Such as national reciprocity for CCW and a more lenient "can/suppressor" process? It might be something to consider...............

Just asking here people - realizing how this may go with so many weak kneed R's.

Not if it shows them as putting value in the stock. I don't. I've known about them for years but never wanted on as I knew they could get a person in trouble and they provided no value to my shooting experience.

Actually, I would not mind a bit if all the R's pushed similar legislation brought by another R and Trump signed it. I just don't want dems to profit from one of their owns crimes, and the slime balls usually do.

Giving them an inch has never worked.

I may not have any use whatsoever for a bump fire, and consider them pretty worthless. But I'll not say we shouldn't be able to get one.

Not on guns...
Not with Israel vs Palestinian Authority...
etc.
etc.
etc.

FC

the R's have a tendency to sit down with the D's, and find out what the D's want, and try to give it to them. the gun control things is getting legs under it if we don't get it quieted down.

You're fooling yourself if you think we can trade bump stocks for suppressors no longer being FFA registered.

The CCW issue is going to be interesting. I think quite a few people are waking up to the fact that carrying is a good idea.

they are going to be banned anyway , the
handwriting is on the wall.........


but I would make the dems bargain away something else , maybe funding for the Wall , maybe nationwide reciprocity.....

You getting the impression the left usually wins and the right usually loses?

I remember when the GCA of 68 if passed was to be the last gun control.
If 360 wolves were running free in the entire Pacific NW they would not have a problem with control beyond that.
How many lies and miss truths does it take for folks to understand.

The answer is NO! NO! NO!

yup....Fox has had several Repub congresscritters on this morning that are ready to push a bump-ban

Since when have democrats come to the bargaining table with anything republicans wanted passed?

Fug 'em.


The problem is that there are (R)'s that are ready and willing to fug us. Always have been.

Don't give an inch. Keep them focused on 'bump stocks' and fight like hell. Meanwhile we can still enjoy shooting.

No. Any bill proposed doesn't have to leave committee nor does it ever need to come to a vote.

Given the political climate, it wouldn't surprise me if it did though.

Probably pass the senate too. I doubt it'd get past the house though.

IMHO outlawing any device that modifies a semi-automatic firearm to fire automatic fire is the right move. No bargaining with the Dems, just do it. Make it clear magazine capacity and silencers are not on the table to be banned. This may pizz many of you off but I see it as a win for the Rs and the NRA in the long run. I see the bump stocks as an undefendable position in the eye of too many folks to argue it otherwise. YMMV

Dems won't "bargain" on either of one those issues, but it might be worth stating that if there won't be any discussion on those two issues, then there won't be any discussion on bump stocks either.

I agree with you.

Quoted for truth!

I would rather give them NOTHING. But if the SAME law traded giving up these items that I would never use anyway in exchange for deregulating suppressors and SBRs, I would take that in a heartbeat. They would never agree to it though.

First off, the only one of those I was ever around struck me as flea market junk at best. The guys using it weren't capable of getting off a 10 round burst without a jam or some other malfunction out of the AK variant they had it on. Might've been the gun, ammo, or nuts behind the but, but I was unimpressed (another reason I have a lot of issues with the current "facts" coming out of Vegas). I personally didn't fire it, I was to busy fondling a custom flintlock (I know, irony, right?) at the time.

I do wish someone on here with some experience would educate me on their proper use, and merits, if any besides trying to fling a lot of cheap ammo while constantly clearing jams.
I have fired an AR with a binary trigger and thought it was pretty cool. It would go through 30 rounds before quick and the guy that owned it could run pretty dang fast.
As it is, my AR with a Geissele SD-E will bring all the rain I can manage to point in one general direction.

All that said, while I think bumpfires are crap, we DO NOT NEED to give the Dems and inch. Our weak kneed R senators, however, will give them this one, and (as much as I am still glad I voted for him), I'd be surprised if Trump didn't sign it. I DON'T THINK it'll ever pass the house.

In the end, if it did look like a bumpfire ban would pass both houses and get signed, I see little point in giving anything away for free............

It's funny, they never bargain anything of theirs, only ours!

Yeah, compromise is when they get less than what they really want, but they still win.

