Building a new chicken run off the back of my barn, and want to set the corner 4x6 posts in concrete. Dug the holes last night, and this morning there is 6 inches of water in them. Scooped it out, they refill in a couple hours. Thinking there is no way concrete will set up in that?

Concrete will setup/cure under water. It does not 'dry' as most seem to think. You'll be good to go.

How deep? I've set posts in wet holes just putting the quickcrete in dry (unmixed) and tamping it.

Maybe load up a sonotube with the concrete out of the hole. Let it cure, then drop it unto the hole. Basically, a pre-cast pier just like a number of pre-cast pier products in the market. (ETA: Sounds like concrete in the hole as others suggested would be easier!)

Might also want to consider a j-bolt and 4x6 bracket instead if putting the wood in the concrete, if its that wet.

I considered doing just that, but wasn't sure if that was a good idea. Holes are about 3ft deep.

It's not the best situation. But the concrete is heavier than the water and it'll push the water out the top of the hole when you fill it. Make the concrete on the tight side instead of real loose. For a fence post it should be fine.

Standby for Art Peck to give you the full ASTM on building a chicken coop.

Keep the wood above ground level if you want it to last anytime at all. If your going to all of this work do it right and have peace of mind. Pour your footers and use some simpson ties to tie your posts to the footers.

I fugging hate wood posts in concrete.

Hate em.

It doesn't matter if there is water in the hole. Just said the post and dump a couple bags of sacrete in there and add some more water. It doesn't need to be perfectly mixed. It will also absorb water from the surrounding soil and set up with that moisture too. Be sure and use treated lumber.

+1 easy enough to pour your footers and even set the post brackets in the concrete if you choose to. If not a lot of bracket options with a simple concrete bolt/anchor setup also.

Why is that Jim?

Really? You don’t know how siding works or attached and you’re an expert on this? Wow

Alberta ?
What's the frost line there? Here we need to set posts at least 42" to be below ours.

I'd poor the concrete a little higher than grade, embed some kind of anchor to the top of it, and then set the post on top of the footing rather than inside of it. To me, inside is asking for it to hold water and rot in time. on top, it stays dry, but if anything happens you can always replace it without disturbing your footing.

No worries, he missed the corner post part I think....and maybe everything else...

This should be a good thread, the engineering requirements for building a chicken run should be spot on with the aptitude available here....

A chicken house is barely a notch above a dog house when it comes to budget and technicality . Lol

That is what I did for a trellis around my carport. I put threaded rod in the concrete and made anchors out some decently heavy angle iron I had. Eventually its gonna rot and as you say its easier to replace that way.

So you've really never built a fence with wood corner posts it appears...

Where did I say I was an expert? I was simply pointing out that theee pre-cast options (including diy). And while not cheaper, they can be muchfaster. Being used more and more around here in the winter.

And, I'd not stick the wood in wet ground like Jim Conrad suggested.

I wouldn't put a wood post into a perennially wet hole.

Either go galvanized pole or this as suggest above.

Make sure top of concrete is above grade.

Actually I just saw that, and I did. Anyhow, gl with the build.

Fence vs Carport, wonder what the difference could be?

And what might happen when you start stretching wire fencing from that cheeze dick little POS?

Little Tykes chiggun house, lol

Concrete sets from chemical reaction water won't hurt it

Sweet

I wish I could take credit for it, google image hijack.

LOL...

I'm glad some of you are not fence builders for a living...

There's some truly comical responses. Once again, the 'Fire doesn't disappoint!

I missed the post where Jim said that............was it in this thread?

If eggs rolled out those little holes and into a basket it'd be epic...

You can just pour dry Quikrete into the hole and it will set. I have done them that way and it works.
But if you want it to last a long time you don't want that wood underground. Yes, there are guys who have posts that have been underground for 30 years and they are OK.
Thirty years ago they put arsenic in the PT wood. EPA took the arsenic out 15 years ago.

You need to buy a galvanized steel "chair" at Lowes. You buy a 1/2 inch galvanized steel bolt, it has an "L" shape at the bottom and is 8 inches long.
Set that into the wet concrete. Come back 2 days later and bolt the chair onto the bolt.

