My son is graduating 8th grade in June and as my dad did with me at that time, I am going to buy him a new rifle. I want a "do all" North American game rifle. So .270, 30-06, or 308 are my choices. Leaning towards a 30-06. He has a 223 and 243. I'm partial to Ruger M77's but could be talked into anything. I'm looking at Remington's 700 American Wilderness Rifle. Thoughts on this? Has anyone shot one? Accurate? Christensen Arms is on my radar too. My budget is $1200. A few of my friends have Kimber's, but they don't seem to accurate. I'm not looking for sub MOA out of the box, but maybe better than 1.5" groups at 100 yards. Any advise on this would be very much appreciated.
Thank you
Take your son to the gun shop, and let him pick out the rifle.
That's a thought...
He has expensive taste though :>)
That's a thought...
He has expensive taste though :>)
But he'll keep it for sixty years because "it's from Dad" and pass it along to one of his kids.
He still has a lot of growing to do, he might be more comfortable in a compact now and a full size in a few years. For a kid 14, I would consider 7mm-08 or 308. Tikka T3 is hard to beat, the compact has a 20" tube, the regular 22". I personally would lean to the 7mm-08, the.308 is fine for under 400yds and cheaper to shoot. 7mm-08 just is a little more flat shooting.
He still has a lot of growing to do, he might be more comfortable in a compact now and a full size in a few years. For a kid 14, I would consider 7mm-08 or 308. Tikka T3 is hard to beat, the compact has a 20" tube, the regular 22". I personally would lean to the 7mm-08, the.308 is fine for under 400yds and cheaper to shoot. 7mm-08 just is a little more flat shooting.
He's 150# Defense and Offensive lineman. He can hold his own.
Wait till shortactionsmoker turns loose with the Barrett special edition 6.5 creedmoor and buy him that. As a special edition, he may appreciate it more than a run of the mill Remington or other brand.
I carry my father's guns and my grandfather's guns. They matter more to me than anything I ever bought new.
IMO......A New Haven, Winchester Model 70 in 30-06. Great safety, great trigger, and proven through time. You may even get “lucky” and find one in stainless! memtb
I like weird rounds and my current do it all is a 6.5 wsm. Easy single pass of 270 WSM to neck down and away you go. I am gettin 3285 fps with a 147 from my 26” barrel. Recoil isn’t much and outside of maybe brown bears up close there is nothing in North America I wouldn’t use it on without worry.
There happens to be a really nice semi custom R77 Hawkeye stainless with 24” barrel on gunbroker for $1k buy now. Guy says he gets almost 3400 fps with 120 TSX (which should not be pushing it at all) and has 200 brass. I was thinking hard on adding it to my safe but wouldn’t be upset at all if you snagged it for your boy.
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/755596251
Damn you Matt, I'm just gonna have to get a donor..... that purple swirly I s what I ordered for my 6.5 short build
If he likes the ruger, keep it simple and get him another one. Maybe an older tang safety. Theres enough of an assortment of ruger 77's out there, that im sure you can find the exact model he wants. I agree on 30-06 though..
I would definitely let him pick out the rifle. He needs something that fits and balances well for him.
My father gave me a 30-06 for deer season when I was in 9th grade. I love and still have that rifle and the 30-06 is still one of my favorite cartridges. However, I think I would have been better off back then had he got me something with a little less recoil like a 270, 7mm-08, 308, etc. Funny thing is if he had ask me, the 14 year old kid would have insisted on a 30-06.
Yes, let him pic. I'm a real "feel" guy, if it fits and feels good, your gtg.
I don't know if I would spend that much for 8th grade graduation, after all that is not the end of the education march. I taught 8th grade for 27 years and I saw a lot of boys who thought they were grown at that time. Just my opinion, but buy him a reasonable priced rifle for this graduation with the promise of a really nice rifle for high school graduation and a similar item for college graduation if he chooses that route.