This is the truth.

I'm surprised that bump stocks have been OK this long. I never wanted one, but I'm not prepared to give on this.

I would say "no". I think we need to insist on rephrasing the discussion. As it stands now, we're faced with "when did you stop beating your wife?" Y' can't even join the discussion right now without de facto accepting guilt. [bleep] that. I'm not automatically opposed to considering "doing something" but it has to be something that provides results, not just a "feel good" thing to placate irrational / knee-jerk reactions, and IMHO it has to not violate the 2nd and 4th amendments. We need to drag the discussion around to where the history of the outcome of gun control is accepted first, then talk about what to do with the very real problem we face. There have been two good articles posted here in the past couple days, one about the lack of impact of gun control on mass killings in the UK and Australia, another about prediction of increase in violence in the US ... and WHY. We need to look at the why. It's a hard question. It's easier to point fingers and demonize people. Maybe that's all our 30 second attention spans will handle now. If so we're [bleep] because the questions we face are hard and getting harder while our ability to contemplate intelligently them atrophies.

Tom

when i was young the designation of "republican" and "Democrat" meant something. today it means nothing and has been replaced with Politician and Serf's.
there is no difference between the parties today. they only want to stay in power and spend our money.

This shouldn't even be a conversation. It's like banning fast cars to stop drunk drivers. Makes zero difference, take a look a europe, because that's where we are headed. Bunch of sissy's taking it in the a$$. Not me, not one more inch ever.

No. Zero compromise.

Nope give them nothing.

Give them one thing and next time they want something they will say,well you worked on this thing with us so why not now.

They will never be satisfied no matter what you "give them".

Exactly.

You NEVER give up something without getting something in return. For some reason conservatives can't seem to wrap their mind around this concept!

Instead of waiting for the Dems to propose a stand alone law for this, the Republicans should have beaten them to the punch and added it to the existing suppressor deregulation bill that didn't look like it was going anywhere. That way, they would have at least gotten something in exchange. Now that they let the Dems beat them to the punch, they'll end up caving and getting nothing it return as usual.

It's like goldfish negotiating with sharks.

On an emotional stance that sounds good, but lets use some logic and explore the issue on a technical basis.

Devices that modify semi automatics already are illegal, or more correctly can only be installed by a class III manufacturer and the resulting firearm can only be sold to other class III dealers as a sample or sold to law enforcement/military that can purchase automatic and select fire weapons. The only full automatic or select fire firearms that can be legally purchased by the average Joe have to have been manufactured prior to 1986 and been registered prior to 1986. Then you need to live in an area where you are permitted to own class III, put in the paperwork, pay the $200 and wait a year.

Bumpfires do not modify a firearm to make them fully automatic. I think bumpfires and the like are stupid, but we need to be accurate in our terminology. If we don't use accurate language, we could end up with a law that would make someones trigger finger illegal because it can be used to fire a semi automatic too quickly. Sounds absurd? We're talking about government legislation or worse yet a BATF ruling.

No. Do not bargain the Second Ammendment away, no way, no how

G

NO!

No, you don't blame the tool for the actions of the user!!

Should they compromise ..... if this isn't a slam dunk for them it's because they somehow screw it up on their own with no assistance. They have all the momentum they need and then some to get them banned. Or am I missing something???

And if we're being honest how many are ACTUALLY surprised they are still legal?

Am I for them being banned, no, do I think it's going to happen? Yes, absolutely.

I could personally (from a usefulness standpoint) give zero chits if bump stocks go extinct. Would I shoot one? Damn sure, if someone else is paying for ammo, and that monstrosity wasn't attached to my AR. Looks like a silly good time, no doubt. But for practical self defense purposes? I see it of zero use. Great way to make it about impossible to use your firearm effectively if you are wounded in one arm or the other for instance. Any possible benefit is so far outweighed by the possibility of jams, inability to use due to the operating method of this thing, etc, that it would be silly to consider it. Seems for every video you see of this contraption operating as advertised, along with 100 round staggered or drum mags, there are two or more showing this thing jamming up.

