We had 9.5 inches of snow here at the house on Wednesday and yesterday I took a short road trip and saw at least a dozen cars and trucks still stuck in the ditches. People do forget how to drive in this stuff, but that said, some cars and trucks are more prone than others to spinning out and ending up in the ditch. What did surprise me a little was the number of trucks and two Avalanche's in that mix yesterday. The whole eastern half of the country had bad snow last week and lots of the southern states don't have the big road equipment or salt/sand trucks to help with the slippery road conditions. My vote for the worst slippery condition car goes to the Pontiac Grand Prix as I've seen more of those in the ditch than any other model. My old Saab 99 was my best snow car. How do you see it?

In a 2 wheel drive vehicle, my wife's Honda Accord was great in the snow.

I see a lot of Kia Souls with their wheels in the air

I once had a Corvette that could get stuck on an icy patch with cable chains on.

My wifes stock Subaru forester is probably a better vehicle in snow than my totally factory spec 76 CJ5

The open diffs of the CJ were pathetic where the Subaru can direct power to the tires that need it much better in a millisecond!

I'll go out on a limb here and suggest that the subaru design might be as good as any factory produced consumer vehicle ever made

My wife had a Explorer, studs on all four and the all wheel drive was the best snow right we've owned. She now has a CR-V Honda all wheel drive that doing good! I don't think it will do as good as the Explorer because of weight! Front wheel drive with studs work well, my daughter's Toyota Camry gets around real well! I think is more the driver that the automobile that puts cars in the ditch!

On crappy roads my Subaru Crosstrek will run circles around my full-size pickups all day long.

My Nissan 350-Z is worthless even when it's sleeting which it's doing today.

The one vehicle I've tried really hard to buy but never owned was a mid 2000's AWD Astro Van. They have a really good reputation in bad weather.

Agreed for the most part. Had AWD Saturn Vue and Chevy Equinox AWD as company provided work vehicles and they both sucked. Had a '15 Subaru Legacy that was capable, but not comfortable. Had several FWD Dodge mini-vans that w/Blizzaks were very capable and secure. Current diesel Super Duty will claw through some mighty deep and hard-packed snow but the light rear-end and very heavy motor out from make it less secure-feeling than something that's balanced better and true AWD. Current AWD Nissan Murano seems secure and capable even though currently sans Blizzaks but we're just barely into winter, I'll know more in 3-4Mo.

The consensus of many experts (and my experience concurs) is that the Subaru AWD system is unbeatable for snow. My new Forester is so far no different. It's supposed to be even better going up and down tough grades with it's X Mode (which my old Outback did not have.) I had a front wheel drive Toyota Tercel in my early days that was pretty good in the stuff too.

i've had a couple of subarus and a couple of toyota rav 4s both great in snow. i prefer the rav 4 i agree with the above statement on full size pick ups except in really deep snow.

Ed

Subaru's are pretty hard to beat in the snow. That said, my wife drives an AWD Ford Edge and it does well in the snow, even without dedicated snow tires. With real snow tires I suspect it would be fantastic. On the down side, the Edge gets horrible fuel milage (20-22mpg) and the PTU (Power Takeoff Unit, basically the transfer case) has failed every 20,000 miles, we've replaced it 3 times (under warranty, thankfully).

I’m thankful we don’t have that cshit here, it’s just 150 degrees in the summer for three months

The 5-speed manual Forester with studs that my wife drove around when we lived in Anchorage was quite noteworthy. Subaru AWD is different for manual vs auto trans - the manual is full mechanical (no brains no headaches, power when you want it) but the auto wants to do too much for you, to the point of pulling all power when you're trying to cross a busy intersection and it senses enough slippage...screw that. You couldn't pay me to drive an auto Subaru.

I drove a '96 buick roadmaster wagon around anchorage and it was no big deal, except the abs sometimes let the car creep when coming to a stop at slick intersections...had to put it in 2 or N. Too much push at idle from the RWD.

Any vehicle with low COG, even weight distribution and good winter tires should work well. I'm a big fan of a manual trans for snow/ice, for positive engine braking. Getting around Anch in my old crewcab ford 5-speed 4x4 on all terrain tires was easy as a downshift slowed you down very effectively and under control.

It was slick a couple weeks ago when I dropped into Anch for work - the rental AWD Toyota sienna minivan went along very well, on all-season bridgestones. Icy everywhere. I was pretty impressed.

Have an Outback (2016) that's a lot better than either my 77 Chevy Step-side or my Dodge Ram 3500 LB 4 WDs.

^^^^^ My first subaru was a 5 speed Impreza which was heads and tails better in snow then my 2003 outback. My 2006 Tacoma 4x4 6 speed manual might be the best snow vehicle I have owned.

My dad showed me how to drive a pick up through snow a long time ago. Fit it with studded snow tires and fill the bed of the truck up with something heavy. He preferred concrete blocks because they were always around.

He used to do that with his '56 GMC step side. Decades later I had the same success in long bed Toyota and several 5 gallon buckets of wheel weights secured in the bed.

A standard 2WD pick up fitted with studded snow tires with about 700lbs of weight in the bed is one of the better snow driving vehicles there is.

I've had 4WD suvs or trucks since '82, and lived in places like northern NY snow belt, Colorado, Alaska, and some more southerly locations like MD, AL, TN, and VA, so observations limited. I also skied so drove into snowy conditions on purpose. Have never used dedicated winter tires, just whatever all season or all terrain tires I'm was running at the time.
So my list:

Worst on snow or packed snow were '86 and '89 Toyota 4Runners. Real light rear end and stiff suspensions like compact pickups. Had to be in 4WD in snow and still had to be careful of rear end trying to pass.

Best ever on snow/packed snow was a '95 Land Rover Discovery. Good all terrain radials, full time 4wd, near 50/50 weight distribution, good coil spring suspension, outstanding traction. Lots of other problems with that truck, but great traction.

Pretty good was my '82 S10 Blazer. Decent tires, good suspension, decent weight distribution, limited power so harder to get in trouble.

My 2000 Dodge Durango was fairly good, but suspension stiffness could start you bouncing if on rutted snowy roads.

My 2005 and 2013 Tundras are good when running in 4WD, but light assed if only in 2wd. Both have been double cabs, the longer wheelbase and a little more weight behind the driver helps. I don't add a lot of weight in the back, but usually have some stuff in the bed. That said, I'm using some new tires this year that look real good in snow so far - Continental Terraincontact A/Ts. I think they will improve snow/packed snow performance noticeably over the oem michelins.

Knowing your limitations helps. Growing up in the upper midwest helped me figure that out with minimal sheet metal bendage

1" of snow here today and coming home and a large mercedes spun out in front of me and straddled the curb bending it's right rear wheel in at 45 degree angle. Fun and games when it snows here.

The 2011 AWD BMW 5 series and the 08 AWD 4Runner I have now are as good on snow as anything I've owned. The edge goes to the BMW though simply because of the traction control that controls pretty much everything to make it do what I want. Helps that I keep decent rubber on both. You see a lot of bald tires around here.

My sister once owned a Hyundai Elantra. She said it was the worst handling car in snow or ice that she had ever driven. She drives a RAV4 now, much better.

The wives outback is way better than my 4x4 pickup.

My neighbor has one of those that he swears by.
Lot Subaru's around here too. Everybody from the hipsters across the river in WA to the farmers/ranchers wives drives em.

My Wifes 2013 Grand Cherokee Limited is the best I have Driven in the show and Ice.....The Thing is just planted and goes were you turn the wheel....Also has 60K miles and never Been in the shop...Just put on its First set of Tires Got 59K out of the Original Goodyears....Just an all around solid vehicle...Sill looks Brand New.

A friend that used to run hounds all winter long in Montana used to swear by solid axle Chevy Suburbans.

In general,

4WD>FWD>RWD

longer, wider, lower helps

Tires are a big consideration.


The biggest factor, IMO, is way too many people drive way too fast for conditions.

Wife had a front wheel drive VW Rabbit diesel pickup. Pulled out several full sized rigs with that little truck.

Dual wheel pickups are a PIA in snow.

