I tried some from Buffalo Bore and my S&W 57 groups them well. I don't have any load data on file so does anybody have any suggestions for me? Also what kind of velocities may I expect. Thanks in advance. J

What powder do you want to use?

I have Bullseye, 2400 & Blue Dot. Also some HS-6? I've used the first two with 210 and 220 cast bullets before.

No Bullyseye....way to fast for that heavy a bullet.

2400...17.0

HS-6....10.0

These are starting loads off of LoadData.com

Bob

I ran some heavy bullet tests in the 41 mag 20 years ago. I used 16 grains of 2400 with that bullet for 1200 fps out of a 6.5 inch Ruger Blackhawk. My load data indicates it gave excellent accuracy. I liked the bullet so well I had LBT make a mold for that bullet.

I ended up using H110 as my heavy bullet powder in the 41 magnum but would be happy with 2400 if that's what I had. Sadly, I have not seen any 2400 in these parts for three years. I have plenty of H110 but am almost out of 2400.

Quickload show 1221 fps from a 6 inch barrel with 13 grains of Blue Dot and that bullet for a pressure of 33,025. With 15 grains of 2400 it shows 1255 and 33,954. With 10.5 grains of HS-6 QL shows 1154 fps and 32,815. Using 7.5 grains of Bullseye nets 1112 fps and 32,914 according to QL.

Yeah, I can't imagine H110/296 not being THE powder for that.

W296/H110 was always my choice for heavies in the .41 Mag.

My standard load was Cast Performance 250gr WFN over 21.0grs of W296 lit by a CCI 300. As I recall that was the suggested starting load from Cast Performance. The accuracy was great.

Speaking of Blue Dot in the .41 magnum, didn't Alliant issue a warning several years ago telling reloaders to NOT use Blue Dot in any .41 Magnum loads.

Anyone heard any differently lately??

RJM, I know you do a lot of testing of various .41 Magnum loads. What do you think about Alliant Blue Dot in .41 Magnum?

I have a pound of Blue Dot I'd like to use in my S&W 57 and Marlin 1894S .41 Magnum ... unless it is unsafe.

L.W.

There are so many powders that are better than Blue Dot I see no reason to use it. It was a favorite of Ken Waters', and features prominently in his "Pet Loads" columns on revolver rounds, but many newer powders produce the same performance without any of the downsides of Blue Dot.

In the 41 Magnum, for heavy hunting loads, I would go with H110/W296. If you don't have that, 2400 will work but does best with standard pistol primers. For mid-range loads HS-6 is an excellent powder.

Out of Hodgdon's manual for a 265 WLNGC in a 41 magnum:
H110/296: Start 19.5gr 1410fps, Max 20.8gr 1540 fps.

This is a Godsend. THX everyone.

That or Lil'Gun....

For slow powder I use 4227 exclusively. I don't care about the last 20 fps but do like that's I can load max or a fair bit below safely with great accuracy.

Thanks all for the inputs.

18 grains of H110. My deer load.

And OF COURSE, no 110 to be had anywhere

H-110/296 is the same powder.


How fast do you want to run them? I tried the 265's in my 41 and at 1260 FPS they shot high even with the rear sight adjusted as low as it would go. I settled on a wide meplat 230 grain at about 1350 fps.

I guess I should chrono these Buffalo Bore and see. I had no problems w a 50 yard zero with them or 220gr SWC har cast. I ran those at 1350. Nobody has 296 either. I swear, this reloading crap is becoming tedious.

Never have been a big fan of Blue Dot. Bought an 8# can about 25 years ago and still trying to use it up. Just recently did load up a bunch of lighter weight cast boolits up just to get rid of the powder until Unique and H110/296 get back in stock.

From what I have read it is reverse temperature sensitive...the colder it get the higher the pressure gets. It used to be THE powder for .38 Super which is what I bought it for. But I got much better velocities out of SR4756 and Unique than BD.

Easy recipe for H110/296 regardless of bullet...fill case till the powder touches the bottom of the bullet just to hold the powder in place. Use a Winchester LP or any Magnum LP primer and shoot. Gets the highest safe velocity and best SD of all loads. I would also like to get hold of some Ramshot Enforcer as it looks pretty good also.

Started this over on the CastBoolit Forums and it is now a sticky...

