Currently using 4health but that made a list for the possibility of heart problems. My dog is very important to me. What should I buy.

Taste of the wild
And
Supplement with some raw meats

The Costco grain free Brand been very good too

Throw in some good quality raw meats a few times a week

Mine gets Fromms Heartland Gold line. I get it through a local feed store but I don't know what their distribution is nationwide.

My dog food was on the list the FDA just put out (Earthborn Holistic). I just changed to a Science Diet product.

I like Stihl

Hopefully Science Diet got their act in order. We got some from out vet earlier this year that was later recalled because of toxic vit D levels that killed several dogs. Thankfully we only used it for a few days.

The study basically implicated most grain free diets, although they don't know why.

Nutrisource

Crazy, we’ve been feeding Earthborn Holistic Costal Catch.

https://www.fda.gov/animal-veterina...-diets-and-canine-dilated-cardiomyopathy

Another vote for the Costco Kirkland brand. My colleague is a Veterinarian, and did a 20 year stint in the dog food industry. Had him look over various brands to see what was best for dogs in our program...with an eye on nutrition and value..Kirkland was his pick. I now feed it at home, as do a few others in our circle.

I'm guessing no one keeps up with this stuff since 3 of the recommendations so far are brands implicated in causing heart disease.

We’d transitioned to feeding our Lab, Joe, grain free dog food because he had a grain allergy and just continued with the same food.

Afterbirth, road kill and dead cow debris.

Are we supposed to guess? or you just like to piss and run.

You left out goose, rabbit and moose shidt.

That guy...hehehe

He didn’t read any of the context.

mmmmn?

Been feeding Taste of the Wild for a number of years now, no issues have shown up with our dogs.

Anyone have a link to the actual study? Were the cases mentioned dogs with a predisposing factor? Lack of exercise, genetic?

I'll let the wife know as she's the keeper of the dog food pantry.

Geno

We dont get many gooses or mooses round these parts.

His snide comments are much more welcome when accompanied by girly pics.


Geno

Ol' Roy brand from Walmart. Supplement with all table scraps.

He do like dat ass dont he..

Candidae All Life Stages for both labs and the German Shorthair. We had been using a more expensive organic food but wound up switching to the Candidae. It’s weird but the 3 things that we noticed about both dogs after switching foods was their urine no longer burned the lawn, they have FAR FAR less gas and they quit eating the chickenshit from our hens. Apparently Candidae All Life Stages contains the Recommended Daily Allowance of chickenshit. 😂

They have beautiful coats and are the picture of health, in fact a veterinarian once commented that both our labs, one yellow female (American lab) and our black male (English lab) were the “picture of what the breed should look like”.

They get the trimmings from deer and elk and my sweetheart cracks a fresh egg for them each morning but otherwise aren’t given anything else except a dog biscuit occasionally. They’re also free fed, we just fill their bowls when empty and they eat when they’re hungry.

Uh, yeah. The OP is asking about changing to a brand not implicated in causing heart disease, and everyone keeps recommending brands that have been implicated in causing heart disease.

I can do the google for you if I need to. Just let me know. Although, I did list the brands in my first post.

The dingo recently pulled out a healthy chunk of aged afterbirth from a manure pile.

Something he had buried back in April or March is now rediscovered mid July.


The moment he jumps in the back seat of the pick-up and exhales you find out.

https://www.fda.gov/animal-veterina...-diets-and-canine-dilated-cardiomyopathy

You a peach buddy.

https://www.canidae.com/dog-food/products/canidae-all-life-stages-dry-formula/

This looks to be just another grain free food with the potentially problematic ingredients: peas, lentils, and garbanzo beans...

...And I thought afterbirth season was over.

There needs to be a lot more testing before I am going to get worked up over the FDA's report. They implicate a brand, but disregard that brand may have over a dozen different formulas. Shadow will continue to get NutriSource Seafood Select. Made in the USA by a company that has never suffered a recall.

infiniti salmon with sweet potatoe.....My wirehair loves it and it has cured some of her alergies.

Afterbirth and dead bovine debris season is never over.

500 reports on a 89,700,000 US dog population.

We bury our dead bovine.

My last dog lived on a diet of 80% venison and 20% chicken, beef and pork. She lived to be 15.5 and didn't really start to slow down and act like an old dog until she was 13. My current buddy is 12 and has essentially lived on the same diet, though he does really like McDonalds cheeseburgers and chicken Mcnuggets too. He's still full of energy and the vet says he's in remarkably good shape for his age.

