I grew up there and still have many friends that still live there. Touched base and they are all safe and evacuated, now they play a waiting game and hope they have a home to return to. Sad deal.
My thoughts and prayers to everyone so grievously impacted by this fire. It's hard to imagine that there's much left to burn in California. It seems like the whole state's ablaze at one time or another.
Fuggit....burn the whole state down. Now that Gavin Newsom is going to be governor, I really dont give a f u c k.
And aren't you a lovely American.
After a lifetime of attacks for being an extremely avid hunter, shooter and second amendment supporter, I'm done. These sonsabitches elected the most radical anti American, anti gun, liberal Governor to lead them into the future and I dont want to be a part of it. GFY.
Fuggit....burn the whole state down. Now that Gavin Newsom is going to be governor, I really dont give a f u c k.
You don't give a fugg as long as flames aren't licking at your doorstep and threatening your precious taxidermy, of which you'd promptly take pictures and post on the 24hrcf.
Yeah, burn the whole place down because Newsome won and you can't move to Cody because your amazing wife won't let you.
You'd be posting pics of your boy telling us how scary fire is and how worried you are because he's "your world".
But go ahead and make this about you and how you're the victim. Again.
Sal, I have always enjoyed your posts and pictures...and am sympathetic towards your frustration concerning California and its politics...but I think you're a bit out of line on this one.
I’m asking this because I don’t know the facts. Is the fire problem caused by the tree huggers not letting the under brush cleared out. Or is it the high winds causing the fire to spread. Hasbeen
Fuggit....burn the whole state down. Now that Gavin Newsom is going to be governor, I really dont give a f u c k.
Classless.
I hope you were just having a bad morning when you posted that, because if that is how you truly feel you are a pathetic excuse for a human being.
There are MILLIONS of great, conservative people in that State (including some of my family and friends, who are impacted by the Campfire.). And even those that DO vote blue still don't deserve to be burned alive, trapped in their houses.
I’m asking this because I don’t know the facts. Is the fire problem caused by the tree huggers not letting the under brush cleared out. Or is it the high winds causing the fire to spread. Hasbeen
I am sure like normal, it is probably both, along with drought. Wildlands will burn, whether we like it or not, and the amount of fire suppression over the past 100 or so years is really catching up to us. Add dry conditions and high winds, and you've got a recipe for disaster. The beetle killed areas throughout the west are not helping matters, and the dirt bag hippies are insisting those areas be kept "natural" for various reasons, and their lawyers are paid well.
We can have some effect on wild fire, but its pretty darn arrogant to think we can control it.
We could do a helluva better job than we're now doing....we used to have "fire towers" scattered all over the hills....most of them have been torn down or are no longer manned....we also quite often fail to dispatch our air tankers until the fire is out of control....one local fire here broke out this past summer and when it was at 40 acres, Cal Fire reported that they had two crews assigned and were "keeping an eye on it"....the next day, it was over out of control...
Fuggit....burn the whole state down. Now that Gavin Newsom is going to be governor, I really don't give a f u c k.
Sadly, I agree.
That makes three of us I feel bad for those who are stuck in that [bleep] and urge you to leave as soon as possible. The rest can sink into the mess they created.
Well Sal whoever you are, you can put your quote where the sun doesn't shine. I'm 81 and a life long resident here and we were lucky to survive last summers fires as it came within a quarter mile of our home. Sent my wife down to our daughters place but I lived in my truck for over a week. So what you are saying is because I live here I deserve to get burned out. I guess it doesn't matter that I served in the armed forces like many here, fought the anti gunners all my life (retired gunsmith), and belong at one time or another every wildlife organization out there and am also a member of the NRA and the CRPA. At my age I would like to fins you and knock you on your frugging ass you pr---. Most of the people in the fire are retired and they mostly vote conservative but in your mind just because they live there they deserve to get burned out. That's not what this country is all about. Again I 'd like to say fugg you.
So it was funny all those other times when folks outside of California would say let it burn??
A fire is headed towards Malibu, how many campfire members hope it burns? and how many will admit that? something deep inside me will not have as much compassion for a place like Malibu....
Simple human nature if you are honest you wish ill will on your enemy......
Fuggit....burn the whole state down. Now that Gavin Newsom is going to be governor, I really dont give a f u c k.
You don't give a fugg as long as flames aren't licking at your doorstep and threatening your precious taxidermy, of which you'd promptly take pictures and post on the 24hrcf.
Yeah, burn the whole place down because Newsome won and you can't move to Cody because your amazing wife won't let you.
You'd be posting pics of your boy telling us how scary fire is and how worried you are because he's "your world".
But go ahead and make this about you and how you're the victim. Again.
I'm sorry. That was a very well worded and well deserved beat down. I was wrong to say what I did. I'm just so frustrated right now and you know all the reasons why.
Fuggit....burn the whole state down. Now that Gavin Newsom is going to be governor, I really dont give a f u c k.
You don't give a fugg as long as flames aren't licking at your doorstep and threatening your precious taxidermy, of which you'd promptly take pictures and post on the 24hrcf.
Yeah, burn the whole place down because Newsome won and you can't move to Cody because your amazing wife won't let you.
You'd be posting pics of your boy telling us how scary fire is and how worried you are because he's "your world".
But go ahead and make this about you and how you're the victim. Again.
I'm sorry. That was a very well worded and well deserved beat down. I was wrong to say what I did. I'm just so frustrated right now and you know all the reasons why.
You've always been pretty reasonable and level headed. Glad to see you just had a temporary lapse of that reasonableness.
The simple truth is if you live in the west you are in danger of losing all your possessions to a wildfire, accept it or move. The truly important thing is your life and your loved ones. Stuff is just stuff and can be replaced.
My remaining friends in Paradise are capable resourceful people and they will be fine, they also have their priority's in order. They evacuated safely. I don't worry about them at this point.
It is sad to think the high school I went to is gone, my childhood home gone, my family's business they built gone...... my family saw the trajectory of California and they left several years ago. I left 40 yrs ago in pursuit of mt dreams. Much of California's ill will was brought on themselves, fires don't discriminate but ignoring the danger will never serve you well. Growing up in Calif. it seems every year they cried drought, wells would dry up the reservoirs would be down etc.... The foothill canyons filled with brush, trophy homes were built overlooking these brush filled canyons , the city people loved the view....... the logging was shut down, sawmills closed, sawmill towns in despair......
Water was diverted to so-cal , golf courses are watered, suburb lawns are lush green, delta smelt received billions of gallons of water.....
I lay some of this at the foot of misguided liberal politic's, but the bottom line is fire is a constant danger in the west and a wise person plans accordingly!
I was born and raised in Chico and have family all over the area.
Looks like my best bud lost his house right up Skyway behind the Burger King. Aunt and Uncle lost theirs east of Skyway. 2nd Aunt and Uncle have a large spread in the crosshairs near 10 Mile House Trail.
Paradise is basically gone. Based on some of the videos I have seen (burned skeletons inside of torched cars) I cannot imagine the death toll isn't into triple digits.
It is now officially the worse fire in the history of California, surpassing the Oakland Hills fire (which I was part of, oddly enough).
But the Woolsey fire may pass them all up by the time it's done.
Higbean, please give your deputy buddy my best wishes and sincere condolences. My father and grandfather were career CHP and know a thing or two about sacrifice, but not to that extent.
I’m asking this because I don’t know the facts. Is the fire problem caused by the tree huggers not letting the under brush cleared out. Or is it the high winds causing the fire to spread. Hasbeen
I am sure like normal, it is probably both, along with drought. Wildlands will burn, whether we like it or not, and the amount of fire suppression over the past 100 or so years is really catching up to us. Add dry conditions and high winds, and you've got a recipe for disaster. The beetle killed areas throughout the west are not helping matters, and the dirt bag hippies are insisting those areas be kept "natural" for various reasons, and their lawyers are paid well.
This is the new west.
