for instance, used to publish data for their #2 ball powder in the 10mm pistol cartriage. I couldn't get anywhere near their loads w/o bulged cases. They no longer list that powder for their 10mm loading data. E

No, he didn't answer exactly. If he used a powder measure to drop the charges, then the problem is easily knowable.

If he did not weigh each loaded case upon finishing, then he will never know if he had an overcharge or not.

The obvious culprit in this scenario is an overcharged case. It's simply a matter of finding out how it got overcharged.

A powder measure was used and each load was weighed, no l didn't weigh the loaded cases, but the remaining ones will be checked out.

We should outlaw BlueDot, or possibly handloading altogether. Can I get a 2nd?

Probably a 2'nd and a third from Obama!

I've been telling you boys to stop fooling with the pistol powders. Fire forming, squib loads and any other way...you're fooling w/dynamite in a small package. One pulled trigger is all it takes to lose an arm, eye or your life. Do as you please. powdr

I do some light Unique loads in 223/40 VMax. I made sure my load density was a little over 50% so a double charge would overflow and make me aware.

I weigh them out too, due to possible powder bridging in the thrower.

Maybe others are right, in that it could be a practice that just isn't worth getting hurt over.

I have almost a pound of BlueDot.

You know I'm going to have to try that.

Okay, so you weighed each charge.

What's the possibility of an over-charge (scale mishap) or an actual double-charge?

use gas, send me the Blue Dot. Got some .41mag to load.. lol

HazMat is too expensive. I'll run into multiple jacket holes this year. I'll just use each, at least once.

There are a lot of pistol powders listed for cast loads in the 222, 223, and similar cases - including Red Dot, Green Dot, Unique, and Herco among Hercules/Alliant powders. What's interesting is that Blue Dot does not show up in Lyman's data until you get into the pistol cartridges. Perhaps Lyman (and Alliant) know some things that aren't commonly known among the masses?

This is probably true.^^^^^

It pays to have a library of old loading manuals. I have had good luck with BD in heavy shotgun loads. Not so much in pistol loads. Lack of accuracy or unexpected pressure spikes compared to other powders. There are many other good powders to use in heavy pistol loads without these problems.

The problem with the new Alliant load tables is that their marketing staff makes them list only their bullets. Not good for a powder company to do that. It is still usable data, but I do not like it.

Finally something that makes sense, well kinda!

I noticed that too. I was pointing out the "pistol" powder thing. I have no idea why lyman didn't list blue dot when they have listed many powders both above, and below it in burn rate. They have pressure testing equipment and I do not. I should add that I've loaded a lot of 223 blue dot loads with jacketed bullets and never had a problem. I've also loaded them with unique, I think I'll just stick with the unique from now on.

If I want a reduced load, then I'll typically just pick a smaller cartridge. You can do reduced loads in rifle catridges, but you have to manage the excess space in the case one way or another, either with fillers, or different powders, and those approaches have their pitfalls.

I dabbled some with reduced whitetail loads in the .375 H&H years ago, and they shot extremely well, but if you didn't watch you'd get either a hangfire, or had to use a filler.

Here's a recent reply I got from Alliant about the 41 Mag problem with Blue Dot:



That doesn't really spell things out, but it is their current prescription.

I wonder if it's at all like some of the shotgun powders where a fairly large primer flash ignites a powder charge that's always in contact with the flash hole? Perhaps some powders aren't so perfectly suited to the more open conditions of the pistol cases, working many times, but occasionally misbehaving?

Could be the charge was spot on for weight and for some reason the load had an unexplained pressure excursion. Something we'll never know as the proof went poof when he pulled the trigger.

That could be, yes.

The FAR MORE LIKELY scenario is that there was too much powder in the case, as thousands upon thousands of Blue Dot loads have been used without incident by just the members here, let alone everyone else.

I generally go for the simplest explanation that would handle the data.

The problem is when a pistol powder got used in a rifle case.
Period.

Thats not the problem as noted lots of pistol powders are used in rifle cases

Its all I use in 300/221... pistol powder...

I"d say either over charge or detonation due to no filler.

A case(221FB) that holds about 20 grains is not a fair comparison to a case(243AI) that will hold double or more...