Not counting rez dogs either.

They make good living rummaging through McDonald's bags tossed out next to the dirty diapers at intersections.

Dont know if they can drink the warm Budweiser or Twisted Tea in the barrow pit though....

My dog picks his own tomatoes and cucumbers. He's doing Keto right now.

Its the circle of life man.

You didnt dig that bovine out of the ground when it was born.....

Buzzards gotta eat.......same as worms.....

I feed 4-Health hi protein, or actuce, whatever it’s called, to my 3 year old and 10 month old shorthairs. The vet said they both look great and not to change a couple months ago when they had their last shots.

4-Health is on the FDA list, but if I read the report as well as several articles reporting on it, it’s the grain free varieties in 90%+ of the cases.

That's what our vet recommended, it's diamond brand. Corn based dogfood is not very digestible, so they eat more and crap more.

There is a lot of bias in the report. What are the top breeds? Golden and labs. What are the top breeds with the most reported problems? Same, same. Who runs to the vet for dog check ups? Folks who can afford to. Who buys a lot of the ""premium" brands listed? Same.

I am in the research stage, hence the start of the post. That said, I want to give my lab the best I can.

Big Jim, what’s a barrow pit ??? I’m guessing maybe it’s Montana speak for what Texans call a bar ditch ???

My old Lab loved Apricots......he'd stand on his back legs and pick em.

Just looking at his chit made my butt hole hurt

I think thats right.


Bar ditch the same as borrow pit I believe.

I had an Aussie as a kid that could smell out a rotting carcass from miles away. She really loved rolling in that chit for some reason, never could break her of it.

See that dirt spot lower left, buried bovine...





Buzzard food.

He pulled about 10 this evening while we were tying up tomato vines.

LOL. Reminds me of one of GrandDad’s favorite sayings :
“He was shaking like a Chihuahua schitting a peach seed”

Looks like thems other bovines are sitting shiva.

Gotcha.

Pretty much. Her calf was inside the fence looking for mamma.

I wouldn't call it bias, it is what it is. The FDA is just acting on what was reported to them. What strikes me as odd though is the fact there were almost no reports for years prior to 2018. What changed? Did the way vets report things change or was there really a spike in the disease? If it really is a spike in the disease, what caused it. The fact most of the reported cases were in dogs on grain free diet, regardless of protein source, seems to implicated something in the grain free process.

I think for now the safe thing would be not using grain free dog food, unless you need to due to allergy or other health concern. I currently feed my dog IAMS large breed and supplement protein from eggs. In no way do I think IAMS is a "premium" brand and that is why I supplement.

I am thinking about switching to IAMS. Thanks

Used to feed Iams but about 12 years found out that were using contaminated Chinese protein in their foods. Dogs died eating it

Sure they fixed it but can’t beat the Costco brand for quality and value

China is a huge problem as almost all the supplemental vitamins in dog food comes from China. Even the "made in USA" brands. Many brands have been burned by secondary suppliers that source their product from China. Most recently was prescription only Science Diet, which was extremely well thought of. If you are buying commercial dog food, you are most likely feeding some ingredients that were sourced from China.

Think that's bad, the same applies to many of the prescription drugs that you may take.

How about Eagle Pack? Supposed to be a well researched formulation.

My Sophie dog (GSP) that died recently was a Tomato thief.

She'd eat em by the dozen given the chance.......I had to be careful not to turn my back on the basket when I picked Tomato's.

We cook for our dogs. Pathetic to some, but we've had excellent results. Our schnauzers get eggs and unsweetened applesauce for breakfast. Low salt green beans, and Blue Diamond kibble for dinner. We had a rat terrier who had a long time heart murmur who was eighteen when she passed.

Not pathetic. A home cooked diet, or some version of a raw diet is what's best. It's just a lot of work and expensive. Even the best commercial dog food is still basically stuff that comes from a rendering plant.

I've looked at this for my dogs before, but dang is it expensive: https://www.barfworld.com/
We supplement our dog food with fresh eggs and green beans.

Victors. With at least ten different varieties, it's our top selling brand in our pet supply stores. I feed the Hi-Pro in the little dog kennel to dogs that don't come with their own food. My twelve year old Drathaar is on the chicken and sweet potato variety.

I have had good results with Purina Pro Plan Sport. They also get meat table scraps and or some meat or whatever type of bird I have available. They even eat sage grouse on the occasion that I shoot one for them. I cook all the meat they get except for wild bird hearts, gizzard and liver while I clean them.