T,
Having lived a big portion of my life in this state, and others in the west, and having lived very near areas where there were mega fires (Rodeo Chedeski in AZ, the Laguna fire in the 70's in SoCal, and a few others), I'd say you're quite close to hitting the nail on the head there. I was in my teens in the Laguna fire area and heard the talking heads pronouncing at that time that fire suppression methodologies must change, money MUST be spent on proactive approaches, and folks have to start accepting the situation if they choose to live at the urban/wildland interface. That was nearly 50 years ago, not much has changed, but then again, we're still trying to find a solution to the need for cheap migrant labor too.
I mentioned some of this in the threads about the Carr and other fires nearby this summer. Until our Local, State, and Federal governments figure out a way to fund fuel reduction in areas with little marketable timber, until they figure out a way to get landowners to clear around their residences, until they figure a way to put protection zones around communities, these events are going to continue to happen. Regularly.
My heart aches for those a few hundred miles south of me right now. The news guy just said the North winds are going to return this weekend. Humidity was down to 10% here today. Clear skies predicted for the next week or so too, no rain in the forecast. We just have to pray nothing starts in our area again this year. A 39K acre fire within striking distance this summer and one last summer is enough for awhile.
Those of you with loved ones in the area, or who live there yourselves, my condolences for any losses you've incurred, especially if they involved a life.
Geno
PS it would not disturb me if a mother ship arrived and removed Mr Newsome from our planet tonight, not in the least. And hopefully room for a few others.
I'd also add that lack of moisture played a HUGE part of this fire... I've read from more than one expert that the *soil moisture* in Butte County is amazingly, HISTORICALLY low right now and that was a major contributor. The GIS map I saw, the exact area where the fire happened stood out to me like a sore thumb compared to the rest of the state. Add to that high winds, low humidity, and a ridiculously low dew point, and well.....
2 Fire friends of mine in the area said there is no schooling they've ever received that explains 10 acres to 90,000 acres in one day.
The TV station I saw online showed a hellacious canyon that was consumed in the bottom with smoke, from the aerial view there is no fighting the fire in that Canyon besides by air.
My son hasn't sent any information, not even sure if he has a staging area for the fire crews.He unfortunately, between last and this year, has had a sharp learning curve with these big fires. PG&E made a radio announcement about possible outages on Wednesday ( I am 99% sure it was Wednesday I heard this) and I am surprised at the possible coincidence. And yes, this area, from where I am up to the northern border, has been declared extremely dry and before the wind Thursday they cautioned this could happen.
I went and saw my son filling a drill to finish the last 180 acres of his farming boss' operation yesterday ( I am copying a PTO driven sprayer system they have, needed to verify valve locations), one hour later he was called to strike team, and another hour later he was in Chico.
Very sad, he said he saw the vehicle with folks trapped inside!!!!
My son and his family had a harrowing experience trying to evacuate. Stuck in bumper to bumper traffic with fire on all sides, family van getting hot, kids screaming.
You can [bleep] off with the California hate that I read above. These are real people regardless of politics.
Thankfully, my son's home was spared. Hell, we just built it last year so it's a huge blessing. Meanwhile, the beautiful town of Paradise is in smoldering ruins.
My son and his family had a harrowing experience trying to evacuate. Stuck in bumper to bumper traffic with fire on all sides, family van getting hot, kids screaming.
You can [bleep] off with the California hate that I read above. These are real people regardless of politics.
Thankfully, my son's home was spared. Hell, we just built it last year so it's a huge blessing. Meanwhile, the beautiful town of Paradise is in smoldering ruins.
So glad to hear everyone and their property is safe. Give those grandkids a huge hug when you have a chance!
Damned terrible stuff. I thought my day was bad and been feeling sorry for myself (and cussing central Cal) for being stuck in 99 traffic for hours today and a pink slip from a well-intentioned but absolutely incorrect CHP officer. Now I have read this. Sorry for folk's trouble. Hope your friends and families are safe. Dang.
I'd also add that lack of moisture played a HUGE part of this fire... I've read from more than one expert that the *soil moisture* in Butte County is amazingly, HISTORICALLY low right now and that was a major contributor. The GIS map I saw, the exact area where the fire happened stood out to me like a sore thumb compared to the rest of the state. Add to that high winds, low humidity, and a ridiculously low dew point, and well.....
2 Fire friends of mine in the area said there is no schooling they've ever received that explains 10 acres to 90,000 acres in one day.
Absolutely duck911, lack of rain leading to low soil moisture, combined with a decent spring and good early growth of brush/ grassy fuels has a whole lot to do with the recurring fires. Usually our fire season has run its course by now, not this year. Our area is actually somewhat lucky, in that we got about an inch of rain in October. But I'm within 50 miles of the OR border or so and most of the moisture is staying well above us this fall even. Dew Point here yesterday at 1355 was -1 with an 11% humidity level. I'd say it was dry and good conditions for a fire.
And you're friends are correct. My wife was stunned this evening when they gave the acreage figures. She's a CA native and has seen a bunch of fires too. Jarbo Gap had a 70+ MPH gust this morning before the winds died down some. Must have been like turning the blower on in the forge.
Geno
PS Thanks Jim
PPS this was last year, my very first girlfriend's house in Oroville. She'll have friends in the Paradise area who are now affected. She was extremely lucky they saved her house...........and flag. Her friends might not be so lucky.
My nephew lost his house in Paradise, we have not found out about his in-laws yet. A lot of people were upside down on the value of their house in this area.
Thanks, but I said something stupid yesterday and deserved to be called out on it.
I have been out of state for the last week and really didn't comprehend the magnitude of this firestorm until I drove back into California last night and saw the monstrous smoke cloud that engulfed me as I came through Red Bluff...I was stewing with anger since the results of the election showed that Gavin Newsom is our new governor and anticipating the horrendous results of that. I had no right to bring that into this thread...
I've lived through two recent evacuations and the fact that my brothers are a Sheriffs deputy, a CHP and my son is involved in every one of these monsters should temper my political beliefs with some basic human decency. That region of California is actually very conservative, all of I-5 up there is lined with John Cox for governor signs.
I just watched my first news coverage of the fire this morning, all I can say is that I feel horrible.
Once again, I apologize and my heart aches for the victims of this horrendous event.
Thanks, but I said something stupid yesterday and deserved to be called out on it.
I have been out of state for the last week and really didn't comprehend the magnitude of this firestorm until I drove back into California last night and saw the monstrous smoke cloud that engulfed me as I came through Red Bluff...I was stewing with anger since the results of the election showed that Gavin Newsom is our new governor and anticipating the horrendous results of that. I had no right to bring that into this thread...
I've lived through two recent evacuations and the fact that my brothers are a Sheriffs deputy, a CHP and my son is involved in every one of these monsters should temper my political beliefs with some basic human decency. That region of California is actually very conservative, all of I-5 up there is lined with John Cox for governor signs.
I just watched my first news coverage of the fire this morning, all I can say is that I feel horrible.
Once again, I apologize and my heart aches for the victims of this horrendous event.
I understand why you are frustrated. Like I mentioned in a different thread Sal, you're going to be dealing some serious ptsd if you don't get yourself out of there, or wrap your head around something besides the political situation. Sorry for everyone affected by that terrible fire.
What I want to know is how much of this damage and life loss is California’s Pacific Gas and Electric going to be held accountable for. If the electric company starts a fire of this magnitude are they held liable like a citizen is?
I think PG&E is running scared. I have received 4 texts and three robo-calls advising me of power loss and evacuation advisories in my area. I live in Gallatin County, Montana, have a 406 area code and was shoving the snow off of my walks when I received one of the robo-calls. CP.
What I want to know is how much of this damage and life loss is California’s Pacific Gas and Electric going to be held accountable for. If the electric company starts a fire of this magnitude are they held liable like a citizen is?
They recived approval last year to pass the huge costs of settling the lawsuits on to their customers.
What I want to know is how much of this damage and life loss is California’s Pacific Gas and Electric going to be held accountable for. If the electric company starts a fire of this magnitude are they held liable like a citizen is?
They recived approval last year to pass the huge costs of settling the lawsuits on to their customers.
So, yes and no.