Any "AI" case is meant to run hard and fasted than standard cartridges with case full of proper rifle powder,mostly on the slow side at that. It's in the man's book..
P.O.Ackley was an frontiersman and smart builder

I'd still recommend weighing the remaining cartridges, to see if any are under or over-charged. That might help determine exactly what happened.

True,good caution..but doesn't matter now,gun is trashed...

I've got both of Ackle's books, and don't remember seeing anything like this.

Can you tell me which book he wrote this in? Was it book 1, or book 2?

Respects,
Richard

I cannot fathom loading centerfires with Blue Dot.

I'd pay $80.00 per brick of 22LR long before I spent any time doing this kind of schit.

If you need sub-sonic centerfires, Trail Boss works well.



Travis

No kidding. Like I said, if I want to sling 6mm bullets slower, with less powder, I use my 6x45 with full house loads.

Hard to not like using the slowest burning powder that works for a particular case/bullet.

I can't get enough RL22 in an 06 case to cause any problems.

"The problem with the new Alliant load tables is that their marketing staff makes them list only their bullets. Not good for a powder company to do that. It is still usable data, but I do not like it."

I didn't know Alliant made bullets.

Do you have/had an Ackley improved cartridge? What do you think the concept was? But,a hint would be to start at the beginning...

Ditto!!!!

Speer. Same company. Vista Outdoors. Headquarters in Utah.

Been lurking on this thread since it was pointed out to me while down at the Campfire Get-Together down in Arizona this past weekend...

With no insult to the OP intended, as I have said many times, if you don't want to use Blue Dot in a cartridge, then don't. If you don't know what you are doing at the reload bench, then don't use it either...

But these types of powders are not only used by pistol reloaders and carry precautions...the same is true of cast bullet shooters..in rifle calibers

a lot of folks can speculate ideas, but often they have little hands on experience... they are passing on what they've heard elsewhere and passing it off as their own original thoughts... or 'experiences'....

Don't follow where Red Dot or Green Dot are great and Blue Dot is a ticking time bomb...

I worked up and developed the loads I use in every one of the cartridges I have used it in.. from 223 right up to 338 Win Mag and 444 Marlin...

I have found Blue Dot to be one of the most consistent of ALL rifle powders I have used in reloading...

I haven't experienced ANY of the occasional "kabooom" posts one sees on the internet...

I've probably pulled the trigger on 25 to 30 thousand reloads using this powder, since I started working with it...and have not seen one failure or 'kabooom' with it....

with a disclaimer besides working up loads to see where the point was that it would cause hard bolt lifts, or pop primers.. but those times were intention during load development.

maybe it is just as the detractors want to always tell me... that "I've just been lucky so far"....but after the number of reloads I have done with it... maybe they are wrong...

regardless of the powder I have loaded, into whatever the cartridge... if a mishap occurred, I can always track it back to an oversight at the load bench...and any honest reloader will say that...

I am glad the OP is fine, and wasn't hurt. Only real mishaps I have experienced was with a 223... one was factory Black Hills ammo...damaged an action and a stock... which I repaired....
Contacted Black Hills and let them know about it, and sent them the remaining 9 rounds out of a 50 round package.. never heard back from them... they probably thought I wanted something... I was just letting them know of the mishap, so they could check their QC... turns out the load is 25 grains of H 335 and a 55 grain Hornady SP... real bread and butter every day load... who knows what happened...

then 30 days later, was reloading some 223s with the same load ( before I found out that was what Black Hills was using).. the situation repeated it self...

who knows if there were some bad batches of H 335 out there or what...all I know is that I won't touch H 335 anymore in ANY cartridge....

and I forward that recommendation to anyone that has had problems with any powder... we have too many choices available to us....

so if Blue Dot doesn't work for ya, or you have a fear of it, then why mess with it...

but for those of you that bad mouth it... that's just fine.. but if you have no hands on experience with it.. that usually shows..
and that applies to anything...

I'll continue to use it as it has given me good service, and I am sure will continue to do so...a good ten years ago, Ben Ammonette from Alliant actually sent me an email and asked if I would be willing to forward my work with it to him, Load data I worked up... he wanted to share it with some of their engineers..

I did so... and got a thank you from him....

that is as far as it went... but also, try to find any load data that cast bullet shooters use from Alliant, that have to do with load data using their powders for cast bullet rifle applications...

and yeah, data on these loads was developed without a pressure lab, etc... but were developing good old fashion common sense...
which can go along way some days...people use it less nowadays than in days gone by...

this is being posted by me with no personal insults meant to anyone for their opinions.. and is not an invitation for a debate that will degenerated into a lot of name calling per usual, according to campfire tradition...

