I hesitate to even bring this up, but I have been trying to think of a way to stop young, immature, irrational and emotional people from committing these horrible and disgusting events, while protecting our right to bear arms. It has to be effective or it would just limit rights for all responsible and lawful gun owners and do nothing to fix the problem.

In the vast majority of multiple victim shootings the perp was under 28 years old and used a semi-auto rifle.

This firearm has been made the focus of new opposition to the 2nd. It is certainly possible to see reinstatement to another ban on semi-auto rifles at some point in the future, especially if the left gains full power.

In an effort to put a complete ban out of reach of the anti's, and still reduce these shootings, I have a proposal. Hear me out.

Pass legislation that bans possession of only semi-auto rifles by anyone until they reach the age of 28. Exceptions for any military or law enforcement would be written in. A full on background check on mental health would be conducted on purchasers ages 28 and 29 and thereafter revert to standard checks as they are today. Also, a key caveat would make this law unassailable for 50 years from institution, thus ensuring it's lawful ownership by the vast majority into the future.

My thought is it would insure the firearm is protected and immature humans would still be able to own the firearm in their future.

Go ahead and poke holes in the thought. I have concerns on any gun legislation, but the reality is if the left gets power, anything could happen.

Your thoughts?

Las Vegas- - - -nuff said.
Jerry

I propose that any laws affecting the 2A should be first applied to the 1st amendment as a trial run. Let's see how that works first.

"SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

That phrase should poke plenty of holes in your ridiculous thought.

Sterilizing anyone who votes democrat would nearly eradicate the problem in one or two generations with no need for new laws.

Perhaps you'd feel more comfortable at the democraticunderground forum from whence you came.

Please tell me how that would be accomplished.

MM

By a flaming liberal psych doctor who thinks all gun owners are nuts.

Go Fahq yourself. You better start recognizing the Enemy as the Enemy and there is a battlefield headed our way.

And BTW, I'm not convinced you're not in the enemy camp.

Are you a Russian bot? WTF is legistration?

Well that went well.

I kinda figured that it would bring this kinda response. Not really surprising .

It was an honest attempt to think preemptively.

If you have a cake and a politicians wants half of it, you don't give him a quarter of it and walk away proud of your negotiating skills. You tell him go go pee up a rope.

Capitulation isn't thinking preemptively.

Good Grief!

There are no restrictions on any other right so long as the free exercise thereof does not harm another person, why should the right to defend ones self have limits? The right to vote is even more important and impactful than the right to self defense, so following your logic, people that are too immature to know when their life is endangered should also be restricted from voting until they can 'prove' their fitness to cast an informed vote. The problem lies in not enforcing the existing laws, not in the lack of laws. It is already illegal for person adjudicated (due process) incompetent to possess a firearm. Remember the Texas church shooter that was stopped by an armed neighbor who chased him down? The STATE failed to report his dishonorable discharge (felony), the STATE failed to report his mental condition to the ATF, and the STATE failed to follow it's own rules and duties to execute the existing enforcement mechanisms that they were obligated to do. Bugs the crap out of me when a person fails to follow procedure and the response from those in charge feel the need to implement even more procedures. It's not the fault of the procedure, it's the fault of the person who didn't follow it.
So, if a deranged dude can't get a semi-auto, he could just get a semi-auto or even a pump shotgun. Pretty sure you can do quite a bit of damage even with a pump shotgun or lever action 30-30. The problem with technology is there is no way to put the genie back in the bottle. 150 years ago, no one could figure out a lightbulb. Now pretty much any competent craftsman could make on if he really needed to. Same with firearms.
Instead of focusing on the symptom, which is what a mass shooting is, we should focus on the cause. The lack of accountability, lack of empathy, and increasing focus on the importance of "me". When the kid finds out the world does not revolve around them, they lack the moral foundation to cope.

If you agree to a background check for voting, or for worshiping, or for speaking, or before you are allowed access to legal representation, or before you are allowed access to public records, or before you are allowed a jury trial, I may entertain your idea for increased restrictions on the 2nd

Diesel;
Good evening to you sir, I trust all is well with you and yours tonight.

If I may, I'll answer this from the perspective of a Canuck and will try to articulate as briefly as possible what legislation and law we're bound by.

As many of you may know, there is no right to possess firearms in Canada, it's considered by the Supreme Court to be a privilege. Thanks to Alberta, when the constitution was repatriated here, we have no right to private property actually - but....

