Mrs Blacktailer's Kimber SuperAmerica has never shot up to my expectations of consistent MOA accuracy. The best it has ever done is about 2MOA with a variety of bullets and powders. I have been tinkering with it for more than 15 years and am pretty well convinced that it needs a new barrel.
I have been through the Montana Tinkering, have rebedded it and switched scopes and mounts to no avail. While 2 MOA is adequate for her hunting needs, being a rifle loonie it bugs me that I can't get it to shoot better.
So first off, I am asking for bullet recommendations in the 130gr range to try. So far I have tried 130, 150, and 165 TSX and TTSX, 130 Speer and 130 Hammers. I'm thinking of maybe Accubonds next. BTW it has a very long throat and bullets can't come anywhere near the lands and still fit in the magazine.
If that doesn't get it done who makes Kimber contour barrels and if I go that route maybe make it a 260Rem or 7-08? I would like to keep the bullets on the light side because of recoil.

Lilja does Kimber contours.

I've used Lilja on all my Kimbers that I've rebarreled and they've been great shooters.

Not doubting you have went through everything, but I haven't been around one that wouldn't do MOA or better with the factory barrel. A couple have been picky about loads though.

Holster Feelers and Start At The Fhuqking Start. Hint.

1) Sounds 308 Winny-ish,but pinpoint same. Hint
2) What scopes/bases have been used? Hint.
3) Next time give the fore base fastener ALL of your fhuqking attention,as you've undoubtedly dead headed fasteners into the barrel shank. Hint.
4) Whistle some FGMM through it,if only as a introductory baseline,after ascertaining the above. Hint.
5) I'm down with rebarreling as per whim,but NEVER without Mechanics being the focus. That is impossible,with the chamberings cited. Hint.

If you listen,this schit is fhuqking EASY...if you don't,you'll stay mired. Hint.

Thank me later.

Just sayin'.

Hint....................

2 MOA is the best that can be done after all the usual accuracy tweaks? Time to rebarrel!

2005 thread on KoO issues.

I wouldn’t assume anything until I had checked boxes on everything else that could be wrong. Use thread at your own discretion.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/450854


🦫

FGMM = Federal Gold Metal Match ammo.

FGMM = Federal Gold Medal Match

Thanks for the translation. I haven't shot a factory rifle load (except for 223/5.56) for 25 years and that was just so I could get the brass.

It is fhuqking Fascinatingly HILARIOUS,that folks start HELP! Threads and go outta their way,to fhuqk the obvious up. Hint.

1) Roger that
2) You "fixed"/"determined" NOTHING,in said approach. Which was a given,prior to reply. Hint.
3) I remain dubious. Hint.
4) Folks who actually shoot,answered that obvious. Hint.

Act "surprised",when you calling the shots,continues not to be worth a fhuqk. Hint.

The mechanical corrections are both obvious and easy,for them inclined to holster Hurt Feelers. Pardon my simply knowing in advance. Hint..............

Read that thread, looked kinda familiar except I saw something I do not understand. Dogzapper mentioned "shoulder mirage" when referring to his efforts to help out a Canadian college professor. I can't say I've ever heard of shoulder mirage. What was he talking about???

I’ve never heard of “Shoulder Mirage” either. I know varying the shoulder pressure, from shot to shot, can cause differences in hits on a target. Mirage is a commonly know occurrence in certain shooting situations, but “shoulder mirage” I have no fûck’n idea.

🤷🏽‍♀️🦫

I wondered the same.

Thanks for the tip on Lilja. I knew somebody duplicated Kimber profiles but couldn't remember who.

They also make a factory contour that has just a little more weight at the end. 1 or 2 ounces, feels great imho. Less wispy.

Spence

Because of an issue I had with the factory barrel, I had a PAC-NOR stainless steel 280 AI barrel installed on my Kimber 84L. They contoured the barrel to replicate the factory barrel’s dimensions. Best of all, this rifle now shoots-lights out.

