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Joined: Jun 2003
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Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,642 Likes: 4 |
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 21,981 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 21,981 Likes: 3 |
one thing that nobody seems to comment on other than me with H110 or 296 is the very narrow spread in load amounts between minimum and maximum amounts. Good point, which is one thing to note when comparing Lil'Gun to H110. Lil' Gun is used per Hodgdon in revolver loads ranging from 12,000 CUP level to 56,000 PSI. That's a wide spread, which I've commented to how much easier it is to ignite and reduce. Lil'Gun also seems to be more at home in long, narrow powder columns. In the 357, data shows it getting 50-100 fps over H110/296 loads with 5,000 CUP less pressure.
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 17,151 Likes: 5
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 17,151 Likes: 5 |
In regard to your comment, H Bowen also remarked that you didn't have to run LG at full throttle loads for good ignition and burn as H-110 seemed to require and that it was also cleaner than H-110.
In not a handgun expert, but in setting up a RRH 45 C with him, those were his words to me.
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,985 Likes: 7
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,985 Likes: 7 |
In regard to your comment, H Bowen also remarked that you didn't have to run LG at full throttle loads for good ignition and burn as H-110 seemed to require and that it was also cleaner than H-110.
In not a handgun expert, but in setting up a RRH 45 C with him, those were his words to me.
I find H-110/296 to burn very clean with heavy bullets and full power charges.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 10,896
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 10,896 |
I find H-110/296 to burn very clean with heavy bullets and full power charges.
I agree...I ditched the shot shell powders years ago and have been using nothing but H-110 in my 41 and 44 mags. 296 was also good giving excellent accuracy but seemed temp sensitive in extreme heat so I stayed with 110. I never have used mag primers with 110 but a good healthy crimp has always been SOP.
Last edited by FlyboyFlem; 08/19/15.
You better be afraid of a ghost!!
"Woody you were baptized in prop wash"..crossfireoops
Woody
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Joined: Apr 2005
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,985 Likes: 7 |
I find H-110/296 to burn very clean with heavy bullets and full power charges.
I agree...I ditched the shot shell powders years ago and have been using nothing but H-110 in my 41 and 44 mags. 296 was also good giving excellent accuracy but seemed temp sensitive in extreme heat so I stayed with 110. I never have used mag primers with 110 but a good healthy crimp has always been SOP. H-110/296 are the same powder just in different cans. My first 475 was built by Bowen and was the first 475 Bowen ever built and he thought 400 to 420 grain bullets were to big and supplied a LBT 385 grain mold.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 10,896
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 10,896 |
I find H-110/296 to burn very clean with heavy bullets and full power charges.
I agree...I ditched the shot shell powders years ago and have been using nothing but H-110 in my 41 and 44 mags. 296 was also good giving excellent accuracy but seemed temp sensitive in extreme heat so I stayed with 110. I never have used mag primers with 110 but a good healthy crimp has always been SOP. H-110/296 are the same powder just in different cans. My first 475 was built by Bowen and was the first 475 Bowen ever built and he thought 400 to 420 grain bullets were to big and supplied a LBT 385 grain mold. There was some lot to lot deviation in the early introduction which was quite noticeable on top end loads IMO.
You better be afraid of a ghost!!
"Woody you were baptized in prop wash"..crossfireoops
Woody
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 11,275 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 11,275 Likes: 2 |
I find H-110/296 to burn very clean with heavy bullets and full power charges.
I agree...I ditched the shot shell powders years ago and have been using nothing but H-110 in my 41 and 44 mags. 296 was also good giving excellent accuracy but seemed temp sensitive in extreme heat so I stayed with 110. I never have used mag primers with 110 but a good healthy crimp has always been SOP. H-110/296 are the same powder just in different cans. My first 475 was built by Bowen and was the first 475 Bowen ever built and he thought 400 to 420 grain bullets were to big and supplied a LBT 385 grain mold. There was some lot to lot deviation in the early introduction which was quite noticeable on top end loads IMO. Yea, before Hodgdon bought out Win powders. In the older manuals, it took a just a little bit more H110 to get the same velocities. True about H110 and 296 work the best from 95% and up on max loads. Although my most accurate loads were about 95%. I never went much farther in my Smiths. That was the olden days. I am glad I did it.
