I never wanted to buy Chinese anything. It was forced upon us by retailers lining their pockets, not by consumers pounding their fist on the table demanding cheap crap. Sure it's nice to save money, but I'd rather buy American and live with the knowledge that MY country is provided for with my purchases not some distant dictatorship.

One time I shopped for work boots and found almost notihng made in the US. I would prefer to buy and pay more for made in the USA. i think most would. Walmarts of the world are pushing chinese goods, not me.

Yes brother preach it. I agree.

Retailers are providing what the customers want.

If companies could make more selling just American, they would. It's interesting how many people preach buying American, but don't back it up with their purchases.

Come on baller, I know you got Double-H money

😃

Justin makes some decently priced USA boots .

Geno

I check source before near all purchases. Did get tricked once for some screwdrivers where the package listed a Chicago company. Once opened, however, they were manufactured in China for a Chicago based company. Might try Whites Boots in Spokane Wa. Good enough that I have 4 pair.

Do not go to Harbor Freight then

amazon has free shipping

..........WHAT ??? You don't like communist dictatorships ???....... You're a RACIST and a BIGOT !!!!!!.........(insert sarcasm icon here).

The truth.

Almost....did you buy them, or the Chinese ones?

obama did his best to kill manufacturing in America. China is not our friend.

[quote=Fireball2]I never wanted to buy Chinese anything. It was forced upon us by retailers lining their pockets, not by consumers pounding their fist on the table demanding cheap crap.

Nonsense. People flood Harbor Freight because they want the value. They demand it. Its the free market economy working as it should.

I had a helluva time finding an American flag made in the USA. Most are made in China. Finally found one down at the local VFW hall.

I don't care so much about the communist part but the nasty f.uckers eat bats and rats and DOGS ! As far as I'm concerned, they should be blackballed from the human race for that.

I've seen Asians as a whole eat things that would make most Americans puke!

"obama did his best to kill manufacturing in America. China is not our friend."

^THIS. LIEberals, Commies & Globalists ARE THE ENEMY! We need to bring back 80-90% of production of food, clothing & medical supplies within the borders of the USA, made by Americans (not imported, undocumented labor). As we're finding with Covid, anything less will bite us (collectively) in the ass!

Fairly fed up with Chink junk and will gladly pay more for quality goods across the board.

While we're on the topic of China didn't Bill Clinton help get China into the WTO? ( World Trade Organization IIRC ). I do recall him selling our missle guidance technology to China against the wishes of his advisors, and I'm pretty sure he was behind that WTO business for them. There sure was a lot of Chinese folks visiting the White House during the Clinton Administration. I remember that well. Funny how that stuff just seems to vanish from history.

Someone please enlighten me as to what comes from Chino that is worthwhile,
tools and almost any products made there are junk
we are in the process of cutting down a bunch of ash trees, the the Emerald Ash Borer have destroyed,
CV,stink bugs, I'm sure there are alot things we can think of.

The opportunity to buy better goods has always been there. The money to do so, not so much.

When old man Walmart was living they sold American products.

Back in the '70's, one of the EPA's early major decisions was to outlaw the glue used to attach soles to shoes and boots. There was no suitable substitute so the entire US shoe industry died almost overnight. Only those with sewn-on soles could be made here. All the rest went to China and other countries.
You can't blame Walmart and others for that initial move. It was our own government.

Try to find any clothes made in the USA.

Probably half the guns are made in foreign countries now, but not in China yet.

I heard recently that they make 95% of our antibiotics.

If true, that is unbelievable. I wonder what else.

This pandemic is going to have a silver lining. Lots of things not known before are now going to float to the top.

Lots of guns make in China. I think it was Bush who stopped the importation of the Chinese SKS's.

Didn't Clinton stop all the guns and Chinese made ammo from being imported ? I know he sold our missle guidance technology to them and I'm pretty sure he helped get them into the WTO, and I seem to recall that it was him who stopped the SKS's coming in. Don't recall the exact year but I bought my first SKS, a Norinco (made in China) at a gun show in 1992 when FFL's would bring crates of them in and sell them for a hundred bucks apiece, brand new right out of the crate. So it was probably some time after 1992.

