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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 9,611
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 9,611 |
I've been telling you boys to stop fooling with the pistol powders. Fire forming, squib loads and any other way...you're fooling w/dynamite in a small package. One pulled trigger is all it takes to lose an arm, eye or your life. Do as you please. powdr
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,067
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,067 |
Had a 17 grain Blue Dot 55 grain nosler load possibly destroy my 243 AI today. I weighed every load and seated each bullet right after powder was poured into the case. It's possible to get a double load in one, but I'm pretty positive I didn't. The shot was loud, I felt some particals hit my face, and the bolt is stuck so tight it can't be hammered open. Other than having to change my shorts I had no injuries. I do some light Unique loads in 223/40 VMax. I made sure my load density was a little over 50% so a double charge would overflow and make me aware. I weigh them out too, due to possible powder bridging in the thrower. Maybe others are right, in that it could be a practice that just isn't worth getting hurt over.
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453 |
A few more things I have learned on the 'Fire... A.Don't pour gasoline down a yellow jacket hole...
WTF? Best way to get rid of the nasty little buggers, especially when a match is added soon afterward. Now pouring Blue Dot down a yellow jacket hole would be interesting. I have almost a pound of BlueDot. You know I'm going to have to try that.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 22,884
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 22,884 |
A powder measure was used and each load was weighed, no l didn't weigh the loaded cases, but the remaining ones will be checked out. Okay, so you weighed each charge. What's the possibility of an over-charge (scale mishap) or an actual double-charge?
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 3,104
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 3,104 |
A few more things I have learned on the 'Fire... A.Don't pour gasoline down a yellow jacket hole...
WTF? Best way to get rid of the nasty little buggers, especially when a match is added soon afterward. Now pouring Blue Dot down a yellow jacket hole would be interesting. I have almost a pound of BlueDot. You know I'm going to have to try that. use gas, send me the Blue Dot. Got some .41mag to load.. lol
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453 |
use gas, send me the Blue Dot. Got some .41mag to load.. lol
HazMat is too expensive. I'll run into multiple jacket holes this year. I'll just use each, at least once.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491 |
The last batch of 223's I loaded were with red dot. My Lyman manual must be f'd up. Actually I think almost every powder listed is a "pistol" powder. If I'm not mistaken imr 4227 was the slowest powder listed for the 55gr. I think I'll call them in the morning. They seem to be confused on what's a "rifle" powder and what's a "pistol" powder. There are a lot of pistol powders listed for cast loads in the 222, 223, and similar cases - including Red Dot, Green Dot, Unique, and Herco among Hercules/Alliant powders. What's interesting is that Blue Dot does not show up in Lyman's data until you get into the pistol cartridges. Perhaps Lyman (and Alliant) know some things that aren't commonly known among the masses?
Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 11,265
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 11,265 |
The last batch of 223's I loaded were with red dot. My Lyman manual must be f'd up. Actually I think almost every powder listed is a "pistol" powder. If I'm not mistaken imr 4227 was the slowest powder listed for the 55gr. I think I'll call them in the morning. They seem to be confused on what's a "rifle" powder and what's a "pistol" powder. There are a lot of pistol powders listed for cast loads in the 222, 223, and similar cases - including Red Dot, Green Dot, Unique, and Herco among Hercules/Alliant powders. What's interesting is that Blue Dot does not show up in Lyman's data until you get into the pistol cartridges. Perhaps Lyman (and Alliant) know some things that aren't commonly known among the masses? This is probably true.^^^^^ It pays to have a library of old loading manuals. I have had good luck with BD in heavy shotgun loads. Not so much in pistol loads. Lack of accuracy or unexpected pressure spikes compared to other powders. There are many other good powders to use in heavy pistol loads without these problems. The problem with the new Alliant load tables is that their marketing staff makes them list only their bullets. Not good for a powder company to do that. It is still usable data, but I do not like it.
Gun Shows are almost as comical as boat ramps in the Spring.
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 5,932
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 5,932 |
I've been telling you boys to stop fooling with the pistol powders. Fire forming, squib loads and any other way...you're fooling w/dynamite in a small package. One pulled trigger is all it takes to lose an arm, eye or your life. Do as you please. powdr Finally something that makes sense, well kinda!
Beware of thieves, scammers and dishonest members on the "Fire" classifieds. Ya there is a thief here too. Whatever!!
They're all around the CampFire and everywhere.
