Last 5 years or so there has been an explosion of concealed carry handgun options, many of which include great triggers and sights, expanded magazine capacity, and dead nuts reliability.
For over 4 years I've been primarily carrying the Ruger LC9S. I shoot it well. It conceals easily. But it is an 8 shot pistol, and no holster can protect the pistol from sweat/rust. Mostly the rust/oxidation cleans off easily enough, but still.
I hadn't even taken delivery on my LC9S, when Sig announced the P365. And I wanted one. Still do, sorta But 365/365XL/365X? Which one is the Goldilocks gun?
And other makers fueled the fire. Springfield, Smith, Ruger. I'm sure that every high capacity micro 9 out there has it's adherents.
Is there one micro 9 out there that everyone can point to and call it the "never a wrong choice" option?
Last 5 years or so there has been an explosion of concealed carry handgun options, many of which include great triggers and sights, expanded magazine capacity, and dead nuts reliability.
For over 4 years I've been primarily carrying the Ruger LC9S. I shoot it well. It conceals easily. But it is an 8 shot pistol, and no holster can protect the pistol from sweat/rust. Mostly the rust/oxidation cleans off easily enough, but still.
I hadn't even taken delivery on my LC9S, when Sig announced the P365. And I wanted one. Still do, sorta But 365/365XL/365X? Which one is the Goldilocks gun?
And other makers fueled the fire. Springfield, Smith, Ruger. I'm sure that every high capacity micro 9 out there has it's adherents.
Is there one micro 9 out there that everyone can point to and call it the "never a wrong choice" option?
I think the S&W Shield Plus is the best of the bunch.
Since I read two incidents of a Sig 320 going off in the holster this morning, Sig’s response was if the striker return spring breaks it can happen and an attorney contacted one of the guys and said there’s been 50 cases, I’m out on anything Sig.
Since I read two incidents of a Sig 320 going off in the holster this morning, Sig’s response was if the striker return spring breaks it can happen and an attorney contacted one of the guys and said there’s been 50 cases, I’m out on anything Sig.
Now where’s that popcorn?
Of course there is no indication of this ever happening with the P365s but the hell with rational thought
I spent several years looking for the "perfect carry gun." For a time, I carried a Sig P238, but micro 9's were just starting to become popular, and I decided I want to get away from .380's (the ammo was nearly double that of 9mm, and I wanted the more powerful cartridge). I tried various revolvers and automatics. I tried all 3 sizes of 1911's. I debated the value of increased ammo capacity. I tinkered with various sights. Here are a few guns that I tried:
I don't have all of them in a single picture, because they came and went at different times. In the end, I decided that I wanted the most rounds I could get of 9mm. I finally settled on a G19. I had a few in different colors. I carried one daily, either IWB or OWB, as clothing allowed.
After Sig got the bugs worked out of the P365 I bought one. However, I didn't keep it long, as I decided to get on board the red dot crowd. I had a G19 gen 5 MOS for a time, but the grip of the P365 fit my hand so much better. I replaced my standard P365 with the P365 XL. I am not even a fan of the Sig company, because of how they beta test on consumers, but I can't cuss the P365 XL. It is perfect for my needs.
I still like Glock 19's (and the Glock 45). I plan to get one milled for a red dot soon. But...I still plan to carry the P365 XL whenever I want to carry a smaller gun--which is often.
I've carried a 365 the last few years. Even though the size is small enough to conceal in almost any kind of SC weather, to me, the gun "shoots like a big gun" is the only way I can describe it. Most little pistols, a couple of mags and I've had enough fun for a while. I can shoot up 50 rounds or more with the 365. Also, I can hit with it almost as well as with my full-size pistols; well enough that I have all the confidence in the world in my ability to deploy it effectively in a SD situation. It's about the only pistol I feel I can count on that I can keep concealed and carry comfortably all day.
Two more cents for the Sig P365XL. I have the regular 365 and a 365XL and the slightly larger grip and slide of the XL makes a definite difference in recoil management. I know you can get an extended magazine for the 365 and that does help but the one piece grip and longer slide of the XL is still the winner IMO.
From a post I made in March of 2020 comparing several pistols:
"One subjective impression is recoil. It was 28 deg. this morning with an 8 mph wind and my fingers got a bit cold. The P365 had a 12 round mag in it so I could get my hand fully on the grip but recoil was still snappy. My chilly trigger finger really felt it after the first five rounds.
Going to the 365 XL with a longer and heavier slide showed a noticeable decrease in felt recoil, it was a slower recoil impulse. I've no way to quantify this, it wasn't a huge difference, but it was definitely noticeable. "
I am joining the Sig 365XL camp. I have carried one for several years. The longer sight radius makes it much easier to shoot than the 365. It is small enough to fit in the pockets of cargo shorts and it is extremely accurate. You can't go wrong with the XL.
I like how the G19 can be described as "micro 9" in one conversation and "full size" in another. Not knocking the opinions of those that know way more than me, just humorous. And it shows what a sweet spot Glock hit with the 19 (in case anyone wasn't aware ).
Anyway, I'll throw in my plug for the Hellcat. I got talked into shooting a pistol league this summer, and of course I missed a couple weeks that there was no way to make up. The solution was to re-run beginners league while also doing the "regular" league this fall. So, to make things more fun I have been shooting the hellcat in the beginners league and then I walk over and shoot regular league with my xdm. That is a long intro just to say, shooting the hellcat in competition has been a great learning experience. I think the only failures I've seen were caused by me, but I can't say that I spend a lot of time analyzing that while the timer is running. I liked the sights initially, and after running them for a while, I like them even more. There are certainly more precise sights out there, but for the purpose of this gun, they work great. Very easy to hit with and quick. I try to start with the 11 round mags and then switch to 13's on the first reload as that's how I carry. Still haven't grabbed any 15 rounders, but I need to. I'm not as fast with the hellcat as I am with the xdm, but it is way closer than I would have guessed.
I have handled the 365 and the 365XL, and I get the appeal. I think the trigger is better than the hellcat trigger. That said, I've tried to like a Sig several times in the past, and with a couple of exceptions, it just hasn't worked out.
Also, to the extent that I can, I have attempted to standardize on the "regular use" handgun front. So, for me that meant XDM 9 for the range, xdm 10 for packing in the woods, and the hellcat for concealed carry. My thought is that any time I manage to get for practice/play applies as closely as possible to what you carry. Not that a guy couldn't do the same with any other manufacturer, that's just where I ended up.
With modern manufacturing I think “Best” is a term that needs to be retired. You almost have to go out of your way to end up with a truly bad pistol these days. Don’t worry about what people on the internet think is “best” and just get the gun that fits your hand, will conceal on your body type, and is something you’re willing to take out and shoot on a regular basis. Focus on the software more than the hardware. There’s any number of really great carry guns out there. 365 vs Hellcat vs Shield Plus vs… They’re ALL good, but not all are good FOR YOU. Go put a few in your hand, and if you can shoot them too, well that will tell you way more than anyone here can tell you.
With modern manufacturing I think “Best” is a term that needs to be retired. You almost have to go out of your way to end up with a truly bad pistol these days. Don’t worry about what people on the internet think is “best” and just get the gun that fits your hand, will conceal on your body type, and is something you’re willing to take out and shoot on a regular basis. Focus on the software more than the hardware. There’s any number of really great carry guns out there. 365 vs Hellcat vs Shield Plus vs… They’re ALL good, but not all are good FOR YOU. Go put a few in your hand, and if you can shoot them too, well that will tell you way more than anyone here can tell you.
Another vote for the P365. If buying again I would go with the X or the XL so you have the slide already milled if you decide to add a red dot. I carry the original with an X slide, red dot, and 12 round mag.
I found my preference for carry pistols to be a full sized handle. G17, G45, 1911, and on, and on.
I’ve down sized to one small framed pistol, a Springfield XDs in 45 ACP.
The wife loves her Glock 43x, which isn’t a bad way to fly. If I was going to change out my small frame pistol ~ I’d go with either a G43x or a S&W Shield.
I have a kimber micro took me a bit to get used to it after ton of practice at the range i love it I shoot well good groups etc I just purchased a sig p365 waiting on my permit in the great state i live in but excited to see how it performs im certain it will be a great gun as my other sigs are
Regular P365, the idea is concealment, with a 15 rounder on board with 16 all up and a couple spare 15 rounders in a back pocket, you're GTG, they hit where that front sight is too.
Ask yourself if the gun you are choosing is one that you are willing to get into a standup gunfight with, against one or two attackers, who are armed. Since they (I will use plural verbiage, but it may be a single person) chose to commit heinous acts upon their fellow man, likely planned beforehand and are carrying substantial firepower. Odds are in their favor right from the start, as they intended them to be in their favor. They deliberately planned it this way.
Many tend to choose handguns that are really Talismans. In other words, they are relying on hope as a strategy. They "hope" that if they produce their little 7 shot micro pistol (that is comfortable to carry)and point it in the direction of what scares them it will ward off evil and that will be all it takes. This has never made any sense, as there is an expectation that the bad guys are thinking rationally. The fact is that the very vast majority of people commiting violent crimes/shootings, etc, are either under the influence of narcotics and/or suffering from a mental health issue. They are not rational thinkers, so expecting them to behave rationally is simply not something one should bet their life on.
In talking with a lot of people who carry these tiny pocket guns over the years, and getting into their thought process it is pretty much always the same.
They "hope" they don't have to actually engage in exchanging back and forth fire with an adversary or two.
That is their strategy.
Their tiny gun is really a good luck charm.
The reality is that a person is better off choosing a handgun not based on what feels good in their hand, or what fits in their pocket. They are better off choosing a handgun that they can actually perform well with under stress. Ask yourself "what is the smallest handgun I am willing to get into a gunfight with against 1 or 2 armed men?" That is your answer.
Some guns are great to carry in your pocket and you can shoot them well, standing, shooting slowfire. But when it comes to making fast and accurate hits at any sort of distance, that is where the wheels fall off.
Don't rely on the old nonsense of "average" gunfights being 3.5 rounds at 10 feet nonsense. Most of those statistics are heavily skewed anyways, having such things as dog attacks and various shootings that are not relevant thrown in the mix. Plus, you are "hoping" you are not a statistical outlier.
Choose what you can make fast and accurate hits with. Not a talisman that is comfortable to carry.
You will get the fight you get, not the one you want to get.
The odds will likely already be against you right from the beginning, so choose wisely.
For ME my Psa Dagr and Mossberg mc2c fill the bill light weight lotsa shots 3.9 inch barrels for ballistic goodness and I can hit stuff with them. Find what works for you.
I will only add this to Mackay's summary. You'll be dealing with a ruthless MFer who will not hesitate and despite your anguish, he will keep beating/shooting/twisting the knife in you until you are a gurgling puddle of goo.
You must be just as ruthless. Don't hesitate to respond with overwhelming force and don't stop until he's down and out.