My wife thinks I over indulge my dog, but I don't care. Our neighbor has chickens and ducks and give us 3 dozen eggs a week for putting up with them in our yard. We eat half of them and the dogs eat the other half. They prefer green beans, but get carrots, asparagus, kale, or spinach at time too. They still get mostly dry dog food, but I try to supplement enough to get them vitamins and protein from other sources. When they do get meat scraps, I serve them medium rare, mostly to kill anything that might be on the outside of the meat. The eggwhites are cooked with the yolk runny.

Ha! I was telling my wife just last night on our walk, when the Lab mix cme back with mooseshit breath that if we had more wildlife around, we could quit buying dog food. The 4 month old Dachshund prefers birdshit.

We are feeding Taste of the Wild - seems to be doing good. Used to feed canine caviar, but it's $10 a bag more expensive, tho a good food also.

My last Lab got sick every time he had a Kirkland dog biscuit (milkbone type) I won't buy them anymore, and they are more expensive that Milkbone anyway at Costco.

Gee, I dunno. Always had good results feeding Purina store brand. Would probably go with their higher protein mix if my dogs worked hard. Purina has their own nutritional scientists and make their own products, not contracted out to China. And the product is made to meet the requirements of dogs, not the esthetic sensibilities of their owners.

Read the original articles relating to this latest health scare and it looks like some pretty poor science based on some pretty weak data. It is more speculation than fact.
My faith in the medias ability to deliver the facts remains on the skeptical side.
Think you are making a poor decision, if you change your heretofore successful feeding practices, based on this recent "news."

We feed our lab mix wellness.

Orijen Original for my wife’s papillons, Orijen Regional Red for my Chessie. Expensive, but very high nutrient density and provides outstanding results. All their varieties are grain free.

I fed taste of the wild for a couple of years but my dog’s foot would swell sometimes...vet figured a food allergy. Switched to Orijen and life is good...five years problem free.

Purina Pro Plan Venison and Turkey (or something like that) high-protein.

Any high-protein dog food that lists a meat product as its first ingredient is good to go.

All farm dogs and wild coyotes eat grains (especially corn) on a regular basis, by their own choice. It's not bad for them, only when fed exclusively and in excess. Canines are very close to omnivorous in the wild so long as they have significant amounts of meat included.

The best food for any dog is a high-protein meat-based variety, and feed less of it on a once-a-day schedule. Brand literally does not matter.

This is how I feed my dogs.

Give Your Dog A Bone

After killing our Rowdy with kindness, and all the table scraps he would eat, we asked our vet. They recommend Purina Pro Plan.

Seems counterintuitive, but a vet is usually the last person you'd want to take advice from when it comes to a proper diet for your dog. They receive their dog nutrition training from representatives of the commercial dog food industry.

Yeah, for sure wouldn't expect a DVM to have any training about what may be good or bad for things like heart, kidneys, liver, muscle, bone, eyes or brain or anything else. That just doesn't make sense at all!. Stick to anti-semitic commentary, you're better at that.

I tend to be hip to all the scams going on, Miles.

Had all three of my dogs on that stuff. Vet told me to get them off immediately. Food should contain Taurine..Fromm Gold small and large breed is what I am putting them on.

Won't own a dog that won't eat Purina Dog Chow, our Pugle gets fed that and MIlk Bones and Cheerios for treats. Sometimes he gets leftover veggies and meat scraps, he's healthy as a horse walks a mile every day with me sometimes 2-3 miles.

I adopted that white dog in my Avatar when she was about a year old. Wanting her to have the best diet available, I researched it, and decided that the best available commercial kibble at the time was Orijen (which vets liked very much). That's what I fed her for a couple of years.

Gradually, she had increasing difficulty jumping up onto my bed (which is a high bed), eventually being unable to so at all, whereas she had zero difficulty at first (Youth is a powerful force in maintaining good health, almost regardless of diet). Eventually, at about age three, she tore her ACL (confirmed by vet X-Ray, in dogs referred to as a CCL tear) just running around and playing in the yard. My vet said that he didn't recommend surgery, and that I should just get used to the idea of owning a lame dog for the remainder of her life. Just restrict her activity, and take her on slow walks every day, he said.

In addition to that, she was a chronic, massive, shedder. Her fur was constantly shedding profusely.

Instead of following the vet's advice, however, I researched dog nutrition, and eventually discovered the raw dog food diet movement. The arguments all seemed sound, so I gave it a try.