As for which rifle and caliber, a good Ruger, Winchester, Remington, Tikka, etc. would work fine. For caliber, anything in the 6.5 or 7mm range. My pick would probably be a 7mm-08 or 6.5 CM.
I think if I was in his postition and me being pretty young,
that whatever my dad thought was best for me would make
me appreciate it the most.
Get him a 77 and I'm sure it will work for life.
That's a thought...
He has expensive taste though :>)
Put a limit on what you will pay and if he wants something more expensive than that he can make up the difference. The rifle will be a gift from Dad plus he will have some of his sweat equity into the purchase.
Let him pick the cartridge though. Chances are he will pick what you suggest or already have, but I remember as a lad the fun of poring over ballistics and rifle configurations trying to pick what would be the best rifle and cartridge for me.
I’d buy him a Remington 700 BDL in any 3 of those calibers and then get him a GOOD scope ($500-700 scope budget).
He still has a lot of growing to do, he might be more comfortable in a compact now and a full size in a few years. For a kid 14, I would consider 7mm-08 or 308. Tikka T3 is hard to beat, the compact has a 20" tube, the regular 22". I personally would lean to the 7mm-08, the.308 is fine for under 400yds and cheaper to shoot. 7mm-08 just is a little more flat shooting.
He's 150# Defense and Offensive lineman. He can hold his own.
SS tikka 30-06, still one of the most versatile rounds around. Few rifles today seem as consistent out of the box as tikka. I know of a new sako A7 30-06 in the Flathead for around $1k, nice rifle but longer and heavier than the tikka.
[quote=alwaysoutdoors]I’d buy him a Remington 700 BDL in any 3 of those calibers and then get him a GOOD scope ($500-700 scope budget
This- my dad got me a Remington 700 BDL SS in .30-06 when I was 13, and it’d be the last gun I give up. I wish it wasn’t SS because he has a regular BDL in .30-06 that he’s used for over 40 years, but I wouldn’t change a thing about it other than that. As many other loonies know, it’s great fun to play with different rifles but if someone shows up to camp with a well worn .30-06, you probably don’t have to worry about their shooting abilities, for some reason. 😱😱😱
TC Venture Weathershield or Tikka Superlight in 30-06. TC has a $75 rebate till the end of March (I think).
thats hard to say does he like wood or synthetic....stainless or blued
maybe pick up a new remington adl and along the way let him order a mcmillan in the colors he wants ....that would add a little more to making it a special rifle for him and you
Tikka would be the way I’d go if you like a combination of accuracy & carryable weight...
I have a Kimber and have found it more accurate than I can shoot from field positions. While I like from-the-bench accuracy something that carries nicely in the field and does well from field positions is better it’ll get more field time than boat anchors.
Sneak a couple hundred more in there and get him a Barrett Fieldcraft in 6.5 creedmoor or 7mm-08. You can always borrow it. It's a much higher quality rifle than most mentioned. It's as close in production as you can get to a $3700 NULA which is a dream hunting rifle.
To my mind it's extremely hard to beat the Winchester M70 or the Ruger M77 Mk2.
Both are within your budget. Both are "Mauser reliable".
Both are usually sub-MOA accurate.
Both can be had in various option as far as stocks and barrel weights go.
And in the case of the M77 Mk2, you can get it in Left hand if you want.
a fieldcraft with the 14 inch lop may be an issue ....I know it is for me
a fieldcraft with the 14 inch lop may be an issue ....I know it is for me
How tall is the boy? I was 6' in the 9th grade.
Have it cut down. I can't imagine it would be that difficult.
a fieldcraft with the 14 inch lop may be an issue ....I know it is for me
How tall is the boy? I was 6' in the 9th grade.
Have it cut down. I can't imagine it would be that difficult.
5'10"
Times sure change, I though I was the shiz when I got a Marlin 336 in.35 Remington for my 14th birthday and I know it cost more like $ 140.00 back in 1974. I hope your son knows how fortunate he is!