This is primarily a software problem, but the hardware has to be up to the job. Don't choose hardware that will work if everything goes right. Choose hardware that will work when everything goes wrong.
Hard to argue against a Glock 19. Uber reliable and easy to shoot well. And I’ve still got the original one I purchased many many years ago.
That being said, I mostly carry my Sig P365 nowadays for ease of concealment. Like Gunner500 mentioned, I carry a couple of spare 15 round mags in my back pocket. Only difference is I carry the gun with the factory 12 round mag in it, so that gives me 13 rounds, initially, and 30 rounds of backup ammo.
And if I carry a bigger gun, say the size of the Glock 19, I usually opt for my Glock 32 in 357 Sig. Same exact size and frame as the Model 19, except with the ballistics of a 357 Magnum round. Or a full sized 1911 in 45 acp. Just depends on whether I’m going to town, or working around the Ranch. Don’t feel the need for the extra rounds at the Ranch, as the “bad guy” will most likely be a feral hog, a coyote, or a rattlesnake. And if I’m working at the Ranch, there’s always a AR-15 and a 12 ga pump mounted on the Ranger or in the truck real close by. I use my Glock 19 mostly for plinking nowadays.
Most of the time I have a G19 or P365. I shoot both of them well and I'm confident in both of them. The question of which one is mainly about how slim of a profile is needed for what I'm wearing that day. Reading numbers they may not seem that different...and in most cases either can still be concealed...but the P365 "feels" a lot smaller when carried. However, as another mentioned, I shoot it like a bigger gun....and I can't explain why.
Looking at it from Mackay's point of view, if I was planning on a gunfight, I'd probably go with the G19....but I wouldn't feel hindered with the P365.
Most of the time I have a G19 or P365. I shoot both of them well and I'm confident in both of them. The question of which one is mainly about how slim of a profile is needed for what I'm wearing that day. Reading numbers they may not seem that different...and in most cases either can still be concealed...but the P365 "feels" a lot smaller when carried. However, as another mentioned, I shoot it like a bigger gun....and I can't explain why.
Looking at it from Mackay's point of view, if I was planning on a gunfight, I'd probably go with the G19....but I wouldn't feel hindered with the P365.
Agreed. The P365 just feels “quite a bit smaller” when I’m wearing it. And I too, shoot it like a much bigger gun. Complete confidence in it too. And I was never a big fan of Sig before I bought the P365.
Ask yourself if the gun you are choosing is one that you are willing to get into a standup gunfight with, against one or two attackers, who are armed. Since they (I will use plural verbiage, but it may be a single person) chose to commit heinous acts upon their fellow man, likely planned beforehand and are carrying substantial firepower. Odds are in their favor right from the start, as they intended them to be in their favor. They deliberately planned it this way.
Many tend to choose handguns that are really Talismans. In other words, they are relying on hope as a strategy. They "hope" that if they produce their little 7 shot micro pistol (that is comfortable to carry)and point it in the direction of what scares them it will ward off evil and that will be all it takes.This has never made any sense, as there is an expectation that the bad guys are thinking rationally.The fact is that the very vast majority of people commiting violent crimes/shootings, etc, are either under the influence of narcotics and/or suffering from a mental health issue.They are not rational thinkers, so expecting them to behave rationally is simply not something one should bet their life on.
In talking with a lot of people who carry these tiny pocket guns over the years, and getting into their thought process it is pretty much always the same.
They "hope" they don't have to actually engage in exchanging back and forth fire with an adversary or two.
That is their strategy.
Their tiny gun is really a good luck charm.
The reality is that a person is better off choosing a handgun not based on what feels good in their hand, or what fits in their pocket. They are better off choosing a handgun that they can actually perform well with under stress. Ask yourself "what is the smallest handgun I am willing to get into a gunfight with against 1 or 2 armed men?" That is your answer.
Some guns are great to carry in your pocket and you can shoot them well, standing, shooting slowfire. But when it comes to making fast and accurate hits at any sort of distance, that is where the wheels fall off.
Don't rely on the old nonsense of "average" gunfights being 3.5 rounds at 10 feet nonsense. Most of those statistics are heavily skewed anyways, having such things as dog attacks and various shootings that are not relevant thrown in the mix. Plus, you are "hoping" you are not a statistical outlier.
Choose what you can make fast and accurate hits with. Not a talisman that is comfortable to carry.
You will get the fight you get, not the one you want to get.
The odds will likely already be against you right from the beginning, so choose wisely.
Mostly bullshit.
The average person carrying a firearm for self-defense is not in the Cop business. They don't have to pick a fight. They can use the threat of lethal force to leave a bad situation.
I don't understand why you completely fail to grasp that a self-defense handgun is carried to get you out of a bad situation - not make an arrest or "save the day". So it is more important for people to have any gun with them as opposed to having the optimum gun.
Now to your points:
Bad guys may not be super rational, but they damn well all seem to know that getting shot is bad ju-ju. And when they get shot, they find it difficult to continue their nefarious ways.
Any gun is a talisman if you don't know how to run it, and, most importantly, if you're not willing to use it (or it is at home in the safe because it is a pain to carry). This "fast and accurate" mantra is misused all the time by [bleep] who can't open their eyes and see that proficiency has little to with the size of the gun.
Rational people pay attention to statistics. Statistics are reality, "what abouts" are bullshit and mental masturbation.
"The best fight is the one you avoid" - said some smart person somewhere, sometime.
Situational awareness trumps handgun choice everytime, without fail.
I worked in a 500+ bed county jail for a decade. Inmates showed me their bullet scars and told me their stories. The most interesting was that they worried less about staring down the barrel of a Cop's gun than a civilian's. But none of them felt bullet proof.
I like the Glock 19x. I have giant sized hands somewhere between a 2x-3x glove size. I can shoot a smaller framed pistol about as well but really like a full size grip that I can wrap all of my fingers around.
I like the Glock 19x. I have giant sized hands somewhere between a 2x-3x glove size. I can shoot a smaller framed pistol about as well but really like a full size grip that I can wrap all of my fingers around.
I don't really understand the 19X. What's the advantage vs the Glock 17?
Ask yourself if the gun you are choosing is one that you are willing to get into a standup gunfight with, against one or two attackers, who are armed. Since they (I will use plural verbiage, but it may be a single person) chose to commit heinous acts upon their fellow man, likely planned beforehand and are carrying substantial firepower. Odds are in their favor right from the start, as they intended them to be in their favor. They deliberately planned it this way.
Many tend to choose handguns that are really Talismans. In other words, they are relying on hope as a strategy. They "hope" that if they produce their little 7 shot micro pistol (that is comfortable to carry)and point it in the direction of what scares them it will ward off evil and that will be all it takes.This has never made any sense, as there is an expectation that the bad guys are thinking rationally.The fact is that the very vast majority of people commiting violent crimes/shootings, etc, are either under the influence of narcotics and/or suffering from a mental health issue.They are not rational thinkers, so expecting them to behave rationally is simply not something one should bet their life on.
In talking with a lot of people who carry these tiny pocket guns over the years, and getting into their thought process it is pretty much always the same.
They "hope" they don't have to actually engage in exchanging back and forth fire with an adversary or two.
That is their strategy.
Their tiny gun is really a good luck charm.
The reality is that a person is better off choosing a handgun not based on what feels good in their hand, or what fits in their pocket. They are better off choosing a handgun that they can actually perform well with under stress. Ask yourself "what is the smallest handgun I am willing to get into a gunfight with against 1 or 2 armed men?" That is your answer.
Some guns are great to carry in your pocket and you can shoot them well, standing, shooting slowfire. But when it comes to making fast and accurate hits at any sort of distance, that is where the wheels fall off.
Don't rely on the old nonsense of "average" gunfights being 3.5 rounds at 10 feet nonsense. Most of those statistics are heavily skewed anyways, having such things as dog attacks and various shootings that are not relevant thrown in the mix. Plus, you are "hoping" you are not a statistical outlier.
Choose what you can make fast and accurate hits with. Not a talisman that is comfortable to carry.
You will get the fight you get, not the one you want to get.
The odds will likely already be against you right from the beginning, so choose wisely.
Mostly bullshit.
The average person carrying a firearm for self-defense is not in the Cop business. They don't have to pick a fight. They can use the threat of lethal force to leave a bad situation.
I don't understand why you completely fail to grasp that a self-defense handgun is carried to get you out of a bad situation - not make an arrest or "save the day". So it is more important for people to have any gun with them as opposed to having the optimum gun.
Now to your points:
Bad guys may not be super rational, but they damn well all seem to know that getting shot is bad ju-ju. And when they get shot, they find it difficult to continue their nefarious ways.
Any gun is a talisman if you don't know how to run it, and, most importantly, if you're not willing to use it (or it is at home in the safe because it is a pain to carry). This "fast and accurate" mantra is misused all the time by [bleep] who can't open their eyes and see that proficiency has little to with the size of the gun.
Rational people pay attention to statistics. Statistics are reality, "what abouts" are bullshit and mental masturbation.
"The best fight is the one you avoid" - said some smart person somewhere, sometime.
Situational awareness trumps handgun choice everytime, without fail.
I worked in a 500+ bed county jail for a decade. Inmates showed me their bullet scars and told me their stories. The most interesting was that they worried less about staring down the barrel of a Cop's gun than a civilian's. But none of them felt bullet proof.
Your response is the difference between theorizing, and 30 years experience actually carrying a gun for a living and being involved in shootings.
It is not a matter of "picking a fight" most of the time you don't get a "choice". You simply have to deal with the terrible situation that unfolds in front of you. If you actually had any experience, you would know that.
I like the Glock 19x. I have giant sized hands somewhere between a 2x-3x glove size. I can shoot a smaller framed pistol about as well but really like a full size grip that I can wrap all of my fingers around.
I don't really understand the 19X. What's the advantage vs the Glock 17?
Only that it shaves an inch or so off of the slide length which is especially nice for appendix carry, it make a noticeable difference. It’s still a bigger gun but as someone that likes a full size frame to get my hand around it’s the best compromise between getting a full grip and still making it as compact as possible.
It’s probably mostly just an individual preference thing.
Ask yourself if the gun you are choosing is one that you are willing to get into a standup gunfight with, against one or two attackers, who are armed. Since they (I will use plural verbiage, but it may be a single person) chose to commit heinous acts upon their fellow man, likely planned beforehand and are carrying substantial firepower. Odds are in their favor right from the start, as they intended them to be in their favor. They deliberately planned it this way.
Many tend to choose handguns that are really Talismans. In other words, they are relying on hope as a strategy. They "hope" that if they produce their little 7 shot micro pistol (that is comfortable to carry)and point it in the direction of what scares them it will ward off evil and that will be all it takes.This has never made any sense, as there is an expectation that the bad guys are thinking rationally.The fact is that the very vast majority of people commiting violent crimes/shootings, etc, are either under the influence of narcotics and/or suffering from a mental health issue.They are not rational thinkers, so expecting them to behave rationally is simply not something one should bet their life on.