Ya know, I fix old vehicles to recycle them for mine and others use. I buy local parts and make sure, if possible, that parts are made in the U.S. Has been some time since I bought a new car or truck. I still enjoy turning a wrench. Have no new tools as I don’t like chink crap. Therefore, my time is full and the crisis is merely more time to enjoy beings gear head. BTW, my radio is turned to an local country AM station. Great time and good tunes. Be safe everyone. MTG

Sniff sniff... That's probably the nicest thing anyone has said to me on here.

You almost have to do it online.... I usually buy from:
Diamond Gusset jeans
All American clothing Co
Wigwam socks
Bayside T shirts
Red wing boots

If you look hard enough it can be done....

They eat what is available.

Have you seen the videos of their meat markets ? I think bat on a stick is a delicacy over there. There was plenty of other meat to eat, like pork and snake and goat. There's plenty of nasty stuff to eat here but not many folks will eat it.

They eat what is available and mostly what is cheap.
I worked in the PRC for 9 years.

Let push come to shove and you’d eat it too, to get by and to get some protein in you.

Premier Li Peng said that he wanted each Chinese citizen to have one egg per day. Sounded good until someone ran the numbers and found that to do that would require > 6 times the annual grain crop of Australia.

The fuggers eat gross shyt even when they're here. Precisely why I never go to chinese restaurants.

I hear you, Blackheart.

You ought to see them cook turtle soup.

" >6 times the annual grain crop of Australia...."

Let's hope the weather never wipes out the world rice supply...lol

That’s just to feed the chickens to produce the required amount of eggs. Those old hens would be on overtime.

Rice ? Those folks have electric rice cookers the size of a number 3 washtub.

Your right. It was Clinton. It was some other fire arms importation stuff where Bush screwed us.

Norinko SKS...$64.00 or $69.00 with oiler and bayonet.

What is and isn't good to eat is very egocentric to individual cultures and has little to do with how "nasty" we (USA) think it is. People is USA refrain from eating horse but in other parts of the world it is a standard if not a preferred protein source, same thing for dog. Nothing wrong with horse or dog as a nutritional protein source, but here (USA) is is culturally unacceptable.

America can not live without international trade



The last three 2 term presidents were responsible for allowing the flight business to China . I refer to them as the 3 stooges. They were stooges for the globalists and their push for world power. None of the three knew a thing about how business works, One was a womanizer, the 2nd was a privileged moron with no business acumen, the third was a socialist who reigned it in during his 8 years . Had Trump not won there TPP would have been ratified and signed by the US and all our Industry would be in the hands of our greatest enemy. Does anyone remember how America was supposed to be a service economy? How well did that work out?

As to what is or is not edible. Read some of the early exploration/shipwreck books. Starving folks went to the dump, retrieved their garbage, and cooked it up. Ate shoes, clothes, and even a little cannibalism now and then. If one gets seriously hungry, he will make do with whatever.

I know that. Fuggin chinks are unacceptable to me in many ways just like muzzies. Like it or not IDGAF.

I've been seriously fuggin hungry before and never even considered eating a bat. Like I said before, the chinese eat some damn nasty stuff even when they're here and Mickey D's is open.

It wasn't force to us by the retailers, The Government also helped them. If all foreign product get higher tax then people won't go to China, Every Chinese industry is made from American Dollars.

I got screwed on an ad for special forces pants on pinterest that ended up being plastic two dollar discards that would cost 25 to send back to china. Thankfully paypal reimbursed the shipping and i wont buy anything advertized on pinterest or facebook ever again. You can buy amazon as they will reimbursd chinese fraud. Websites like wish are all chinese [bleep] that will fail shortly after the warranty or cost 25 and 6 weeks to return.

The funny word we live in, Knock-offs from China are now the thing,

Dude, you must have been a hit on Craigslist.

I have been an anti China guy since before it took over...I have not set foot in a Walmart since the late 90 s..as I will agree there are some things you just can't get made in USA ...but work boots head over to scapoose and see the folks at Wesco...
I have found several companies making work cloths in USA...Bailee's sells wild ass brand you just have to look a little harder you won't find USA made anything in your adverage retail store...