And if I'm not mistaken, the day before/the day of the fire PG&E was warning about possible power cuts before they had issues, as the forecast was for high winds in those areas. My wife and I commented that they were likely covering their asse(t)s.
My take on this aspect, just like the lack of funding for proactive fuel reduction programs, the power transmittal companies have known about the problem for quite a while and perhaps not done as much as they might have been able to. Right of way maintenance costs money, eats into profit, and is probably fraught with regulatory/legal issues due to the number of different property owners the transmission lines cross.
Bad news just now is death toll up to 23...............they found 14 more fatalities today.
Fire still only 20% contained. Over 100K acres too. Winds supposed to pick up again also.
Just terrible. I know nothing of Paradise but driving today from Sac up Donner the amount of brush is insane, and right up to the structures. Mostly no defensible space, none-whatsoever. A tinderbox.
Here in New Mexico, Jemez Electric Co-op was found liable for a large fire in the Jemez Mountains (the name escapes me now - several years ago) They didn't trim trees that could fall on their lines -EVEN THOUGH SAID TREES WERE OUT OF THE CO-OP EASEMENT !!!!! WTH - that would be like me cutting trees on adjacent neighbors' properties, because they MAY fall on my fences. F'n liberals in this state - no wonder so many injury cases wind up here - jury shopping !!!
Hope the fire folks stay safe and they can at least keep the fire from growing much until conditions get a bit better.
Those of you with friends, relatives, and loved ones in the area, fighting this thing, or affected in any way.......... hang in there. And pray for rain to get here soon.
My son's new home was spared. Situated on 40 acres at the head of a canyon we had carved his homesite into the side of the ridge. Big defensible space and thankfully we'd put in a high pressure watering system to spray his shop, water tank, and surrounding grounds. He's off-grid so before they frantically left he fired up the back-up diesel generator and turned on the sprinklers full bore. Worked great until the water tank melted, but his home was spared.
That foresight saved his home while so many others lost everything. It's heartbreaking. Such a nice town totally destroyed.
I just watched a video of son filming as he drove his property. It's stark, still smoldering. Dead squirrels in the road. A fox standing in the road burned. It happened fast
My son's new home was spared. Situated on 40 acres at the head of a canyon we had carved his homesite into the side of the ridge. Big defensible space and thankfully we'd put in a high pressure watering system to spray his shop, water tank, and surrounding grounds. He's off-grid so before they frantically left he fired up the back-up diesel generator and turned on the sprinklers full bore. Worked great until the water tank melted, but his home was spared.
That foresight saved his home while so many others lost everything. It's heartbreaking. Such a nice town totally destroyed.
I just watched a video of son filming as he drove his property. It's stark, still smoldering. Dead squirrels in the road. A fox standing in the road burned. It happened fast
I am most thankful your family was spared, but it's also great to hear the good news about his home. This has been heartbreaking watching this unfold.
My son's new home was spared. Situated on 40 acres at the head of a canyon we had carved his homesite into the side of the ridge. Big defensible space and thankfully we'd put in a high pressure watering system to spray his shop, water tank, and surrounding grounds. He's off-grid so before they frantically left he fired up the back-up diesel generator and turned on the sprinklers full bore. Worked great until the water tank melted, but his home was spared.
That foresight saved his home while so many others lost everything. It's heartbreaking. Such a nice town totally destroyed.
I just watched a video of son filming as he drove his property. It's stark, still smoldering. Dead squirrels in the road. A fox standing in the road burned. It happened fast
I am most thankful your family was spared, but it's also great to hear the good news about his home. This has been heartbreaking watching this unfold.
+1 to this sentiment Morewood.
Reminds me I have to budget for the 1200 gal tank for our place next spring. We also have a big cleared area around the place so perhaps in the event something comes up here we'll get lucky also.
In kind of a reverse of the old saying....when it comes to fire, its better to be good than lucky.
Dont make your house a looser.
very true. sometimes it can get so tough that one can't hardly fight fire with fire. i think Cali is getting some of those conditions.
when so much damage accrues, whose fault was it? Mother Nature, the feds, the un, the state, the city/county, the homeowner, the insurance company, the fire dept?
what if it ain't nobody's fault? so, it defaults to Mother Nature? would that be a fair assessment?
Sounds like two of my mother's high school friends are still on the "unaccounted for" list.
Both lived in areas absolutely destroyed by the fire, and one supposedly didn't have a car. I am guessing there's next to no hope for that one.
I suspect the death count is going to be in the hundreds, when it is all said and done.
T,
Dude, that sucks for your mom's friends. I hold out hope for miracles.
Like you I'm guessing well over 100 minimum. I kinda know the area and there's a lot of little places stuck back in the bush in areas like that. When the authorities are finally able to get in to them, there's likely to be more fatalities found.
In kind of a reverse of the old saying....when it comes to fire, its better to be good than lucky.
Dont make your house a looser.
As some of you may know, we live in timberland. BLM is 100 ft to the West, 900 ft to the North. We knew that when we built. Fire is our number 1 through 100 concern and it was when we first bought our property and then built our house. Our house is Hardi Plank sided and metal roofed. We have no wood decks, 7000 gallons of underground water storage, 4 large pressure tanks, a 5 hp booster pump and three locations around the house to run an 1.5" fire hose. Good cleared space to the north, south and east. Large fire pond below the house to be used by helicopters (and which has been uses as such for other fires) I continue to thin through our forest that border those cleared areas and will continue to do so. Our concern is with our BLM border. We approached them several years ago with the proposal to treat an acre (200' x 200') to a pre commercial thinning. The BLM forest was harvested in the early 1970s and was subject to natural regeneration. In other words, thin out all of the smaller and non commercial trees and leave all of the larger mature trees and then to limb those up about 20 ft. I proposed to do all of the work or to pay someone that BLM would contract with. The response, it could take at least 3 years to do an Environmental Assessment and even after all of that, there was no certainty that it would be approved. So while we continue to be "gooder", we will never turn down some luck.
In kind of a reverse of the old saying....when it comes to fire, its better to be good than lucky.
Dont make your house a looser.
very true. sometimes it can get so tough that one can't hardly fight fire with fire. i think Cali is getting some of those conditions.
when so much damage accrues, whose fault was it? Mother Nature, the feds, the un, the state, the city/county, the homeowner, the insurance company, the fire dept?
what if it ain't nobody's fault? so, it defaults to Mother Nature? would that be a fair assessment?
Mother Nature can be devisitating. However, fires are needed. Lighting strikes in heavily wooded areas etc....
My take on this situation in California is the states bull spit regs, tree hugger, bug lovers are at fault for the last 40 years.
I hunt the areas that have burned and may very well get burned. I’m keeping my fingers crossed it doesn’t happen.
If you have not been up into the Sierra Nevada forests, Butte county, Yuba County, placer county.... you would see see that it’s only a matter of time before it’s hell on earth.
I literally have hunted dead fall for miles, 6’ tall....... logs, sticks, a foot plus of pine needles. it’s a nightmare waiting to happen.
I blame the tree hugging voters and government.
It’s only a matter of time until hunting zone d3-d5 burn. And that time is getting close.
If the fire jumps Lake Oroville, and gets going it’s going to be bad.
I propose the state send prisoners to start clearing out the forests of dead fall if we can’t burn, log or clear cut. Let inmates earn their hot cot and 3 meals a day. And send these liberals back to the states they came from.
The continuity of fuels is what causes these things to happen. It was just a matter of time.
Well, that's maybe part of it, but the #Campfire has been sending burning embers up to 5 miles ahead of the fire. So a 100 yard wide fire break may help, but won't always solve the issue. In fact, they're thinking it could jump Lake Oroville, which seems like it would be a decent fire break being a massive body of water, but the wind will carry the fire....
My aunt and uncles house is just south of Forest Ranch, and right in the crosshairs. Fire has been flaring up and jumped the containment line dozers cut in last night. Doesn't look good for their beautiful home and their 80 acres of pristine Blue Oak habitat - one of the remaining few native tracts of that type in the area.