These loads work for me, and I am sure there are others that will continue to use them with out any on line fanfare.

and I'll close with saying, besides using Blue Dot, I use loads that use Unique, SR 4759, the 4198s, RL 7, RL 10, H 322, 3031, IMR 4895 for reduced velocity loads.... there are other powders than work well also...

Granted these are not the real slow fill the case and forget about it type of powders.. these are powders that you sorta have to watch what the heck you are doing at the reload bench... If that is too much of a challenge, then the slowest powder you can find is your best choice...

but good reloading technique and discipline at the bench, is the first step to safety....reloading is risky.. for God's sake, we are taking something that will explode when we are done and putting it in front of our faces....before we do so...

paying attention and using common sense, can dramatically reduce the chances of hurting your self, or someone else...

If one doesn't want to cross that bridge, then there is factory loaded ammo... and if something wrong happens, you can blame them, instead of looking in the mirror trying to figure out who was responsible...( and that statement isn't aimed at Montana Badger, its just a realistic statement addressing the concept in general)...

and as the mythical Forrest Gump summarized... "that's all I got to say 'bout that.."

cheers
seafire

Throw your Blue Dot away.

Next topic.

Lets talk about the .3338 Win mag. Is it better than the .338?

I like Forrest Gump.

I like to Dot chitt now and again. It works.

This message approved by F. Gump.

Looked in my powder cabinet - couldn't find any BD - gonna keep it that way. Bullseye, H110, Power pistol and H4227 are perminate cabinet residents.

Blue Dot reckless , no condom
Blue Dot carfully ,condom, what if condom breaks ?

Some play with whores with out condoms, some use condoms. Condoms break , some catch the clap , gonnerra , ect. or die of aids. Others live for ever. Just because some do it and get away with it, does not mean it's the thing to do.

So it appears the answer is to always wear a condom while loading rifle cartridges with Blue Dot??......

Some even realize blue dot is no where near as dangerous as the whores you are talking about.

That was my take... I went down to Walgreens and bought me a couple of boxes... wife asked what those we're for? My response was " what the hell do you think they are for???? they're for wearing when loading and using Blue Dot powder...."

She wasn't jealous, thinking they were for me messing around with another woman... she told me she had read it somewhere that its a safe thing to do, wearing a condom when shooting Blue Dot....

Finally, someone explains in a way everyone can understand.




If you have Blue Dots, get a biopsy.

montanabadger - do you tumble your cases? There have been cases of a build-up of media sticking in a case and greatly reducing its capacity.

You hit the nail right on the head. You loaded it, outside normal practices, and shot it. Your only mistake might have been using data that was not safe. It sucks to lose a good gun, it sucks even more to get hurt, but you are here to type about it while able to view the screen. Where it me, I'd stick to pressure tested stuff.

And follow gun makers suggestions to ONLY shoot FACTORY ammo.

Thats another good start.

Why not wear three Blue Dot "condoms?"

1) Weigh rather than throw charges.
2) Visual powder level before seating bullet.
3) Weigh every loaded round to know it lies within parameters.

DakotaDeer, you forgot
4) Immediately seat a bullet after performing 1-3.

When I use Blue Dot (and cast bullet loads with fast powders that can double or triple charge) I sequence load. Throw charge. Weigh charge. Put charge in primed case. Seat bullet. Repeat with the next case. It's slower, but it's safer. And I've screwed up once by charging an entire block then seating bullets with cast bullets in .30-06 and 2400 with an "approved" load. Believe me, it only takes once. And it was my fault.

Say it ain't so... using a pistol powder, 2400, in a rifle case... LOL.

Only ammo I've ever had problems with came from a factory.

Reloaders have their own factories! LOL.

2400 fps in the Hornet, hence it's nomenclature. I suppose Elmer Keith might be to blame for its categorization as a pistol powder. But Blue Dot owes its origin to shotgun applications it seems. Which makes me wonder…I accidentally purchased Titewad instead of Titegroup a few years ago. With the dearth of good pistol powders these days, I wonder where I should start with 'T-wad' in the 38 Spl? (Hodgdon only lists a single non-shotgun application for it that I can find: 124s in the 9mm.)