Got a Honda CRV with AWD and a bit more ground clearance than your average passenger car that is very good in the snow even with the not so great all season radials on it. We had a lot more snow than usual last year and I was running around where other folks were stuck solid. But you still have to take it easy and not get too rambunctious or try to see just how much snow you can plow through.

this. a 4x4 suburban on good tires is a rock star in the snow.

we have an newer outback and an older forester. they are hands down the best 4x4 i have ever had in the snow. better than my jeeps, 4x4 trucks or FWD cars. as long as 1 wheel is on the ground it has traction. i have run mine in 18"+ of snow on trails and they just plow on through. my new one has traction control though and it will kill you in deep snow. switch off TCS and it will go like a fuggen tank. the TCS is more for slush and wet road traction rather than deep snow. xmode is cool as well for going downhill on bad roads and offroading in mud or shallow snow.

by far the worst in the snow was a nissan 2wd truck i had. that little fugger would switch ends in a heart beat.

1986 Jeep Grand Wagoneer. A close second is my 2002 Suburban. Worst was a 1980 F-150 2 wheel drive we had at work. Got stuck on flat ice. Put it it neutral and pushed out by hand by myself but could not drive it out

The best I've driven in the snow all belonged to my Mom, going back to a granny gear equipped '79 Bronco. She's on her third Outback now. All work even better than the old suv in anything shot of three foot drifts.The Silverado with a manual and A/T's I own handles those with aplomb, though. The worst winter car I've ever driven is also the only car I've ever totalled-a Merkur xr4ti.

There it is.

Spend enough time driving in snow and ice and you learn they all have their strengths and weaknesses. If I need to push through bumper deep snow I'll take a 4WD pickup with the right tires, if I need to pick my way up a slippery grade through spun out and stuck traffic I'll take a Jeep Wrangler. If I want to be pushed out of a ditch I'll take a Subaru Forrester and wait for the Gay team to show up.

Funny how the stereotype of Subaru's for the gay community in the USA are a standard

The Forester in South Africa comes in the form of a Pickup truck. It's stereotype is that of one of the favorites of Professional hunters and farm workers.

If the stereotypes are removed from both and it's judged simply on its merit, I doubt that anything made for consumers off the factory floor is any better. Only those without experience using one could judge it poorly. Once you have used one in pretty bad conditions.. You will be a believer in the engineering that makes them so good.

I broke down and bought studs for my ram 3500 this year. Man does it seem awesome. A Subaru with studs is probably the best if the snow isn't too deep. In deep snow a pickup with tall tires and corks. Any rear wheel drive with performance tires is going to be awful.

Again, +1.

That said, like the OP said a Saab 99/900 (early gen) with some hakkapeliitta's is about as unstoppable a car as you'll find. FWD, 60/40 wt distrib, about 3900lbs, low-slung on big tires , and crash worthy/stout as fug. Miss mine dearly, but they "don't make'em like that any more."

Had an audi FWD in Bavaria, it was good but it wasn't the saab. Ditto with the S4 with traction this/that and blizzacks I got next; also good, but not the saab. That fugger was special

And 4x4, as was said, to be helpful it needs good wt distribution, and well, weight. Off road is one thing, but no fan of driving pickups in ice/snow on pavement.

Any mustang I've ever driven will get out from under you in a hurry on slick roads, including the one I own now. It spends winters in the garage.

I had a '79 VW Rabbit that was great in the snow. I put a set of Sears studded snow tires on it and It would go just about anywhere you pointed it. And this (former) 22 year old would point it toward some pretty hairy stuff! My '83 Subaru GL wagon and '87 (?) Jeep Comanche pickup were great off the beaten path too. All 3 of these were 4 cylinder/4 speed. I think there's something to be said for not too much power.

The worst snow cars I had were my first two. A '70 Camaro Rally Sport and a '73 Ford Gran Torino Sport (400 c.i.). It probably had something to do with the fact that 18 year olds don't actually know everything.

In my experience it has more to do with the driver with their head up their ass than the vehicle. Nothing helps more than slowing down. I drove a 1984 Mustang GT convertible through several winters going to college in Marquette Michigan without issue due to good tires,weight in the trunk and not driving like a moron. You can have the highest rated all wheel drive wonder car out there. But if it has [bleep] tires or if you drive like an idiot you're bound to spend a lot of time in the ditch.

I have been stuck in snow and in the ditch on ice as many times as most people.


When my brother and I were both in our early 20's we bought a 1977 Olds Toronado. Big old 2 door coupe that happened to be front wheel drive. Had a big block in it as well.


Drove it all over MT and north ID.

Awesome highway drift buster.

Best in Snow was a Honda CRV - had several 4wds and nothing came close to it.

Worst was the KIA Soul. We didn't even drive it in rain

1993 Ford F-250 4x4.

7.3 IDI Turbo with a 5 speed.


1993 Tele-Dec bale bed.


Snow eating fool.

Same pickup with a 460 and an auto.......stuck all the time.


I took the bed off the 460 and put it on the diesel.

Suburban with good tires is hard to beat.

Here's how my 89 year old uncle plows his driveway. He might be a redneck...



The best part? It's a lease.

Honda CR-V with studded tires.

It's mostly about the tires.......and the drivers.........

The most fun I've ever had on hard packed snow was in the Audi TT AWD with Pirelli snow tires I bought for my ex. It was like glue on the ice and snow. Almost impossible to make it break traction. Of course, it would high center if two kids had a snowball fights.... but on ice..... it would flat out GO.

Second best was the Honda CR-V. Third was the Dodge Cummins. A lot of fun pulling people out of ditches without ever hitting the throttle. My son and I set a record of 7 vehicles in 40 miles, all under an hour and a half. I'd stop the truck, he'd jump out with the tow strap, and by the time I'd have the truck lined up, he'd have the car hooked and we'd walk them out.

In the end though, most of the winter driving is not about getting going, but about getting stopped. I drive around in a 2wd Tacoma all winter (on Blizzaks), and unless it gets totally nuts bad out there, I go anywhere a 4wd pickup goes. But I don't slide off the road when I brake.

Seriously?!!!! That's hilarious!

ABSOLUTE WORST.............AMC GREMLIN

That is my experience. Keep one in north Idaho along with a 4WD F150. The latter truly pales, even with weight in the bed, compared to the 'burb.

As long as the factory supplied tires aren't on it. My gal's 2016 Forester had the worse (and arguably the most dangerous) tires on slick roads I've ever driven--including bald tires........

Amen. It is amazing where a 2x4 PU will go with excellent winter tires and weight. But I still keep a set of chains behind the seat for nights like this. It looks like I might have to drive home from work at 5:00 AM in several inches of fresh snow.

But with the k5 Blazer, the 99 S Blazer, the 03 Sub Legacy, or Momma's 05 Durango, I never needed chains. I really could not give any of them an edge. They all handled snow well, dependent upon tires.

Our Toyota Highlander is pretty good in the snow and ice, however I saw a demo comparing a 2016 Honda Pilot
to a Highlander. In snow and ice hill climbing the Honda pilot would beat the Highlander. Consensus was
the Honda Pilot had a better computer program for locking and unlocking the wheels that were spinning or
stuck. In other words the Pilot would pull a bad hill while the Highlander would not. Studs can,t be beat
on ice covered roads.

Why do you guys think that the Suburban seems so much better than a pickup? Is it the weight distribution?

Also, are the Honda CRV accolades only for the all-wheel drive version?

Yes, the Suburban is better balanced than a pickup. Put weight in a pickup and then it's a wash.

Actually, take a old fashioned SWB, conventional cab pickup with the axles closer together, put weight in the back and it'll beat out our long azz wheelbase yuppie trucks--just be careful not to unintentionally swap ends.........

FWD is okay if you never get off the pavement. But they totally suck on any kind of sidehill. My 90 Century could not make it out to the pavement for trying to drive off into the canal on the downhill side of the road when it got snow covered. I would much rather have the ass end slipping toward the downhill side of the road than the front end.

Here is the best snow vehicle, my 4WD Nissan, only now I have studded snow tires on it.
So good in ice and snow you can't have any fun sliding around, it grips like nothing else.

I agree. We had a Forester that tried its damndest to kill me on a slippery road. If the traction control wasn't disabled the bastard would just creep out into an intersection trying to figure out which wheels should get power. One real close call of that and I sold it next day to a Lesbian. That thing scared the hell out of me, and I never got used to the fuel fill on the wrong side. Built like a pop can. Used more oil than a Deere 70. Tires were wearing badly at 20k. I don't miss it. Replaced it with a Sequoia, 10x the vehicle, wife loves it. Me and that Forester never got along, other people I've talked to love theirs.