One little mistake I made here. Make a 2x4 frame 14x14 inches and set it on the hole. Pour the concrete it will then be 3 1/2 inches above the ground. Will keep dirt off of the chair and the post.

Paint the part of the post that's going to be below grade with 3 coats of asphalt barn paint.

Are you using the quick dry stuff? That should work fine. Just skip the water drenching part, since it's already in there. Or at least you won't need as much water.

What kind of wire did you stretch from that post?

Do you think that stretching wire is going to bend a 1/2 inch steel bolt, set 7 inches into concrete?
I don't think so.

4X6 posts????????? How big are these chickens, anyway? Maybe they've got a little gorilla in their DNA somewhere?
Jerry

Happy Birthday !!

Here in NW Ontario, 48" (4 foot) is normal.

We have posts set in concrete on the farm for over seventy years. I'd put concrete above ground level to keep water from the posts.

Free advice is who what you pay. Good luck.

That frost line is insane up in Yankeeland. Down here in Dixie it is just 12 inches.

Yes, in a absolute heart beat...

So, I can assume you didn't stretch any wire from that post then....

Actually built miles of 5 strand barbed wire with bigass hedge posts for corners/braces with 2” pipe and #9 smooth tying them together with every tenth post a 4” hedge line post.

The discrepancy was not following the OPs chicken run as going to be a fence under tension as opposed to just some sort of lean too off his back shed.

The voice of experience says...

You wanna tell um the down side of a concreted in fence post?

So ya figure he just wants sloppy sagging wire then...

BTW, those cheap galvanized Chinese brackets your using will rot away years before that treated post would..

When pouring footings for bridge abutments, the elevation of the top of the footing was usually 2ft. below the elevation of the stream or river. After putting a rough finish on the top of the footings we would turn the dewatering pumps off and flood the entire footing. Best thing for curing concrete. If I was building this chicken run ,I'd did the holes large enough to accept dropping in a 60 lb. bag of premix so it would lay flat in the hole. Drop bag and all into hole . Place your post into the hole plumb it and fill it in with what you dug out. Moisture will get into that bag and do it's thing. 45 years ago I saw a 90ft x 60ft pole barn built this way and it's still standing today.

The old creosote posts, and poles last a lot long than any of the "green" treatments.

Morton Buildings has gone to precast concrete, with the poles attached above grade.

More than one way to do it right.

Small run. Posts braced top and bottom between each other with further board. String whatever wire you want up however tight you need without sagging.

Again, I was thinking more of a building with braces tying ever thing together as opposed to a wire fence.


Feel free to know everything though. Doesn’t hurt anybody.

Poor retention of the treatment used.

If a post get bumped, the post set in concrete might break, in soil, it should just move.

Posts set with rock, tamped hard works well to.

I've found concreted in posts to be a challenge to tamp to re-tighten and ya can't re-drive them, so you just have to do it right the first time..

BIG....especially my COCK. My COCK is simply tremendous, I mean really,really large. Those who have seen it say it may be the biggest ever. Simply an incredible COCK, in all regards. Just fantastic.


Lol ok now that I've channeled my inner 'Flave and got that out of my system, we can carry on.
There is more to this than I initially stated, because I didn't expect that I'd get more than an answer or two stating yes or no. These corner posts really aren't a structural part of the run, although they are contained within it. The run is built on a 4x6 floating base, these posts are at the far corners and one right in the center. The barn itself serves as the back wall to the run. This barn is old, and as is common out here the wind has pushed it slightly to one side. You wouldn't notice except to look at the windows, but its definitely a bit off.

My plan is to set these posts in place and use them as anchors to a trio of brace posts I will put in place. This, I hope, will prevent the barn from leaning any more over time. The braces will go from the top of the barn wall just below the roof line down to the ground, against the posts being discussed here. I'd post some pics if I could but none of the hosting services seem to work for me.

Cedar or Locust

What ya got........

Tamp rocks/gravel & dirt and call er good........

Be there till hell freezes over

sSame old fire, smile,

Pressure treated is the best I can do

I didn't bother reading the entire thread. If no one told you concrete cures better under water than out! Mix as per directions and displace the water with mixed concrete.

for something like that i think i may just pack some gravel around them. kind of doubt you need concrete.

