I live in a decent neighborhood. Not what I consider too upscale. We rent a modest 3BR 2BA home. The houses are all "cookie cutter" type houses basically All one level, all brick. Basically all look the same. This is definately not a gated type community. We do have a homeowner assoc. though. Our landlord has to be a memeber and must comply with the bylaws and covenants. We keep the yard cut, the cars are basically clean, the kids put up their bikes, footballs, etc for the most part. We live like decent people. Here are the problems: Our first "run in" was an email from the landlord. He informed us that the Homeowners Assoc. had written him about a violation of ours. I had leaned a rake up against the side of the house righ outside the garage and forgotten it. Appearently someone thinks this violates the covenants and actually took the time to write a letter about it. Our landlord acknowledge he thought it was very chickenshit...and forwarded us a copy of the covenants. It is in fact not covered in the covenants. Rake now stays! And I even bought some ribbons and balloons to decorate it with. Next incident. I let my dog out each morning and afternoon. I let him run off leash because he rarely goes far, always comes back, and there is no real fear of traffic in this neighborhood. He usually does his business in our yard, but I know he does it elsewhere too. Personally I don't care about a pile of dog mess in my yard...it gets taken care of with the next mowing, or a shovel if its in the way. I guess if every dog in the neighborhood used my yard I might have a problem, but frankly I don't care. Well my wife and I come home sunday and find dog crap in our driveway. Obviously not neatly piled by the original maker. I ponder and suspect that someone is mad that my dog crapped in their yard. Sure enough, monday, same thing, same place. Now I know!

Here is the problem I have...I cant stand chicken [bleep] people that are too afraid to come politely tell me they have a problem with me or something Im doing. Usually, if they are nice and its not a totally unreasonable request I will comply. But, these people are sneaky, backstabbing, wretched little twirps that have little or no life, and no balls or guts enough to stand up for what they want or want to say.

The obvious answer is to move. Thats in the works, but not because of these things...we just hate living in such a neighborhood, and want to get to the country. These things just solidify our resolve to get away from people. However, I am now on a mission...first to find out the culprit placing the dog crap. Now I need suggestions on what to do when I find out. They've throw down the gauntlet as far as Im concerned. Your best revenge ideas for chickens**t spinless a-holes will be much appreciated. Please don't include such things as shooting them, or destroying a car with sand in the gas tank, etc. I am better than them and wont stoop that low or do something that will land me in jail. But there has to be a way.


edited: suggestions, ALL of them taken and appreciated. Even the ones that were negative.

Set up a motion sensitive camera, like a trail camera, rigged to take pics when something enters that area.

A couple of pics, and you've got trespass and probably something else (unlawful deposition of animal feces... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> ). Figure out who the little turd is from the photo, and send them a certified letter with their pics in it, along with a trespass citation. CC: this info to your landlord.

Oh, and take the dog for a walk on a leash, will ya?

PRAMITOL... it is a ground sterrilant........ It should stay dead for the whole summer and maybe part of the next...depending on rainfall.. use creative words like YUPPIE, JELLYFISH, ....... 721

HOAs are a blight on freedom. I made a decision to move out of our "dream house" because of the Nazi Liberal attitude of those who support HOAs and the unreasonable restrictions and rules they have. I did not fully understand what an HOA could legally do when I bought the house. I do now and will not make the mistake of living in one again.

Having said that, it is a foul to let you dog poop on someone else's property w/o cleaning it up. I do not let my dogs poop in someone else's yard, and I expect neighbors to keep control of their dogs (and cats) as well. I agree that anonymously spreeading poop isn't the answer. If it were my yard your dog had pooped in, I would do like my wife has done in the past when she caught someone with their dog "in the act". She told them to clean it up, the person did, and we had no more dog poop in our front yard.

order them pizzas...15 or so....
order a load of concrete to be delivered eeeeearly on Saturday morning....... I 'm sure a pizzed off truck driver that had to work on his day off would have a few things to say to them!! 721

Well, I think you're going about it the wrong way.

Decorating the rake, I think, was a bad move. Funny, maybe satisfying, but counterproductive. You have to live with these people; deliberately pissing them off is not what you want to do.

Also, letting your dog despoil other folks' lawns isn't a good way to win friends and influence people. Even if you don't mind such things on your own lawn, it's a little unrealistic to expect that other folks shouldn't mind it either.

I think you want to find out who's honked at you, take him (or her, but if it's a her take your wife along) a plate of homemade cookies, and ask him if there's anything you need to apologize for. If there is, then apologize, and mean it. Don't even mention the stuff in your driveway. If you can establish and cultivate a relationship with this person, whoever he is, it may amount to an "in" with the Chickens**t Brigade in your neighborhood (ten to one the person you're looking for is a tremendous gossip); if you get to know the right people, you might be able to bring about a real change.

Playing at revenge and counter-revenge is a juvenile game (even if it is funny, challenging, and temporarily satisfying) that's liable to lead to civil or criminal charges at some point, and you're starting it at a significant disadvantage, since your opponent knows who you are and you don't know who he is.

To find out who he is, consider a game camera.

721;

As fun as your remedies sound, considering what .280 does, and how much he needs to retain both a good reputation and a practice free of ethical inquiries, I suggest he refrain from having any fun.

I think someone in your neighborhood is blowing things out of proportion. So you left a rake out, big deal. I would ignore such trivial stuff altogether.

As for pets running free you are in the wrong. I think any neighbor who sees your dog crap on his property SHOULD tell you about.

My view is all this stuff is a matter of priorties. How important is it to you? If it bothers you either talk to your neighbors and come to an understanding or move. Don't bother messing with their properties, who knows you may be the one caught on camera.

.280
Grow up.Control your dog.And quit thinking about chicken [bleep] little ways to get back at a chicken [bleep] little people.All you will do is become them.

YMMV

.280 Rem...I'd be inclined to first attempt to get to know the nieghbors and let them meet me and my family.
Let them know that IF there's something they are concerned about involving you to simply stop by and talk thru it.

Barak pretty much nailed it.

Keep your dog in your own yard or on a leash and IF he craps on someone els' property while on a walk, pick it up.

Try first to build some bridges-relationships.
Plenty of time to move or get ugly-stupid-reactive if sincere efforts don't work..
Good luck..Jim

+1

Love thine enemies. (It'll drive them crazy. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> )


You live under an HOA. Yes, there are chickensh*ts everywhere and they are the one's who can make HOA living a PITA. They are the same petty, miserable, self hating little chickensh*ts who ruin fine gun clubs or any other association they are in.

But the HOA is also why your neighbors don't have broken down cars in the front yard, their houses look nice and your property values aren't decreased by someone else's blight. Actually, since you are a renter that doesn't bother you. But ask the average homeowner in America in a nice neighborhood of dweller owned housing how they feel about renters. Not the specific "nicest people you'd ever want to know", but take a poll of people in mixed single family/rental unit neighborhoods. Renters, in general, bring down property values. It's why there are huge zoning battles when someone wants to start building duplexes and such in a single family neighborhood.

But I digress.

You let your dog crap in someone else's yard.
They don't like it and instead of asking you politely not to do that, they take petty revenge. Bad on them.

You want to take petty revenge on them. Bad on you.

Find out who they are and then apologize for letting your dog crap in their yard. Take the high road, put a face on their complaint (your face) so they have to confront an actual human and if they have any honor at all it will make them ashamed of their petty behavior.

He wanted ideas, thats what I gave him!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Be it sound, practical, or inhumane.... I dont live there or have a clue what his social standings are...... dont really care!! I have ideas for everything..... doesnt mean I would use them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> 721

Had this person had the spine to come to my door and ask me that, or even send me a signed letter...I'd have been glad to comply. People walk their dogs around here on leashes a lot...they still crap in others yards though. I have only seen one anal retentive wench that actually carries a zip lock and picks her dog's up. She's my prime suspect by the way. Right before this all started I let my dog out in my yard and went out with him. He's a "fixed" lab. He's non aggressive...in fact hes a great big pu$$y. He also comes when called. The "lady" with the "store bought tits" and matching pair of dog gave me a look like she'd like to kill me because her dogs were going crazy barking, jumping, and pulling her around because they are out of control dogs. My dog never crossed the street to leave my yard, never came anywhere near her or her dogs.

"I know he does it elsewhere too."

Your neighbor shouldnt have to go to you and tell you that your dog is doing his yard. You already know your dog is messing someones yard, so why do you let him continue? I don't blame your neighbor one bit. You deserve dog crap in the driveway. I would do the same thing except it would be on the front porch.

Turning your dog loose to random crap someone elses yard is
a very selfish move. I want to say classic white trash but I'd better not, I wouldnt want to offend you.


If this pi^$& you off, well, you asked. You deserve what you get as far as I'm concerned.

That said, the rake thing is overboard.

To all...

Thanks for the ideas...cooler heads must prevail! Leaving it alone is the best solution. And walking my dog on a leash too. I could use the exercise Im sure. I just so hate chickensh*t people who will do anything to avoid confrontation, yet have something burning to tell you. By the way, I am grown up, it just p-o's me when my dog might have crapped in this persons yard once...and I get this type of reaction. Bottom line I'd be as chickensh*t as them to retaliate.

While I hate having to live within a hoa where I am I dislike people that let their dogs run loose and crap in my yard even more. I hate the ones that walk their dogs on an extra long leash so they can run up into peoples yards and crap even more than the loose ones.
The conduct you you have descibed is is CS, but letting your dog run loose is also. tom

Sorry, Barak, there is revenge that is right.

Trail camera, identify, home-baked cookies or the like, a knock on the door, neatly dressed, a very polite presentation of the "gift", and explanation you are sorry for the problem your dog caused, very politely inform them you would greatly appreciate it if they would approach you in "person" the next time they believe to be an issue. Say thank you for answering the door, turn around and leave.

Walla, you've just had your revenge by teaching them a lesson!!!