Had a few different variations of Izusu Troopers that would regularly track better and go farther than my brother's Suburbans in snow/mud on logging trails.

Worst vehicle in snow I ever owned was a 1972 MGB. My 2000 Ford Expedition 4X4 is really good on show . Don`t know of any vehicles that are good on ice.
Slowing down help.

Going back a bit further, my buddy had a Chevy Corvair. With the rear engine near the drive wheels, and the low center of gravity, it did real good as long as there wasn't more than a couple of inches of snow.

The car had low ground clearance, and there was a smooth, flat pan under the whole bottom of the car, it seemed. It only took 3 or 4 inches of snow for that pan to ride up on top of the snow and lift the rear wheels off the pavement. The car would come to a stop, with the rear wheels spinning in air.

Sort of like the turtle on the fencepost. For that reason, my vote for worst snow car goes to the Chevy Corvair.

Best snow/ice vehicle I ever owned was a 1963 Series II Land Rover, long wheel base, diesel/manual. I pulled many unfortunate motorists out of ditches with that truck - it was unstoppable. The worst vehicle I ever owned was a 1999 Jaguar XJ8, but it sure was purty (and it completely sucked in the snow and ice).

I’ll drive the skandic

Lil toytotas with blizzaks work good.

While I’ve not owned one myself, sis has one Lil Subaru’s are ba in snow

A lot of weight over the drive wheels in those tornadoes!

My old '81 Toyota Hilux with a half ton of coal in the bed and rear wheel chains was able to push through bumper-high snow one Christmas.

I didn't unload the coal until the roads improved.

I don't know what this guys on about-Gremlins worked great in WI winter weather. Just get 'em going as fast as possible, shunt them into a ditch when still near town ideally, pull the plates, and walk on home. Don't worry about the car, the plow drivers crushed them for you, just buy another POS Gremlin or Pacer for $50. It was all part of being a young guy in the upper midwest in the '80s.

Until a cop stopped you and MADE you move the tire chains to the back wheels, "because that is where the law says they have to be".

Had a couple friends of the family who drove Tornados and El Dorados back in the mid 60s through early 70s, before anyone knew what FWD was. One of them had to cross Cabbage on I84 with the chains on the back end because a State Trooper had sub human intelligence.

The best in the snow was a 1998 Nissan Pathfinder. The worst was a 2006 Ford Ranger. If a dog peed on the rear tire it would spin the tire on the wet spot. Didn't keep that one long.

Hard to beat a Subaru in the snow. Most of them have a surprising amount of ground clearance. I’m just sick of fixing mine though.

2wd pickups suck azz in anything slick. Especially compact trucks. Better have chains and some ballast if you want to get anywhere.

yea, actually I didn't know there wasn't an AWD version

I got rid of an S-10 because it would fish tail as soon as the road got wet - and I wasn't an aggressive driver. That back end was just too light. Yes I could have put weight back there but it was ridiculous.

I remember as kids we used to sit around dissing Ford or Chevy or Dodge and a big argument among us - as if 11 year old boys knew what they were talking about - was that 4WD was really 3WD because on 1 wheel in the back was spinning. I don't think we knew about posi track or limited slip being 11 years old in 1977 but I've always wondered if modern 4wd still worked that way versus AWD distributing power where/when needed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNCDaRnF-k8

This probably can't be beat.

That is why I took the OEM tires off my new 2018 Forester which I bought in October. I had read that they were not good in winter conditions, even though they were AT tires. I put on the Nokian snow tires and have been out in 2 snow storms and love them. I'd rather have a FWD car with good winter tires than an AWD vehicle with ATs or all-seasons. It's more about the tires than the cars, but an AWD SUV with good ground clearance and great winter tires will go thru just about everything so long as the driver has a clue about how to drive in winter conditions (slow down and start gentle braking early).

All you had to do is get rid of the cheap OEM tires. Of the 3 vehicles in our family (Subaru Forester, Kia Optima, Hyundai Elantra) ALL have had their OEM tires replaced within the first year (my Subaru and the Elantra were replaced within a couple months). If you had put either dedicated winter tires on that Forester or, the Nokian all-weather tires, your experience would have been quite different. I don't understand the thinking of car companies saving a few bucks by putting such crappy tires on their vehicles. I now assume whenever buying a new vehicle that the tires will be replaced very quickly after purchase. I've had a manual Outback, an auto Outback and now an auto Forester. All have been great in snow with good tires. I've never got stuck, never spun out, never had an accident due to conditions, never felt unsafe while driving any of them. Regarding that creeping, sounds like you should have taken it to the dealer. I've never experienced anything like that in any of my Subarus or those my friends drive. It is not a usual situation.

Worst car I ever owned (on snow or any road condition) was a 1973 AMC Hornet. When I owned that POS I could barely afford the cheapest budget tires that I had on it, so that had a lot to do with it, but it was just a bad car all around.

Remember the old AMC Eagle?

Used to see them a lot in PA when I was a kid and visiting.

We just sold a 2008 Outback that I drove for years and eventually handed down to my son...Pretty hard to beat for winter driving.

They might be the best snow vehicle going, but I could never overcome the stigma of being seen in a Lezbaru.

Windfall;
Good morning to you sir, I hope that the week treated you okay and this finds you well.

Having grown up in a spot on the planet where there was often snow 5 months a year - Saskatchewan - and then spending the last 33 years in BC where we usually have only one month of snow, but all the roads are either going up or down and ditches don't exist - I'd have to suggest there's snow and then there's snow, you know?

In Saskatchewan where it got cold and the roads were pool table flat, as long as you stayed between the ditches almost any heavy vehicle would work with a variety of rubber. Even off road our '80 Toyota 4x4 pickup worked great there, but was sprung a bit too stiff for the BC skidder haul roads to be great in the snow.

Currently in our yard, there's one daughter's CRV, another daughter's Cherokee, wife's Forester and the family pickup is a Dodge diesel with snow flake/mountain rated snow tires and limited slip rear diff. That's handy because when it snows, without AWD/4WD we get to stay in the yard otherwise.

Said driveway - 105 meters with an honest 24 meters of drop from the main road to the house....


The Subaru kicks everything else's butt reasonably convincingly there - well not this - but it's not a car even by Canuck standards.


It's interesting to me as a Canuck in that if I'd not have been a member of the 'Fire I would never have known about the link between Subaru and the gay community as they either didn't run those adds up here or I didn't pay any attention to them. With regard to my utilitarian transport, I'm inclined toward the same stance we took with mountain horses which was "pretty is as pretty does".

So far my good wife hasn't left me for an alternate lifestyle because of driving that Forester, but I suppose now it's another thing I can stress over.

Anyway sir, sorry for being characteristically long winded, but again to summarize, there's snow and then there's snow. If you're travelling 7% grades to get to work and those roads are more like oatmeal poured onto a glass coffee table than not, then that's what we use up here. Dittos on the good tires too of course - Firestone Winterforce are the family favorite now, but Nokian and Blizzak are good too, just a bit more money.

All the best to you and all my campfire friends this Christmas Season whether it's snowy white or not.

Dwayne

This works even on ice https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...d/Number/59593/filename/plow24hrsize.jpg

I drove from Kewaunee to Marinette WI in that blizzard. LOTS of cars in the ditch and more than one took out a highway sign. Almost all of them were SUV/4x4 types that were driving way too fast for their brakes.

I made the trip in a former cop car. The limited slip was my friend tho my tires are shot (actually replacing them today). That car with it's big ass and ability to spin the tires on both legs kept me going fine and got me through quite a bit.

A really interesting read here guys. I too didn't know about the gay/Subaru thing either though I'm not sure that sis with that Forester doesn't fit with that lifestyle, though I do see a whole lot of Subaru cars out her way in NW Montana. WI. outlawed the studded snow tires years ago because the studs ate the mortar out if the concrete. Those wide tires on a pick up look nice, but they sure have a mind of their own on slippery roads. I put those skinny 7.50-16's on that truck and it went well in a straight line in deep snow, but high, hard, narrow tires sure make ice exciting. A friend of mine put posi-traction on the front as well as the back axle of a truck and it went real well in a straight line, but he said it was like a pea on a platter on a slipper turn. Probably the reason that front wheel posi on a 4wd is never an option. Oh, someone mentioned the Mustang and the Camaro. Yep, wide Poly Glass tires, rear wheel drive and all the weight up front in the big engine and I could barely get mine out of the driveway. Headers were not good for plowing through snow either. Kids.

