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Posted By: luv2safari 9/11 Victim Fund BS! - 07/20/19
Why should I, my family, or all other Americans pay for what happened to people and their families that day? It's total BS that we need to fork over billions to them.

Nobody came to my rescue when I fell off a roof, helping a homeowner get their damaged roof repaired. I'm now partially crippled from that.

Nobody came to my rescue when I almost lost my home and small farm when I got cancer.

Nobody came to the rescue of my son's best friend who was killed in a tragic auto accident last week, leaving a wife and children.

Why should we all be nicked collectively to compensate families of business people, secretaries, maintenance workers, visitors, first responders, pedestrians walking by, etc. at the site of the Twin Towers?

Personal responsibility and common sense are now things of the past in this country.
Posted By: rockinbbar Re: 9/11 Victim Fund BS! - 07/20/19
"We" shouldn't have to.

But sometimes it's the right thing to do.... after people were sickened and died trying to save lives after a terrorist group created a national emergency.

Culpability lies completely on the terrorists and whoever supports them. But it might be a bit hard to collect from them now.
Posted By: MD521 Re: 9/11 Victim Fund BS! - 07/20/19
They're talking about extending the benefits until 2090. I don't know what they are thinking. It was a tragic event but compensation for 89 years is unbelievable. I always thought fireman signed up to be fireman, police signed up to police, etcetera, etcetera.
Posted By: simonkenton7 Re: 9/11 Victim Fund BS! - 07/20/19
I live in the NC mountains, but, my neighbor had an apartment in New York in 2001. I was interested in being a volunteer to help clean up after the towers collapsed. New York was calling for volunteers. The New York officials, Guiliani and them, were saying that the area was non toxic. It was safe to work in that zone. I looked at the videos of that huge pile of trash, you know there was probably asbestos, and all kind of toxic crap for you to breathe if you were working there.

I thought it would be pretty cool to go hang out in Manhattan for a couple of months, I had a free place to stay, and help in the clean up. But I smelled a rat and decided not go to. Thank God I took a pass on that adventure.
Posted By: luv2safari Re: 9/11 Victim Fund BS! - 07/20/19
Originally Posted by MD521
They're talking about extending the benefits until 2090. I don't know what they are thinking. It was a tragic event but compensation for 89 years is unbelievable. I always thought fireman signed up to be fireman, police signed up to police, etcetera, etcetera.



And they have far better benefits than I ever had.

I guess we all have to pay for any and all shattered lives, whatever the reason. I grew up with the belief that we take responsibility for our Own lives and our families' welfare. There were no individual government bail outs and lifelong paydays.
Posted By: smarquez Re: 9/11 Victim Fund BS! - 07/20/19
Originally Posted by MD521
They're talking about extending the benefits until 2090. I don't know what they are thinking. It was a tragic event but compensation for 89 years is unbelievable. I always thought fireman signed up to be fireman, police signed up to police, etcetera, etcetera.


In 2090 there will be no real financial impact. In 20 years the financial impact will be pretty small. As far as falling off the roof and what not, you made that choice and bless you for it. Those firemen were dispatched and couldn't say no. They couldn't back out once they got on scene. If you had a family member missing, you would not have wanted them to quit searching just to save their own asses 20 years later.
Posted By: 19352012 Re: 9/11 Victim Fund BS! - 07/20/19
Posted By: marktheshark Re: 9/11 Victim Fund BS! - 07/20/19
So according to many of y'alls line of thinking, combat injured vets also shouldnt get disabilty benefits nor their survivors recieve any death benefits either, cause they signed up for it.....fuggin unreal!!!
Posted By: luv2safari Re: 9/11 Victim Fund BS! - 07/20/19
Originally Posted by smarquez
Originally Posted by MD521
They're talking about extending the benefits until 2090. I don't know what they are thinking. It was a tragic event but compensation for 89 years is unbelievable. I always thought fireman signed up to be fireman, police signed up to police, etcetera, etcetera.


In 2090 there will be no real financial impact. In 20 years the financial impact will be pretty small. As far as falling off the roof and what not, you made that choice and bless you for it. Those firemen were dispatched and couldn't say no. They couldn't back out once they got on scene. If you had a family member missing, you would not have wanted them to quit searching just to save their own asses 20 years later.



