A few year's old but Ventura's take on the matter.

I don't much care what the jackass has to say. In my books he isn't a man and damned sure isn't honorable.

That... Only thing he did well was play "Blaine" in the movie "Predator"...

The nutcase shot the wrong guy.

Good ol' Jesse.

Kyle is a hero. Ventura is a douche. End of conversation.

Good people sometimes do bad things

Bad people occasionally do good things


Does indeed complicate life.

The Body does like to hear himself speak

He didn't even play the part of "Blaine" well. He couldn't wrestle worth a sh*t and he sure can't act. Add him being a lousy Governor and you have the complete package. What he did to Kyle's widow in his lawsuit was criminal IMO.

Taya went through hell as all combat wives do. Jessy is a spam fed jackass and attacked an innocent woman. It’s unlawful to print what I think about him.

I don't like or dislike Ventura - he is definitely out there

but Kyle lied to sell a book-, talking about being on a dome shooting looters during Katrina?

His story was good enough as the most decorated sniper to not have to put that craziness out there.

I hate to say it, but...

Aside from everything it all comes down to did Kyle defame Jessie for profit?

Someone break it down for me as I never got into all the Operator weeds of the whole thing.

Did he or didnt he, Kyle, defame Venture to make a buck?

1st Carlos Hathcock was the greatest Sniper of all time.

2nd Jesse Ventura was good for Minnesota and yes he did get a little crazy ,Jesse did win the court case 1st and will win again in the 3rd court case

3rd it is sad how Kris Klye how he died, but Kyle did lie in his book about Jesse ,his medals and probably some other stuff too.the movie made him look like a hero

4th Bradly Cooper is a butthead liberal

Jesse Ventura is a POS, IMHO.

The “American Sniper” lawsuit between Jesse “The Body” Ventura and the estate of late Navy SEAL Chris Kyle is finally over.

The former governor of Minnesota says he can “smile again” after reaching a settlement in his protracted legal battle with Chris Kyle’s estate. A judge awarded Mr. Ventura $1.8 million in 2014 for a defamation case stemming from a chapter in the Navy SEAL’s book — “American Sniper: The Autobiography of the Most Lethal Sniper In U.S. Military History” — but the ruling was overturned by the 8th Circuit Court of Appeals in 2016.

“I offered the ‘American Liar’ Chris Kyle the opportunity to show honor and courage, and he didn’t have it,” Mr. Ventura told reporters on Monday. “I can smile again. The settlement is confidential, but I can smile.”

The former governor’s case revolved around a chapter in Mr. Kyle’s book called “Punching Out Scruff Face.” The sniper claimed that he was in a bar fight with a famous conspiracy theorist who said the SEALs “deserved to lose a few.”

Mr. Ventura took heat from veterans — including war hero and author Marcus Luttrell — for pursuing his lawsuit after Mr. Kyle was murdered on Feb. 2, 2013, on a Texas gun range along with fellow veteran Chad Littlefield.

Settlement money that Mr. Ventura received did not come from widow Taya Kyle or the deceased veteran’s estate, Fox News reported Tuesday.

It was not disclosed whether the cash came from publisher Harper Collins or its insurance company.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/dec/5/jesse-ventura-settles-american-sniper-lawsuit-take/

I do agree that Hathcock was a badass

By what measure?

This is over 5 years old.

In other news, the neighbor's cat had kittens.

When somebody would ask Chris who the best sniper of all time was he didn’t hesitate with an answer..... Carlos Hathcock. He was in awe of the man

I was proud to call Chris my friend

So Kyle did defame Ventura for profit and someone stepped in to make the law suit go away.

Is that correct?

Yes, according to the article I posted. Somebody here subsequently made reference to a 3rd trial. I have no knowledge of that.

I am not a Ventura fan. The facts are though that Ventura won his first court case against Kyle's estate. The case never was against Kyle's family including his widow and their finances were never jeopardized by either case.

The first case was overturned by the 8th Circuit on a technicality. In it, Ventura had proven that Kyle defamed him by lying about having punched him out in a bar fight where Ventura made derogatory remarks about Navy Seals. To do that Ventura had to prove that Kyle was lying about the derogatory remarks-in other words, he didn't make them and that Kyle lied about punching him out-Kyle didn't punch Ventura. The story came from Kyle's famous book. The story had to have damaged Jesse's reputation significantly as well.

Subsequently, either Harper Collins, the book's publisher or their insurance company, had to pony up money to settle the lawsuit.