My wife wanted a Subaru a couple of years ago, I told her that I would never drive it out of state with California plates on it...she looked at me like I was mad...

She ended up with a Ford...with California plates.

I suspect the plates are far more offensive than the make of the vehicle...

Are you really that insecure about your masculinity? Afraid of what other people may think. What kind of a way is that to live?

Worst I ever had was a 1969 Chevelle . The Hummer H3 is quite good.

Years ago there was a private detective who lived next door, on my private road. His vehicles consisted of a Porsche 944 and some fancied-up pick-up truck. Neither vehicle had snow tires, he had performance tires on both. The first couple times when we heard him spin his wheels, my other neighbor and I would go out at all hours of the day and night and push him. I repeatedly told him that he needs to get good snow tires if he was going to make it thru the winter on our road. He never listened. After a while we stopped going out to help him and we just put up with him racing his engine and spinning his wheels for what seemed like forever. One winter was enough for him and he was gone the following year. He couldn't find his butt with both hands but he sure drove some macho machines.

My wife, daughter and I all drive Outbacks. I have Blizzacks on mine and it is pretty impressive. I carry chains, come along, and a shovel and never had to use them. I like the AWD better than my 4wd tundra. I kinda want to trade on a 4runner, but it is hard to cash in the suby.

Then the law is a ass!

Chains on the rear of a FWD tank sounds a little like an anchor.

Dwayne-

Holiday greetings to you and yours.

That little Bolens ain't a car, but I bet it would get Bristoe to the Likka Stoe in a blizzard!

Check out this video. 2014 Subaru Forester Vs Honda CRV, Ford Escape, Mazda CX-5, and Toyota RAV4.

Link - USAC wet ramp test

Impressive.

ironbender;
Good afternoon sir and please allow me to return holiday greetings to you and yours!

The photo of the little diesel is a couple years old and it's now equipped with a 12" LED light bar up front and 4 LED lights on the back - it's like I've got 35 year old eyes again ironbender!

I should think that so equipped it would get our esteemed colleague from Kentucky there AND back in any storm. It's got a rear diff lock too on the little rascal...

All the best to you and your fine family this Christmas sir.

Dwayne

As good as the Sub-a-loos are, when I lived in Upstate NY, I saw more of them in the ditch than everything else combined. Overconfident drivers, you think?!

IIRC, we had the highest snowfall totals of any city in the US at that time (mid 2000's). AWD is great for climbing, and getting started, but we're all on the same footing when it comes to turning and stopping. Contact patch, anyone one? Along with weight distribution.

Here in the Portlandia, we've got a strange mix of cold dry air mixing with warm wet air. It screws with people from the colder regions of the US like the Northeast and Midwest where it's just straight up cold.

I see Subarus going sidways on flat ground. And was hit by a Subaru last year.

Also saw a bunch of 4x4 trucks abandoned in last year's storm.

Had a Ford Focus back in the day, it was great in the snow. Same with Rangers and Tacomas. Will see how the 4Runner does, probably pretty well too

I've lived in Upstate and the North Country of NY all my life (now 61) andI haven't observed that at all. The most common type of vehicle that I see in the ditch are pick-up trucks; 4 wheel drive, no weight in the back end, and big tires that they think are good in the snow. AWD can get you going (and as seen in the linked demo above, Subaru does have the best system) but it's tires that keep you on the road and stop you. That is why tire selection is KEY to safe winter driving.

To me, it didn't look like they all had the same tires, so I'd consider it an invalid test.

They should have all had either the same tires or tested with OEM tires as the consumer would initially buy them. In which case, the Subaru had to overcome their tires because the Subaru's OEM tires aren't much. I think the major difference is the Subaru's X Mode. It's a fairly sophisticated computerized system that monitors each tire individually and adds power and braking as needed to maintain traction. None of those other vehicles have anything comparable.

My wife’s Subaru Forester runs better than any truck I’ve ever owned unles snow is over 10 inches or so.

Saw plenty of trucks in the ditch. But in Central NY cities, the Subarus far out numbered the trucks.

If your perception is fact (and again, that is not my observation) it had more to do with the tires or lack of the driver's skill/judgement than anything with the vehicle itself.

Had an Outback and it was a beast in the snow. Would still have one it it wasn't for the engine. It was loud.

Friend has a Honda Pilot and he takes it were I would hesitate. Plus he has a huge area in the back with the rear seats folded up. Rides nice and an all around great outdoor vehicle for those who don't need hard a core 4wd.

As noted by others, IMO driver error causes the majority of vehicles I've seen in the ditch during a Seattle snow storm to be 4WD, usually SUVs. They go better on slick roads but don't stop any better so the over-confident drivers push them too fast for conditions.

One other comment: on the PNW coast the snow tends to be barely at freezing temp, so it packs into slick ice and is soapy slick anyway, much slicker than snowy roads in temps way below zero where I used to live. In 25 years I never got snowed in in central BC, but have had it happen twice in less than 20 years on the coast even though we rarely have snow. In each case I could go with my Suzuki but the through roads were blocked with logjammed stalled vehicles. To get back home I drove up a hill on the sidewalk because the sloping street was full of spun-out vehicles.

Totalled my Zuki Sidekick winter before last on black ice on the Coquihalla Pass, the Highway Through Hell (re the TV show of that name).

Interesting info re the Forester.

I drive a buttload of miles in the winter all over the western US. I get a lot of unfun experience, especially driving across Wyoming, over and over.

I have driven excursions, Chevy half ton pickup, a saab front wheel wagon, Nissan half-ton pickup, 3/4 ton diesel pickups, a subaru wagon and an Audi awd wagon.

Hands-down, the Audi wagon was the best. If was like driving on rails with good, high-quality snow/ice tires. I could adjust the ride height and busted some pretty good drifts in western Nebraska and eastern Montana. The thing was a tank. Weighed more than my half-ton pickups, and was a comfortable dream to drive. The subaru was also good. Not near the machine to drive. Not nearly as heavy. But handled slick roads very well.

The front-wheel drive saab was good until you got into snow deeper than 6 inches. And it isn't often you hit that. Far more common to drive on snowpack and ice.

I drive a Nissan Titan now. Would love to get another Audi, but I do not miss the mechanic bills.

My 2005 4 door Taco is the worst on snow of any vehicle I have owned.
NO matter how much weight I add it has LOUSY traction.
Not sure what there is in the design but traction SUCKS.

We have a Pontiac Montana minivan. With studded tires, it's a much better slick road car than my Dodge 2500 4x4. It's got excellent traction. Cross winds will affect it some, though, with all that surface area. They made an AWD version, too, but I've never driven one. That would be great.
The best I've ever had was a couple different Subarus. Those things would go anywhere that didn't high center them.

Best I've vehicle I ever had in the snow is my current '15 Ram 2500 Reg. Cab 4x4, 6.4L Hemi, auto, 4.10 gears w/auto locking rear diff, plow pkg. 8.5' Fisher Extreme V Plow.

I run Goodyear Duratrac Tires and 600 lbs. of ballast weight behind the rear tires against the tail gate. If you add 1000 lbs. to the front you gotta put the recommended ballast weight in the back. A lot of guys don't. Having it makes a ton of difference not only while plowing, but while driving in general.

As mentioned, good tires and good driving is paramount above all else for winter driving.

NYH1.

Well that immediately had predictable outcome.....wasn't hard to figure out who the advertiser was..

ads like that are marketing folks... plain pure and simple...

My first job out of college was selling copy machines...

one thing you learn real quick, is how everyone tries to show how good their machines were at high quality
details.. so they would always take a 'sample test sheet' to a demo, and then tell the potential customer to
copy it on their machine and then on any other competitors that were bidding for the sale....

it always looked great on the machine of the vendor who supplied the test sample... and like crap on the
other machines...

however if a competitor was smart enough to do the same thing.. then his test sample would look best
on his copier and like crap on all the other machines...

simple fact, everyone conducted tests, that made their product look the rest, or put out the best results..