Almost immediately, the shedding stopped cold. Within a few months, she was able to effortlessly jump onto the high bed, and had zero sign of an ACL tear (this was six years ago, when she was three), or any sort of lameness whatsoever. She's now nine and is the very image of vibrant, youthful, health, with zero lameness and super healthy fur.

My own experience convinced me, and confirmed what I was reading about the commercial dog food industry and the raw meat, bone, and organ diet for dogs.

My vet , who raises hunting dogs, recommended those brands plus some raw good quality meat. I keep scraps from deer elk and antelope and freeze for dog food.

I can a bunch of meat scraps from animals harvested and throw in a bunch of veggies in the jars too. I take these on bird hunting trips.

All my bird hunting dogs have lived past 13 years with no health problems. I was hiking with my griff in the mountains yesterday and she was wearing a gps collar. I went about 10 miles and she did around 28 miles according to gps. We kicked up a lot of blue grouse which is promising.

When bird and duck hunting season ramps up shell average around 50 to 60 miles a week busting brush for quail, grouse running up steep rocky hills after chukar and swimming for ducks And geese. Bird dogs are like athletes and need really good quality food.

Frommes is good . I live rural with and difficult for me to get.

Check out this site. Unbiased review of all the dog foods out there. I switched to Victor red...great results.

https://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/

Here's a typical dog meal in my home. Chicken whole leg, bone and skin; small piece of frozen, raw, beef liver (to the left of the green stuff); a fist full of frozen berries; a piece of raw pig tail (bone in); a fish oil capsule that they love the taste of, so they eagerly eat it without my needing to hide it in anything; and the green stuff is a mix of ground up vegetables and fruits, to approximate the stomach content of small game animals (Grain Free Fruit and Veggie Base Mix, available from The Honest Kitchen).

For anyone who's queasy about feeding raw bones, dogs are equipped by 40 million years of evolution to be bone processing machines. But only raw bones. Cooked bones are actually quite risky and harmful.

Also, weight supporting bones from animals larger than a turkey are too likely to injure a dog's teeth, so not recommended. Ribs, sternums, and spines are good from larger animals up to cattle.

Far better to get dog feeding advice from unqualified people in the internet.

Don't take my advice. But at least do the research on the subject before concluding that the crap produced by the commercial dog food industry is as good as what dogs evolved to eat over 40 million years.

I'm feeding Victor Hi-Pro plus to my German wirehair. It runs about $1/lb.

Concur. Getting it right takes some education and it takes significantly more prep time than cupping out kibble from a bag. Our family goes through the time and expense of feeding a form of the Billinghurst BARF diet. So far, we have been gratified by the results.

Decent primer: https://pets.webmd.com/dogs/guide/raw-dog-food-dietary-concerns-benefits-and-risks#1

I've fed my German Short Hairs Purina Pro Plan Lamb and Rice for years. I feed my younger dogs Purina Sport during hunting or trailing season, more protein. This seems to be the food of choice with hunters, trailers and NAVHDA people' I do not believe Purina has ever had a recall of their food, Mid priced food that keeps my kennel in top shape. You won't be sorry!

I have been using TOTW for a very long time on my small dogs. I have been using Fromm on my Bull Mastiff for about 2 years and then to TOTW for a year until last week and his vet visit where he shook his head and said get him off it . The Mastiff can eat anything and does well.

I have to put one of my Parsons Russell on an ABCD diet per the vet for his food allergies( Anything except Beef,Chicken and Dairy), a different vet BTW. That mix is going to be a tough one to find but they are out there. My wife had this dog on home made food for a year and not one bit of difference , Venison,Carrots,Peas and rice. We have gone every which way to keep him from scratching including Orijen which made his scratching worse .


It's a roll of a dice. FWIW I think there are a ton of good foods out there, just have to get the right mix for a particular dog.

Is that like doing research on immunizations by reading mommy blogs?

Billinghurst is a good place to start.

Not sure if you're referring to TOTW or Costco, but TOTW does contain taurine now. When this issue started popping up about a year ago, there was some speculation that the lack of taurine in the grain-free kibbles may be the cause. Is that still the case? If so, I wonder if "the list" was compiled from cases before taurine was added because many of those listed now contain taurine.

I started my current GWP pup on Wellness Core large breed puppy food. For my previous GWP, she was fed the Kirkland and the PureBalance from wallyworld.

Like I said I have 2 vets one for the small dogs and one that handles the large breeds(long story). Both were adamant about removing them from TOTW.