My job gave me no choice but go onto that roof. Does that qualify me for a government paycheck?

Those firemen signed on to do this kind of work and had many safety nets built into the job.

Do any other family members of missing people get a fat check? Don't we pay for emergency services already and pay for searches?

My point is that just because it happened on a large scale, does that make it more morally correct to fork over?
Posted By: Mike_S Re: 9/11 Victim Fund BS! - 07/20/19
Part of this compensation is medical screening for the first responders who responded/became infected with the by-products of that incident. No one signed up to breath ground up building materials/human remains. They rushed in as everyone rushed out.
Posted By: flintlocke Re: 9/11 Victim Fund BS! - 07/20/19
Often wondered about how this drags on. Some fairly respectable organizations did some informal audits in the months following the twin towers, and apparently enough was donated to compensate the heirs of the victims nearly a million bucks per victim! Wonder how much they actually received? Where did it all go?
This doesn't address the post disaster workers, but on every job I ever worked on, there is workers compensation and long term disability and survivors death benefits. If a guy dies of a work related illness or injury, his pay goes on to his family until the children turn 18 or the spouse remarries. For a guy receiving medical services for a job related injury, workers comp picks up the tab 100%. All this is separate from social security benefits. So what's happening, is the City of New York insurance carriers denying the workmens comp claims???
Posted By: luv2safari Re: 9/11 Victim Fund BS! - 07/20/19
Originally Posted by Mike_S
Part of this compensation is medical screening for the first responders who responded/became infected with the by-products of that incident. No one signed up to breath ground up building materials/human remains. They rushed in as everyone rushed out.



They sure do sign up to do very hazardous work. They weren't drafted or coerced into taking the jobs. I greatly admire their bravery and dedication, just as I admire the workers at Chernobyl.

Also...also, this happened in the City of New York. It's the City's responsibility, not a nationwide responsibility.
Posted By: luv2safari Re: 9/11 Victim Fund BS! - 07/20/19
Originally Posted by marktheshark
So according to many of y'alls line of thinking, combat injured vets also shouldnt get disabilty benefits nor their survivors recieve any death benefits either, cause they signed up for it.....fuggin unreal!!!



Where did you get that from??

The compensation is part of signing on, and it's a promise by government. They have a right to it.

What's fuggin unreal is your reaction to reality. First responders have their union negotiated benefits. Servicemen have government benefits (although I don't feel they're sufficient in many cases).

What's unreal is taking from those who have nothing to do with NYC in any way and nothing to do with the disaster and giving it those who chose to live in a city that's a target for this type of attack.

What's unreal is the "You owe Me" attitude rife in this country. The right is moving left, as witnessed here.
Posted By: Mike_S Re: 9/11 Victim Fund BS! - 07/20/19
An individual, except the President, elected or appointed to an office of honor or profit in the civil service or uniformed services, shall take the following oath: “I, AB, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.” This section does not affect other oaths required by law.

(Pub. L. 89–554, Sept. 6, 1966, 80 Stat. 424.)

I believe the events of 9/11 fall under defending the Constitution. Since the Constitution covers all Americans perhaps all Americans should pay.
Flame on.
Posted By: luv2safari Re: 9/11 Victim Fund BS! - 07/20/19
Originally Posted by Mike_S
An individual, except the President, elected or appointed to an office of honor or profit in the civil service or uniformed services, shall take the following oath: “I, AB, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.” This section does not affect other oaths required by law.

(Pub. L. 89–554, Sept. 6, 1966, 80 Stat. 424.)

I believe the events of 9/11 fall under defending the Constitution. Since the Constitution covers all Americans perhaps all Americans should pay.
Flame on.



So why are we paying families of clerical workers, hedge fund managers, stock brokers, diamond merchants, importers, insurance agencies.......?

There's nothing in the Oath that implies vast payments to those oath takers. If those jobs there are like they are here, there's a long line of good men and women trying to get the jobs. I'm damned glad they are there, and I'm glad they have protections. I'm sure we all are.

