What does everyone think about the Remington bankruptcy and sell-off of their various units?

Ruger got Marlin, which I’m very happy about. Sierra got Barnes. While I don’t use Sierra bullets any place except my .375 Winchester, I say good for them. I’ve driven by the Sierra plant many times while visiting family in MO, and I’m OK with that as well.

Last year I purchased a Wally World Rem M700 in 7mm RM as a gift for a SIL. (No, he is not a prohibited person.) When sighting it in for him I noticed slightly sticky extraction using factory ammo, but didn’t think much of it. Later, when we were doing load development, the problem go noticeably worse long before we got to max loads. Before hunting season I took it back to the range with three different factory loads. Don’t recall what the factory ammo was, but one load was fine, then next slightly sticky and the third required beating the bolt back with my fist.

Now that Remington is in gone, I really don’t expect that the people who bought the non-Marlin manufacturing and are the same that ran Remington into the ground, will honor any kind of warranty. I suspect the chamber is the issue and the only fix will be to cut the barrel back and rechamber or rebarrel.

From a timing standpoint, I guess I’m glad the sale occurred before we sent the rifle back to Remington. Might have been out a rifle.

Could be the chamber just needs polished. My last Wallyworld ADL was one rough rifle in and out.

It will be Interesting to see what Ruger tries to produce under the Marlin name. I'd assume 45-70/444 will continue as soon as they're able just because no one seems to be able to keep them in stock. For Remington bolt guns, I don't see this as a Winchester-type situation. As it changed hands, "Winchester" kept making nice rifles and the current M70s are arguably the best overall quality. (Yes, I wish they were still made in America, but the Portugal guns are damn nice.) The quality of newer Remington guns, especially the SPS you'd see at box stores, was pretty cheap. There are TONS of cheap, synthetic rifles out there that shoot as well or better than 700s (Ruger, XPR, Tikka, Vanguard) and I don't think the new owners are reverting back to walnut, metal parts, and deep luster bluing that made them famous. So it's hard to see where they fit in the market in a way that keeps them in business?

It’s probably a chamber problem but the stock could be binding the action as well. Loosen all the screws and get them just tight enough to hold the gun in the stock and see if it still does it.

Remington went under because they built crap guns along with having a crap business model. It’s a prime example of what happens when people who know nothing about guns run a gun business.. I won’t even get into the pistol line. That R51.... Cmon...

That said, the new owners can start producing pre-2004 guns and will probably do very well.

Todd

Owned Rem rifles in the past.

Never developed any sort of emotional attachment to them. Just a tool. The demise is basically a non event to me.

Never bought a Rem because I wanted a Rem, I bought them because I wanted X cartridge and they happened to have one in a Rem.

They have not made much in the last 50 years that I'll miss. Even their once great "core-Lokt" bullets were cheapened many years ago, and like most things made by Remington, their concern for doing anything to the highest standard of the industry was far from their agenda. NOTHING they have done since the 1960s was very noteworthy.

So I do hate to see many American Gun Company go under because it is so delightful to the "left", but if any richly deserved to go as a victim of self inflicted wounds, it's Remington.

^^^^ This

So is anyone going to produce the 700 anymore?

Will be really interesting to see how Ruger handles the Marlin acquisition. Remington had some real growing pains in learning how to build those guns when they lost all of the institutional knowledge at the New Haven Works. Trading CNC machines for investment casting offers a whole new set of potential challenges that they will have to figure out. My hope is that they take their time and get it right, and I suspect they will.

I’m a fan of REM 700s. I like accurate rifles and with rare exceptions, the REM 700 is accurate, in my experience.

We’ll see on the Remington guns; haven’t heard of any sell off on this piece.

Vista Outdoors (CCI, Speer, Federal and others) bought the Remington ammo division. Dakota Arms is for sale, and prospects for it aren’t looking good, apparently.

I do hope somebody resurrects these brands at high quality, a la BACO/Winchester.

As previously has been said non-gun people trying to run a gun business and not paying any attention to public feedback.

Mis-steps by choosing to make too many models and compete going cheap instead of holding quality high and demanding a fair price for quality that Americans want and will pay for.

Were they the first to use pressed in checkering on wood stocks? How many years of selling dangerous trigger mechanisms can be expected to continue without the public catching on?