In talking with a lot of people who carry these tiny pocket guns over the years, and getting into their thought process it is pretty much always the same.
They "hope" they don't have to actually engage in exchanging back and forth fire with an adversary or two.
That is their strategy.
Their tiny gun is really a good luck charm.
The reality is that a person is better off choosing a handgun not based on what feels good in their hand, or what fits in their pocket. They are better off choosing a handgun that they can actually perform well with under stress. Ask yourself "what is the smallest handgun I am willing to get into a gunfight with against 1 or 2 armed men?" That is your answer.
Some guns are great to carry in your pocket and you can shoot them well, standing, shooting slowfire. But when it comes to making fast and accurate hits at any sort of distance, that is where the wheels fall off.
Don't rely on the old nonsense of "average" gunfights being 3.5 rounds at 10 feet nonsense. Most of those statistics are heavily skewed anyways, having such things as dog attacks and various shootings that are not relevant thrown in the mix. Plus, you are "hoping" you are not a statistical outlier.
Choose what you can make fast and accurate hits with. Not a talisman that is comfortable to carry.
You will get the fight you get, not the one you want to get.
The odds will likely already be against you right from the beginning, so choose wisely.
Mostly bullshit.
The average person carrying a firearm for self-defense is not in the Cop business. They don't have to pick a fight. They can use the threat of lethal force to leave a bad situation.
I don't understand why you completely fail to grasp that a self-defense handgun is carried to get you out of a bad situation - not make an arrest or "save the day". So it is more important for people to have any gun with them as opposed to having the optimum gun.
Now to your points:
Bad guys may not be super rational, but they damn well all seem to know that getting shot is bad ju-ju. And when they get shot, they find it difficult to continue their nefarious ways.
Any gun is a talisman if you don't know how to run it, and, most importantly, if you're not willing to use it (or it is at home in the safe because it is a pain to carry). This "fast and accurate" mantra is misused all the time by [bleep] who can't open their eyes and see that proficiency has little to with the size of the gun.
Rational people pay attention to statistics. Statistics are reality, "what abouts" are bullshit and mental masturbation.
"The best fight is the one you avoid" - said some smart person somewhere, sometime.
Situational awareness trumps handgun choice everytime, without fail.
I worked in a 500+ bed county jail for a decade. Inmates showed me their bullet scars and told me their stories. The most interesting was that they worried less about staring down the barrel of a Cop's gun than a civilian's. But none of them felt bullet proof.
Your response is the difference between theorizing, and 30 years experience actually carrying a gun for a living and being involved in shootings.
It is not a matter of "picking a fight" most of the time you don't get a "choice". You simply have to deal with the terrible situation that unfolds in front of you. If you actually had any experience, you would know that.
Theory vs reality.
I think that’s especially true for men.
I can see where a woman is likely to be attacked by an unarmed or knife carrying male attacker believing that they don’t need a gun to over power a woman and sexual assault being a likely motive for the attack. In that circumstance most any reliable pistol that she is prepared to use would turn the tables.
As men if we’re put in a situation that justifies the use of deadly force it’s likely to be by a well armed attacker/attackers. In that situation I personally want more than a pocket pistol.
Your response is the difference between theorizing, and 30 years experience actually carrying a gun for a living and being involved in shootings.
It is not a matter of "picking a fight" most of the time you don't get a "choice". You simply have to deal with the terrible situation that unfolds in front of you. If you actually had any experience, you would know that.
Theory vs reality.
You are wrong and right:
Wrong - Your mindset is that of a cop. Damned few folks are cops. You deliberately get involved in bad situations.
Right - having to deal with the terrible situation that unfolds in front of you.
I like the Glock 19x. I have giant sized hands somewhere between a 2x-3x glove size. I can shoot a smaller framed pistol about as well but really like a full size grip that I can wrap all of my fingers around.
I don't really understand the 19X. What's the advantage vs the Glock 17?
Only that it shaves an inch or so off of the slide length which is especially nice for appendix carry, it make a noticeable difference. It’s still a bigger gun but as someone that likes a full size frame to get my hand around it’s the best compromise between getting a full grip and still making it as compact as possible.
It’s probably mostly just an individual preference thing.
I see what you mean. For Appendix Carry, it makes sense.
I like the Glock 19x. I have giant sized hands somewhere between a 2x-3x glove size. I can shoot a smaller framed pistol about as well but really like a full size grip that I can wrap all of my fingers around.
I don't really understand the 19X. What's the advantage vs the Glock 17?
Only that it shaves an inch or so off of the slide length which is especially nice for appendix carry, it make a noticeable difference. It’s still a bigger gun but as someone that likes a full size frame to get my hand around it’s the best compromise between getting a full grip and still making it as compact as possible.
It’s probably mostly just an individual preference thing.
I see what you mean. For Appendix Carry, it makes sense.
I bought one when they first came out. To me, it didn’t balance and point as well as my 19 or my 32, which of course, is the same size as the 19. Shot it a while, then sent it on down the road. And I kept my 19 and 32, of course. If I ever feel the need to carry a bigger Glock, my Model 20 is my go to.
I like the Glock 19x. I have giant sized hands somewhere between a 2x-3x glove size. I can shoot a smaller framed pistol about as well but really like a full size grip that I can wrap all of my fingers around.
I don't really understand the 19X. What's the advantage vs the Glock 17?
Only that it shaves an inch or so off of the slide length which is especially nice for appendix carry, it make a noticeable difference. It’s still a bigger gun but as someone that likes a full size frame to get my hand around it’s the best compromise between getting a full grip and still making it as compact as possible.
It’s probably mostly just an individual preference thing.
I see what you mean. For Appendix Carry, it makes sense.
I bought one when they first came out. To me, it didn’t balance and point as well as my 19 or my 32, which of course, is the same size as the 19. Shot it a while, then sent it on down the road. And I kept my 19 and 32, of course. If I ever feel the need to carry a bigger Glock, my Model 20 is my go to.
I can see where the 19 balances a bit better but I hate having my pinky finger dangling in space. Practically speaking it may not matter much but it feels like a big pocket pistol. I like how the 19x fits my hand so I’m okay with a little more frame size. It all comes down to individual perceptions.
The best pure pointing pistol that I own for me is the Beretta 92f. The grips a little short and it’s to chunky but it seems to always point right where I’m looking despite not shooting it often.
I like 1911’s but the single stack frames feel a little bit to thin.
A lot of people rave about CZ pistols. I have full and compact models I like them a lot but they don’t fit my hand as well as the full-size Glock 9mm frames. I have a few FN’s and really like the FNX 45 tactical and 509 tactical grip frames. They’re my favorites next to the Glocks.
Ask yourself if the gun you are choosing is one that you are willing to get into a standup gunfight with, against one or two attackers, who are armed. Since they (I will use plural verbiage, but it may be a single person) chose to commit heinous acts upon their fellow man, likely planned beforehand and are carrying substantial firepower. Odds are in their favor right from the start, as they intended them to be in their favor. They deliberately planned it this way.
Many tend to choose handguns that are really Talismans. In other words, they are relying on hope as a strategy. They "hope" that if they produce their little 7 shot micro pistol (that is comfortable to carry)and point it in the direction of what scares them it will ward off evil and that will be all it takes. This has never made any sense, as there is an expectation that the bad guys are thinking rationally. The fact is that the very vast majority of people commiting violent crimes/shootings, etc, are either under the influence of narcotics and/or suffering from a mental health issue. They are not rational thinkers, so expecting them to behave rationally is simply not something one should bet their life on.
In talking with a lot of people who carry these tiny pocket guns over the years, and getting into their thought process it is pretty much always the same.
They "hope" they don't have to actually engage in exchanging back and forth fire with an adversary or two.
That is their strategy.
Their tiny gun is really a good luck charm.
The reality is that a person is better off choosing a handgun not based on what feels good in their hand, or what fits in their pocket. They are better off choosing a handgun that they can actually perform well with under stress. Ask yourself "what is the smallest handgun I am willing to get into a gunfight with against 1 or 2 armed men?" That is your answer.
Some guns are great to carry in your pocket and you can shoot them well, standing, shooting slowfire. But when it comes to making fast and accurate hits at any sort of distance, that is where the wheels fall off.
Don't rely on the old nonsense of "average" gunfights being 3.5 rounds at 10 feet nonsense. Most of those statistics are heavily skewed anyways, having such things as dog attacks and various shootings that are not relevant thrown in the mix. Plus, you are "hoping" you are not a statistical outlier.
Choose what you can make fast and accurate hits with. Not a talisman that is comfortable to carry.
You will get the fight you get, not the one you want to get.
The odds will likely already be against you right from the beginning, so choose wisely.
Great post..........i want nothing to do with micro guns of any type. And the pure fact is that no one really shoots them as well as a mid-size or full size handgun, especially at distances over essentially, point blank. (As a BUG I will carry a J-frame on occasion)
I want shoot-ability & capacity over all else. Period.
The G-19 or the S&W 2.0 Compact are just about perfection in all regards, depending on which one fits better & shoots better for you.
Or a Commander sized 1911, albiet, giving up some round capacity.
Learn to get the right holster & attire & they are all easily concealed.
Glocks are my favorite…but been damn impressed with my two Springfield XDS mod2 3.3” pistols. This is the 9mm. Quite small, but easy to shoot well, with 9+1 capacity. Usually 2 to 4 spare mags on me, depending on where I’m at, or heading. I mostly carry the .40 XDS mod2 3.3” though.
I’ve always been a big SIG fan. My experience is that they have the best out of the box trigger pull and that is very important.
That being said, if I was considering a carry gun, I would get the one that I was most comfortable shooting. Triggers can be modified. Three of my four carry guns are SIGs.
Ask yourself if the gun you are choosing is one that you are willing to get into a standup gunfight with, against one or two attackers, who are armed. Since they (I will use plural verbiage, but it may be a single person) chose to commit heinous acts upon their fellow man, likely planned beforehand and are carrying substantial firepower. Odds are in their favor right from the start, as they intended them to be in their favor. They deliberately planned it this way.
Many tend to choose handguns that are really Talismans. In other words, they are relying on hope as a strategy. They "hope" that if they produce their little 7 shot micro pistol (that is comfortable to carry)and point it in the direction of what scares them it will ward off evil and that will be all it takes.This has never made any sense, as there is an expectation that the bad guys are thinking rationally.The fact is that the very vast majority of people commiting violent crimes/shootings, etc, are either under the influence of narcotics and/or suffering from a mental health issue.They are not rational thinkers, so expecting them to behave rationally is simply not something one should bet their life on.
In talking with a lot of people who carry these tiny pocket guns over the years, and getting into their thought process it is pretty much always the same.
They "hope" they don't have to actually engage in exchanging back and forth fire with an adversary or two.
That is their strategy.