In order to possess any firearm, we must be 18 and take a one day course, which we must pass, then submit to a background check which includes interviews of references we provide. If we've changed jobs, been to a doctor about mental illness, had a marital or relationship change it can cancel it all then and there. If it doesn't, we then we wait anywhere up to 6 months to get what's known as a PAL - Possession Acquisition Licence.

Oh, if we want to own restricted class firearms - which is either handguns or AR/AK/FAL type long arms, then it's a 2 day course with the same background check and waiting period.

From what I'm given to understand the mere fact that I've got what's known as an RPAL - Restricted Possession Acquisition Licence - means that the central registry folks check on my status at least weekly - that is that I've not been seen by a doctor for mental issues, had a divorce, been fired - you get the idea.

Our restricted class firearms are all registered and their use highly - well restricted - we can only shoot them at approved ranges, must transport them with a lock on them and in a locked container.

Anyway sir, with ALL THOSE PREEMPTIVE measures, we still have folks shooting each other - though it appears that most of the miscreants do not ever go through legal channels to obtain their firearms for nefarious purposes.

The last mass shooter in Toronto brought his illegal handgun up from Michigan - I believe he had a ban from possession of firearms actually and of course it did absolutely no good whatsoever.

The issue up here is not a tool issue - it's a people issue - but no current politicians have the required spinal anatomy to even mention that little wrinkle.

I'd be surprised if that wasn't the issue south of the medicine line as well, but again as a foreigner I'd not want to guess or comment on what might work for you good neighbors. Simply sir, I relate what doesn't work up here.

All the best to you as we head into the fall hunting season.

Dwayne

I’m sure if you willingly give up some rights that they will stop trying to kill the 2A. 🙄

The thing that happens before confiscration.

Then castration

Article in local paper about the local chapter of Moms Demand Action and the initial rally this weekend. Spearheaded by none other than my kids’ pediatrician. We are doctor shopping now. The same ones rallying for gun control are the ones determining mental competence at 28?

[quote=DieselIn the vast majority of multiple victim shootings the perp was under 28 years old and used a semi-auto rifle.[/quote]


Simple........Ban Millennials!

I see mental health issues as the core problem with these kids going ballistic. Red flag laws will be worse as everyone could be subject to any vindictive person you may have crossed in the past. Mental issues would only come into play from formal input from a licensed doctor. That young people today seem to mature at a later age could add to the issue we did not have 30 years ago

I don't have a detailed strategy, just thinking about the problem and some way to reduce the number of incidents. The reason to float any idea is to hear others input

This topic brings out the long knives when anyone even tries to have a thought put forward.

I disagree with your first sentence. You do have the right to defend yourself, and you do have the right to private property. Your creator endowed you with those rights. Your government chooses not to recognize those rights. They are self evident.

The issue everywhere is a people issue.

First off "shall not be infringed" means just that, therefore I think all limitations on firearm ownership are unconstitutional. Presently we have numerous laws and procedures that infringe on our right. Enforce those laws and improve the background check system so things don't go unreported. We don't need more laws. We need better and more efficient enforcement of existing laws.

Hot
,
Yeah, I get that. Not saying the idea would stop all shooters, just maybe stop the young and dumb.

And why would that be? If we address the reason for later maturation, we would find an answer to the problem.

Sprint11:
Good evening to you sir, thanks for the reply.

I very much disagree with it too.

There are many of us working to attempt to change the silliness of how the Canadian Supreme Court views things, but it's slow going to say the least.

Could not have said it better or believed any different either - my Creator has given me rights and inherent responsibilities along with them and my government doesn't believe in any of the 3 - rights, responsibility or a Creator!

Thanks for validating my theory on it being a people issue too, I'd have to say most of the evidence supports it as far as I can see.

All the best to you this fall and good luck on your hunts.

Dwayne

Look, I don't want to give any right away. Mine or yours or anyone else's. I get the don't give an inch point of view and don't trust the left at any level. It just seems prudent to have thought out what to do before the problem is upon us. Find a way to stop the anti's and slow the shootings. it is open for discussion.

I am just as angry as anyone here that we are faced with an every day fight to defend our rights. If we cannot talk about it among a basically like minded forum without cutting each others throats, then we have already lost.

The whole reason to fight to keep semi-auto is to have a chance to save the way of life we have. It isn't for hunting.

The next generations will be who decides going forward. In twenty years most of us will be gone.

And for all you guys that think I am the enemy and my idea is stupid, what is your idea?