Naming or sometimes misnaming their new chamberings without adequate promotion. For example if 7mm-08 is a success, why not name the next one 6.5mm-08 instead of .260 Remington which suggests it is a derived from a .270 Win,?



























they

When Remington bought Marlin, they moved the manufacturing equipment but not the people who knew how to use that old equipment to make good parts and guns. Thus the crappy Remlins from early on. Remington them re-blueprinted the rifles and quality went up. Don't know if they were as good as genuine JM Marlins because I don't own a Remlin. My three Marlins are all JM stamped.

Ruger, I'm sure' will turn out excellent Marlins. My understanding is Ruger will manufacture the the Marlins, or at least the levers, at their NC plant using the new blueprints Remington produced after their acquisition of Marlin. Hope to see 45-70 and 444 rifles available in the second half of 2021.

And I think it would be awesome if Ruger would reintroduce the .375 Winchester with proper chambers (not 38-55 like Marlin did) and Hornady FTX ammunition. Perfect cartridge for a lot of straight-wall hunting states.

Remington's execs, just like those in a lot of Modern American companies don't really have any understanding of their consumers. This wasn't helped by the various mergers and debt load the company had from the moment Cerebrus acquired them and then when they were divested from them later. Then there was product failure after product failure for the last 25 years.

You nailed it. Trying to help some local shooters with warranty claims of several Remington firearms over the last few years, my conclusion is that Remington is/was a manufacturing company that decided the best use for it's floor space and cnc machinery was to build firearms instead of the highly competitive field of widget makers. About 3 minutes on the phone with one of their 'techs' would convince anybody that maybe widgets would have been the better choice.

Management intent was part of the demise, along with QC and dropping many of the popular model variants.
As for QC, here's a boreshot of a 700 ADL 243 cheesy bought for his son on closeout last spring.

Ring is the full 360 degree circumference of the bore, about 1/2" ahead of the chamber. Shoots 85 Sierra HP Gameking under an inch and a half with H4895 for a reduced recoil load for the boy. Worked well this fall on a nice sized doe during Youth season. So far we haven't tried any other load or bullet.

The “footprint” will live on for certain. Not a fan of the extractor, or multi-piece bolts brazed together, but the basic layout is obviously good, just the execution has been wanting at times. 870 clones are out there too, or at least in appearance.

A Diff Perspective:

Remington has been a part of my Shooting and Hunting life since a kid in 1960. Rem 551 A, 22 RF, 870s and later 700s.

Never had a single problem with ONE! Times Change... What the % of problems to TOTAL number of products produced.
Don't know but it'd have to be VERY LOW.

I'm sorry to see ANY firearm company turn toes up >> even SaLvage or Mooseberg, (if they did).

NONE of my Rems are for sale.

Jerry

They sowed to the wind with their POS Walker trigger and reaped the whirlwind... screw them.

Only thing I ever cared for was the 870.

Eleven 700s in my safe, every single one except the 223 has a walker trigger..... and that’s exactly what’s getting ready to go in it as well. Not a thing wrong with that trigger.

Experimental Speed Groove:?

Maybe to compliment the grooves on a TSX?

Remington's poor management, particularly their poor new product marketing, isn't a new thing for Remington.

How many cartridges have they introduced over the past 75 years that failed?

How many firearms have they introduced over the same period that failed?

How many firearms did they introduce and then drop before they had a chance to establish themselves?

Look at how poorly they supported the 260 when it was launched.

Poor management, poor marketing, poor, poor, poor..........

That said, I have a lot of Remington firearms and some of them are among my favorites, the 504 in 17HM2 that I shoot squirrels with and the 597 in 22 MAG that I shoot 'cats with.

EDIT: Remington is like a second/third rate sports team that finds a way to lose when it could just have easily won.

Remington DID kill itself.

My thoughts:

1. Their QC went to hell.
2. Their budget rifles sucked compared to other companies budget offerings.
3. They tried to ride the 700 and 870, and did......right into the ground.

I'm old enough to remember when you built rifles pretty much on 700 actions or pre-64 Winchester. It's sad that it's no longer the case, but the world keeps turning

Like AKduck, I hope the 870, particularly the Wingmaster, survives in some quality iteration. I've got mine, but it is a better world if Wingmasters are being made. But I'm doubtful.....not many of us pump shotgun fans left.

Remington brass was my #1 commercial preference. Makes me sad to see that part go away.