Several years ago we had a neighbor, renter. who had no respect for anyones property. His dogs ran free and crapped in my yard every day. I confronted him but he did not care, these dogs would be tied out at night and spend most of the night barking. Don't know how he and his family could stand that. In the mornings he let the dogs go. I soon started delievering shovels full of dog crap to his front door....this did no good. Situation went on for a long time until I was out accross the road in the wooded area, about 64000 acres hiking around and lo and behold there was a dead deer with two familiar dogs munching down . These were two of my best shots from my 357 I ever made. No more dog crap in my yard....I do not advise taking such actions in a neighborhood. I also put a shovel full of dog crap in the cab of the guys truck.He would never say a word to my face but I did hear him call me many names that my late mother would never say. The loser and family were evicted . Later I saw in the news paper where he had been caught dumping garbage on some ones property....the only prosecution for such an act that I can remember seeing in 30 years.

Bullwnkl.

SU35,

If you think that type of retaliation is acceptable for my dog running loose on occassion, I think maybe you need to examine you.

I agree that I am in the wrong about letting my dog do that. I can change that and will. However, deserving what I get for that....I think that's a little extreme! You don't live in my neighborhood do you? Is this how you'd address a problem neighbor? Or would you first attempt a man to man talk? That was my only gripe. But since you think that was not necessary...ok then. Since I should have known better, then however they act is cool huh?

Grow up! Good grief you let your animals run and crap all over the place destroying bushes, shrubs laws etc. And like you said you basicly don't care. Look up personal responsability as an adult. First you are probably breaking the law in your area by letting you anumial run, you are dissrespcting your neighbors right to enjoy their property by allowing your animals to deficate on their land. If you don't like the rules move. I had a loud mouth Ahole just like you for a neighbor several years ago. After his dog destroyed my screen door and half my lawn I confronted him and asked him to clean up his Chit and pay for the damages. His response was to get drunk and try to walk through my house with his dog! That's why people dont confront others directly as often theese days. After that I sued him for the cost of the screen and lawn. Not what I wanted to do but some folks just dont get the concept of not destroying someone elses property. He has been a good neighbor since. I really have to say this is a mighty pathetic position for a grown man educated in the law to be taking. No doubt your just so special you dont have to follow the law. And some wonder why lawyers have a bad name. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
FWIW I dont like HOAS one bit either but I try to live by the rules at least to the extent I'm not breaking the law or harming someone elses property and impeeding the enjoyment of their yard.
Your neighbors acted appropriatly contacting the association. Funny how you didnt care if your dog crap was in their yard but you take great exception to it being returned. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

.280:

Glad to see you're starting to cool off. Barak and others have steered you right.

VAnimrod knows, and I certainly know, and YOU certainly know that some of your clients come to your office after treading the path that you wisely - wisely, my friend - stepped away from.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

- TJM

I don't live in a neighborhood with HOA'a, but I do live in a neighborhood with courteous people. Nearly everyone cleans up after their dog/dogs. When my dog died, and I did get some poop in my yard, I was not happy. I was under the assumption that I wouldn't have to clean up dog poop any more. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> However, on one occasion, before my dog died, she got out, completely without me knowing. I was taking a nap, the neighbor brought her home, and gave me a royal butt-chewing, the dog had gotten into her garbage. Completely our fault. So I offered to clean it up, appologized and all that. She kept chewing on me. I offered and appologized again, she kept chewing on me. I finally told her how many times I had offered to clean it up, how many times I appologized and did she want me to clean it up, or did she just want to b$tch at me? That sort of caught her off guard and she said, "Well, if you really want to clean it up, that would be nice." Of course I cleaned it up, but she ragged on me the whole time! Some people just need something to complain about.

She also claimed it was a repeat offense. It was not, there were/are several yellow labs in the neighborhood, mine just got out that one day and got caught.

Keep you dog contained one way or another and you'll know it's not your dog messing on someone else's lawn.

M

Stetson,

My dog has never destroyed anything! He may have crapped somewhere, but never destroyed anything. I never said I don't care either. I said I don't appreciate the childish reaction. Im used to living where I can let my dog loose. Most times I stand in the yard with him and he doesn't leave. I have been guilty of being busy and let him go for a while. I get some people might take offense, and I would profusely apologize if they'd have said somethng...as wrong as what I did was, I assure you I wont apologize to someone that would do what they did, even if they were wronged by me.

You had to know that somehow, some way, somebody could bring in the fact that Im a lawyer. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Invite them to join the campfire <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />... They'll either fit right in, pop a hose, or be so busy sparring with everyone else, they won't have TIME to mess with you....

Sounds like there's definately an @$$hole, and it ain't the neighbors.....

280, been there buddy, A few years ago I was in a neighborhood like yours when I had a neighbors dog pooping my yard. I went to him not once but twice, he didnt care and for the most part I find that people that let there dog do it and KNOW their dog is doing it, don't care in the first place.

If I found poop on my driveway after knowing my dog was out I would not wait for my neighbors to come to me. I would be going to them!

280 the fact that your a barrister is relevant because you sir are educated in the law and type of neighbor I would want to look to to be reasonable and obey the law. You know you can not let a dog run in a neighborhood. You know you can not let your dog deficate on some one elses lawn. That does destroy shrubs and lawns. If your renting wait until you buy a house and you will have the great pleasure of finding out how expensive sod and shrubs are. I think you also need to respect that some folks in this world hate confrontation and yes, even dogs. I'm glad to see you admidt you were wrong and correct that behavior. In my book that's the mark of an educated adult. The reaction of putting the poo back was over the top and childish but decorating a rake just to wet your neighbors cheerios isn't exactly going to win you any good manners awards. Remember theese folks are your neighbors and fighting with your neighbors is about the most unpleasant thing you can do in life.

SU and Stetson,

I failed to admit I was wrong in the original post. However I sort of did by saying I understood these neighbors not wanting my dog crapping in their yard and that my problem was not with that, but their way of handling it. I made an error in judgement letting my dog run loose primarily because Im used to living in a place where I can legally do that, and not have anyone complain. Even educated people make errors. My personality is the type that had someone come to me, even in anger, and said leash your dog, or sent me a letter, I definatly would have gone to them hat in hand and apologized AND fixed the problem. Their childish reaction to a minor and infrequent problem (I usually, though not always, went out with my dog to ensure he stayed in my yard) pissed me off, and blinded me even more to my own responsibility for the problem. Its like what happened to me one time with a big "meat-headed" redneck. I was walking with friends and we were at an outdoor function that was kind of crowded. I wasn't paying attention as I was talking to someone and bumped in to this "meat head". He was with his trashy girlfriend and I guess thought he needed to prove how tough he was. Before anything was said I reacted with an "excuse me, Im sorry". He proceded to start with "hey buddy, watch where you're going...pay attention next time why don't ya" and on and on. He sort of half bowed up thinking he was just posturing and I'd slink off...after a few seconds of looking at him like "you're crazy man" I said: "fine then you a$$hole, f**k you...I already said excuse me Im sorry." I bowed up and dared him...he didn't take the bait. (thank goodness as I was betting he was all bark and no bite, and Im the kind that is neither if I can help it, but I aint a doormat either) Its like you can make a mistake or misstep, and know you have and even be contrite about it, but if the reaction is so out of proportion, you begin to not care you made the mistake.

Don't move to the Country. If you let your dog loose, he's likely to be shot by some redneck yahoo when he defecates on or otherwise destroys some one else's property.

There is that possibility...

For some that seems to be fitting punishment. One thing I know....my dog never did anything wrong...though the owner might have.

280-

Life is too short...pack up and move!

Until then put your dog on an overhead cable-run, take a pocketful of grocery sacks in your pocket when you walk your dog and pick up his [bleep].

You don't need to kiss your neighbor's a$$es, but don't go out of your way to pissem off.

YMMV:)

IMO Barak nailed it... If the neighbor continues be behave like an ass after an attempt to make peace... well, I thought VA's suggestion has the potential to be entertaining<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

One major problem...I don't know who it is. I sure don't want to accuse without knowing. However, I will not apologize to someone that has done that. No cookies, nothing. Had I been given the courtesy of seeing if I would continue being an [bleep]...I can assure you I would not have...but I wasn't afforded that chance.

Lots of good replies above. Take your pick.

I will NEVER, EVER live in a house that I have to abide by some HOA... It's why I live in the country, and will live in the country until they carry my sorry butt out to the hearse..

That said, I had a somewhat similar incident a coupla years ago. When I clear snow from my fairly substantial driveway, part of it gets pushed across the road into the far ditch. After a few snows it had built up a bit but I always watch it to make sure it doesn't pose a drifting hazard. One morning my son takes a call from a 'private number' (mistake #1)and it's some woman who's bitching about the snow in the ditch (mistake #2) . Adam tried to have her hold so he could call me to the phone but she wouldn't (mistake #3). After Adam told me that she was complaining, guess what I did?

Every snowfall after that had me bringing ALL the snow I could find out to that same ditch. I also called the phone company to have them install 'private number blocking'. So, next time she, or any other whiner, calls they'll have to use their regular number.

If she'd called again I was going to give her several suggestions as to what she should do; ranging from "use a different road" to "move to FL., " to "mind your own damn business" to "tell God to make it quit snowing"..

Re: the dog issue.. Gotta agree that if you live in a town/city etc., you better keep your dog on a leash and have it crap in your own yard. Dogs that run loose around these parts will just disappear.. I would find out via camera who's leaving the piles, visit them with hat in hand and apologize for your dog and tell 'em it won't happen again.

Love the rake deal though.. I'd have done the same thing but I would have added a shovel, a hoe and whatever else I could find to lean up against the garage.. Too many freakin rules/regs when it comes to city livin'....

Best to you.

EmphASSES on you continuing to be an a**. Your words. You started the problem and what are you upset about counsler? You played dirty and they played back. You got just what you gave. Littoraly. Clean it up and move on. Good grief.

I see one flaw in your reasoning: you are assuming the person who complained about the rake is the same person who complained about your dog. Not necessarily so.

It takes two to create an adversarial relationship. Refuse to participate in the game--let the ball drop.

if you are going to move anyway, pull out all the stops after you identify your tormentor, and just hound them until you leave.
Sometimes I don't know whats worse, bad neighbors or pontificating holier than thou types on BBS.

Not trying to justify the old bats reasoning, but in some counties it's against the law to push snow across a road.

