Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Thought on gun legistration.

First off...the real problem needs to be addressed...its not a gun issue...its a crazy person issue. Blame the people responsible.

Second NONE of these efforts by the left have anything whatsoever to do with crime or mass shootings, their agenda is to disarm the law-abiding populace. Never lose sight of that fact, or what happens if they succeed.

That said.....I'm not a fan of these new ideas..

Easy fix. Do away with ALL gun laws, allow everyone to carry open or concealed, then when one of these kooks tries to pull a mass shooting, return fire.....

Mass shootings have nothing to do with gun control laws except where such laws garantee minimal defensive ability on the part of the potential victims. I truly believe that our society took a wrong turn sometime after the Second World War and these events are one of the results. Political polarization, devisiveness, urbanization, a burgeoning population, loss of work ethic, parental unaccountability, are all pieces of the puzzle and no one group has the answers. Liberals tend to want to blame the gun while conservative want to blame anyone who is not in lock-step with them. At least they have sense enough to recognise the problem is not an inanimate object.
There is no question that the Canadian system of licensing gun owners has been wildly unsuccessful if the intent was to reduce the use of firearms in violent crimes. Here again you see the difference in how liberals and conservatives view the failure. Conservatives seem to recognise that this failure only demonstrates that lawbreakers break laws so the passage of more laws accomplishes nothing. Liberals, on the other hand, believe the failure of the law as it exists means that more laws are needed. In Canada especially, the split is less liberal and conservative though and more urban/rural. City dwellers are more likely to favor controls of all sorts while country folks are more likely to be independent people who favor independence. Of course, lines become blurred as more urban people move to the country where they can perform their non-productive jobs via internet connection. Young ruralites move into the cities to find employment because the traditional jobs are gone. So it is that we have urbanites who live in rural settings and ruralites living in the cities but the divide is still recognizable.
Because most of the population dwells in the cities and becaue the liberals are more politically active, I fear that the U.S. is going to see more gun control at some point. We will also see less hunting opportunities and the loss of a traditional, country. way of life and I think that is sad. GD

I'm with jorgeI.

Well OK. So it looks like you folks don't like the idea.

But just to beat a dead horse.
The idea was to not give up much while letting the little snowflakes grow up some without killing somebody. They didn't lose their rights, just delayed them. And semi-autos were locked in for another 50 years.

Being 66 years old and having a rifle in my hands since about age 7 or 8, I don't remember this happening back in the day.
AR's were not around in my experience and nobody thought of killing en mass. I didn't have to worry about them coming for my semi because I didn't have one. Hard to miss what you never had.

So America has changed and there is little chance it will be as I knew it. Lots of reasons for the times we have now that we point out here at the fire every day. I guess one might as well get ready for the days ahead

I side with having as much firepower as those who would try to take away the 2nd. But we will never have an equal fight. I know the reason to defend every bit of the turf, so no need to drive that point home to me.

It was my attempt to find a solution and nobody here likes it, so end of discussion.

I know full well the antis will never stop. The fight for freedom is an eternal struggle.

Carry on.

THIS is a GREAT point. Way too many "soft" targets.

Very well stated...

Yep - especially these idiotic "gun free zones"...

It is like trying to negotiate with some that wants to kill you.

Nothing you give up or away,promise will do.

They want you gone.

You can't satisfy them with anything less.

How does any of that stop criminals?

Since I assume you want adult dialogue: a brain doesnt magically appear at 28, .most 18 or 20 year olds do not shoot up things (gangs excepted), the definition of mental illness is vague as is the means to detect it before hand. Right now the AR is demonized, but there are lots of choices, even .22 lr. I have not given a lot of thought about what I would choose, as I am not of a mindset to commit murder; but a 12 ga pump with buckshot would probably be devastating

Well, let's just talk about this.

Let's start with the knee jerk reaction "We MUST do something about this! Oh, the humanity!"
Short of creating a totalitarian state in the spirit of Stalin's USSSR or Mao's China, there is no way to prevent people from committing atrocities. In a free society, until you act, you are free to do what you wish. There are an estimated 350 MILLION firearms in the US. You can ban the sale of all new guns and you don't stop gun crime and mass shootings. If a psycho wants a gun, and is denied one at the store, you think they just give up? No, they can STEAL guns and then shoot everybody up.

