6 months ago my brother visited me from Alaska and brought his 375 down for me to reload with for our upcoming kodiak bear hunt this spring.

The plan was for me to bring it back up on the plane when I flew up. Well..... with covid and everything else our hunt got canceled.

Now I have a rifle here I need to get back to him. Can I just ship it directly, since after all he is the owner? I would hate to tack on a transfer fee and bs fir a rifle he had had for years.

Yes, you can ship an item to yourself from one residence to another. He can be the shipper and receiver.

Send it direct to him, require a signature. He already owns it. It’s not being transferred. It the people at the post office ask what’s in the package, tell them it’s collectible baseball bats. Best way to ship is buy a cheap Plano gun case. It protects the rifle and you have a cardboard box that fits perfectly.

Pretty hard to ship from yourself when you are in another state...

^^^^Good post Sir and exactly what I’ve done many times. I NEVER let some postal dipshit know what I’m shipping, they’re about 12 IQ points below that of a slug and half as fast. 😁

I gotta remember that, cause it’s very true!

No insurance?

If asked by a postal employee if it is a firearm the correct answer is yes. Don't be a dumbass. They are entitled to inspect it to assure it meets the regulations, long gun, unloaded, no ammo.


Can he mail it without being there? I don't know. Interesting question. Pre-labled with his info and you are just dropping it off? I'd do it.

I met more than a few Postal folks that are good, smart, decent and veterans, not dipchits.

Yup.

Advocating to commit a gun crime on the internet is always interesting...

No it isn't. I've done it several times when I need to get stuff from property I own in CO to where I now live in TX. Nobody looks at the names.



Nobody is advocating committing a crime. You can even send a firearm through the mail to get work done on it. No FFL required if it is not changing hands permanently. You can box up a gun, insure it and send it. Nothing illegal about it.

Sorry, but you are incorrect on several points relating to the OP's question.

A person may ship a long gun from himself to himself either going from or returning home, no problem. In this case you are advocating the legality of one person shipping a long gun to another. It is illegal for a nonlicensee to do that. Nothing says anything about changing hands and in point of fact there is a change of hands if one person has something in his hands and sends it to another. Some states are enacting rules to make it illegal to loan a gun to another.

I have said nothing about probability of getting caught as that is an entirely different question. It is illegal.

But but but....

Not correct... they are absolutely NOT allowed to demand to check the firearm or package without PC. Imagine the liability of stating something was okay and finding it was not or vice versa...

They are allowed to ask just the the questions about hazardous, flammable, etc.

What town is he in?

Fairbanks,

Really?

PM sent

Twintip,

I've had people visit for the purpose of hunting and they would send their gun to themselves from their home state.

And send their gun back to themselves from the state they were visiting.

If you are shipping the gun to somebody else and it's outside your state, you are breaking the law. Which I'm fine with, but be advised that it is illegal.

Yes.

Have your brother if he doesn't already have one set up an online account with USPS or UPS, FedEx or whoever. Set up the shipping with his name at both ends, copy shipping label to PDF file, send file to you. You copy shipping label, put on package, and answer door with package when they come to pick it up. Your brother sets up everything in his name to and from him. He sets up insurance, and he sets up pick-up date. Your brother is wholy responsible for it.


Phil

The correct answer is none of your fugging biz.They cannot open to check out what it is.They will ask if it is" liquid,flammable or batteries."Also you do not need to lie about what it is because if it is not one of the things they mentioned,you don`t have to tell them.

This is great in theory, but you're one overzealous ass hole away from spending a schit ton in legal fees to avoid the use of an FFL.

The post office doesn't ask what it is.

The UPS and FEDEX does.

Has nothing to do with an FFL one isn't needed.

Phil

You're a dumb fugk regarding every other subject, I guess this one shouldn't be any different.

This is for the mental Midget to read and digest.
May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U.S. Postal Service?

A nonlicensee may not transfer a firearm to a non-licensed resident of another state. A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of their own state or to a licensee in any state.

The U.S. Postal Service recommends that long guns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms.

Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun.

Are you sure about that?

Link

Phil

If you create the label on the USPS web site, you must check the certification checkbox that states that your shipment is in compliance with pertinent postal regs. Therefore, when you hand the package to the USPS clerk “for acceptance”, you need not discuss what’s in the package. If, on the other hand, you just tape an address label on the box and tell the clerk you want to purchase and ship Priority Mail, the clerk must ask you a series of questions to arrive at the same certification that YOU CAN DO WITH A STINKIN’ CHECKBOX ONLINE! So print label online, hand the box to the clerk, and say, “Just dropping off today, Could I have an acceptance receipt Please?”


Every Priority Mail shipment must have a “valid return address.” Personally, I’d use the Web site and fill in the brother’s address for both destination and return address, then select “shipping from a different zip code,” and enter the zip code of the sending post office. That may or may not work, but it’s worth a try.

An FFL holder may ship handguns via USPS.