In kind of a reverse of the old saying....when it comes to fire, its better to be good than lucky.
Dont make your house a looser.
very true. sometimes it can get so tough that one can't hardly fight fire with fire. i think Cali is getting some of those conditions.
when so much damage accrues, whose fault was it? Mother Nature, the feds, the un, the state, the city/county, the homeowner, the insurance company, the fire dept?
what if it ain't nobody's fault? so, it defaults to Mother Nature? would that be a fair assessment?
Mother Nature can be devisitating. However, fires are needed. Lighting strikes in heavily wooded areas etc....
My take on this situation in California is the states bull spit regs, tree hugger, bug lovers are at fault for the last 40 years.
I hunt the areas that have burned and may very well get burned. I’m keeping my fingers crossed it doesn’t happen.
If you have not been up into the Sierra Nevada forests, Butte county, Yuba County, placer county.... you would see see that it’s only a matter of time before it’s hell on earth.
I literally have hunted dead fall for miles, 6’ tall....... logs, sticks, a foot plus of pine needles. it’s a nightmare waiting to happen.
I blame the tree hugging voters and government.
It’s only a matter of time until hunting zone d3-d5 burn. And that time is getting close.
If the fire jumps Lake Oroville, and gets going it’s going to be bad.
I propose the state send prisoners to start clearing out the forests of dead fall if we can’t burn, log or clear cut. Let inmates earn their hot cot and 3 meals a day. And send these liberals back to the states they came from.
What you note is part of the changing wildfire environment. We have had hundreds of thousands acres of very productive forest lands burn within 50 miles of us over the past 5 years. On private lands, trees killed by the fires are often logged and are on their way to the mill before the fire is totally out. On USFS and BLM land (lots of both in Southern Oregon) it can take several years or more to get through the environmental and administrative process to put their trees up for sale. By then, the bugs are in the trees, they aren't sold and within 5 to 6 years they become dense deadfall. This creates a great fire environment and a very dangerous firefighting environment.
The continuity of fuels is what causes these things to happen. It was just a matter of time.
Well, that's maybe part of it, but the #Campfire has been sending burning embers up to 5 miles ahead of the fire. So a 100 yard wide fire break may help, but won't always solve the issue. In fact, they're thinking it could jump Lake Oroville, which seems like it would be a decent fire break being a massive body of water, but the wind will carry the fire....
My aunt and uncles house is just south of Forest Ranch, and right in the crosshairs. Fire has been flaring up and jumped the containment line dozers cut in last night. Doesn't look good for their beautiful home and their 80 acres of pristine Blue Oak habitat - one of the remaining few native tracts of that type in the area.
S**T, sorry to hear that, I hope it doesn't turn out to be the case.
Have experienced the blown embers thing myself, it's never not scary.
The continuity of fuels is what causes these things to happen. It was just a matter of time.
Well, that's maybe part of it, but the #Campfire has been sending burning embers up to 5 miles ahead of the fire. So a 100 yard wide fire break may help, but won't always solve the issue. In fact, they're thinking it could jump Lake Oroville, which seems like it would be a decent fire break being a massive body of water, but the wind will carry the fire....
My aunt and uncles house is just south of Forest Ranch, and right in the crosshairs. Fire has been flaring up and jumped the containment line dozers cut in last night. Doesn't look good for their beautiful home and their 80 acres of pristine Blue Oak habitat - one of the remaining few native tracts of that type in the area.
My buddies and family lost everything in paradise and now, my moms property, south of Lake Oroville, in Palermo is not in immediate danger, yet.
If the fires jump and winds fuel the fire.......
I guess there is no safe space in regards to natural/untural disasters.....
If you live on the west coast, flooding, fires and earth quakes.
If you live in the mid west it’s flooding earthquakes and tornados.
In kind of a reverse of the old saying....when it comes to fire, its better to be good than lucky.
Dont make your house a looser.
very true. sometimes it can get so tough that one can't hardly fight fire with fire. i think Cali is getting some of those conditions.
when so much damage accrues, whose fault was it? Mother Nature, the feds, the un, the state, the city/county, the homeowner, the insurance company, the fire dept?
what if it ain't nobody's fault? so, it defaults to Mother Nature? would that be a fair assessment?
Mother Nature can be devisitating. However, fires are needed. Lighting strikes in heavily wooded areas etc....
My take on this situation in California is the states bull spit regs, tree hugger, bug lovers are at fault for the last 40 years.
I hunt the areas that have burned and may very well get burned. I’m keeping my fingers crossed it doesn’t happen.
If you have not been up into the Sierra Nevada forests, Butte county, Yuba County, placer county.... you would see see that it’s only a matter of time before it’s hell on earth.
I literally have hunted dead fall for miles, 6’ tall....... logs, sticks, a foot plus of pine needles. it’s a nightmare waiting to happen.
I blame the tree hugging voters and government.
It’s only a matter of time until hunting zone d3-d5 burn. And that time is getting close.
If the fire jumps Lake Oroville, and gets going it’s going to be bad.
I propose the state send prisoners to start clearing out the forests of dead fall if we can’t burn, log or clear cut. Let inmates earn their hot cot and 3 meals a day. And send these liberals back to the states they came from.
What you note is part of the changing wildfire environment. We have had hundreds of thousands acres of very productive forest lands burn within 50 miles of us over the past 5 years. On private lands, trees killed by the fires are often logged and are on their way to the mill before the fire is totally out. On USFS and BLM land (lots of both in Southern Oregon) it can take several years or more to get through the environmental and administrative process to put their trees up for sale. By then, the bugs are in the trees, they aren't sold and within 5 to 6 years they become dense deadfall. This creates a great fire environment and a very dangerous firefighting environment.
Not always the case, locally we had a fire two summers ago and salvage sales went through this past spring/summer, logging started, and then the lawsuits started. If not mistaken, the judge allowed logging to continue while the suit goes through instead of granting an injunction.
One for the good guys I guess. Wish they all could go that way.
You're mostly right about the way they go usually.
Yes. During training we were told that about 1 mile is the upper limit for a fire brand.
I have personally seen them at 4 miles. Still red hot and the size of a base ball.
Yes, when schit really gets bad, the fuel is going to burn. I have never seen an area ignition, but I have been around some blow ups. Nearly always because of a Foehn wind event or a cold frontal passage.
Trouble is that the firestorm rarely got started as a chimney fire.
A person just about has to live like the fire department does not exist, because when schit gets really bad.....it wont.
Heavily wooded and densely suburban areas are just another fuel type.
Its too late when it becomes a fire storm, but it didn't have to become one.
In kind of a reverse of the old saying....when it comes to fire, its better to be good than lucky.
Dont make your house a looser.
very true. sometimes it can get so tough that one can't hardly fight fire with fire. i think Cali is getting some of those conditions.
when so much damage accrues, whose fault was it? Mother Nature, the feds, the un, the state, the city/county, the homeowner, the insurance company, the fire dept?
what if it ain't nobody's fault? so, it defaults to Mother Nature? would that be a fair assessment?
Mother Nature can be devisitating. However, fires are needed. Lighting strikes in heavily wooded areas etc....
My take on this situation in California is the states bull spit regs, tree hugger, bug lovers are at fault for the last 40 years.
I hunt the areas that have burned and may very well get burned. I’m keeping my fingers crossed it doesn’t happen.
If you have not been up into the Sierra Nevada forests, Butte county, Yuba County, placer county.... you would see see that it’s only a matter of time before it’s hell on earth.
I literally have hunted dead fall for miles, 6’ tall....... logs, sticks, a foot plus of pine needles. it’s a nightmare waiting to happen.
I blame the tree hugging voters and government.
It’s only a matter of time until hunting zone d3-d5 burn. And that time is getting close.
If the fire jumps Lake Oroville, and gets going it’s going to be bad.
I propose the state send prisoners to start clearing out the forests of dead fall if we can’t burn, log or clear cut. Let inmates earn their hot cot and 3 meals a day. And send these liberals back to the states they came from.