Your not looking..

Other nations do considerable amounts of business there too.

This^^
Lets start with the IMPORTANT schitt first and go from there.

Yessir.

Something along the lines of a Strategic Drugs Reserve to begin with then relocating the production back to here.

Always do my best to not buy from China. It isn't easy sometimes though and sometimes it comes from China or not at all.

Clothing especially. 25-30 years ago I would buy a shirt and coats in China that I thought was the only thing I could afford. Turns out those items didn't last long so I had to buy again after a year or two. Sometimes less. Then I started buying quality American shirts and outerwear. Still have all of it after 25 years and much of it still looks new even though they gets worn pretty regular. The only item I have that doesn't is a Schaefer coat that gets worn for chores and a Filson feather weight shirt that is showing wear at the shoulder after more than 20 years of solid service. Unfortunately Filson makes most of its stuff in China now.

I do want to make a comment about that Schaefer coat. It is one of their insulated canvas jackets. I was fixing fence shortly after getting it when the barbwire snapped back and raked across my arm. I expected the coat to be torn and I was a little worried about my arm when it did it, but there wasn't a mark on the coat and my arm was ok obviously. Tough coat.

World trade is as old as Marco Polo. Trade just needs to fair trade.

Well said, Wabi.

The problem now, of course, is where our critical goods and needs are produced.

Bringing manufacturing back into this country requires a workforce that is willing and able to work in manufacturing. For several generations now manufacturing jobs have been considered only for those not smart enough for college, beneath the dignity of a large sector to "get their hands dirty". Henry Ford once said that the average working man "had no more intelligence than an ox", that more than likely had something to do with the move away from manufacturing employment. Most high schools haven't had vocational education for the last several decades, opportunities for training in this country are sorely lacking save for the community college system. Even a two year associate degree is considered inferior to a bachelor degree. Society's thinking needs a paradigm change in the worst way in order to make this happen.

Shipping an entire industrial base with few exceptions to a country that hates us is not fair trade.




Elitists look down on people with that sort of education. They are truly deplorable. I have a friend like that whose Wife thinks everyone should have a Masters at the minimum to ease thru the world. She must have really been irked since my friend was a Blue Collar Tool and Die Maker who supported the entire family while his wife sought worthless degrees . After years of menial jobs she finally came to her senses and got an RN.

People are going to buy Chinese stuff for decades. It's just way cheaper, and people ain't gonna drop $75 for an American toaster when they can get a Chink one for $7 at Walmart.

Fact.

I admit that a few years ago I bought a number of PRC machine tool accessories and cutting tools ( Taiwan though, makes some decent tools). A lesson hard learned, now, I buy used American tools that I will be able to pass on to another generation, sometimes they need a little tlc, but it is money well spent. Same goes for work clothing. I had a Filson wool cruiser coat that is now going to the third generation. If the PRC military uses the same junk they sell to the US, I can't see where they can keep their army and navy and air force going more than a couple months in combat.

I'm remembering the old Greeks. During one of the wars they brought all the people in from the country where it was easier to defend them in the cities. That meant they had to import wheat for food. With the ships bringing in the wheat came rats. With rats came fleas, and the plague. .

Since those days wise politicians have kept the food source at home.

You are assuming that China is the cheapest place to build a 7 Dollar toaster.

I think there is going to be a vast awakening in the next few months and people will see how we sold down the river for pennies one the dollar. That is for anyone that has a brain will see this.

Enlighten me, are you thinking Nigeria or some such?

On virtually every episode of Shark Tank, every Shark wants to reduce costs by moving production overseas.

Whenever someone came on & wanted to open a business with product built in the US, they were all but booed off the stage.

Before China it was Taiwan, before that, Japan. I threw a Japanese adjustable 12" wrench over the machine shed once.
I wondered at the time how the Japanese could have fought WW2 with junk like that.

It's the fast buck US importers to blame.

Vietnam for starters

At one point in the 90s, the
japs were making very good Fender guitars.