Only owned a couple of 600"s and 870 's

Curious as to what might happen with Dakota, don't want one, just curious

I often harken back to three, what I consider, exceptional rounds; 260 Remington, 6MM Remington and 280 Remington. Their marketing of all three doomed all three to the land of "also ran" cartridges. I swear any one of Remington's marketing geniuses could fall into a barrel of nipples and would come out sucking his thumb.

You disagree with Mike Walker, who in a sworn affidavit stated he begged Remington to dis-use the trigger. And yes, I've read the documents first-hand.

Guess you know more...

I have several Remington's, though the newest is close to 25 years old. Beautiful wood and rich bluing are going away, just is what it is. Shotguns will be compared to Benellis, Berettas, & Brownings. Rimfires have to stack up against Ruger 1022's & Cz's. For centerfire rifle you have Savage Axis, T.C. Compasses, & Mossbergs Patriot at one end and Weatherby Vanguards, Bergara B14's at the other with Howa between. Not to mention AR's. Your reputation isn't going to cut it in this world where brand loyalty is fading, you have to actually build something people want. If you do they will spend the money. Again it just is what it is. Remington didn't build what we wanted at the right price so we said no thank you.

Oh, [bleep]. I'm stealing that one.

Nothing wrong with the Walker trigger right up until there is. It’s been documented by the military. The designer says they are problematic. Some on this forum (me included) have had trouble with them. But since you have never had a problem, it must be all good, right?

Someone once said (here) - It could be raining naked women and you'd get hit by the lesbian...

I am always sad to see ANY gunmaker go out of business especially a 200+ year old American gunmaker....Id say plenty of Lib's are celebrating another victory 🎉.......Hb

Coyote Hunter: Got my first Remington Rifle 65 (sixty five!) years ago - it was a gift from father for myself and my brother.
Still have it today.
Bought a LOT of Remington Rifles and shotguns in the interim 65 years - still own 76 (seventy six) of them (2 shotguns & 74 Rifles).
So "I" have a lifetime supply on hand for me and my progeny.
I do think its a shame that "Big Green" got screwed up (ruined) over "big finance" interests.
Indeed I have fond memories of "coming of age" as an accuracy seeking Rifleman when I purchased the first of many Remington 700 BDL Varmints and some Unertl Target Scopes.
Then "movin on up" to the first of MANY really accurate Remington 40X Rifles.
Speaking of accuracy, when Remington brought out their wonderful and innovative XR-100 Rifle, in various Varmint calibers, every one I bought or had anything to do with was SUPERBLY accurate - I still have 5 of these wonderful Colony Varminting Rifles.
Yeah Remington got mismanaged and mishandled to death, there at the end - but they made a LOT of mistakes earlier along the way, in my opinion. Along with their MANY successes (870!) wonderful innovations and superb cartridges that they brought out.
Sad to see them go.

In order my favorite centerfire Remington Rifles:
#1: = 700 BDL Varmint
#2: = 700 BDL
#3: = 722
#4: = 725
#5: = 40X
#6: = XR-100
#7: = 788
#8: = 721
#9: = 660

In order my favorite rimfire Remington Rifles
#1: = 40X
#2: = 541-T
#3: = 37 Rangemaster
#4: = 513-T (Target Master)
#5: = 121 (pump action)
#6: = 513-S (Sporting)
#7: = 66

Yep it looks like Big Green is done and gone - it was a pleasure knowing them.
R.I.P.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

[quote=Reloder28
Remington brass was my #1 commercial preference. Makes me sad to see that part go away.[/quote]

Ditto for me as well.

I have been using more and more Hornady lately. I have used it in 22-250, 250 Savage, 7x64 and 7 WSM. No compaints with it and will use it as my R-P dries up.

In the grand scheme of things, I wonder how unsafe they really are?

Millions of them put into service for over 60 years with many millions of rounds fired and a failure rate that is a fraction of 1%?

I've owned over 200 Remington rifles with those trigger and never had a problem. Considering the number of rifles with those triggers and the number of rounds fired from those rifles, I'm probably overdue for an accidental discharge.