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?276144-41-magnum-special-data-center

I don't usually max out my S&W guns...they will take the heat when using H110/296 but if you push any of the faster powders hard you get case sticking and or bulging long before a Ruger. I can use the same H110/296 loads in the Smiths as the Rugers...it seems to have a much longer pressure curve...and bright muzzle flash...

And I also have had the same problem with not enough front sight blade when using bullets over 230 grains in a Smith. 200-230 is the weight bullets I usually use in the Smiths..

Bob

I have Unique on hand.

Lohmans is showing H110 and W296 in stock.

http://www.lohmanarms.com/reloading_gun_powder_for_sale_in_stock_s/2091.htm

I would call first to verify.

Lohman's is NOTORIOUS for saying they have stuff in stock, then back order. When I get to the pay section, you get a notice saying IF we have it, we'll send it otherwise we'll send you an email when it comes in. Thanks anyway!

As of 8/12, these guys had 296

10Ring.com
www.10ring.com
281-894-7464

local shop that sells a lot of reloading supplies and if they say they have it, they do.

I have a fair amount of Lil'Gun and 296 on hand, but I am interested in trying Accurate #9 in some of the magnum loads.

This^^^^^^ should be a sticky here as it is SPOT ON!

' until Unique and H110/296 get back in stock.'

So how about Unique then? I have some of that/

It will work, no doubt.

Can you recommend a starting load? I can't find anything got that heavy of a bullet weight/

Let me do some research since I have never used unique in the 41 mag.

Jorge,

My gut says 7.0 grains and working up SLOWLY in about .2 grain increments, but let me see what I can find.

I thought 7 would work as well, but the 265 takes up a lot of case capacity and a fast powder like unique can get to high pressure very quickly.

Jorge,

No Unique here, but this should give you some starting loads for other powders and if you're good with a loading manual, you should be able to get an idea on a starting load for Unique as comparative.

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol

Yep, thus the gut. The 210s are showing starting loads around 9.5 grains. Closest I can get is the Lyman 3rd Edition Cast Bullet Handbook with a #410426 240 grain .410" RN Linotype. Starting load with Unique is 6.9 grains for 879 fps and 18,200 CUP. Max load on that one is 10.0 grains at 1147 fps and 36,900 CUP.

Jorge, try starting at 6.5 grains being VERY careful and work up SLOW. Anywhere near 9.0 grains should be considered top end and I doubt I'd want to go much beyond that or 1100 fps, whichever comes first.

Thanks very much to both you guys. I'm going to start with what I have here once the bullets arrive and let you guy know. I will experiment with all the powders mentioned. From what I read here, these two seem the most promising w the powders I have:

2400...17.0

HS-6....10.0

I'd not discount Lil'Gun or H110, either.

I'd skip the Lill'gun

H-110 is apparently the choice of most here, but everyone appears to be out.

After doing some research and talking with a very knowledgable individual. I believe you should start at 6 grains of unique and work up to 100 fps and call it good.

I really like 2400 for loads like this one, and second the motion of 17 grains of it. It has a smooth pressure curve, lights easily (no need for magnum primers), should be close to ideal. I have obtained my best accuracy in .357, .41 and .44 Magnums with stout loads of 2400, and I've been using it in these calibers for over 30 years.

It does not like to be downloaded, however, so avoid reduced loads of it.

Unique is pretty fast for such a heavy bullet, but with care I'm sure it can be loaded safely.

2400 or HS 6 for now.

Please expand on that if you would. Hamilton Bowen recommended LG as the powder to use in my 45 LC. Or, is your comment just in regard to the 41?

This is what Bob Baker of Freedom Arms has to say about Lill,gun.


"We have seen numerous barrels damaged by using Lil'Gun. According to customers, some had as few as 30 rounds using Lil Gun through them, some had several hundred. Before we figured out what was happening one customer had sent his gun in for a new barrel. Then 600 rounds later it came back for another new barrel.

A couple years ago we did a test with a M83, .357 Mag. using Hornady 180 gr. bullets. We loaded 50 rds. of three different loads. One was a heavy H-110 load and the other two both used Lil Gun in different quantities.

We fired the H-110 loads first, then cut off the threaded end of the barrel. Rethreaded the barrel and shot one of the Lil Gun loads then rethreaded the barrel and shot the last Lil Gun load.