I'll guarantee you, the Subaru set the test, where it knew its vehicle would perform the best...and along with
making sure the competitive vehicles 4WD systems would fail...

in the real world, when you are dealing with Joe or Julie Everyday Driver....most of those vehicles with the same
tires, would get thru about the same slick obstacle, with the same degree of success...

bottom line it was the tires,.... which wasn't highlighted or mentioned...

the others I am sure had regular tires, that would come on the vehicle new to the So California market...

the Subaru either had, hydrophilic tires like Blizzacks or if it had summer tires like the other cars., I bet they
were siphed....


When selling copy machines, which was a real cut throat business.. if the competitors machine did the best on
a 'sample copy' than anyone elses... the way, a smart competitor learned to counter that, was to ask to look at their
competitors copier...which the prospective customer didn't care, as it wasn't theirs....then they would just pour some
of their copy machines ink.. into the ink reservoir of the other guys....kinda like throwing a 10 gallons of diesel
fuel into gasoline engine's fuel tank....

or pull the drum out of theirs like you were clearing a jam.... and then put your fingers all over their drum...
the oils in your fingers ruined the drum....and spoiled their fancy copier....

That is why you always asked the potential customer to look at yours last, if you were smart...

The Subaru Ad was just as honest, I guarantee ya... they stacked the deck in their favor...
and let the public draw the conclusions they wanted them to do...

even the best traction car on the planet, with the best winter tires available... still aren't the best period
because it is negated by idiot drivers who get overconfident... and think that their tires and all wheel drive
vehicle, turns the road into summer time easy traction....right up to the moment they spin out, hit something
or nose dive into the ditch...

any one remember the early 80s when Chevy Citations came out, that had front wheel drive.. and Goodyear
Tiempo Tires? Car salesmen were overselling their abilities in winter... at least in Minnesota... and every
snowfall, the medians and ditches were full of Citations

good point, but the best part of the system or the worst part is still the driver...

AWD and "All Season tires" ( yeah maybe for So. Cal), are bad, because they get drivers overconfident... right up
to the moment that they suddenly, are going fast enough to loose grip and too fast to recover quickly....

That is why you see so many small SUVs and large pickups in the ditch in snow country about anywhere...

and why is it that city people seem to forget everything they know about winter driving over the summer...
yet rural people don't....

Snow hitting Seattle or Potland, are one of the most hilarious things you can ever see...

even if only a couple of inches...

I 80 between Sacramento and Reno rates a second place to that....

I had a Dodge Charger SRT- not a very good snow machine, at all.

My wife's Ford Flex Limited AWD is the best vehicle we've ever had for inclement weather. Plus it'll pull your bass-boat in a pinch and, with the seats folded down, you can stuff 2 bucks in it coming home from an out of state hunting trip.

It's all about the tires!
Good tires can make an ordinary AWD seem unbelievable.
Bad snow tires can make a good AWD system seem awful.
End of story.

Put appropriate tires on your car and drive well.

That’s the takeaway?

Still impressive to go up 30* slope of wet poly.

That test confirms much of what I knew in my heart from driving that Subaru already.

In South Africa Subaru’s are considered the best farm vehicles made. Maybe Subaru paid for and conducted this test, but that independent company ran it. Much like a good lawyer, don’t ask questions you don’t know the answers too.

Subaru would not have been in my short list much of my life but watching them run circles around stock factory CJs showed me the light. No stock factory Jeep Wrangler is climbing that ramp either!

That was my 1st thought, too. It was probably a better tire test than a car test. I don't know if any of the cars tested had any kind of limited slip or something or it they all had open diffs on both ends.

The best I've had were my 1999 Ford Explorer Sport and my current '04 Grand Cherokee. Either would/will bust through a 2 foot snow bank and crawl up my driveway {as steep as that ramp in the video} through a foot of snow no problem.

Ditto!!!

Even with six sand bags and snow tires mine didn't feel planted.

The only thing I've driven that was worse was my brothers late '80's SR5.

Best rig was an 80's Blazer.

Interesting replies all.

Someone mentioned their first Subaru I believe. Mine was a brand new 1977 4WD, 4 cyl, 4speed wagon. Unbelievable for a SoCal boy of 23 years old. First real snow trip was on a Forest Service road in January on an 8000' ft mountain and we made it nearly to the top. To a spot we called the turn around because the last 1/4 mile or so was hell even when there wasn't snow. Brother and a friend were seriously impressed because they felt their full size Chevy pickups would never had made it that far, even the friend's lifted one. It served well for a winter in Harrisburg PA area sleet/snow/ice also. Had one around for years and years in places it didn't snow much but didn't feel at a disadvantage when we did get some.

Next was an 84 Wagon with the 2 speed transfer case. Used it in NW PA and the White Mountains of AZ. Always worked well there, very few sketchy moments, even with ice under the snowpack.

Had an issue with overcharging for repairs by a Subaru dealer, I got no satisfaction from Subaru of America, and when the 86 went down the road it was replaced with Toyota equipment.

Had an 86 2wd long bed 5 speed for a number of years, including a winter in Juneau AK. What a funny place that was for a guy from the lower 48. I put studs on the 'yota truck, it had a fiberglass camper shell on the back, I kept my 50lb+ tool box back there and a few other things for weight and I got along quite well up there. But I never figured on the number of vehicles in the center median every morning in the winter on the highway heading into downtown. Mostly SUV's of the Tahoe/Explorer/Highlander etc type. Best I could figure was folks thinking the newfangled AWD, anti-lock brakes, traction control etc made those things magic machines that could go 60 on ice and never crash.

Being old enough to remember when most folks got by just fine with "winter treads" on the 2wd family car I now feel blessed to have the Rav4 we got the wife last year and my '01 Tacoma, both with studs for the winter. My poor wife had to drive me back from Portland last Christmas Eve over packed snow and ice from about Oakridge OR to where we live in NE Cali. About 5 of the 7 hours the trip takes. She hated the drive but we never had the slightest of slippage, she just hates driving in those conditions.

I'll agree with the folks about the tires being the critical element, perhaps coming in after sound judgement in the driver's seat.

I learned a very long time ago that one can't get in a winter weather related driving "accident" if one is not driving in winter weather. If I don't absolutely have to go before the roads are plowed and sanded, then I don't go.

Everyone enjoy the holiday,

Geno

Yeah, but those Chevy Citations did have excellent traction in the snow.

OK I'm not gonna read thru all these... Just throw my 2 bits into the pot. Our '97 Expedition with 240,000 mile on it is as good a snow vehicle as I have driven. (Lots of room there!). Good studded tires, appropriate speed for conditions (5 1/2 hours to make 130 miles to Anchorage one time.... we really, really had to get to Hawaii.... and attention to detail has taken us thru some pretty nasty stuff.

Oh yes- 500 pounds of weight in the back helps tremendously! I just drove it down to Soldotna from Anchorage with about that much weight in the back, on roads that ranged from wet to slushy to packed snow, to pure ice. But clear of snow. Mostly in 4wd, some of it awd. And mostly at or not far below posted speed limits. It never gave me the feeling I was pushing it (I was), but I always kept in mind moving control isn't the same as stopping control. But then, I wasn't bucking snow, either. That calls for slower speeds than what I used, due to the flotation/"grab" factor.

For a 2 wheel drive vehicle, my old Dodge Duster with a few concrete blocks in the trunk was pdg going thru those CO/WY/SD/ MT blizzards. If the roads hadn't been closed yet, we went!

I hate deer!

2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee w brand new Goodyear Tracker 2's was amazingly good, snow or ice.
Tall n skinny tires, no lift.............it did 2wd when everybody else was sliding in 4wd.

My lifted ZJ with Goodyear MTRs was a beast 2wd or 4wd..........but it'd pick a weird line now and then.

The WJ was so mild mannered it was silly.

Both solid front axle rigs.

That 2004 made me and my kids ill riding/driving it. Something about windshield angle or layout........20 mins and headache.
Didn't bother the ol lady.

Kids and I spent hrs in the beater ZJ.............no probs.

Hate hate hate the WJ............but dang if it didn't kick arse in the snow w those then new tires.

Had an '84 X-11. Darn good car. Sold it at 280,000 miles and still running well.

My sis has some top end Subaru......in CO.
No complaints.
Toured the SIA factory years ago......some engineering dinner thing.
Pretty cool.
They had a small herd of deer out by the test track.