(I'd load Blue Dot in my revolvers if I hadn't already burned it up in my 30-30. )

You boys don't have to worry about any Blue Dot mishaps in the future... hasn't anyone told you? I have it all now...

Alliant is supplying to me exclusively...

Montanabadger: I am glad to hear you are safe!
Was that "blue dot" mishap (?) a result of a "book" (loading manual) recommended load or were you freelancing?
Again I am thankful YOU are intact.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

VarmintGuy,

Do you remember when the Seahawks got their asses kicked in the Super Bowl?

That was awesome.



Travis

Two minutes and one second...... not bad. I knew I type too slow to be in contention.

Yeah, Varmint Tool, Idiots threw a pass down on the goal line. Can you believe it?

Got intercepted. Sherman cried. Okok disappeared.

VarmintGuy its been 15 pages, what took you so long?

You're not the first to ask.

The second sentence in the OP says "I WEIGHED EVERY LOAD"

You even quoted it

Doesn't anyone read these posts?

That does not mean much to most reloaders. Weighing every load involves actually putting each and every throw from the measure on the scale and balancing it until a reading is given.

If that was not done specifically for each loaded round, then he did not "weigh every load."

Yes I can read, as I am the one who asked him that earlier specifically, and he gave a rather vague answer. So I asked it again specifically. Maybe you should read the entire thread and try to keep up.

Blue Dot is easy to use and load with, but an overcharge is a time bomb. If someone cannot guarantee through their loading practices that an overcharge did not occur, then they should not bother using it.

Why the hell would I bother to put every load on the scale if I was not going to balance out the scale. Or do you have some other definition of weighing every load.

Over load Maybe?

But BD has some unexpected qualities to it. Simple as that.

Not internet talk. Pure experiences in different applications in various handgun loads in the past by me.

Pressure spikes in a normal linear progression. Not at max listed loads either. Out of dozens and dozens of different powders I have used in the last 46 years of hand loading only BD has done this.

Never used BD as a reduced load in rifle cartridges.
Have used it with good success in heavy 12 gauge loads.

I don't know. You're the one who blew the gun up with Blue Dot. My assumption is that you got an overcharge somehow.

Did you do a visual check on the powder level before seating each bullet?

I did not do a visual check, as I said before I am not ruling any thing out, including the possibility of me effing up or the possibility of a one in a million chance thing happening due to the properties of blue dot. No one will ever know for sure what happened because what triggered the event is burned up. There is only one reason for weighing every load is for quality controll, and to keep from blowing your effing head off. There is only one right way to weigh every load and that is the way you described. I said I weighed every one, and I shouldn't have to wright an effing novel to explain it to you. I will never be absolutely sure what happened, and will never be comfortable using it again in that application again.

All this just to make a reduced velocity load in a rifle cartridge? Turn the primed cases upside down, turn them up one by one to receive a WEIGHED not measured charge of powder, shine a light down the neck to make sure you somehow didn't go dirt brain and load 2 charges, then immediately seat a bullet to insure you won't go dirt brain again before moving the cartridge case 6" to the press to immediately seat a bullet. Then weigh each individual cartridge to quadruple check for a double charge. Tell me again how this is all worthwhile???

Reminds me of the joys of eating blowfish.

edit: speaking not to you montanabadger, just questioning the whole dang process.

There is one thing I haven't mentioned the one that blew things apart was out in the cold the others were not, don't know if that is a factor or not.

Overwhelming probability of a loading error.

I once missed putting powder in a reload, as careful as I thought I was. It sounded strange when I fired, luckily I looked down the barrel as the bullet was still in it. Scared the chit out of me. I almost just jacked another shell in and fired.

Couple times I put powder in the funnel and it wouldn't go down, I already had put powder in the case. Complacency or loss of concentration loading large numbers at one time was the cause.

With blue dot you have to have multiple checks before a bullet is seated, visual extremely so, can't be too careful.

Kent

As you can probably imagine, me sitting here with a rifle that's FUBAR, and lucky to have all my body parts am questioning it also.

Actually I do a similar thing with pistol loads. Say with .38 Special using Bullseye. Use two trays. One on the right with primed cases mouth down. Pull one, charge the case, look inside, put it in the tray on left mouth up. Then seat bullets when the tray is full.

But I look absolutely careless compared to the blue dot process. Different strokes I suppose........