I have been tinkering with the idea of getting into a compact short mag rifle. What is the better option between the SAUM, WSM, and RCM?

better in which way?....

WSM's have the most brass and factory ammo availability, specifically the 300 WSM, so in that regard it might be "better." I've taken enough game with the 300 WSM to know it works the same as a 300 WM.

However, the only Short Mag Id own anymore is the 6.5 PRC. Kicks a little and kills a lot...

Something that can fill the shoes of say a 300WM in a compact rifle with barrel 20" or less. Less prone to feeding issues I hear about with the short fat rounds. I don't reload yet but plan to start when things calm down and availability come back in line.

Thanks, going to have to do some looking at that round. do you know if it does well in a shorter barrel rifle?

Of the short mags, the 300WSM is probably the best established and the most easily sourced brass. And, it is a great hunting cartridge in its own right, too.

Not saying there are not other good options, just that the 300WSM is a good "starter" short mag.

A lot depends on what you want and what platform you use. I currently have 2 338RCMs, a 7SAUM and a 300WSM.

All have advantages, 300WSM and 6.5 PRC is the only ones where its going to be easy to buy factory ammo ( if the current shortage ever passes that is)

The SAUMs and RCMs are a little shorter in the case and perhaps better in a rifle that doesn't have a 3.00 mag box. If you want to shoot high BC bullets, it will take a little bit of planning to get the COAL and throat right. I suspect that 6.5 PRCs should be pretty good in this regard from the get go.

The RCMs do feed smoother than the SAUMs or WSMs, but have a little less case capacity. While neither my 300WSM or 7 SAUM feed smoothly, they do feed reliably, others have reported issues.

Typically you will loose one round of capacity in the Mag with a short mag as compared to a 06/08 based cartridge if thats important to you.

I have been looking at finding a Remington Model Seven in the SAUM or WSM or a Ruger guide or compact magnum rifle if I go the way of RCM. Just the little bit of looking at the 6.5 PRC platform, the rifles and ammunition are significantly more expensive.

I like the 7mm saum

I’m a fan of the 270 and 300wsm. No feeding issues out of a Tikka. I personally would not look to shorten the barrels. I find the 24” flavor work just fine. Between the extra noise/loss of velocity, I’d look to a 308 based case if you’re going to shorten the pipe. Just my .02.

270 or 300 WSM

I'd never do a WSM on a Remington action. You're better off with the SAUM in that platform.

If you want it in a short barrel, you'd be best served with a RCM (i have a 300 and 338 at my store). Just keep in mind you'd need factory ammo to hit published numbers, reloading will get you into the "hot" 30-06 range, not Win Mag. Hornady uses powders or possibly blends not available to the public.

Otherwise, take the easy road and get a 300 WSM. I think browning used to offer a 22 or 23 inch barrel. Could always buy a rifle and have a chop done on it

Brad,
Why?

You best have a supply of ammo or components or you’ll end up with a safe queen. Happy Trails

Rem are 2.9" long and M70 are 3.1" long. Most of the rifles with WSM feed issues were true short actions shoehorning a cartridge designed for guns with over 3" capability

Remington 700/7’s feed WSM’s like chit.

I have a (gasp) Browning A-Bolt in 300WSM with a 22" barrel. Handles good, shoots good, feeds good.

True. Early M70's did too.

Not really.

I have a M70 270 WSM in a McMillan carbon stock and really like it. If I wanted something with less than a 24" barrel I would look at a smaller capacity cartridge, like a 7-08 or a 6.5 Creedmoor. The 300 WSM can be snappy in a light rifle like the Tikka T3 Light. The 270 WSM I don't notice much difference in recoil from a 270 Win. unless I am doing long strings of 50+ off the bench.

For a short and light rifle the RCM might be a better match. With anything now line up some brass and components before taking the plunge.

I ended up with a model 7 in 7mm-08 and have one on the way in 300 SAUM. I really like the M77 compact green laminate and stainless, but they seem few and far between.

I've owned 5 300wsm and never had a feeding problem. But, none were Remingtons.