Find a way to stop the antis? Never happen. Slow the shootings? Murder rates are actually down, except in area's completely controlled by the antis. I still believe in punitive effectiveness, that is, make the punishment so unappealing it does act as a deterrent. The current penal system is ineffective because of the antis. Why? The antis are the ones screaming for "something" to be done, but when something is actually done, the antis scream that the punishment is mean and should be softer. The culture of lawlessness in 1990s NY/Chicago/Detroit was dealt with by increasing prosecutions and actively policing the areas. After the reduction in crime, those same liberals are screaming that prisons are too full. Yes, the U.S. has the largest prison population.......and I believe we should build more.

This is so true.
I don't remember when, but California passed a 3 Strikes law quite a while back and not long afterwards the papers were full of stories about people stealing a 12 pack or something else at gunpoint and going to jail for life.

All of them whining how it was wrong to send some to prison for life because he stole some beer or 50 dollars from a cash register.

You failed to recognize the true goal of the left.
An END to private ownership of firearms.
Nothing else will satisfy them

Your proposal will help them get closer to the goal, but they won't stop. EVER

Outlaw gun free zones!

Encourage school teachers, K-16 to keep an effective weapon in their desk drawer, and become trained in its effective use.

Execute any cop who abandons children under his guard to die while he "shelters in place".

it is no coincidence that we have never had a mass shooting in a doughnut shop or a gun show.

Look at who does the shootings. Almost everyone of them have been democrats. They believe in violence to stop the conservatives.

The first step to stopping mass shootings is to stop gun control

A foreign concept these days but maybe start with some responsible parenting.


As far as more laws go........we already have plenty but the courts don't enforce em.

I suppose we could rename the Bill of Rights the Bill of Suggestions and rip out the Preamble with that unalienable rights garbage. But then you'd be destroying the basis upon which this country was founded. I think they call the results tyranny of the majority which is what you see in Canada and across Europe. And don't forget that there is a cost to having liberty in that there is always the possibility that people may misuse that liberty. Of course we can easily prevent that by removing that liberty or add restrictions to the point that the liberty effectively ceases to exist.

Understood... But let's 'think' about the US Constitution.... We already have literally thousands of gun laws already on the books... What's another law gonna do?

NO.

You are thinking just like the anti's!!! You want to restrict the law abiding instead of fixing the mental health issue. They don't want to fix the mental health issue because there is money in it. They don't want to make us safer, they just want us unarmed, no matter what it takes. Regarding your idea, what about semi auto shotguns with an extended mag tube? Will that be next???? So, if you are going to propose something useful, focus on the issue, not the tool that the crazy people use, because there are sane people that like those tools too!

Small giveaways all add up in the end to losing the 2nd amendment. I am not in favor of giving up anything.

Actually not true at all. The very very few attacks the media like to popularize used said rifle but the vast amount of multiple (and single victim) shootings use handguns.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/476409/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-weapon-types-used/

While I appreciate your sentiment that we need to understand the cause and work to prevent them, I'm not sure what adding another law to the 22,000+ federal, state, local firearms laws we have will do to prevent them. We need to focus on the people doing these crimes and enforce the laws we have.

A constitutional amendment is obviously the answer- - - - - - -do the numbers "18" and "21" ring any bells? Lathes and Bridgeport mills producing black market guns in clandestine machine shops will get as popular as backwoods distilleries were in the Roaring 20's if the 2nd. Amendment ever goes away, and there will probably be a future President's campaign financed by a gunrunner father instead of an international bootlegger. Those who fail to study history are doomed to repeat its mistakes.
Jerry

Gun control seems like it should be a low priority. Look at all the other ways US citizens kill them selfs and others.
Texting and driving, DWI’s and drug overdoses come to mind.
Gun control allows the government to have control over its citizens. Look what’s going on in Hong Kong . Hasbeen

First off...the real problem needs to be addressed...its not a gun issue...its a crazy person issue. Blame the people responsible.

Second NONE of these efforts by the left have anything whatsoever to do with crime or mass shootings, their agenda is to disarm the law-abiding populace. Never lose sight of that fact, or what happens if they succeed.

That said.....I'm not a fan of these new ideas..

Easy fix. Do away with ALL gun laws, allow everyone to carry open or concealed, then when one of these kooks tries to pull a mass shooting, return fire.....