As for the USPS not asking about whether a firearm is being shipped, they generally don't. But ...

Publication 52 - Hazardous, Restricted, and Perishable Mail



I've never had a USPS employee ask specifically what is in my package or if it was a firearm. Only the typical, is it hazardous yadi yadi spiel. If they asked what is in it, I like an answer someone once posted here on the subject: machined parts. And hope they wouldn't press further. Since I package rifles with a lot of care, I'd be more likely to walk out and find another PO to ship from than open the package for inspection, because getting it out and back in would be quite the hassle.

Another USPS link with more info:

DMM Revision: Mailing Firearms — Clarification

I biught a rifle on gunbroker and the seller put it in a soft case so it was obvious what it was, put on stamps and sent it to my ffl. Big difference is a .375s value vs. a handi

This is not exactly pertinent except for trying to disguise ( not call attention)a long gun. Colorado allows transfer within family,

Can you mail a longgun to yourself so you do not have to carry it through canada in a car? I would.

I’d think these rules would hinge on a legal definition of shipper.

Is the shipper the person or entity who arranges for the shipment, or he who pays for shipping or he who is listed as the shipper on shipping documents?

Is the shipper simply the owner ?

Under the UCC the “shipper” is a person that enters into a contract of transportation with a carrier..

In the case of shipping a firearm without an FFL must the consignor also be the consignee, must the consignee also be the shipper, must the consignor be the consignee and the shipper?

According to the USPS is the mailer equivalent to shipper?





USPS:


https://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c4_009.htm


ATF:
May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U.S. Postal Service?

A nonlicensee may not transfer a firearm to a non-licensed resident of another state. A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of their own state or to a licensee in any state.

The U.S. Postal Service recommends that long guns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms.

Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun.

[18 U.S.C. 1715, 922(a)(5) and 922 (a)(2)(A); 27 CFR 478.31]

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/may-nonlicensee-ship-firearm-through-us-postal-service

FALSE



https://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c4_009.htm

432.3 Rifles and Shotguns

Except under 431.2, unloaded rifles and shotguns are mailable. Mailers must comply with the rules and regulations under 27 CFR, Part 478, as well as state and local laws. The mailer may be required by the USPS to establish, by opening the parcel or by written certification, that the rifle or shotgun is unloaded and not ineligible for mailing. The following conditions also apply:

True on all accounts.

Just discussing here...
..

Where dipass huntz is incorrect is declaring that the USPS can not ask or inspect. He is not correct. That is actually a job function that they are tasked with, prohibiting unmailable items. They can inspect and they can determine if it's collectable baseball bat vs a firearm.

A firearm is restricted (or is the term regulated) , it is not classified as HAZARDOUS mail. Is it potentially hazardous? Phucqking yes, if it is loaded. There's nothing hard about compliance, it's easy and lawful. No reason to be a damned idiot about stuff.

In the OP's case, put the brother's info to and from, prelabled done deal. But, I wonder about, because he is no mailing it.


Any heartache will have to be addressed later. Cheers.

Anyone who thinks that the USPS or a private carrier is not entitled to know what they are putting on their airplanes and trucks is a damned fool. Thank you.


Added, there's a whole bunch of other parts of the regulatory realm that deals with proper shipping, freight inspections, documentation etc... Your firearm is covered by all that chit too, not excluded.

Since he sent it to himself, and not you...it should be still packaged as he sent it. So wouldn’t a return to sender suffice and be legal?

They certainly can ask what it is and can certainly have you open it to determine whether it meets the legal requirements for acceptance. As has been pointed out, you may declare it does in writing if they allow you the option. . Don't for a moment think postal inspectors cannot open anything. Gezus you are not well informed about this stuff.

Yah, tell them it's none of their phucqking business. LOL It is exactly their business. Chongo lay's it out plainly.


It's not an issue at our post office because they are well enough informed....

USPS 432.3 Rifles and Shotguns
* * * * *
[Revise items a. through g. to read as follows:]
a. Subject to state, territory, or district regulations, rifles and shotguns may be mailed without restriction when intended for delivery within the same state of mailing. These items must:
1. Bear a “Return Service Requested” endorsement.
2. Be sent by Priority Mail Express (with “signature required”) or Registered Mail.
3. Include Signature Confirmation service or insured mail service (for more than $500) requiring a signature at delivery.
b. A rifle or shotgun owned by a non-FFL may be mailed outside the owner\u0027s state of residence by the owner to himself or herself, in care of another person in the other state where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. These mail pieces must:
1. Be addressed to the owner.
2. Include the “in the care of” endorsement immediately preceding the name of the applicable temporary custodian.
3. Be opened by the rifle or shotgun owner only.
4. Be mailed using services described in 432.3a.
c. Mailing of rifles and shotguns between licensed FFL dealers, manufacturers, or importers are not restricted. These items must be mailed using those services described in 432.3a.
d. Rifles and shotguns may be mailed by a non-FFL owner domestically to a FFL dealer, manufacturer, or importer in any state. These items must be mailed using those services described in 432.3a.
e. Except as described in 432.2a, licensed curio and relic collectors may mail firearms meeting the definition of curios or relics under 27 CFR 478.11 domestically to licensed FFL curio and relic collectors in any state. These items must be mailed using those services described in 432.3a.
f. Firearms meeting the definition of a rifle or shotgun under 431.4 which are certified by the curator of a municipal, state, or federal museum, which exhibits firearms to be curios or relics of museum interest, may be accepted for mailing without restriction when mailed between governmental museums.
g. Air guns (see 431.6) that do not fall within the definition of firearms under 431.1a are mailable. A shipment containing an air gun with a muzzle velocity of 400 or more feet per second (fps) must include an adult signature service under DMM 503.8. Mailers must additionally comply with all applicable state and local regulations.
[Add new 432.4 to read as follows:]