So, are you (meaning anyone searching for a solution through some sort of gun regulation) ready to accept that short of having a secret police and confiscation laws, that pretty much anyone can get a gun? After all, how do convicted felons get them? (HINT - steal them or get straw buyers). If anyone can get a gun, then any new gun laws are worthless. Face it, anyone can get a bag of weed and there are plenty of laws regulating weed.

Do more laws make it more difficult for some wacko to something on impulse? Las Vegas was no impulse. El Paso was no impulse. Dayton was no impulse. Columbine was no impulse. Neither was Sandy Hook. Mass shootings are usually planned and therefore any obstacles to procuring firearms can be overcome. Therefore, gun laws designed to deter mass shootings won't, they will only infringe upon the "honest" citizenry.

Let's say the far Left gets all guns banned. How are you going to confiscate them all? Where are they? Who has them? Who's willing to use them to defend their right to own them? How are you going to confiscate them? If you got 13,000 guns turned in everyday, 5 days per week, 52 weeks per year, it would take ONE HUNDRED YEARS to process all of the 350 million. Tell me how that is going to stop shootings anytime in the near future.

So let's assume all the guns are gone, confiscated, not obtainable. There would be no more mass kills, right? No guns = Kumbaya. Liberal Utopia where everyone is safe and free from fear of violence.

Ummm, no. Boston Marathon bombing. OK City bombing. Blind Sheik Omar and the World Trade Center bombing. Mohammed Atta and his bros on 9/11. Sarin gas in the Tokyo subway. Knife attackers in London.

Point is, if somebody wants to phouc people up, lack of access to guns will not stop them. So what good are additional gun laws?

Not much good for anything other than to make people "feel better" because "something was done". It matters not that whatever "was done" is totally worthless, the emotionalism is satisfied because "something was done".

"What is the solution", you ask? There is none short of a complete totalitarian state. Short of that, in a country of 300+ million people, expect this sort of thing from time to time. This is nothing new in the history of mankind. People do this sort of thing. Stay armed and carry. Be aware of the situation. Practice your marksmanship, know the law, and be savvy. Making new laws that have zero effect on mass violence is ridiculous.

Best political approach right now is to "talk about" gun legislation, then as the crisis fades from immediate memory, let any action die in some obscure committee and never come to vote. Otherwise, anyone not demanding mre gun laws is hammered by the MSM and the Left as uncaring.

I know that all of us gun owners wish we still lived in a culture were we could stand on the hill and shout "Outta my cold dead hands!", but that is political suicide today. Must be smarter.

Hat,

You are right. I was temporarily delusional in thinking there was a possible fix.

Seriously, thanks for the post. I just had this long conversation here at home and that is exactly what was said and the same conclusion reached.

As a side note, I appreciate your tone and demeanor. We could use more of that around here.

Take a couple of generations of young men,....turn their female cohorts into screaming, feminist, man hating harpies,...make higher education too expensive for them to participate in,..allow millions of illegals to flow into the country and drive down the pay of unskilled labor to a level that people can't live decently on,...

A small percentage of young men are going to get angry enough about the situation to violently strike out at society.

There's no easy fixes. It's going to take massive societal and cultural changes to put things right again,...and nobody in positions of authority seem interested in working towards those changes.

So,...it'll be what it be.

Go watch Minority Report and get back to us.

this has a lot to do with some of this violent insanity, force unrealistic unnatural culture on people, especially boys and young men and some will rebel and go insane.

You do understand that murder is currently illegal, right? Do you think the folks you are referring to care about laws?

"Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain."

👍

What about the 40 million Americans in that age group who do not commit these acts. What about their rights?

Are you really willing to steal the right of 40 million Americans over the actions of a hand full of bad actors each year?

How about driving?

Should we end all driving privilege at age 70 since a few old people with medical issues run into crowds from time to time?

How about Mid-life crisis? What privileges should we end for all Americans between the ages of 35 and 55?

Since you've determined that age discrimination is acceptable, how about the suspension of rights based upon sex, religion, medical condition, nationality, etc. Darn Irish drink too much so they should be prohibited from buying alcohol, and the same goes for the Methodius. We know all about Catholic priest,so lets prohibit all Catholics from activities involving children, and those darn veterans might have PTSD, so we better take guns away from all of them, and no white people should be allowed to vote because they are all RACIST!.

I'll keep my rights by defending the rights of others.