TOTW ...Vet told me that TOTW was almost at the top of lists with incidents in the latest FDA release. Costco stuff is made by Diamond foods who also makes TOTW and a bunch of other Brands as well.


4Health- Grain INCLUSIVE ONLY-
Taste OF the Wild
Diamond
Chicken Soup(Diamond brand)
Solid Gold dry foods
Canidae

I've been feeding 2 dogs 2 different foods on that list for about a decade. I don't plan to change anything. It seems like a pretty small study to get concerned about. If you pay attention, there's dog food recalls pretty often.

I just ordered eagle pack for large breed dogs.


https://www.eaglepack.com/product-orignal-dog.aspx?product=85



Chicken Meal, Pork Meal, Ground Brown Rice, Oatmeal, Rice, Dehulled Barley, Chicken Fat (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Tomato Pomace, Flaxseed, Brewers Dried Yeast, Potassium Chloride, Vitamins [Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Vitamin A Supplement, Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C), Thiamine Mononitrate, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Folic Acid], Minerals [Zinc Proteinate, Zinc Sulfate, Iron Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Manganese Sulfate, Sodium Selenite, Calcium Iodate], Taurine, Calcium Carbonate, Mixed Tocopherols added to preserve freshness, Inulin, Glucosamine Hydrochloride, Dried Enterococcus faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Bacillus licheniformis Fermentation Product, Dried Bacillus subtilis Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus oryzae Fermentation Product, Dried Trichoderma reesei Fermentation Product, Dried Rhizopus oryzae Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus casei Fermentation Product, Rosemary Extract, Green Tea Extract, Spearmint Extract.

This is a naturally preserved product.

Small study? You need to pay more attention, I am going by what 2 very very Good Vets told me. DIamond has had the largest share of recalls.

Fromm Large Breed Dry...I think the list is way shorter then your list .

Chicken, Chicken Meal, Chicken Broth, Oat Groats, Pearled Barley, Brown Rice, White Rice, Dried Tomato Pomace, Dried Egg Product, Whole Oats, Chicken Liver, Whole Barley, Menhaden Fish Meal, Chicken Fat, Potatoes, Cheese, Flaxseed, Salmon Oil, Duck, Lamb, Carrots, Sweet Potatoes, Brewers Dried Yeast, Celery, Alfalfa Meal, Monosodium Phosphate, Salt, Calcium Sulfate, Potassium Chloride, Chicory Root Extract, Taurine, Vitamins, Minerals, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Sorbic Acid (Preservative), DL-Methionine, Sodium Selenite, L-Tryptophan, Probiotics.

Does that mean your vets don't think there's a link with taurine, that Diamond isn't putting in enough taurine, or they don't know TOTW lists taurine in the ingredients?

I believe you’ve looked into it.

These threads typically are filled with individuals’ favorite brand without knowledge of feeding, physiology, and nutrition.

Feed a name-brand, high-quality, food. As long as there are no allergies or side effects, the dog will do fine.

YMMV, as always.

No the study said that dogs fed TOTW among other brands were having cardio myopathy .He also mentioned Legumes might be a cause. The large dogs vet said take him off it NOW and shook his head. The further down the list an ingredient is the least amount of it in that food. He also mentioned Legumes might be a cause.


The small dogs Vet said Taurine or lack of it is a cause. I

And notice that Chicken is the first ingredient, and it's not chicken meal (look up how that's made), but actual chicken (yeah, they add chicken meal, too, but it's crucially not the first ingredient), which is good. Fromm is likely the best kibble available.

I don't know that it is the best available but the 3 dogs like it. I like rotating their stuff every few months so they don't develop an allergy to their food. They get a little bit of everything a few times a week. I have to tell you all 3 dogs had planned annual exams the last 2 weeks. I knew nothing of this FDA thingie, they came out and told me .

Dogs seem to thrive on cat chit pretty well.

It may be likely that our dogs eat healthier than most of us do.

I've talked to my wife, she has a vet appointment for the two whippets scheduled for Monday anyway and will ask about this study.

I have a few concerns with it after reading through the FDA info:

So, now soybeans are a "grain"????:

"product labels were examined to determine whether the product was grain-free (did not contain corn, soy, wheat, rice, barley or other grains), and whether the products contained peas, other lentils including chickpeas and beans, or potatoes (including sweet potatoes)."