I have a model seven XCR in 300 wsm that feeds like butter but I don't doubt that they had their issues.

I have a 700 BDL SS 300 WSM, that the bolt open was hard as hell on. Got some advice about three years ago on here to take bolt a part. It had a piece of brass stuck in it. Removed it and it’s great now. I bought the gun used, and I bet the original owner had never cleaned it.

I agree. Brad mentions the 6.5 PRC, but that thing is a damn barrel burner from the word start...

I don’t know. I can find plenty of components for 300 WSM, and factory ammo here for the 270 WSM. Reloading components for the 270 WSM, well not so easy. I got 80 pieces of once fired brass from a forum member and with what I had and my stash of factory ammo, I am good. A round I said I’d never repaid for, i now reload for more that any other I own.

Me too

My stainless 338 RCM-PRC-LMNOP weighs about the same as a 30-30 model 94, holds 4 rounds down and launches 225 grain federal fusions to 2720 fps with 59 grains of reloader 16.

Completely compressing the factory trigger spring a half dozen times, brought the already crisp trigger to 2 lbs 2 ounces.

This little powerhouse is really just a short action 338-06.

Never smile too much about a dmn hunting rifle, but one hole 3-5 shot 100yd groups do make me smile.

I'll smile a little more when that walnut Hawkeye hunter stock arrives from Ruger, get rid of that darned plastic.

I have a couple of 700-270 WSM’s. They seem to feed fine.

I agree. However, when I ordered my Borden 300 WSM build, Mr. Borden failed to mention he would have an intermediate action coming out within a year. Still, I really like the Alpine action & it serves my purpose perfectly with my chosen load.

My next Borden build will be a 7 RSAUM.

I would not go as short as a 20" barrel on any of them without a can. Pick your action and then the cartridge. The WSMs feed fine in my Model 70s, the SAUM can also feed well in the Remington's. I have not tried the RCM but would assume they feed fine in the Rutger's.

I don't find any of them to beat the standard cartridges by any measurable amount. The SAUM are virtually the same as their respective AI cartridges and the RCM are similar with hand loads. The WSMs don't equal the belted magnums but any differences would not be discernible in the field.

My picks would be one of the 6.5s or 270s. These seem a better match for a shorter lighter rifle. The 300's start to get a noticeable amount of recoil in a light weight rifle. Muzzle blast starts to be an issue in much shorter than a 22-23" barrel. Just my preferences.

I like the 270 WSM in a M70 feather weight enough that I pulled the plug on a new actual feather weight barrel with a 1-8 twist. It may not best the 270 Win. by all that much but with heavier bullets it could be interesting. I think I can open the magazine to 3.2" if needed.

If building one now and I didn't have the others I think I would do the 6.5 PRM or more likely a 6.5 SAUM. This is like a short 6.5x270 AI which is a good place to be. Stock up on brass first though.

[quote=mainer_in_ak]My stainless 338 RCM-PRC-LMNOP weighs about the same as a 30-30 model 94, holds 4 rounds down and launches 225 grain federal fusions to 2720 fps with 59 grains of reloader 16.

Wow thats fast in a 20" 338 RCM I just break 2600 with 61 GR RL 17 and 225 GR Nosler partions or Accubonds. Standardized that load shoots great in a LH 338 RCM and a RH 338 RCM. Quite a rifle for a Leftie!

One of my favorite rifles is a custom 300 wsm and another one is my 7 wsm Montana. The 300wsm with 215g Berger hybrids at 2800 fps from a 24" barrel is a dragon slayer. The 300 wsm will also run 150g ttsx Barnes bullets at 3400 fps over superformance. Weve killed lots of elk with the 300 wsm and 180g accubonds at 3000 fps but I found the 200 NAB at 2900 fps to work better for me.

My 7 wsm will outperform my 7 rem mags with all bullet weights. I have another Montana in 270 wsm I thought of doing a 6.5 prc or 4s on but the more I think about it I may just do another 7 wsm but go 8 twist. The 8400 short mag action is a great platform for a short mag. Find a donor and just rebarrel it in a factory dupe fast twist in your favorite short mag.