Wow, never thought I would be agreeing with Barak

Just as an adjunct to the conversation, I live in a townhouse complex now and am the president of the evil Nazi HOA, so I have to really mind my P's and Q's when it comes to my dog. He has learned to do his business only on one small strip of lawn adjoining my unit. In fact, it's kind of funny to see him come running from down the block just to barely make it to his toilet area in time. He's that well trained.

However, a neighbor lady two doors down has a beautiful flower garden which is in full bloom now and is simply irresistable. So at night I like to go over there and take a big dump amongst her flowers. I just love the way the peonies tickle my butt...

Try wiping with a marigold... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


SS

Might be fun, but that's what her cat is for... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Has anyone sent you a flower scented gift box lately? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> You might have fun collecting the association doos this year. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Maybe just me... but I don't think bringing your dog's poop back to your driveway is particularly chick****. They wanted to tell you that they didn't appreciate your dog's "gifts".... Message has been received. Why does it matter who it is? I don't see why you think that someone owes you a knock on the door to talk about it. Why is it up to them to show that courtesy when you're not being very courteous yourself (dog-wise)??

As others have said, often (usually) a neighbor that lets their dog run free won't be contrite/apologetic if they get a knock on the door anyway, so why bother?? They probably didn't want a big confrontation... just want you to keep your dog to yourself.

BTW, I suspect that the rake thing wasn't really about the rake... it was probably about the dog too. Also, moving to the country doesn't necessarily make things better. I know folks who live on acreages who've had problems with the neighbors dogs coming over to their property and harrassing their own dog or their kids. Sometimes has ended in a dead dog & long feud.

I'm a dog owner now, but most of my life wasn't. Some life long dog owners think nothing of the odd errant peice of sh**... but I still think letting the dog out of the yard to do it's business is extraordinarily rude. Dealing with the crap is part of your job as the pet owner. That means it doen't end up on someone else's yard, or left in a park for some kid to step in.

Even if it wasn't them that brought the poop back, I bet other neighbors would be glad if you walked on a leash or kept your dog in a fenced yard etc.... So why be so upset at the person who delivered the message to you? I don't see how you've been wronged.

anyway, that's my $.02

280,

HOA's are Nazi's!! I am planning on moving into a house shortly, and I am trying to find a Subdivision that has no HOA.

Neighbors are also an issue. I can't stand my current ones. There is more than one way to get peoples attention and get them to act differently.
I must say before I start, you did do a few things wrong. On the other hand a rack is no reason for a fine or even a fight. I think both parties are big sissy's and need to move on.
Before you do, here's what you do. Every morning and every evening. Get a bench or table, and put it out in the drive way where people can see it. Next, take out you cleaning kits and everything you need to clean a gun. Then after that, get a gun you need to clean or want to clean. Pull up a chair or just stand there and clean your gun(s) as people walking their dogs pass by. In a friendly tone as they pass say hi or ask how they are doing. Also talk positive about their dog or ask questions about it. Do this for a few days or until you get tired of cleaning your guns or run out of guns to clean.
Doing this outside may be against your HOA CC&R's, you may even get another letter. But the fact is people will see you as a nice person who likes his neighbors and is a dog person and most importantly friendly. They will also see you own gun(s) and you like to keep them clean. Get the picture yet?
You can also go out fishing and catch some fish, invite the people next door and across the street to a fish fry. Bring up how you like the outdoors and also that you have had some issues with people doing stuff in your driveway. Explain that you understand your wrongs and that you feel bad that things like this are happening. But also at the same time you don't agree with it and would like it to stop.
Eventually it will get around your neighborhood and all will be will.

I may take a lot of flack for this post, but it is a good way to stay positive and get results. being friendly and talkitive makes people think and people seeing you clean your gun makes them think too. Don't clean your gun outside though if you are not going to be friendly and talkitive. That would seem as a threat and thats what you don't want. You want positivity and a friendly repport.

Guys forgive me if I seem childish and crazy.

Enrique

True, there's no law governing the way they have to behave, but dumping poop anonymously on a neighbor's driveway is textbook classic passive-aggressive behavior.

Just get some Romper Stompers and call it good........

Ahhhh yeah....I love livin' in the woods....... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

It seems obvious to me that the driveway deposit was the response to a bigger problem. I refer to your descriptions of your neighbors; you seem mad at the world, or at least anyone that looks at you wrong.The rake was the first sign. It appears that someone siezed the first opportunity to tell you something, be it anonymous and CS in nature. Also, being an attorney, you should be no stranger to HOA rules. I was handed one when I was starting the process of buying my last 3 houses. Animals running free is usually near the top.
I have dealt with neighbors who see no problem with their dogs crapping in my yard. I beg to differ. Not much pisses me off more than that around my home. My main culprit,as it turns out, was letting it happen at night. I know because I caught him. Scared the hell out of him. No apologies or concern on his part, other than the fact that he got busted.
You know what the problem is, and if you don't buy into what being a good neighbor is about then you better move to where you don't have any. I suspect that is where you belong.

My Uncle (who has lived on the farm all his life) said it well. The first thing that anyone who moves from the city to an acreage does is drag three rusty broken down cars onto their front yard and let their four dogs loose.

As a sheep farmer he has very little tolerence for neighbour dogs in his pens. More then a couple have met their demise by trespassing.

Be aware that moving to the country may not necessarily resolve the issue of you letting your dogs roam.


SS

Some dog owners really have no respect for others people's property. My wife's caught a few neighborhood women allowing their dog to take a dump on our front yard. She tells them to pick it up and take it with them. Their excuse, "well you have two dogs also". Then the boss explains to em that our dogs aren't allowed to sh&t in the front yard either. If they don't have their own bag the boss lady provides them with one to carry their fertilizer home with them. You wouldn't believe some of their attitudes. Best one is when she tells them about the dog we had with parvo. Funny to watch them hightail it over to the other side of the road when they get near our yard <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Sorry but if you let your dog crap in my yard because you were not watching him and it kept happening then doggie would get a weenie with something bad in it. I take my yard very seriously and spend a lot of money and time keeping it like a fairway. Someone like you living next to me would not be an issue as we would have become friends and you would know to keep the pooch out of the yard. Just be considerate and hopefully, the people who are blowing you in to the HOA will cease and desist or is there something else we are not aware of?

Hey 280, I have thrown dog s__t back into my neighbors yard many times after he let his dog out to run for just a little while. I have also barked down on people who let their dogs do there duty in my yard. Like I tell them, I already have a dog that does that for me, I don't need yours to do it. Control your pet. Period. Steve

When we see dogs running on the ranch they are shot no questions asked period. Many a good dog had met his or her demise that way including some high dollar Walkers but when we see them running wildlife and you should see what they will do--dogs kill to kill not just to eat. People who let dogs run off of their land take the dogs life in their hands. Last year was a good year and I did not have to shoot any but if people would just pay attention to their animals then a lot of problems could be avoided.

Agreed.


SS

Motion sensing game camera figure out who is dumping on your driveway.
You said you are going to move soon? Save the deposits that are left on the driveway, the last thing you do when you move return them with the pictures.

You should see my neighborhood! As soon as the sun goes down people start letting their dogs out to do their "business". Man does this piss me off. My next door neigbor has two dogs chained up in his driveway. They bark constantly when they are tied there. The piles of dog feces that are allowed to accumulate is incredible. They(humans) don't care a bit about it.

Right now I've decided to take some photos of their driveway in case I have to pursue legal recourse. My property is about 3 feet from this stinking sewer. The dogs literally foam at the mouth, tearing at their chains, whenever one of us goes to get into one of our cars parked in our driveway. I have two small kids and am about to call the cops on them.

Any dog that is free roaming and comes into my yard at night to make a "deposit" has a good chance of getting hot pepper sprayed. They usually choose some one else's yard after that.

Moving to the country is no guarantee of being free of neighbor problems. About a year ago, I got a visit from the sheriffs department telling me that one of my neighbors had called to complain about gunfire coming from my property. The officer clarified that there were no ordinances against gunfire out in the country where we live, but stated that he was just here to express a concern of one of my neighbors.

Despite my best efforts at interrogate him to find out which neighbor it was that had called... he wasn't willing to give up the name. Word circulated quickly that I was unhappy that someone had called the law and the neighbors that lived close enough to potentially be bothered by gunfire went out of their way to let me know that it hadn't been them who had called. I began to assume that it was a man who built a vacation log cabin on a ridge top perhaps a half-mile away from my house. I then began to consider the purchase of a propane cannon to protect my fruit trees. I was thinking about how I only expected to have pests to repel during the hours that my closest neighbors were away at work, and only on the days when the gate was down leading up to the part-time home of the guy I suspected of calling the cops.

Fortunately, I cooled off enough to go knock on this guy's door before investing in my canon. He acknowledged that he had noticed I had been firing some "pretty big stuff" recently, but adamantly denied that he called the cops. I expanded my search after this and went to introduce myself to a couple who had recently put in a modular home beyond where I thought someone would be close enough to be bothered. They turned out to be an older couple who had health problems and a very high strung small dog, whom they were very attached to. They never openly acknowledged that it had been them who called the cops, but did state that gunfire always made their dog nervous. The man added that he had a pistol that he needed to get out and shoot some and observed that the dog was probably going to need to learn to adjust to the sounds of gunfire now that they were living in the country.

I gave them my unlisted phone number and told them to call me if they needed to get in touch with me for any reason. Apparently we've reached a truce...

Several months after that, a member of a wildlife club I belong to told of how he had a similar visit from the sheriffs Department. On this occasion, he was told that despite the fact that he lived out in the country where there are no noise ordinances, they were required to respond to every shots being fired complaint that they received. This guy reports that the cops told him that if they had to make repeated visits to his property to investigate such reports... he would be billed for the cost of sending someone out to investigate. Does anyone know if that is true?

I would think the cost would go to the complainant if it isn't a valid complaint. Since there isn't a noise violation (and presumably no firearms violation) and you weren't the one who called them out, you shouldn't have to pay. I think they would have a hard time making that stick.


