Whenever the subject comes up, certain posters have got to bash the NRA for not being perfect. They have posted six criticisms:

1. “Wha, wha, the NRA keeps soliciting me for funds, mailing me and calling me.”

2. “The NRA didn’t do (bleep) for my cause (doesn’t fight in New York, didn’t sue in Heller).”

3. “The NRA supported some gun control law in 1934.”

4. “The NRA supports ‘Red Flag” laws.

5. “I’d rather spend my money on hunting and reloading.

6. “I sent them my money for Life Membership and they stiffed me.”

Well, here are the answers to these concerns.

1. It takes money to succeed. If the NRA didn’t raise more money than the cost of the fundraising, it wouldn’t do it, moron.

2. The NRA puts its efforts where it thinks it can win. Perhaps that doesn’t include New York. But it’s won in a lot of other places. Like Kentucky just this week. Heller? They were concerned the effort would not succeed. They were wrong, just like any other organization is wrong from time to time. They reassess and go on.

3. It ain’t 1934, dummy. (You know who I mean here.)

4. The NRA believes that, practically, we’re either going to prevent mentally ill loons from committing mass shootings or there will be enough ire from the majority of the voters, who are not “gun guys,” that we’ll lose all. Makes sense to me. But the Red Flag laws would have to have due process, and not be based on unfounded allegations.

5. You’re a freeloader.

6. Get serious.

The NRA is pretty darned effective. When the overwhelming sentiment of .gov was to ABOLISH assault rifles in the 1990s, NRA got the law massaged to (a) grandfather all existing rifles, (b) only last 10 years, (c) outlaw nothing except cosmetic features of Ar15s and high-cap magazines, and (d) got the effectivity delayed so that, all during the 10 years, high-cap magazines could be bought very cheaply.

When background checks were overwhelmingly passed during the 1990s, NRA got it made instant, so you didn’t have to wait 30 days.

If you don’t like the NRA, did you ever think about contacting the field rep for your area and asking why they did something, or suggest what they should do. Aren‘t their names in the magazines?

You whiners and complainers remind me of all the loons who stayed out of the 2008 and 2012 elections because the “R” candidate wasn’t perfect and then complained about Obama for eight years.

So if you don’t want to support the NRA, the Libs will win and that’ll ultimately give you three choices:

1. Hide your guns. Don’t ever take them out to the range.

2. Forget your guns. Take up tennis or water ballet.

3. Ruby Ridge.

Good post.
Surprised at the bad info some of these guys are trying to spread. One of my favorites took place a few weeks ago, The clowns were quoting Michael Bloomberg publications as a reliable source for info about NRA activities. Gullible, foolish and wrong.

Phugg em. When they get gun control shoved up their azzes; laugh in their phugging faces

There’s already a way in TN for a judge to order someones guns be removed from their house based on potential danger to their self or others. More gun laws is not the answer. Believe whatever you like though .

Due process is for losers.

Return On Investment - envision the NRA as a publicly traded company: I wouldn't buy one share considering their lackluster performance over the decades. They'd be a penny stock outfit and the clown of Wall Street and Wayne LaPierre. would have been sacked a long time ago for his questionable leadership ability and playing fast and loose with the NRA's money.

n texan




https://www.nraila.org/articles/20150529/texas-passes-nra-backed-open-carry-legislation

Yeah, that's a pretty funny post. Given that just like a capitalist corporation, the NRA has its board of directors who make the deep decisions and are elected by the members (stockholders). Back to the playroom with the other children, you.

Good post IndyCA35. Everyone has their rationalization for freeriding.

Speaking of which, time to renew my membership.

I’m a member but not necessarily gonna renew

You're chit and you smell like it

I’ll send Steelhead up there to stomp a mud hole in your azz stone cold Steve Austin style.

You just order from amazon and keep phuggiing them Washington boys. Do your part for the dickface crowd.

bump fer tn

Keep it up and Renegade will tagaalong and they’ll unleash on you tag team - Bushwacker style.

You should let them Washington boys put the boots to ya Fast and free

If you like boys, I’ll let you go ahead

I'm going to keep supporting the NRA. Maybe not perfect but they must be doing something right when the libs attack them at every turn. They do that because NRA is effective and is a threat to them acheiviing there ultimate goal of disarming the masses.

Good Post!

You got it pretty well correct on each point. I will keep donating to the NRA, and all the others also. Membership numbers and money is what makes them all effective!

"Bashing the NRA"

Okay. The NRA can KMA. How's that?

anybody that owns guns should belong to the nra…….if all gun owners belonged, we wouldn't have the fight we have now...….bob

IndyCA35,

Good post.
Been a lifer for about 30 years and upped a few levels.
It never ceases to amaze the number of free loader gun owners that can find a thing or two that the NRA did or did not do.
It ain’t perfect, but it’s by far the best we have, and has been for a long time.

AMEN

Please explain as this sounds really stupid...

Dumbass.

Wife, girlfriend, friend, or family member can petition the court providing a written word or video of action or communicated language by a person they believe may be a danger to himself/herself others or the community.

The courts here in Oregon cannot immediately roll a State Police officer to the persons home after the petition has been presented to the court.

The courts has to provide a directive to the accused, allowing him/her time to find legal representation and present his side of the case to the court. Once that due process is completed. The judge will make a ruling based on both parties information. The judge can assign counseling, group therapy or confinement for a period of 72 hours mental hold...Or, the judge can dismiss the complaint if he finds it was brought with malice or intent to injure emotionally... iircc.

There is supposed to be a component in the paperwork that should the judge remove the firearms, the defendant must have an obtainable path to recovering his/her firearms...That’s How due process is supposed to work in Oregon. 😎

And to think we were just told that due process is for losers...

Liberals have repeatedly named their #1 enemy. It isn't the gun owner. It isn't the guy who spends his money on reloading stuff. It isn't the gun industry. It isn't even the other gun rights organizations.

It's the NRA.

And there's a reason for that.

nuff said!

Rocky Raab: On that point Rocky Raab you are absolutely right on!
The N.R.A. is NOT perfect but without them our Second Amendment Rights would have LONG ago ceased to exist in this country!
Anyone who decries, denigrates, denounces or fails to support The N.R.A. is lazy, selfish cheap, stupid, short sighted and self destructive.
And YOU can tell them I (N.R.A. Patron Life Member).
Long live the Second Amendment and the N.R.A.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

W4B is being sarcastic. You have already essentially came out in favor of Red Flag Laws. Regardless of the 2nd Amendment, these are unconstitutional because they violate Due Process. Thus, I don't know why you'd have a problem with what he said. The idea of Due Process coming AFTER the punishment essentially has been doled out is ridiculous. This plus the fact that Red Flag Laws have already been proven ineffective in the states that have them. It is obvious that these laws target lawful gun owners and not crazies. There are already laws in place that target mentally unbalanced folks, and these are not used and are thus ineffective-so let's pass more laws. The Red Flag Laws essentially target the tool and not the user. The user is the danger. More tools can be acquired and if the specific tool for mass murder is not able to be required, other tools can be substituted.

The whole idea of Due Process is to do things in a sequence and properly. This is an end run around it, if not plowing right through it. The people ultimately behind this have total disarmament in mind, not preventing mass murder. If you could find a way to study it, you'd find that the percentage of psychopaths amongst the population of politicians is far higher than the average population.

I wouldn’t describe it as “For Losers”. I would suggest that if you are NOT fully batschit crazy, and never plan on becoming crazy. Don’t make the biggest mistake many guys make...