Their tiny gun is really a good luck charm.
The reality is that a person is better off choosing a handgun not based on what feels good in their hand, or what fits in their pocket. They are better off choosing a handgun that they can actually perform well with under stress. Ask yourself "what is the smallest handgun I am willing to get into a gunfight with against 1 or 2 armed men?" That is your answer.
Some guns are great to carry in your pocket and you can shoot them well, standing, shooting slowfire. But when it comes to making fast and accurate hits at any sort of distance, that is where the wheels fall off.
Don't rely on the old nonsense of "average" gunfights being 3.5 rounds at 10 feet nonsense. Most of those statistics are heavily skewed anyways, having such things as dog attacks and various shootings that are not relevant thrown in the mix. Plus, you are "hoping" you are not a statistical outlier.
Choose what you can make fast and accurate hits with. Not a talisman that is comfortable to carry.
You will get the fight you get, not the one you want to get.
The odds will likely already be against you right from the beginning, so choose wisely.
Mostly bullshit.
The average person carrying a firearm for self-defense is not in the Cop business. They don't have to pick a fight. They can use the threat of lethal force to leave a bad situation.
I don't understand why you completely fail to grasp that a self-defense handgun is carried to get you out of a bad situation - not make an arrest or "save the day". So it is more important for people to have any gun with them as opposed to having the optimum gun.
Now to your points:
Bad guys may not be super rational, but they damn well all seem to know that getting shot is bad ju-ju. And when they get shot, they find it difficult to continue their nefarious ways.
Any gun is a talisman if you don't know how to run it, and, most importantly, if you're not willing to use it (or it is at home in the safe because it is a pain to carry). This "fast and accurate" mantra is misused all the time by [bleep] who can't open their eyes and see that proficiency has little to with the size of the gun.
Rational people pay attention to statistics. Statistics are reality, "what abouts" are bullshit and mental masturbation.
"The best fight is the one you avoid" - said some smart person somewhere, sometime.
Situational awareness trumps handgun choice everytime, without fail.
I worked in a 500+ bed county jail for a decade. Inmates showed me their bullet scars and told me their stories. The most interesting was that they worried less about staring down the barrel of a Cop's gun than a civilian's. But none of them felt bullet proof.
But 365/365XL/365X? Which one is the Goldilocks gun?
Since your Goldilocks question is specifically about these three variations of the Sig 365, I would say, in order of my personal preference; 365XL first, 365X a close second and the 365 third.
I like the grip of the X and the XL. The only significant difference that I can see is that the barrel and slide of the XL is 0.6 inches longer than the X.
But I'd be happy with either.
If it wasn't for the fact that today I put a deposit down on a 365 XL Spectre Comp for oh, about twice the money my LGS was asking for the standard XL.
I personally don’t like the original 365, I’ve tried shooting them several times but i just can’t shoot them accurately. They feel too much like a pocket pistol to me. With that being said ive got a 365xl and I love it, i shoot it better than even most of my full-size guns and it’s fixing to go into the carry rotation. Here lately my main smaller edc has been a Glock 43x, its a great gun. It feels great in the hand and shoots good. If I decide to carry a bigger gun its a Glock 23 but thats rare these days.
But 365/365XL/365X? Which one is the Goldilocks gun?
Since your Goldilocks question is specifically about these three variations of the Sig 365, I would say, in order of my personal preference; 365XL first, 365X a close second and the 365 third.
I like the grip of the X and the XL. The only significant difference that I can see is that the barrel and slide of the XL is 0.6 inches longer than the X.
But I'd be happy with either.
If it wasn't for the fact that today I put a deposit down on a 365 XL Spectre Comp for oh, about twice the money my LGS was asking for the standard XL.
Early birthday present for me.
I'd likely agree with your preference, but have been looking for a 365XL unsuccessfully for a month now. Finally left cash with an "internet dealer", who agreed to check his distributor a couple of times a day. He called and said he had the 365X available but that the chance would fade in minutes. I told him to grab it.
Johnw, I noticed while I was combing the internet that a lot of flavors of Sigs are scarce right now.
The manager of my LGS, less than a week ago, told me he had two 365XLSCs in the shop the previous week, he sold both of them the same day, and Sig would not give him an estimated date for his next shipment.
After a couple of days of internet cruising, I decided that, hell, maybe I didn't want it all that much, anyway. The 365XL is pretty nice. But those are scarce, too.
So two days later, I went back to see if they had an XL, and I was going to buy if if they did (they didn't), and the manager spotted me from across the store. He said, hey, I was just about to dial your number. I'm getting an XLSC in next week. Do you want it?
I had my credit card out as I walked over to him. I should have it by Thursday.
As for your 365X, I don't think you're going to be unhappy with it at all.
I now carry a 365XL because it came out as the most reasonable when you plug in all the factors i deemed important and based on recommendations from a few of you. The gun fits my hand well, it holds a reasonable amount of rounds and in a caliber that bullet technology has now made it acceptable for self-defense. Never been involved in a gun fight and I don't want to be, but there are literally REAMS of data out there validating all kinds of factors.
The Glock 19 is about as good as it gets, but the 365 is a LOT easier to carry and conceal and round count is more than adequate when you consider statistical data on guns used for self defense (not gunfights by LEOs) the situation is settled with five rounds or LESS. Sure more is always better, I remember during the Gulf War aircrews were loading up their survival gear (Browning Hi-Powers were the "de rigueur"weapon of the day but I carried a 1911) with multiple magazines, combat knives, etc., in the hopes of "trading lead" with a truck full of Iraqui soldiers with AKs bearing down in your position. "That is the fight you get" and unless the RESCAP A-10s, gunships and extraction teams were overhead, that Browning was as useless at tits on a boar hog. For the everyday citizen like most of us are, personal choice, based on one's risk assessment works for me,but after reading some comments, the only thing that would satisfy some of you guys are belt-fed, crew served weaponry.
I now carry a 365XL because it came out as the most reasonable when you plug in all the factors i deemed important and based on recommendations from a few of you. The gun fits my hand well, it holds a reasonable amount of rounds and in a caliber that bullet technology has now made it acceptable for self-defense. Never been involved in a gun fight and I don't want to be, but there are literally REAMS of data out there validating all kinds of factors.
The Glock 19 is about as good as it gets, but the 365 is a LOT easier to carry and conceal and round count is more than adequate when you consider statistical data on guns used for self defense (not gunfights by LEOs) the situation is settled with five rounds or LESS. Sure more is always better, I remember during the Gulf War aircrews were loading up their survival gear (Browning Hi-Powers were the "de rigueur"weapon of the day but I carried a 1911) with multiple magazines, combat knives, etc., in the hopes of "trading lead" with a truck full of Iraqui soldiers with AKs bearing down in your position. "That is the fight you get" and unless the RESCAP A-10s, gunships and extraction teams were overhead, that Browning was as useless at tits on a boar hog. For the everyday citizen like most of us are, personal choice, based on one's risk assessment works for me,but after reading some comments, the only thing that would satisfy some of you guys are belt-fed, crew served weaponry.
I think that Mackay is correct in his assertion that better armed is generally better. But I think that he misses the point that a lot of guys work in an environment where carry of any weapon at all is strictly prohibited. If they do decide to carry, they gotta weigh the potential of losing their employment, if caught doing so. And in some cases, some places, they might even lose their freedom for being armed.
And this is a real thing. I know a guy personally who worked in such a place. Company man, on the executive team. In the years before Illinois passed their concealed carry law, he commonly carried a pocket .380. A talisman, in Mackay's estimation. He used that talisman to shoot one of 3 armed attackers who accosted him while he was out of the office at lunch time. The fight ended when he shot, but his battles had just begun.
He was never charged with unlawful carry. The only criminal charges he ever faced were misdemeanors. But the company he worked for decided that his services were no longer required. He fought his termination in court and won. But his time there, and his success with them was clearly a thing of the past. Today he raises funds far various non-profits, and makes more money than when he was on the "A" Team. He eventually was awarded his concealed carry permit, but had to go through the appeals process to get it.
As to talisman guns, almost every case of self defense I hear of, where I here anything about the weapon used, involves them. I think Mackay is wrong on that point. Guys choose to carry what they are able to, in order to give themselves a chance to influence what happens around them when things turn [bleep].
Hickok45 has become a real fanboy of the P-365. He was, for most of his YouTube presence, a huge proponent of the Glock line, particularly the 19/23 and 26/27.
As to talisman guns, almost every case of self defense I hear of, where I here anything about the weapon used, involves them. I think Mackay is wrong on that point. Guys choose to carry what they are able to, in order to give themselves a chance to influence what happens around them when things turn [bleep].
Been that way forever...
Well put.
Mackay is a cop and has a Cop's mindset. But Cop's are about 2 per thousand population, or 0.2%. Everyone else is not a cop and has to go about the world NOT A COP.
When Mackay speaks he's not telling anyone what to do, he's giving an opinion, and that opinion is based on being a cop, a civilian & in the military so use it not. Its great advice for those that know him & care to use it to their advantage. If you don't want to, just move on to the next topic. Trust me, he doesn't need anyone defending him! Dick
When Mackay speaks he's not telling anyone what to do, he's giving an opinion, and that opinion is based on being a cop, a civilian & in the military so use it not. Its great advice for those that know him & care to use it to their advantage. If you don't want to, just move on to the next topic. Trust me, he doesn't need anyone defending him! Dick
10 years ago....I thought a j-frame or an LCP was about as good as it could get for a CCW piece. I bought into the 3 shots from 3 feet in 3 seconds theory. However, over the last few years having watched the videos of these shootings and how things go down; it has really changed my way of thinking. Like others have mentioned here, I want nothing to do with a micro pistol. I want good sights, the ability to get a good purchase on the gun, and decent capacity. These are what I've decided on. The g48 and when dress allows it....the 19 with a Leupold Delta Point.
Hickok45 has become a real fanboy of the P-365. He was, for most of his YouTube presence, a huge proponent of the Glock line, particularly the 19/23 and 26/27.
Call it a talisman, or whatever, the P365 platform checks a lot of boxes.
10 years ago....I thought a j-frame or an LCP was about as good as it could get for a CCW piece. I bought into the 3 shots from 3 feet in 3 seconds theory. However, over the last few years having watched the videos of these shootings and how things go down; it has really changed my way of thinking. Like others have mentioned here, I want nothing to do with a micro pistol. I want good sights, the ability to get a good purchase on the gun, and decent capacity. These are what I've decided on. The g48 and when dress allows it....the 19 with a Leupold Delta Point.
Did your 19 come OSP ready or did you have the slide milled?
Hickok45 has become a real fanboy of the P-365. He was, for most of his YouTube presence, a huge proponent of the Glock line, particularly the 19/23 and 26/27.
Call it a talisman, or whatever, the P365 platform checks a lot of boxes.
For a guy living in a state that requires a FOID card and has only been carrying concealed a few years, you sure throw that talisman word around a bunch.