However, I've had a few 700 bdl ss rifles in 7 saum and really regret selling both of them. The 7 saum is a great performer and well designed little case. The 7 wsm beats it by about 100 fps but the 7 saum just has something appealing to me about it.

Bb

For all youse who value the WSMs, go to Gunbroker - there's a bunch of 'em offered for sale and most are rather cheap... Just a tip - nuthin' more..

I have the 7mm WSM in an 1885 Winchester. May be the most accurate rifle I own excluding a Cooper and a couple of Christensen Arms. But to be truthful, there isn't a lot of difference in accuracy between the rifles. Haven't had any trouble finding brass yet, but haven't bought any in the last year either. I have had ABSOLUTELY no problem with feeding issues with the 1885 in this caliber.

If long range isn't a priority, don't count out the original short mag. 350 Remington Magnum, I can't imagine a better woods rifle than the Model Seven with 20 inch barrel. It's what I grab more often than not when heading into thick timber. Factory ammo of course is an issue if not reloading.

Got my first shorty last year, ruger 7 saum, really like it, shoots great, feels great, good rifle for the shiit weather we endure up here. 👍

This schit never ain't not fhuqking HILARIOUS,as The Paper Hat Brigade does their best. Hint. LAUGHING!

If only as per always,boolits matter wayyyyyyy more than headstamps. Hint.

RPM,Throat Geometry and COAL mechanically set that stage,none of which is subjective. Adding noise,recoil,weight,fhuqking up balance AND handling,while reducing rounds in the magwell,do NOT "increase" "effectiveness",if only to the chagrin and tears of Crying Karens everywhere. Doubly so,when sporting mechanically compromised glass,suspect mounting systems and Dog Schit boolits. Read that again. Now one more time. Hint. LAUGHING!

If/when speaking modest barrel length,264 Kreedmire Factory Fodder will crowd 2700fps with a .697BC. 'Course,few things are as unsettling to Crying Karens as a numerical aero form designator's Facts. Admittedly,the 264 Prick will grant an extra 215fps over the counter,with the same boolit and if that horns someone up,they'll laughingly sell it to you. Hint. Laughing!




It is hardly "daunting" to schlep a parcel chambered same,that will do it all and easily. Fact is,I've not assembled yet another one in but a coupla days. Mounting system is Skookum. Bullet steering mechanics Skookum. RPM,Throat Geometry and COAL Skookum. Balance/handling Skookum. (4rds) Smooching a .697BC in a blind mag is Skookum. 'Course it shoots rather WELL,given those mechanical constants too. Read that again. Now one more time. Hint. LAUGHING!



I reckon that's why Drooling CLUELESS Fhuqks go well outta their way to refrain boolit particulars. Being it's the only "move" they've "got". Hint. LAUGHING!

Coming full circle to the OP,the Model Seven is a bitter pill mechanically. If only because RPM,Throat Geometry and COAL mechanically set that stage,none of which is subjective. Doubly so,if/when talking Factory Fodder,that will all suck ass compared to the 264 Kreedmire 147 Factory Ammo. Pardon facts being so unsettling. Hint. LAUGHING!

Seven handles routinely suck ass,which is yet another bitter pill. Though it's hardly "daunting" to swap same out and even increase COAL ala AICS DBM,to help align mechanics for boolits. Don't forget to notch the feed ramp,for said clearance and radius the exhaust port too. Hint. Laughing!





Them mechanical improvements a given,it ALWAYS returns full circle back to boolits. ALL 264 Kreed's are 8" RPM as a minimum and despite the .199" SALAMI freebore,you can Smooch a .697BC in a binderless AICS SALAMI chamber. Hint. Laughing!



Soooooooooooo in retrospect,DO tell whatch'er gonna fling in said Seven's? Take your time and give it some thought,because there's NO way it ain't gonna be funnier than fhuqk. Understand that I'm talking Ruger ShamWow with a Reupold FUNNY! Hint. LAUGHING!

Bless your hearts for trying.

Hint.

LAUGHING!...............