And that’s date, fug or marry a crazy assed woman!.....It’s an almost guarantee that when the mad crazy love ends between you both...She will show you just how mad and crazy her hate can be for you by trashing your life temporarily with lies, made up stories of long suffered abuse, and portray you as an out of control, violent, gun freak who has verbally threatened to kill her the kids, and or both....

The Courts take this stuff very serious and will always error on the side of the plantiff using caution and worst case endings as a guide for the bench to secure weapons while the defendant is securing legal representation...Especially, if your crazy soon to be Ex is an excellent liar.

Use you head between your shoulders, not your Dick head when making decisions on who you think you will spend the rest of your life with....That fine Monkey meat you wanted so bad one day can become a Baboon Who’s gonna tear your dick and life apart. 😎

You’ve been warned....

That is why I asked for an explanation. Sarcastic...maybe.

I have never come out in favor of any law that would violate Due Process.

All the existing Red Flag laws i have seen involve Due Process.

I responded to Beaver10 and his example of how Due Process works in his state.

Any new laws that violate Due Process would be quickly ruled invalid.

Agree........gun control marches on yet the NRA execs continue to make huge salaries.

Say what you want but any off us would have lost our jobs a long time ago for producing the similar results.

thank goodness for the NRA. 6 million members (should be 10X) lets the left know we have clout as a group. without them the members here couldn't form a good circle jerk.

This is right on. And the original poster, IndyCA35, VarmintGuy, Rocky Raab and a few others posters hit the nail on the head.
I'm a life member and have been for decades. The NRA is not perfect, but, they are working for me. I financially support them to help save YOUR rights.

My gosh...ALL Red Flag Laws violate Due Process. The whole idea of "due process"...forget it, I already explained it.

Yes, W4B is being sarcastic.

Do you even understand that the person is the threat, not the guns or whatever other tool they choose? As far as "quickly ruled invalid", are you aware of how long it took for the SCOTUS to even allow a gun control case to be brought before them, not to mention how long the Heller case took to rule on? Besides that, why should an obviously unconstitutional law be passed in the first place? My High School Civics class taught us that any law that was unconstitutional was itself, illegal.

Did you read the post awhile back detailing how a gun owner had his arsenal confiscated on some trumped up charges, by the ATF and then had his guns returned to him? They were ruined. It wasn't neglect either. Supposedly the ATF had literally stored them in barrels of saltwater and when he talked about suing them they threatened to bring him up on other charges.

Why should you have to prove you are not guilty in order for your guns to be returned? They shouldn't be taken in the first place unless you are proven guilty of some crime. They shouldn't be taken even if you are deemed nuts by some court. Let the family or friends have them. Why should the government get them? And if you are so dangerous you can't have guns you should be locked up, not medicated into oblivion.

The government and the people who own the government are a much bigger threat than all these boogeymen. Quit reading the St. Louis newspaper and watching CNN or even Fox and just look at what is going on around you.

So what you're saying since compromise on our end is ok as long as the NRA supports it, correct.?

1934 NFA act is and was very pertinent to today's discussions.

Largely because had the NRA opposed it then we likely wouldn't be trying to fight to get suppressors removed today

The red flag laws are a huge issue. The simple fact that they are ok with forcibly taking someone's property before a court hearing where Probable cause can be established is rediculous.

In regards to mentally ill people. Let's go back to locking them away in places such as belvue and whispering Hills.


What you clearly sidestep is the fact that the NRA needs gun control to further their own money raising.

w4b is like the Big stick of the hunters campfire

Well...this is spot-on.

Getting to be a long day here, anyone made popcorn yet ?

Sucker born every minute

Idiots that hate guns are the same fools that voted bammer twice, loves Pocahontas, or AOC thinks that global warming is man-made and gonna kill us all.
They are looking for a reason we in America have freedom to own firearms and the NRA is easy to blame
.
good grief!

is that why you left California? The great gun laws

The NRA is not the 2A. You're confused. The 2A is a Constitutional Amendment guarantying the right to keep and bear arms. The NRA is a far right political organization that has been co-opted by Russia The NRA likely funneled Russian money to the Trump campaign, which is a violation of federal law. This is the subject of an ongoing investigation by Congress. The amazing thing is that the NRA leadership was seduced into complicity by Butina, who is now cooperating with the Special Counsel. What a bunch of fools, believing that Butina was actually involved in an actual pro gun group in Russia.

More and more Americans see just what the NRA is and isn't, which is why it's underwater in recent polls. I think the long term trend is negative, for good reasons. It will change or die, the sooner the better.

puzzy boy drops a nugget

No, dimbulb, that's not what I am saying.

Here's something that might surprise you. The youngest employee of the NRA in 1934 would be 106 years old today. Duh! The NRA didn't even get involved in legislation until the 1960s.
What "they" did in 1934 is irrelevant.

If the NRA is so ineffective, then tell me why our enemies are trying so hard to destroy the NRA. Governor Cuomo's attempts to get banks and insurance companies to boycott them come to mind.

Or perhaps you're one of our enemies.

Indy, the only enemy to the 2 a is you especially with your belief that "we have to do something to keep guns out of the wrong hands.

That belief is is fine until you think the best way to accomplish that is to infringe on gun owners instead of locking up the mental cases permanently

What kind of excuse di you have for the NRAs support of GCA 68

Isn't it odd that all those who dislike the NRA, love all the things that the NRA has done for gun owners??
Yeah, the ones who are not members--

As I have said time and time again, I am a Life member and have been since about 1998.

I am very critical of the NRA and how it is run, its proclivity to support cretins like Harry Reid, and its focus on raising money by selling insurance, etc. etc. I especially do not care for the way the board of directors is elected, meaning the way the nominating committee maintains the status quo within the organization. They have the organization by the balls in the same way the deep state has the federal government tied to a stake out back. It pisses me off to no end and I refuse to contribute any more money until they change that schitt up...just my way of applying pressure for change as I believe it should take place. Other tactics include active financial support for GOA---who gets a lot more done for the dollars spent.

I will admit, I do believe we're better off having the NRA than not having it at all---historically speaking...but there have been some especially stupid moves on the NRA's part in recent years and I think "regime change" and a revamp of the rules is in order.

Your probably too much of a schmuck to know the NRA drooped Reid like a sack of chit, after he sided with Obama.

NO DOUBT you're too much of a schmuck to have recognized at that time (and I mean long before the Obama debacle) that supporting any democrat at all would end badly. If a schmuck like me had it figured out back then, then WTF is wrong with YOU?

Dumbass.

The NRA is a single issue organization. Guns

Didn't know if you knew that with your head so far up your ass.

You do understand that Reid was very pro 2nd, right?

Nine US presidents have been NRA members. In addition to Ulysses Grant, they are: Theodore Roosevelt (IMO the greatest President), William Howard Taft, Dwight D. Eisenhower, John F. Kennedy, Richard Nixon, Ronald Reagan, George H. W. Bush (who resigned in 1995), and Donald Trump. Three US vice presidents, two chief justices of the US Supreme Court, and several US congressmen, as well as legislators and officials of state governments are members.

Reagan flip flopped and Bush 41 wimped out but IMO it's still the best thing we have to fight for us. No organization is perfect and neither is the NRA. What gripes me is NRA leadership on state and local levels. For instance in the city in which I leave near we have a NRA Board Member who puts in his resume when they have the elections that he goes on radio, has rallies, etc., when he is lying through his teeth. I have tried to expose this man but it's almost impossible to get these phonies out. The Eddie Eagle program could do so much for our country if the local leaders would push it.

I am not a wealthy man but I am a Benefactor member and each of my three grandchildren are Life Members. I'm trying to do my part. Thank you...Bill.

I've heard that excuse over and over. That's one of the ways they've made themselves less effective.