Sounds like you're a mite older than me. I didn't shoot my first Remington until I was a grade schooler, maybe 6-7 years old. That would be the latter part of the 50's. It was Grandad's Remington 24 in .22 Short - a licensed copy of Browning's wonderful semi-auto .22. Granddad purchased it for about $20 in the early 1930's (year of manufacture was 1931). Shot that rifle many times growing up. When I got out of the service the first thing I purchased as a genuine Browning as I didn't think I would live long enough to inherit the Model 24. My girls grew up shooting the Browning. Finally became the proud owner of the Remington rifle in 2014 after Dad passed. In 1997 I purchased a 870 and in 2005 I purchased a Special Purpose Wood (checkered walnut with floorplate), apparently a special for Dick's Sporting Goods. Cost was $225 and I couldn't pass it up. Also got a Remington M700 muzzleloader in 1997. All of those are still in my safe and won't be going anywhere. I did sell a BDL in .308 Win I had purchased used at Gander. It was a tack driving SOB but it went to fund my first AR15 rifle, which came with two different uppers - .223/5.56 and .300Blk. Still have both of them. Bought a used lefty BDL in .270 Win for Daughter #1 to use. It's a tack driver but it was built years before Remington really started on the downhill as far as quality.

My Remingtons aren't going anywhere and the future may have me purchasing more on the used market. We'll see.

All I know is that back in the 90's we were on the KD range at Camp Ripley doing a rifle class for the St Paul CIRT team snipers and some guys from Moose Lake prison.

One guy's 700 would fire at least half the time when you flipped from safe to fire. It was repeatable. I don't know what the department did with the rifle, but I do know that, considering LE are part of the small shooting population that would (and should) be finger fugging the safety with it pointed at someone they may or may not intend to shoot, it was not confidence instilling. It was taken off the line after we confirmed the officer was not lying.

It was a brand new rifle. Yes, the officer "adjusted" the trigger. No, he didn't remove any parts or stone any parts, he only messed with screws.

YMMV, but any trigger that can be "set" to fire when the safety is moved from safe to fire isn't something I want on a rifle, even if it's a super rare tolerance stacking anomally.

quote = 260 remguy

" In the grand scheme of things, I wonder how unsafe they really are?

Millions of them put into service for over 60 years with many millions of rounds fired and a failure rate that is a fraction of 1%? "
--------------------------


YES SIR ! Since 1960........2020, I'm in the 99 percentile ! Nary a problem one !

Jerry

If Remington 700 series triggers scare you, you are wise to avoid them.

I have never had or seen a Remington trigger fire when the safety was released, but safeties are mechanical devices that can fail.

Bearrr264 would never let anyone hunt with him if the person was using a rifle with DSTs or an exposed hammer. He had seen more than a couple of accidental discharges from rifles so equipped and didn't want them around him.

They don't scare me, but I've never owned one since maybe two weeks after that class.

Unlike you, I have seen it. And it wasn't a one-off, it was repeatable.

Funny thing is, everyone thought the cop was full of it, until we realized he wasn't. I'd be lying if I said I didn't think he was lying when he popped one off before targets were hot. Everyone thought it was on operator error ND, not a mechanical ND.

That said, hundreds of 700s through dozens of classes were fine until that one wasn't, and I never saw it happen again.

Sometimes, once is enough.

I've seen them where if you closed the bolt too hard it would fire, and one if you banged on the side of the rifle it would fire. Because people who didn't know what they were doing "adjusted" them.

I'm not aware Mike Walker said any such thing. I'd sure like to see or hear that.

On the other hand Mike Walker did say it was a good trigger.

Like I said, an error rate that is a fraction of 1%, Maybe the police officer did more than turn screws and was embarrassed to admit it. The fact that it was repeatable on that one rifle suggests to me that there was something wrong with that particular rifle. Maybe a factory error, maybe an after-market error, no way to know without being able to inspect the rifle in question.

Remington's demise had nothing to do with triggers or even particularly bad management. It had everything to do with the Italian holding company Cerberus bleeding Remington dry, and a series of dumbshceit Italian CEO's who didn't have clue about the American firearms market.

I'm a free market guy, but what Cerberus did in conjunction with another foreign company should be criminal.

Even the NY Times acknowledged it......

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/05/01/magazine/remington-guns-jobs-huntsville.html

Cerberus isn't Italian. It was good ole Americans who screwed over Remington.

Not in deposition he didn’t...

You can drive the market, like Ruger has done to a great degree with the American Rifle series, or you can react to what others are doing. Remington has done a lot of reacting.