Mexico makes them now, at a cost about half of an American made Fender.

I have a few camera bags made in Vietnam. They have held up.

Next up will be India.

Happening as we speak.

We are going to run out of cheap places soon. What will the Globalists then do?

What's the difference? Is Vietnam Nam or India somehow superior to China?

Right now China makes stuff that people buy, why would the Vietnam Cong be preferable?

I'm just trying to learn.

Ghost, we have a long history of rebuilding and trading with those who wanted to kill and destroy us and us, them.

They don't have a bomb yet and really don't get along with the Chinese for starters. They are cheaper and probably not requiring access to intellectual property like the Chinese are.

India is untapped. They used to make basic crude brass ornaments and housewares and now make Mahindra Tractors, Fighter Jets and automobiles.

Both are not threatening to drown us in a "sea of coronavirus"

Hopefully this Co virus won’t disable our military.

+1 on not disabling our military and the wining puzzies here are crying about a turkey hunt on a military base being canceled.

Yeah, that was somehow overlooked(electronic devices, circuit boards) by our defense department. Unbelievable

THIS.... is what i hope will happen, this will be the war the current generation will hopefully get and become their history... it is time to quarantine the aggressor... the US has made a horrible mistake to support a communist country... it is wrong and should go against the grain and fiber of every US citizen. They do not have their citizens best in mind, regardless of what they eat or have to eat. The Chinese people are not the enemy...
Its their communist government, they have fugged with and tainted the honey they export, when caught they exported thru Vietnam, they brought the US honey producers to their knees in this country. They make our pharmaceuticals...... ! How crazy is that?
It has to stop..and the Chinese government is terrified about what is going to happen to their economy, why do you think they have quit reporting? Not just underreporting.. they did that from the beginning... no they just quit ...
Every chinaman has a cell phone, as of the last 3 months there are 21 million fewer cell phone accounts in China, when it typically grows every year..not saying there are 21 mil dead, but there are a whole lot more than what we are being told.
QUARANTINE THE AGGRESSOR, maybe the silver lining is for the younger generations to get their own history lesson to believe in.

Spot on, johnn.

Eastern Europe was making a lot of our pharma needs not that long ago. That's a viable source for now if they still have capacity.

The global money manipulators will still source from wherever is cheapest; they have no conscience. They traditionally had no singular nationality, and they don't hold allegiance to any nation, save maybe one created after WWII. Profit is the King.

That said, I see things moving to India, and China's big engine sputtering. India has nearly the same workforce and good higher education for the qualified. They also speak English...evidence all the robo calls offering credit card rates and computer support...

India has few regulatory roadblocks to get things up and rolling.

Introducing and effecting capitalism into the core being of China hasn’t all together been a bad thing. At this point they cannot go back to the old days, ala, Russia.

When China first turned towards capitalism the ranking party members balked big time and there came a near coup, it was nasty and it was violent.

But as the premier said “ black cat, white cat, what does it matter if it catches the mouse “ ?

Very pragmatic people who recognized that capitalism would be the quickest path to rebuilding their military.

Buy a pair of White's boots; they will outlive just about all of us. I am still using White's that I bought in 1966, with one factory resole.

Exactly!

Shop class doesn't exist in most high schools and middle schools/Jr High as we called them. It was probably too male direction sexist.

Seems this Coronavirus has lasted longer than most anything else China produces

I guess it depends on where one is at. My cousins boy won the state highschool welding championship, or whatever it is called in that competition, his senior year. We live in an agricultural rural area. He went to school for one year to be a lineman and is now going to school for one year for more welding. In some areas good welders make 6 digit incomes. Much better than many hgher ed jobs with just 2 years of vocational training. He may not do that well here, but who knows.

Do you really, really think that they are capitalists or have a capitalistic economy??? Really ? Really?

Sure they sell into capitalistic countries & take advantage of being a low cost producer, but their country & it's internal economy is not at all capitalistic.

Go there & start a plan.............the Chinese gov is your 50% partner. Capitalism my azz.

MM

Whether you realize it or not you just described exactly what capitalism is.