No way you'd come to that realization with your head so far up whoever's ass. :no grin:

So much misinformation and misunderstanding about the so called red flag laws. They have in essence been in effect forever.

If your wife or girlfriend is willing to sign an affidavit that you have or are abusive and have threatened to kill her or something and she petitions for a protective order, the court will grant an ex parte protective order. You won’t even know that it has been granted until they show up and serve you and tell you to pack your schit and get out or leave her alone under pain of arrest and a felony charge of violation of a protective order. As that it was an ex parte proceeding there MUST be a hearing within 14 days. During that time, you are to hire a lawyer and get ready for it. At that hearing you get to make your case and the court will decide if it is going to grant the protective order.

Now, while you have a protective order in place against you, you cannot own arms or ammunition. And the Lautenburg Amendment makes it a federal offense as well. They will last two years and can be extended. In the past police departments didn’t bother to go out and confiscate firearms from those subject to protective orders, but that began to change in lots of jurisdictions over the past few years.

This has been the law forever and you can bet your ass that it is abused in certain jurisdictions, but it has been the law forever. So, from a legal standpoint, I just don’t see red flag laws being that big of a deal. It’s basically a protective order and those have been around a long time.

Care to explain how supporting a pro gun congress and senate is an excuse? Don't swallow your tongue trying

Are you just pretending to be stupid?

You don't get a pro-gun Congress when you have a Speaker or Majority Leader who is a member of an anti-gun party. You should have figured this out back in the 90s.

Then again, maybe you're not pretending.

Dickhead; the NRA hasn't given any money to Nancy Pelosi ever. If your talking about Reed, he had an A rating at one time. So whats your point, other than trying to look like a dumbass?

Guess we're off the 1934 kick.

Now as for 1968...

In the 1960s, the people running the NRA (Franklin Orth was the president) decided to "make nice" with the liberals on gun control. They decided to go lightly on legislative stuff and move the NRA headquarters to Colorado Springs, and concentrate on training people to shoot in the Olympics. The ILA (NRA Institute for Legislative Actiion) run by Neal Knox, disagreed with this, as did many of us members. At the 1977 NRA annual meeting in Cincinnati, Knox and Harlan Carter organized a coup and KICKED OUT THE GUYS WHO HAD RUN IT SINCE 1968! The by-laws were changed to let members nominate directors by petition. The "Cincinnati Reforms" also adapted a "no compromise" position. And they didn't move to Colorado Springs to train Olympic shooters!

So you see, blaming the current leadership for anything that happened in 1968 is like blaming President Trump for something Obama did.

I repeat...Not only are our NRA leaders different people than in1968 but they KICKED OUT the leaders who were there in 1968.

Which is why we won the fights over registering ammo sales (got it repealed), "Saturday night specials," cop-killing bullets, the 1994 AR15 ban (which banned nothing at all), got about 45 states (starting in 1987) to pass "shall issue" concealed carry laws, got background checks to be instant instead of making you come back to the store a week later, got about 45 states to pass pre-emption laws (which, among other things, threw out Cleveland's handgun registration law), lost Al Gore the presidential election, lost the Democrats the House of representatives in 1994 for the first time in 40 years (according to Bill Clinton, that was the NRA's "fault"), and helped us in ways you can't even imagine.

Can't even imagine? Here's one. Our club bought 80 acres out in the country. The local farmers obkjected to the noise and tried to get an ordance passed banning shooting. The NRA sent a guy out with a dB sound measuring device. Guess what? They would have had to ban trucks on the Interstate a mile away. Duh. 20 years later the club is still shooting there.

So if anyone wants to rationalize not paying their fair share, find some other reason to bash the NRA.

IndyCA35
Benefactor Member
National Rifle Association of America
Second Amendment Task Force, 1994

I am a member which gives me all the right to bitch about how they continue to support the squandering away of our rights


Pray tell.me just specifically what the NRA has done for gun owners. And making compromises is doing good

The NRA was blamed for gore and Kerry's loss

They sure try hard, but when they get their asses kicked, were terrorists

Good on ya' for being a member. If there;'s something you don't ike, that gives you the right to espress your views to them and their local reps.

What specifically has the NRA done for gun owners? Just read my post directly above yours.

We all have things we'd like them to do that, for various reasons they are not doing, or they're doing something else. Ao pay yer dues and tell 'em what you want done!

You're stupid as a box of dogshiit, aren't you? You could have a very sharp point driven right up your ass and never know it. I'd sooner explain celestial mechanics to my dog.

Dumbass.

So you have nothing else? BTW are you dyslexic?

...and ever since, the establishment within has been working to undermine and reverse the Cincinnati reforms. The establishment is there and it maintains its stranglehold via the nominating committee. Too much like the RNC to suit me.

GFY. Seriously.

So what's the excuse for current NRA leadership endorsing red flag laws and the ban on bumpstocks? It's all relative

That's lie you know that right? You claim to be a member but I have my doubts.


https://www.reuters.com/video/2017/10/08/nra-opposes-outright-bump-stock-ban?videoId=372694588

https://www.nraila.org/articles/20181221/nra-statement-on-bump-fire-stock-rule

https://bearingarms.com/tom-k/2017/10/12/nra-opposes-bipartisan-bump-fire-stock-ban/


https://finance.yahoo.com/news/latest-nra-disappointed-bump-stock-ban-210052225.html

https://apnews.com/c502e176975e4089bcfab98174936e53

Those all came out AFTER they were initially for it you [bleep] bozo.

Geezus. You really are the bigStick of the freakshow

You're wasting energy arguing with this douchebag if you think you're going to make an impact...all you're making is a happy troll.

your putz trump banned em by executive, don't wipe your twat with the NRA flatfoot.

You just wanna put your head im lap ain't it?

I wonder if trump is impeachable for an illegal executive order? I'd support that. Maybe pence would take notice.

I wrote the NRA a hand written letter around 1980 as a member imploring the leadership to take the issue to court and please to please quit this legislative BS because we already have a 2nd amendment. They haven't written back yet. I didn't renew my membership then and the only reason I'm a member now is because a relative gifted me a life membership. I am sure they'll get around to replying to my letter any day now.

dick head listened to everyone but the NRA

LOL...LOL


https://bluenewsnetwork.com/new-bil...o-call-supervisor-before-drawing-weapons

Go to the bedroom and open the secret drawer. Now GFY

Well, here are the answers to these concerns.

1. It takes money to succeed. If the NRA didn’t raise more money than the cost of the fundraising, it wouldn’t do it, moron.

2. The NRA puts its efforts where it thinks it can win. Perhaps that doesn’t include New York. But it’s won in a lot of other places. Like Kentucky just this week. Heller? They were concerned the effort would not succeed. They were wrong, just like any other organization is wrong from time to time. They reassess and go on.

3. It ain’t 1934, dummy. (You know who I mean here.)

4. The NRA believes that, practically, we’re either going to prevent mentally ill loons from committing mass shootings or there will be enough ire from the majority of the voters, who are not “gun guys,” that we’ll lose all. Makes sense to me. But the Red Flag laws would have to have due process, and not be based on unfounded allegations.

5. You’re a freeloader.

6. Get serious.

The NRA is pretty darned effective. When the overwhelming sentiment of .gov was to ABOLISH assault rifles in the 1990s, NRA got the law massaged to (a) grandfather all existing rifles, (b) only last 10 years, (c) outlaw nothing except cosmetic features of Ar15s and high-cap magazines, and (d) got the effectivity delayed so that, all during the 10 years, high-cap magazines could be bought very cheaply.

When background checks were overwhelmingly passed during the 1990s, NRA got it made instant, so you didn’t have to wait 30 days.