SS

I hope that is correct. Everyone and their brother is building 2nd homes in "my" little part of the world. The property values have gotten so high that the people that are from here have to travel to see their grandkids... because their kids couldn't afford a starter home in the area. There is a real culture clash between the country club 2nd home set and those of us still working to make a living here.

stetson,

I can see you're clearly in the 2 wrongs make a right so long as you're the second wrongdoer and not the first. Coming from the educated man you say I am...that don't make sense. But you're entitled to your opinions.

I can absolutely say that I have taken responsibility for my part in it, I wont retaliate, but I damn sure wont apologize either. That bridge got burned with the form of retaliation perpetrated on me.

Some points I see that need clearing up here. It was not my dogs poop returned to me...it was another dogs...obvious from size. The rake incident has nothing to do with the poop. It matters not if they are one in the same person.

I have gotten the message, said here in plain english I was wrong, and I wont retaliate...now I have to read about how any way I get treated is ok...but my assholish (actually just lapse in judgment, not intended to cause any harm, and most importantly didn't cause any harm) is unforgivable. I disagree.

Deleted my post - Since other dogs in the neighborhood roam, this is starting to turn into a whole lotta s##t about a little poop, or a little poop about a whole lotta s##t, DON'T KNOW WHICH.

I'm sure I have no idea what you mean but Your really breaking my heart with the story about the attorney that gets shi* on.

geesh...someones dog "gifts" a neighbor with a present. The neighbor returns said "gift" because they do not accept "gifts " from strangers. So what is the problem?? Did your feelings get hurt because they did not like the "gift"??

.280Rem;
I'm going to make a note to myself to read more of your posts...since I don't have time to watch Opra and Dr. Phil.

I understand your feelings. I don't like people like that either. In fact I dislike them almost as much as people who own big assed dogs, disobey leash laws, and let them zhit in my yard. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

I have a neighbor that has a really big dog
that craps in my yard every now and then.
It's a very big dog and the turds are big enough
to stall my lawnmower. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
No sympathy here...
Bart

Ergo the Romper Stompers, tis just like Romper Room.....

Pretty cool what you can do, and how you can make someone look by picking and choosing the words you choose to quote isn't it?

Isn't it really just "Re-Gifting"?..... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />

it ain't the quotes.............

One of your best posts...Truly...
Bart

OK- I'm skipping the last dozen or so posts.

.280 - an underground yard containment system is relatively cheap (I fenced in my 1.5 acres for about $350), quickly installed, very effective, and portable. For $300 bucks or so ( An hour's salary for you, 2 days for me), you have not only solved your "problem", your neighbor's problem, but more importantly, the safety of your dog.

These systems can be expanded considerably, merely by adding wire, when you move. The biggest problem is remembering to put the danged collar on, but after awhile (2 years or so) the dog would rather stay in the yard than have to wear the collar. Every so often they'll start straying and have to wear the collar awhile, again.

Check it out.

Your pride/ego is getting in the way- what matters is not the chickchit of others, but of yourself. Get over it.

.280Rem...
Never was one to join in a pack biting on another that seems vulnerable...

I saw that you knew what was the best approach early-on in this thread and tho it won't affect me personally..have confidence you are a man who'll do the right things well. ......

and I know that you certainly didn't need my perspective to know how to handle the matter.:)..but ya did ask us..:)

Hope things in your new neighborhood improve and you and the neighbors enjoy and tolerate one another.

Don't sweat the small stuff...and most of what folks get wound-up about is small stuff...
For that matter, don't sweat the big stuff..just work thru it with a mindset of how you'd want the matter to be treated if you were the one under the gun...

Laugh.Live.Love.Forgive...and yes there are times to drop the hammer..but they in truth occur very infrequently and after about all else has been tried and rejected for reconciliation..jim

Heck you don't even need to bury wire anymore. Lowes sells a system that uses a transmitter. When the dog gets to far away from it he 1st get a beep. If he keeps going he gets "the correction". I've been thinking that these would work well for prisioner work programs. No more need for illegal labor....just sentenced laborers<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

And kids! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

WOW....this is a long thread.

Rem.280 never said he wasn't in the wrong for letting his critter chit circles on the neighborhood.....he was just sayin' he wished the person that took the time to report the rake, and/or make the foreign deposit on his driveway, had come to him, and settled the issue...face to face.

Can't blame him, really. I loathe people that take the passive-aggressive route.....cuz it's the chicken chit way of doin' business <IMHO>....sort of like passin' the buck. That said, I suppose that is why people are willing to pay HOA dues, sadly. Let someone else do the bitchin' and moanin' for ya, eh?!

The whole HOA system makes no sense to me.....talk about a sheeple reality.....but to each their own.....some people are content to live on/with a postal stamp reality <shudder>.

Just my .02.

HoundGirl

Now I'm getting confused. 1st I'm in compleat agreement with Barak and now Hound Girl makes a post that sounds almost like something Stick would write... is the moon stuck on full? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

I only read thru the first 1/4 of this thread ... and I'm pretty sure I'm about to parrot some of the the things that have already been said ... but I'll say them anyway ...

.280 ... You're as wrong as whoever these "CS" people you're referring to are ... and personally, I can't stand people that agree to live under certain rules, find out later that they really don't like the rules they agreed to live under, and then bitch and complain, and call people "CS" for making a formal complaint against them.

The rake thing might not be a "broken rule" ... and I agree that if they had a problem with you, they should have been kind enough to address it personally ... but my guess is that they are sick of you letting the dog run loose, and probably some other "borderline" things that you're doing that violate the HOA rules and covenants ... and the rake was just the straw that broke the camel's back ...

Besides that, I think it's pretty lame of you to basically insist that the way your neighbors handle the situation is to informally address you personally to discuss the problem(s) ... Shame on you for knowingly putting them in a position where they have to make/file a complaint against you!

Whatever the reason(s) for you and your family deciding to move out of the neighborhood, I'm sure that your complaining neighbors are just as happy, if not happier, than you are that you're on your way out. Seems that it's gonna work out best for everyone this way ...

And just for reference, I live in a neighborhood like yours ... we have a civic association for the community, and we pay dues on top of it ... I've "broken" a couple of rules, unknowingly, and fortunately for me my neighbors have been kind enough to come directly to me and let me know that I need to stop doing what I was doing ... In this case, it was blowing my leftover grass clippings into the street ... so, I stopped ... end of story. But to even further emphasize my point, I'm not a complainer ... I have one old geriatric neighbor lady next door that lets her little dog out into her backyard every morning about about 5:30am ... the stupid little dog barks its head off constantly, waking my wife and kids up all the time ... but we just let it go ... Another thing is my idiot neighbor on the other side of me that has a pool, and refuses to keep the gate closed and locked ... granted, it's the gate across his driveway, but still, I have a two year old that could easily wander over into the pool ... so what do my wife and I do? We just make sure we stay outside with the boy when he's playing so that he doesn't end up drowning ... I've talked to them once before, and they still don't keep it closed as they should ... and it's not just a community rule, it's a city ordinance that the pool be secured ... So, if they don't start shutting the gate after I ask them a second time, I will THEN file a formal complaint ...

Sorry for going off about that stuff, but I'm just making the point that we all do live together, and if you're willing to continually, knowingly break the rules, you get what you deserve, as long as your neighbors are following the rules in calling you out on it ...

Finally, if I recall, you're an attorney ... so you of all people should KNOW that the rules and covenants are there for a reason, and are expected to be abided by ... and when your neighbors follow the guidelines for filing a complaint, they are simply acting by the guidelines that were written up (or at least approved by) a fellow attorney ...

How's that for irony?

Things might make a whole lot more sense if we had the neighbors side of the story......

I don't think ol' 280Rem would like the results of sending his flea bag to Democrat in my yard either...

Seems unreasonable....to shoot a dog that chits in your yard, once or twice.....seems like over-kill, no pun intended <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />!

Shooting a dog for messing with your livestock, or children, however, might be justified.

What if you shot someone's dog that had dug out of it's fenced reality <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />?!

HoundGirl

Seems unreasonable for you to defend a generic dog who you do not even think didn't "do" the hypothetical crime.........

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

First off...I think I agreed to that first sentence early on in this thread and about a half dozen times or so after that, and said I would not retaliate, and that I'd fix my wrongdoing...yet people still feel the need to point it out...getting sick of that part...I took responsibility for my part and have fixed it. Do you feel better to remind me?

Second, I didn't agree to live under any rules....I was never informed of any rules...I rented, the landlord took my check and continues to. I have yet to be provided with a copy of the covenants. AND I don't commit any "borderline" infractions. AND the people that complained about a rake standing against my house...they are in fact chickenshit, any way you slice it or them. Plain old no life having chickenshit passive aggressive a$$holes. And if they waned me to stop breaking an unwritten rule, hell yes they needed to come tell me! I and my wife routinely see an old couple driving slowly through the neighborhood, that we know lives here. We live in the back of the developement where there is no exit...the only reason they'd be back here is to look and/or inspect. They drive slowly through and stop and write on a pad. Too much time on their hands. AND to file a formal complaint, when no formal rul has been broken, that too is major league chickenshit.

Im going to say this one last time...in bold so its not mistaken...I agreed a while back in this thread that my wanting to retaliate was wrong, because I was wrong to let my dog run loose...I dont know how many times or any other way to say I was wrong! Any further comments informing me of what I have admitted too heap them on if you feel better about you for doing so!

I thought they taught lawyers to never ever ask a question they didn't already know the answer to? ooops. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

You wouldn't say that if you didn't have your computer to hide behind.

Now you edited it...For your own good...

Post edited by me. As much as I really can't stand Bart for the lies he has told and the constant strife I really dislike the fact that I dropped to his level even more.
I'm still waiting for you to post that PM Bart you lying sack of dog chit! ooops...No pun intended! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Hoo Boy, am I glad I live in the country. All I have to worry about is my neighbors old bull getting loose once in a while. He deposits a pile of spoor in my yard but what the hey, it is just organic fertilizer. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


BCR

Hi, HG. Probably shouldn't get into this, but let me change one word of your post and see if that brings sense to this.

"The whole Constitution system makes no sense to me....talk about a sheeple reality....."

That whole rules and regulations thing to create an orderly society sure does suck, doesn't it? They really get in the way of exercising someone's freedom.