Those are all facts. Whether Ventura is a "douche" or not doesn't enter into it. Kyle's family was not damaged in the least, financially from it because they didn't pay the settlement.

Cases like this test peoples' moral convictions for their support of the rule of law.

.....or not.

Around the time of the trial there were also some comments made that where the trial was held might have influenced the decision in the trial.

Jesse Ventura is pretty convincing in that video the OP posted.

That's exactly what I was looking to draw out trying to get past all the swirling drama and half page diatribes. Thanks.

You're lucky to have known him, for a long time he was a man that I would have liked to shake the hand of. He was a great American and a badass warrior.

Rogan is a great interviewer and Ventura makes some VERY solid points that all sound extremely credible. I went into this like the rest of you, Kyle was a hero, Ventura a zero.This completely changed my perspective on the issue. I recommend you watch the video..........

Well said!!!

If by number of confirmed kills, it would be Bert Waldron. Nothing against fellow Arkansan Carlos Hathcock, who shares my birthday.

Dunno who's lying about what. Jesse says Kyle was awarded 3 Bronze Stars, Kyle said 5? Didn't read the book he wrote. Wiki says Kyle was awarded 4 Bronze Stars, so who knows?

First tour in Nam I had 2 DFC's pinned on my chest by the CG 101st ABN about 4 months apart. Only one set of orders made it into my records, so in the world of paperwork I only received one. You guys can figure it however you want.

[/quote]Yes, according to the article I posted. Somebody here subsequently made reference to a 3rd trial. I have no knowledge of that.

I am not a Ventura fan. The facts are though that Ventura won his first court case against Kyle's estate. The case never was against Kyle's family including his widow and their finances were never jeopardized by either case.

The first case was overturned by the 8th Circuit on a technicality. In it, Ventura had proven that Kyle defamed him by lying about having punched him out in a bar fight where Ventura made derogatory remarks about Navy Seals. To do that Ventura had to prove that Kyle was lying about the derogatory remarks-in other words, he didn't make them and that Kyle lied about punching him out-Kyle didn't punch Ventura. The story came from Kyle's famous book. The story had to have damaged Jesse's reputation significantly as well.

[/quote]

In the posted video the technicality was that the money coming from an insurance company came out in the trial.
And, according to Ventura, no person in the trial confirmed Kyle's having hit Ventura.
And, Ventura made it clear that his life had essentially been ruined over this whole matter. In fact he said he can't even go to any SEAL functions now--(at least at the time of the video).

I do remember hearing Kyle stating that he had hit Ventura on a tv show. Maybe O'Reilly's show. It was a surprise to me.

To be fair to Kyle, he never got the chance to defend himself in court. This should have been settled in either the court room or the bar room, but once Kyle was murdered, Tara should never have been drug into the fight. This is where I lost all respect for Jesse.

Just another reason I dump anything Deflave says. Sorry I toggled it to see the vid. Be Well. Rusty

What did I say?

That is precisely why I asked. Now if it's about BRASS BALLS, Hathcock ir Waldron would surely be in the running!

Have you ever actually looked into the points of the case?

Did you listen to the interview?

This thread reminds me of comments like - Trump is a game show or reality show dumbass - I don't like him , ain't never done nuthin except say'you're fired' .

Many need to try and read rather than go with some tv or hearsay crap - CK is a super hero JV should die .

Military.com
Born James George Janos, Jesse Ventura is a multi-faceted celebrity who has written books, served as a governor, acted for cinema, and wrestled professionally. He was born in 1951 in Minneapolis, Minnesota to two World War II veterans. By the time Ventura graduated from high school in 1969, the Vietnam War was underway.

Ventura enlisted into the United States Navy and joined the Underwater Demolition Team (UDT) after graduating from Basic Underwater Demolition/SEAL (BUD/S) school. Ventura frequently references his military service in public, and a lawyer from San Diego criticized him for faking his claims of being a SEAL. Although Ventura never completed the extra 26 weeks of training to become a SEAL, the UDTs were broken apart and combined with the SEAL teams after Vietnam. Ventura claims that UDTs simply refer to themselves as SEALs due to the restructuring. Despite his membership with Underwater Demolition Team 12, Ventura never saw combat during Vietnam although he did receive the Vietnam Service Medal.

If Jesse Ventura said those things about the SEALS, he deserves to be ostracized by the SEAL community and he has nobody but himself to blame. If Jesse Ventura said those things about the SEALS, he deserves to be ostracized by the SEAL community and he has nobody but himself to blame.