I got a savage 99 in 308 winchester when I graduated from 8th grade. Not long after i took it ellk hunting and shot a bull elk. It was the largest elk processed at that store and i won a Remington 700ADL in 30-06. Might consider a Savage 99 for good luck.
I have and love the .270 and .30-06, but your kid already uses two short action cartridges and the .308 Win is a damned capable round. However, I do agree let him pick it out, give him a budget as suggested and let him figure it out.
All great replies and advise. Still leaning towards a M77 but as stated several times here, will let him decide.
Really appreciate all of this guys. My son is taking High School courses in 8th grade and still pulling straight A's. He must take after his mother because he sure didn't get his study habits from his old man! It's well deserved to say the least...
I don't know if I would spend that much for 8th grade graduation, after all that is not the end of the education march. I taught 8th grade for 27 years and I saw a lot of boys who thought they were grown at that time. Just my opinion, but buy him a reasonable priced rifle for this graduation with the promise of a really nice rifle for high school graduation and a similar item for college graduation if he chooses that route.
As for which rifle and caliber, a good Ruger, Winchester, Remington, Tikka, etc. would work fine. For caliber, anything in the 6.5 or 7mm range. My pick would probably be a 7mm-08 or 6.5 CM.
Good idea. I also concur with the 7-08, or cm. There are no flies on the .308, either. It is a proven performer.
I am not a fan of long-action rifles anymore, but that is a personal decision.
Might want him to look at the Sako A7's. Hard to beat the out of the box accuracy plus the reliability of the Sako. The Tikkas would allow him to pick between synthetic or wood stocks. Just bought a Tikka Forest for my wife in 25-06, she loves the gun and the looks of it.
I’d go with the Tikka in 30-06 or even 300WSM if elk was on the menu since he already has enough gun for deer hunting. My grandson is the same age, a big kid and the 30-06 is a piece of cake for him now and he doesn’t mind my 300 Weatherby but we started almost 2 years ago shooting light 110 grain sissy loads and worked up until he was confident. I love my old tang safety Ruger in 7 mm that I bought at 18 but the synthetic stocks make more sense to me these days.
You can’t beat a surprise but I’d take him into a big gun shop and let him try out several rifles for fit and feel so you know what he likes.
IMO......A New Haven, Winchester Model 70 in 30-06. Great safety, great trigger, and proven through time. You may even get “lucky” and find one in stainless! memtb
If you lean this way, I have a NH SS Classic 7mm Rem Mag with Boss and limbsaver I'm going to cut loose. PM me if interested.
I would definitely let him pick out the rifle. He needs something that fits and balances well for him.
My father gave me a 30-06 for deer season when I was in 9th grade. I love and still have that rifle and the 30-06 is still one of my favorite cartridges. However, I think I would have been better off back then had he got me something with a little less recoil like a 270, 7mm-08, 308, etc. Funny thing is if he had ask me, the 14 year old kid would have insisted on a 30-06.
Gave my son an 06 when he was like 14.. that is what he wanted...
since I hand load, I loaded it down to 30/30 speeds with a 125 grain bullet...
now he is 23... and somewhere around the time he graduated high school, we upgraded the
load to a 30/40 speed and upgraded to a 150 grain ballistic tip instead...
and that is pretty much where he wants it...
he still thinks factory 06 is way too much recoil...
tried to talk him into a 260 Rem as I hunt with that.. but he had to have an 06, due to the name and history
of the round...
The rifle I gave him was a Browning A Bolt I bought new in 92... for like $299 after deer season in MN..
but that is the rifle he wanted since he had used it before...
Get him this
https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/12711213/Searchpage/1/Main/868242/Words/%2Bxcr/Search/true/re-rem-700-30-06-xcr-ii#Post12711213
30-06 would be my choice.It's just more versatile With the wide range of bullets available.How well the rifle fits him is important.Get him a rifle with a good recoil pad and a scope with about 4" of eye relief and he should be happy with it.