Mean weight of dogs was nearly 68 lbs with a spread from 4-212,

Table 1: Mean Age and Weight - DCM Cases in Dogs Reported to FDA-CVM
Dogs Mean Range
Age (years) 6.6 0.4-16
Weight (lbs) 67.8 4-212

but here's the kicker, the dogs with the highest occurrence on the list are all larger breeds:



so, the next question I have because I didn't see in in the white paper (did I miss it?) , how many of these dogs exhibited the typical American tendency towards obesity? Which would push that mean weight up.

So, the study in my mind raises a lot of questions, as a good study might. I'm not looking at it as conclusive, but have asked my wife to ask the vet about their knowledge or lack thereof in regards to the study.

Our 19 year old, 24 lb whippet (of which there we two cases or so noted in the paper) just ran 100 yds in 7.58 seconds (about 27 mph) and the 5 year old, 40 lb boy dog ran it in 7.13 seconds (nearly 29 mph). Neither of them seem unhealthy by most standards. So perhaps what we're doing is working fine for them?

Good luck and good health to everyone's dogs out there in Campfire land.

Geno

Tag

When I first learned of this two weeks ago, I asked a good friend whose wife trains and competes agility dogs to ask what her feelings were. Her comments follow:

“Hi Ted,

Here is my two cents on the dog food controversy. One, DCM has a very high genetic predisposition that is unrelated to diet and another genetic risk associated with taurine deficiency. It is unclear how the genetic risk factors play into this. The data is still pretty unclear about what the cause is, but there may be an increased risk associated with grain free foods, and those that contain legumes (particularly peas and lentils) and/or potatoes (white or sweet).
This is not particularly helpful at the moment. A lot of dry foods can contain these ingredients, and there is no indication what % by dry weight of these ingredients could be problematic. It is entirely possible that these ingredients are not the issue, but just correlate with some other ingredient or process that is. I feed Fromm, which also made the list, so I share your concern. However, so far there are some 560 dogs total reported, and even though cases have spiked in the last 18 months, that is a REALLY low risk given the number of dogs eating these foods. It is worth noting that these tend to be higher end dog foods, and those fed by individuals paying attention to their dogs - thus there may be an over reporting bias here - we are the folks who take our dogs to the vet. Personally? I don’t think that I will change what my older guys are eating just yet. If you have any concerns, I highly recommend looking at this web site: Dog Food Reviews and Ratings/Dog Food Advisor. Dog Food Advisor has very good information, including ingredients lists, for a vast array of dog foods. It makes it pretty easy to compare and search brands based on what is or is not in them”.

FWIW I have been feeding the beagle Blue Buffalo Chicken and Brown Rice Recipe (mixed with table scraps to keep things interesting) for the last 6+ years. She loves it and thrives on it. I have no plans to change her diet right now.

That's a good doggy. Shadow approves of this post.

[quote=Sakoluvr]Currently using 4health but that made a list for the possibility of heart problems. My dog is very important to me. What should I buy.[/quote

Go forth and rid the prairies of a feral horse now and then. Cut it up, freeze it, and feed it to your dog. He'll love you even more for it.

What I don't like about that is the animal protein is all sourced from meal, which is just the rendered down remains of who knows what. Probably doesn't matter as what ever they use gets cooked down into a dry product. I just like to see the primary source be actual meat and not meal.

Regardless, it should be fine. I believe in supplementing whatever you use. We eat a variety of foods and extract what we need from them. Should be the same in dogs. You don't have to do much. For protein, eggs are cheap. Three eggs a week is plenty. You can buy a large bag of frozen skinless pink salmon fillets. One a week is plenty. Dogs like vegetables. Green beans are most common, but they like a variety. This morning my lab had an egg with carrots and asparagus and a small amount of regular dog food. At supper she had some yellow squash with her dog food. We had squash for supper, so I just gave her a couple of pieces.

I can really see a difference in her behavior after she has eaten mostly real meat and vegetables. I'm just too lazy/cheap to feed her that way full time.

About meal:

https://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/choosing-dog-food/about-meat-meal/


A bit more about the FDA study with some tips about changing food:

https://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-...-between-diet-and-heart-disease-in-dogs/

Yeah, still doesn't make me feel any better about it. Most dog food has a protein content of around 20-25% regardless of source. Meal is a higher concentrate of protein and therefore cheaper to make the 20+% protein final product. In the end though, it all gets cooked down into a dry product and probably doesn't matter. I just prefer they start with meat instead of powder.

I think dogs do better on wild food but most can not afford it.

FWIW, my daughter works for a pet food company as a nutritionist / formulator. I asked her about this, and her take is that there is something going on, we do not really understand what and how, but for now, better safe than sorry.