Hickok45 has become a real fanboy of the P-365. He was, for most of his YouTube presence, a huge proponent of the Glock line, particularly the 19/23 and 26/27.
Call it a talisman, or whatever, the P365 platform checks a lot of boxes.
For a guy living in a state that requires a FOID card and has only been carrying concealed a few years, you sure throw that talisman word around a bunch.
It seems as though you have it all figured out.
Well, have had a purchase permit system since 93. No concealed carry till 2006 so I didn’t start till 2008 only 14 years concealed, but I have open carried since 1974 so does that count?
I’ve got 3 talismans that I use regularly a PPK, G26 and the super talisman 1911 for concealed, open carry was either 41 mag or 357 now those are talisman’s.
I now carry a 365XL because it came out as the most reasonable when you plug in all the factors i deemed important and based on recommendations from a few of you. The gun fits my hand well, it holds a reasonable amount of rounds and in a caliber that bullet technology has now made it acceptable for self-defense. Never been involved in a gun fight and I don't want to be, but there are literally REAMS of data out there validating all kinds of factors.
The Glock 19 is about as good as it gets, but the 365 is a LOT easier to carry and conceal and round count is more than adequate when you consider statistical data on guns used for self defense (not gunfights by LEOs) the situation is settled with five rounds or LESS. Sure more is always better, I remember during the Gulf War aircrews were loading up their survival gear (Browning Hi-Powers were the "de rigueur"weapon of the day but I carried a 1911) with multiple magazines, combat knives, etc., in the hopes of "trading lead" with a truck full of Iraqui soldiers with AKs bearing down in your position. "That is the fight you get" and unless the RESCAP A-10s, gunships and extraction teams were overhead, that Browning was as useless at tits on a boar hog. For the everyday citizen like most of us are, personal choice, based on one's risk assessment works for me,but after reading some comments, the only thing that would satisfy some of you guys are belt-fed, crew served weaponry.
I think that Mackay is correct in his assertion that better armed is generally better. But I think that he misses the point that a lot of guys work in an environment where carry of any weapon at all is strictly prohibited. If they do decide to carry, they gotta weigh the potential of losing their employment, if caught doing so. And in some cases, some places, they might even lose their freedom for being armed.
And this is a real thing. I know a guy personally who worked in such a place. Company man, on the executive team. In the years before Illinois passed their concealed carry law, he commonly carried a pocket .380. A talisman, in Mackay's estimation. He used that talisman to shoot one of 3 armed attackers who accosted him while he was out of the office at lunch time. The fight ended when he shot, but his battles had just begun.
He was never charged with unlawful carry. The only criminal charges he ever faced were misdemeanors. But the company he worked for decided that his services were no longer required. He fought his termination in court and won. But his time there, and his success with them was clearly a thing of the past. Today he raises funds far various non-profits, and makes more money than when he was on the "A" Team. He eventually was awarded his concealed carry permit, but had to go through the appeals process to get it.
As to talisman guns, almost every case of self defense I hear of, where I here anything about the weapon used, involves them. I think Mackay is wrong on that point. Guys choose to carry what they are able to, in order to give themselves a chance to influence what happens around them when things turn [bleep].
Been that way forever...
While I pay close attention to what Mackay writes, I have to agree with this. I carried legally in spite of company rules for years. During that time, the biggest gun I carried on the job was the K9 - and for exactly those reasons. And during much of that time, the K9 was the sweet spot of concealment/power/shootability. But I always wished I could carry the HiPower instead. You can dress around the gun to an extent, but at some point you gotta choose what works for you and your environment.
Hickok45 has become a real fanboy of the P-365. He was, for most of his YouTube presence, a huge proponent of the Glock line, particularly the 19/23 and 26/27.
Call it a talisman, or whatever, the P365 platform checks a lot of boxes.
For a guy living in a state that requires a FOID card and has only been carrying concealed a few years, you sure throw that talisman word around a bunch.
It seems as though you have it all figured out.
Morons abound
And yeah, I have a few things figured out. Mostly original thinking on my part.
^^ While I think the P365 (assuming 9mm standard model here) is pretty good, I can't keep up with a Glock 19 in terms of speed. Hopefully, you are better than me. Also, if you are talking about the standard model P365 with 10 round magazines, you also may run into an issue with reload speed because the empty magazine in the gun can get hung up in the palm of the hand unless you strip the magazine or come up with a different solution. I still was willing to make the switch.
If you really want speed, go with the .380 version, but most people will recoil in horror at that thought.
Hickok45 has become a real fanboy of the P-365. He was, for most of his YouTube presence, a huge proponent of the Glock line, particularly the 19/23 and 26/27.
Call it a talisman, or whatever, the P365 platform checks a lot of boxes.
For a guy living in a state that requires a FOID card and has only been carrying concealed a few years, you sure throw that talisman word around a bunch.
It seems as though you have it all figured out.
Morons abound
And yeah, I have a few things figured out. Mostly original thinking on my part.
I get the need for a sub compact hideaway gun, I have to ask, how did it do in your last gun fight?
If you haven’t been in a gun fight, how did it do in a match?
I’ll start off by saying I thought one of my J frames were all I’d ever need and I still carry them when I have to. But reality is they reload slow so I bought a Shield, then a G43, then shot a Sig 365. I shot none of them as well as a G19 so that’s my primary pistol.
Choose whichever pistol you wish but don’t ignore the facts, out of all the shooters and pistols we saw come through our CC mouse gun matches, no one shot a sub compact better than a compact G19 sized pistol.
I get the need for a sub compact hideaway gun, I have to ask, how did it do in your last gun fight?
If you haven’t been in a gun fight, how did it do in a match?
I’ll start off by saying I thought one of my J frames were all I’d ever need and I still carry them when I have to. But reality is they reload slow so I bought a Shield, then a G43, then shot a Sig 365. I shot none of them as well as a G19 so that’s my primary pistol.
Choose whichever pistol you wish but don’t ignore the facts, out of all the shooters and pistols we saw come through our CC mouse gun matches, no one shot a sub compact better than a compact G19 sized pistol.
I've got a Glock 19. When my 365 shows up I'll take them both to the range and shoot them side by side.
If, after a couple of hundred rounds, I can shoot the 365 as fast and as accurate as I can the G19, I will think that's pretty good.
If on a timer and measuring groups I feel pretty sure I'd be "better" with my G19. I think I would have to have a timer and measure placement to tell that though. IMHO, the P365 doesn't outdo the G19....but it does very, very well in a smaller package.
I'm a big fan of full size duty guns but I think the slim/single-stack striker fired guns are a great thing. They are assuredly a compromise but handguns are an inherent compromise. If they weren't we'd all have an M4 and two-point sling or walking around with a Staccoto XL. Assuming a full grip like the Shield, 43X, 365XL's provide, most people can shoot them as well as a full size double stack. Matter of fact, I think a lot of shooters end up shooting them better because the slimmer frame allows a better purchase (more contact) with a lot of shooter's hands and their associated grip.
They provide even greater benefit if you carry IWB and if you're carrying concealed you should be carrying IWB unless your AOR allows you to walk around dressed like an Ice Road Trucker 365 days of the year. Sawing down sight radius and grip length does little to benefit a person carrying IWB and the trade offs are not worth the benefit when you do it to a double stack frame. Guys walk around looking like they got a boner growing out of their hip or tucked up underneath their belt while forfeiting substantial levels of shootability. The single stack designs allow you to maintain a grip that approximates a full size fighting pistol, a rewarding sight radius, and impressive capacity. All while making the gun more concealable, easier to carry, and (in many instances) easier to shoot.
When you start factoring optics (and I believe all serious hand gunners should be today) the 365 size guns make even more sense because sight radius becomes moot.
But I think the most important thing to consider when you're weighing all these options is to ensure you're being honest with yourself. Be sure your choice in handgun is influenced by objective thought. If you find yourself contemplating a G34 as an EDC, and quickly whittle that down to a Ruger LCP, you're probably just being lazy. And in keeping with the theme of objectivity you should work to establish a standard for yourself. Not some bullschit "most fights happen" theory but a real standard that you can do with a reasonable amount of ammo. i.e. Five rounds from the 25 in XXXX, three rounds from the 15 in XXXX, 7yd line, etc. Establish your baseline with a full size gun that you have a high level of confidence with. Let that be your standard.
Last but not least, if you don't own a shot timer, STFU and go buy a shot timer. A phone is not a shot timer.
Hand gunning is a two pronged discipline. Accuracy and speed. Hitting is step one, hitting quickly is step two. If any handgun choice significantly compromises either of these two things, you've picked the wrong gun and in all likelihood, you are lying to yourself.
I'm a big fan of full size duty guns but I think the slim/single-stack striker fired guns are a great thing. They are assuredly a compromise but handguns are an inherent compromise. If they weren't we'd all have an M4 and two-point sling or walking around with a Staccoto XL. Assuming a full grip like the Shield, 43X, 365XL's provide, most people can shoot them as well as a full size double stack. Matter of fact, I think a lot of shooters end up shooting them better because the slimmer grip allows a better purchase (more contact) with a lot of shooter's hands and their associated grip.
They provide even greater benefit if you carry IWB and if you're carrying concealed you should be carrying IWB unless your AOR allows you to walk around dressed like an Ice Road Trucker 365 days of the year. Sawing down sight radius and grip length does little to benefit a person carrying IWB and the trade offs are not worth the benefit when you do it to a double stack frame. Guys walk around looking like they got a boner growing out of their hip or tucked up underneath their belt while forfeiting substantial levels of shootability. The single stack designs allow you to maintain a grip that approximates a full size fighting pistol, a rewarding sight radius, and impressive capacity. All while making the gun more concealable, easier to carry, and (in many instances) easier to shoot.
When you start factoring optics (and I believe all serious hand gunners should be today) the 365 size guns make even more sense because sight radius becomes moot.
But I think the most important thing to consider when you're weighing all these options is to ensure you're being honest with yourself. Be sure your choice in handgun is influenced by objective thought. If you find yourself contemplating a G34 as an EDC, and quickly whittle that down to a Ruger LCP, you're probably just being lazy. And in keeping with the theme of objectivity you should work to establish a standard for yourself. Not some bullschit "most fights happen" theory but a real standard that you can do with a reasonable amount of ammo. i.e. Five rounds from the 25 in XXXX, three rounds from the 15 in XXXX, 7yd line, etc. Establish your baseline with a full size gun that you have a high level of confidence with. Let that be your standard.
Last but not least, if you don't own a shot timer, STFU and go buy a shot timer. A phone is not a shot timer.
Hand gunning is a two pronged discipline. Accuracy and speed. Hitting is step one, hitting quickly is step two. If any handgun choice significantly compromises either of these two things, you've picked the wrong gun and in all likelihood, you are lying to yourself.