Here is the thing, you cannot convince me that one Seal in that bar would not come forward to say "yes, I saw Jessie hit the floor" to help out Kyle's wife in the the trial, but in a room full of Seals, not one could come forward and say, "yes I heard Jessie say this, or yes, I saw Kyle punch Jessie?"
Likewise if I am Kyle, why not name Ventura in the book if it happened? I mean if the goal was to tell more books, how could not telling the truth in the book and naming Ventura not help book sales?

Looking in as an outsider with no dog in the fight, I think I have to give the nod to Ventura.

No, and I won't. Don't consider Jesse's comments worthy of my time. To be completely fair to him, Kyle did seem to stretch the truth for a good story, so Jesse's version may be 100% accurate. That's not my point. If he would have dropped the case after Kyle was murdered, saying that the fight was between the two of them, and he refused to drag the innocent into the fight, then he would have won my respect, and I suspect the respect of fellow seals. He claimed it wasn't about the money, maybe that part was a lie. As far as the court case, with only one side being presented, and Kyle unable to defend himself, it went just as I suspected.

I admit I never really "dug" too deep in an attempt to find one way or the other what really happened here. I bought the book, saw the movie and assumed Ventura was a typical Hollywood personality. I'm having second thoughts about the whole mess now. Maybe Kyle got caught up in his own bar room story and never intended for it to go as far as it did and couldn't himself find a good way way out of it. To some degree most of us have probably had similar "fuzzy" remembrances about things that didn't factually happen the way we remember them. I don't feel the same way I did before watching that interview.

Ventura is just a POS.

OK.

Why do you say that?

Aliens dislike a loud mouth drunk.

[
First tour in Nam I had 2 DFC's pinned on my chest by the CG 101st ABN about 4 months apart. Only one set of orders made it into my records, so in the world of paperwork I only received one. You guys can figure it however you want. [/quote]

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt Pard! DFCs are very hard to come by...:)

Chuck Mawhinney might have something to say about that

Dan brings up an excellent point regarding DD214's. They are often inaccurate however, they can be corrected.

It is fairly well documented that the Navy took issue with the commendation's listed by Kyle. If the numbers were skewed on either side they could be easily (by .gov standards) remedied. The Navy was correct in their questioning. After review it was determined he had one Silver and four Bronze. A lot of people would say no explanation is needed and I'd tend to agree. Unless the subject in question wrote a book about himself.

The Katrina shootings could have happened in my opinion. There are numerous accounts of Delta and other groups being flown into New Orleans at the peak of chaos. However he seems to be the only one claiming to be perched atop the Superdome racking up kills. And I've never fully understood if he meant he was inside the dome or outside the dome? Inside would make the most sense but the story was floated in a way that doesn't make a lot of sense.

The gas station "shootings/murders" make even less sense. He is on record as stating they not only happened at a gas station on route 67, but that the local law enforcement helped cover it up and even praised him for his heroic deed. That raises some serious questions. None of those questions have ever been answered.

The Ventura tale is just one more piece of the puzzle that doesn't add up.

NOBODY (including Ventura) have ever claimed Kyle was not a war hero. Simply that a lot of what was perceived to be facts about the case, are anything but.

I think arguments regarding "greatest sniper ever" should be reserved for snipers. I think nitpicking Ventura's UDT vs SEAL status is juvenile unless you happen to be a SEAL or UDT graduate. And I think being a war hero doesn't give you carte blanche to say WTF you feel like saying and expect everyone to not as much as raise an eyebrow lest they be seen as "unpatriotic."

Regardless I think the excerpt of the video is educational and I think it demonstrates how powerful a podcast can be in comparison to conventional news/information sources.

OK.

Good grief you'd think it was a bunch tampon users in Special Forces based on all the drama.

I'd say the issue is fairly more complicated and intriguing than that.

I get the intriguing drama filled entertaining aspect part.

But complicated? He either lied about certain things in his biography or he didn't.

You needed Cliff Notes for a 20 minute interview so I doubt you'll ever get it.

I read the book. Kyle didn’t need the Ventura or Katrina bs to sell his book...I hope it was the publisher or ghostwriter who thought exaggerating was a good idea, not Kyle.

Thanks for what you did in uniform...RIP

😎

Your cute when you get dramatic.

Concur.