An example of investment groups creating wealth for themselves by eliminating real wealth in the form of the manufacture of a tangible product. There was nothing "free market" about anything that happened with Remington.
By the way, I've seen dozens of rifles (Remingtons and others) which would fire when the safety was released and I know the cause. Hint: it isn't the goddam connector.
There have been some big changes in the firearms industry and in marketing models over the last forty years and it is, to a great extent, these changes which have caused so many firearms related companies to fold. Of course, one must also factor in the retirement of the managers of the 1960's and 1970's. It was in the early '80's that marketing really started to change. Some companies were able to adapt and some were not. GD

An example of investment groups creating wealth for themselves by eliminating real wealth in the form of the manufacture of a tangible product. There was nothing "free market" about anything that happened with Remington.
By the way, I've seen dozens of rifles (Remingtons and others) which would fire when the safety was released and I know the cause. Hint: it isn't the goddam connector.
There have been some big changes in the firearms industry and in marketing models over the last forty years and it is, to a great extent, these changes which have caused so many firearms related companies to fold. Of course, one must also factor in the retirement of the managers of the 1960's and 1970's. It was in the early '80's that marketing really started to change. Some companies were able to adapt and some were not. GD

Oh, by the way, the OP's rifle is simply exhibiting the total lack of primary extraction which has come standard on every recent 700 I've seen. GD

Don’t how much truth there is to it but I heard it’ll probably be a year or better before you see any “new” Remington guns of any kind on the market. Hate to see happen but I worked for the investment company that owned them and I can see why it happened. Always had a soft spot for the Remington brand .

You have 28k posts on a forum.....having a 28k post count does not make one an authority on the subject. There are an awful
lot of people who haven’t had an ounce of issue with a properly tuned walker trigger. Over many years and many thousands of rounds. First hand experience I might add not ; something that was read. ......If a target trigger is what you desire maybe you are better served by a different system....but for someone just wanting a nice hunting weight trigger. I find them awfully hard to beat.

I think they’re good triggers as well and you’re right, the majority didn’t have problems, but as others have mentioned SOME of them were very unsafe. The Walker designed trigger was awesome right up until it wasn’t and there are plenty that are still out there behaving. I just wouldn’t wanna get the one that isn’t.

I don't think you can blame the investment company whether it be Freedom Arms Group or Cerberus or whoever.

Remington has had 2 good designs in the past 100 years, the 870 and the 700 which is basically a pipe nipple barrel into a female pipe nipple receiver.

All the 710's and other turd imports/ budget guns are best left at the bottom of the river.

they got into bed with the Wal-Marts of the world and had to continually canibalize their quality to hit price points. The last 3 model 7's I owned would slice your fingers loading rounds in the mag box, one had non-concentric muzzle threading, and all of their "matte black" finishes were gray, cheap, and fragile

All their cartridges were mis-marketed. Think if the 260 remington had half the following of the 6.5 Creemoor? Remington could survive just on the ammo... It's the same damn round!!!

the best part of a Remington Ultra Mag is the name. They seem like a better cartridge after you have had some RUM.

I think Like Winchester, they will be back. Probably better, probably move out of New York to a state that likes employers and businesses, they are welcome to come to Texas, we got land to spare.

True, but the Remington haters on here would have to take the blinders off before they could understand that. Remington did have some QC problems, ALL companies do at some point in time. I read all these posts about how someone bought a "cheap" Remington 700 from Walmart, and it ain't nothing but junk, should have been thrown in the junk pile. Well, I've got two 700's chambered in 6.5 Creedmoor. One is a rifle that retails for around $1200, the other I paid $400 for it at Walmart, and both are equally accurate.

I both own, and have currently owned a goodly number of Remington firearms. I hate to see them go under and hope that they resurface, and resume making guns again.

A quick thought on the 870. They've made 10 or 11 MILLION of them. There are only so many buyers out there.
They are so rugged there really will never be a shortage of 870's till we start hunting with plasma guns, 30 watt range.

I wonder if the 7600 will be made again.

I do like the RUMs. Well, at least the 300.. never owned a 338, 7 or 375 but they’re pretty much the top of the heap in performance and the 700 action is a great place to house em.

While returning from an elk hunt late last week we drove past the Remington ammo plant on Interstate 40 in Arkansas. The parking lot there was full of cars. It would make me think someone is turning out ammo.

The Remington sign was still up.

As bad as has been run, it still lasted a lot longer than the real Winchester.