I see two groups interested in this thing. One is the guys who want to go out, blow through a lot of ammo, and have a silly good time doing so. The other is the survivalist, world is ending, tacticool 300 pounder who needs a suppressive fire capability for getting ready to take the 82nd and 101'st.

As my old man used to say...."I don't need a full auto. If it comes to the day I do, things have gone very bad, and I'll use that scoped rifle to pick off the guy intent on doing me harm that has one, and use his".

Should that day ever come, full autos (and any other number of items) won't be too hard to come by on the battlefield.

I think it's a novelty. One that under the right (or wrong) circumstances can be used to bring about a good deal of harm by twisted phugs. But I don't want our side just caving on this. Make them fight for it. They'll win on this one, but make them fight for it. Giving the gun grabbers anything never works. Fight for every inch, because after they've gained a foot or two, the AR's, Minis, and 740's are gone, they'll be coming for the "sniper rifles". "Who needs to be able to shoot out to a half mile to hunt or for self defense?!!! These guns are used by snipers on our battlefields, and have no place in the hands of common civilians!" Someone intent on evil and who uses a firearm will always find a way. And the gun grabbers will always find a way to exploit the tools and the dead to further their agenda towards their end goal....total confiscation. "Mr. and Mrs. America...turn them all in".

Remember always, "compromise" or "bipartisan" to the liberals means doing it their way.

Yeah, bump stocks will get banned. The fight will be to make sure nothing else gets tacked onto the legislation.

[quote=MikeL2
Yeah, bump stocks will get banned. The fight will be to make sure nothing else gets tacked onto the legislation.[/quote]

Republicans should tack on outlawing abortion. Think how many lives could be saved every year, guaranteed. You know, for the children.

If they want their bumpstocks it should cost them dearly.

Nice.

Obama administration OK'd bump stocks. M

Only thing they did right.

Not an inch. All "feel good" legislation. kinda like "gun registration" when we all know it doesn't really exist, except maybe in Ill, CA, MA or some other sheithole

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/l...an-opens-door-action-bump-stocks-n807996

The bigger issue is how willing those on the right are willing to capitulate, and how willing many bumpstock owners would be to hand them over if they are banned.

If this issue goes without a fight, it will greatly embolden liberals that given the right catastrophe they will have no problem disarming us. Think long and hard about the cost of giving up ground.

If Trump signs a bill on any sort of gun control, he really WILL lose his base.

Most of his base are non-negotiable on gun control, period.

What a bunch of defeatists. It's all in y'alls heads. The only new gun control should be taking guns away from all registered Democrats. Republicans should be authorized to do so and get to keep what they take. But seriously, doesn't anybody here actually believe what you are saying? Professor Lott summed it up years ago, "More guns equal less crime,". Take it seriously and remove the impediments to people defending themselves. IMO even worse than blatant infringements such as the 1968 GCA and the NFA are the current courts and the way they jail people for defending themselves. Let the dentist in OKC out of jail right now and hand him some money for the time spent behind bars. Quit letting these pogues bring civil suits against good shoots and let people defend their property with lethal force. The evil in this country would decrease exponentially. We need to quit wringing our hands and take our country back from the politicians and their masters the globalists.

Great post.

Let me leave this here.

A compromise typically leaves 2 dissatisfied parties.

Not true. When one party has something, and the other party has nothing, the party to goes from having nothing and getting something is satisfied as they got something for nothing.

142 years ago General Gage sent Lt. Col. Smith and 700 British Army regulars to seize military supplies from Concorde, including powder, shot, and civilian owned artillery pieces. This started the war that made America free.

Now our 2nd Amendment core groups say that we have to ban pieces of plastic with springs inside because civilians have no use for them?

What some seem to realize is that every time they do a deal the dems get what they want and anybody else has to pony up.

One sided deals don't do it for me,might for you but not me.

Bargain, reasonable or sensible gun control, and compromise, are all spin words for suckers to swallow.

