Trane, Carrier, Rheem, Lennox, other...?

Time to replace the old freon a/c with an R410A unit and the gas furnace is on its last legs as well so I'm going to get the whole works replaced. Will be getting a top and bottom unit which will plug right into the old ductwork. Going off of the idea that, like firearms, cars or any mechanical device, there is more than one brand that is reliable and can do the job but is there any brand of a/c and furnace in particular you would stay away from?

Also, I understand that lesser known brands are made by the same manufacturer but use the same internals, such as Bryant uses the same components as Carrier (according to the ever reliable net ), is that true? Dealing with HVAC salesmen right now and getting bids so it's good to know how to separate the good stuff from the chaff.


PS: Already read up on converting R410A from R22 and what that takes. Also talked to a service guy who kind of gave me a lot of straight skinny on what I need in general - capacity and such for my 1100 sq. ft house - vs. what the sales guys want to sell me.

Personally I think most of them provide a reasonable product. Biggest scam in HVAC is the efficiency issue. No way I'm buying a 99 or 100% efficient heater. They just don't seem to last as long. I don't want better than 85% or worse than 80%. I think that range get's you the best bang for the buck. Make sure you deal with folks who have been in business for a long time. If you don't get the job done, you won't last.

As far as I'm concerned the biggest scam in HVAC is that you always need to replace the heater (or whatever) If they can't replace parts to keep the thing running, in what you have what kind of warranty are they going to provide. Keep them running as long as possible is the song I sing. If they can't do that I don't want to do business with that company. AND, I LET THEM KNOW HOW I FEEL ABOUT IT!!! I don't like a "repair man" to come out and now he's a salesman and doesn't want to do his job.

Tonight or this weekend I'm going to get on my local "Next door Neighbor" social media site to get reviews from folks in the area. A-1 is who installed and serviced the unit so far but the sales guy gave me a quote which required a lot of stoicism not to say "AYFKM!?". Now he could be in the same ballpark as the rest, we'll see. Just starting the new buying process and the more forearmed the better.

On the energy stuff, that's what the service guy told me. He saw my steel targets in the garage and we sat and shot the bull for 15-20 minutes about shooting then I asked him for his advice on what to get. He recommended an 80% 13 seer unit for my little casa so that jives with some of the stuff I've been reading as well.

As far as repair or replace, the a/c and furnace was installed in 1998 so it's probably time, parts and pieces have been replaced already and the a/c is leaking freon at $200/pound. I'm getting a bunch of stuff replaced and fixed up around the house before retiring so I don't have to worry about for a while.

We have had a Trane for 25 years and can't say anything bad about it.

Where my wife works they have Carriers and they work good when they are working.

I had a new system installed in 2018. Or 17, CRS. No matter.

I was advised to stick with the simpler system with a lower SEER rating because all the extra controls in higher SEER rated systems can be troublesome and expensive to deal with when they fail. I believe in SIMPLE.

Another thing I learned is that most of the guts that actually do the work come from the same manufacturers---things like condensers, compressors, etc.

IMO, the quality of the installation is more important than the brand stickers on the equipment.

YMMV.

Go with the "KISS" principle every time.


KISS: Keep It Simple, Stupid.

We have a Trane heat pump/ac and it’s been excellent except it quit working this past end of “summer”. Actually the fan quit working so I figured it was the fan motor since it’s always the more expensive fix whenever something breaks on me. I figured I’d replace the capacitors since the 2 of them combined cost $70 at the electrical supply company and I wanted new capacitors anyway even if the fan motor was the culprit. I plugged in the the capacitors and the unit sprung to life humming away like normal. The unit has run flawlessly since then and instead of the $500-1500 I was quoted it cost me $70 and a couple hours learning more about the unit then I ever desired. They’re relatively simple to work on so as long as you can get parts it ain’t tough to work on yourself.

The parts like capacitors and fan motor were universal brands that ran within certain parameters and as long as the parts matched the parameters they were good to go.