"Shoulder mirage" is that last glimpse over your shoulder of your wife's angry face as you head out the door to the range for the third straight day.

If you're not careful to maintain concentration, that last image will hurt your shooting because you know you're going to be getting a big 'ol earful when you get home at the end of the day.

BTDT!
Here are a few images of the bore and crown. Pretty ugly. BTW I have also run Tubb's Final Finish through it in the past and it still looks this bad. The crown could be fixed but these are throughout the bore.

I did. Had them do a mod84m. It eliminates the taper once clear of the stock.

been their done that i wont own any thing that has Kimber on it!

I’d set that trigger spooky-light for testing purposes. Most of my personal issues shooting my very accurate (except for ME) Pac-Nor barreled Kimber are traceable to right hand technique and consistent trigger press.

Then jack it back up to wherever you want it for hunting.

Rock has a modified Kimber contour as well if they ever get back to taking orders.

Kimber lovers rarely respond to these threads.

I can fix that.

I'll be retiring in the next year or so (God willing and the creek don't rise) and I'll enjoy not getting up at 4:15 every workday morning to begin with, but I'll hang out here at the house continually the first month and be as big a PITA as I can possibly be. After that it will be all smiles for The Her each time I head out the door.

Thanks for the explanation...you may have shaved a quarter inch or more off my future groups.

Looks bad.

How about a trip to JES for conversion to .358 Winchester?

I think mainly because there’s lots of previous threads on here already covering Kimbers enough that they figure they don’t need to anymore.

15 years ago, Kimber was making their own barrels. During that time period they had some QC issues which is what most of their reputation was based off. Some barrels shot but they did have quite a few duds. After Kimber moved to Bergara and Criterion barrels they more or less stopped having those issues.

It sounds like the OP has a Kimber made barrel which could quite well be a dud. To double check, open the bolt and shine a light on the breech face looking at the extractor groove. B = bergara, C = criterion and nothing means Kimber.



Benchmark barrels is another option.

Yes, and they will do a light contour cut stainless barrel.

Do you know if they have a montana contour (or modified) in their system?

Those pics have me wondering just how much a re-crowning would fix.

What Stick said are the first things I would do.

Also, find the old "kimber montana preflight checklist" thread. Lots of good info there

I'm with Holston though, that barrel looks rough

You buy that rifle new or used ?

I believe they have an 84m contour which matches the Kimber contour. I’ve personally only ever rebarreled one Kimber as I had two in the same caliber and really wanted a 338-06 which I did in a modified #2.





I agree.

Ok so it has a crappy crown that going to fix all the rough spots in the rest of the bore? A new good barrel is the answer not a rebore the barrel steel don't look that good period....mb

Pretty obvious why Kimber is gonna punt on the rifle game. Hopefully their 1911’s are a lil betta.. 😂

Schit rings and schit scopes are not a good start.

Nor is a shiit rifle…

I thought Larry gave Kimber the thumbs up.

LarryO probably isn’t the best advice giver…. Nothing like spending over a grand snd having to fuuck with it… 😂

Bout like buying a brand new rig with the check engine light on. 😎👍😘

Lilja is your answer on this situation.

I buy Tikkas 😀

To answer a few questions:
Bought used about 20 years ago. It is a NY rifle.
Been through the pre flight and Montana Tinkering threads as well as rebedding.
Would rebore but looking to go smaller with this, leaning towards a 7-08 since I don't have one.
Knock Leupolds all you want but these scopes have been on other rifles where they were proven and have gone on to others where they still work. Same with mounts.
As stated I have been tinkering with this for about 15 years and after exhausting anything I could think of to do wanted to get any other easy/cheap suggestions before buying a new barrel.
Don't remember if I had ever run the borescope down this tube before but after doing it realized the barrel is crap. The pics are just a few representative shots, the bore looks like that from one end to the other.