After working 9 years in the PRC I can tell you that they are ruthless capitalist and capable, diligent negotiators to the Nth degree.

You mentioned partnerships? I’ve yet to see any third world country allow industry to come into their country and just take what they wanted like some had forced on them by our cousins, the British .

The world has changed whereas many Americans haven’t and have a pitifully small view of the whole.

But,,,that’s jmho.

So to answer your multiple questions with just a single word:
Really.

I would...

Yea, but the Sharks are kgunts.

Buy American, or from her allies!

Wabi.. You nailed it. The Chinese will build you a Rolex watch better than the original if you set the standard. They only send over here what the importer or business owner accepts. Poor standards, poor products.

Osky

Maybe. Mostly, bullshit.

We buy singles. We don't care about 3 or 5% price differences if
It reflects American or better quality.

Big companies? Their accountants see units. Well, unit price.

Where we see $2 difference in a t-shirt, they see
$2/unit x 1,000,000 units= $2,000,000 profit by getting it made by
Aisian kids.

Come on, think back to the last Olympics.
The Calvin Klein swimsuits were made offshore.
Do you really think the people buying Calvin Klein are going to
quibble over couple percent price difference in their underwear?

No.

Place of manufacture and quality is somewhat driven by shoppers,
It's also driving by enhancing profit by cutting cost.

Much truth here BUT you better ride herd over quality control constantly and not just trust it to be put in place and then happen.

Ask Zen RAY how good Chinese quality is ? I believe the original CEO was worn out riding herd on QC.

And there’s other examples, too.

GM’s Buick for one.

Whites Boots is now owned by Lacrosse which is in turn own by ABC-Mart an Asian company.

AFAIK, WESCO Boots in are still American owned, they make good boots.

Yeah, well consumers are to blame. The US consumer is very spoiled, demanding Rolls Royce quality at Hyundai prices. It's never worked that way and never will.

I have read, back in the 30's, the Japanese, and the Russians would buy a Caterpillar tractor, and copy it right down to the smallest screw.

Yes Toot we test every shipment. It is a stainless steel product so we have our test points and they are well aware of them. People can criticize China, but were it not for politicians and attorneys we would not be having as much made in China as we are. It has nothing to do with cheaper labor as is so often the excuse.

Osky

Doesn't the EPA stand for "employ people in Asia?"

Y'all might find the book "Poorly Made in China" , by Paul Midler, to be interesting.

What’s it say?

Poor quality. Obfuscation. Subterfuge. Culture clash. And, with humor. By a guy who was an insider and dealt with hundreds of Chinese suppliers/manufacturers in various industries.

It's from 2011, is out of print, and I had to find it from the used book market.

Look on Amazon, read the reviews. Most interesting.

I will add this.
People do not enlist product production from China for,limited quantities. This generally means the same mass production machinery is used there versus anywhere else. Labor difference per piece is miniscule.
Most people cannot fathom the layers of taxes on for instance a product made of metal in the US.
Most people don't understand all the regulation/cost they are paying for the above product.
Most people would not believe the legal costs associated in all phases of above product manufacture in the US.
There is more to this as well.
I didn't realize these things until I lamented to my accountant that we could not bring my product to market here at an affordable price as hard as I tried. He gave me a much more in depth lesson than the abbreviated one I post here.
Government and the legal system ( tort reform please ) have been far and away the primary reasons China is as deep in our lives as they are.

Osky

Pard,,,,,,,you nailed it to the wall.

I've posted this before, but it's worth posting again:

I will never patronize Walmart or Sams. I hold them primarily responsible for the rise of Chiner as a world threat and for America's reliance on and addiction to cheap crap.

I hope and pray that this is a wake up call for America to rebuild and repatriate our world-leading manufacturing capabilities and companies, respectively. Perhaps Trump will be instrumental in accomplishing this goal, but I'm doubtful it will ever happen.