Okay, not going to pick on you, HG, you're a nice person, just happen to be using your post as the catalyst for my post, so when I put "you" in the following I'm not referring to you personally. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


Now, not going to defend ALL Home Owner's Associations as I only know of one, and I've heard too many anecdotes of larger ones and the petty little miscreants that cause trouble for everyone.

But if the association is so small that you know every one of your neighbors' first and last names (how many of you can name the neighbors full names three houses down, and the six houses across the street?), it works like old genuine democracies used to work. We have meetings, 10 people get together, visit, have some snacks and decide what's what and what's not. No bickering and passive aggressive bullsh*t because there are faces and names attached to everybody in the HOA.

And when someone sells their house to a real estate speculator in Southern california, and that real estate speculator, who has never seen the area, rents his unit to three 20 year old characters who get home at 2:30 each morning and their friends come over to start the partying in the front and back yards and for 50 yards in all directions you can hear the conversations which consist almost entirely of "F'n this and F'in that and F'in Sh*t and F you and did you see that F'in b*tch I f*cked on the couch last night", and leaving empty beer bottles on the front yard and cigarette butts all over the neighbor's back yards and friends peeling out at 4:30 AM...

Well, you get the picture. And I'm not making this up. And the other 9 people in our little quiet corner of the world who are all professionals - nurse/anesthetist, Director of Environmental Quality for ID, systems analyst (yours truly), upscale restaurant owner, accountant - well, we just don't appreciate having our lives and our investments polluted by low rent trailer trash.

So, we sic'ed the HOA rules on the owner, who when I called him in Southern CA was actually a very nice guy, and he had them out in about three weeks. Now we have a very nice young married couple in that unit and everyone is happy.

It works kind of like a tiny village when the reavers and barbarians come to town. We band together and drive out the infection. Not what everyone likes and lots of people will think that's un-American, but I would state that that's what America used to be. Be nice or we gonna ride yo' butt outta town on a rail. Maybe it offends someones idea that "I oughtta be able to do any damn thing I want and you can't tell me otherwise." May be. There are still lots of neighborhoods where you see nice house - nice house - weeds and broken vehicles - nice house - weeds - you get the picture and I'm sure everyone knows of such neighborhoods. Perhaps those that don't play well with others would prefer those neighborhoods.

But again, 10 people get together, (well, 9 now) we talk, we decide what is best for our common good, and we take steps to make it so.

They are surely NOT for everybody, and not for all times in one's life. I've lived in a 100 year old farmhouse with lots of acreage in upstate NY and in a house with a huge back yard and fields all around just outside of a tiny town in Idaho and I enjoyed each of those at that time of my life.

But at this advanced middle age stage of my life, single, fairly financially successful, with a potty trained dog <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />, I don't mind the rules that I get to vote on, and kind of like having a nice quiet tiny neighborhood where we all know and watch out for each other.

Now I know as sure as the sun rises that lots of folks will indignantly respond about their freedom to do as they dang well wish and no g-d HOA is gonna tell them what to do.

That's okay with me. This is America, folks can live where you want. And if you want to live off by yourself and do whatever you damn well please, that's also fine with me and I'm sure some of the rest of us probably appreciate that in more ways than one.

But please don't make broad condemning statements out of hand about sheeple without realizing that everybody is different and everybody has different wants and needs, and if it isn't right for you that's okay but it also isn't right to spit on someone else's choice.

High on my list of things that pi$$ me off is people that let their dogs pee and crap on other's property. A couple of years ago I was in the front yard pulling weeds and a neighbour lady was walking her dog. She let her dog walk about 12 feet or so onto my lawn, and then calmly watched it as it squat and peed. I was no more than a few yards away in plain sight!

I asked her, "Maam, how would you like it if I walked over to your yard and pi$$ed all over your lawn?" She huffed and walked away with her little dog and I haven't seen her since.

Hey Stetson, not trying to start a peeing contest with ya, just got a wild guess kinda question for you... have you felt like you have gotten the REALLY short end of the stick as a result of uh... lets say underhanded behavior by a lawyer?
Great rolling around icon use up above by the way<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I love my HOA---would not buy a house in a development that did not have one!! I keep my house and yard perfect and I do not want a lazy bum living down the street causing my homes vale to be adversely impacted.

My wifes a physician and owns a family practice clinic with several other Docs. I'm guessing that might answer your question. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
When a certain lawyer first joined the campfire he sent me a PM asking me for all my game recipes so he could publish them in a cook book he is allegedly working on. In exchange he offered to give me some fantastic recipe that I could impress my friends with. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> LOL. Now ain't that just like a lawyer wanting to set on his azz and profit from some one elses work? I give my recipes out here and offer what help I can in that respect to campfire members but I think it would be fair to say that I thought the offer was a bit narcissitic at best and did leave a little pucker factor.
Any guesses who that particular mouth piece with the grand offer was?

Ummm... 'tweren't me. Just so there's no ambiguity on this one...

VA has my respect and way more class than that. I still reserve the right to bust his chops for being a counsler. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Jim,

Your HOA may work, but my research shows it is the rare exeption. After my experience with one here in AZ, I am definitely in the anti-HOA camp. HOAs are mini-governments accountable to no one, vested with an incredible amount of power with extremely few checks and balances. The worst abuses have been when attorneys representing HOAs have foreclosed on properties over tiny issues and then bought those houses themselves at 10% of the market value.

Cities and counties like HOAs because the HOA pays for maintaining many of the areas the city/county normally would be responsible for. That is probably why cities/counties require HOAs for the majority of new development. Thank God state legislatures are starting to pass laws that limit the powers of HOAs, though it's too little too late for many.

I live in gated community containing 110 3/4 to 1 acre lots. The last few houses are just now being built. The developer--whom I befriended--told me the county forced him to come up with CCRs before they would let he develop the land. He had something like a day to come up with CCRs so he "borrowed" soem from a city-slicker development on micro-lots, changed the names, and they became law. We are now stuck with them.

I built my house so I could do most of what I wanted within the guidlines of the CCRs. I figured I could become part of the process and help make this development a nice place to live. I became a member of the Transition Committe, specifically the chair of the CCR committe and a member of the Archetural review committe. The developer was the board member, and still is until the association is fully transitioned to the homeowner's in a few months.

The team originally seemed to agree the CCRs were overly restrictive. I was tasked with reviewing the CCRs and then highlighting areas that we should consider changing. I did that. The plan was for the Team to reach a consensus, the present these changes to the rest of the homeowners for a vote. Well, the control freaks on the committe changed their minds.

I and several others wanted to limit the power of the Board, because power ALWAYS corrupts. We wanted the CCR document to be the rule, and written so it was clear and applicable. I hate having excessively restrictive rules that are selectively enforced.

Well, the control freaks on the Team wanted to have all these rules "just in case" they needed them. They wanted the Board to have absolute authority because "no one will ever abuse that power." This shows ZERO understanding of human nature or knowledge of history. Crud, just with HOAs, lawsuits involving HOAs have increased something like threefold every year for the last dozen or so years. This doesn't even count the well-known abuses that have occurred.

I immediately resigned from the team. I did not want my name IN ANY WAY associated with such people. The developer and the freedom-loving members of the Transition Team tried to talk me out of resigning, but I refuse to be part of an over-controlling authoritian socialist regieme.

They have ruined my dream house. I was STUPID beyond measure to even try to live in an HOA--lesson learned. The solution is that we are moving out of our dream house, which is the nicest house we will ever be able to afford.

What are some of these unreasonable rules? We all have 3/4 to 1 acre lots. We live in the county. I cannot let my parents or in-laws (in their 70s and on fixed incomes) bring their travel trailers, park the trailers BEHIND my 6 foot block wall fence, and visit. I could understand it if the RV had to be parked in the driveway or on the street, but not allowing family to visit for a week or two (I have no issue with a time limit) on a lot set up for it is unreasonable. Evidently, these authoritatian socialists are tender people, because having to look at an RV behind a 6' block wall for a week or two casues them stress and pain.

I also cannot work on my own vehicles in my garage with the garage door open. Neither can anyone have ANY kind of home business or conduct ANY gainful occupation an ANY property. This means you cannot earn income by doing stuff on your computer, and it also means you can't bring work home if it is part of your employment.

Those are just three examples. The authoritarian socialist solution is to keep overly restrictive rules and let the Board have ultimate power to approve variances. This is going to bite them in the @ss eventually, because they will eventually have a Board who won't say "no" to anything. Now if they rewrote the CCRs, they could prevent a Board from going to far either way.

However, in about 15 months, none of this will be any of my concern. I consider this a lesson well learned, though a very sad one.

That lawyer wasn't me either.

Most people that talk that way about lawyers are scared of them.

I have come to realize some things here, and Im glad I posted this post, though Im being raked over the coals...it taught me a lesson. Namely that just because it doesn't offend me, doesn't me somebody wont be highly offended...that being a dog pooping or peeing in my yard. Second, that some people, whether you admit your wrongdoing or not, still gotta take their shots at you for it. And that there are still plenty out there that will take anything negative and make be because you're a lawyer. And oh by the way, I aint the only one guitly in my n'hood of letting a dog run loose...but I sure as hell aint gonna be guilty of it in the future.

Blaine,

If it makes you feel better. Continental Ranch I believe it was fired their HOA. They got rid of all the BS and got one that cared and listened to the home owners. The Nazi's can be taken care of if it becomes to extreme.
I am with you on this one. HOA=the devil. No matter how clean they will keep the neighborhood or how what. I don't like people to tell me how to keep my house/land that I paid for. Nor will I pay someone a fee to live in a house I bought. If that was the case, I would keep renting. No sir no HOA for me.

Enrique

Blaine, I wouldn't argue with your post one iota.

I do note that your HOA consists of 110 lots if I read that correctly, whereas ours is 10 units of a self contained townhouse complex consisting of a series of adjoining two story units and four single story units.

Just like democracy doesn't particularly work well beyond a certain point, same with an HOA. The nice thing about our little group is that if we don't like a particular rule or want to make an exception we all get together and everybody gets to vote on it. Democracy pure and simple.

Like I said, they surely aren't for everybody and I wouldn't want to live under some faceless group of people and their autocratic behavior. Ours only works so well because it's small.