Nah.

If you stretch net wire the way you should, it'd break 'em right off. But it may just bend them... The ground point is where all the stress leverages when you stretch wire.

On a corner, you need a double H brace to stretch most anything.

We’ve had to replace almost all the posts in our backyard cedar fence. They were in concrete and it looks like the original installers left the concrete “dished” around the post. I suspect every time it rains or we water the lawn, the water stands in the top of the concrete and soaks into the wood. The posts have rotted off at the top of the concrete. I hate wood outside.

Then here are steel pipes used as posts, set in the concrete, last longer than we will.

OK, I give. I have built a lot of decks, but I have never stretched any wire. Hard for me to believe it would bend a 1/2 inch steel bolt.
Dammit we need 1 inch steel bolts!

Me too because you know you'll have to dig it all up in the near future.

Excess water will weaken ready mix just a bit. You really don’t need much strength for your application anyway. Pour it and set your posts.

Sounds like a lesson in 'corner fence buildin', is needed, which should include 'H-Frame Braces' for the corner post.

Concrete is wet when it starts right?
Warms up hot enough to burn you while setting right?
Supposed to run water on it periodically to cool it while it cures? Right?

In the wet form it is referred to as ready mix. It isn’t “concrete” until it hydrates/hardens.

The hydration process does certainly create heat. I have never seen it hot enough to burn, though.

Keeping placed concrete cool does help it cure. Particularly in hot weather. A sheet of plastic on top, sprayed occasionally with cool water, is a good trade practice.

Just put a 4 X 4 in for my shed door corner used sauna tube about 30" deep put a 3/4" nipple tape on one end and used a 4 X 4 adjustable bracket in nipple 4 X 4 is above
ground and adjustable. Works well in my area does not move with frost line. Do not like posts set in concrete they tend to rot in my experience.

I will say the foam substitute for concrete sucks ass. I bought a few bags to try on a fence i installed ended up ripping out all of the corner posts and using concrete

Then you do not know much about stretching wire. Hell, I could pull the two foot deep cement base out of the ground stretching a corner with my little "Golden Rod" stretcher. Corner posts on a real fence go in the ground four feet deep, and are at least eight inches in diameter. Three feet deep will suffice if you tie two of them together with diagonals and tensioning strands as in an H-brace.

On the other hand, you do not need piano wire tight to keep a chicken fence upright. Still, I would put some diagonal bracing on the corners.

No, I don't know much about stretching wire. Mea culpa. Mea culpa maxima.

I really have no idea what the tension on a properly tightened barbed wire fence actually is. But I have seen wire consisting of two 12 1/2 ga steel strands pulled in two while tightening. Then consider this tension load is anchored five feet from the ground.

Now, add three or four more tensioned strands pulling in the same direction to complete the fence. If it is a corner, you have another four or five strands pulling at some angle to the first set.

Cement will cure just fine, even under water. I, however, am not a fan of planting wood in concrete. The builder of my home put fence post below grade and did the fill with cement. They're now decomposing. Now I have dig up a big block of cement, as opposed to simply digging a new post hole.

I do have some decking post attached above grade to anchors embedded in cement. They're holding up just fine and will be a snap to replace should the need ever arise.

I never set a wood post in concrete. When the concrete cures it pulls away from the post slightly and moisture gets between the concrete and the wood. The post will rot out in a short period of time. Even creosote treated rail road ties will rot quicker with concrete around them. Wood posts should be set with dirt or gravel tamped down around them. Come up in about 4 to 6 inch lifts and tamp down with a tamping bar.
Pipe can be set in concrete and that works very well. As others have said, the corner posts or stretch posts need additional bracing, either H braces or angle braces.

They sure seem to rot a lot faster.

I see, didn't know they'd rot quicker. Luckily, if my plan works(they rarely do!) I shouldn't need these to last longer than a few years. After that, they'll hopefully have served their purpose and I'll cut them off a little below ground level if they've started to rot.

For a chicken coop me thinks this is being overthought a bit here. Dig holes-place posts- pour dry sackkrete and add a bit more water. Stand back and wait a few hours and try to get that post out of the ground.