I'm a big fan of full size duty guns but I think the slim/single-stack striker fired guns are a great thing. They are assuredly a compromise but handguns are an inherent compromise. If they weren't we'd all have an M4 and two-point sling or walking around with a Staccoto XL. Assuming a full grip like the Shield, 43X, 365XL's provide, most people can shoot them as well as a full size double stack. Matter of fact, I think a lot of shooters end up shooting them better because the slimmer frame allows a better purchase (more contact) with a lot of shooter's hands and their associated grip.
They provide even greater benefit if you carry IWB and if you're carrying concealed you should be carrying IWB unless your AOR allows you to walk around dressed like an Ice Road Trucker 365 days of the year. Sawing down sight radius and grip length does little to benefit a person carrying IWB and the trade offs are not worth the benefit when you do it to a double stack frame. Guys walk around looking like they got a boner growing out of their hip or tucked up underneath their belt while forfeiting substantial levels of shootability. The single stack designs allow you to maintain a grip that approximates a full size fighting pistol, a rewarding sight radius, and impressive capacity. All while making the gun more concealable, easier to carry, and (in many instances) easier to shoot.
When you start factoring optics (and I believe all serious hand gunners should be today) the 365 size guns make even more sense because sight radius becomes moot.
But I think the most important thing to consider when you're weighing all these options is to ensure you're being honest with yourself. Be sure your choice in handgun is influenced by objective thought. If you find yourself contemplating a G34 as an EDC, and quickly whittle that down to a Ruger LCP, you're probably just being lazy. And in keeping with the theme of objectivity you should work to establish a standard for yourself. Not some bullschit "most fights happen" theory but a real standard that you can do with a reasonable amount of ammo. i.e. Five rounds from the 25 in XXXX, three rounds from the 15 in XXXX, 7yd line, etc. Establish your baseline with a full size gun that you have a high level of confidence with. Let that be your standard.
Last but not least, if you don't own a shot timer, STFU and go buy a shot timer. A phone is not a shot timer.
Hand gunning is a two pronged discipline. Accuracy and speed. Hitting is step one, hitting quickly is step two. If any handgun choice significantly compromises either of these two things, you've picked the wrong gun and in all likelihood, you are lying to yourself.
Yes you are sometimes
Statistics are reality, everything else is make-believe
Nor is a shot timer a phone. Time to move into this decade grandpa
Playing games and self-defense do not directly corelate
Assuming a full grip like the Shield, 43X, 365XL's provide, most people can shoot them as well as a full size double stack. Matter of fact, I think a lot of shooters end up shooting them better because the slimmer frame allows a better purchase (more contact) with a lot of shooter's hands and their associated grip.
Regarding grip, I took my new 365XLSC to the range today. 150 rounds of Winchester 124 gr. FMJ. Slow and fast fire. Arm's length to 10 yards. One-handed and two handed.
I'll tell you it's like the grip is custom made for me. Not once, in all 150 rounds, did I feel a need to slightly readjust my shooting hand after recoil. The sights come to my eye naturally.
Assuming a full grip like the Shield, 43X, 365XL's provide, most people can shoot them as well as a full size double stack. Matter of fact, I think a lot of shooters end up shooting them better because the slimmer frame allows a better purchase (more contact) with a lot of shooter's hands and their associated grip.
Regarding grip, I took my new 365XLSC to the range today. 150 rounds of Winchester 124 gr. FMJ. Slow and fast fire. Arm's length to 10 yards. One-handed and two handed.
I'll tell you it's like the grip is custom made for me. Not once, in all 150 rounds, did I feel a need to slightly readjust my shooting hand after recoil. The sights come to my eye naturally.
I dig got those 365's.
God help me I hope I don't bump into one of those Macro's they introduced because I think I'll have to buy it.
Hickok45 has become a real fanboy of the P-365. He was, for most of his YouTube presence, a huge proponent of the Glock line, particularly the 19/23 and 26/27.
Call it a talisman, or whatever, the P365 platform checks a lot of boxes.
For a guy living in a state that requires a FOID card and has only been carrying concealed a few years, you sure throw that talisman word around a bunch.
Assuming a full grip like the Shield, 43X, 365XL's provide, most people can shoot them as well as a full size double stack. Matter of fact, I think a lot of shooters end up shooting them better because the slimmer frame allows a better purchase (more contact) with a lot of shooter's hands and their associated grip.
Regarding grip, I took my new 365XLSC to the range today. 150 rounds of Winchester 124 gr. FMJ. Slow and fast fire. Arm's length to 10 yards. One-handed and two handed.
I'll tell you it's like the grip is custom made for me. Not once, in all 150 rounds, did I feel a need to slightly readjust my shooting hand after recoil. The sights come to my eye naturally.
Picked up the P365X this morning, and am as happy with it as I've ever been with a new handgun.
I only have 50 rounds through it so far. It came with 2X12 round mags and I did 13 and 12 twice.The shop I bought it from is in the opposite direction from home as the range I usually use. But one of the wife's nephews lives on a rural property almost on the way home from the shop. He maintains a dirtpile for casual shooting, and he met me there and popped a few caps himself. He brought his grandpa's Colt Woodsman out and I know how well the kids shoots it. I was prepared to eat humble pie, if I didn't shoot well.
I shot 13, 12, and 13 at a steel plate and it was a regular noisemaker. I was shooting federal 115 fmj. For my last mag the kid brought out a piece of scrap sheetrock and scorched a black circle on it with a propane torch. The black circle was about 3" across, and all 12 would have been in the black, except I was centered on the bottom edge with half the group hanging there in the white.
Brain dead move, but I left home with only the fmj ammo. I know 50 rounds isn't much of a trial for a carry pistol, but if I coulda proved a couple of mags loaded with carry ammo, i'da probably put it in my belt and carried it.
The nephew did shoot a couple of mags out of the Sig. He did about as well as I did, considering he seldom shoots centerfire or striker fired. Young eyes and hands are great things.
12 rounds vs 7 in the LC9S. The P365X is more compact, but felt about half again as heavy when loaded. In a CYA kydex IWB it's a bit more comfortable to carry than the LC9S with the same style holster.
12 rounds vs 7 in the LC9S. The P365X is more compact, but felt about half again as heavy when loaded. In a CYA kydex IWB it's a bit more comfortable to carry than the LC9S with the same style holster.
They sure make the process of getting that free stuff complicated and drawn out. When Springfield does it, it's a simple card that comes in the box that you fill out and send in.
12 rounds vs 7 in the LC9S. The P365X is more compact, but felt about half again as heavy when loaded. In a CYA kydex IWB it's a bit more comfortable to carry than the LC9S with the same style holster.
FWIW I went to the range this afternoon for a while. The standout ammo, for accuracy so far, is the federal 115 FMJ
Tried 4 different carry type loads
The Underwood 90 gr defenders were so-so for accuracy
Hornady critical pitical 115 gr shot like doggy-do, or a shotgun
Sig 124 gr V-Crpwn was the obvious winner for accuracy amongst carry loads. Almost as good as the federal FMJ stuff
Federal 124 gr Punch ammo put only 3 of 12 on paper.
Was shooting at notebook sheets with a 2.5" shoot-n-c. Had one really good target with the FMJ. 8 in the shoot-n-c with 4 close to it. I'm a bit inconsistent with it, though. Had several groups that wandered low and left like everybody has seen. I usually cure this with more finger on the trigger. And that helped some today, but I'm gonna have to figure out the grip.
I now carry a 365XL because it came out as the most reasonable when you plug in all the factors i deemed important and based on recommendations from a few of you. The gun fits my hand well, it holds a reasonable amount of rounds and in a caliber that bullet technology has now made it acceptable for self-defense. Never been involved in a gun fight and I don't want to be, but there are literally REAMS of data out there validating all kinds of factors.
The Glock 19 is about as good as it gets, but the 365 is a LOT easier to carry and conceal and round count is more than adequate when you consider statistical data on guns used for self defense (not gunfights by LEOs) the situation is settled with five rounds or LESS. Sure more is always better, I remember during the Gulf War aircrews were loading up their survival gear (Browning Hi-Powers were the "de rigueur"weapon of the day but I carried a 1911) with multiple magazines, combat knives, etc., in the hopes of "trading lead" with a truck full of Iraqui soldiers with AKs bearing down in your position. "That is the fight you get" and unless the RESCAP A-10s, gunships and extraction teams were overhead, that Browning was as useless at tits on a boar hog. For the everyday citizen like most of us are, personal choice, based on one's risk assessment works for me,but after reading some comments, the only thing that would satisfy some of you guys are belt-fed, crew served weaponry.
I think that Mackay is correct in his assertion that better armed is generally better. But I think that he misses the point that a lot of guys work in an environment where carry of any weapon at all is strictly prohibited. If they do decide to carry, they gotta weigh the potential of losing their employment, if caught doing so. And in some cases, some places, they might even lose their freedom for being armed.
And this is a real thing. I know a guy personally who worked in such a place. Company man, on the executive team. In the years before Illinois passed their concealed carry law, he commonly carried a pocket .380. A talisman, in Mackay's estimation. He used that talisman to shoot one of 3 armed attackers who accosted him while he was out of the office at lunch time. The fight ended when he shot, but his battles had just begun.
He was never charged with unlawful carry. The only criminal charges he ever faced were misdemeanors. But the company he worked for decided that his services were no longer required. He fought his termination in court and won. But his time there, and his success with them was clearly a thing of the past. Today he raises funds far various non-profits, and makes more money than when he was on the "A" Team. He eventually was awarded his concealed carry permit, but had to go through the appeals process to get it.
As to talisman guns, almost every case of self defense I hear of, where I here anything about the weapon used, involves them. I think Mackay is wrong on that point. Guys choose to carry what they are able to, in order to give themselves a chance to influence what happens around them when things turn [bleep].
Been that way forever...
Read the original post.
The OP's topic was never about non permissive environments and getting caught where you are not legally allowed to carry.
It was about a 9mm carry gun that is never a wrong choice for legal concealed carry.
FWIW I went to the range this afternoon for a while. The standout ammo, for accuracy so far, is the federal 115 FMJ
Tried 4 different carry type loads
The Underwood 90 gr defenders were so-so for accuracy
Hornady critical pitical 115 gr shot like doggy-do, or a shotgun
Sig 124 gr V-Crpwn was the obvious winner for accuracy amongst carry loads. Almost as good as the federal FMJ stuff
Federal 124 gr Punch ammo put only 3 of 12 on paper.
Was shooting at notebook sheets with a 2.5" shoot-n-c. Had one really good target with the FMJ. 8 in the shoot-n-c with 4 close to it. I'm a bit inconsistent with it, though. Had several groups that wandered low and left like everybody has seen. I usually cure this with more finger on the trigger. And that helped some today, but I'm gonna have to figure out the grip.
Mine shoots everything well from 115 grain FMJ to hollow point front 124 to 147 as well as hard cast
As to talisman guns, almost every case of self defense I hear of, where I here anything about the weapon used, involves them. I think Mackay is wrong on that point. Guys choose to carry what they are able to, in order to give themselves a chance to influence what happens around them when things turn [bleep].