To add that Ventura, in my understanding, has never claimed to be a war hero either. I've always thought he was a goofy bastard and loves himself too much, but the facts came out at trial. The media sensationalized the lawsuit as they always do. The court of public opinion was harsh on Ventura because we love our hero's and they never have flaws in our mind's eye.

Kyle IS a hero. His over-watch saved countless American lives. No doubt about that. His book IS an inspiration to it's readers. I believe it still would have been without any embellishments. Why he did is known only to him. His editor should have fact checked way more carefully because of libel and defamation. Therefore, it's on them to pay damages...or their insurance company. Kyle's family suffered no financial loss from the lawsuit.

Honor with a capital "H" is maybe the most important word to any SEAL. Ventura is trying to protect his. Kyle's is still intact for his service and the service he did for others with PTSD. The book and Hollywood's portrayal of it, or the lawsuit doesn't diminish that fact.

Podcast date?

The problem is, Kyle did say it. The book publisher's may be responsible for spreading it, but the lie is Kyle's. Unless his interviews on Opie and Anthony and Bill O'Reilly's shows were somehow mocked up, then Kyle indeed claimed to have punched Ventura in the face.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhjHWovwix4

I believe the date is 01/04/2012.

Army special operators seem to have a stronger attachment to the Third S than the Navy. A lot less drama in the public eye.

Nice. Just 7 1/2 years old.

In fairness, you later imply that though they could have happened, it seems a bit far-fetched. My words though.

I think though it could have happened, it is highly unlikely. Anybody who has ever done things for the government has signed all sorts of non-disclosure agreements and knew way beforehand that they were to never speak of it. If they were stupid enough to even talk of it, then it was only to the most trusted people they knew wouldn't be blabbing about it themselves. Going on the air and talking about such events, let alone putting them in a book, is beyond the pale.

To me, unless it is some whistle-blowing type thing, or the person fears for their own life or the life of their family if the info doesn't go public, it dishonors them. On the flipside, it is even more dishonorable to claim to be in on such an event that never happened or that you weren't in on, for whatever motivation. Especially just to enhance your rep for some book or movie.

This stuff adds credibility to Jesse's version of events at the SEAL bar. Jesse himself is less than credible to me, but there were others testifying and other evidence as well as the lack thereof, that made the initial case where Ventura was awarded 1.8 mil. due to defamation AND the award came from either insurance or the book publisher when the case was finally settled after initially being overturned by the 8th Circuit.

I can stop being cute.

You'll always be slow.

That's the radio program that Kyle comes out saying that Ventura is identified as "Scruff Face."

If you click on it, it will open and you can view it.

The podcast with Joe Rogan is from 2016. If you click the play button you can view it.

That's why I typed out a paragraph and not a sentence.

Kyle said the cops standing outside the bar saw him hit Ventura which is why he ran after hitting him, so why didn't someone bring in those cops to testify?

Lots of tells in his telling of the tale...

Very good point about the podcast format. Joe Rogan is one of several podcasters who has been reshaping the information world. Podcasts haven't replaced cable news, but they are making serious inroads.

Guys like Rogan, Shapiro, and others have garnered an enormous following without having any kind of affiliation with mainstream media outlets, which I regard as a good thing. I listen to Rogan's podcasts fairly often, because he has really interesting people on his show, talking about really interesting stuff.

Ventura's account seems fairly compelling.

It just doesn't make sense that Ventura would be mean mouthing his fellow SEALs. How would he benefit by doing so?

How can you defame a politician let alone a WWE wrestler??

No way I would have returned a judgement for Ventura.

Flarve, what was your intention in posting the interview?

Not enough drama around here for you?

I’ve known a few SF guys that did some heavy lifting in combat. None of them seemed similar to Chris Kyle’s public persona.

All are or were Apex predators that would gladly shove a tampon into a bullet hole and keep on fighting. Definitely not drama based dudes...😎

I’d love to see Marcus Luttrell bitch slap ole Jesse.

Well who of us would not defend ourselves from charges as these, if we were innocent of these charges?

Never convince me Kyle's team could not have found witnesses if there were witnesses, and yet not one could come forward and say "yes I heard it, yes I saw it"?

It’s amazing how many replied that they didn’t GAS whether Kyle was making schit up or not because Ventura is according to them a Douche.

I hope none of them ever get on a jury. Freedom and due process and fair and impartial jury be damned, that guy wasn’t my favorite wrassler.

Yur right.... F' the law!

Revealing, isn't it?

Not saying f' the law. Just saying that it is impossible to damage the reputation of a politician!