Cerberus borrowed something like $800,000,000 (that's not a typo, son) against Remington, pocketed it, and then made Remington service the debt. Maybe if they were the only sporting firearm manufacturer on the planet and dominated the market, just maybe, they could have successfully paid the debt.

Remington's "demise" had nothing to do with the products they were manufacturing, how they were manufacturing it, or how much it cost to manufacture it.

I'm not saying that everything Remington turned out was wonderful but given their debt no sporting firearm manufacturer in the world could make it work.

I've shot 700 Remingtons since 1970 with Walker triggers never had a problem keep them clean and maintained. When they have a problem it's because the old oil got gummy or some dumb fug reduced the engagement past the safe point and the poundage too. The Walker trigger was adjustable but like anything else a lot of unqualified people decided to adjust them that really didn t know what they were doing. I think Mike Walker's regret was that he made them adjustable without considering that dumbasses would adjust them past safe settings. Remington has allways had piss poor management and like others pointed out has not helped them. MB

For whatever the reason, I am still getting a monthly email from Remington, concerning the ammunition side only.

Nail meet hammer. As I have said before, the purpose of a private equity firm is to extract the maximum amount of cash from a company before flipping it. It is "predatory buying". There is zero intent to "build" anything, or to do any "value add". The sole purpose of the transaction is to bleed the victim dry before selling to the next sucker. Unfortunately, this is another one of those things that we will never see the Swamp in DC legislate against, because it is their well connected swamp buddies who are the vampires / leeches...

I hope someone starts making the good Remington products again. Someone that understands the market. I own 3 model 700s and have used them for years. They are accurate and I have never had them fire on their own. I adjusted them lighter and adjusted according to some instructions I have.
They don't need to make ARs or pistols. Make 870s and 700s and do it well. Twist the barrels to satisfy market demand and people will buy them. If they bring out a new chambering support it with ammo for it. Not supporting their own chamberings causes people to not trust your brand and they go elsewhere.

Exactly right. The only problem that I ever had with mine, was exactly what you said. After cleaning and adjusting, it was fine. Mine have all been replaced with Timneys and re-builds, though.

Me too!

When on afe, the Remington trigger assembly has the sear lifted off the trigger connector and held by the safety. When the safety lever is moved to the fire position, the sear is dropped onto the trigger connector. If someone "adjusts" the screws for very minimal travel, especially with light poundage on the pull weight, it is easy to see that with a bit of "slop" in parts fit the sear might fall off the tip of the trigger connector and let the firing pin go.

Orion, Didn’t mean to sound as though I disagreed, indeed I entirely agree!

One of the biggest strengths of the M700 was the eminently adjustable trigger, one of its biggest downfalls are clowns who don’t know how to adjust them.

I bought a M700 here on the ‘fire where the sear engagement had been adjusted to HALF of what Remington has always recommended.

It was an “accidental discharge” looking for a tragedy.....

A few doozies here, but the best reason for Rems. demise that I've read was that it was The Israeli's fault.

Cerberus took them down, but the founder of Cerberus, Steve Feinberg, even though being born in The Bronx, has a Jewish name. Ergo,,,, ,

Oh god, I hope Bristoe doesn’t read this........

Maybe they didn't need to make AR's but I sure like my R-15. Bushmaster and DPMS might have helped keep them a float awhile longer if their management turds hadn't kiboshed them. Sticking 800mil debt to Remington was their final straw to kill the company and criminal to say the least. MB

Vista Outdoors (Federal, CCI, etc.) bought the Remington ammo business. Anyone who owns an ammo plans in this day and age and isn’t running 24/7/365 is a damn fool. I don’t think Vista is a fool.

Problem now is that Rem rifles and Rem ammo won't be under the same roof. So they could come out with a new cartridge, but they'd have to contract with someone else if they really wanted support on the ammo side. (Winchester is the same way now. Ammo and branded rifles not from the same house.)

I moved away from Remington 700’s years ago, I’m still sad to see them go. As to the 870, they may have been the best Pump action shotgun ever made. I may need to hit the used market and pick up a Wingmaster.

Agree
A 700 in .223 with a 12 twist is almost a sin. At the slowest it should be a 9 and I much prefer an 8. My guess is many folks feel the same way. Ruger figured that out with the RAR.

kwg

By 2015 Remington had produced over 5.3 million M700 rifles. At 0.05% that is still 26,500 faulty rifles. But Remington saved a couple pennies per rifle by not fixing the Walker trigger per Walker's recommendation. Remington made the decision that fighting the laswsuits would be cheaper than fixing the problem.