What the hell...welfare for everyone, cradle to grave, and government needs to give ALL of us enough to live on.
Posted By: JSTUART Re: 9/11 Victim Fund BS! - 07/20/19
Originally Posted by luv2safari


So why are we paying families of clerical workers, hedge fund managers, stock brokers, diamond merchants, importers, insurance agencies.......?

There's nothing in the Oath that implies vast payments to those oath takers. If those jobs there are like they are here, there's a long line of good men and women trying to get the jobs. I'm damned glad they are there, and I'm glad they have protections. I'm sure we all are.

What the hell...welfare for everyone, cradle to grave, and government needs to give ALL of us enough to live on.



Simple enough, the media will crucify any government that says no.

Votes.
Posted By: FieldGrade Re: 9/11 Victim Fund BS! - 07/20/19
I don't like it either but I'd rather see tax money go there than to some donuffin welfare rat.

Same thing with farm subsidies....I'd rather see my money go to a hard working 3rd/4th generation farmer than to big Ag. or to bail out GMC.

But once again when the gubment gets involved whether it's dolling out freebies or voting for politicians we spend our lives settling for the lesser of two evils.

It's enough to drive ya to drink.
Posted By: luv2safari Re: 9/11 Victim Fund BS! - 07/20/19
That's a great point! Better to help families of folks who actually worked and paid taxes, for sure.
Posted By: mtnsnake Re: 9/11 Victim Fund BS! - 07/20/19
Why does my insurance go up when there is a fire in California or a hurricane in Florida?
Posted By: luv2safari Re: 9/11 Victim Fund BS! - 07/20/19
Originally Posted by mtnsnake
Why does my insurance go up when there is a fire in California or a hurricane in Florida?



Capitalism...
Posted By: Mannlicher Re: 9/11 Victim Fund BS! - 07/20/19
There is no reason Americans should be paying for 9/11 damage. Sue the [bleep] Saudis if you need some cash.
Originally Posted by simonkenton7
I live in the NC mountains, but, my neighbor had an apartment in New York in 2001. I was interested in being a volunteer to help clean up after the towers collapsed. New York was calling for volunteers. The New York officials, Guiliani and them, were saying that the area was non toxic. It was safe to work in that zone. I looked at the videos of that huge pile of trash, you know there was probably asbestos, and all kind of toxic crap for you to breathe if you were working there.

I thought it would be pretty cool to go hang out in Manhattan for a couple of months, I had a free place to stay, and help in the clean up. But I smelled a rat and decided not go to. Thank God I took a pass on that adventure.



This pretty much covers it.

It was a bad time. We, collectively through our elected representatives, told them it was safe and asked for help. It wasn't, they got sick, so now we need to help those who helped during this terrible event.

It's a very bad idea to not to, because next time, after the next terrorist attack, you might not get any volunteers.....
Posted By: marktheshark Re: 9/11 Victim Fund BS! - 07/20/19
Originally Posted by luv2safari
Originally Posted by Mike_S
An individual, except the President, elected or appointed to an office of honor or profit in the civil service or uniformed services, shall take the following oath: “I, AB, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.” This section does not affect other oaths required by law.

(Pub. L. 89–554, Sept. 6, 1966, 80 Stat. 424.)

I believe the events of 9/11 fall under defending the Constitution. Since the Constitution covers all Americans perhaps all Americans should pay.
Flame on.



So why are we paying families of clerical workers, hedge fund managers, stock brokers, diamond merchants, importers, insurance agencies.......?

There's nothing in the Oath that implies vast payments to those oath takers. If those jobs there are like they are here, there's a long line of good men and women trying to get the jobs. I'm damned glad they are there, and I'm glad they have protections. I'm sure we all are.

What the hell...welfare for everyone, cradle to grave, and government needs to give ALL of us enough to live on.



Well those people were killed as a result of a terrorist attack directed against THIS COUNTRY, not their particular employer etc, so who else would pay? Many insurance policies have exclusions regarding acts of terror.


I dont consider being compensated because a loved one of yours was killed in a terror attack as the same as welfare. Alot worse things my tax dollars are used for!