We found even the light load of Lil Gun caused the gun to get extremely hot. The heavy Lil Gun load had the gun so hot the only place we could touch the gun was on the grips and they were very hot.

Under magnification the surface appeared to have heated to a point of flowing using the Lil Gun loads and the heavy load was worse than the light load. This is probably due to Lil Gun having about 10% more nitro glycerin in it than H-110."

Unique....I run 8.0 with everything jacketed or cast I have tried but don't think I have run any bullet over 230 grains with it. It makes a great light to mid-range powder but I don't really like pushing the upper end. It is pretty fast burning and if you push it in a Smith the cases start to bind rear quick. 8.0 with a 200-230 will run 950 fps from a 4" barrel. I have seen people using up to 10.0 but once up into the 1200s much prefer SR4756..

I also looked at Lill'Gun as it is supposed to out run H110/296...but I have also read some comments that it starts to get squirrelly when pushed hard...which I have never seen H110 do...even compressed.

Bob

Well, that's certainly disconcerting as I've new 3 lb can of the stuff. And it's strange too as HB told me they've replaced H-110 in their big caliber loads with it. This was in the last two years or so. You'd also think with the volume of work Bowen does he'd have seen this too.

Well, I don't shoot high volume (though the thirty rounds referenced above is hardly high volume) nor do I shoot red-line loads. Guess I'll continue on and watch for accuracy issues. I certainly haven't ever noticed that my RRH got that hot.

I might contact HB about this.

Thanks much for that reference.

I'm having good results with Alliant 300mp since H110/W296 has been scarce. It is available from more than a few sources currently and probably is worth a try in .41 mag.

It is reported to be a hair slower than H110/W296 and that is so far consistent with my experience. In heavy .45 Colt (30ksi) and near Casull .45 Colt loads in my Bowen .45 colt it gives similar performance to W296 within a grain using 325 gr. LFN's & 360 gr. LFN's. Likewise in .44 magnum its also within a grain of the loads where I use W296 and 300 gr. WFN's.

RJM, thanks for the info on Blue Dot. For .41 Magnum I've been using 2400, H110, and Unique for years, but thought I'd give the one pound of Blue Dot a try in my .41 Mag. I did not know if the "Don't use Blue Dot in .41 mag," from Alliant still existed. I got no response from Alliant.

Maybe I'll give it a try in my Ruger NMBH .45 Colt and 255 grains SWC cast bullets.

L.W.

H110 supposedly created the demise of the Ruger Maximum and Dan Wesson sending two barrels with each 357 Max they made. Yes, over time and rounds, even H110 will erode a forcing cone. See the 22 Remington Jet.
Its kinda been the nature of slow burning magnum pistol powders.

Odd thing is, I've a Colt Python and a King Cobra here that have each digested 1,000 or more 17 gr./180 gr loads loaded with Lil'Gun.
A DW 357 Max eats 21 grs, with the same bullet; none of which are jacketed. The round count for that "victim" is around 500.


Under a Hawkeye Borescope, I haven't noticed any flowing of metal or any more than normal erosion to date. Even the top strap of the Maximum seems to be holding up just fine, which to me would be more noticeable to the average shooter's bare eyes than would forcing cone or barrel erosion.

I noticed Baker threw the "30 round" comment under the requisite "customer" bus...

As so far as heat, I'll do a test. But I've never experienced "hot grips", even with range sessions of 200 rounds.

Shoot 50 rounds as fast as you can load and fire them, like Bob Baker did and report back.

I fail to see the great advantage of Lil'gun over H-110/296.

Over at LoadData.com, which is part of HANDLOADER Magazine, they had removed all the Blue Dot loads for not only .41 Magnum but some .357 also. I then noticed that some of the recent .41 load data from Brian Pearce included Blue Dot. When I inquired I was told that there is a "new" Blue Dot and the loads have been approved...

Bob

Lil'gun is the cat's meow for the .500 S&W. I have shot a few hundred of 42gr loads in the Smith. No problems what so ever. I have always liked H110/296 in magnum loads,but in this case Lil'gun out performs. I would not be afraid to use it in other cartridges. It is good powder. As far as the nitroglycerin content, most of the most popular target powders have much more nitro in their formulations. They are shot at a much higher volume than magnum loads. I do not buy it.