Gun Shows are almost as comical as boat ramps in the Spring.
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 17,151 Likes: 5
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 17,151 Likes: 5 |
In regard to your comment, H Bowen also remarked that you didn't have to run LG at full throttle loads for good ignition and burn as H-110 seemed to require and that it was also cleaner than H-110.
In not a handgun expert, but in setting up a RRH 45 C with him, those were his words to me.
I find H-110/296 to burn very clean with heavy bullets and full power charges. Yea, IIRC, his words were you needed to run it (H-110) at top pressures/full charges for it to burn cleanly whereas, with LG, that wasn't as necessary.
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,985 Likes: 7
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,985 Likes: 7 |
In regard to your comment, H Bowen also remarked that you didn't have to run LG at full throttle loads for good ignition and burn as H-110 seemed to require and that it was also cleaner than H-110.
In not a handgun expert, but in setting up a RRH 45 C with him, those were his words to me.
I find H-110/296 to burn very clean with heavy bullets and full power charges. Yea, IIRC, his words were you needed to run it (H-110) at top pressures/full charges for it to burn cleanly whereas, with LG, that wasn't as necessary. I've got small handgun for fluff loads I didn't buy 475's 500's to run at half throttle. Only the 454 I don't believe should be run past 1400 fps for several reasons. For ,e I look no farther than H-100/296 for my big bore load. H-110/296 works perfectly for me in the 45 colt with 300 grain and heavier bullets.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 21,981 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 21,981 Likes: 3 |
Yea, before Hodgdon bought out Win powders. In the older manuals, it took a just a little bit more H110 to get the same velocities.
True about H110 and 296 work the best from 95% and up on max loads. Although my most accurate loads were about 95%. I never went much farther in my Smiths. That was the olden days. I am glad I did it. That's odd, considering they were at inception the same Olin ball powder. Even today, the powder lots will still vary, even if the data doesn't. The perusal of several 30 odd year old manuals shows that its about 50/50 in the cartridges both are used. One needs more, or less than the other to do the same thing, without much rhyme or reason, other than typical lot variances or perhaps ambient conditions during testing. Ken Waters Pet Loads also bears the similar results of nothing being similar. Waters definitely did not have any inkling they were the same powder at all. H110 was designed to work above a certain pressure level with some compression (think 30 Carbine). According to the makers data of both powders, Lil'Gun is showing the same speed as the H110/296 load at 2,500 CUP less pressure with the .41 cal 265 WLNGC bullet in 41 Magnum.
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 11,275 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 11,275 Likes: 2 |
Yea, before Hodgdon bought out Win powders. In the older manuals, it took a just a little bit more H110 to get the same velocities.
True about H110 and 296 work the best from 95% and up on max loads. Although my most accurate loads were about 95%. I never went much farther in my Smiths. That was the olden days. I am glad I did it. That's odd, considering they were at inception the same Olin ball powder. Even today, the powder lots will still vary, even if the data doesn't. The perusal of several 30 odd year old manuals shows that its about 50/50 in the cartridges both are used. One needs more, or less than the other to do the same thing, without much rhyme or reason, other than typical lot variances or perhaps ambient conditions during testing. Ken Waters Pet Loads also bears the similar results of nothing being similar. Waters definitely did not have any inkling they were the same powder at all. H110 was designed to work above a certain pressure level with some compression (think 30 Carbine). According to the makers data of both powders, Lil'Gun is showing the same speed as the H110/296 load at 2,500 CUP less pressure with the .41 cal 265 WLNGC bullet in 41 Magnum. True, test do vary for many reasons. Most are small. Many factors involved. I actually use 30 carbine for my testing of these two powders old and new. There had been little variance, but there is some. That is at a guessed 40K psi according to the manuals.