Only because of the egg shaped chambers. Bought a 300 WSM 70 Fwt in '02, hard to chamber the last 1/8", factory or reloads. It went to Winchester/Browning 2 or 3 times. The last time it came back with the feed ramp dremeled out and a note not to send it back. It got traded off on something. A few years later I read about the chambers being wonky.

It FED from the mag just fine, just a hell of a time getting the bolt closed.

My god LarryO!!! I didn’t read a word or “gawk” a pic, appears your a little horned up??? That sure seems to be a lot of words and pics, for a lady that “doesn’t care”.... 😂😂

Crying Karen was nearly "brazen" enough to cite a boolit,but the Emotional Comfort of her Imagination and Pretend compelled Emoji's instead,to "harness" her Estrogen Levels. Hint.

LAUGHING!.................

I see the slobbering dumb fugg is trying to empress every one . the only thing he is good at is molesting his sister

44empty,

Now don't be too hard on her,if only because like you,she is doing her BEST...you "lucky" kchunt. Hint. Congratulations?!?

Fortunately for you,Imagination and Pretend are free,so you can "afford" to "contribute". "Empress" was rather fhuqking HILARIOUS,simply because you are TRYING so hard. Read that again. Now one more time. Hint. Laughing!



Pardon Ballistics 101 and the mechanics which align a rifle's aptitude,sailing so very far over your pointy head. Gals that "know" and "do" as "much" as you,will ALWAYS be best served by shutting the fhuqk up and taking notes. Here's to the MAGNIFICENT Hilarity of you being too fhuqking Stupid to "do" that "much". Hint. LAUGHING!

Bless your poor poor(literally) heart and give it another try,because you are doing "GREAT"!

Hint.

Laughing!................

Dude. Wtf did he say? Can't spell and always posts the same pics over and over. Hell we could all live in alaska and throw our rifles in the river if our standards were as low as his...

Oh, LarryO!!! Haha





Please “talk” to me about “boolits”... it’ll be funny, like always... haha

mjkchunt,

Swing for the fhuqking fence and cite any/all words that are "too big" for you and/or "too Technical" for your HILARIOUS "abilities"to "understand"...you 'lucky" kchunt. Hint. Congratulations?!?

As a HILARIOUS aside,do cite any/all Splendid Pixels you take "offense" at,given your HILARIOUS versions of "means","abilities" and "comprehension",if only to keep it "fair" for your next Hissy Fit and Snowflake Meltdown. There's ZERO fhuqking "need" for you to perpetually reiterate how many times a day you think about me,nor how you are glued to my EVERY fhuqking word,while gawking EVERY Splendid Pixel. It isn't like you could "do" for yourself! Let alone begin to fathom the magnitude. Read that again. Now one more time. Hint. LAUGHING!

Bless your poor poor(literally) heart and the "ability" to "nearly" "control" them RAGING Estrogen Levels.

P.S. and by the fhuqking way,it may "help" if you keep TRYING to "convince" yourself,that you "could too".

Hint.

LAUGHING!................




Crying Karen,

Pardon the poignant profundity of my influence,dictating your every "move"...you "lucky" kchunt. Hint. Congratulations?!?

You can almost type and punctuate on "your" very own. ALMOST! Hint. Laughing!

Bless your poor poor(literally) heart and them barbed wire "satisfactions" that are your's.

Hint.

LAUGHING!...................

LarryO!!! Thought you were gonna “talk” “boolits”. There’s some punctuation my lil gal friend.

This fuucker “knows” “headstamps” and “boolits”, more punctuation. 😂😂😂 oh and “lighting”!! Haha



Pardon the “redassery” coming soooo “easy”,👍

Just looking, there is some “serious “ bacon material on that neck/throat area!!! Haha 😂😂😘

Poor LarryO!! No wonder your a grumpy “biitch”. 😂😂

Crying Karen,

I'll feign my GREAT "surprise",that besides my dictating your EVERY thought and "move",that you are powerless in the refrain to keep pictures of your Man Lust Fantasies close to your heart...you "lucky" kchunt. Hint. Congratulations?!?