If you don’t like the NRA, did you ever think about contacting the field rep for your area and asking why they did something, or suggest what they should do. Aren‘t their names in the magazines?

You whiners and complainers remind me of all the loons who stayed out of the 2008 and 2012 elections because the “R” candidate wasn’t perfect and then complained about Obama for eight years.

Very entertaining but sad. If you take a couple of steps back and read this it becomes apparent, very apparent that the NRA did nothing to stop the infringement, but instead gave its members a softer fall.
Fact:..................if you are required to fill out a form, pay for a certificate, or any other check required to own a gun, then you DO NOT have the "RIGHT" to own it. What you have is a "PRIVILEGE" to own it. So stop with this [bleep] rights [bleep], that is pure propaganda, brainwashing at its finest.
If it is your God given right, then you do not have to pay for it or ask permission, period.

Some of the Founders as well as some of our ancestors, died for this [bleep] rights [bleep]. I guess the Founders were engaging in brainwashing. Consider me brainwashed.

When most of the populace has been brainwashed and/or dumbed down to the point that they don't even know the Constitution or their "privileges", the rest of us may know, but we don't want to die. The Constitution doesn't grant you a damned thing. If you want to go along with the commies and disarm, you are welcome to do so. Many have already done so because they want somebody else to protect them and their families. Where I come from, that's a long way towards the definition of "pussy".

You think the people of New Zealand don't have the same right? They just don't rise up and demand the government recognize their inherent right to self defense and the tools to accomplish that end. The Constitution only recognizes that which is obvious. It's obvious that a person has the right to defend themselves and to have the means to do so. The Founders put it in terms of God and nature, but if you're an atheist or whatnot, it's all the same-just very obvious that nobody has the right to kill or maim you or yours. The Constitution negates itself. It admits that it grants NOTHING. All it does is recognize and you don't need a Constitution to do that.

I don't really care what's in the Constitution. I don't really care what everybody else thinks. I damned sure don't care what you think. I will defend my family and myself until I am unable to do so. I believe that's a God-given right. You can believe whatever the fuuuckkk you want.

NRA ALL THE WAY !


life member over 35 years, please support the NRA

I think you misunderstood me or my explanation sucked, heck, maybe both. " the right of the people........" has been undermined was my point. We now confuse right and privilege. RIGHT(S) , PRIVILEGE
The point is, what we call rights now are nothing more than a privilege, hence the "papers/certificates/permits" which generally requires an exchange of funds, something "rights" don't require.

There is no such thing as an unlimited right. Every right you can name has an exception and a case for suspension. What matters is what limitations are applied and to what degree.

As to bashing or supporting the NRA, answer me this: Without the NRA, would we now be enjoying unfettered gun ownership, or severe gun prohibitions? If you think it's the former, you are delusional.

If just 1/4 of all gun owners were members. The democrats would shut up. Hasbeen

SO TRUE !

NRA is far from perfect, but they are by far the best thing we have. Life Member here.

NRA members comprise more like 8% of all gun owners. Why? Because most gun owners hate the fear mongering of the organization, and are put off by La Pierre's rabid-dog-foaming-at-the-mouth BS. I guess most guys just aren't that into Buttina and other Russian spies, either. Guys, she's not hot.

NRA membership is a requirement at our hunting camps and many of us keep trying to implement it at the local gun club, too, but some VIP blowhards shoot it down every year. Freedom of choice is what they want and I say someday there may not be a choice.

I get neighbors and strangers stopping at the farm asking for permission to hunt and my first question is "are you a NRA member?" Some view it as being a hard arse, but I m sorry the NRA is one of the few obstacles between the Democrats and the repeal of the 2nd Amendment. Can't put all your trust in the Republicans.

At first it was a surprise, but after denying some individuals to hunt, some have came back with a NRA membership and asked again.

The people with Jim Jones drank the Kool Aid too.

I am a life member too. The NRA may be the biggest but are not the best.

If the NRA or the citizens hadn't caved on the NFA act in 1934 would we be in fear of our gun "rights" now?

If someone violates a Right, what happens? Is there not a law applied when someone violates a Right? So what is the need for an independent organization to police our Rights or to apply what limitations are needed and how to apply them?
I can and will defend my Right to own and use a firearm. Maybe more should follow suite. But I get it, dying for your or your children's Right to own and use a firearm isn't worth it, hence the need for a Gov. sponsored and approved organization.

Sigh. Another one.

Look, dimbulb, the NRA today wasn't the NRA of 1934. Do you understrand arithmetic? That was 85 years ago.

In 1934 the NRA didn't even think it's purpose was other than to improve marksmanship. It had no real legislative ideas and the ILA (NRA Institute for Legislative Action) and the PVF (NRA Political Victory fund) didn't even exist.

The NRA only started to get involved in legislative issues after WWII, when liberal politicians started pushing registration.

THANK GOD THE NRA DID!!

I'm with the NRA!!

There's nobody else out there taking it on the chin for us.

Yes Wayne Lapierre looks like a lobbyist in his custom suits. In reality he is a lobbyist. Every company in our country of any size has one. Every company of any size in the free world has one in our country. Every other outfit from National Organization for Women, Mothers against drunk driving you name it they all have one and a bunch are are against us and some of them for extremely unintelligent reasons. You want to talk to the government its how it's done.

Being a gun owner and not being a member of the NRA for the sake of 35.00 dollars a year is seriously unintelligent. I just renewed again for 5 years for 100.00 and I get a decent magazine because I got a coupon for buying a Weatherby.

Just my Opinion.

Good luck and shoot straight y'all

I like your attitude.

I belong to two gun clubs that require NRA membership as a condition of membership. The annual renewal application requires you to submit proof, a copy of the magazine mailing label or your membership card.

The NRA helped draft the 1934 law.. wasn't that involved in legislative issues?

Took the words right out of my mouth. Oh wait, that was then, this is now. Nothing done in the past has anything to do with the future. Any "dimbulb" knows that.

Hopefully, in the not to distant future, our club will do the same.

Reet.

The Justice Dept. used to watchdog civil rights and prosecute violators of individual's rights. I don't know of them EVER taking up a case of somebody's 2nd Amendment rights having been violated though.

Whining about what the NRA isn’t doing for you is like a rancher bitching about the color of his barn. The protection you get is way better than anything you would get without it...

NRA is the one that Congress pays attention to. I have used their guide when voting before also. If a couple candidates have similar qualities I will use it for a tie breaker.

Yes, but someone needs to fix the holes in that barn's roof, In fact a brand new roof might be advisable.
Most problems begin at the top

You seem like a smart person, are you saying you would leave your cows outside because there are holes in the roof?

When will the NRA whiners recognize that this is true and you have to forget what isn't perfect and gather around what is most effective.

I will repost what I said about this before and it is absolutely true...

It all depends on where you take your stand under that barn roof.
The farmer need a new paint job on his barn and you guys show with roofing supplies...

Seems the weather is getting to the cows the way the roof is now, repair is in order.

It's been said a horse will run back into a burning barn is this what is happing now

More like a dog returning to its own vomit.

I like this . No offense , but you are grey headed so I’ll shut up and listen . Plan to do a lot more of listening around here.

No, I believe what he is saying is, the roofers put holes in the barn roof and then said, hey, you guys need a roofer.

So if you don’t want to support the NRA, the Libs will win and that’ll ultimately give you three choices:

1. Hide your guns. Don’t ever take them out to the range.

2. Forget your guns. Take up tennis or water ballet.

3. Ruby Ridge.

There is #4. One you "forgot" to list, which is the VERY REASON and the SINGLE REASON the 2nd amendment was added to the Bill of Rights.

we won't even march, let alone fight....