Very few people here are advocating giving up something in exchange for nothing. To me, these devices have no value and I would never want one. Even if that is true, I still wouldn't give in to legislation, unless and only if, the left was willing to give us back something of value in exchange. For me, as I have said, I would consider SBR and suppressor deregulation in exchange for these devices. Just letting them take something and getting nothing in return is submission. Getting something of value in exchange for something I don't care about is a net victory imo. If tomorrow, SBRs and suppressors were deregulated, and you could not buy a bump stock, you don't think you are better off? But yeah, if the other side isn't willing to give us something that I consider of the same or more value in exchange, I say fuggem.

Whatever you "give", even if you get something in exchange, forever makes that object subject to regulation and federal control.

If they give you SBR and suppressors in exchange, those can and will be taken back the next time Democrats get a majority in Congress. You'll end up with nothing.

Here's the opposition that you are negotiating with...

Hell no!

Once you sort through the BS there are some really good suggestions in this thread. Approach it from the standpoint we will support outlawing bump stocks. In return you support outlawing abortions which kill many more unborn children. After all children are the future of the nation!

Outlawing abortion for outlawing bumpstocks is reciprocal give and take negotiations. Up to now it's all us give and they take, you know, 50/50. I say BS, hit em where it hurts them, not us.

You give an inch ...they will take a mile ...fu gg em

Anything short of national reciprocity is throwing away a good bargaining chip.

Trump ran on making deals. Let's see him make one.

Strap yourself in - no one is willing to bargain away the 2A.

If bump stocks are going to be taking a long walk on a short bridge, the R's need to get a concession or two from the Dems. Just caving to the "issue du jour" is typical of the R's.

Reminds me.......

When the wife and I got married she told me she wanted a cat, I told her I did not want a cat in the house, so we compromised, we got a cat.

MAGA!! Do not give in.

12344mag you should run for Congress as a Republican. With those egotiating skills you will fit right in.

Guys have fought tooth and nail for custody of the cat (or dog) long after a wife has walked...



After jumping through all the T-2 NFA Class III hoops , one must be prepared to then pay the market price of such pre-June 86' FAs.

Personally, I think it’s a good idea.
The fact is, bump stocks are going to be restricted or banned, soon.
I think the republicans should;
Kill the Feinstein bill in committee.
Write their own bill combining strict “bump stock” restrictions with the hearing protecting act, CCW reciprocity and at least one more firearms related item that the Democrats will really choke on.
Then, negotiate away the last part and insist on the first three as a combined bill.
Force it to a vote and the Dems can vote however they want.
If they vote “no”, then THEY killed the bump stock bill.
If enough vote yes, then we get two things we really want, and give up one thing that most of us don’t care about.

my comments:

"compromise" means BOTH sides give up something:

Bump fire stocks for:

suppressors off the NFA, (its SAFETY equipment!)
all NFA restrictions on barrel and overall length eliminated - (senseless rules)
all state and local anti-gun laws declared null and void (just like all state and local gay marriage bans)
allow newly manufactured/imported full auto to be registered into NFA as transferable
CCW reciprocity
Any gun, ammo or accessory legal to own is legal to manufacture or import.

just a thought.....

Y’all are forgetting who the “enemy” is. It’s not Dem Congresscritters, it’s the guy down the street that votes for them.

A lot of those guys are gun owners, but not gun nuts. You dig in your heels on these silly assed gadgets as if they truly had some value and those guys don’t want to be identified with you.

And those are the guys we need with us when the Dems get back in power and attempt a serious gun grab.

The NRA made the right move..... hang the gadgets around the neck it belongs on, Obama’s BATFE.

Well, at least you discussed it!

If the LV shooter had used a shotgun, with an extended magazine, and a pink bow tied to the triggerguard, there would be an outcry to have the extended mag and the pink bow banned. The anti-gun people will seize on every chance they get to have something banned, or restricted.

Now, do I want or need a bump stock.....no. Never even thought about wanting one.

Do I want or need a suppressor......you bet I do. My ears ring all the time, and are sensitive as heck, so I think something like that would be a Godsend.

But, I'll bet a dollar to a donut, that the bill to lower the restrictions on suppressors will be dropped, and that bump stocks will be banned. Given a choice, I'd much rather have a suppressor.

IMHO, you have your answer right there...

The republicans control the house, senate, and whitehouse, explain to me why the need to bargain with the dema on anything??