Moreover, the Remington documents produced in court showed that as many as 50% of the rifles coming off the line had to have the triggers adjusted to eliminate the FOR (Fire On Release) problem. I believe this 50% number applied more to the 600 line, which also used the Walker trigger and same action as the M700.


How unsafe are they? Deadly. Just ask the people that died.

You're my hero!

How many people have died because of the trigger's design flaw that Remington didn't deem worth the cost to fix?

Does the trigger problem go back to the series of 721, 722, and 725 rifles that preceded the 700 and it offspring?

The trigger had no design flaw except in the imaginations of some lawyers who wanted to make money from it. Individual triggers were flawed but they had a manufacturing defect; not a design flaw. Plaintiff lawyers had hitched their cart to the "design flaw" horse and were bound to stick with it.
The trigger connector was a clever design feature which allowed the trigger lever to be made of cheaper material. The connector was later recognized to be a superfluous piece but Remington lawyers didn't want to change the trigger , fearing that would signal responsibility. Bean counters didn't want to change it because they had probably already stamped out a million connectors and cast a million trigger levers. MSNBC has managed to convince a lot of people though.
Remington's designs were fine, their QC sucked. GD

Not True at all Brad!

I too have seen video of his deposition online and never once did he claim his trigger design was unsafe, in fact he repeatedly said it was perfectly safe but could be better. He reiterated these statements in video interviews readily available online.

(Screen grab from a report detailing the lawsuit)
“Even so, Walker defends his original design during the deposition, saying the trigger was — and is — safe. Just as in the CNBC program, Walker says his complaints had to do with the manufacturing process, not the design.”

Walker in his deposition repeatedly mentions 2 “possible” issues with how Remington chose to produce the original design:
1. He proposed to add an additional part that would mechanically block the trigger and not just the sear and Remington refused due to the cost of 5.5 cents per unit.
2. The other issue he brought up was his design called for parts to be machined steel and Remington chose to use MIM parts in some places which Walker felt could lead to premature wear.

Under sworn testimony in the same lawsuit, Remington produced evidence from independent third party labs showing that they were unable to attribute MIM parts or premature wear to being the cause of any of the failed triggers they evaluated.

Walker wanted his design modified but not once is he on record saying he felt the design was unsafe as you claim.

Link to CNBC article that includes video with Walker .
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cn...troversial-remington-trigger-speaks.html

And where did you get that info?........

If you don't like Remington firearms, fine, just enjoy what you do like, and don't run down a product that other people do like. My first gun was a Remington 511 22 rifle, which I still have. Got it for Christmas around 1960. I've been hooked on Remington bolt action rifles ever since. I just prefer the design over other brands, and I've owned other brands, some of which I liked, others which I didn't.

Now, having said that, I've had a trigger on a Model 7 that let go as soon as the safety was released, and a bolt handle that came off the third time the rifle was fired. So, I know they haven't been without their problems, but given the huge number of firearms they've built, there is going to be a bad apple in the bunch at some point in time. I bought a new 1977 Ford pickup, and started home in it, and halfway there a gear on the distributor shaft broke, and left me sitting on the side of the road. I've also bought other products new, and had them go bad in a very short while, yet I'm still using these products, and still driving Ford trucks.

Remington did not go under because they made junk, they went under because of bad ownership that did not care about the brand, or the firearms industry. They used Remington to help finance some of their other projects, being interested only in the money Remington could provide them. Hopefully, this will be a lesson for all in the firearms industry.

For Clarity Mallard Addict said the following !


Not True at all Brad!

I too have seen video of his deposition online and never once did he claim his trigger design was unsafe, in fact he repeatedly said it was perfectly safe but could be better. He reiterated these statements in video interviews readily available online.

(Screen grab from a report detailing the lawsuit)
“Even so, Walker defends his original design during the deposition, saying the trigger was — and is — safe. Just as in the CNBC program, Walker says his complaints had to do with the manufacturing process, not the design.”

Walker in his deposition repeatedly mentions 2 “possible” issues with how Remington chose to produce the original design:
1. He proposed to add an additional part that would mechanically block the trigger and not just the sear and Remington refused due to the cost of 5.5 cents per unit.
2. The other issue he brought up was his design called for parts to be machined steel and Remington chose to use MIM parts in some places which Walker felt could lead to premature wear.