Two things keep me from buying a Subaru.

Money

and Bob Rohrman commcercials.

Dealer in my town had two Bajas come in not long ago........bet they were crazy high priced.
I didn't even go to look.

We had a product manager in the office that transferred from Georgia and we would let that guy leave half an hour early when it snowed because none of us wanted to be on the same road with him.
True enough about weight in the back end of a truck or it does near nothing for traction. I had an old K5 Blazer with a hydraulic plow up front that I bought used. The guy had a big, heavy metal plate all across the back cargo area of that thing, but I took it out as unnecessary. Wow did I learn fast what it was doing there on the first slippery down hill coming out of school. The short coupled pos did a 180 turn around the front axle and I was going down that hill backwards. It sure made a memory and was my last ever Chevy.

its all in the tires,tire pressure and the driver. the car or truck makes little differents.

What did you guys run for tires on your Taco's? I know a few people that own(ed) them and never complained about them.

NYH1.

After quite a bit of snow driving experience with two wheel drive cars, my absolute best 2wd snow/ice driver was a 1966 Toronado. Also a great overall car if a guy didn't mind the required fuel consumption.

Best that I've driven, 2001 Jeep Grand Cherokee with the full-time transfer case and Quadra-Drive axles.
Worst that I've driven, my buddies 1985 Chevette (it did do some wicked donuts though)

The best one I ever had was a 2007 Hyundai Santa Fe Limited... That thing was an absolute mountain goat when it came to slippery roads... I should have kept it probably - but at the end of the lease I figured who needs an extra vehicle (insurance, plates etc) when I had a perfectly fine F-350 in the shed? Let it go.

The best snow vehicle I have owned was a VW Beetle.Sucker would go through any amount of snow no problem.

A long time ago I had an old '50s model Dodge with their 'fluid drive' transmission.
That old car was about the most impressive rear wheel drive only vehicle on packed snow and slick roads that I can recall having ever driven, especially considering the tires available back then. You just couldn't hardly make that thing break traction.

My wife has a GTP Grand Prix ...we drove it to the shot show in Vegas one year....it snowed some and the car did fine....the wife was mad tho as the car never sees a bad road .....we drive an 89 k5 or suburban in the winter mostly...
Back in the 80 s I had a front wheel drive Pontiac Phoenix and my brother had a Chevy Citation....basicly the same platform...
Those things would keep up with a 4x4. My brother would run trap line in his...we both ran those cars till they died...

So it was Chevy's fault the weight was removed from the back end that was there to counterbalance the plow up front ?

Geno

Worst seems to be my diesel Ram. Lot's of weight of front with lots of torque (and no weight) at the rear. Then again, second best is the same truck when shifted into 4WD.

Best I've driven is our '05 4Runner with full-time 4WD. It does great in snow, mud, what ever.

The 'loose nut between steering wheel and drivers seat' is more important than what that 'nut' is driving in many instances.

A couple of guys at work went out at lunchtime to try out one guys new Subarus in a heavy snowstorm.
They were wet, cold, pi$$ed off when they made it back to the office later that afternoon.

A Suburban with Goodrich ATs was one of the better rigs I've used in snow.

Throw 1,000 lbs in the bed of that Ram.. Works for mine (3500 crew).

That 4-runner I had, I really liked, but it was top heavy, ass end light, tended to skid... Damned well built, as we came out of it with stratches when my wife hit black ice, put it headfirst into a rock wall opposite lane, and we wound up back across our lane on the shoulder, upside down, engine still running...

After crawling out the back window (shattered when the spare tire went out, but doors would not open), my 7 year old (now in 30's) looked around and said "now I know why you make us wear seat belts".

I'd buy another...

Or just use your four wheel drive....that's what it's for.

NYH1.

It WAS in 4WD! She was worried about her classroom mice going thirsty, And mostly the road was dry. There was this one shadowed corner with black ice...

It doesn't take much to pile up uberchit on one in a second or two...

4WD ain't a cure-all for dumshititis.

4WD ain't a cure-all for dumshititis.

Feel free to copy this as a sig line....

My Wife has a '97 Toyota 4-Runner 4WD, with GOOD traction tires, that dose good in snow.

I have an '04 Tacoma 4WD TRD. I added a sheet of 1/2" steel plat under the matt in the bed, and it dose good with the extra weight, AND Toyo MT tires.

I've got almost 1/2 mile of driveway, that gains 300 feet elevation from the road.

I hate snow !

Virgil B.

I was referring to RyanTX. Saying a 4wd truck isn't good in the snow unless it's in 4wd is like saying my truck doesn't stop good for stop signs....unless I push the brake peddle. 4wd is part of the of the overall operating system of the vehicle.

My truck doesn't plow good in 2wd, even with really good tires and 600 lbs. of ballast weight behind the rear wheels against the tailgate as recommended. In 4wd it's a beast. So it's the best plow truck I've ever had. See what I mean.

NYH1.

Been driving in snow for 55 years and never owned a 4WD until 1976 when I bought a Subaru. I had cars which seemed to be particularly good in snow or on slick roads and some which were less than great. One of my best early vehicles was a 1952 Buick Roadmaster. This car, with it's big straight eight, seemed to be fairly well balanced and was heavy enough to push through a lot of snow. The important thing was to maintain momentum. Of the rear wheel drive cars I had, all were about the same, workable but not exceptional. Low powered cars were easier to handle. My 62 Chrysler 300 H wasn't all that great because it was just a little too touchy. A 61 Ford Falcon station wagon didn't have enough power to spin a tire on slick ice so it worked pretty well.
My first front wheel drive car, a 1971 Subaru GL 1200, was markedly better than any RWD. I drove this car in ridiculous conditions and, in fact, road conditions were never an issue unless snow had gotten so deep the car would high-center. In 1976, I traded to a 4WD Subaru which was, of course, even better when conditions were slick. One thing I had learned much earlier, while driving Power Wagons around in Germany, was that, while four wheel drives stuck much better, when you pushed too hard, you lost both ends and had no control. In two wheel drive, the rear end would step out and you generally had some warning. This applied mostly in real icy conditions. If there was at least some traction, you could still get some control back , as a rule. Front wheel drives, if pushed too hard, will tend to push (understeer) while rear wheel drives will oversteer. Posi-trac or limited slip, rear ends are even worse in this regard. When the wheels spin, there isn't much directional control.
A 1972 Chevy pick-up (Short box, step-side) I had demonstrated this was well as any. While it would push ahead pretty well, give it a little too much throttle in a turn and you could end up facing the other way pretty quickly. With a bunch of weight in the back, it had a tendency to want to push straight ahead and not turn at all. This was particularly bothersome if you were heading toward a drop-off and the damn truck wouldn't turn. You just had to wait and hope the little berm at the side of the road would do the trick. Anyone who has driven a tandem-axle truck on ice has experienced this often. Anyway, this tendency caused much anxiety from time to time. Still, with a little weight and a bit of aggression, this little truck was not half bad in the snow and quite good on the highway in snow.
When I bought my first four wheel drive truck (not until 1991!), it was a whole new ball game, of course. My '91 Dodge diesel was pretty good in 2wd and excellent in 4wd. It worked pretty well off road and would plow through a lot of snow. It took a lot to stop it. It wasn't quite as good in the really deep stuff as an old 62 Power Wagon I have but it was still good. If there is less than 2 feet of snow on the road, I have no qualms about driving on it (it might be necessary to stop and clear the snow around the radiator now and then).
Today, I have a 3500 Ram diesel and it is at least as good as the old '91 with a couple of caveats. In two wheel drive it has a real tendency to step outif you're not careful. A limited slip rear end and too much torque are the culprits here. I positively hate the 4wd switch on the dash. In the '91 or my '81 half ton, I can shift into 4wd, on the fly, and when I pull on the lever, it engages. With the switch, I can shift on the fly but probably have to feather the throttle and wait while the servo-motor decides to shift. Phooey!
The very best snow vehicle I have ever owned was a 1981 Lada Niva. This little Russian built 4wd sedan had tall, skinny 16 inch tires and was a full-time 4wd but with an open differential between front and rear. A lever locked up the differential if desired and there was also hi and low range. The Fiat engine was under-powered but would at least move the little box around OK. One
time, I had driven my '70 Ford Bronco up a draw behind the house and was struggling to get out of a moderate predicament; there was about a foot of snow. My son drove up behind me in the Niva, drove a circle around the Bronco, then drove straight up the side and out of the draw to go get some gear to get the Bronco out. Just an awsome performer if a little ugly and short on creature comforts.
In conclusion, on really slick roads, horsepower is not your friend. Momentum is your friend unless you're heading for a busy intersection. Anti-lock brakes are a hazard as is traction control. Sometimes you have to slip a little and you had better be able to do it. GD

A quote that I am rather fond of is: "The only advantage in four wheel drive is that it enables you to get stuck in more inaccessible places."
Lots of guys buy them and think that they are like tanks with rubber tires. High and heavy with hard tires, they go in snow real well, but slide and don't stop real well.