I would look for a Winchester M70 featherweight or Remington 700 CDL in 30-06. If he already has a .223 and a .243 he is good to go with the fun/plinking guns. Nothing against the 308 or 7mm-08 (which happens to be my personal favorite) but every man should own a 30-06 and graduating middle school and starting high school is the begginning of becoming a man and having to start to make some important decisions on his own. I would recommend the wooden/blued guns because they have some "soul" to them and do not give the impression of a cheap throw away rifle. I have plenty of synthetic stocked rifles but lately have come to appreciate the qualities of walnut and deep bluing.
I'm not typically big on surprises and gift giving, but for this, YOU need to pick it out for him. It makes it 10x better when it comes from you as a gift and a memory he'll never forget. A surprise would be even better. I like the 30-06, pick a classic.
Not TOO big... A .470 Nitro Express Double Rifle would fit the bill
Any advise on this would be very much appreciated.
Since you asked...
I'd consider it an opportunity to bond with him. Explain how proud you are of what he's accomplished, and how much more you know he's capable of. You'd like to recognize his achievements, and do so in a way that should allow you to spend more time together as the years go by.
Then pick it together. Regardless of his size, fit 'n feel is critical. As long as he doesn't want a 710 or some such monstrosity, it'll perform more than well enough. Discuss the chambering: why might he want whatever it is he wants? What advice might you give him about chamberings? What have you learned in your years of hunting & shooting that you'd offer to help him make his choice? Use the same kind of dialog to pick rings & a scope.
He'll never forget receiving this rifle, but he'll also never forget the planning of it, & his interaction with you. IMO, he'll treasure that part far more than the rifle as years go by.
I offer this to you as a kid who received a 788 chambered in .243 Win as a Christmas present when I was 12. It feels like a damned club (even after Karnis worked-over the stock). It didn't fit me then, and really doesn't fit me well now. It wouldn't shoot for [excrement] until I had Mickey Coleman screw a new barrel onto it. But for the rifle being given to me by Dad, I'd never have kept it, much less spent several times its price (or worth) having it worked on.
Dad is my Superhero. I love him dearly, and will treasure his gesture all my days. Still, I'll approach this milestone with my sons, differently than he did.
FC
Any advise on this would be very much appreciated.
Since you asked...
I'd consider it an opportunity to bond with him. Explain how proud you are of what he's accomplished, and how much more you know he's capable of. You'd like to recognize his achievements, and do so in a way that should allow you to spend more time together as the years go by.
Then pick it together. Regardless of his size, fit 'n feel is critical. As long as he doesn't want a 710 or some such monstrosity, it'll perform more than well enough. Discuss the chambering: why might he want whatever it is he wants? What advice might you give him about chamberings? What have you learned in your years of hunting & shooting that you'd offer to help him make his choice? Use the same kind of dialog to pick rings & a scope.
He'll never forget receiving this rifle, but he'll also never forget the planning of it, & his interaction with you. IMO, he'll treasure that part far more than the rifle as years go by.
I offer this to you as a kid who received a 788 chambered in .243 Win as a Christmas present when I was 12. It feels like a damned club (even after Karnis worked-over the stock). It didn't fit me then, and really doesn't fit me well now. It wouldn't shoot for [excrement] until I had Mickey Coleman screw a new barrel onto it. But for the rifle being given to me by Dad, I'd never have kept it, much less spent several times its price (or worth) having it worked on.
Dad is my Superhero. I love him dearly, and will treasure his gesture all my days. Still, I'll approach this milestone with my sons, differently than he did.
FC
I like the idea of a surprise, but this really is the best advice I've seen so far. It took me several years of shooting regularly to realize just how much the fit of a rifle matters. Letting him shoulder several rifles and choose the one that fits him best is worth more than the surprise in the long run.