***

Now for my rant regarding Chinese crap, which, I penned about a year and a half ago. I've posted this before on the 'fire:

I won’t discuss my personal experiences and examples here, but every single time I have purchased a Chinese-manufactured product, I have been disappointed. The fact is that Chinese made products are built to a price-point, which often results in major quality issues. Companies choose to manufacture their goods in China for one reason and one reason only – to increase their profit margins. While there are certainly some Chinese-made products and parts that are built to a relatively high standard, i.e. Bosch, the great majority of these products are much lower quality and use inferior materials and labor than their American, German or Japanese counterparts. Even the highly-specified products Bosh has manufactured in China do not match the quality of those they once produced in Germany.

Personally, I am not interested in supporting or enriching China by purchasing their products. China is not our friend and they have all but declared economic war on America. From their currency manipulation to their push to undermine the U.S. dollar as the world’s preeminent reserve currency, China is giving their companies an unfair advantage in the world market and they are doing so at America’s expense.

Too many companies and people in America do not understand the true cost of buying products made in China. Failure to consider all costs is a problem we face as Americans when we choose a product based upon price alone, a price that is invariably cheaper for Chinese-made products.

Take, as an example, the Verrazano-Narrows Bridge, which connects Brooklyn and Staten Island. $35m in steel production was outsourced to China, never mind that Chinese steel is inferior to steel produced in America and never mind that six bridges in China collapsed since July of 2011 (as of this initial writing(6/18)) due to inferior Chinese steel. Even the official Chinese news agency acknowledged shoddy construction and inferior building materials as contributing factors to these failures. If this isn’t enough, consider that California purchased Chinese steel to renovate and expand the Francisco-Oakland Bay Bridge. Numerous problems with faulty Chinese welds and inferior steel led to huge delays and massive cost-overruns, which far outweighed the cost savings CA was expecting by purchasing Chinese crap. Not to mention the fact the Chinese steel production is heavily subsidized (subsidies which are illegal under international trade agreements) by the Chinese government. As more and more cheap Chinese steel is dumped onto the American market, more and more American jobs are lost as Chinese jobs increase. EDIT: Trump’s tariffs have done much to rectify this situation, but there’s much more to accomplish in this arena.

All this doesn’t even take into account the vast increase in pollution Chinese steel mills produce compared to their American counterparts, pollution that is crossing the Pacific on the jet stream, which ends up in America. Chinese industry does not have to meet onerous EPA regulations either. Nor does this take into account the fact that purchasing Chinese-made products supports an authoritarian/Communist regime (albeit one with a Capitalistic storefront).

Obviously, this is not limited to the steel industry, but the steel industry is one which is easily explained.

Regarding contracts American companies have with Chinese companies, contracts are viewed very differently in China than they are in the United States. Regardless of the contract, Chinese companies start cutting corners as soon as production begins. While American companies demand low prices and expect a certain level of quality, the Chinese manufacturer simply does what they want, without regard to the agreed upon contract. What many don’t understand is that any company doing business with China largely does so on a cost basis. Choosing a Chinese manufacturing company based upon the lowest-bid will invariably result in tainted, inferior and sometimes dangerous products.

The Chinese handle business a great deal differently than Americans. They are unconcerned with contract law, copyright law, patent law, safety issues and environmental issues. Redress with Chinese companies producing inferior products is often an exercise in futility regardless of contract as most are not written to the standard required for iron-clad guarantees and even if they were, good luck prevailing in a Chinese court. They simply do not believe in a level playing field, regardless of what they might say in negotiations.

Although I am not wealthy, I would rather spend a more on a known, quality product that does not support Communists and does not encourage economic hardship for America. I'd rather know that the odds were in my favor that I'll be happy with the quality, performance and warranty, which I expect from a quality manufacturer. And it goes without saying, but I’d rather support American companies.

Obviously, people are free to make their own choices. I would only, respectfully recommend that Americans consider the true cost of that Chinese-made crap-product that saved them a few bucks.

Komatsu comes to mind with the Japanese.

Russians have never built anything worth a scchitt except for the AK which was cloned from the Germans and made cheaper. One could argue that the Russian T-100 tank was robust and effectively efficient..
Other than that, well, some beautiful women. No small thing.

They've built some pretty advanced ice-breakers - an order of magnitude better than our ageing fleet..

Good point. They do.

Anything else come to mind ?