What you note is part of the changing wildfire environment. We have had hundreds of thousands acres of very productive forest lands burn within 50 miles of us over the past 5 years. On private lands, trees killed by the fires are often logged and are on their way to the mill before the fire is totally out. On USFS and BLM land (lots of both in Southern Oregon) it can take several years or more to get through the environmental and administrative process to put their trees up for sale. By then, the bugs are in the trees, they aren't sold and within 5 to 6 years they become dense deadfall. This creates a great fire environment and a very dangerous firefighting environment.
I hear you. However, I have seen trees burned, burned hot, and continue to thrive....
If you not familiar with the 49er fire.... everything grew back heath and beautiful..... it was a couple of years but you can’t tell there was a fire....... fire is a good thing unless people lose their lives.
Trees are resilient, they can get burned. It doesn’t kill them.
Very sad news, hope the Gal's made it out somehow. My son called early this morning before starting his shift, the area he is at is very short staffed , is all I can relay. He said one trailer park had houses burned to the ground, and homes next door didn't seem to have any heat or burn damage. I guess that is typical. One car in a parking lot burnt, cars next to them didn't catch fire. Very scary for a lot of folks.
Palermo seems from my searches way south of the fire, didn't it get evacuated last fire season? We have friends that grew up in Palermo and sold their place 3 or 4 years ago and moved closer to Oroville, and said they didn't get evacuation notices but headed north to Redding just to get out of the smoke.
Sorry for those folks affected, that was a amazingly fast moving fire. Some of those folks didn’t have a chance, just little to no advanced warning.
I got my yellow card last spring, I managed to get my shelter deployed in 30 seconds in perfect conditions. Not something I ever want to try on real fire.
My parents live directly across from Bille Park and they've been told there house and some around them were not burned, but they have not been able to get back up there to verify,
mom said the fire was 8 miles wide coming towards Paradise, pretty scary for those involved, they were warned about 8:30 am and they left there place a little after 9:00 and it took them over 4 hours to drive down the Skyway to Chico normaly a 25 min ride, a lot of good people have lost everything, continue to pray for the folks they have a long road ahead of them!
It's hard to wrap your head around this much destruction.... beyond sad!
I have gotten news mostly from radio. The poor folks that lost everything but maybe their car and clothes they're wearing. Heartbreaking. Hopes for those affected.
It's hard to wrap your head around this much destruction.... beyond sad!
I have gotten news mostly from radio. The poor folks that lost everything but maybe their car and clothes they're wearing. Heartbreaking. Hopes for those affected.
Definitely bitter sweet....My sister inlaw was communicating with a first responder friend on Facebook that is working the fire and he just sent this photo of my parents house
Yes. During training we were told that about 1 mile is the upper limit for a fire brand.
I have personally seen them at 4 miles. Still red hot and the size of a base ball.
Yes, when schit really gets bad, the fuel is going to burn. I have never seen an area ignition, but I have been around some blow ups. Nearly always because of a Foehn wind event or a cold frontal passage.
Trouble is that the firestorm rarely got started as a chimney fire.
A person just about has to live like the fire department does not exist, because when schit gets really bad.....it wont.
Heavily wooded and densely suburban areas are just another fuel type.
Its too late when it becomes a fire storm, but it didn't have to become one.
Good luck California.
This post can’t be over-emphasized enough! As I’m planning my build up north in a temperate rainforest no less where forest fires aren’t as mich of a concern as other areas I’m planning my own fire suppression/prevention approach. One thing I learned is that the same company that makes my downriggers also makes my hydrant wrench. 🙄
My parents live directly across from Bille Park and they've been told there house and some around them were not burned, but they have not been able to get back up there to verify,
mom said the fire was 8 miles wide coming towards Paradise, pretty scary for those involved, they were warned about 8:30 am and they left there place a little after 9:00 and it took them over 4 hours to drive down the Skyway to Chico normaly a 25 min ride, a lot of good people have lost everything, continue to pray for the folks they have a long road ahead of them!
Ackleyfan,
I got married in Billie park!
And Valsdad , thank you, my friends are alive, healthy and doing fine.......
My parents live directly across from Bille Park and they've been told there house and some around them were not burned, but they have not been able to get back up there to verify,
mom said the fire was 8 miles wide coming towards Paradise, pretty scary for those involved, they were warned about 8:30 am and they left there place a little after 9:00 and it took them over 4 hours to drive down the Skyway to Chico normaly a 25 min ride, a lot of good people have lost everything, continue to pray for the folks they have a long road ahead of them!
Ackleyfan,
I got married in Billie park!
And Valsdad , thank you, my friends are alive, healthy and doing fine.......
irfubar it's a small world, my parents say it's still popular for weddings and such!
I am so sorry for the loss these people have suffered. I was in agreement with Sal about California politics and didn't think what my statement would mean to folks actually affected by the fire.
This destruction is hideous. I am at a loss for words. My brother was going to Chico this Wednesday and had to cancel last minute. My good friend and old platoon sergeant lives outside of Marysville and would have been swept away if the Oroville dam had let go. Living was easy in California for the longest time. This stuff is sobering.
23 pages worth..... Based on the current suspected numbers of destroyed structures, the final report would be near 300 pages, so this is very initial in scope.
All of Maxwell Dr. is gone, so my good friends house is no longer standing - his address is on the list.
Gov. Jerry Brown said California is requesting aid from the Trump administration. President Donald Trump has blamed "poor" forest management for the fires. Brown told a press briefing that federal and state governments must do more forest management but said that's not the source of the problem.
"Managing all the forests in everywhere we can does not stop climate change," Brown said. "And those who deny that are definitely contributing to the tragedies that we're now witnessing, and will continue to witness in the coming years."
Per FOX news....
What in the holy fugg kinda crack are these stupid ass-holes smoking?
"Managing all the forests in everywhere we can does not stop climate change," Brown said. "And those who deny that are definitely contributing to the tragedies that we're now witnessing, and will continue to witness in the coming years."
One of the lamest comments I've heard from the moron. The clown is brain dead.
In my estimation, both Trump AND Brown don't have a real solid understanding of the challenges of the urban/wildland interface, unique Butte County geography, and the additional multiple compounding issues (lack of precip, soil moisture, native chaparral, etc) that contributed to this fire.
Not to mention, probably PG&E azzhats.
There is no magic bullet. But those dipchits have LITERALLY NO CLUE.
ETA: I mean "dipchits" in relation to this issue. (Actually, I mean Brown as a dipchit in relation to ANY issue.......)
I'm heading up there tomorrow to stay in son's off the grid house until they reopen the town to the public. There have been reports of looters and that ain't gonna happen on my watch. I'm bringing a husky chainsaw, a quadrunner, dvd's, a kindle full of books, and a magnum 870.
For my entire life, I've been a hunter, shooter and strong second amendment supporter. I raised a hard core first responder that follows my beliefs. The recent election that put into charge California's most radical anti gun, anti hunting, most socialist liberal as governor changed me. Most here have seen my anguish for years.
I apologize for my brash outbursts, but this is a turning point.
I hate to admit my hate, but I hate those that have been systematically destroying my lifestyle.
They ban my trapping. They ban my hunting with hounds. They ban my mountain lion hunting. They ban my lead bullets. They ban my lead fishing weights. They ban my coyote contests. They ban or restrict so many of my firearms. I have the most expensive vehicle registrations in the nation. The most expensive gas prices. They tax me to death. They implement strangling regulations, permits and licensing on me. I'm forced to accept the most abhorrent lifestyles or be labeled as xenophobic, homophobic, racist or sociopathic.
These idiots are my enemy. Excuse me if my anger and hatred of these liberal idiots offends you....I'm not changing to pacify you, and I'm F'n pissed.
In my estimation, both Trump AND Brown don't have a real solid understanding of the challenges of the urban/wildland interface, unique Butte County geography, and the additional multiple compounding issues (lack of precip, soil moisture, native chaparral, etc) that contributed to this fire.
Not to mention, probably PG&E azzhats.
There is no magic bullet. But those dipchits have LITERALLY NO CLUE.