Gun Shows are almost as comical as boat ramps in the Spring.
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 13,424 Likes: 7
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 13,424 Likes: 7 |
Regarding Blue Dot in .41 Magnum, I mentioned earlier I had queried Alliant about using Blue Dot, considering I'd heard several years ago they advised against it. This afternoon I received an e-mail from Alliant. Here it is.
"Blue Dot is not suggested for use in the .41 Magnum. Thanks, Shoot Straight DuaneVB CCI/Speer/Alliant 2299 Snake River Ave. Lewiston, ID."
Thought it might be of interest.
L.W.
"Always go straight forward, and if you meet the devil, cut him in two and go between the pieces." (William Sturgis, clipper ship captain, 1830s.)
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 26,072 Likes: 15
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 26,072 Likes: 15 |
Leanwolf,
Thanks for forwarding that information.
I used to use quite a bit of Bluedot in my midrange 41 mag loads with 210 gr plated and jacketed bullets. After the warning was issued I used up what I had loaded and finished off the pound of Bluedot in stock with 210's loaded to about 900 fps.
HS-6 and SR4756 are both quite acceptable for the applications where I had previously used Bluedot. But now SR4756 has been discontinued.
If I had a can of Bluedot on the shelf, I would use in in moderate loads in my 41. But that is because I do not own a 44 or a 357.
Alliant, as far as I know, does still recommend Bluedot for the 357 with 158's and in the 44 mag with most bullet weights.
People who choose to brew up their own storms bitch loudest about the rain.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 7,920
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 7,920 |
My understanding is there in nothing "unsafe" about using Blue Dot in .41 Magnum...it is some of the suggested loads that are unsafe. It is the top end loads in a lot of the manuals that some reloaders take as "Gospel" that have caused concern. I saw this a long time ago as I could never get near the velocity I saw others were purportedly getting without major pressure signs.
I have been using up the 8# container that I bought in the 1980s for mid-range loads and has been working just fine...
Bob
If you can not deal with reality, reality will deal with you....
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Joined: Sep 2013
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 11,275 Likes: 2 |
After the warning came out about Blue Dot. I just used it up on heavy 12 gauge loads.
Gun Shows are almost as comical as boat ramps in the Spring.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 21,317
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 21,317 |
Blue dot can cause pressure excursions in handgun rounds. I was shooting my buddies 475 linebaugh with some blue dot loads and one rounds had a pressure spike and had to be pounded out of the cylinder.
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 16,000
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 16,000 |
it's not for a heavy bullet, but the NRA american rifleman page 49 has a little blip on the .41magnum and a load, that per there stuff looks pretty good at 50 yards.
THE BIRTH PLACE OF GERONIMO
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Joined: Feb 2001
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 7,920 |
Speaking of 265s...finally received two molds this week from a GroupBuy on the CastBoolit Forums....the maker is Mehic from Solvakia and his molds are works of art... This is a Cramer type that has a gas check bullet and pins that will make a deep HP, shallow HP, PentaPoint, cup point and solids. ...forgot the small HP pin... The second mold makes the same bullet but just a solid with plain base... It was over two years but worth the wait...Bob
If you can not deal with reality, reality will deal with you....
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Joined: Dec 2004
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 6,067 Likes: 1 |
Those are very nice molds. Congrats... A while back I went to a getting out of shootin sale caused by a divorce I think. Anyhow he had a stack of those molds so I picked out three with handles that I could use as that was all the cash I had It is really an odd thing when the shiny object syndrome kicks in and makes a person by some really nice molds but has no idea or other equipment to start casting. Did I say how really nice mihec molds are? Such is life in the gun looney world...
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