Like you could "understand" .505BC magfed Smooches,in a 8" RPM Bart' contour duped/shortened shank Montucky 18" 270,with just a subtle magbox shim slide,ejector/bolt stop shortening,wee bit of exhaust port massage,sound mounting system and Skookum glass?!? But you could always steal the pictures,as cameras are more than a bit "pricey" for you. Hint. LAUGHING!





In fairness "your" is a big word and your best bet is to simply copy/paste my spelling and punctuation,as you steal the pics. Note how I used said word correctly. Hint. LAUGHING!

Bless your poor poor(literally) heart,for doing the best you can,if only because your Retardation is fhuqking HILARIOUS.

Hint.

LAUGHING!................

LarryO!!! I’m waiting to get “learned” up on “boolits”!!! 😂😂 stay on task!!! Haha



Be advised, that’s a man, not a midget!! Haha

Crying Karen,

I'm not "obligated" to help the HELPLESS and you haven't the "means","abilities" or "comprehension" to even "begin" an "inkling"...you "lucky" kchunt. Hint. Congratulations?!?

Fortunately for you,Imagination and Pretend are free,so you can "afford" to "contribute",as you are forced to steal the rest. There's no slighting how Amazingly WELL founded your countless Insecurities are and it's funnier than fhuqk that you think about me,at a far greater than 100:1 ratio,of rounds you "shoot" in a year of your "Life". Read that again. Now one more time. See how easy it is for me to use "your",while you can't? Hint. Fhuqking LAUGHING!!!

I rather enjoy that you "think" your STUPIDITY is a "choice". Sweetheart,it's a Plight and them differences are more than a "touch" stark. "Luckily",you can consume your Do Nothing Dumbfhuqktitude,by Licking Windows and always craning a pencil neck from the bleachers,trying to see The Show. You "get" to mimic the Vernacular and Punctuation,because you KNOW how fhuqking HILARIOUSLY incapable you are! Hint. LAUGHING!

Bless your poor poor(literally) heart,for doing the best you can,if only because your Retardation is fhuqking HILARIOUS.

P.S. and by the way,what kind of "camera" is that?

Hint.

LAUGHING!..............

LarryO!! Just got off “work”, gonna go clean the chicken coup and mow the lawn!! Rough duty.. still waiting to get educated about “boolits”!! Haha



Xoxoxoxo 😘

Anyone know wtf he is saying? He spells like he thinks...

mjkchunt,

She said she's taking her hair net and mask off from her Minimum Wage "Job",then is gonna try to drink her way to "happiness"...the "lucky" kchunt. Hint. Congratulations?!?

"Your" is a VERY "big" word for her and it's mean of you to tease her. Hint. Fhuqking LAUGHING!

Bless your poor poor(literally) heart,for doing your BEST though!

Might I suggest you follow suit with punctuation?!? Ooooopsie!!!!! Too fhuqking late!



Hint.

LAUGHING!...............

Hard to beat a properly twisted 6.5 prc/saum, 7 wsm or the 300 wsm for an all around light weight package that kills well out of its weight class. Have had them all and currently use a custom 6.5 saum and 300 wsm for most of my hunting.

sorry, I cant help I dont speak inbred

just inbred slobber . a waste of good air

Mallard,

Having shot/got everything cited,the 7 Whizzum slaps THE fhuqk outta the others. You reap a .838 BC at 2800fps,from modest length barrels and the performance to recoil ratio,is simply OFFA the fhuqking charts. Hint.



264's cain't begin to muster the BC's and if you go there in 30cal.,velocity suffers,while adding a fair dose of needless recoil. That assuming the requisite COAL latitude. Hint.

Though I've a 30" 300 Whizzum that's a hammer with 212/25's,but ain't exactly Montucky-esque in handling "virtues".(grin). Though I have 'em in more "traditional" length too. Hint.

Sorry for the 20yr old pics. Hint. LAUGHING!




At least The Droolers can nod their pencil necks and say that they "understand",as it ALL flies past and they steal the pics and prose. Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!....................

LarryO!!! Ooooopsie!!! Haha


Someone say sumthin about “boolits”??