Thanks for the tips and suggestions, it's rebarrel time!

Don't second guess a new premium barrel. Absolutely nothing wrong with upgrading the barrel regardless. I had a gunsmith tell me once "you can make a good gun shoot great, but you'll never make a bad gun shoot good."

You're not going to turn a 2" gun into a 1/2" gun with stupid tweaks unless something was seriously wrong like broken scope, rings, or loose screws, etc.

Certainly no metallurgy phd here but the interior of the barrel looks as though it has inclusions of some sort. If that is the case, and is the downstream cause of your accuracy issue, you’re headed toward a new barrel.

Looks like classic rust damage to me

I guess I lucked out with my Montana I bought used on the campfire a few years ago.

Oh ya, that’s a dream! Nice

I've never understood the Kimber thing... they aren't cheap and you buy it brand new *knowing* it's a project. I would say I don't understand why Kimber didn't just address some of the issues, but that answer is easy: because people buy them anyway.

For sure, never understood it myself

Bingo. I’ve been happy with pacnor/Lilja/rocks on Kimbers.

Yeah I know, I know but it's pretty and she likes it.

Awesome pic! 👍

Time to put a new snout on it.

You mean she shot that with a Kimber? No way! She must have been sitting right on top of it because you can't hit the broadside of a barn at 10' with a Kimber.

That's a nice one, she did a great job.

I'm convinced! Any gunsmith recommendations? Would like to find someone in AZ that I can collaborate with on this but open to suggestions.

What barrel ya goin with?

Yeah, that’s worth 700 bucks.

Get that woman a new barrel - post haste!

Did a way back purchase on a new Kimber 84 Varminter in 204 Rug. Nice looking rifle.

Had a card hanging off the trigger guard when I got it that said SUB MOA GUARANTEE. Gave me a warm tingling inside.

It did shoot SUB MOA ~ of a barn door. All the usual stuff tried to correct it ~ Throwing $300 in fixes at a $1000 dollar box gun, Meh whatever, had to try.

Nothing helped, until I dropped a PAC-NOR SuperMatch barrel on it. Awesome rifle now.

I caught a bad Proof Carbon barrel on a build. Jammed through everything imaginable to correct that as well. The builder came to the same conclusion, that it was just a bad barrel. New Proof slapped on the build, made it the shooting demon it was supposed to be.

Figure if you touch enough rifles, you will eventually find a lemon or two. While most can be corrected with fundamental changes, proper bedding, scope rings/bases, solid optics and tweaking loads. Sometimes the tube is just a hoser, and needs to be made gone.

I feel bad for the occasional rifle buyer, who hits the bad luck lottery on a rifle they had been wanting to own for a long time.

🦫

What I would like to do is find a good smith and see which one he likes.

All true. My last 4 barrels are Pac-Nor, PN, PN, and Bartlein and have all been rock stars. I’m due for a dud. It’s lucky I’ve been getting good ones, because I’ve been doing my own chambering, so I would’ve suspected an error on my end over the likelihood of a bad high-end barrel.

What happened to me was kind of the opposite. The PN tube on my short-action “Sendero Lite” 7 WSM build, the 2nd rifle I chambered after my .223AI, is an astonishingly good barrel. I swear it even corrects my called flyers, lol.... I’d heard of barrels this accurate, but never experienced it. That’ll ruin you for just “good”.

I totally disagree. I think she has a very pretty nose. Meany.

At over a dozen kimbers owned, not one has needed tuning in any way.

Seems like Shaen or Kevin Weaver could handle that project I’d think.

You gotta ask for a 338 Federal to get a .358

I have owned more than a few Kimbers and never had a bad one. I just flat like the ergonomics, especially the Montana's.

The last one I owned was a Montana 84L in 270 Win. It shot great off the bench with proper light rifle technique. Out hunting, the rifle just would not settle. Shot a couple deer with it and it went down the road.