Anybody that doesn't think marching on Washington would be interpreted by the powers-that-be as an act of civil war by the marchers and a modern day Fort Sumter, is woefully ignorant. Especially if the marchers were armed as has been suggested. An alternative would be agents provacteur planted amongst the marchers to disrupt things or even commit crimes in order to paint the gun rights advocates as the villains. As if the press couldn't/wouldn't just lie about it anyway.

M1 said we won't even march, let alone fight....

Sadly that's likely to be true.

So the large majority have surrendered already. They just have not had the guns demanded yet, but if they comply at the small levels they will not stand against the big moves of the left either.
That's the reason the left is acting in the "liberal" states Those states have a large majority of cowards and they have surrendered their children's freedoms already.
So it's just the "next step" in the acceptance of that surrender, not the 1st step.
It's nothing new.

I am unlettered, unlearned, heathen, etc. Can it be explained why the NRA-ILA is where the money goes. I know it supposedly supports favorable legislation. But isn't that defacto an admission that the 2nd Amendment doesn't apply to us as individuals. We don't need to be making it appear that we believe that. My problem is the waste of money and the seeming crisis that is constantly stirred which I think is nothing more than a shameless NRA/Lapierre money grab aimed at non critical true believers. I want my money used enforcing the 2nd Amendment. To the NRA cheerleaders, I am on your side for the right to keep and bear arms, but I am sad that our NRA and you are misdirecting our resources.

Hastings, sadly there is probably some money issues with the NRA. but up until a couple of decades ago they didn't have a constant battle with the anti 2nd azzwipes. who else has their clout?

That is how the anti-gun crowd sees it. The NRA is using our money to try to keep that from becoming the law of the land.




Protecting the 2nd is what the NRA is trying to do. Are they perfect at it? Definitely not, but they are the best horse that we as gun owners have in the race. Perfection for everyone is an Obama thought....... As someone mentioned, not backing the NRA as a gun owner is like a Republican staying away from the polls on election day and then griping about the outcome of the election and not accepting part of the blame for the outcome.

Please tell us how you'd go about completing the same agenda.

So sad and so true. That alone is the very reason many say they need the NRA.
It could be considered paid welfare.

I can't believe that a lot of gun owners are attacking the NRA when our gun rights are being attacked. Go figure. How many of you non NRA members , are members of other Pro 2nd amendment organizations ?

Every Democrat pissing and moaning how the terrible NRA keeps them from getting the gun laws they want and some of you guys say they do nothing. Must have some power if the dems don’t like em. I will stay a member. You do what you want. Ed k

What is this......you must belong to some organizations or you're a "dimbulb"!!
I am an entity unto myself.
Whatever happened to the thought of a "Freeman"?
The question should be how many are willing to stand up to any Gov. that attempts to take ones rights. That is the real question instead of this
machiavellian concept.

In case you haven't noticed; your rights have been under attack for quite some time. Why haven't you attacked?

Are you asking for help attacking, when you claim to be an entity unto yourself?

Anyone on here who isn't a member of a gun rights group, AND a fiscal supporter otherwise, is a clueless freeloading moron who doesn't understand what is at stake. The Second is the only thing keeping the rest of the civil liberties anywhere near intact, and that, kids, is the legacy that is our duty to pass on to future generations.
Kind of hard to withhold consent of the governered when the governors have all the guns, silly. Get after it, join GOA, SAF, NRA. I don't care which, but pull the effing wagon please.

Oh, and speaking of a march, there should be one. The first one, everyone brings a plywood silhouette of their fave. Not that hard to jigsaw something nice. Peaceably protest now. Not so peaceable later.

I would like to see my NRA putting its effort and money in lawsuits enforcing the 2nd amendment and saying we don't need any gun owner protection laws, because firearms ownership is a civil right. We need court cases like Heller and McDonald that affirm that right, and the money spent on the ILA could be used for that purpose. If anyone thinks we can beat back legislation in the thousands of cities, counties, states, or U.S. congress, think again. Public opinion is either apathetic or against us. When our rights are as enshrined in court decisions and precedent as other civil rights then whatever the lesser jurisdictions try to pass to the contrary would be as stillborn as would be a racially discriminatory law . Over 50% of the country is against us, we can't win any other way. That said, we do need to support presidents that appoint constitution friendly judges, but all this ILA seems a waste compared to the courts.

The NRA COULD be the spearhead of taking back the infringements that already exist. I and others on here have said for years that we should be in an all-out war in the courts and state, federal and local governments against current infringements. Instead we are constantly on the defensive. Going on the offensive, especially as far as information is concerned, really only takes a change in mindset, yet even here, where the most hardcore gun owners should hang out, we are not of one mind and thus, easily defeated. You have people who are so stupid, propagandized, brainwashed, or even are paid opposition, that they actually advocate for "sensible", "common sense" gun laws, Red Flag laws, "having the conversation", etc. They've been exposed to the truth for far too long for something not to be up.

I have noticed and have spent much of my life attacking in many forms, many forms mentioned and some that have not been.
So, if anyone wants to join with me that would be great, otherwise, I good with just me.

Your "I am an entity unto myself" attitude is why you spend your life feeling totally disenfranchised. The power of one is zilch, and you know that fact if there is more than just an air space between your ears........ Maybe Q will come to your rescue.

K22 y . At this time, I will use the NRA to help fight against the anti gun club. You are part of the problem, not the solution. Let me know how your fight goes by yourself.

So standing my ground without others is zilch? So it is group think that you prefer.

Even with all of your bashing, Q will come to yours also.

You truly don't have a clue about many things involving reality. But I guess the world needs martyrs.

Even I will be saved by Q? Should I feel......uh......special?

Sonny, the whole idea of the USA is protecting the rights of the individual against mob rule. That's why we have a representative republic and not a straight democracy. Standing alone against the tyranny of the majority is not just a time-honored tradition in the US, it's even a heroic archetype, or it used to be. If the individual believed in what was right and stood up for it, win or lose, he was considered a hero.

I'm neither a Q acolyte nor a martyr type, just explaining that which is evidently no longer taught or has not been understood by...the individual in question.

Self explanatory

Sonny, the whole idea of the USA is protecting the rights of the individual against mob rule. That's why we have a representative republic and not a straight democracy. Standing alone against the tyranny of the majority is not just a time-honored tradition in the US, it's even a heroic archetype, or it used to be. If the individual believed in what was right and stood up for it, win or lose, he was considered a hero.

I'm neither a Q acolyte nor a martyr type, just explaining that which is evidently no longer taught or has not been understood by...the individual in question.
[/quote]



So sayeth you:

Indeed unity is very important but we have to face hard facts;

1. All gun owners are not conservatives (or constitutionally minded)
I won't pretend to know how many are conservatively minded but it's a safe bet that maybe half are. Out of that number only 5 or so million are willing to devote time and money to the most powerful lobbying interest . I do believe there are quite a few socially minded people that are armed.

2. The NRA does not always get it right.
This has led to other organizations to crop up and people have joined and supported those entities. Does this make those people wrong? No it does not. The key is to unify all these folks under one flag, literally....Fixing the holes in the roof would be a big step towards this

I am a member. I occasionally send them a little extra. I don't like that they use my whole membership dues raising more money from me. But they do have political clout. They are the only one of the groups that do.

I don’t remember our forefathers being an entity onto themselves. Seems to me they got together and even got another foreign gov to help kick ass. Seems to me that one single bullet will get rid of someone by themselves. Opinions vary. Ed k
Also I’m not here enough of a badass to go it alone.

Second Amendment Foundation just gained another Life Member. That goes with my Life Memberships with Texas State Rifle Association, GOA, and yes, the NRA.