BULLET WEIGHT440 GR. CPB LGC
ManufacturerHodgdon
PowderH110
Bullet Diameter.500"
C.O.L.2.025"
Starting Load
Grains34.0
Velocity (ft/s)1,509
Pressure40,700 PSI
Maximum Load
Grains38.0
Velocity (ft/s)1,654
Pressure49,900 PSI


440 GR. CPB LGC
ManufacturerHodgdon
PowderLil'Gun
Bullet Diameter.500"
C.O.L.2.025"
Starting Load
Grains30.0
Velocity (ft/s)1,483
Pressure40,200 PSI
Maximum Load
Grains35.0
Velocity (ft/s)1,653Pressure
50,500 PSI

Still don't see the suppiriority of Lil'gun over H-110/296

I use the Barnes 325gr XPB. That is the only bullet I want to use. My Notes (Real world testing in my gun). The Lil'gun out performs in all respects. Especially in accuracy. It also had less muzzle flash. That is important in a gun like mine with a ported barrel. I have more confidence in my own notes.

According to Hogdon Lil'gun will do about 51 fps more than H-110/296 with 325 grain bullets.

Lil'Gun has given excellent accuracy in a wide variety of guns, and small rifle cases like the Bee & Hornet.

one thing that nobody seems to comment on other than me with H110 or 296 is the very narrow spread in load amounts between minimum and maximum amounts. I have never liked that. I have shot very few real heavy .41magnum loads, heavy as to bullet weight, but something rjm said to me is unique seems to work for most normal operations. I have used that and 2400 for most of the stuff i do. This thread cost me 35bucks yesterday, I finally signed on to handloader's online load website, i think i can waste a lot of time on there.

Exactly.
There would be no .17 HMR or CCI Velocitors without Lil'Gun

According to Gibby, it is about 135 fps in his test weapon.

Scored some 110. So for my 265gr hardhats, what is a good load to match that Buffalo Bore @ 1350 and do I use mag primers?

Start at 19.5 grains H-110 and work up to about 21 grain

thanks! primer?

Magnum, your choice. I use Federal but any magnum primer should work The Winchester LP is suitable as well.

Thank you, sir

Good point, which is one thing to note when comparing Lil'Gun to H110.

Lil' Gun is used per Hodgdon in revolver loads ranging from 12,000 CUP level to 56,000 PSI. That's a wide spread, which I've commented to how much easier it is to ignite and reduce.

Lil'Gun also seems to be more at home in long, narrow powder columns. In the 357, data shows it getting 50-100 fps over H110/296 loads with 5,000 CUP less pressure.

In regard to your comment, H Bowen also remarked that you didn't have to run LG at full throttle loads for good ignition and burn as H-110 seemed to require and that it was also cleaner than H-110.

In not a handgun expert, but in setting up a RRH 45 C with him, those were his words to me.

I find H-110/296 to burn very clean with heavy bullets and full power charges.

I agree...I ditched the shot shell powders years ago and have been using nothing but H-110 in my 41 and 44 mags. 296 was also good giving excellent accuracy but seemed temp sensitive in extreme heat so I stayed with 110. I never have used mag primers with 110 but a good healthy crimp has always been SOP.

H-110/296 are the same powder just in different cans.

My first 475 was built by Bowen and was the first 475 Bowen ever built and he thought 400 to 420 grain bullets were to big and supplied a LBT 385 grain mold.

There was some lot to lot deviation in the early introduction which was quite noticeable on top end loads IMO.

Yea, before Hodgdon bought out Win powders. In the older manuals, it took a just a little bit more H110 to get the same velocities.

True about H110 and 296 work the best from 95% and up on max loads. Although my most accurate loads were about 95%. I never went much farther in my Smiths. That was the olden days. I am glad I did it.

Yea, IIRC, his words were you needed to run it (H-110) at top pressures/full charges for it to burn cleanly whereas, with LG, that wasn't as necessary.

I've got small handgun for fluff loads I didn't buy 475's 500's to run at half throttle. Only the 454 I don't believe should be run past 1400 fps for several reasons.
For ,e I look no farther than H-100/296 for my big bore load. H-110/296 works perfectly for me in the 45 colt with 300 grain and heavier bullets.