I realize that I probably didn’t help you with your replacement decision but our Trane has worked very well heating and cooling our 3500sq/ft home and repairing it wasn’t terribly complicated. Our unit was installed when the house was built in 2007 so it’s almost 20 years old.

Good luck with your decision and you’ve come to the right place for advice as I’m sure you’ll get a lot of great advice from the collective knowledge of the campfire. 👍

American Standard. Trane parts on the inside at a cheaper price.

Did mine 4 years ago. 5 ton condenser, new horizontal air handler (old unit was a verticle in the wall), new plenum, new gas heater, and new ducts. I also took this opportunity to move it to the other side of the house, since the old one was not exactly where I wanted it.. So, I did have a little electrical done.

$6400 out the door.

I'm more than satisfied.

Clyde

Don't go Trane or Lennox. Most of their parts are proprietary and very exspensive. If you want good bag for your buck go with a 16 seer goodman or bryant or carrier.

Our heater and AC unit was over 20 years old and we had it repaired several times but it reached the point where it was senseless to put any more money into it. About three years ago we had a HVAC unit installed. The brand is Frigidaire and we are very pleased with it. It heats and cools just fine. The system connected to our old ductwork and has a heat pump. I'm still no expert on this stuff but we have no complaints.

To our surprise our electric bill has been cut by 1/3 so the system has been paying for itself. Good luck on your decision.

FWIW, a company here in the Denver area has been running adds on TV for Carrier where if you buy the AC unit, they give you the furnace for free. I don't have any idea on what they are charging, but it's something I've seen them advertise quite often. You might look and/or ask around about a deal like that.

Replaced my 13 year old Heil R22 heat pump a few years ago with Rheem R410a. Not one of the real high SEER models, mine is the top model that is a conventional unit. So far, no complaints, does what it should, haven't had to do anything to it. I do clean the evaporator coil in the spring and again in the fall. The condenser stays clean. I think this helps. I also have a "roof" over the condenser until to keep snow and ice from building up on it. That can cause real damage to the fan.

I have American Standard

I’ve had a few people approach me about buying a used condenser. “My buddy does AC and he just pulled unit out of a house that works fine, the owner just wants to switch everything out”. Always seems to be a Goodman. Cheapest brand too. My gut says it may work, but I will probably spend the money I save on repairs inside of 5 years. I really want to hear more people’s opinion on Goodman.

My Rheem was installed in 2003. 16 years is quite past its intended life expectancy in this environment.

I am a mechanical contractor and my choice of brand would be Armstrong. Lennox industries owns Allied. Allied manufactures Lennox, Armstrong, and Air Ease. In my opinion would not buy or install a Goodman, Carrier, or ICP product.

You’ve got that right! Texas heat kills capacitors.

I have three family members that work at Trane,
aka The Big T
Aka American Standard, Ingersol Rand

They are high as fûck most every shift, opiates, xanax, cheeba.

lol

Union steward lets em know a week or two out before piss tests.

The local heat and air people even use Bryant brand HVAC equipment on their own homes and families’ homes here. That said, it doesn’t cost an arm and a leg to “upgrade” to a name brand.

In the house I'm remodeling, I installed a Rheem ac unit and nat. gas heater.

In the house I'm remodeling, I installed a Rheem ac unit and nat. gas heater.

We use Goodman at work. They seem to be, well good.

They are all about the same. Carrier, Trane, Heil, Ruud, Rheem, Bryant, American Standard. As others have said Carrier and Bryant are, or where last I checked owned by the same company and have similar components. Trane and American Standard were at one time own by the same but I am not sure they are still associated with each other. Ruud and Rheem are the same product with a different label on them.

My suggestion is to find a dealer who you can trust and will give you good service if needed. Then purchase a mid level product from whoever you purchase it from, and I would also suggest purchasing the minimum SEER rating, or very close to it, that will meet the state building codes. Your dealer will know what the code requirements are and greatly exceeding them in your purchase will give you diminishing returns.