Whats the legislative record so far this year, especially with significant laws?

Bingo!

Because republicans are either pissing up a rope, pissing into the wind, or pissing down their leg.

That is oddly reminiscent of my wife and her fish tank....................

Simple - because they 'wanna be "liked" and to "get along"... I.e., cave in like a cheap card table..

Rush said it best. Dems have killers instincts.. GOP only wants to survive..

With the 60 vote rule in the Senate, republicans do not control the senate. Democrats can stop anything going forward in the senate. Get rid of the 60 vote rule and re-instate it before the next senate takes over if Democrats get the majority. Republicans need re-examine their tactics. This is not a fair fight.

It's called the Reed Rule. He did it when he was majority leader. The R's prefer being the minority. That way the don't have to do anything and can complain.

I do not own an AR
I personally do not care if bump stocks are banned or not.

I do, however, care about my private rights being attacked because some wacko uses a bump stock to commit a crime.
Why should my rights be taken away because some guy uses a legally bought item to commit a crime??

This.

http://www.breitbart.com/video/2017...ion-we-didnt-say-ban-or-confiscate-them/

by IAN HANCHETT5 Oct 20173856
On Thursday’s broadcast of the Fox News Channel’s “Hannity,” NRA Executive Vice President and CEO Wayne LaPierre stated that bump stocks make semi-automatic firearms function like automatic firearms and should be looked at to see if they follow federal law, but the NRA doesn’t believe they should be banned or confiscated.

LaPierre said of a bump stock, “I mean, any look at it, it takes a semi-automatic firearm and it makes it perform like a fully automatic firearm. It makes it function like one. And, what the NRA has said is, ‘We ought to take a look at that and see if it’s in compliance with federal law, and it’s worthy of additional regulation.’ That being said, we didn’t say ban. We didn’t say confiscate.”

I'm feeling generous today so I'll try and paint the picture a little better for all the retards (including Wayne) out there.

The reason Bump Fire's and their ilk are not Class III is because they do NOT dictate the cyclic rate of a weapon. The SHOOTER dictates the cyclic rate of the weapon when using these devices. When you start down the road of stating a SHOOTER can't dictate how fast he fires a weapon you just kicked the fugking door wide open to an outright ban on semi-autos.





Clark

What he said.

The first second of the first video I heard from LV and I knew the shooter was not using a full auto weapon, I immediately knew it had to be a bump fire stock just by the cadence of the fire. Unlike most folks, I have put thousands of rounds through REAL machine guns and there is no comparison.......

It's clear from his statement that LaPierre believes these devices should be regulated........if he REALLY believed the second meant what it says, he would be lobbying to kill the National Firearms Act which is a clear infringement on the right to keep and bear arms.......

Damn straight!

of course the majority of us all agree with that. but, we also know once the original framers of the Constitution removed themselves from the scene, all was interpretation by the powers-that-be after that very moment.

it's all been subject to interpretation ever since. it means what the SCOTUS & supported by congress and the POTUS tells us it means. it's as simple as that.

the rest of you can vote and elect your representatives.

THIS is my problem with the NRA, with Congress, and even with many on the Campfire in these discussions. Any gun law is un-Constitutional. Every gun law is unlawful. NO gun law has any force of law. But nearly everyone is pretending the opposite. As long as we are in LaLa land, any horseshit is possible. When we accept the reality of the only valid gun law ever written, the debate is over. You all should be ridiculing your representatives, not asking them to somehow fight for your rights. Your rights are ever only at threat from your government.

you know that, and i know that. but, the peace officers knocking on your door at 4am might not know that. nor the prosecutor, nor the jury, nor the judge. so we're right, but all alone in our rightness. and the prisons are full of folks who claim they are innocent. and they might well be for all i know.

Well, it should be taught in every civics class and law school, as well as every law enforcement training class. The fact that it isn't, and that an intelligent, law-honoring man then has to be afraid of the ignorance of the entire system of government from lowly peace officers up through national lawmakers should be the main topic of discussion in the aftermath of every "gun crime".

But super experienced renefag50 claimed it was a belt fed M60.

LMAO.







Clark