On snow, Subarus are hard to beat. The are not overly heavy, so easier to stop as well as maneuver and the symmetrical AWD is bullet proof.

Will comment that there are many kinds of snow. I had a ball one day driving back roads in -20 F temps and downy light snow almost level with the hood of my Suzuki Sam. Billows of snow flying up and I could drive at any speed I chose. I hoped that there was not a big rock in the road under that snow! The same rig cannot push through 8 inches of heavy dense coastal snow, especially if there is a crust halfway between the ground and the surface of the snow. Chains will chew through, seldom worth it to me.

The only thing that really scares me is black ice. When it frosts in humid coastal areas, clear ice forms on road surfaces unseen. Studded tires are the only thing I know of that may help, and I dislike them.

In my opinion the all-wheel drive systems of the Subaru and Honda Pilot are superior to anything else I have driven or know of for pavement driving. However to fully optimize their superior engineering you still need good tires and a good driver. With Subaru you need to know when its best to use or not use the traction control system. We have 3 Subarus now--16 Crosstrek, 01 Legacy, 09Tribeca.

Of those 3, our currently best set up for snow is our Tribeca with some Cooper tires. It has 265 HP and unless your stomp it pretty hard, it will seldom slip on a relatively hard takeoff. If you turn off the traction control and break the tires free it will still go forward and track straight. You can easily and safely drive it down the road with the tires spinning well beyond the ground speed. And the breaking is superior.

The older Legacy does not have traction control and it will still pretty closely follow the Tribeca even with medium grade tires. It doesn't make sense to put more expensive tires on an older vehicle that still does so well in snow with medium grade tires. It will also track straight and safely if you spin the tires faster than your ground speed and drive down the road.

The Crosstrek still has the factory Geolanders on it so it doesn't have its full capability yet. However it still does so well in snow that it makes no sense to change tires till they are worn down. With new tires it will be a whole new evaluation.

My current 02 diesel F250 (extended cab 6' bed) with Firestone ATs is the best truck I've had in snow but it does not match the Subarus on the road.

The Honda Pilot we used to have was very good, but the Tribeca has the edge. One of the reasons is because the Tribeca has a lower center of gravity and therefore a more stable all-round platform.

I've had a Toyota Tacoma TRD that was a great truck but not as good as the Subarus.

I've had an all-wheel drive GMC Safari--very good but no Subaru

Diesel Jeep Liberty (a few were made) very good 4-wheel system -- but no Subaru.

Because Subarus are so good going forward with mediocre tires some people do not run good enough tires for braking and get themselves in trouble by driving too fast. That is operator error not a Subaru problem.

The whole lesbian perspective comment is sometimes someone who can't deal with a car outperforming their pet truck or Jeep.

In my experience there is no comparison to Subarus low center of gravity with a boxer engine coupled with high ground clearance, weight distribution, and traction control options (on or off). If you have optimum tires and a good driver I don't see much of a contest.

Gee, really? Ya think?

Yep!

NYH1.

My first car was a 1967 Plymouth Valiant with the slant 6 and a set of steel belted radial tires (ooooh) that I bought in 1975. Back then that was a big deal, most poor students had cheap bias ply tires. I was going to school just 30 miles from the Canadian border in NY and we got lots of snow. I would go anywhere with that thing. I remember one trip to Malone NY to visit a lady friend (the call of the wild) in a blizzard and driving down the road she lived on which had over 6 inches of snow and had not yet been plowed. She thought I was crazy!

My second car was the 1973 AMC Hornet and it was just plain horrible.

My first new car was a 1983 Toyota Tercel FWD and it was great in snow. I remember one trip to VT to visit a friend. I was coming home in a light drizzle which turned to ice when I went to up one hill. I could feel the car get a little squirrely and there were several cars stopped at the bottom of the hill that had tried and failed to make it up. I opened my window to chat with some of the guys who were unsuccessful and they told me not to try the hill but to turn around and find a hotel room for the night. I decided to attempt the hill. I decided it best to get my right wheels on the shoulder where it was a little rougher. As I crested the hill, I heard someone yell out, "The SOB is gonna make it." That light, under-powered FWD econobox was really good in the snow. A 1991 Toyota Camry was pretty good and my subsequent Subarus have been excellent. I have a story that demonstrates how tough my 2000 Subaru Outback was when I was rear-ended in 2007, but it's a long story and I'll save it for another car thread.

The core problem is that four wheel drive of any kind lets you GO when the real issue is whether your tires will let you STOP or TURN.

I've had some evil handlers and survived them all. One killer rig turned into a pretty good ice-driver with all seasons in front and studs in the back, changed it from total oversteer to a little bit of understeer that could be managed with the throttle. I could pitch it sideways like a flat tracker and stay in it all the way around.

Bottom line for me, however, is road feel, and manual everything. A tin box with good tires, better heater and manual steering can really perform and get over the road when conditions are bad. I'm talking boondocks where there's nobody else in the way, however, for making time. Even so, a good rig with proportionate power steering that kicks back at you through the wheel is always better than cushy power steering. I wish cars had a switch where you could dial down the "power" on both brakes AND steering.

93 Dodge Diesel is the best.
5 speed, I get to choose the gears.
Lot of low end torque, and the turbo is lazy.

Use a high gear, it will start in 3rd with no problem, no throttle.
Stay out of the turbo, and it will pull like an old farm tractor.

I only use four wheel drive when necessary to get mooving. On the highway,
I use two wheel. If the rear twitches and slides, it keeps me honest. Otherwise,
I get heavy footed. Plus, I like to play.

Worst, my wife's old 92 Tbird. That SOB scared the crap out of me. With studs it was fine.
One day I had hauled gas/diesel all day in the snow, parked the semi got in the 'Bird, and was
scared all the way home. Put the studs on right then.

Worst 4x4,
CJ-7, it was great off highway, or if you could drive slow.
If that thing got loose, it spun so fast you couldn't catch it.

I have had skid pad training, and even when I purposely put it into a skid,
I often couldn't catch it.

I had a jeep YJ with big axles and lockers at both ends, big wide tires, soft flexy suspension, it was great in the mud. Put that same machine on ice and it was flat scary. On dry pavement I had to push the clutch in around corners or it would buck and chirp. On pavement with snow and ice it would spin around turning a corner.

I live in a city with lots of hills that gets lots of snow. I wouldn't be w/o at least on 4x4 in the household.

I have a '09 Tacoma 4cyl 5speed 4x4. It works great GREAT in snow, but then I don't drive like a madman either.

The best I’ve driven in snow have been “older style” SUV’s. As in 70’s and80’s Broncos,Blazers,Ram Chargers and such with tall skinny tires that are on the soft side. The newer Tahoe’s don’t seem to have as much clearance and get stuck. I had an 84 Jimmy with a 305, 33” tires and 373 gearing with limited slip in the front and back. That was a snow busting machine. Also a real bitch to get out when you did get it stuck.

I agree brinky72, had an old 1980 Bronco that would go anywhere I wanted to.. Went better in 2wd then most vehicles in 4wd!!

I just had a new Toyota Tundra stuck in the snow for a few days as I was trying to get to my cabin in Montana. Pretty deep snow and it was the worst vehicle I've ever driven in the snow, including an old Lincoln Town car from the 1980s (which actually was a pretty good snow vehicle). The same trail was no problem for a Subaru Legacy I had the year before. Part of the problem was the stock all season tires on the Tundra, but it just couldn't even handle the easy stuff. That was probably a good thing, since it got me stuck about 1000 feet up the trail rather than a few miles up, but still...

Willy’s truck

Worst I ever dealt with is either my 1972 SS396 RS Camero or a 1994 Saturn.