I installed a Goodman 3 ton heat pump 5 years ago. changed over from a package unit to a split as we remodeled/added on and moved the unit to a different area. No problems at all and works great. Had about a 40 ft. electrical and copper run to make plus break out a new return duct and insulate all. Have a co-worker that is an HVAC guy and he got me the unit at cost . Installed it all myself and saved a couple of grand. Only thing I need to add to it to make it almost totally care free is an external temp switch to automatically swap from heat pump to strip at lower temps, it rarely gets real cold here though and we just swap it manually at the control....

Me too. It's 10 years old and has survived some pretty tough summers with only one capacitor failure.

Carrier is a POS... the quality control went to hell.

things to ask..

Warranty - 10 year Parts, or Parts and Labor...

My son works in HVAC and he has seen Carrier heat exchanges go bad in 1.5 years... if you have a 1 year warranty you are screwd !

I was an estimator, and new install supervisor for a Bryant dealer.
Bryant/Carrier are very good.
Trane residential condenser out door unit is way beyond better than anybody else.
They bought that fuzzstick design from GE.
25 years if installed right... maybe longer.

Goodman/janitrol used to be very simple generic machines with little to go wrong.
I liked them very much. Copper tubes you can solder repair, simple contactor.

Trane or American Standard. Same/same whichever is priced the best.
Favorite brands of the HVAC mechanics in the facilities shop I ran.

In 2010 we replaced our unit with a 15 seer 2.5 ton Goodman. At the time we got a 10 year parts and labor warranty for close to nothing. We have had zero problems to this day and would buy another when the time comes.

Appreciate all the opinions and advice.

Whatever I do it needs to get done very soon. The furnace is working intermittently, yesterday I turned it up and pretty quickly the house was filled with a sort of hot metal smell so I turned it off. Turned it on again last night and nothing - no fan, no gas flame. Turning on the fan alone produced nothing, it wasn't going, so I left it off overnight. Electric blankets rule.

Fortunately it's not really cold cold here yet, lows in the upper 30's overnight and highs in the 50's, but the house was a bit chilly stepping out of the shower this morning. Just started the furnace up a minute ago to see what happens and it appears normal, fan is turning and the gas flame is normal. I'll let it run a while to get the house up to a tropical 65 or so and shut it down again.

The smell might be several things.
If you have a cracked heat exchanger and the products of combustion enter the stream of ventilation air it could kill you and the family. God forbid.

https://structuretech1.com/qa-heat-exchanger-cracks-and-carbon-monoxide-myths/

In my many years of home ownership that has included six or seven heat pumps, I've decided that the quality of the installer is as important as what brand unit you get. I doubt a reputable contractor is going to recommend junk equipment. Research the contractors in your area to find out who seems to fix something right the first time, who has parts on hand, and who will be available for service calls when needed. Having said that, my good units were Trane and presently Bryant, both installed by contractors who sent competent people to my house both for installation and repairs.

As someone that has installed HVAC equipment for over 25 years, I would advise worrying more about the actual guys installing the equipment. Most of the equipment out nowadays are all pretty much the same. Some equipment will certainly be quieter than others so if that's important then specifically ask about that. Ask A lot about the guys installing it. I wouldn't get excited about how much school they have I would only be concerned about actual experience. If the lead guy doesn't have a minimum of 5 years I wouldn't have them on my job. Having an apprentice there helping is normal but there should be plenty of experience with the other guy.

Most residential installations can be fairly easy and even a handy homeowner can do most of it. The actual A/C end of the job is where you absolutely want the time to be taken to do it correctly. That is where the biggest service cost would come in the future. I put high efficiency equipment in my house because I get it for cost and maintain it myself. I wouldn't pay for it to be installed unless you are replacing a high efficiency furnace That is already there. The simpler the system the easier to install and the less to go wrong. Don't let the salesman sell you on features that NO ONE ever uses. Some of the equipment out there now can do some incredible stuff but I have yet to see a normal homeowner ever benefit for those features.