As an aside this is a touchy subject for me as a former career firefighter(forced out by non job related medical issue) and currently an active volunteer firefighter/emt and fire service instructor, who personally knew several FDNY members killed that day and since then from medical conditions linked to the aftermath.
Posted By: Swifty52 Re: 9/11 Victim Fund BS! - 07/20/19
So just how many of them that were actually at ground zero or worked around it are going to be alive 89 years after to make a claim?
My point is Mesothelioma claims are limited to 6 years in most circumstances. My thinking is the symptoms are going to show up long before 89 years. I mean damn a new born on that day in that area could claim their cancer that developed at 87 years of age was due to 911.
Posted By: luv2safari Re: 9/11 Victim Fund BS! - 07/20/19


"Many insurance policies have exclusions regarding acts of terror."

Good Point!



"Well those people were killed as a result of a terrorist attack directed against THIS COUNTRY, not their particular employer etc, so who else would pay? "

What does that have to do with murder? This was mass murder, granted, but how does it differ from one young lady being killed by a Muzzie Uber driver? Do we compensate victims of all Muslim carried out hate crimes? WHY should we pay? Not one of us here guaranteed any of them a life free of harm.

The MSM has taught you well.
Posted By: tikka77 Re: 9/11 Victim Fund BS! - 07/20/19
'IF' the people affected by the tragedy get the funds and get help...i don't mind if not then i am out.
Posted By: ElkSlayer91 Re: 9/11 Victim Fund BS! - 07/20/19
Originally Posted by luv2safari
Why should I, my family, or all other Americans pay for what happened to people and their families that day? It's total BS that we need to fork over billions to them.


“Oh…you have no decency for human kindness.”
Posted By: TBREW401 Re: 9/11 Victim Fund BS! - 07/20/19
It is hard to believe that folks in the Florida panhandle, or the Tornado and flood ravaged areas, who have no homes, or towns , would like their tax money to go to New York for folks who have union and insurance benefits.
There was many millions raised for those folks, and not much for the others!
Posted By: Virginian2 Re: 9/11 Victim Fund BS! - 07/20/19
The 9/11 tragedy was enormous by tragedy standards and easy for the media, politicians and celebrities to get a lot of attention from supporting it.
The simple fact is that bad things happen to good people and the vast majority are not compensated anywhere near what has been done for the 9/11 victims.
According to USA TODAY on the most dangerous jobs, Firefighters are 24th, Police are 18th, Construction workers 12th, Power-line workers 10th,
Farmers & Ranchers 8th, Truck drivers 7th, Steel workers 6th, Roofers 4th, Pilots 3rd, Loggers 2nd and the Fishing industry 1st.
So, are Firefighters and Police more important than the people that build houses, put food on your tables and deliver goods to the stores, etc?
Posted By: Gun_Geezer Re: 9/11 Victim Fund BS! - 07/20/19
More socialst bull crap. That is all.
Posted By: tikka77 Re: 9/11 Victim Fund BS! - 07/21/19
There's a goFund me for every tragedy now.
Posted By: local_dirt Re: 9/11 Victim Fund BS! - 07/24/19
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by simonkenton7
I live in the NC mountains, but, my neighbor had an apartment in New York in 2001. I was interested in being a volunteer to help clean up after the towers collapsed. New York was calling for volunteers. The New York officials, Guiliani and them, were saying that the area was non toxic. It was safe to work in that zone. I looked at the videos of that huge pile of trash, you know there was probably asbestos, and all kind of toxic crap for you to breathe if you were working there.

I thought it would be pretty cool to go hang out in Manhattan for a couple of months, I had a free place to stay, and help in the clean up. But I smelled a rat and decided not go to. Thank God I took a pass on that adventure.



This pretty much covers it.

It was a bad time. We, collectively through our elected representatives, told them it was safe and asked for help. It wasn't, they got sick, so now we need to help those who helped during this terrible event.

It's a very bad idea to not to, because next time, after the next terrorist attack, you might not get any volunteers.....




.gov officials lying to American citizens? Say it ain't so!
Posted By: Fireball2 Re: 9/11 Victim Fund BS! - 07/24/19
Originally Posted by luv2safari
The right is moving left, as witnessed here.


See it every day on the campfire.
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