ETA: I mean "dipchits" in relation to this issue. (Actually, I mean Brown as a dipchit in relation to ANY issue.......)
Excellent post. Those two aren't the only ones that don't understand the nature of the beast that is a chapparal fire. Especially in that area.
"Logging" ain't gonna fix it.
Geno
PS, not only a "dipchit", but his Moonbeam moniker fits to a T
I'm heading up there tomorrow to stay in son's off the grid house until they reopen the town to the public. There have been reports of looters and that ain't gonna happen on my watch. I'm bringing a husky chainsaw, a quadrunner, dvd's, a kindle full of books, and a magnum 870.
Good on ya!
In the Calfire presser at 6PM tonight, they reported "66 suspicious calls" that law enforcement responded to in the burn area since the event started. ZERO arrests. (Seems hard to believe there have really been no shenanigans requiring an arrest..... but maybe everyone is understanding the gravity of the situation)
If you end up around Maxwell Dr, Storybook Lane, or 10 Mile House Trail, my family, friends and I appreciate your presence!
I was born and raised in Chico. Ran all over the hills in the burn area, Feather River Canyon, and those foothills killing anything and everything that moved.
Chit - My freshman year at Chico State was the best three years of my life! I love the geography, and I love the wildlife. It is, in my estimation, the most beautiful state in the country, except perhaps Washington state. (both suffer the same cancer)
But 3 days after I graduated I made a conscious decision to accept a job and start a new career anywhere but Cali.
Was tried in San Diego County in the 70's I believe, to try to maintain firebreaks so they didn't need dozing every few years. Use the goats to keep them cleared. Not sure why the program didn't last very long. And sometimes them dang goats (at least the little one we had years ago) get "untactical" and show a preference for avoiding certain brush species. I think a chain gang following behind the goats to yank out what they didn't eat might work though. (probably cruel and unusual punishment )
I still think there'd be some benefit to them in certain areas. But someone's gotta come up with the scratch to pay the goatherd to run his animals there. (He'd likely be an immigrant too, a "brown person" to boot)
Money, the everlovin' concern.....................................no one wants to come up with it.................unless it's for their favorite special interest.
Next year..............or the following...........or in five years there will be a worse fire, here or in another State.
I was born and raised in Chico. Ran all over the hills in the burn area, Feather River Canyon, and those foothills killing anything and everything that moved.
Chit - My freshman year at Chico State was the best three years of my life! I love the geography, and I love the wildlife. It is, in my estimation, the most beautiful state in the country, except perhaps Washington state. (both suffer the same cancer)
But 3 days after I graduated I made a conscious decision to accept a job and start a new career anywhere but Cali.
I guess I could leave my wife with the mortgage on this place. Buy a trailer, as in camp trailer, and find a cheap plot in the desert in AZ. Sell a few "toys" to finance it, as I'd likely get stuck with half the mortgage by the courts.
Probably stay for a while, until I can convince the wife to leave..............................maybe.
Oh, besides, my wife makes really good living, I guess I could tell her to give up her job.
I CAN trap. I CAN mountain lion hunt. I CAN shoot with lead bullets. I CAN fish with lead fishing weights. There are NO restrictions of my firearms. My vehicle registrations ARE reasonable Gas prices are in the bottom third of the nation. Taxes are WAY better than California, and middle-of-the-pack nationally
The urban liberal centers of Boulder and Denver will may eventually take control, but right now it's a great place to live and 100x better than California. If or when the time comes, I'm fuggin' OUTTA HERE.
It’s easy to say move but it’s a lot tougher when you have family ties that go back generations and elderly parents that can’t move. My wife and I have 5 more years before we can escape this state and what it’s becoming but it’s not that easy for everyone. I’d leave now but we’re not uprooting our children and the lifelong friendships they’ve developed nor are we going to interrupt their studies which are producing straight A’s for their hardwork. I can live anywhere as long as I’m with my wife and family, even in a van down by the river. Some guys have such a deep respect and love for their spouse that they’d do anything to be with them even if it means living in liberal hell, I’m one of those guys. We live rural and have conservative neighbors so we’re not inundated daily with liberal BS even if this state is fugged up by liberals. Liberalism spreads like a disease so if you live in a red state now you just might not always be so lucky. 😉
Amen to that. I sure don't mean it to sound like I got it all figured out. Not I. However, I saw an opportunity and capitalized on it. Greener pastures and sure don't feel stuck anymore. Looking ahead I just hope it stays that way. I like the general "way it is" here and didn't there (Portlandia) ....
I was born and raised in Chico. Ran all over the hills in the burn area, Feather River Canyon, and those foothills killing anything and everything that moved.
Chit - My freshman year at Chico State was the best three years of my life! I love the geography, and I love the wildlife. It is, in my estimation, the most beautiful state in the country, except perhaps Washington state. (both suffer the same cancer)
But 3 days after I graduated I made a conscious decision to accept a job and start a new career anywhere but Cali.
Free will, and all that....
Voted #1 party college in playboy magazine a couple of times.
Pg&e sent out statement that power may be off due to high winds and fire danger. The next day a “incedent” happend and was reported by pg&e at 6am(don’t quote me on the time frame) and 30-45 minutes later the fire was reported.....
I'm heading up there tomorrow to stay in son's off the grid house until they reopen the town to the public. There have been reports of looters and that ain't gonna happen on my watch. I'm bringing a husky chainsaw, a quadrunner, dvd's, a kindle full of books, and a magnum 870.
Right on Morewood.
I'll ground sluice a looter or two if'n you need back up.
Death toll hit 29 yesterday.
I'm a bit surprised at how low it is so far, as Paradise has always had a ton of elderly retired folks.
What do you do 30,000 people that have lost their homes? Yet I'm sure in a week the California government will happily take caravan after caravan of illegals.
In my estimation, both Trump AND Brown don't have a real solid understanding of the challenges of the urban/wildland interface, unique Butte County geography, and the additional multiple compounding issues (lack of precip, soil moisture, native chaparral, etc) that contributed to this fire.
Not to mention, probably PG&E azzhats.
There is no magic bullet. But those dipchits have LITERALLY NO CLUE.
ETA: I mean "dipchits" in relation to this issue. (Actually, I mean Brown as a dipchit in relation to ANY issue.......)
lol,
Trumps fault for not understanding some niche enviro hazard in California!
From the vids I see on the news, the bunny huggers let heavy fuel grow right up to homes and roads.
Tough lesson being learned here on creating defensible space...…...and it's nothing to do with global warming.
Originally Posted by MontanaMarine
Truly a nightmare scenario for those caught in it.
More tragic because some sensible fuels management could have greatly reduced the loss of lives and property.
MM,
Not only "bunny huggers". As has been pointed out by others on this thread already, it's a fairly conservative area, especially by CA standards. Folks like to live in those areas to get away from the 'burbs and unfortunately too many like to see the wildlands right outside their property lines.
As soon as someone figures out "sensible fuel management" and more importantly a sensible way to fund it we may be able to get right on that. I've never in 50+ years of seeing these fires rip through sections of N, S, and Central Cali seen a really sensible, fundable way to manage manzanita, chemise, chapparal, poison oak, scrub oak, and scraggly gray pines. Few in power want to fund efforts towards fuel reduction in non merchantable, unprofitable, scrub lands.
Yes, there are some marketable trees involved in these fires, and yes, the "bunny huggers" protest and sue every time someone suggests logging, or even thinning brush, but my take after the aforementioned experience of living in many areas of California is that the funding is just not there to do a proper job.
The ultimate responsibility usually falls on the landowner to have defensible space around their property. I know in our area the firefighting resources will attempt to save a house that has a large cleared area around it (in other words one they CAN save) rather than wasting precious time and effort on a losing cause with brush and trees right up to the house.
Roadsides are another story altogether, many times responsibility falling on cash strapped rural counties with limited resources for keeping the brush down. Their right of way sometimes only extends a few feet from the road edge too, so their not going to keep it cleared 15' either side anyway. I cut the grass and weeds an extra 10' past what my county sprayed this spring just as a precaution to add to the firebreak of 30+ feet closer to the house. Their 8'-10' sprayed area didn't look substantial enough to me.