If the whole thing is a lie,...and I believe it was,..it means that Chris Kyle was a fairly strange individual.

Why would he say all of that nonsense?

I hope that POS Coward that murdered Chris is suffering like no other in prison. 😡

I never could understand why Kyle felt the need to lie. Any man with a Silver Star and FOUR Bronze Stars doesn't need to lie about anything. The shooting looters bit and gun fight at the gas station... why do that?

DEAD PRESIDENTS FACES ARE ON THE FRONT OF THEM .
See Kyle's smile that's a money smile .

Never met Kyle so no clue as to him personally but some people are just that way. I knew a guy for about 20 years that was a legitimate big time coach, coached multiple Olympic medalists and won a pro championship ring, yet over the time I knew him he also claimed to have competed in the olympics and trained at a soviet sports school. He would change the subject when it was pointed out that we knew him when he was in school and competing and never remembered him going to the olympics or ussr

I’d guess that he was just a natural born bullschitter, a very talented and brave one, but a bullschitter nevertheless.
I knew a fellow who was a decorated scout sniper type, numerous tours to Iraq and Afghanistan and a hell of a soldier as verified by two other very good friends of mine who were in the same unit and deployed with him. Heck of a nice fellow, but he came up with some real whoppers, both pertaining to experiences overseas as well as everyday life back home. He was just a BSer is all there is to it.

Habitual liars - lots of them out there - got a few in my family .

Appreciate the clarification.

I requested podcast date and assumed the answer applied to that question.

Suffered through the podcast so aware of its contents.

Some decent speculation as to why that none of us will ever know short of God telling us. That said, the tinfoil explanation is that it was a mission all along and the target was Ventura. Jesse hasn't said anything like that lately as I would guess his lawyers shut him up

Best thing that ever happened to Chris Kyle was getting murdered.

Once you sell out your code of values that you signed up for as a SEAL and decide to chase commercial fame & money,

then the first casualty is usually the truth and ones priority as a civilian becomes promoting/selling your book to the millions of gullible public,
You can spice things up with tales of Katrina, roadside murder in Tx and punching Ventura.. but you also end up polarizing people, ..many
will gladly swallow what others deem as bllschit,....but in the end there are enough that will buy your story and make your rather wealthy.

I recall there were also questions raised as to how Kyle set up his book sales fueled charity for veterans, that millions from book sales
were being held in the charity coffers for prolonged time, with very little used to actually assist veterans as pledged.

considering some of the dark and underhanded shenanigans that some SF vets get involved in after they leave the military,
Kyles ways seem rather mild in comparison. ITs not like he stole the money ,kidnapped, or killed anyone to get it, he sold people
a story and they were happy to buy it.

Sorry.

In the future, I'll only share information regarding rain fall and hummingbird numbers.

Worst thing to happen to the Seals was the movie in the 90's.
Before that, they were unknown to most. Just american service members
doing their job. Once every one understood they were "special" it started downhill.

The asshat who shot Bin ladin is a great example. He did his job, well.
Go home with the satisfaction of a job well done.
Don't go looking for your glory.

As posted before, those are conversations to be had in private, with specific people.
Not the "look at me glory circut".

Kyle told enough whoppers that it makes me question everything he ever claimed.
And that's a darn shame, I believe there were some honorable deeds in the stories.
However, if you are looking at a truck load of rocks, and have no way to ID the diamonds,
they are just rocks.

Jesus...

I hope people like that never serve on a jury either. I don't care who you like better Jessie or Kyle. What matters is the facts of the case. A man who is a former WWF wrestling star, movie star, and governor of Minnesota gets decked in a crowded bar full of Navy seals and no one sees it? No one besides Kyle remembers it? The cops have no record of it despite claims that they did come? Photos of Ventura immediately following the supposed event do not show him with any marks on his face. No black eye. No swelling. No bruise. No split lip. Nothing.

I also think some of the folks claiming they wouldn't have sued are being disingenuous. I bet if some celebrity was going on national radio shows falsely claiming to have stomped a mudhole in their ass they would be singing a different tune. And it's not just about the false claim of the punch. It is also about the pretty despicable things Kyle claimed Ventura was saying about some Navy seals. Ventura was a member of a group that was a precursor to the Navy seals. For that reason members of those units have always been accepted as brethren in the seal community. Those claimed comments if believed would cause irreparable damage to Ventura within those circles.