Mass shootings have nothing to do with gun control laws except where such laws garantee minimal defensive ability on the part of the potential victims. I truly believe that our society took a wrong turn sometime after the Second World War and these events are one of the results. Political polarization, devisiveness, urbanization, a burgeoning population, loss of work ethic, parental unaccountability, are all pieces of the puzzle and no one group has the answers. Liberals tend to want to blame the gun while conservative want to blame anyone who is not in lock-step with them. At least they have sense enough to recognise the problem is not an inanimate object.
There is no question that the Canadian system of licensing gun owners has been wildly unsuccessful if the intent was to reduce the use of firearms in violent crimes. Here again you see the difference in how liberals and conservatives view the failure. Conservatives seem to recognise that this failure only demonstrates that lawbreakers break laws so the passage of more laws accomplishes nothing. Liberals, on the other hand, believe the failure of the law as it exists means that more laws are needed. In Canada especially, the split is less liberal and conservative though and more urban/rural. City dwellers are more likely to favor controls of all sorts while country folks are more likely to be independent people who favor independence. Of course, lines become blurred as more urban people move to the country where they can perform their non-productive jobs via internet connection. Young ruralites move into the cities to find employment because the traditional jobs are gone. So it is that we have urbanites who live in rural settings and ruralites living in the cities but the divide is still recognizable.
Because most of the population dwells in the cities and becaue the liberals are more politically active, I fear that the U.S. is going to see more gun control at some point. We will also see less hunting opportunities and the loss of a traditional, country. way of life and I think that is sad. GD

I'm with jorgeI.

Well OK. So it looks like you folks don't like the idea.

But just to beat a dead horse.
The idea was to not give up much while letting the little snowflakes grow up some without killing somebody. They didn't lose their rights, just delayed them. And semi-autos were locked in for another 50 years.

Being 66 years old and having a rifle in my hands since about age 7 or 8, I don't remember this happening back in the day.
AR's were not around in my experience and nobody thought of killing en mass. I didn't have to worry about them coming for my semi because I didn't have one. Hard to miss what you never had.

So America has changed and there is little chance it will be as I knew it. Lots of reasons for the times we have now that we point out here at the fire every day. I guess one might as well get ready for the days ahead

I side with having as much firepower as those who would try to take away the 2nd. But we will never have an equal fight. I know the reason to defend every bit of the turf, so no need to drive that point home to me.

It was my attempt to find a solution and nobody here likes it, so end of discussion.

I know full well the antis will never stop. The fight for freedom is an eternal struggle.

Carry on.

THIS is a GREAT point. Way too many "soft" targets.

Very well stated...

Yep - especially these idiotic "gun free zones"...

It is like trying to negotiate with some that wants to kill you.

Nothing you give up or away,promise will do.

They want you gone.

You can't satisfy them with anything less.

How does any of that stop criminals?

Since I assume you want adult dialogue: a brain doesnt magically appear at 28, .most 18 or 20 year olds do not shoot up things (gangs excepted), the definition of mental illness is vague as is the means to detect it before hand. Right now the AR is demonized, but there are lots of choices, even .22 lr. I have not given a lot of thought about what I would choose, as I am not of a mindset to commit murder; but a 12 ga pump with buckshot would probably be devastating

Well, let's just talk about this.

Let's start with the knee jerk reaction "We MUST do something about this! Oh, the humanity!"
Short of creating a totalitarian state in the spirit of Stalin's USSSR or Mao's China, there is no way to prevent people from committing atrocities. In a free society, until you act, you are free to do what you wish. There are an estimated 350 MILLION firearms in the US. You can ban the sale of all new guns and you don't stop gun crime and mass shootings. If a psycho wants a gun, and is denied one at the store, you think they just give up? No, they can STEAL guns and then shoot everybody up.

So, are you (meaning anyone searching for a solution through some sort of gun regulation) ready to accept that short of having a secret police and confiscation laws, that pretty much anyone can get a gun? After all, how do convicted felons get them? (HINT - steal them or get straw buyers). If anyone can get a gun, then any new gun laws are worthless. Face it, anyone can get a bag of weed and there are plenty of laws regulating weed.

Do more laws make it more difficult for some wacko to something on impulse? Las Vegas was no impulse. El Paso was no impulse. Dayton was no impulse. Columbine was no impulse. Neither was Sandy Hook. Mass shootings are usually planned and therefore any obstacles to procuring firearms can be overcome. Therefore, gun laws designed to deter mass shootings won't, they will only infringe upon the "honest" citizenry.

Let's say the far Left gets all guns banned. How are you going to confiscate them all? Where are they? Who has them? Who's willing to use them to defend their right to own them? How are you going to confiscate them? If you got 13,000 guns turned in everyday, 5 days per week, 52 weeks per year, it would take ONE HUNDRED YEARS to process all of the 350 million. Tell me how that is going to stop shootings anytime in the near future.

So let's assume all the guns are gone, confiscated, not obtainable. There would be no more mass kills, right? No guns = Kumbaya. Liberal Utopia where everyone is safe and free from fear of violence.