From the vids I see on the news, the bunny huggers let heavy fuel grow right up to homes and roads.
Tough lesson being learned here on creating defensible space...…...and it's nothing to do with global warming.
Originally Posted by MontanaMarine
Truly a nightmare scenario for those caught in it.
More tragic because some sensible fuels management could have greatly reduced the loss of lives and property.
MM,
Not only "bunny huggers". As has been pointed out by others on this thread already, it's a fairly conservative area, especially by CA standards. Folks like to live in those areas to get away from the 'burbs and unfortunately too many like to see the wildlands right outside their property lines.
As soon as someone figures out "sensible fuel management" and more importantly a sensible way to fund it we may be able to get right on that. I've never in 50+ years of seeing these fires rip through sections of N, S, and Central Cali seen a really sensible, fundable way to manage manzanita, chemise, chapparal, poison oak, scrub oak, and scraggly gray pines. Few in power want to fund efforts towards fuel reduction in non merchantable, unprofitable, scrub lands.
Yes, there are some marketable trees involved in these fires, and yes, the "bunny huggers" protest and sue every time someone suggests logging, or even thinning brush, but my take after the aforementioned experience of living in many areas of California is that the funding is just not there to do a proper job.
The ultimate responsibility usually falls on the landowner to have defensible space around their property. I know in our area the firefighting resources will attempt to save a house that has a large cleared area around it (in other words one they CAN save) rather than wasting precious time and effort on a losing cause with brush and trees right up to the house.
Roadsides are another story altogether, many times responsibility falling on cash strapped rural counties with limited resources for keeping the brush down. Their right of way sometimes only extends a few feet from the road edge too, so their not going to keep it cleared 15' either side anyway. I cut the grass and weeds an extra 10' past what my county sprayed this spring just as a precaution to add to the firebreak of 30+ feet closer to the house. Their 8'-10' sprayed area didn't look substantial enough to me.
Geno
That's too bad.
Around here woodstoves for home heating, and easy-to-get firewood permits help a lot. We lose structures too, but there is an emphasis from the local VFD, News, etc, for homeowners to create defensible space around homes, and specifics on how to do it.
The first day they couldn't even fight the fire as it was entirely an evacuation.
Not sure about official rankings, but that first day is likely the most explosive fire event growth I've heard of in Cali. It just happened to be in the foothills near a populated area.
I don’t mean to sound callous as I express my deepest sympathy’s to those who lost loved ones in these fires, and I can’t imagine losing everything I own to a fire like this. With that said though, California is a man made disaster waiting to happen and has been for a long time. If you take into consideration how many people live there, all the geographical and environmental challenges (earthquakes,mudslides, droughts and fires) what other outcome can one expect when Mother Nature rears her head? Im actually surprised that any company offers home owners insurance in California. You have a state that’s in drought conditions for decades and yet people insist on building residential suburbs on mountain sides and in dense brush and timber with upslope and downslope hazards and zero defensive space.. Sadly this event will pass and just like in the past people will rebuild in the exact same locations and one day soon it will happen all over again. Watching those videos of people trapped in bumper to bumper traffic and the overpopulated human condition doesn’t even allow one to flee danger, pretty insane if you ask me, about the worst scenario I can imagine, needing to get your family to safety and you can’t even do that. These big fires have been occurring in California forever , like dating back to the 50’s. However the acreage burned means very little comoared to the number of structures and lives lost, those two have increased exponentially because of the population growth. Hell I watched a documentary awhile back about the water shortages and fights over water rights in California and these analyst were concluding that so much of arid California was never intended to have thousands and thousands of homes there with high demands for water yet they keep on building them and that at some point there would not be enough water for everyone. Once again, a man made disaster just waiting to happen!
Then when woodstoves are not legal for home heating, there is no incentive for citizens to gather firewood. The excess fuels along roadsides and around buildings is the first/easiest to harvest. The 'low hanging fruit'.
Instead of local gov's looking for money to hire someone to remove fuels, the people would do it for free if it could economically heat their homes, or even to supply a firewood business.
I was unsuccessful in getting to son's off-grid home for protection from looters. Our law enforcement friends decided it was too risky, access was clamped down and they don't want anybody in there except official rescue/fire/coroner/ utilities etc.
They've already arrested 4 looters and are on the lookout.
From the vids I see on the news, the bunny huggers let heavy fuel grow right up to homes and roads.
Tough lesson being learned here on creating defensible space...…...and it's nothing to do with global warming.
Originally Posted by MontanaMarine
Truly a nightmare scenario for those caught in it.
More tragic because some sensible fuels management could have greatly reduced the loss of lives and property.
MM,
Not only "bunny huggers". As has been pointed out by others on this thread already, it's a fairly conservative area, especially by CA standards. Folks like to live in those areas to get away from the 'burbs and unfortunately too many like to see the wildlands right outside their property lines.
As soon as someone figures out "sensible fuel management" and more importantly a sensible way to fund it we may be able to get right on that. I've never in 50+ years of seeing these fires rip through sections of N, S, and Central Cali seen a really sensible, fundable way to manage manzanita, chemise, chapparal, poison oak, scrub oak, and scraggly gray pines. Few in power want to fund efforts towards fuel reduction in non merchantable, unprofitable, scrub lands.
Yes, there are some marketable trees involved in these fires, and yes, the "bunny huggers" protest and sue every time someone suggests logging, or even thinning brush, but my take after the aforementioned experience of living in many areas of California is that the funding is just not there to do a proper job.
The ultimate responsibility usually falls on the landowner to have defensible space around their property. I know in our area the firefighting resources will attempt to save a house that has a large cleared area around it (in other words one they CAN save) rather than wasting precious time and effort on a losing cause with brush and trees right up to the house.
Roadsides are another story altogether, many times responsibility falling on cash strapped rural counties with limited resources for keeping the brush down. Their right of way sometimes only extends a few feet from the road edge too, so their not going to keep it cleared 15' either side anyway. I cut the grass and weeds an extra 10' past what my county sprayed this spring just as a precaution to add to the firebreak of 30+ feet closer to the house. Their 8'-10' sprayed area didn't look substantial enough to me.
Geno
That's too bad.
Around here woodstoves for home heating, and easy-to-get firewood permits help a lot. We lose structures too, but there is an emphasis from the local VFD, News, etc, for homeowners to create defensible space around homes, and specifics on how to do it.
I think it is a completely different fuel type. chapparal or brush, doesn't produce much of trunk, mostly stems 4-5 inches thick, one bush would take a long time to break down into firewood. then the schidt grows back in 3-5 years, even when burned off.
can't run through it, can't push it over, but is full of resin, burns hot and quick. its what killed the hot shots in yarnell.
not economic to cut or pay to cut, or use afterwords.
I'm no fan of CNN but they have a compelling interview of a nurse who barely survived the fire. A man on a bulldozer came out of the smoke and cleared a path saving lives. Starts at the 3:15 mark. Paradise Fire
My old BLM mentor told me to never go to California.
That's probably good advice. I heard 70 something local firefighters are on their way from the flathead volunteer stations. Fighting fires in November seems odd, but at least our crews know wildland fires.
This is so heartbreaking to watch my friends and family suffer and towns burn.
The amount of people displaced, the impact to Chico and surrounding areas, the death, and the destruction is just shocking.
Now it's a logistical nightmare; people left without medications, eyeglasses, they have no clothes, no transportation to get to work, if their work is even still standing, and water has to be boiled indefinitely. Officials are becoming very concerned of acute mental health needs as the numbness wears off and the realities set in.
My best friend is now looking to rent temporarily in Clear Lake until he gets his insurance squared away, then he is leaving California. My aunt and uncle got a $15k insurance check today to help them replace some things, but they will also not be rebuilding in Paradise. One friend of mine had his house spared - the only one standing for 2 blocks. There won't be utilities, services, stores, or a community for a long time. His property value may never recover in his lifetime. Does insurance cover that?
The amount of pets, livestock and wildlife killed, injured, and stranded is saddening.