I used to work for Trane (Commercial) so I'm biased. I have a 16 year old Trane that is still going in Texas weather. American Standard ACs (residential) are made at the same plant as Tranes (Tyler).

No, this is for my home. Small home, in fact, only 1100 sq. ft. Going to replace the whole shebang, new stacked R410a a/c and gas furnace. Service fellow (20 years doing this) who looked at it this past week recommended an 80% 13 seer unit, the salesman from the same company gave me a bid on a Carrier 80% 14 seer 2 1/2 ton unit, 10/2 year warranty on parts/labor. His price is $8445 with financing at 0% for 60 months or $7600 if paid all at once. That prompted me to think YGBFKM but I'm not up on the current prices so just thanked him for the bid.

Will be calling other local companies today and Monday to get more bids.

$8445 for a 2.5 ton unit is way to high. I just had a Goodman 5 ton split system with new gas heater installed in Phoenix for $5800. It is also a 16 seer.

It might be 0% financing for 60 months but that's a $845 fee for the financing. $7600 is on par for that type of job in my area. Depending on that actual work involved maybe a little less but maybe more. Doesn't sound out of line. Always good to follow up with questions on why someone is cheaper or more expensive assuming that the equipment is the same. The difference in equipment could be $1000. Cheap labor could be cheaper inexperienced help. When there's A lot of work or during peak times obviously prices are at a premium. Also it's better to compare prices locally rather than prices from a different market to get a true feel for the going prices

$7600.00 for an 80% --2.5 ton slip in? Never get that much here for that same install.

That's a rip off price unless you have something unusually difficult to install. Get at least three bids; check reviews online and with the BBB. Check for complaints with the Contractors Board.

Yeah, I only have this one bid and so far they're in last place...

Got a PM that recommended some reputable local installers, I've contacted them and will be getting more bids on Monday or Tuesday.

That sounds extremely high to me. We had a heater replaced here at my house about 3 years ago and it seems like it was around $4500. My house is only a little bigger than at 1500 SF.
I know a lady that got taken by a company that "LEASED" her a new heater, AC, and Hot Water heater on a 10 year payment plan. Man, did she get taken. Be careful out there. Some unscrupulous people.
Did you get a quote from anyone on what it would take to just FIX it? This isn't the time of year you find good deals on heaters. Maybe get it replaced next summer when the prices are down. Just a thought.

Look at warranties and cost of replacement parts.

Hey-- they all do the same thing, so how much do you want to spend to get the same -??

we replaced a cast-iron gas unit with a stainless steel unit when the after years of extreme wear the ci unit developed a crack. service man flagged it as unsafe.

we walked, we talked and took bids and discussed all the issues with furnace salesmen who all drove new trucks and talked like they knew it all. and maybe they did.

anyways we settled on an updated trane in both the air conditioner unit and high efficiency gas furnace. we kept our wood heater, just in case.

i think one of the issues now is parts: who makes them, who supplies them, and how much do they cost?

with global warming, maybe the furnaces will become obsolete soon enough.

Another question.

I've been reading up on single sage vs. two stage compressors for a/c. The single stage types focus on cooling a house down quickly at the expense of more energy consumption, while the two stage is a bit slower to cool but then slows down to keep the room cool, the benefit being lower energy usage. as I go into retirement the idea of lower operating costs is definitely appealing since electric bills keep going up and up.

Given that I have a one story 1100 sq. ft. house, albeit the main room has a 12 foot ceiling, could I expect a really significant decrease in energy usage?

Have been getting bids on 13-14 SEER single stage units but a slightly larger initial cost offset by long term reduction in electric bills is a good trade to me, if the actual reduction is significant.



Added: Only have two bids so far, getting two more today, but one for a York a/c furnace combo is offering a 10 year parts and 10 year labor warranty. Apparently York normally only offers a 5 year parts warranty but is running this special through December. Reviews show the York costs a bit more on average than competing brands but the outdoor unit is extremely rugged and should last a very long time.