You don’t see too many free world businesses and manufacturers running to Russia for their needs.

Off the top of my head:

Bonded industrial diamonds - some of the best diamond sharpening stones I've ever used.

Aerospace & ballistic missiles. Not quite up to the level of ours, but impressive, nonetheless. They can rain down death just as effectively as we can.

I think you hit the proverbial Nail on the head ,when Government controls that much of your business who can say it is not socialized.

EPA LMAO does anyone remember the bulldozer that accidentally dumped tons of poison into an otherwise pristine Colorado river? Under the Obongo administration that was cleaned up in 1 month. Communists cured China of Covid faster then we did.



GMAFB.

Thank you William Jefferson and Loral.

Thats because we don't want to invest or have lagged behind in developing them. I doubt they would out technology us on a reinforced steel hull.

Certainly true, but the fact remains that they've done it and we haven't.

Our ice-breaking "fleet" is a joke.

Animas River that flows right through Durango on down through Aztec, N.M.

As long as we have lawyers and politicians American made will never be as cheap as it should be.

That settles that.

Yep, case closed.... wish more would see it

They have a greater a much greater need for an icebreaking fleet then we do. That said we have a 1/2 dozen scheduled sometime this decade.

Would you trust a Nuclear Russian design whether an Icebreaker, Sub or a power station in the middle of nowhere:?

Not if we want to protect our interests in the Arctic and not cede them to Russia and Chiner. The Russians are way ahead of us there. & yeah, I've been hearing about America's plan to build more ice-breakers for years and years, but I've yet to see them begin construction - I'll believe it when I see it.


I'd sure as Hell trust a Russian nuke sub/ice-breaker over a Chinese one. But America clearly has the upper hand in nuke sub technology and reliability. I'd also take a nuculear Russian Ice-Breaker over a US one any day - America's newest ice breaker is over 40 years old and it's literally falling apart. The Ruskies have been building them for a long time now. They have 41 operational & more under construction. We have 2 and have yet to begin construction on another.

Here is a link looks like a contract to me. Do you really think the Russians would try to take Alaska ? That's pretty funny if you think that.


link

I said the Arctic, not Alaska. & all of that 3/4 B $ was diverted to the Southern Border wall.

Tell me again how many Fortune 500 companies are headed to Russia to use them as their manufacturing base of cheap, quality labor and infrastructure?

That’s a loaded question, High Noon.
No offense meant by it.

We use the Chinese to launch our satellites.

Still a contract for 6 Icebreakers which you said were not going to be built.

Oldelkhunter & Old_Toot: Read my previous posts again. I never said new US Icebreakers were not going to be built. I said they’ve been talking about building new ones for years and years (in fact, decades) and I’ve yet to see any built. I said that I would believe it when I see it.

Granted, Trump has placed a priority on building new Icebreakers, but the funds allotted by Congress for this endeavor have been diverted to the Southern Border Wall and the Icebreaker project, once again, stagnates. Whether or not Trump is able to restart and fund this program remains to be seen. I certainly hope he is successful.

Look Fellers, I'm not defending Russia. I never said these Icebreakers were not going to be built. I said the US has been talking about building new ice breaker(s) for years and years, but we've yet to begin construction. There's a big difference in those two statements.

You made a statement that “the Russians have never built anything worth a schitt.” I was simply pointing out that this statement is incorrect as the Ruskies have indeed built an enviable fleet of ice-breakers and that they have certain other technological capabilities, especially in the aerospace industry. This conversation is not about Fortune 500 companies flocking to Russia to conduct business – I certainly never said or implied that – I’m not sure where that contention came from. But if you look at it closely, there's many Russian Oligarchs in a variety of industries in Russia - but that's a different discussion. I also never stated or implied that the Russians would try to take Alaska – rather I said clearly that the ARCTIC (Antarctica) was at stake.

And Helicopters?

The only Russian chopper that I’ve ever flown in was in interior China to remote locations. It was owned by China Southern Air.

I’ve flown in many all over this world and many times. That’s the only Russian bird I’ve ever been in.

I’m sure other governments have purchased Russian choppers for their various needs because they are cheap to buy, comparatively.