That's odd, considering they were at inception the same Olin ball powder. Even today, the powder lots will still vary, even if the data doesn't.

The perusal of several 30 odd year old manuals shows that its about 50/50 in the cartridges both are used. One needs more, or less than the other to do the same thing, without much rhyme or reason, other than typical lot variances or perhaps ambient conditions during testing. Ken Waters Pet Loads also bears the similar results of nothing being similar. Waters definitely did not have any inkling they were the same powder at all.


H110 was designed to work above a certain pressure level with some compression (think 30 Carbine).

According to the makers data of both powders, Lil'Gun is showing the same speed as the H110/296 load at 2,500 CUP less pressure with the .41 cal 265 WLNGC bullet in 41 Magnum.

True, test do vary for many reasons. Most are small. Many factors involved. I actually use 30 carbine for my testing of these two powders old and new. There had been little variance, but there is some. That is at a guessed 40K psi according to the manuals.

Regarding Blue Dot in .41 Magnum, I mentioned earlier I had queried Alliant about using Blue Dot, considering I'd heard several years ago they advised against it. This afternoon I received an e-mail from Alliant. Here it is.


"Blue Dot is not suggested for use in the .41 Magnum.
Thanks,
Shoot Straight
DuaneVB
CCI/Speer/Alliant
2299 Snake River Ave.
Lewiston, ID."


Thought it might be of interest.

L.W.

Leanwolf,

Thanks for forwarding that information.

I used to use quite a bit of Bluedot in my midrange 41 mag loads with 210 gr plated and jacketed bullets. After the warning was issued I used up what I had loaded and finished off the pound of Bluedot in stock with 210's loaded to about 900 fps.

HS-6 and SR4756 are both quite acceptable for the applications where I had previously used Bluedot. But now SR4756 has been discontinued.

If I had a can of Bluedot on the shelf, I would use in in moderate loads in my 41. But that is because I do not own a 44 or a 357.

Alliant, as far as I know, does still recommend Bluedot for the 357 with 158's and in the 44 mag with most bullet weights.

My understanding is there in nothing "unsafe" about using Blue Dot in .41 Magnum...it is some of the suggested loads that are unsafe. It is the top end loads in a lot of the manuals that some reloaders take as "Gospel" that have caused concern. I saw this a long time ago as I could never get near the velocity I saw others were purportedly getting without major pressure signs.

I have been using up the 8# container that I bought in the 1980s for mid-range loads and has been working just fine...

Bob

After the warning came out about Blue Dot. I just used it up on heavy 12 gauge loads.

Blue dot can cause pressure excursions in handgun rounds. I was shooting my buddies 475 linebaugh with some blue dot loads and one rounds had a pressure spike and had to be pounded out of the cylinder.

it's not for a heavy bullet, but the NRA american rifleman page 49 has a little blip on the .41magnum and a load, that per there stuff looks pretty good at 50 yards.

Speaking of 265s...finally received two molds this week from a GroupBuy on the CastBoolit Forums....the maker is Mehic from Solvakia and his molds are works of art...

This is a Cramer type that has a gas check bullet and pins that will make a deep HP, shallow HP, PentaPoint, cup point and solids.







...forgot the small HP pin...




The second mold makes the same bullet but just a solid with plain base...

It was over two years but worth the wait...Bob

Those are very nice molds. Congrats...

A while back I went to a getting out of shootin sale caused by a divorce I think. Anyhow he had a stack of those molds so I picked out three with handles that I could use as that was all the cash I had

It is really an odd thing when the shiny object syndrome kicks in and makes a person by some really nice molds but has no idea or other equipment to start casting.

Did I say how really nice mihec molds are?

Such is life in the gun looney world...

Gents, quick update, finally got some 110 and loaded some 265gr HC with 18.5gr and CCI 300 primers. Shot to POI with the factory loaded Buffalo Bore of the same weight loading. Recoil was very manageable.

If you need more 110 let me know as I am sure I have a fair bit.

thank you, Ed!

well my enabler in N.H. just had me push the button to send some money overseas for this mould, plus the .45acp mould. It is enriching my life, I think.

should mention that .45mould going off topic, i think it looks like a dandy
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?280833-MP-Molds-(MiHec)-452-200-HP-4cav-brass-molds-30-molds-ready-to-ship