LarryO!!! So many parcels gettin dropped off!!! Haha


Perhaps a case of Winchester Turkey loads?? 😂😂😘

LarryO!!! Flossed kodiak island red on the “treager”... “you like that punctuation “?? 😂😂😂

.............................................DOES VERY WELL...Here is a link for ya. I happen to own the same identical rifle bought new back in 2007......

https://www.gunblast.com/Ruger_FrontierRifle.htm

Regardless of which rifle, you can use this as an example of what a 300 WSM can do from a shorty tube.

Crying Karen,

Despite your "heralded" departure from this Thread,I am VERY "surprised" you thought about me sooooo many times on your way home...you "lucky" kchunt. Hint. Congratulations?!?

If only as a "surprise" to you,I simply consume fish as they are caught(by me),rather than freezer burned 1000's of miles away. Hint. LAUGHING!

Bless your poor poor(literally) heart,for doing your best though!

Hint.

LAUGHING!..................







DumbSqueeze,

Your "special" 300 Whizzum load(s) will almost keep pace with a 264 Kreedmire and Factory Ammo...you "lucky" kchunt. Hint. Congratulations?!?




Except for wind drift advantages starting well inside the 50yd line. Impact velocity starting at the 175yd line. Hint. LAUGHING!

Bless your poor poor(literally) heart,your "info" was wayyyyyyyyyy better when you were fhuqking dead.

Hint.

LAUGHING!..................

LarryO!!! The dumbest of fuucks, this is in the “hunting rifle” section, key word being, “hunt”, get it, “hunt”?? Not “longrange” forum. 😂😂😘



Mt Rainier in the background there, as you can tell, I broke the big “camera” out, with the “tripod”....

PS, I haven’t read a word of your posts in months, but dig the effort you put forth, along with the ballistic tables, I card absolutely nothing about. Haha

Crying Karen,

I never cited a lethality "distance" and simply spoke mechanical Facts,if only to your Window Licking chagrin...you "lucky" kchunt. Hint. Congratulations?!?

If a "hunt" means barbed wire,you are on an "Adventure". Both in your HILARIOUS "Diary" and your "commute". Hint. LAUGHING!

I AM "convinced" however,that you "don't follow" my EVERY word and gawk EVERY Splendid Pixel,as you do your "best". Might I suggest Imaginary Pretend Ignore,or perhaps going FULL DumbSqueeze and dying,to lend "absolute" "credence" to your HILARIOUS "claims"? Hint. Fhuqking LAUGHING!!!

You are THE Moth,drawn to THE Flame and are powerless in my allure. I simply control your speech,text,mannerisms,punctuation and every thought/move,if only for starters. Read that again. Now one more time. Hint. LAUGHING!

Bless your poor poor(literally) heart,for doing your best though!

At least you can "afford" Emoji's.

Hint.

LAUGHING!...............

LarryO!!! You gonna talk “boolits”, or flap your gums?? Haha 😂😂

So the weather is what makes Stick such a fugged up individual? Those nice day pictures are only a few a year? Paradise? As for salmon I like crappie better, never been a real fan of most trout other than Brookies and Browns (I know salmon family). Pike are good enough though bony. Have to say though I will take Wyoming over Craig anyday. But then now I live in Texas, lots of friendly people, plenty of shooting weather, fishing is just about to be awesome. Pretty sure Stick would have a hard time here, his mouth would cause him trouble.

I like me some Space Dust, too! But that schit gives me an instant headache. 🤕

Saw several bags plus or WSM brass at our local Sportsman's Warehouse yesterday...

Ended up going a little deep into the short mags. Bought a 7SAUM model seven, 300SAUM in a 700, and have a 300rcm ruger compact magnum stainless 16.5” barrel laminate stock on the way.

Possibly you will appreciate the 700 action more than the 7, not due to the cartridge.

Space dust is a good and cheap alternative to Zombie Dust.

I have some Double Crooked Tree that's 2 yrs old. Sucks azz to wait til deer season to drink ( celebrate a successful hunt ).

The 700 cycles much smoother than the model seven. If it doesn’t smooth out with use it may get culled.