If you know of more that are used in commercial fleets, list them.

I don't, hence the question mark. Just always thought they looked cool in the movies, Like Rambo 2.

That’s the type I flew in doing site evaluations in interior China. Looked the same.

If I understood the Chinese pilot correctly, I think that he was trying to explain the controls functions were pretty much opposite from, say, a Sikorsky or Aero Postele (sp).

Cool that you flew in one.

Thing hauls azz.

I’d bet Digital Dan knows a bit about these birds. Quite a bit.

In reading the previous comments about lawyers, regulation and US manufacturing, consider the following anecdote from my recent past. My wife bought a kitchen step stool for the new place a couple weeks ago. It was painted bright orange and fit neatly in a little cubby where she wanted to store it. Upon its arrival, she was quite proud that her measuring worked out. My wife pulled the step stool out and handed it to me. I opened it. It felt sturdy, but was of course made in China. I stepped on the first step and its steel frame started to close under the pressure. With minimal inspection, I identified the stool had a glaring design flaw resulting from the orientation of the stool’s two steps to one another and their hinge points. The stool proved to be inherently dangerous by design. Yet, someone went through the process of manufacturing, packaging, shipping, marketing and delivering it to the final user. I was flabbergasted. It was sold on Amazon by an outfit called louisladders. Through their communications it appeared they were over seas. Their customer service response seemed aimed at wearing me out, before providing a shipping label for the stools return. The stool cost all of $35. I’d have been well ahead to just throw the thing out, but I sincerely didn’t want someone to pull it out of the trash and use it for fear they’d get hurt.

We have a Chinese run economy because "bi partisan coalitions" in congress decided we needed to be a service oriented country not industrial. That's why you can't find anything made in the USA. Dems and Repubs alike gave our factories to China and Pacific Rim countries. That has to change. When the time comes to crank up our economy it'll be time for tariffs and American Made. Making stuff for ourself and export will go a long way toward bringing US back where we outa be. God bless Trump and the 2020 Election.

kingston: Sorry to hear about your craptastic MIC ladder experience. This pretty much mirrors my experience with anything I've purchased that's MIC, with a few very rare exceptions.

Made in USA Ladder Co:

Metallic Ladder

Werner ladders used to me made in USA, but I think they might be made in Mexico now.

Pretty much but companies were and are free to locate where they choose unless an area or country is a forbidden zone, e.g., Iran.

We’ve seen manufacturing shift from Japan to Mexico to Philippines to China to Vietnam, etc, etc.

You could say that Congress allowed it but they didn’t dictate it to be so. These things most often flow relative to the value of the USD$ versus “their “ currency. But not always.

Weatherby might be an example of international moving locations.

It's corporate greed vs patriotism.

Greed wins almost every time.

Thanks for the link. Unfortunately, they don’t make a kitchen step stool. It looks like they make lots of other really nice ladders though.

Is it greed or is it capitalism at work for the stockholders?

I guess one could argue it either way. Take Fruit of the Loom, for example, that brought their manufacturing back to the USA,,,,for a while.

Did you see this one? I think this would work very well for a kitchen:

Step Stool - Metallic Ladder

Greed, but that isn’t strictly bad.

The bad part is that the greed is focused exclusively on getting a dollar today, with no regard for tomorrow or anything other than the dollar really.

With any luck some of the people who made that trade and sent their technology to China will contract COVID and die due to a lack of domestic drug manufacturing capability, so there will be fewer of them to deal with in the future.

It's unquestionably greed with a lot of underlying factors I will not get into that brought us to this point .

I find it interesting how our Pharma mfg went there. Hint.. it was not about our Pharma going over there at least not on a large scale.

I’m not following....our pharma went over there but it didn’t go over there?

I don’t know the backstory so I am probably missing something.

Chinese Pharmaceutical Mfr's created a Cartel. The Cartel was selling pharmaceuticals for a profit at a price below what the US firms could make it for.

You’re a hard man, Stick.

A hard man.

Sounds like the buyers had the same thinking that led people to import millions of Mexicans so they could get their valve stems replaced for cheap.