(And also because I'm president of the HOA and rule with an iron fist! I've recently decided to invade the neighboring townhouse complex, but that's another story... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> )

I think a lot of you are blaming the HOA's instead of realizing that it's a few of the people in the neighborhood that are to be "blamed" ... Bottom line is that a properly and reasonably written set of guidelines for a community or neighborhood is a good thing ... it allows for the area to be maintained to a certain level so that it looks "acceptable" at all times, and helps to maintain the property value. It seems to me that in most cases mentioned here, the covenants, regs, and guidelines were poorly written, and there are a few people per neighborhood that have decided to take it upon themselves to police the area to the extreme interpretation of said rules. HOA or no HOA, if the vast majority of the members of the community feel one way about how things should be, it's really not that hard to make the necessary changes so that things are made acceptable to the majority.

As per the lawyer/attorney business ... I'm not one, but my father is, and so are my three younger brothers... I know all I need to know about them, and here's my opinion... They can only do what is allowed by the law ... sure, they can try to find a way to convince a judge (or others) that their interpretation of the laws is the correct one, but the bottom line is that they are bound by the written law and rules ... so again, if the neighborhood restrictions are so poorly written that it's easy for an attorney to make a case that (for example) a rake leaning against your garage at the end of your driveway is a violation, then it's not the attorney's fault ... it's the way the regs are written ... The attorney is merely doing his/her job in representing their "client" as best they can as per their clients direction ...

Just 'cause I'm feeling conversational this morning, let me pose a question.

Does anybody live under city or county zoning ordinances? Do any city, county, state or federal laws apply? If so, then basically you have someone telling you what you can and can't do with your house and property.

As to the fee, yep, if it just went into a black hole that would be a bad thing. But does anyone pay for a lawn service? Pay to have your house painted? That's where our fees went.

Again, no argument with anyone that doesn't like an HOA. And in a place of indidivual homes I can sure see where it would rankle someone. But hey, if you live in a cookie cutter abode anyway (which I give a s*** about since I do all my living inside with my wood floors and fireplace and 12 foot ceiling and built in bookshelves and all that cool stuff). For me, I pay $70 a month and my lawn and shrubs are kept very nice and anything that happens to the exterior of my house or any one else's house is taken care of.

I used to mow about 1/2 acre and at one time had to mow 4 acres and have stood on a two story ladder and scraped and sanded and painted 'til I'm sick of it. At 53 I'm content to let the illegal aliens on the lawn care service do the job...

(about the illegal aliens - that's a joke, son, I say, that's a joke.)

(I think?) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


Anyway, no arguments from me for someone else's choices.

Stetson, small world, my wife is a doc in a family practice group too. The litigious nature of our society has changed the way that medicine has to be practiced. Some states can't keep doctors because of the astronomical rates for malpractice insurance.

Game recipe rustling you say...I'll bet your Yosemite Sam Avatar would have a strong response to that sort of thing<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

jeez I wanna put y 02 in on this topi but y keyboard wont let e <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

its driing e razy <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

i dont are if soeone else wants to lie with an HOA but i ouldnt it would drie e nuts to be ontrolled like that

guess its ool that eeryone has the freedo to hoose

he might even call him a long-eared galoot! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Jim,

I have no problem listening to City or County ordinances, that is Gov't. I do however have a problem with People acting like Nazi's trying to tell me what I can or can't do with a house I payed for.
Here in AZ, the HOA fees go to The HOA board, keeping the pool clean and keeping the common grounds nice. They do nothing for the property the home owners bought. I could see if they had people come and landscape yards and such, but they don't.
In Tucson, people were paying a HOA where the money really was going into a black hole. After many years, i think 10 or 15, people of the community started asking questions about the HOA. Come to find out there is not one and they were paying who knows who x dollars in HOA fees that they don't even know. Kinda funny, but at the same time keeps you on your toes.
The only HOA that does the jobs you mentioned are the Townhouse and condo ones.

Nice conversation Jim, hopefully we'll habe more.

Enrique

You might want to rethink that post. BTW How's your cook book going? Geesh and some folks wonder why lawyers get a bad name.

Wait a minute...I need to get the popcorn... ok go ahead...

Yeah me too. I'm looking forward to this pizzin match because some one has a serious friggen case of alzheimers or is just full of good old doogy doo! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

City livin' is the closest thing I can think of to what I would imagine prison life to be. I really can't imagine going through life worrying about offending the neighbors. I keep my place looking good because I like to - to hell with what others are doing --- I really don't care! As to the issue at hand, it seems to me whoever is dumping the dog chit in .280's yard ought to have told him to control his mutt first. Can't say I know what the solution to the problem is because I refuse to live in such a situation and therefore have no experience with it. It really is no wonder that city folks are a little tighter wound than those in rural areas - I'd be a wreck.

Hek you ant een pik your own house olor or hae a basketball hoop hange your own oil and on and on just to nae a few of the rules

razy

i ant iagine paying 200000 plus for a flat i ant een hoose the olors on

obiously it works though or they wouldnt eist

this keyboard is driing e nuts

Too much, Bart!

Use enough mower! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

HG,Someone stole your M's...
Bart

She's just typing that way to get attention..............


<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

....yep. I wuz right. By now, they'd be BEGGING you for mercy.....

You edited this post how many times there Stetson?
You are a foul little man!!!
You called me a [bleep] and a liar for the last time.
Do you understand Stetson?
Bart

Bart--you do root for the Horns don't you??? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> Oh My!!!

lol <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

hush now i a trying like hell to work a free oputer out of this deal <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

i know i a gonna pay for that oent lol but i ouldnt resist

i dont understand the oents about the ookbook whos ookbook and what that has to do with this thread i need to go bak and read

I noticed that this keyboard malfunction occurred shortly after I opined that one of her posts was beginning to remind me of Stick's uh, unique writing style... probably isn't any correlation <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

When you start making house payments, and you get a neighbor that trashes their house, or more likely their landlords, and your property value drops, you will instantly understand HOA's

From a personal friedom standpoint, I can't stand them. From an economic standpoint, one of the things I'm pleased about in the house we chose is that it has rather thorough covenents, which has made for a house I could sell anytime I want, and that has appreciated signifigantly over the years.

Unless you live where you can't see the neighbors, covenents and restrictions seem to do more good than harm.

i an see it fro your perspetie

it would suk if soeone oed in and lowered property alues and so on

i personally just dont think i ould get past the idea of soone else setting rules that deterine what i an an ant do on y own property on y own tie

it would drie e razy

like i said earlier they ust work for soe people or they wouldnt be as popular as they are

- sorry for the keyboard proble i know it is hard to read <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> -

typed like a true blond HG....:)

"sorry for the keyboard proble i know it is hard to read"

Actually, it's not so bad. If you've ever been around a 2 year old just learning to talk, You "sound" just like that. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


Just teasing ya some. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I'm not saying I always follow the rules <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Nor have they kept from ticking me off at times.

On the other hand, I look at the alternative of a wanna be rednick or methlab next door, and figure I'll put up with some crap, gotta get back on topic <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I figure with the money I've made on the place, we can move out into the sticks into something we'll completely pay off.

The real key is who you neigbors are, and if they are close enough to be bothered by what you do on your property. If your neighbors are cool, or you can't see them, and they can't see you, doesn't really matter what the rules are.

stetson...

now you're lying...I am not and never did say anything about publishing a cookbook. If you ever took that from anything I wrote other than a friendly exchange of recipes...you're badly mistaken. I do recall talking to you about your cooking experiences...but I have not ever, nor do I ever plan to publish any book, cookbook or otherwise for profit or not for profit. I keep one here I put together for my own personal use...period.

Edited to add: Stetson, I have read all your post in this thread. I have admitted to my mistake in the whole matter. You absolutely wont let it go at that. You first started with cherry picking quotes to further your tyrade. You rail against lawyers...out of fear most likely. You call others like Bart names. You threaten from a keyboad from miles and miles away. You go back and read all my responses. I took in good nature and as constructive comments the shots taken at my actions by most all here if they were even remotely constructive and not just taking a free shot at me....that was most all but you! Even the ones that said their feelings about dogs running lose and really laid in to me I didn't mind so much because I realized I was wrong! But man... you're sick ! You're twisted. You come to an internet board and call names here and make up complete lies. I see now why you were so supportive of someone placing dog crap in my driveway. Its a glowing example of passive aggressive behavior, and thats your #1 personality trait! By the way, its classified as an Axis II disorder! Seek help man!

If you want to continue this lets get a couple of things straight.

Firstly show me where I made some threat. I'll reserve further comment on that until I see what the sam he** your talking about with threats just out of idle curiosity.

Second let me clue you in about Bart. He has tried to say in the past that he is in possesion of a PM which he claims I sent him. He was challanged to produce it and could not. He begged me at one point to let the issue drop and another time he admiditted I would not respond to his PM's and he was spitting nails mad about it. Today he made up some phoney little quote and put it up trying to insinuate it was my PM. Based on the limited response he got I think it's fair to say most saw right through it. I won't be loosing any sleep or getting upset about something I never said made up by the likes of Bart. He is just trying to take advantage of this to dredge up some old bone he has about getting caught in a lye. I'm explaining this to you so before you go jump in with someone give it some thought. Some of that may pre-date your time on the Campfire but if Bart is going to be your ally its fair to say we will never get along. That's your choice but it's not to late to pull back to a reasonable place and still be cordial. I really suggest that you consider putting the shovel down and stop digging. That's friendly advice.

Now in regards to the offer you made me you said you were putting together a cookbook. I do think its fair to say I made the ASSumption you were going to publish it. So I see a bit of a missunderstanding there but no lies. You did say you wanted my game recipes for a cook book and the offer you made in exchange was your recipe that I could "impress my friends with." That was rather bold don't you think?

So there you have it. Do you want to get the pooper scooper out and put the dog doo where it belongs and move on or do you want to continue this childish crap you started earlier by making up a false quote and now name calling? That was taking things a bit far on your side as well don't you think? Now we can shake hands and let it go or do you really want to continue this? I apolagize if you felt I was being unduly harsh on you prior to this. The choice is yours counsler. Make a wise one.

I need an eye exam. I thought all this was about How would you handle these A-bolts?