I got back into the Kimber game with a used Montana 8400 in 270 Win. Slapped a Leupold 3.5-10 on it and headed to range after making sure the barrel was clean, the action screws torqued and trigger right where I want it.

I checked 4 loads I had on hand. 100gr NAB, 130gr NBT, 130gr GMX and 130gr TSX. The only load the rifle did not like was the 130gr GMX. The other.

100gr NAB: average group 0.97 @3230 fps
130gr NBT: average group 0.76 @3053fps
130gr TSX: average group 1.02 @3076fps

My latest is a Montana 84M in 338 Federal. Did the same thing as above, cleaned the barrel, torqued the action screws and checked the trigger.
Going to the range this weekend to run a few rounds through it. I do not have standard loads like I do with the 270 Winchester. So I am starting from scratch with this cartridge. I fully expect this Kimber to shoot like all the others I have had. If it does not, a new barrel will be put on post haste. Heavier contour of course.

I am sure this rifle will have the same issue settling down for the shot out hunting, but I will deal with it. This rifle is going to be used mostly for rattling set ups in thick cover and covering lots of ground in the Black Hills. Shots will be close, typically 40-60 yards or so.

I would give it one more try since your a hand loader....try Cutting Edge Bullets get 100gr, Edge Flat Base might be surprised I've shot a lot of game using that bullet and in several guns that didn't shoot very good it was a great improvement....
The wife will like it also in the light weight Kimber it is very pleasant to shoot....most animals will be ....DRT....
I shoot the CEB 100gr. Flat Base Raptor in my Kimber it went from a 2" rifle to just over 1"....sure there not cheep but really how many times do you shoot a big game rifle....

Sometimes I think it’d be easier to have bad taste, too.

You don't say.

My Montana came thru with sub-moa proof targets, shot with 3 different loads, and I get similar accuracy. It hits where I aim in the field, that's all I need.

The reason they sell is because not all Kimbers are “projects”.
Even if it doesn’t shoot great, you have a controlled round feed action with three position safety and a good quality synthetic stock to build off of.
Check action prices and stock prices and you can see why people are willing to buy a kimber.

Kimber builds kitschy stuff. I wouldn’t count on anything from them being better.

That’s like buying a brand new Jeep for $40,000+ and rebuilding it from the ground up as a starter kit. Jeeps are kitschy these days too.

No different than buying an M700 that needs a $150 trigger right out of the gate. 😝

I guess I have the same luck as you with ALL the limbers I’ve had too.

You bitching or braggin?

I can afford whatever I want... tikkas for the win.

I have had my worst luck with Rugers. I can think of four that did not shoot to expectations, and a tang safety broke on another.

From my experience they are junk. 100% failure rate. Never had one that I contemplated keeping. Talk about bad luck with a brand.

So I can see how that could happen with any brand. Just has not been my experience with Kimbers.

Rugers like to be very clean to produce good groups, clean mine every 20 rounds and get 1/2 inch groups.

Bingo.

I guess if you call schit stocks and plastic mags winning….you go!

Name a time a tikka stock or mag failed you in the field. I think magpul and Glock settled that argument years ago.

You can also get a wood/blued tikka, and a metal mag. Why would you though?

GIve Shaen a call, he will do you right.

I don't doubt this as it happens sometimes. Mine worst were Remington products, but oddly Ruger has been good for me and my Hawkeye compact 338RCM is really the best hunting rifle I own and its about perfect. I've only got one Kimber so I dont know how they are on average.

Remington's are #2 on the list, frozen triggers, broken extractors. Never had one accidental discharge, or a bolt fall off. Gave up on them ten plus years ago.

It took 10 shots to sight in, and one shot to kill a buck.

range report 200 yards 10-2-2018

Kimber 84L 280 AI
2" 3 shot group 1" right

Oooh I like that rifle.

Looks like you wanted considerably more comb?