As a Life Member of the last organization I have every right---and in fact, a responsibility, to raise hell about poor leadership and tomfoolery.

Great post.

There is no doubt that a group will do more good than an individual. I think the point that K22 was making was that in lieu of any individual or group of whatever numbers assisting him, he was convinced of the righteousness of his cause and would go it alone rather than just bow to popular opinion. I know that's what I was saying.

That's right, we have a duty " to raise hell about poor leadership and tomfoolery". The ammunition in this battle is money, and if it is not being stolen it is certainly being misappropriated. That is money that could be used to great effect in making government subdivisions pay for their unconstitutional legislation. Wayne LaPierre needs to go. It is a sad state of affairs when a sizable portion of the membership is disaffected and they are basically dismissed as wrong or worse yet, stupid.

Its perfectly normal to bitch if you pay your money and you don't get what you expect in return. At the same time, you have to realize that when you simply send someone money, others may decide how best to spend your money.

If you haven't been a member since the 1980's except for the gifted membership, what gives you any right to bitch about how an organization spends someone else's money for the past almost 40 years? That's like sitting on your hands while others clap, but you expect to be heard.

Invalid observation...

Exactly!!!!!

Not much more I want to add to this, so I am done and will leave the rest of you to debate this. I will leave with this question. How many of you belong to an organization that tries to protect your 1st Amendment Rights? The Founders seemed to think that one was number one, instead of the 2nd Amendment.

You have a valid point. But like I said in a later post, "it is a sad state of affairs when a sizable portion of the membership is disaffected and they are basically dismissed as wrong or worse yet, stupid." I would gladly financially support NRA if the money was used effectively and I'll bet there are millions more of the same opinion.
P.S. Are you Wayne LaPierre?

P.S. No.

I'm just someone who send the NRA my money and then sits on my hands. Not....

When this many conservative people, gun owners, members, and former members are unhappy with the NRA's direction I would think they would pay attention.
That is unless they really don't care what we think, which does seem apparent.

"Send us money and we're happy, it ain't broke so we aren't going to fix it."

An audit and full disclosure would be interesting. For now I'll hang onto my money until things are cleaned up and headed in the right direction. I might need my funds to fight my own legal battle since you know who won't help. But those of us who live in states like Wyoming, Idaho, Montana,and the deep south will be the last affected. Our governor is a pro 2nd and pro life Democrat in a Republican dominated state so we are safe for now

Time for me to re-up. Last time I just paid the guy at the first weekend of the month gun show. The LAST thing I want is NRA this and NRA that showing up in my mailbox every friggin’ week in my neighborhood. And I don’t trust ‘em not to.

With a democrat anywhere in government of your state you are not safe. Look what happened in Colorado.

So, that raises an obvious question one that must be asked. Who's crazier, Jim Jones or Wayne La Pierre?

That's easy, Jim Jones is the crazy of those two. Wayne isn't crazy (or stupid). Check out what he has accomplished for himself. hasn't represented his followers too well, but at least he hasn't yet ordered mass suicide. Wayne is aware of these discussions and I wish he would join this discussion with so many actual and potential members.

I typed this in another thread and it bears repeating:

"Gun owners wouldn't be spitting on the NRA if they fought half as hard for the Second Amendment as the abortionists fight for abortion with NO LIMITS. Those baby-killers GOT abortion right up to birth and are fighting for post-birth abortion in the delivery room and they are winning. The equivalent for our side would be my ability to purchase ANY machinegun I can afford with NO LIMITS and the BATFE being told to f.uck off forever. Hell, the NRA couldn't get national concealed carry last year. I don't recall them kicking Chuck Grassley all over the Crapitol Building for sitting on that bill. Got it, folks???????"

Very good post.

Yep,
They spend my dues money on postage.


Begging for money.

They called a friend, begging.
Having had some medical problems that caused him to miss about half
of the last two years work, money was tight, as was humor.

He asked, "How much did Wayne give"?
The lady said excuse me.
"Wayne......LaPierre. You pay him millions, what did he donate? I can't work,
Am running up medical bills, you want $100 from me. What did Wayne give".

That was his last phone call.

My latest letter from the NRA says Cuomo is pressuring banks to quit doing business with the NRA. The letter claims that they will no longer be able to deposit our donations or make payments of any kind. Letter says the NRA will be shut down. Even the envelope states in big bold letters, "NOTICE OF SHUTDOWN".

Naturally, they need mucho donations right now to defend themselves from Cuomo and the evil bankers.

If this were to take place quickly, where would my donation go? How can Cuomo control every bank and credit union in the country? What about using banks in other countries?

If anti-gunners see this envelope screaming "NOTICE OF SHUTDOWN", won't that encourage them to action against us?

As Dillonbuck said, "They spend my dues money on postage." I am getting mail from them weekly, sometimes 2 or 3 a week plus phone calls!

I don't like to think about what our situation would currently be if there were no NRA, but I do believe the NRA needs a shake up in management and especially in the use of their resources.

Exactly. That's why I withhold further financial support. That is the only means I have to apply pressure.

Me too

I continue to be amazed at the utter lack of any human limitation to justify poor judgement/behavior.
A great many of the posts bashing the NRA are clearly fabrications. Fiction.
There is nothing out there doing a better job of defending the 2nd Amendment, and informing us about attacks on the 2nd Amendment, than the NRA.
For those that think the NRA inefficient with spending, compare that to what they are up against.... our government.

As a final thought, it's darn difficult to win a game in which your opponent has made up all the rules.

What you didn’t consider in your assessment is, there are only 5 million NRA members backing the NRA and there many millions more fighting for women’s right to choose, not to mention government funded organizations promoting abortion.

https://www.google.com/search?q=org...;oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari

Now consider the NRA fighting against all the same kind of people as the abortion activists in the realm of support that they have combined...

https://www.google.com/search?q=ant...;oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari

http://www.larrywillis.com/anti%20gun%20companies.html

Of course you won’t check out all the sources listed there because you are to busy bitching about the ineffectiveness of a small single organization that is fighting a huge battle with limited resources and a bunch of small minded gun owners that benefit from what the NRA has accomplished yet they won’t offer any support.

You guys need to get a better view of just how big that battle is against our gun rights and forget your petty differences with the only effective gun proponent that has any recognition on that battlefield...

HEAR, HEAR!

Shrap, you are 100% correct in your assessment of the situation and how critical it is, IMO. But, I do not agree that NRA is the only effective way to do battle.

I want the NRA to be lean, mean, and show up with a coherent, consistent message and gameplan. In my opinion, they've been foundering and there's no excuse for it. They've spread themselves thin and embraced bloat. I think a major overhaul is in order, but I don't see the leadership being amenable to that idea.

I didn't say the NRA is the only way, it is the only recognized with any clout. The NRA can only be fixed, (for the sake of argument, if it is really that far off course) from within, not from the outside heel nipping, whining masses that stand outside, looking in and benefiting from the work the NRA does accomplish...

If you think that the courts and the legislatures are going to protect your second amendment, you’re kind of missing the point in the second amendment.

Thank you for your post.

It will all probably fall on deaf ears owned by those individuals who have all of the answers about what's wrong with the NRA, complete with a "rationale" as to why they won't donate. But many will continue to bitch about something they have no stake in using someone else's dollar to do it, and they expect only positive results by hollering outside on the street when the meeting goes on inside. I'm not happy with everything the NRA does either, but we still have 2nd Amendment gun rights due to the long-time efforts of the NRA, so I will continue to support them, warts and all. Granted, the true meaning of the 2nd has been diluted over the past 250 years, but that is not the fault of the NRA. To blame them for it all is truly short sighted and myopic at best.