After she got out of grad school, she took "her" dog to live with her, and she continues to feed her Costco's Kirkland Lamb and Rice, although she is now switching over to the Senior formula (the bitch is now 11 1/2, but still acts like a puppy).

Just as a general observation, since I deal with animal feed formulations on a farm scale, there are currently large problems with several of the animal meal categories, particularly pork, chicken and some fish meals. In general, the quality of meals has gone down both in nutritional quality and in the occurrences of things like oxidation and oxidation related chemicals (think rancidity). Same thing for animal based oils (chicken fat and fish oil, in particular). Unless a manufacturer is very diligent and is proactive about ingredient quality, it's a crap shoot out there.

Don't almost all the field trial guys and breeders feed Purina Pro Plan? I fed my 10.5 year old lab Taste of the Wild his whole life and he has been healthy until his recent diagnosis with an aggressive Sarcoma form of Cancer that is going to take him too early. He has been an all star that draws raves from the vets and other hunters for his lean look, build and athleticism. My young one is on Pro Plan which is not on the list to my knowledge.

Dutch,

seems like that the larger the "economy of scale" gets in food production, human or animal, the more those problems crop up. I can't recall many million pound hamburger recalls growing up when the local shops used to grind it right there on a daily basis. Now, with it coming in large "chubs" and Costco size packages from a mega processor somewhere in Kansas, it seems to be a recurring problem.

Sure hated it when I worked in your industry to get food that didn't last because it went off quickly. Always an issue in the desert heat, even when we could keep the feed room around 75-80F.

Glad to hear your daughter has a cool job in the feed industry!

As for the dog food, boy, there are so many variables it's going to be tough sorting it out unless something glaring turns up.

Geno

I feed my Goldens a raw food diet of ground elk and antelope meat and organs in the fall, then frozen raw prey mix from Texas Tripe alternated with Ziwi Peak and Big Dog Natural, both air dried raw, for the rest of the year alternated with raw chicken backs that come frozen in a 40 lb box of 4 10 lb bags then thawed in the refrigerator before serving. No cooked kibble at all. The Ziwi Peak and the BDN are mixed with about 10% vegetables, but no grains or potatoes. On the other hand, my buddy who runs English Pointers feeds his dogs all the Purina they can eat--says he cant keep weight on them with anything else. Who knows.

I try to watch a couple web sites such as: www.fda.gov/animal-veterinary Link , and: www.dogfoodadvisor.com/ Link for any known problems, but more importantly I don't use much of it, instead feeding mine 75-90% fresh (cooked) foods and meats. And when I do use dog foods I don't purchase more than can be used in a short period of time, keep packaging long enough to track lot numbers, and never leave food out even for a short time. Dry feed spoils quickly and can be full of mold before ever opening the bag... sometimes its not how its manufactured but how its warehoused, transported and kept.

Phil

Meal almost never has any actual muscle meat in it. It's rendered tissues taken off stripped carcasses with heat and pressure, i.e., from what the human food facility cannot use (after the crap is taken that's used in potted meat for human consumption). Nothing at all like what we think of as meat.

As Billinghurst says, commercial dog food is designed to keep a dog alive without "appearing" to cause ill health in the short term. The damage it causes is, rather, done over time in the form of premature degenerative disease and death several years earlier than should have been the case.

Chicken backs are quite good, because of their bone to meat ratio, and because each one actually contains attached pieces of chicken liver and often whole kidneys.

I see it as; pay for the food you can best afford now so you may avoid paying for the dog's degenerative disease health care prematurely and for a longer duration.

Yep.

Six pages.

Wowsa.

Thirteen, by my count.

Yes and no. There are as many meals as there are manufacturers. There is whole fish meal and fish carcass meal. There is chicken by-product meal, there is pork by-product meal and there is still pork meal (generally from dead animals). There's hydrolized DDG. Pea protein.

What I prefer in my formulations is

1) as many "whole" ingredients as possible. I'd rather see soybeans than isolated soy protein (but not much of either...).

2) a large variety of ingredients. Nutritionists are under an enormous amount of pressure from the operators and bean counters to reduce the number of ingredients in a formulation because it makes mixing quicker and inventory management, purchasing and logistics cheaper. But I have proven to my satisfaction that formulations with more ingredients perform better than those with four or five ingredients.

Well....you know half of 13 is.........hmmm.

Many many years ago I worked for Buitoni Foods in their IT department. We would create and generate inventory reports as one of our tasks. Powdered eggs, powdered this and that. We had an executive chef at HDqtrs. He was more a Chemist then a Chef. The good pasta they sold came from Italy . Hint.