Ummm, no. Boston Marathon bombing. OK City bombing. Blind Sheik Omar and the World Trade Center bombing. Mohammed Atta and his bros on 9/11. Sarin gas in the Tokyo subway. Knife attackers in London.

Point is, if somebody wants to phouc people up, lack of access to guns will not stop them. So what good are additional gun laws?

Not much good for anything other than to make people "feel better" because "something was done". It matters not that whatever "was done" is totally worthless, the emotionalism is satisfied because "something was done".

"What is the solution", you ask? There is none short of a complete totalitarian state. Short of that, in a country of 300+ million people, expect this sort of thing from time to time. This is nothing new in the history of mankind. People do this sort of thing. Stay armed and carry. Be aware of the situation. Practice your marksmanship, know the law, and be savvy. Making new laws that have zero effect on mass violence is ridiculous.

Best political approach right now is to "talk about" gun legislation, then as the crisis fades from immediate memory, let any action die in some obscure committee and never come to vote. Otherwise, anyone not demanding mre gun laws is hammered by the MSM and the Left as uncaring.

I know that all of us gun owners wish we still lived in a culture were we could stand on the hill and shout "Outta my cold dead hands!", but that is political suicide today. Must be smarter.

Hat,

You are right. I was temporarily delusional in thinking there was a possible fix.

Seriously, thanks for the post. I just had this long conversation here at home and that is exactly what was said and the same conclusion reached.

As a side note, I appreciate your tone and demeanor. We could use more of that around here.

Take a couple of generations of young men,....turn their female cohorts into screaming, feminist, man hating harpies,...make higher education too expensive for them to participate in,..allow millions of illegals to flow into the country and drive down the pay of unskilled labor to a level that people can't live decently on,...

A small percentage of young men are going to get angry enough about the situation to violently strike out at society.

There's no easy fixes. It's going to take massive societal and cultural changes to put things right again,...and nobody in positions of authority seem interested in working towards those changes.

So,...it'll be what it be.

Go watch Minority Report and get back to us.

this has a lot to do with some of this violent insanity, force unrealistic unnatural culture on people, especially boys and young men and some will rebel and go insane.

You do understand that murder is currently illegal, right? Do you think the folks you are referring to care about laws?

"Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain."

👍

What about the 40 million Americans in that age group who do not commit these acts. What about their rights?

Are you really willing to steal the right of 40 million Americans over the actions of a hand full of bad actors each year?

How about driving?

Should we end all driving privilege at age 70 since a few old people with medical issues run into crowds from time to time?

How about Mid-life crisis? What privileges should we end for all Americans between the ages of 35 and 55?

Since you've determined that age discrimination is acceptable, how about the suspension of rights based upon sex, religion, medical condition, nationality, etc. Darn Irish drink too much so they should be prohibited from buying alcohol, and the same goes for the Methodius. We know all about Catholic priest,so lets prohibit all Catholics from activities involving children, and those darn veterans might have PTSD, so we better take guns away from all of them, and no white people should be allowed to vote because they are all RACIST!.

I'll keep my rights by defending the rights of others.

“No. That is all.” - What you hear when asking me to give up a right. You can take that as it is intended, and buzz off, or you can insist, and get shot in the face. I am a horrible negotiator, always have been. My friends can tell you. I am not interested in bargaining with people who wish me dead and in a mass grave...

This in a nutshell. Boys are raised to be complacent fools. Men need to “dad the phuqq up”, stay off the internet, quit playing video games and letting little Johnny skip out on mowing the grass because the poor baby is too tired from his soccer game and just wants to lay on his ass. Social media is programming these little twerps into little entitled jackasses. Yell at your mom? Your schit is getting rearranged.

The last year I coached soccer was the last year boys and girls played on the same team. I’ve never seen such a pile of crybabies in my life. I can’t remeber a dad of any of the players showing up for schit. Nothing but quitters and the girls beat the snot out of them. That was it for me.

So now we’ve got a whole generation of idiots that are powerless until they’ve googled enough about guns, get their hands on one and feel the power. Once enough switches get filpped in the wrong direction, it’s over.

Raise these pussys into men and it won’t be a problem.

The odds still say a (somewhat) free person can avoid/survive most mass shootings in their lifetime as opposed to having a highly regulatory, statist government dictating in the face of the very law they are heeded in the exercise of. Survival is pretty poor, as is the idea of any freedom.

When the deaths from these shootings exceed traffic crashes, abortions, drug overdoses and the ones caused by cell phones or anything remotely close to an epidemic, I might actually have an open ear. Putting the federal government at the helm of any "fix" will close my ear pretty damn quick (which is why the statists hate us).