Ask Bill Clinton if the NRA is be an effective force speaking for gun owners nationwide when he would have preferred to strip away all gun rights during his tenure in the White House. A midterm election, with a voting agenda largely pushed by the NRA, directed him to sit down and shut up. Without the NRA, the main topic on this forum would be what kind of rubber bands works best for a long range sling shot.

To quote Hasting at his best: Are you Wayne La Pierre?

Shrapnel: I will repeat (because I think it is worth repeating!) that without the National Rifle Association "we" would have lost our Second Amendment Rights LONG ago!
I to, am puzzled, at the heel nippers, naysayers, ignoramus's, cheap bastards and contraries who attempt to bash the National Rifle Association!
The National Rifle Association definitely IS the most "effective way to do battle" with the anti-Second Amendment" zealots!
PERFUCKINGIOD!
Long live the National Rifle Association - needed now, more than ever.
I will be at the upcoming National Rifle Association banquet in my area next month in fact!
Already have my ticket.
Long live the Second Amendment.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

it still takes the NRA,GOA and others to keep the politians in line.i will dedefend my family as needed but this demo politians are nutts

I think every gun owner should carry some of the weight also, but I think they should support the organization they think represents their interests the best.

One of my major complaints against NRA is that even as a voting member, my influence is minimized by the by-laws and the Nominating Committee. I get to choose from among candidates selected by the committee only ( a write-in stands NO chance) and this committee therefore controls who may serve on the board. They have a stranglehold on the entire organization., and that's why reforms that need to be implemented won't take place.

If the NRA is the best we have in protecting gun rights we're in trouble and laws passed the last couple of decades proves that to be correct.

Idaho Second Amendment Foundation has done well for us here in Idaho the last few years and I don't recall anything from the NRA outside of an email professing a win that they had nothing to do with.'
Fact is the ISAF is not a NRA fan, now why is that?

Worship on faithful followers, even as your savior compromises away your rights because it isn't the right time, or we might lose, or god forbid we don't have enough money.
What a load of rubbish.

I'm sure that you'll have an uncontrollable urge to blame someone, so please don't immediately jump up and loudly blame the NRA if/when (God forbid ) the liberals cause the 2nd Amendment to fall apart. Blame the efforts of those who you invested money (and time?) with.

I don't recall any NRA marches to the Capital in Boise for gun rights, but several with the ISAF.

I don't blame the NRA for what gun owners have let them do or not do I blame people that let their rights slip away and not even bother to vote much less march in the streets.
NRA was a marksmanship and training organization before and should have remained so, we need someone or something to light a fire under gun owners so hopefully they begin to care about their freedom.
NRA isn't getting that done and still won't with double the membership or donations, they gonna do what they do, and are gonna keep doing it nothing more or less, unless changes and attitudes at the top change

I figure the NRA is like every other political lobbying organization in Washington, DC. Except they lobby for guns. To what degree do they play back door politics? Who really knows...They play games to generate cash flow/income for their bank account, sure they do.

It’s the NRA recognition that carries the weight of political influences, whatever that actually means, is up for debate. But it’s what you hear the Left screaming about on TV.

I just give the NRA money, same as I do for GOA, JPFO, and Oregon’s OFF group...It’s something and it’s a lot better than not doing anything. 😎

Very good post.

This discussion centers on the NRA, so that is the organization I've been supporting against largely non-member criticism. If you are truly involved in saving the 2nd, one belongs to far more than just the NRA. Whether they march or they don't is irrelevant in the bigger picture.

Not bashing you but what has the money sent done for gun rights the last five years or so Oregon?
it isn't working.

I agree with everything you've said. When it all comes down, the NRA really isn't to blame, it's the gun owners themselves. This should be one of the most hardcore pro-gun sites on the earth, but we can't even get everybody here to come out against Red Flag Laws, Universal Background Checks, Assault Rifle Bans, Bump Stock Bans, etc. If you could get most of these idiots on board, the NRA could be changed to the point that it was more effective and wasn't in agreement with a lot of these laws.

You can keep on whining, criticising and pontificating, the truth is you just don't get it. You people bitch about LaPierre making a bunch of money, and like a bunch of Democrats that don't like people making money, you continue to bitch.

Take a look at this picture, what don't you see?

You don't see K22 in that picture. He says he stands alone and fights for his beliefs. You can see how much help he is.

You don't see any GOA members with trump. They may have merit, I don't argue that, but they aren't in the picture.

You don't see Ethan Edwards with all of his answers in the picture, no one cares what he thinks.

You don't see a single Campfire whiner in that picture, because they don't contribute, they just nip at the heels of the NRA and NRA members while they bask in the warmth of the benefits the NRA produces.

The NRA is the recognized mouthpiece for gun owners rights in this country and that is why trump recognizes them and that is why the legislation brought up in Congress pays attention. Not whiners and other fringe groups, The NRA.

Get off your soap boxes and put your money where your mouth/keyboard is...

You can't even get all the yahoo's on here to agree that Constitutional Carry is good. It's a wonder we've got it in 16 states now.

But where is Shrapnel in the pic? Oops! I don't see him in the pic either. Probably was busy attending the Mitt Romney rally.

I am the NRA, what can you say about yourself?

The difference between you and I is that I don't say much about myself...Chuck.

You don't have time, you're to busy criticising others...

or the NRA

Certainly there are a lot of critiques worthy of making, but time isn't a factor. The difference is upbringing. You're a smart guy...or so you say. You figure it out...you know, for real and not just for an inaccurate deflection. Or not.

Excellent Post EE...To answer 700LH:
It’s beyond frustrating to watch state gun rights being taking away at unprecedented speed. Money giving can salve the consciousness of some, maybe many...And, that’s a good thing giving financial assistance to organization that are in the fight for 2A-both on state and federal levels....

I’m not sure this is a good example (analogy) of what I’m trying to say... I believe we need individuals with a strong voice of common sense and stead fast resolve that 2A and our ability as law abiding citizens that our choices to own a firearm no matter the color, attachment added, name of what it’s called, or what is used to fill it with cartridges, or where we can keep it or carry it, can’t be infringed upon by any state legislation or law.

Some people need a leader to follow- Someone or some organization that brings everyone together under one common banner to make it easier to stand as one against anti-gun laws....Thinking along the lines of the Civil Rights movement. MLK and his minions worked both politically and socially to gather very large groups of people to show Americans they wanted more....And it worked.

We need grass-roots leaders across the US to get people out of their chairs to stand with other like minded in view of the nation with the media taking in the numbers of law abiding Americans saying No! You will not take away, or legislate away our rights to own and carry a firearm. Full Stop!

We need to amass people across the nation in every city and state to show that we as gun owners will no longer be apathetic to anti-gun laws....I’m attending my first state rally this Saturday. I’m not going to get into a ruckus against the anti-gun protesters that will be present...I’m going to add myself as “1” more law abiding, gun owner who’s standing up to say no more.

We needs leaders! 😎

Thank you. I was a voting member of the NRA for a long time but never became a Life member, even though it would have saved me money. I could have even put donations towards that instead and have been a Life member a long time ago. The thing was/is I figured that if I paid for a Life Membership, I had absolutely no hold on the NRA since the purse strings seem always to be the only way to get anybody to listen.

I remember voting for board members and there were a few times that I even knew the guys. Many of them were wishy-washy types that made Mitt Romney or Jeb Bush look like fire-eating heroes of the Right. I know one guy personally who didn't make it onto the Board...and he is pretty well-known. He actually has a job with the NRA. IIRC it was back before the AWB sunseted and he was against "assault weapons". Unreal. IIRC so was Joaquin Jackson, semi-famous modern Texas Ranger who WAS on the NRA Board.