I have never been asked by the USPS what I was shipping.

I have been asked by UPS and FEDEX.

You can google-fu all you want.

I'm just trying to help the OP with his question.

Clearly.

In Portlandopolis it was common to be asked, based upon box shape and destination address, if the parcel was a firearm at the USPS. "Yes, an unloaded long-gun in full compliance with the mailing rules and regulations, " turned out to be the best answer for all involved. Saying GFY was not helpful. One regular teller, a veteran, demanded I answer yes, potentially hazardous but not in it's current unloaded state, it is an unloaded long-gun .in compliance etc....... This was right after a high profile mass shooting and it wasn't in anyone's best interest to argue really.

How often is someone prosecuted for slight errors? Can you sometimes do it without signature service? Is it OK to lie like a common criminal? We all make our choices. Doing my best to be in compliance is a choice and fairly easy to do. I don't want to be the guy making a fuss with a firearm in a post office. Getting old I guess.

Clearly in care of someone else is OK. Ship it!

Lots of bad advice here. Yes you can ship it. No you can't ship to your brother legally.

The ship to yourself rule allows you to ship your firearm to yourself for your own use, the firearm not being transferred into the possession of another. Say I'm planning a SD pheasant hunt. I can lawfully ship my shotgun to myself in care of the outfit I booked with. Typically the package is held for you unopened so a "transfer" cannot be claimed.

The prohibition is the transfer of a firearm crossing state lines to a non-licensee, transfer being physical possession So technically leaving the firearm with you constituted an illegal transfer. Not that any agent in his right mind would waste his time with such a trivial and innocent matter. But don't compound the matter bu using a subterfuge to effect a transfer back to him.

Per firearms law anybody can ship to a license holder. Easiest thing is to have your FFL ship to his FFL and for a few bucks extra not have to worry about it.

This will all be somewhere on the ATF site. Probably you can suss it out from the Q&A page. Good luck with the Post Office or common carrier's site. Last time the postmaster said no, I handed her their own regulations, she called somewhere and eventually said yes. Much easier to use your FFL who has already been through all that.

Neither MT nor AK has a problem with transfers sans paperwork. Suggesting there is anything wrong there is ridiculous. Adding the family element crosses a whole new level...

Be gentle with night bird, he's had a ruff weekend.

2. May I lawfully transfer a firearm to a friend who resides in a different State? Under Federal law, an unlicensed individual is prohibited from transferring a firearm to an individual who does not reside in the State where the transferee resides...
ATF - Top 10 Frequently Asked Firearms Questionsand Answers

I believe the issue of what constitutes a transfer came up most recently regarding loaning guns. I beleive there is an ATF ruling published but that was some time ago. It has become irrelevant to me and ran out my ears to make room for more trivia. Went something like OK to lend at a trap range because the owner has control over the firearm. Compare loaning a firearm to a guy who goes to hunt somewhere away from you.

Disclaimer: I once made a declarative statement. The prof said, "How do you know?" I said, "I remember reading it." He ended the matter when he said, "How do you know you've remember correctly?" So rely at your own risk. Why lawyers do research. write briefs, and charge money.

To the contrary. I am amenable to changing my opinion IF a rational case can be made. On those threads nobody did. I don't care if people call me names. Reverting to ad hominem attack is universally considered a tacit surrender.

It is easier for me to read english if you write english. WHAT ??

This^^^ Why take the chance, pay the transfer fee. ship to a FFL.

From the ATF Q&A Page: I was looking specifically st the Post Office. Fed Ex and UPS seem to have their own rules which are on a fly wheel and it just depends on where that wheel stops or who you ask. They don't know their own policy. Once told me they couldn't ship a scope because it was part of a firearm!!!

May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U.S. Postal Service?
A nonlicensee may not transfer a firearm to a non-licensed resident of another state. A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of their own state or to a licensee in any state.

The U.S. Postal Service recommends that long guns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms.

Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun.

[18 U.S.C. 1715, 922(a)(5) and 922 (a)(2)(A); 27 CFR 478.31]

One could always contact the ATF directly and seek clarification on the matter. You don't have to guess or gamble.