Best car surprisingly, was a 1983 Olds Ciera with a transverse-mounted 4cylinder. That car was a wonder, with the engine weight over the drive wheels and not enough power to get you into trouble. Drove it home about 50 miles one Christmas Ever after a powdery snow fell over glare ice without a bit of trouble, past dozens of accidents. We just chugged on by.

I had one for a few years, a 2003 I think it was. you darn tootin' it was a snow-goer. heavy, sucked gas, but it would flat go in snow we got in Reno NV, as much as a couple of feet at times in a nonstop 3 day storm. biggest was 41 inches over 3 straight days.

Good winter tires and skills will allow you to handle most winter roads and driving conditions. A driver who can't or won't adjust their driving to to the conditions will go off the road.

One of the best vehicles I've had was a Toyota 4X4 pickup, pre-tacoma. Only used a/t tires on it and it handled better than it had a right to on snow and not that bad on ice. My ram 2500 diesel wasn't so hot with the factory a/t's but did much better with studded winter tires.

The vehicles we've put more winter miles than any others have been Mercedes 4matics. Don't know if they are the best winter vehicle, certainly don't have the ground clearance for deep snow, but with a set of blizzaks/nokians etc and the traction control it is pretty amazing on slick roads.

Driving in a couple of feet to 41 inches of snow never caused the grill to get pulled up making it over heat? Interesting.

NYH1.

You said that right. I run Bridgestone 965 Blizzaks on my Chevy 2500HD truck and DVM-2 Blizzaks on my daily beater S-10. Good tires makes a world of difference, but one must also know how to drive in harsh winter conditions. The S-10 goes a lot better than the big heavy 2500HD.

You see, so many people buy these SUV's, all wheel drives, and get lured into that mentality that they can still haul A%$ on the road. Their the big crashes that you see beside of the road. One must adjust driving speeds according to conditions.

Over about 12 inches, it needed to be "whupped down"hard-packed before the Astro would handle it.

Worse truck I ever drove 1959 Maxim 75ft midship mount aerial (fire) truck. With less than 1/4 inch of snow on the ground and the vehicle stopped completely on a hill it turned into a 75,000lb unsteerable unstopable 2 man toboggan. The crown of the road drifted me over enough to get the wheels on the sidewalk before I went thru an intersection possibly hitting a house across the street (my plan was to hit a parked car in a driveway once I made it across the street). Thank god no one was on the road in front of me or in the intersection. My front bumper was just into the intersection when I finally got it stopped.

We got caught on a call when snow started falling and I was forced to take a hill to get back to the firehouse. This rig had a well deserved reputation and hills were to be avoided. Plowable snow and chains made it a little better but with no weight over the rear wheels and 1950s braking technology made it a handful. My captain wasn’t helping pulling on the air horn using my air as I pumped the brakes.

My own choice is an Audi Quattro with true winter tires for roads. I'm sure a 4Matic would do as well. I know some of the AWD doesn't do as well. About equal distance from here to Audi dealerships in Bozeman, Boise and Salt Lake City so not without its own issues.

Front wheel (Volvo )and all wheel drive (Subaru) has done well for me around the Front Range say with heavy snow on paved road in flat land country. Starting uphill with most of the weight in front and shifting backward as the angles increased worked about as well an articulated bus in Seattle going up the East Hill, that is to say not at all My Colorado experience and observation is that a Subaru is a minimum for really good results. A lot of traction controlled awd vehicles are good enough for most purposes if you can wait out the worst storms and deepest snow and slush. That traction control on a 4x2 can help especially with bags of sweeping compound or kitty litter for times the best of 4x2 doesn't cut it in a light vehicle and grades.

An early Bronco jacked up and flared on big tires with clutch type posi front and rear did a fine job for me for many years. I never found the clutch type posi in front to be anything but good despite concerns and warnings to the contrary. Throwing rooster tails from all 4 wheels so I know the front was driving and with locking front hubs. Automatic front hubs have not always done as well as I expected. I suspect the automatic front hub of unlocking trying to back out against resistance or rock out or 5 point turn around.

Anything that locks up all around and has ample room for regular heavy duty chains works for me from unplowed roads to off-road.

Ideally a set of rims for summer tires, a set of rims for winter tires and a set of rims for traction tires with chains mounted. I used to kid myself the noise from winter tires didn't bother me and maybe on real snow it didn't. The quiet when I went to summer tires was always a great relief just the same. Winter tires mounted and 4 chained tires in the bed the chained tires gave weight for traction and confidence. Making it relatively easy to put the chains on and off encouraged putting the chains on in plenty of time. Taking the chained wheels off and trying to make up for lost time when I hit paved road put me in the ditch a time or two but I could drive out of the ditch so no big deal.

When I lived at circa 9,000 feet and .6 mile from paved road with 400 feet of vertical most anything with clearance to use real chains would get up and down. One of the little all wheel drive no transfer case won't drive off a jack sport/utilities the Sheriff used gave up a third of the way up. We agreed that, walking the whole driveway and planning, it would have been possible - except maybe first trip on fresh snow. That assumes keeping the momentum up and accepting that there were corners I had to turn and could turn maybe bumping the bank on the uphill side and straights once committed I couldn't turn or even steer and uphills I had to hit with a lot of momentum or just leave the car when it stopped moving forward.

My 2005 Tacoma Extended cab has the WORST traction of any vehicle I have ever owned.

Fill the bed with concrete blocks plus 125 # piece or RR rail an still no traction.

Interesting because other than that I love the little truck

Don't get much snow here but had a fair amount in one place I've lived. With my limited experience I can input that a 1978 Camaro SUCKS in snow/ice...others may suck more but not much more....

What are you running for tires? I know a few guys that plowed with Taco's and they worked pretty well. Tires mean everything.

NYH1.

I had an RX7 that wasn't so hot on snow. Even with studded snow tires it was pretty much guaranteed the back end would loose traction at least once a day when driving in the winter. Once I was on an incline at a stop light when the roads were icy and I was barely able to get going.

What I've learned is that if you live somewhere with winter driving conditions over 1/2 the year, it makes a bit of sense to have either 4wd or awd and winter tires. You're pretty much guaranteed to get where your going unless the conditions are to the point that you're better staying off the roads. The two conditions where I now say F it I'm staying home is if it's raining on top of an icy road bed, or the snow is 2' deep and still dumping. If you absolutely positively have to get somewhere then 4wd with studded tires and v bar chains are as good as it gets short of going this route:

I had an old AMC Eagle that mechanically was probably the worst vehicle I ever owned. We were stuck using it for hunting one year with close to two feet of fresh snow on the ground. The darned thing never got stuck once. Too bad the were such a piece of junk. I liked the concept with 4wd on a wagon with decent ground clearance, but man that thing was a mechanical minefield. I've been driving an Explorer for about 5 years now and it's done good in the white stuff. In the process of buying a Chevy 4x4 full size pickup-short bed, crew cab. Hope that one serves me as well as the Explorer did.

I had a Toyota Tacoma that was fantastic in the snow for some reason. My 04 Chevy Tahoe was great in the snow. Even in 2wd.

The best car I've had in the snow was a 2002 Dodge Neon. That little sucker seemed to go through everything.

Why would you wait for the gays to show up?

Had a buddy that had a 72 VW bug with studded snow tires on it. That sucker went anywhere we wanted to go.
We took it hill climbing many a time, just needed a ice scraper for the inside of the windows and froze our a$$ off all the time.

The worst was a '69 Ford F-250 Camper Special (2WD). I swear to God if there was a half an inch of snow on level ground I could barely get moving.And that was after the rock, back and forth, maneuver. It had 7.50-16 bias ply highway tread tires on it. (things were simpler back in those days as far as choices) Otherwise it was a good truck.
Best would have to be my '83 CJ7 as long as the snow wasn't too deep and ground clearance became an issue. Used BF Goodrich 205/75r15 or 31x10.50r15 Mud Terrains.

We had a '97 RAV 4 that was a dream in snow. It was all wheel drive and super light. It never got stuck.

Rumors are that the Honda Ridgeline(old version) is one of the best snow cars of all time

Hey I have one of those!

Wouldn't dare to try and drive it in the snow. Little 383 stroker motor makes a tad to much power....probably wouldn't even move.

NYH1.