How about this many?

This many ingredients would be optimum.



Image of dead rabbit. Seems to be some kind of new policy with Google that no images of dead game are capable of being embedded elsewhere.

I had a Golden Retriever on Iams. When I got her as a puppy her Grandfather was 18 years old(incredible) and her mom and dad were 6 years old. My Dog was diagnosed with kidney disease at 10 years old , we had to put her down a year or so later. Phugg Iams and Purina horsechitt.

We feed our 3 Shepards Costco's Kirkland Natures Domain as recommended by our dog trainer. We free feed them the dry food, but they don't eat a whole bunch of it. For breakfast they typically get scrambled eggs, a cup of oatmeal and 1/2 cup of plain yogurt. Their dinner is usually rotisserie chickens my wife picks up after work which we de-bone first.
In the fall they get lots of venison, sometimes raw but more often cooked. Always a peanut butter ball for desert. And on weekends they get sardines for snacks.
Their favorite dinner, by far, is 'Raising Cane's' chicken fingers. They can make short work of a forty pack.
But, hey, we're those crazy dog people who like our dogs more than our children. After all, the dogs are always happy to see me and never ask for money.

They need variety in their diet and just feeding them Kibble IMHO will not do it, no matter how good it is.

Goes somewhat against my premise, but the longest lived dog I ever had was the Chihuahua we bought as a puppy when I was three. She finally had to be put down when I was 21 (could finally no longer walk, and was, by that point, almost completely blind, too). She ate, almost exclusively, table scraps throughout her life.

Here is some more info on diet choices.
https://therawfeedingcommunity.com/2018/02/08/grain-free-diets-and-dcm/
https://therawfeedingcommunity.com/2017/11/19/what-kibble-should-i-feed-my-dog/

There's a lot of garbage out there marketed to the soccer mom, fur-baby crowd. Grain free this, organic that marketing BS. I raise and train performance dogs and feed what almost all of the top retriever and pointer field trial trainers feed.

If you have a working dog, feed a quality 30/20 feed from Victor, Purina or Eukanuba. My working labs get 3-4 cups a day.

If you have a couch potato house dog, feed the same thing, just less of it so Fido doesn't become obese, like most pet dogs. If you get down to 2 cups a day (for a 50-75 pound dog) and he's still fat, drop to a lower protein/fat food. But avoid the designer labels and grain-free formulas. Just feed good feed from an established company with a long track record.

It ain't rocket surgery. Don't overthink it.

I had couch potatoes and too much protein caused evil farts. So store brand Purina. Also has more bulk to prevent constipation. Very little is more pathetic than a constipated dog. My favorite vet was dead set against ANY people food. First what's nutritionally sound for people isn't necessarily sound for dogs. Secondly he saw a lot of obese dogs being killed with kindness. I disagree in part, after us big dogs ate the lesser dogs, if they didn't beg got to eat. But only a tidbit to acknowledge them as pack members in good standing.

I'm doing the raw diet from a local distributor. Frequently, I'll mix in tuna, cooked salmon and extra veggies. In a pinch, if I need dry food, it's always Orijen or Acana

I have run all age pointing dogs my whole adult life. and about 40 years ago I did the research from ground zero to see what would help them out. It came down to roughly 20% digestible protein and 15% or so fat with the rest made up in carbs. Supplement with fat and bump the supplements when the dogs work a lot. Feed an extra meal at noon on work days to get enough calories into them to keep them going. For a machine like an all age pointing dog you basically need to feed them like a Tour de France racer. Get as much calories in easy (quick) to digest carbs into them as they will take and keep the protein down to a minimum because it takes too much water through the kidneys to get rid of the nitrogen, and when the go low on water they overheat in a hurry and the consequences of that are not good on a dog carrying about zero fat. Fat and carbs are very helpful. Converting protein to energy is water intensive and getting rid of the by products of that conversion takes more water if you want to avoid damage to the dog.

Purina maintains that dog food research lab down in Iowa for a very good reason and they do some damn good work there.

This is an interesting relevant read that poses serious questions about the study.

https://medium.com/@danielschulof_18279/bad-science-and-big-business-are-behind-the-biggest-pet-food-story-in-a-decade-5cdafae7be77

Two huge takeaways.

The study was not peer reviewed, and the authors of the study have financial ties to grain containing dog food companies.

Is that for your "Husky?"















I'll show myself out....