<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

LMAO I'll pitch in for a new set of specs! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I see you have a lot of posts. If you get to mine, I live in Barrington, RI. When my family came here from Italy four generations ago, it was to find work and my Great grandfather and grandfather worked at the Barrington brickyard shoveling coal for the ovens. Barrinton was just voted the sixth best place in the US to live by some magazine. Our property taxes have gone up so fast that most of the natives have left. I am surrounded by doctors, a pharmacist,, a CEO of a local company... They leave their dogs outside to bark, park their cars on the street, they make all the noise they want... Since I've been here, the two houses next to me have had five families each go through them. I've been trying to deal with it. I think of moving all the time but my whole family is here. You are not alone. Good luck.

stetson,

Bart made a comment about you saying something from the safety of your computer then editing it out I ASSumed you made a silly threat of some kind...may have ASSumed wrong.

You keep saying I keep digging myself deeper....more of your passive aggressive behavior. Classic behavior of the passive aggressive to ignore the obvious and keep parroting something until the believe everybody believes it though they can see different. I have been contrite since being called on the carpet for my attitide and behavior, yet you continue to berate me. Frankly here's how I feel about it. Had someone said something, or written me a note, even one that was harsh, I would have gotten the message, apologized, and corrected my actions. Someone that choose to take the pussy way out and put dog crap in my drive anonymously...I will stop, I get the message, but I wouldn't dream of apoligizing... and a part of me...a small part....is kind of glad that a wimpy little pissant person like that got a little crap in their yard from my dog. Something tells me that they conduct their entire lives being offended at all manner of minor issues and never having the balls to say something but anonymously dealing with it so they don't have to confront people with their chickenshittedness. Yeah, honestly I think getting way offended over a dog crapping in your yard to the point of shooting dogs, poisening dogs, or purposely saving dog crap to place in another's yard is chicken [bleep]. Its ok that they don't like their yard soiled...I do get that, and will respect that in the future. The reaction is what got me. However I also admitted that my reaction was due to me not being too offended about such things, and not getting others feelings being so over the top compared to mine. I will be more conscience of that in the future... as I have already stated...several times. I have gotten some emails in support of me...not supporting me letting my dog run loose but in the way some responded here as being rather harsh, and no I wont give names as they sent them privately and I suppose they mean to stay that way.

As I have already said..some even took harsh shots at me...do you see me arguing with them? No, its your continued completely over the top, bullshit, chickenshitedness, ignorant lawyer bashing, lies, half truths, namecalling, cherry picking quotes, passive aggressive attempts at gathering the support of others to put me down that pisses me off. I see others that agree I was in the wrong....I see nobody supporting your continued bullshit lies, namecalling, and barbs. This is what those of us in the legal profession call "a clue".

Making allies with Bart? I have nothing against Bart, nor for him, other that most here seem to like him pretty well and I respect his outdoor experiences. He said his bit about the original issue...it was negative towards my original attitude, and he left it alone at that...do you see me arguing with him, did you see me call him names, call him passive aggressive? Ditto Steelhead, and a couple of others. Again..."clues". And your ASSumption that I am putting together a cookbook...like the rest of the cooking world...but that because Im a lawyer I was asking you to share yours with me for my own personal financial gain....this too should be a "clue" for all the rest here about how you think! You have serious issues with paranoia, passive aggression, and anger managment I believe. You're so over the top opinionated that even in the cooking and recipes forum you are compelled to argue politics about what kind of ketchup I use in a recipe! Geez...the hardest thing for me to swallow is the likes of you continuing to tell me to grow up! I make mistakes, I occasionally offend, though most often unintentionally, and will be apologetic and contrite when called on it in a reasonable manner...but even the offended or wronged can cross the line too! (I bet you have been on both sides of that on more than one occassion!) Get off your high horse, preferably when you reach a hitching post in front of a psychiatrist's office, then get a life!

For those few like you that believe that ANY reaction to something as benign, thought admittedly wrong, as letting my dog run loose is acceptable...I only hope you take your medicine, whatever medicine the offended see fit to dispense, like you expect me to...even when you might have been the offender unintentionally, or think others feelings are chickenshit.

Ayuh.

Would someone please put this horse out of its misery.

For those that don't like HOA's or the like move out to the country.When I built my house two of the criteria were:
1 must be able to pee off porch 24/7

2 must be able to shoot guns off same porch 24/7

I know this maybe not a viable option to all but it sure made life easy.

very passive aggresive response!

I understand how you could have made that error...nobody seems to like Brownings here<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I'm only on page 2 of 7+, forgive me if I am repeating something that someone has already said.

IMHO, if you are wrong, you need to apologize. Whether the person you're apologizing to is a jerk or has done stuff he needs to apologize for or whatever else -- is all irrelevent. If you are in the wrong, you need to apologize. Idiotic behavior on the other guy's part does not cancel out your obligation to apologize.

We could all spend our entire lives being angry because others don't do things the way we think they should. It's precious time and energy wasted. How does the serenity prayer go? "God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference."

The other guy's personality/way of dealing with things is his problem. The only thing you have control over is how you respond. Apologize for what your dog did. I like Barak's idea of the plate of cookies. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

B'sW

Mrs B's post reminded me of a great line I heard:

"I refuse to let someone elses problem ruin my day"

I'm not saying that I always remember that when it would be helpful to though...

He usually does his business in our yard, but I know he does it elsewhere too. Personally I don't care about a pile of dog mess in my yard...it gets taken care of with the next mowing, or a shovel if its in the way.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, I think the guy handled that one right. I mean if you let your dog crap on somebodys lawn, why does it irk you when you find it in your driveway?

I think I would figure any guy who doesn't have a problem turning his pooch out to do his buisnees where ever, would probablly think it chickenshit to complain about it.

I once saw a guy walking his dog on a leash, his dog stopped, & the guy just stood there sipping his coffee while his dog crapped right in the middle of the sidewalk, then they strode off.

I figure a guy doesn't watch where his dog craps, I would throw it right back on their property, no words spoken...I shouldn't have to go knock on their door and ask them to do me the favor of not letting their dog crap on my lawn...ever step in a pile you didn't see while mowing your lawn? Oh ya, would have handled it the same way, gonna rile me up by letting that go on, expect to get riled in return...nothing personel, just a sore subject.

Looks like you won't have any teachers living there... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Of course, on a teacher's salary, they probably can't afford to live there! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

B'sW

I've listended to your rants and psycho babble. Not even that's an origional thought of yours you took it from another poster. You altered one of my posts here and quoted me on something that I never even said. What do you call that?
Honesty ?
Integrity?
Or do they have a more appropriate legal name for falsifying what another person says counsler? Now That's a [bleep] Chicken shi* post!
You keep squalking about where I lied. WTF? Show me where I lied!
First you completely denied contacting me about the cook book. Then you admitted contacting me and even that you are making a cook book. Just not publishing one. Ayuh!
You contacted me asking for all my game recipes for a cook book YOU are putting together and in exchange I would get the privlidge of you sending me a single recipe you started to finish so I could use it " To impress my friends!". That's a little narcisstic don't you think Dr. Freud?
Now who is the damned liar?
Your as dishonest as they come.
You said I made threats you little drama queen. That's another lie of yours.
I don't give a crap about your dog doo problems. You act like this after someone gives you an opportunity to put a peacefull end to your ranting tyrade and you seriously wonder why your neighbors left a bag if chit in your driveway instead of talking to you?
I'll bet you even put on your CV that you take crticism well!

6 pages on dog plop?

Must be a slow day.

Change your settings...I've only got three pages!

And so HG can understand:
hane yor ettng i" oly gt thre paes

Thats because you need rubber gloves and KY jelly for either topic.

Now that was funny!
Thnx Ironbender (Mike Tyson) for the chuckle this am.

I have no idea about Blaines situation but I think the bit about not being able to work at home is being taken a bit out of context. At least it would be in the HOAs we have lived in. We have covenants against running a home buisiness. Not quite the same as doing work at home and we live in a very nice sub with several teachers including one couple that both teach. The idea is not to have someone running a wharehouse out of their home with trucks in and out or trying to use the home as a working office. Nearly everyone "works" on a computer today.

Ya still don't get it do you? You wonder, with your over inflated ego, why someone wouldn't confront you face to face in a situation like this. Said person already has you figured out as an a$$hole and most likely doesn't want to escalate the situation further.

Had a guy do something incredibly stupid once. Then he had the stones to tell me not to touch him, he was an attorney. BIG MISTAKE! Did you know lawyers can fly?

Where you lied? See quote above. I denied contacting you and asking you to give me all your recipes in exchange for one of mine so that I could use all your hard work for my profit and publish a cookbook. Now you say you assumed that part about me publishing a cookbook, but you previousl said it was so...Who lied? You! Why did I deny that? Because it was an untrue statement. You took a typical email conversation about cooking and recipes and are trying to make me look bad by adding things that are untrue. Thats a lie, and that is what I denied. I don't deny having a PM conversation that included possibly exchaning recipes. If I used the phrase "impress your friends" (that seems to really be stuck in your gullet for some reason) I guess I have to take your word on that (though since you seem to be uable to tell truth from fiction I don't know why I should) as I certainly don't recall it, and was likely written tounge in cheek if written at all.

Edited to add: Oh by the way, my emails tell me enough to know how popular you are here.

Thats mighty slick. You keep slipping that BS in their about for profit. Like I said already you asked for the game recipes to put in a cook book you are working on and in point of fact you already conceeded (several times) that you PM'd me about the recipes and that you are putting together a cook book. Now you claim you are making the book for personal use. As they say, I'll leave you to your proofs on that one.
How about the false post you made quoting me?
I guesss you choose to overlook that one along with your sniveling bit about being threatened.
Based on your behavior here I'm damn glad I choose to ignore your PM's and not respond.
Looks like from the responses here in the open your lacking much sympathy. So your whole bit about lies, threats, etc is based on me saying that the cook book was for profit and your claim is that its for personal use. YEAAAAH. Lets see how many jump up and say they think your book is for personal use. Shall we?
Or are your secret admirers just shy? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

This is what I call a damned lie 280. How about you. You got some mouth piece excuse for this?

Heres another one of your lies. Or did you forget this one?