This is California's Katrina, but worse. These people didn't HAVE a chance to plan. Evacuate. Collect belongings. Make an informed decision. Instead, if they weren't traveling 30 MPH or faster, their fate was out of their hands. It was THAT explosive.
My old BLM mentor told me to never go to California.
Not a bad piece of advice regarding firefighting Jim.
But come visit sometime for "fun". Stay away from the SoCal/Bay areas, Suctomento too. Visit the Redwoods, Monterey Bay, the Central Coast, Mt Shasta, maybe ( a big maybe as it can get crowded) the Gold Rush areas in the Sierra foothills, Death Valley, the Eastern Sierra has some cool places too.
And believe it or not, there's a few cool things in our area too. Look up Capt Jack's Stronghold and the Modoc war. A few "Injuns" did a pretty good job of holding off a world power's troops given the circumstances. Lava Beds National Monument is a pretty interesting visit too.
And even more shocking.....................................There's some nice people like me in Cali.
This is so heartbreaking to watch my friends and family suffer and towns burn.
Just a sad, sad week.
Sad faces here in my house too and we have no relatives in the area. Sometimes I wish I could do more to help, as in I wish I had a job to offer someone who has lost all.
Seems some of you AZ folks know about the same kind of fires as we have here in Cali. Couple of places I hunt remind me so much of where I ran around in SoCal as a kid. Impenetrable stands of brush. Unless one wants to follow javelina trails on your knees.
Seems in both states a number of fires get started in that stuff and work their way into the forested areas, then crown and get really big. But no one wants to pay to keep that brush knocked down around populated areas as it's a recurring need every couple of years if one expects to be successful.
Missing persons has skyrocketed to 300. Up from 130 yesterday. Hopefully most of those are just missed connections, but it's still bad.
I basically lived up there last year and the year before helping build son's dream home and got to know that little town. I loved it, a little slower paced, nice folks, the Kalico Kitchen chicken fried steak breakfast special, the old Ace hardware. All gone.
A huge chunk of the population was old folks living on social security in mobile homes. I've been in mourning.
Yeah, it's very sad to see so many people hurting. Our community has come together donating several semi truck loads of goods, for the victims of the fire. KCRA-TV along with the Red-Cross and others have helped come up with close to 1.25+ M. Donations are to be used for food and Motel Rooms. Prayers offered up for those in need.
The Smoke from the fires has the Air Quality at the poorest I've ever seen. Right now the AQI Air Quality Index is 329- Hazardous! You need an air mask N-95 if you are outside.
So sad to hear about Bandit. Bandit rolled back into town tonight with an escort from the Sheriff's Office and other local agencies. Take care.
"Camp Fire shooting: Officers kill wanted man inside California wildfire evacuation zone
Camp Fire Chico Butte County Officer Involved Shooting
REDDING, California – Multiple deputies were involved in an incident Thursday where a 48-year-old wanted felon was shot and killed after a high-speed pursuit inside the evacuation zone of the Camp Fire in Northern California.
Deputies began the pursuit after receiving calls about a suspicious person near a hardware store. Law enforcement inside the evacuation zone of the wildfire, which is the deadliest and most destructive in the state’s history, are on high alert for suspicious people and looters.
Thousands of first responders from across the country have descended on the area. Their primary task has been to assist in the disaster relief effort and keep the area safe.
“We’ve definitely been dealing with many other things, this is not something we wanted to be involved with,” said Butte County District Attorney Mike Ramsey, whose office is handling the investigation into the shooting.
Authorities are not yet releasing the identity of the man killed, pending the notification of his next of kin.
Ramsey didn’t give details about what the 48-year-old suspect was doing in the area, but he stressed he is not suspected of looting.
Nov. 15: The long, hard process of identifying the dead in California's deadliest wildfire
Nov. 15: Wildfire smoke brings world's worst air quality to northern California
The resident who alerted officers to the suspect's presence said he seemed to have been in the area for about three days.
No deputies were injured in the incident, but a Sutter County Sheriff’s office K9 was killed when deputies opened fire on the suspect. The man’s pit bull, which was in his car before getting out and attacking the Sutter County K9, was also killed.
Deputies from Shasta and Butte counties were involved in the shooting, as well as a Fish and Wildlife Warden. An officer from Sutter County, whose K9 was killed, was involved in the incident but did not open fire."
Very interesting story, it reads like the Pit and K9 might have been going at it while officers tried to end the attack...?
Very sad about the escalating death toll, I suspect it is going to continue rising as they search, and it is listed as 40% contained.
Still shocked, a week later and I knew it was gonna be bad.
Talked to a very old friend (40 years we've known each other) today. Her friends, I've met them years ago, had a house in escrow in Paradise, thinking on moving back to the area. Not likely to be standing now and they haven't a clue how that's going to work out.
She's on the side of the lake the fire jumped to, not under evacuation orders yet.
Her house is the one with the firefighters saving the flag I posted before. She's hoping she doesn't have to go thru it all again.
Sad to hear about the K-9 Cop. Did they kill the perp and his dog? (oops, previous poster and I must have been typing at the same time, thanks for the update)
You know I’m in the Bay Area hig, not very close to what’s going down. Oddly enough a small fire broke out here in sunol today just off of Niles canyon. Air quality here is pretty poor and all schools were closed for tommorow due that
Just a sad situation. I’m not familiar with the terrain but if it’s like much of California then the heavy rains that area has in the future will cause mudslides and sometimes more casualties.
My thoughts are with all those dealing with this terrible situation.
I was unsuccessful in getting to son's off-grid home for protection from looters. Our law enforcement friends decided it was too risky, access was clamped down and they don't want anybody in there except official rescue/fire/coroner/ utilities etc.
They've already arrested 4 looters and are on the lookout.
That’s just unfathomable to me, to have such a callous heart as to steal from the ashes of another persons life. My inclination would be to help my neighbors and try to ease their suffering, not to further that suffering. Looters, especially in cases like this, are the most despicable and cold hearted SOBs and deserve to be hung after a quick trial by their neighbors.
Just a sad situation. I’m not familiar with the terrain but if it’s like much of California then the heavy rains that area has in the future will cause mudslides and sometimes more casualties.
My thoughts are with all those dealing with this terrible situation.
Maybe a rock slide or two on Hwy 70, but not a big deal for the most part.
Butte County Sheriff Kory Honea says they found 8 more bodies Friday from a deadly Northern California wildfire that is only half contained. The death toll from the deadliest wildfire in the country in at least a century is 71. As the death toll rises northern California authorities say more than 1,000 people are now on a missing persons list but stressed that it doesn't mean they are all actually missing. Butte County Sheriff Kory Honea said Friday that a list that he released Thursday of 631 names has now increased to 1,011 names. He called it "a dynamic list" that will fluctuate up and down and urged the public to consult the list to see if their names are on it and let authorities know if they are OK
I was unsuccessful in getting to son's off-grid home for protection from looters. Our law enforcement friends decided it was too risky, access was clamped down and they don't want anybody in there except official rescue/fire/coroner/ utilities etc.
They've already arrested 4 looters and are on the lookout.
That’s just unfathomable to me, to have such a callous heart as to steal from the ashes of another persons life. My inclination would be to help my neighbors and try to ease their suffering, not to further that suffering. Looters, especially in cases like this, are the most despicable and cold hearted SOBs and deserve to be hung after a quick trial by their neighbors.
What do you think the odds are of them being dimocraps, Ace?
I was unsuccessful in getting to son's off-grid home for protection from looters. Our law enforcement friends decided it was too risky, access was clamped down and they don't want anybody in there except official rescue/fire/coroner/ utilities etc.
They've already arrested 4 looters and are on the lookout.
That’s just unfathomable to me, to have such a callous heart as to steal from the ashes of another persons life. My inclination would be to help my neighbors and try to ease their suffering, not to further that suffering. Looters, especially in cases like this, are the most despicable and cold hearted SOBs and deserve to be hung after a quick trial by their neighbors.
What do you think the odds are of them being dimocraps, Ace?
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