Under sworn testimony in the same lawsuit, Remington produced evidence from independent third party labs showing that they were unable to attribute MIM parts or premature wear to being the cause of any of the failed triggers they evaluated.

Walker wanted his design modified but not once is he on record saying he felt the design was unsafe as you claim.

Link to CNBC article that includes video with Walker .
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cn...troversial-remington-trigger-speaks.html
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Thank You !

Back in the early '80s, S&W marketed a pump shotgun (M3000) that was a clone, more or less, of the 870, primarily for the LE market. It was made by Howa, who was also making the same rifles that Weatherby calls the Vanguard. Those 3000s were even better than 870s, and would feed even if a round slipped past the shell stops. Apparently, Remington took note and altered the 870s to also do that, and got their market share back from S&W pretty quick. I had at least 3 of the M3000s, which I bought from a police supply shop local to me. They were damned good guns.

If Howa were to bring back the 3000s, I suspect some of us would forget that the 870s even existed. I've owned a bunch of 870s over the years, but the last one I bought was an unmitigated piece of crap. I sure wish I'd kept those Howas. They were somewhat lighter and trimmer than the bulbous 870s, too. Nice little guns.

I'm sorry there bud about the 870

I've never sold one but all are 70s-80s models.

Jerry

Don't know how many died, but yes, the Walker trigger was used in the 721, 722 and 725 as well as M700 variants like the 600. It was in use from at least 1948 to 2006.

I have a soft spot for Remingtons...another one has followed me home , complete with a Bear and a buck deer...I think this is pre walker trigger, do I need to worry?

I've owned a heck of a lot of Remington rifles and shotguns. I currently have none. I guess that says something right there

Was there also a safety issue with the first iteration of the XMP trigger on 700s?

I picked up another one today, a brand new 700 Youth ADL in .243 from Wal-Mart. I have had a Bansner stock sitting on a shelf for a while now, just aching for something to go into it. I will have this one threaded, throw a simple piece of glass on it, and go kill stuff.

I have one that the grandkids use to deer hunt with, and another one that's NIB. Nice little rifles.

What spot will it fill?

RAR has the $400 spot locked up.

Buy rem700 action and pay to have it cleaned up?

Or buy a $900 clone ready to go and run with it?

I'll take a $400 ADL 700 over that $400 RAR every single time...

The CVA Cascade does show potential to absorb a pretty good chunk of the cheaply priced but not cheaply built market the 700 lived in.

She had a better divorce attorney, eh?

You mean other than the fact that it killed Remington as dead as any of it's supposed victims?

One macro reason is that children today are playing video games, and not getting trigger time with BB guns, 22 rim fire rifles, and growing into centerfire rifle shooters. That is hurting all firearm manufacturers, and it will get worse. Combine that with political pressure, law suits, and brainwashing media, it will be a challenge each year.

Teach a child to handle a BB / pellet gun and 22 rifle responsibly. Invite a neighbor or relative and their children out for a plinking session focusing on safety.

Remington gone. Winchester gone, back, gone. ( now FN), Montana . others absorbed : Marlin, NEF. So, it is not just Remington.

We need more youth shooting programs.

What is going on with DPMS? My .308 GII Hunter with the 20" bbl is the most accurate semi-auto rifle I have ever shot.

That trigger had nothing to do with the death of Remington. Cerberus milked them for what they were worth and left the bones for the vultures to clean up.

https://www.captainsjournal.com/2019/05/05/how-cerberus-drove-remington-out-of-business/

I say good riddance in their last version. Hopefully some better quality & workmanship will be restored if they start production again.

hate to see remington go, especially the 870 WINGMASTER and model 700 BDL. as for the other offers, i don't care. i read several different entities bought all the machinery in the ilion plant and have already hauled it away. if that's true, remington, as we know it, will never return. we still have ruger (which i read the other day was the largest american gun manufacturer), winchester, and some others. i predict few will miss remington firearms, though it is somewhat sad that another gun manufacturer has passed.

I'll miss Remington more than I value any other you listed, nearly as much as Marlin. I'm not holding my breath that the Ruger owned Marlin will produce a single thing I want.

Luckily, gun store and pawnshops will be full of Remingtons for the rest of my life.

Just traded for a 1956 Model 760 ADL. I'm tickled pink with Remington these days.