As others have said, fitment and handling are extremely important. Go with him to your local gun shop and let him get an idea of what he likes and fits him well. Putting in the effort to go with him and discussing the pros/ cons of what he handles at the shop will add to the overall experience IMO.
Although I love the classic looks of wood and blued actions/ barrels, I have come to appreciate the utility of stainless actions and synthetic stocks especially in the late season hunts when it's snowing. Most kids are not always cognizant of the rifle's position when walking around or stepping over obstacles, or may not be too careful when they put it down. If your son falls in to this category, a synthetic stock may be worth discussing.
FYI, Steyr arms is having a great sale on their remaining Pro Hunters. I have 2 of them- .260 and .30-06- very accurate out of the box with nice triggers and the LOP can be adjusted.
http://steyrarms.com/firearms/hunting-rifles/mannlicher-pro-hunter.html. My niece likes the .260. I took her out last season for her first time hunting and she shot her first deer with the .260- a nice little 2 pt mule deer buck.
Regarding Kimbers, I have 2 Montanas (.308 and .280AI). They are easily MOA accurate, great handling, and a joy to carry up and down the mountains hunting elk.
I have a custom built 6.5 Creedmoor he can shoot, but no, I would rather a 308/30-06.
-T
Don't pay attention to what most of these guys are saying. Number one the cartridge I would recommend is the 7-08. My Daughter has 5 rifles and her go to gun is the Tikka compact 7-08. It will take care of most things except a charging Chipmunk. Daughters and Granddaughters rifles are all 7-08 and they love them. You can get it in a Tikka or a Ruger. Mine is a Ruger 77 in 7-08 and it is an awesome shooter. The girls Tikka's are all the compact mdls. which can expan as the person grown larger. I think you can also purchase another stock to replace the compact one from Ruger. We have just done with my Daughters Tikka 7 mag is replace the standard stock with a compact one and installed a couple of Edwards recoil reducers in it. This is incase I win the lottery and we go to New Zealand Red Stag hunting
The Ruger Gunsite Scout could be a good option too. I’m 5’10, 145 pounds and a more compact rifle definitely fits me better. The scout has a lot of good qualities for a young mans rifle:
-Adjustable LOP system
-Threaded muzzle for a brake (it is a bit of a stout recoiler)
-Compact size makes it nice for getting in and out of the truck and it’s nice to carry
-Detachable mags are nice so he doesn’t have to deal with loose rounds. The 3 rounder fits nearly flush for hunting and the ten rounders kinda have that “tactical” appeal that a 14 year old is gonna be drawn too.
-Good iron sights will improve his marksmanship and be a nice backup
For your budget, you could afford a nice scope (doesn’t have to be long eye relief), a sling and a couple extra mags.
My two cents is that a surprise will be more memorable. I remember vividly the moment I first saw the 760 in 6mm my Dad brought out from his bedroom for Xmas way back when. Very special. (wish it was a 708 or 308 tho!)
Times sure change, I though I was the shiz when I got a Marlin 336 in.35 Remington for my 14th birthday and I know it cost more like $ 140.00 back in 1974. I hope your son knows how fortunate he is!
If you run that $140 through a consumer price index inflation calculator it'll come to about $750 today.
Fugg it, buy ‘em a .50 cal.
Seriously, since it’s gonna be a family heirloom for its life most likely, buy a .270.
A lot of suggestions regarding proper fit. The problem is he’s 14. What fits him today will be small for him by next hunting season.
I bought all my sons rifles when they were hunting age (10 years old here in Arizona). I bought one a Tikka Whitetail Hunter (its been 18 years), for the next son I bought an M77 (will never by another Ruger as that gun wouldn’t shoot worth a damn), and most recently I bought a Weatherby vanguard. I’d buy another Tikka or Weatherby as both have proven to be reliable and accurate rifles. I’d also consider an M70. I love the 7-08 will continue to start my kids with that cartridge. It’s big enough to hunt elk and deer, but recoil is very manageable.