Been that way forever...
Well put.
Mackay is a cop and has a Cop's mindset. But Cop's are about 2 per thousand population, or 0.2%. Everyone else is not a cop and has to go about the world NOT A COP.
Just my opinion of course.
Wrong.
DLA,
Don't assume to know my mindset as obviously you are wrong. I retired from LE some time ago. Your standard schtick has always been when you have been talking out of your butt about things you literally have no experience in and are just guessing about is to say "But but I am not in the cop business, or your a cop, and to make other remarks" That has been your standard reply for years if you don't agree with something in order to discredit. I find this pretty ironic since you now say you worked as a jailer for a decade.
Since a jailer is an entry level position and you never managed to promote out of the jail and onto the road as a patrol deputy, despite being there 10 years, this would explain your vitriolic and nasty attitude toward the LE here. If you behaved anything like you do here, at the jail it is no wonder they refused to let you promote and did not want you on the road.
The screw ups and people with poor dispositions are usually put in the jail if they have not done enough to be fired (yet). The fact that you spent 10 years in an entry level position is absolutely no surprise.
That said, my comments had literally NOTHING to do with police work . The topic was lawful concealed carry choices. With that in mind, the Glock 19 is the one gun that can always be looked at as never a bad choice. Plain and simple. There is a reason it has been sold by the literal millions and remains incredibly popular. It is a gold standard. There are some that may be smaller or larger, and serve some specific role better, but few can do so many roles as adequately as a general purpose piece like the G19.
Jumping in here late, but the G19 is the ubiquitous choice for sure and is almost never wrong. I’ve never gotten along with the grip size as well as the G17, so it would be my choice.
Regarding small guns, I was shocked when I shot the IDPA classifier twice in a row and scored nearly identical with a G17 and a first gen Shield. I doubt the results would have been even close to the same had I used something smaller like an LCP.
The IDPA classifier is a pretty decent way to sort out how you are doing and it provides a useful benchmark to compare guns and gear with. It doesn’t stress capacity, otherwise the shield would have lagged pretty far behind.
FWIW I went to the range this afternoon for a while. The standout ammo, for accuracy so far, is the federal 115 FMJ
Tried 4 different carry type loads
The Underwood 90 gr defenders were so-so for accuracy
Hornady critical pitical 115 gr shot like doggy-do, or a shotgun
Sig 124 gr V-Crpwn was the obvious winner for accuracy amongst carry loads. Almost as good as the federal FMJ stuff
Federal 124 gr Punch ammo put only 3 of 12 on paper.
Was shooting at notebook sheets with a 2.5" shoot-n-c. Had one really good target with the FMJ. 8 in the shoot-n-c with 4 close to it. I'm a bit inconsistent with it, though. Had several groups that wandered low and left like everybody has seen. I usually cure this with more finger on the trigger. And that helped some today, but I'm gonna have to figure out the grip.
Mine shoots everything well from 115 grain FMJ to hollow point front 124 to 147 as well as hard cast
I do not have nightmares (aka Boomer dreams) of engaging mass shooters or terrorists with a handgun. I prefer my small 100% reliable handgun because in extremely dangerous situations I can bag carry it. This is when one does not have time to draw gun from concealment.
I do not have nightmares (aka Boomer dreams) of engaging mass shooters or terrorists with a handgun. I prefer my small 100% reliable handgun because in extremely dangerous situations I can bag carry it. This is when one does not have time to draw gun from concealment.
I do not have nightmares (aka Boomer dreams) of engaging mass shooters or terrorists with a handgun. I prefer my small 100% reliable handgun because in extremely dangerous situations I can bag carry it. This is when one does not have time to draw gun from concealment.
The only thing you pack is a vagina.
LOL
Just STFU.
I give you advise, if you get into dangerous situation at close range learn how to fake ♥️ attack or seizure. Chances are better then average they will take pity on you and will not shoot your stupid ass. As you gasp for air mumble to call for an ambulance, this will probably shock them enough not to 🤕 you. This is defense tactic 101 when someone is already pointing a gun at you. In this case not even bag carry will be fast enough.
I do not have nightmares (aka Boomer dreams) of engaging mass shooters or terrorists with a handgun. I prefer my small 100% reliable handgun because in extremely dangerous situations I can bag carry it. This is when one does not have time to draw gun from concealment.
The only thing you pack is a vagina.
LOL
Just STFU.
I give you advise, if you get into dangerous situation at close range learn how to fake ♥️ attack or seizure. Chances are better then average they will take pity on you and will not shoot your stupid ass. As you gasp for air mumble to call for an ambulance, this will probably shock them enough not to 🤕 you. This is defense tactic 101 when someone is already pointing a gun at you. In this case not even bag carry will be fast enough.
I do not have nightmares (aka Boomer dreams) of engaging mass shooters or terrorists with a handgun. I prefer my small 100% reliable handgun because in extremely dangerous situations I can bag carry it. This is when one does not have time to draw gun from concealment.
The only thing you pack is a vagina.
LOL
Just STFU.
I give you advise, if you get into dangerous situation at close range learn how to fake ♥️ attack or seizure. Chances are better then average they will take pity on you and will not shoot your stupid ass. As you gasp for air mumble to call for an ambulance, this will probably shock them enough not to 🤕 you. This is defense tactic 101 when someone is already pointing a gun at you. In this case not even bag carry will be fast enough.
You actually posted this dribble. WOW +P+ WOW!
Oops, I forgot. Pleading for life is an alternative.
It's fuuuking Masar Cardonas/ slavek/ glockdoofus/ Crappy Hamster/ elkymasarnutts and all the other tard sockpuppets he runs on here. Loser can't get over that Bin restricted his Masar account to one post every 6 months, and then others. Most recently his Tyler what the fuuuk ever one...
Soooooo much time and effort he put into his Crappy Hamster sockpuppet to have its account fuuuked up by Bin also. Like I said.... Long Game you dumbazz.... Hey??? How are the mental health therapy sessions going for Glockdoofus???
Fuuuking retard Masar Cardonas/ glockdoofus/ Slavek sent me this stupid schit.
Get a life you pathetic fuuuk outside of your sockpuppet fantasy world you live in that you think is working for you to get back at everyone on here. How many sockpuppet accounts since your Masar one got 86,d have you created in your demented little world. How many of them have I and others fuuuked up for you on here? A bunch.......👍👍🤣🤣🤣 It is funny as Fuuuuk what Bin did to your Crappy Hamster account and several others as of late. Obviously you are lurking and see what I post.
You consistent pathetic fuuuking loser.... 🖕🖕🖕🤣🤣🤣🤣🤗🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤗🤗🤗
Dr. Demento junior sent me another PM. 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
Ain't even worth putting up.
To sum it up..
Yes I agree...
You are one SORRY azz POS sockpuppet running sick in the head mutha fugga....
🖕🖕🖕🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Oh,,, and fret about it all and what has gone down as of late for you Masar Cardonas wondering what you can spin even more.
Fuuuking loser.... I own you obviously.... Just like all your other sockpuppets I have had hand in fuuuuking up. Stupidest thing you ever did was engage me. And you suck at running sockpuppets....
All I have to do is fuuuk with you anytime when I choose too and it eats at your craw. Like a Cat playing with a mouse to entertain itself until the game gets old and then a quick bite to snap the neck out of boredom and then walks away to find another. That's what I have done to several of your sockpuppets as of late. How has it worked out for you having restricted privileges on those accounts???
I buy a glock grow bored with it. Sell it. Buy another brand Grow bored with it
Go buy another glock.
It's a viscous cycle always going back to a glock.😄😄😄 But it has also given me alot of familiarity with other brands. I would probably have about 30 or 35 handguns if I held onto them. I don't have emotional attachments to firearms. Got 9 " core" group guns. They all have a purpose from tree rats to mooks. Anything bought outside of that core group is to be shot and contemplated, if boredom or practicality comes into it. It gets sold.
Always return to a Glock. Have owned alot of Glocks. 1st was a new 1988 gen 1 17.
You all have fun down here with the Masar Cardonas sockpuppets Glockdoofus and Slavek...
You guys forum retard who hasn't posted since mid july. Whom I hammered on this thread recently. So obviously he lurks on your forum or watches it with one of his various sockpuppets.
Has been sending me PM,s since then as Glockdoofus..
In the mornings. In the evenings.
Check box Deleted selected unread.. Fuuuking tard.. In his head bad....... 🤣🤣🤣🤣
He did the same stooopid schit when I hammered him about his incredible 50 yd off hand shooting big bore revolver tgts he was posting on here couple yrs ago. The ones with heavy smudge around bullet holes and the ones with embedded powder residue on the paper..
Ones that some people actually believed he shot... How can some be that gullible to not notice that schit.... Which I find hilarious also, that some would actually fall for Masar Cardonas/ Glockdoofus/Slavek sockpuppet on this forum.
Then he went into his mental therapy session postings after that a couple yrs ago.
Poor little fella been damaged goods ever since he got his chops busted about Tgt pics he mined off the web.
Dr. Demento junior sent me another PM. 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
Ain't even worth putting up.
To sum it up..
Yes I agree...
You are one SORRY azz POS sockpuppet running sick in the head mutha fugga....
🖕🖕🖕🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Oh,,, and fret about it all and what has gone down as of late for you Masar Cardonas wondering what you can spin even more.
Fuuuking loser.... I own you obviously.... Just like all your other sockpuppets I have had hand in fuuuuking up. Stupidest thing you ever did was engage me. And you suck at running sockpuppets....
All I have to do is fuuuk with you anytime when I choose too and it eats at your craw. Like a Cat playing with a mouse to entertain itself until the game gets old and then a quick bite to snap the neck out of boredom and then walks away to find another. That's what I have done to several of your sockpuppets as of late. How has it worked out for you having restricted privileges on those accounts???
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
You’d think the stupid Diaper Wearing SOB would get tired of all the beatdowns he’s suffered here on the Fire. 🤪
Guess he’s just not that smart. Got dropped on his pointy little head too many times as a child. Probably suffers from Fetal Alcohol Syndrome and ADHD. And brain damage from eating too many paint chips from the walls of Section 8 Housing. Doesn’t own any real guns. Just a Daisy Red Ryder BB gun and his airsoft collection. 🤪😂🤣😆
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣........? 🍷🥃🥂.......🥴?This is not normal behavior for an adult. Have you considered professional help?
So fuuuking stupid he thinks no one thinks it is him posting as Slavek now in response to what I posted.
Masar Cadonas/ Slavek/ glockdoofus/ CrappyHamster/ elkymasarnutts/ Tyler what the [bleep] ever/ diaper boy and what the fuuuk ever else.
What a pathetic life you have. And you suck at computers and sockpuppets and you been doing it since what age 12 or some schitt and your now in your mid 30,s...