Another brown stain that dripped down a female's buttcrack regales us with this comment,,,,

I believe what he meant (and he didn't state it very well) was that if Kyle was still alive and having to defend some of his "stories", he wouldn't still be the "hero" that the vast majority of Americans consider him to be. IOW-he died in his prime.

Sweetheart you know I'm the only one for you, no need to play hard to get.

Let me know what else you need explained today.

Sweet-cheeks don't be indignant I elevated the level of conversation about your little topic. You go on now with your bad self.

I know that interview was tough to grasp.

Glad somebody could help you out.

No, I was just asking you for your motivation.

I already posted that.

Read the thread.

oh man, I'm guessing Wabigoon is going to be skipping this video.

NO - no no crying/sobbing tears spraying everywhere - Ventura stole all of taras money - omg more tears/crying/sobbing - ventura finacially raped her the poor widow . Stinking lowdown wassler scum taking everything from people who served -tears crying sob sob sobbing
I love john mcCain .

Chris and talked about a lot of stuff but I’m going to take those conversations with me

What I can tell you, as a point of fact, was that Chris couldn’t wait to testify against Ventura. I spent a week and a half with him in November of 2012, a couple months before he was killed, and he told me a bit about what he was saving for the trial. He had a lot of information to share and was looking forward to the opportunity to do so

My personal thoughts on it are this. I believe they had words. I believe the story may have been embellished a bit on both sides but I do believe there was an altercation of some sort. There’s Chris’s side, Ventura’s side and somewhere in the middle is the truth

Chris was a great man. A great man with demons. He saw and did things that we cannot even imagine. He would have stayed up and talked all night to avoid going to sleep. I can remember in the mornings hearing him in tortured sleep and I’d throw an apple or an orange against the door to get him to wake up in case a bullet came through the door. He was a great friend, a great father and an American hero

This thread disgusts me. What’s the point? Chris is dead and isn’t here to defend himself and it’s years in the past.

I don’t know why you’d be disgusted by an interview of Ventura.

Every interview I have watched or listened too that contained Jesse Ventura......left me with the same conclusion.


Jeebus that Ventura guy is a knob!


Nothing against him.......he is just a bit of a knob is all.

Absolutely.

But knobs can be heard too.

I’m disgusted that it’s brought back up years after it’s done in an attempt to discredit a man I called my friend. If you can’t understand that then go [bleep] yourself

Oh sure. There is at least a knob in every story.

Sometimes two knobs.

Ok.

Jim,

Stop talking porn.

Thats called a jackpot.

I listened to the whole podcast this morning. Ventura is an interesting guy. Whacked out on some things, other things not.

Only thing I'll add to this quickly spiraling conversation, is if a guy comes home and quietly goes about his life he should absolutely be left alone to do that. If on the other hand he writes a book, and there is a movie, etc. then at that point he becomes a public figure. It's a double edged sword, you can't on one hand parlay exploits into fame and $$$, then not be called back up to the podium to clarify. Damned shame he's not here to answer for himself, and I won't slander him because even if some of the things are embellished he's still in my mind an American hero.

Not to drag this out, but by way of reasonable discussion, anything Chris would have had for court would have to be given to Jesse. If he really had a magic bullet to win his case his lawyers would also have had it. If it was a game-changer it had to be a lot more than just something he was going to say on the stand.

Jesses lawyers only had what they asked in a deposition

This vision brings a smile to my face on an otherwise schitting ending to a guy who had warts just like the rest of us.

His were brought into the public’s view by his own doings writing a book. Maybe he knew what the public eye would be like, maybe he didn’t.

My only question and maybe Huntsonora could shed some light...Is why would Chris and his pard continue on to the gun range when they both realized the guy sitting in the backseat of Kyle’s truck was totally off in the head while driving there.

The last place or thing I’d be doing with an unknown, mentally damage dude, is roll to a range and put a gun in his hand or have him anywhere near a firearm in my presence.

😎

That's where I'm at on this topic.
Cripes, we're all flawed.
I find dragging a dead man's reputation, a former service man who many times was in the thick of battle and saved a lot of fellow servicemen through the mud to be repulsive and non productive.

And yet you are not the one whose reputation was itself dragged through the mud.

Thats a question we all have. It doesn't add up at all, for anybody that knew him. Chris's head was always on a swivel

Nobody is dragging anybody through anything.

It's a conversation about what somebody said.

Maybe he thought that he was better than anyone else and could handle the situation.

Ok

Heros, like the rest of us are not perfect.

Speak for yourself. After my last colonoscopy, the doc inferred that I was a perfect a-hole (no polyps).