So here you admidt the cookbook. I especially like your bold faced lie here about being threatened. I'm still waiting to see the threats I made. Come on counselor. Lets see if you can put up as mutch as you can talk. I just hope your not trying to bill someone for all the time you've wasted in the last two days talking about Your own dog crap that was returned to you. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Kinda looks like your fantasy friends are a wee bit shy! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Lott,

Over the last 22 years I have lived in/owned 5 houses, and lived in/rented 4 others. I even lived on base once and rented a house in Japan. I have lived in neighborhoods ranging from lower middle class to upper middle class.

I never had any problems with any neighbors in any of these widely varied neighborhoods. Contrast that with how I have owned ONE house in an HOA (my current house we closed on in Nov 2005), and I have already had problems with the HOA as I outlined before in a earlier post in this thread.

I am hardly alone in having problems with HOAs. They have too much power to control people's lives. While they may have good intentions, they all become corrupt--as too much power ALWAYS does to any of us.

I would much rather risk having a bad neighbor than having a bad HOA. If I have a bad neighbor, I can reason with him, argue with him, and take legal action if I need to. Most importantly, the bad neighbor cannot make me do anything I don't want to do. An HOA can make me do lots of things I don't want to do. They can force me to spend money to I don't want to spend. They can unreasonably restrict my activities. My only recourse with an HOA is hoping for the good graces of the board. If it happens to be a bad board, which WILL eventually happen, I am SOL.

At least freedom loving people are waking up to this and states are starting to pass legislation to address these widespread abuses and concerns. Last year AZ passed a law stating that homeowners can recall a board member, and that HOAs cannot place a lien on your house for a fine unless they go to court first. This whole HOA thing is about to explode, and it needs to.

Now please wxcuse me while I go finish swapping out the lift kit on my truck in my own garage in the AZ heat with the door closed; so I don't offend any of the tender, sensitive, girly-men in my neighborhood whose head's would explode if the actually saw me working on my truck..................

It is entertaining though! How grown people can get into a pissing match about dog poop is priceless.....

well, this is a sore spot for me, I maintain my lawn, have a weed service and work hard to keep the place looking nice. i have a dog, she does her business in the fenced back yard. my nieghbors however think it is fine to walk their dogs and let them do their business in my front yard, as far as their leash will let them. they think nothing of it and go about their business. I have not personally seen them do it but the evidence is there. my three sons play in the front yard and there is no excuse for this rude behavior. I occasionally rake the poop into the road so the dog walkers can get the idea. I thought about posting a sign but the HOA does not allow that. allowing you dog to deficate in someone elses yard, and not clean up, is simpy rude behavior.

Please don�t move to the country, I shoot at least four dogs a year that belong to yuppie wannabe country scumbags. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Redneck Yahoo <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Not a good idea to let dogs run loose. I got bit trying to restrain a friend's dog that got his leg essentially broken off by a van that ran him over. Bad for me, bad for owner, bad for dog.

On a more amusing note, this guy put an old gps on his dog and let 'er rip. Then mapped it on Google Earth:

He was an IFR dog. (I Follow Roads) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Wow, even w/ three legs that dog can get around.

Yeah, ol' tripod.... No, I meant it was a different dog, different guy. Wanna bet those cusps are where he left his marks? He does seem to stick to the road.

Before I figured out how to hotwire my yard, mine made a beeline to a neighbor's chicken coop. Second time, a beeline to another neighbor's rabbit hutch. Third time, a different neighbor's rabbit hutch. I'm real lucky they were not shot. I finally learned how to confine these yayhoo huskies without using a stakeout chain.

reminds me of a song "Im a three legged man bein' chased cross country by a one legged fool". (song is about a guy that gets caught with another one legged man's girlfriend...pretty funny)

The way he follows that road, bet there are a lot of other dogs following that same route, he, he, he.

And that would definitely qualify as Olympic Pissing Contest!

This has been long overdue, so here it is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well damn, seven pages on HOA's and dog poop while I was gone <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I got dogs that run after my bike and, like dogs, will stop and go whenever the urge takes 'em. I will go far out of my way to remove it if it is anywhere, public or private, where someone else (like some kid) is likely to step on it.

There are very good cheap disposable plastic mitts available now with a long, loose "wrist". ya grab the poop and pull the wrist down and around the poop and twist it closed.. voila!... dog crap efficiently removed and trashable.

A disposable drink cup also makes a handy receptacle (such can commonly be had laying around as trash or grabbed out of a trash receptacle). Use the plastic lid to sweep the poop into the styrofoam or plastic cup.

Plastic bottled water or plastic soda bottles. Pull out yer knife and cut it in half, use one half to scoop the poop into the other half. With practice ya get amazingly quick at this.

Them peeing in public doesn't bother me, wont kill the grass unless its regular.

HOA's... heck LOTS of folks in my neighborhood fix cars on their lawns/driveways, and a couple have RV's/boats in their driveways, more power to 'em. One of my two cats was likely killed by the neighbor's pit bull, stuff like that happens to cats. I like my dogs too much to willingly let 'em free range, plus most of my neighbors have little kids.

Loose dogs pretty regular in our neighborhood, often good natured/comical ones. Just when ya get to recognising them they disappear, likely the dogcatcher, and owners around here rarely have the funds and/or the inclination to bail 'em out. Often they just get another dog some time later.

Little kids play in the streets, and folks generally stay out of each other's business. The drug dealer/gang types at the end of my street go out of their way to control their pits when I'm running my dogs past, which is appreciated.

Mostly, my house is just a cheap place we live, I could get back what we paid for it pretty quick, but I wouldn't call it an investment. I do like the genial chaos in our neighborhhod though.

Gated communities? "Exclusive" communities? "Cut your grass or we'll take the house" HOA's? Good Lord, how have humans sunk to such a miserable state of existence?

Birdwatcher

By living in a society where people are no longer required to use personal restraint and maintain moral standards. When I was growing up, no one needed an HOA to tell you to mow your grass, keep your dog's poop put of your neighbor's yard, and not run your open exhaust race car at midnight in front of your house.

Because the libs have done a great job driving out all those "opressive" moral standards that told us how to behave, people don't know what to do anymore. As such, the libs have responded by making sure they are rules for everything nowadays.

Blaine, I don't know how you followed the dots to your conclusion. You think bad neighbors are something new? Every war and skirmish I can think of was started because of some difference of culture, moral standard or any disagreement you can name. In another culture your moral standard might get you into a fight. No one is forcing anyone to buy or rent in a neighborhood with a HOA. Granted HOA's can and do have people on the boards that are power hungry. Personally, I don't live in a place that has a HOA. I would be willing to bet that there were neighbor disagreements even in your idealistic childhood neighborhood.pak

The dots are easy to connect. Liberals did away with the idea that moral standards told us how to behave toward each other. With the banishment of moral standards, folks no longer had guidance on how to behave. Society's behavior became hard to live with and counter-productive, so the libs stepped in and starting making rules to cover each and every situation.

Rules like: don't say mean things to people, don't prejudge someone based on their race, don't get uncontrollably angry when you drive, etc. many of these rules were codified into laws. they went even further and tried to make rules governing how we think, and that is what "Political Correctness" is.

HOAs are just another set of rules in an attempt to tell people without a moral compass how to behave toward each other.

All of this makes me want to vomit.

Just don't vomit on my lawn, okay?





















<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

My point is that it ain't a conservative/liberal issue. There are plenty of slobs on both sides. It is more an issue of personal responsibility and the standards to which one was raised. The are different levels neat and clean. The HOA just defines the standards. I wonder what an airforce base would look like if the command didn't define the base standard.pak

I completely disagree. This is entirely an issue of libs replacing the moral compass with rules for every situation.

Counties and Cities already define standards, and these governments are accountable to the people, which is just about the opposite of an HOA.

At least with an Air Force base the governing documents are the law and the leaders are accountable. Again, just about the opposite of an HOA.

You know, I am stunned that so many on this forum (though not thinking of any one person in particular), who presumably believe strongly in individual freedom, are so quick to defend HOA's and consider them "not really that bad" or "necessary evils". Sounds a lot like "reasonable gun control" to me...............

Just how does a Lib replace the morals of a conservative? I see too many conservative slobs as well as liberal slobs to place this issue into the nice neat little black and white box of Libs are responsible. The Libs are just not that influential or persuasive and if the Conservatives have given this power to the Libs who really is at fault? When you lose your temper at someone who is trying to piss you off who is the one in control, certainly not you. I think the matter of neighbors is more issue of education and economics rather than morals. The aged saying "fences make good neighbors" may have some merit here.pak

Don't worry Jim, if someone DOES vomit on your lawn, the dog will eat it <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />.

Speaking of lawns, down here in sunny San Antonio fully HALF the water used by the homes in this city each year goes to water our grass.

Hmmm... in a chronic water shortage area, half of our water goes to maintain artificial monocultures of African grasses (mostly Bermuda and St Augustine) so as to provide habitat for pestiferous South American ants (fire ants) and English birds (European starlings). This grass constantly harvested but said clippings generally wasted and sent to the big mountain of compacted trash we are collectively building as a monument to ourselves for our great-grandchildren to have (the sanitary landfill).

To replace the nutrients lost in this nonfunctional harvest, constant supplementation with chemical fertilizers is necessary along with an intensive regime of herbicides and insecticides. Such that, in a city almost totally dependent upon underground water, runoff from our own lawns is one of the major threats to our drinking supply.

If I REALLY wanted to make a case, I could point out that much of this grass culture lunacy is driven by fear of HOA's <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Throw in the fact that the biggest expenditure in most of our lives will be for a fragile concrete slab supporting an equally fragile pine board and drywall box (painted a HOA-approved color of course) surrounded by said mandatory patch of African grass and ya REALLY gotta wonder how we humans sank to this.

Well, at least all them lawn clippings in the landfill generate methane. And there's another bright side; given the way we jam those somehow always uglier types of boxes into smaller and smaller lots as we permanently bulldoze and disfigure our surroundings, the amount of mandatory African grass maintained per homeowner declines accordingly.

Birdwatcher

You've never seen the regulations for tidiness of your lot change based on a new CO or his whim?