Oops, I forgot that 9x19 FMJ ammo has tax of $.97 per box of 50. So, if they gave you that life saving 10% discount you would still pay > for ammo that would arrive at your doorstep. I used 9mm Luger as an example because someone with "big" 🧠 like yourself could not own anything else.
Oops, I forgot that 9x19 FMJ ammo has tax of $.97 per box of 50. So, if they gave you that life saving 10% discount you would still pay > for ammo that would arrive at your doorstep. I used 9mm Luger as an example because someone with "big" 🧠 like yourself could not own anything else.
Scrambling to deflect your stupidity.
Please quote the state and that tax rate for that state and the price of said ammo.
Got a link to back up the ad lib bullschit spewing out of your piehole??
I bet ya dont....
I know what 97 cents of tax in my state would translate into the retail price equivalent in my state.
Please oh please you stoopid fuuuk who is just digging a deeper hole for himself.
Please show me were I can find a box of 50 9mm for that price. Online Retail
Anywhere in the USA or on this planet.
And my Tn has a 9.7ish sales tax rate.
You do the reverse math you fuuuuking pinhead and eat what your stoopid azz just posted .
Now remember zippy other state tax rates are more or less So you better schit a retail price with a link that is absouloutly incredible cause their are schit loads of people who would love to buy a box of 50 9mm with your fuuuking bullschit drunken math...
No more attention for you... Till I decide.... The only attention you get is negitive. But hey it's still attention for you and you crave it. Moron...... 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I do not have nightmares (aka Boomer dreams) of engaging mass shooters or terrorists with a handgun. I prefer my small 100% reliable handgun because in extremely dangerous situations I can bag carry it. This is when one does not have time to draw gun from concealment.
The only thing you pack is a vagina.
LOL
Just STFU.
I give you advise, if you get into dangerous situation at close range learn how to fake ♥️ attack or seizure. Chances are better then average they will take pity on you and will not shoot your stupid ass. As you gasp for air mumble to call for an ambulance, this will probably shock them enough not to 🤕 you. This is defense tactic 101 when someone is already pointing a gun at you. In this case not even bag carry will be fast enough.
i realize it's early, but I am going to go out on a limb and say that's the dumbest phugging thing I am going to read today
" Slavek" Where are the 2 links to those smoking hot 9mm ammo deals?
You know ..... The one for <16 bucks a box online to my door.
And the other one with your drunken math tax rate and calculation of .97 cents of tax on it retail price for a box of 50 that you said I pay on it. Which any 3rd grader could simply figure out on a written math problem...
Which per the Tn sales tax rate of 9.7% would work out to around 9.59 to 9.70 ish per box of 50. Am I missing this smoking deal you are aware of??? Has it been right under my nose and I have never seen it. Please enlighten me.. Please....
We need those 2 links man!!!
Buncha guys down here in the handgun forums would love to pay 16 a box from a online retailer to their door for 9mm ammo.
Let alone a little over 10 bucks a box per your drunken math running piehole.
Please provide those 2 links. You would be doing a bunch of us a solid👍👍👍👍
I do not have nightmares (aka Boomer dreams) of engaging mass shooters or terrorists with a handgun. I prefer my small 100% reliable handgun because in extremely dangerous situations I can bag carry it. This is when one does not have time to draw gun from concealment.
The only thing you pack is a vagina.
LOL
Just STFU.
I give you advise, if you get into dangerous situation at close range learn how to fake ♥️ attack or seizure. Chances are better then average they will take pity on you and will not shoot your stupid ass. As you gasp for air mumble to call for an ambulance, this will probably shock them enough not to 🤕 you. This is defense tactic 101 when someone is already pointing a gun at you. In this case not even bag carry will be fast enough.
i realize it's early, but I am going to go out on a limb and say that's the dumbest phugging thing I am going to read today
Lol!!! Give "Slavek" some time, the day is young and he will probably exceed that in the sheer stooooopidity of what he will post today.
I am in your head MasarCardonas/Glockdoofus/ Slavek... Is Crappy Hamster gonna make a sunday sermon thread today Can we get a Anderson link in it also?????
Slavek/maser can't legally own a gun. He comes on here and fantasizes about what a subject matter expert he is based on all the reading he does about the forbidden fruit.
Slavek/maser can't legally own a gun. He comes on here and fantasizes about what a subject matter expert he is based on all the reading he does about the forbidden fruit.
....😴
Going back to original topic. There are two worthy opponents: G43x MOS and SiG 365x Macro. The only downside to SiG is compensated barrel which will probably increase muzzle flash in low light conditions. It should come down to which you shoot better with.
Slavek/maser can't legally own a gun. He comes on here and fantasizes about what a subject matter expert he is based on all the reading he does about the forbidden fruit.
....😴
Going back to original topic. There are two worthy opponents: G43x MOS and SiG 365x Macro. The only downside to SiG is compensated barrel which will probably increase muzzle flash in low light conditions. It should come down to which you shoot better with.
keep pointing out the fact you don't shoot at all and are generally stupid
And that account got smoked also... Alla that work gone to schitt. Along with his others since late june. Like Crappy Hamster for one and about 4 or 5 others..
🤣🤣🤣 Dumbfuuuuk Masar Cardonas sockpuppet glockdoofus has sent 2 pms since my posting on this again. Gee how coincidental .. Delete unread ad nasuem.
Have a good one handgun forum dudes. You got Masars Cardonas nailed to a T down here. 👍🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Many tend to choose handguns that are really Talismans. In other words, they are relying on hope as a strategy.
Yeah,...well, maybe. But a lot of work has gone into small .380s. A .25 or a .32 might be considered a talisman. But I carry a Ruger LCP Max loaded up with 11 rounds of hardcast 100 grain flat points at about 950 fps. It has real sights, a "Glockish" trigger and it's no big trick to deliver rounds at center of mass at 50' with it.
All handguns are a compromise. But a 100 grain hardcast bullet doing 950 is going in the front and coming out the back regardless of the delivery system involved.
Basically, a .380 is the 21st century ballistic equivalent of a .36 Navy Colt if you can use it effectively.
I consider it a much better fighting tool than the snub J frame .38s that people have been packing for years.
Many tend to choose handguns that are really Talismans. In other words, they are relying on hope as a strategy.
Yeah,...well, maybe. But a lot of work has gone into small .380s. A .25 or a .32 might be considered a talisman. But I carry a Ruger LCP Max loaded up with 11 rounds of hardcast 100 grain flat points at about 950 fps. It has real sights, a "Glockish" trigger and it's no big trick to deliver rounds at center of mass at 50' with it.
All handguns are a compromise.n But a 100 grain hardcast bullet doing 950 is going in the front and coming out the back regardless of the delivery system involved.
Basically, a .380 is the 21st century ballistic equivalent of a .36 Navy Colt if you can use it effectively.
I consider it a much better fighting tool than the snub J frame .38s that people have been packing for years.
...you can do the same in a J frame with a bullet that's 50% heavier and higher sectional density...how would your LCP be better, other than 5 extra shots to piss off your assailant a little more?
Many tend to choose handguns that are really Talismans. In other words, they are relying on hope as a strategy.
Yeah,...well, maybe. But a lot of work has gone into small .380s. A .25 or a .32 might be considered a talisman. But I carry a Ruger LCP Max loaded up with 11 rounds of hardcast 100 grain flat points at about 950 fps. It has real sights, a "Glockish" trigger and it's no big trick to deliver rounds at center of mass at 50' with it.
All handguns are a compromise.n But a 100 grain hardcast bullet doing 950 is going in the front and coming out the back regardless of the delivery system involved.
Basically, a .380 is the 21st century ballistic equivalent of a .36 Navy Colt if you can use it effectively.
I consider it a much better fighting tool than the snub J frame .38s that people have been packing for years.
...you can do the same in a J frame with a bullet that's 50% heavier and higher sectional density...how would your LCP be better, other than 5 extra shots to piss off your assailant a little more?
More shots on target quicker. Sectional density contributes nothing once full penetration capability has been reached.
158 grain bullet at 800 fps,....100 grain bullet at 950. The average trash bag isn't going to know the difference.
,...and most people will be able to shoot an LCP Max much better than they can a snub .38.
"Notice the below velocities recorded from my personal 380 auto pistols. These are real-world guns, and thus the speeds are realistic and not exaggerated speeds produced from laboratory test barrels. What you see with Buffalo Bore Ammo, is truly what you get in the "real world," where it matters. You can expect 20+ inches of straight-line penetration in flesh and bone with this load. If you are worried about over penetration with this load, DON'T! You chose to carry a tiny under-powered 380 auto pistol, and the trade-off is that you are now going to have to stay alive with that pistol and over penetration will be the least of your worries if you end up needing this gun to save yourself or your family.
Many tend to choose handguns that are really Talismans. In other words, they are relying on hope as a strategy.
Yeah,...well, maybe. But a lot of work has gone into small .380s. A .25 or a .32 might be considered a talisman. But I carry a Ruger LCP Max loaded up with 11 rounds of hardcast 100 grain flat points at about 950 fps. It has real sights, a "Glockish" trigger and it's no big trick to deliver rounds at center of mass at 50' with it.
All handguns are a compromise.n But a 100 grain hardcast bullet doing 950 is going in the front and coming out the back regardless of the delivery system involved.
Basically, a .380 is the 21st century ballistic equivalent of a .36 Navy Colt if you can use it effectively.
I consider it a much better fighting tool than the snub J frame .38s that people have been packing for years.
...you can do the same in a J frame with a bullet that's 50% heavier and higher sectional density...how would your LCP be better, other than 5 extra shots to piss off your assailant a little more?
More shots on target quicker. Sectional density contributes nothing once full penetration capability has been reached.
158 grain bullet at 800 fps,....100 grain bullet at 950. The average trash bag isn't going to know the difference.
,...and most people will be able to shoot an LCP Max much better than they can a snub .38.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/CQT4v4y.jpg)
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/5wvHI5r.jpg)
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/JFOmZKn.jpg)
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/qACiJth.jpg)
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/0kRQrrA.jpg)
).![[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]](https://i.postimg.cc/c1zwVkzT/Taurus.jpg)
![[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]](https://i.postimg.cc/R0gzzL0W/IMG-0851-2.jpg)
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/ohzJQFP.gif)
![[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]](https://i.ibb.co/k4Z7nf2/122-EB5-E2-FB90-4-E66-B7-A2-2-BE889-FD8436.jpg)
. The topic was lawful concealed carry choices. With that in mind, the Glock 19 is the one gun that can always be looked at as never a bad choice. Plain and simple. There is a reason it has been sold by the literal millions and remains incredibly popular. It is a gold standard. There are some that may be smaller or larger, and serve some specific role better, but few can do so many roles as adequately as a general purpose piece like the G19.
![[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]](https://i.postimg.cc/tCD0TQzY/Screenshot-20220829-144425-Chrome.jpg)