+1

I got to thinking maybe an hour is a little fast so I ediited it to a few hours. But still, an hour, two hours, three what the hell! You'll play hell getting that post out of the ground.

Not just better bolts, you need real brackets too.

Those 12ga Home Depot Chinese clips are better left on the shelf, they rust away in record time and can be taken out by a mishap with lawn tractor.

Look for something like these, you'll have to pay for them but they take a lot longer to rust away and there is some strength to them too if structural engineering concerns you.

You'd seldom see these used with fencing due to the expense involved but with the decks you mention it's another thing.

Really great for a POS inbred TN loser to provide such spacious accommodations for free between such low-placed ears. When moving in I did not expect such lavishly appointed digs. I brought all 22 dogs and they each found great places to pee without interfering with siblings. I assume slumdweller found his personal repository... even if he had to dig through a couple generations.

Facts:
Wood does not rot if it is too wet.
Wood does not rot if it is too dry.

Wood posts dropped in concrete are too wet to rot below grade.
Wood posts dropped in concrete are too dry to rot above grade.
Wood posts dropped in concrete rot like crazy if they have a zone between about 20% MC and 40% MC. Different woods and different conditions affect how things work.

Wood kept above grade keeps forever.

Lots more to say and do, but, losers are losers and arguing against Physics is STUPID!

FYI, MC = Moisture Content....

Until the blowing sand abrades the wood.....
Pretty cool to see old posts like that. That is a dry climate tho....


Wilkes,
I had a buddy who had scars all over his legs from a "ready-mix" mishap. I thought he said they were burns, but maybe the aggregate just tore him up some. ..

The worms eat a little more of my brain every year....

UR a crazy fugger............too funny

Talk about bad advice.
I'm just hoping the bracket folks didn't read the OP.

Go ahead with you plan. Make some kind of form, get cement
6" or more above grade. Taped the top so water runs off.
Your post will never rot off from the water.
It will rot in the zone where soil meets air.


Look at an old rotted off post.
The very top, where rain soaks in, is rotted.

A couple inches above garde rot starts, it goes a couple inches into the
soil/cement. The wood below that? Probably still solid.


Being in Alberta, you might want to consider the frost line posts.
If not, liquid water and rot won't have a chance to be a problem!

Is this a high water table or just a lot of rain? A post set in mud, concrete or not, is going to need some cross bracing when the wire is stretched.

boy there is some funny chit in this thread. Tamp crushed rock and call it good. Guess a lot of folks have never built fence

I understude the posts were to support a chicken shelter, not support wire tention?

No way this thread could be let to slip into our archives without some chicken porn being included.

Let’s make a chicken run meet commercial codes!!!!

4x6???
Can’t you get any 2x12’s and laminate them? This thing could snap if you use a measly 4x6.

You're probably spot on the OP did inform us that he has a huge Cock.
A Cock such as his could get outta hand...

Based on the original post and the work that has already been done. "Home Depot" or "Lowe's" and pick up a piece of 4' x 6" Sonotube cut it in half for 2' lengths... place them in heavy duty trash bags inside your holes allowing 4" to 6" above ground level. Soak or brush your post with creosote, place in hole and pour concrete. I'd bury some slab wire mesh reinforcement and put a wire mesh roof on it if Coyotes are a problem. But its a chicken coop not a bridge abutment...



Phil

You could ask this crazy place how to blow your nose , and get a ridiculous number of conflicting replies.

If I'd have known this would get this many responses I'd have been more detailed in my original post. All I really wanted to know was if the concrete would set, probably shouldn't have mentioned the chicken run at all. You are correct in that these posts won't see any wire tension. They are part of a hare-brained idea I have to try to preserve/restore my old barn, and they happen to be inside the chicken run that I am building at the same time. If all goes to plan they only need to last a few years. I do appreciate all the helpful responses.

Actually, all the OP ever asked was if concrete would set in a wet hole.
I think he has the rest his schit together and knows exactly what he is gonna do..

Concrete will set fine. For something like a coop, I’d just use a 5gl bucket in the bottom of the hole.

No wire tension, but if I understand correct, you are going to side
load them to support the barn. Same thing.

Deep, strong, no brackets.