I had to raise my Montana comb about 3/8" to properly view thru the scope. An earlier 84M Classic was fine as it came. The Montana stocks seem less full in the comb than the wood stocks.

Went to the range today to shoot my Kimber Montana 338 Federal. Found some 180gr NAB factory loads.

Avg velocity was 2770fps through 20 rounds. Accuracy was not good and velocity spread was too high.

5 shot groups showed 3 in an inch but two flyers in each group opened them up to 3 plus inches. Not surprising with the extreme spread and high standard deviation. Light barrels usually do not tolerate this very well.

Will try some reloads, check runout etc. If I have a bad Kimber, a new barrel will be ordered post haste. Love the stock ergonomics and the lightweight CRF action. I am absolutely positive that a heavier contour, fluted for weight savings and threaded will perform fantastic. Having a great machinist/gunsmith helps.

After reading all the Kimber rants here over 10yrs ago, I wasn’t gonna buy one, too expensive, blah blah blah. Then a buddy bought a Montana, then another and another and they all shot great… so I took the plunge and bought one, then another and another and… they ALL (7 total owned, still have 6 and about to buy another) have shot great with minimal effort. I honestly can’t say the same for Winchester, Remington, Ruger or even the beloved Tikka’s. I’ve tried a variety, but haven’t found any one that I like better or that has served me better. Still have a few Winchester 70’s and a few Rem 700’s too, but my Kimbers are my favorites overall - as someone else mentioned they have a great action, 3 position safety, and stock (can’t say that for any of the others).

My first Kimber was a Classic in 300WSM, just after the WSM rounds came out. IIRC it was SN 323. It was a great shooting rifle, and I'm sure I have owned another 15-20 more in all varieties since that one.

Over all that time, I only had one rifle that didn't impress me early on regarding accuracy (but to be fair, that rifle never got a fair test . . . had less than 25 rounds through it when I sold it . . . I had already decided I really didn't need a 270WSM).

They have all served me well, and beyond that, they have such great ergos. Nothing else feels as good to me, and in the price range, no other company offers a quality synthetic stock like the Montana, or a sleek finely checkered walnut stock like the Classic.

I've got a pretty kimber in 300 wm that has killed two elk and 5 or 6 deer. It is a stunner at the range and I wasn't afraid to shoot out to 500 yds with it. I slid down several rock screes and got banged up pretty good. I got a lighter 300wsm and haven't really taken it out of the safe for 7 years. Its too dinged up to sell and I hate getting rid of rifles that work, so will keep it. My bride can get rid of it when I die.

I too must be in the "lucky" group.....

My Kimber 8400 325 WSM Super America shot factory Winchester Supreme 200 Grain Ballistic Silvertips into 5/8 - 3/4" groups. A buddy I bought it from took it to Africa and shot 13 African plains game animals with 14 shots.

My Kimber 280AI Mountain Ascent shoots 1/2 - 3/4" groups with 3 different handloads.

NO ISSUES with either rifle.

Dropped it off at Phoenix Custom Rifles yesterday. Keith told me when I get it back it will stack bullets on top of each other.
Going to become probably the only 6.5 Creedmoor Super America in existence.

What barrel ya goin with Blacktailer?

tagged

I'm not saying they failed. I'm saying the stock have the ergos of milk crate and I don't like plastic mags.

I've not had a kimber fail me and they fit me like a glove.

I apologize if this has been asked already, but when did Kimber go to Bergara and Criterion barrels? I have a .257 Roberts I bought 4 years ago that does 1.5"-3" groups. I got it from Euro Optics and from talking to them it sounded like it was made well before I bought it. It does consistently shoot 1" with Hammer Hunters however. Rebarreling may be the way to go.

Jud,
I'm leaving that up to Keith. He builds a lot of competition rifles so it depends on what he finds among his favorites that we can get delivery on. Possibly Bartlein or Benchmark or a few others that are lesser known but he has had good experience with

Copy sure you’ll be happy bud. 👍