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,081
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,081 |
The last batch of 223's I loaded were with red dot. My Lyman manual must be f'd up. Actually I think almost every powder listed is a "pistol" powder. If I'm not mistaken imr 4227 was the slowest powder listed for the 55gr. I think I'll call them in the morning. They seem to be confused on what's a "rifle" powder and what's a "pistol" powder. There are a lot of pistol powders listed for cast loads in the 222, 223, and similar cases - including Red Dot, Green Dot, Unique, and Herco among Hercules/Alliant powders. What's interesting is that Blue Dot does not show up in Lyman's data until you get into the pistol cartridges. Perhaps Lyman (and Alliant) know some things that aren't commonly known among the masses? I noticed that too. I was pointing out the "pistol" powder thing. I have no idea why lyman didn't list blue dot when they have listed many powders both above, and below it in burn rate. They have pressure testing equipment and I do not. I should add that I've loaded a lot of 223 blue dot loads with jacketed bullets and never had a problem. I've also loaded them with unique, I think I'll just stick with the unique from now on.
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 22,274
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 22,274 |
If I want a reduced load, then I'll typically just pick a smaller cartridge. You can do reduced loads in rifle catridges, but you have to manage the excess space in the case one way or another, either with fillers, or different powders, and those approaches have their pitfalls.
I dabbled some with reduced whitetail loads in the .375 H&H years ago, and they shot extremely well, but if you didn't watch you'd get either a hangfire, or had to use a filler.
"...the designer of the .270 Ingwe cartridge!..."
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491 |
Here's a recent reply I got from Alliant about the 41 Mag problem with Blue Dot: M___, There is no current tested load data using Blue Dot for the 41 magnum. There is a pressure issue with this cartridge and using Blue Dot. Thanks, Shoot Straight D______ CCI/SPEER/ALLIANT POWDER 2299 Snake River Ave. Lewiston, ID That doesn't really spell things out, but it is their current prescription. I wonder if it's at all like some of the shotgun powders where a fairly large primer flash ignites a powder charge that's always in contact with the flash hole? Perhaps some powders aren't so perfectly suited to the more open conditions of the pistol cases, working many times, but occasionally misbehaving?
Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 21,317
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 21,317 |
A powder measure was used and each load was weighed, no l didn't weigh the loaded cases, but the remaining ones will be checked out. Okay, so you weighed each charge. What's the possibility of an over-charge (scale mishap) or an actual double-charge? Could be the charge was spot on for weight and for some reason the load had an unexplained pressure excursion. Something we'll never know as the proof went poof when he pulled the trigger.
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 22,884
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 22,884 |
That could be, yes.
The FAR MORE LIKELY scenario is that there was too much powder in the case, as thousands upon thousands of Blue Dot loads have been used without incident by just the members here, let alone everyone else.
I generally go for the simplest explanation that would handle the data.
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,720
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,720 |
The problem is when a pistol powder got used in a rifle case. Period.
Come on America, Athletes and actors are not heroes, only soldiers, airmen,marines and sailors get that respect�and let's add firemen and LEO's
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,480
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,480 |
Thats not the problem as noted lots of pistol powders are used in rifle cases
Its all I use in 300/221... pistol powder...
I"d say either over charge or detonation due to no filler.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,720
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,720 |
A case(221FB) that holds about 20 grains is not a fair comparison to a case(243AI) that will hold double or more... Any "AI" case is meant to run hard and fasted than standard cartridges with case full of proper rifle powder,mostly on the slow side at that. It's in the man's book.. P.O.Ackley was an frontiersman and smart builder
Come on America, Athletes and actors are not heroes, only soldiers, airmen,marines and sailors get that respect�and let's add firemen and LEO's
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 22,274
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 22,274 |
I'd still recommend weighing the remaining cartridges, to see if any are under or over-charged. That might help determine exactly what happened.
"...the designer of the .270 Ingwe cartridge!..."
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,720
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,720 |
True,good caution..but doesn't matter now,gun is trashed...
Come on America, Athletes and actors are not heroes, only soldiers, airmen,marines and sailors get that respect�and let's add firemen and LEO's
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 727
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 727 |
A case(221FB) that holds about 20 grains is not a fair comparison to a case(243AI) that will hold double or more... Any "AI" case is meant to run hard and fasted than standard cartridges with case full of proper rifle powder,mostly on the slow side at that. It's in the man's book.. P.O.Ackley was an frontiersman and smart builder I've got both of Ackle's books, and don't remember seeing anything like this. Can you tell me which book he wrote this in? Was it book 1, or book 2? Respects, Richard
Cat, the other white meat!
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