Unfortunately, it appears that insanity and mental handicaps are rampant amongst not only the general voters, but the subset of gun owners also. We are very handicapped by constantly having to fight our own fellows over stuff that should be pre-ordained. Nobody seems to understand that the enemy is laughing at us as they practice "divide and conquer" while we squabble amongst ourselves. To be Gus-like, amongst the humans currently eating the urth, normally the group is much more powerful than the individual, but sometimes the group is wrong and the individual is right and that individual just has to soldier on, being true to his principles, even in a losing battle.

Yep, great post. If you enjoy fiction written by losers.

If your not a member you are part of the problem. Politicians only see numbers of voters. Hasbeen

There is only one avenue to protecting our 2nd A rights. The federal courts, and getting it carved in stone that weapons ownership and possession is an individual civil right. If we pour money into fighting any other place, it is wasted. You can't fight all the blue cities, counties, and states any other way than U.S. supreme court decisions, and until that becomes the focus I'm sitting out.

We better pray that the guys Trump put on there are as good as some here think. We'll see.

I'm sure he appreciates your endorsement, comrade.

Then you’re sitting out until 2A has been legislated away in every state...You don’t see lawsuits going to the SCOTUS until a “Right” has been taken away unlawfully.

Then you’re betting that SCOTUS will affirm the US Constitution as it was written. Gonna be a lot of unarmed law abiding citizens waiting for these suits to make there way before the Supreme Court.

Don’t you think the SCOTUS values the currents of the people? Don’t you think if they see masses of Americans across the country standing together for the protection of 2A on State soil won’t be compelling while writing their concurring paper or a 2A dissent if we lose?

Sitting out makes you appear as one who doesn’t care enough to do any of the heavy lifting...Is that you? 😎

For me, the formation of the ILA in 1975 was the beginning of the end, when the rabid right drove the NRA off the rails. It was over for me. Neal Knox and his ilk co opted what was originally an organization dedicated to improving marksmanship, education regarding gun safety, and promoting the shooting sports into a lobbying organization that richly rewards its leaders and is toxic to our political discussions. I am not alone, as its favorability rating is underwater today. NRA endorsement now actually hurts a candidate's chances of being elected, mostly because it's seen as a radical fringe group more and more.

The NRA has some problems in addition to its declining reputation with voters. Specifically, it's ties to Russia and the 2016 campaign. Talk about stupidity, "patriots" being hoodwinked by Russian spies. From the Wiki:

Investigations by the FBI and Special Counsel Robert Mueller resulted in indictments of Russian agents on charges of developing and exploiting ties with the NRA to influence US politics. The deputy governor of the Central Bank of Russia, Aleksandr Torshin, is suspected of illegally funneling money through the NRA to benefit Trump's 2016 campaign. In May 2018, Democrats on the Senate Judiciary Committee released a report stating it had obtained "a number of documents that suggest the Kremlin used the National Rifle Association as a means of accessing and assisting Mr. Trump and his campaign" through Torshin and his assistant Maria Butina, and that "The Kremlin may also have used the NRA to secretly fund Mr. Trump's campaign."[82][83][84] Torshin, a lifetime NRA member who is close to Russian President Vladimir Putin, has been implicated in money laundering by Spanish authorities who have characterized him as a "godfather" in Taganskaya, a major Russian criminal organization.[85][86]

Butina was arrested on July 15, 2018 and charged with conspiring to act as an unregistered agent of the Russian Federation and using Republican operative Paul Erickson for cover and connections as she developed an influence operation designed to "advance the interests of the Russian Federation." The FBI acquired an email Erickson had sent to an acquaintance in 2016 stating, "Unrelated to specific presidential campaigns, I've been involved in securing a VERY private line of communication between the Kremlin and key [GOP] leaders through, of all conduits, the [NRA]."[87][88] According to the affidavit, from 2015 through at least February 2017, Butina worked at the direction of Russian who was a high level government official and official at the Russian Central Bank.[89][90][91] In December, Butina agreed in a plea deal to cooperate with federal prosecutors.[92][93]

In a 2018, in a letter sent to Sen. Ron Wyden and addressed to Congress, the NRA acknowledged it had accepted approximately $2500 in contributions from 23 Russian nationals or people associated with Russian addresses since 2015. In an earlier news interview the NRA's lawyers stated that the NRA had received less than $1000 from only one Russian donor. According to a Wyden aide, the NRA letter would be referred to the Federal Elections Commission.

Long List Of Lies Committed By The Former Homo-in-chief

You gun rights are secure without the NRA. It's a bullsh*t organization raising money by fear mongering and spending it on salaries and fund raising. It needs to die.

Long List Of Lies Committed By The Former Homo-in-chief

The 2AF and Alan Gura have shown a good bit of clout. This is undeniable. There have been moments of unity with them and the NRA and this must continue....

I'm going to think about what you're saying, your position is not without merit and I think in the end we want the same result. My deal is that we are fighting on too many fronts and not trying as hard as we can to take the most defensible hill on the battleground (SCOTUS). I am afraid we're going to end up like Custer at the Little Bighorn and get too spread out and then end up destroyed. My focus would be the presidency and the Supreme court. Remember my Custer analogy, he was spread out and wiped out, while the other 7 battalions took a hill and all the spare ammo and in a military sense won their battle. They survived and the enemy evacuated and retreated. If abortion rights and gay rights and housing rights can be inferred into the constitution the right to keep and bear arms is plainly written into it. If we can't win it there, we're out of business. I don't say your position is stupid, it is just not the way I would direct my efforts if I had the say so, and the only say so I have is my money and speaking my opinion. Respectfully yours

I appreciate your reply....We are all frustrated about the never ending attack from the Left on our gun rights. Here’s my take away and it’s actually quite true...Women mobilize when they want something. Aside from holding back the “Honey Hole” when angry at their spouse 😁

Women will organize, rally, go to meetings, have fundraisers, and make a lot of noise when they think change is needed.

Remember MADD? WAGV? Sarah Brady, wife of Jim Brady-The Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence? These are just a few of the organizations that were started by women.

Stay at home moms have Bunco night, cosmetics get togethers, you name it. Women will drag other women into their fight when pissed....Just say “Your kids are in danger” and they are all in on helping to change laws.

Do you actually think it was men who started the rallying cry to stop gun violence? Fug No! It’s the ladies who got this going...And, we all know they could care less what is accurate information about guns or violence. They don’t use guns. They don’t like guns. To them society doesn’t need guns....Take away all the guns except for a bolt action rifle, one revolver, and one pump shotgun, and that’s all anybody needs-If even that many guns in their opinion.

It would do us gun owners some good to take heed of the women and how quickly they organize and do likewise, but in an effort to show why responsible gun ownership is important, but just because you happen to fear something doesn’t mean you get to take away the rights of others....Responsible guns owners aren’t their enemy, but they don’t see it that way. So, we need to fight for our rights until it becomes finalized in very simple legal language that can’t be interpreted in different ways from SCOTUS. 😎

Your correct Beaver10 but gun owners have become so divided from all the propaganda is it almost if not impossible to agree as a group on just about anything, beyond we don't want to lose all our firearms..

^^^^^^^^ Thanks Shrapnel. Could not have said it better.

What you recommend, while desirable, will not work by itself. Why? Well, the SC ruled (Heller) that we had an indivitual right but also that it coule be "regulated." Accordingly, while reaffirming the "right to keep and bear arms," they have permitted confiscation of magazines, FFL fees for privatge sales, etc. Where does that end?

The way to win is to convince enough politicians that "I'm the NRA and I vote." That means more members. That means members who will politely communicate their views to politicians.