Didn't read the entire thread but a take off youth stock can be had cheaply and you can add spacers each year with no problem until he grows into the current stock. This might be pretty quick as he is getting ready for a growth spurt in the next couple of years.
308Win. Ammo found all over the globe from light to heavy. I think Wby Vanguard is a great buy and an accurate rifle out of the box, especially digesting the 308 Win. Would spend remaining funds on superior glass.
I would also put in a vote for a Weatherby Vanguard. I think the expandibility is great as he’ll likely add a few more inches. I’ve always had a thing for 270’s, but I also really like my wife’s 7mm-08. A 6.5 Creedmoore would also probably work really well for him.
I wish! His fat, old Dad would like that rifle.
I've got a little time still. He graduates first part of June....
He might enjoy a hunting style modern sporting rifle in 308. It would solve the stock fit issue and there's no limit to stuff he could add to, or alter about it to personalize it. It's also pretty cool to the younger generation.
I like the idea of taking him to the store.
And I'd recommend a 6.5 Creed or 7mm-08 since he already has a .243.
Model 70 Featherweight, Ruger Hawkeye, or Kimber 84. Flip a coin on which one. Whatever cartridge you want. I’ve got two Kimbers, both are as accurate as anything else I’ve got, under an inch with their preferred loads. I like wood. I know synthetic has its merits. But I still like wood.
Tikka super lite or bergara In 7-08 or 30/06 if you want 30 cal.
Someone mentioned tc venture weather shield , that’s a great gun!
just might be on heavier side for 8th grader.
The older I get the more I realize no need for big calibers
I wonder how many thousands of rifles sit in a corner, unused, because they were something fathers bought their sons without consulting the youth....rifles that the sons didn't really want because of ill fit/too much recoil/too heavy/just not the son's style, so the sons don't shoot the rifles. But the sons don't want to sell the rifles, because they hold sentimental value.
I wonder how many thousands of rifles sit in a corner, unused, because they were something fathers bought their sons without consulting the youth....rifles that the sons didn't really want because of ill fit/too much recoil/too heavy/just not the son's style, so the sons don't shoot the rifles. But the sons don't want to sell the rifles, because they hold sentimental value.
Mine's not unused, but I probably would have went with a lighter recoiling cartridge than the 338 Win. I was in college and dad, while a hunter, knew very little about rifles. He wanted to get me something that would work for anything I'd ever hunt. So far it's never not worked from doe pronghorns to bull elk and cow bison. My kids will likely get a similar gift from me, but it won't recoil as much as that one does.
Again, lots of great advice here. I'm taking it all in. Really appreciate it guys. I did stop buy the gun store yesterday and "looked" around. Sam, my son, will be going with me to give both of us an idea of what he likes/dislikes. Rest assured dear old Dad will have the final say though.
And I've thought long and hard on the caliber. I'm pretty much dead set on a 308. I've been to Africa twice with my Dad. Plains game the first trip, and Cape Buff/plains game the second trip. Dad has a .270 that was passed down to him from my Grandfather before he passed. Has killed Elk, Mtn Goat, Mulie, Whitetail, Antelope with no problems. But over on the dark continent, their critters are just flat out TOUGH. The first trip, Namibia, he shot all his PG with the .270 and had just a heck of a time. It's just not enough gun for their bigger spiral horned critters. "IF" I ever get the opportunity to go back, I think a .30 cal slug makes a big difference and I'm not going back without him with me as my Dad did with me. Many of you pointed out, this gun will be with him until, hopefully, he passes it onto one of his children.
Just my thoughts so far...
Regarding the 270 Win and Africa, I'd suggest a search to turn up the posts by RinB on the subject...
My son had a .243 Win in H&R but it didn't shoot for [bleep]. I take him and he likes the T3 light. in .270 Win. I think it kicks like a mule but he likes it. He is21 now and 5'3" and 125 lbs. It is a nice gun. I have a TC Venture in .243 WIN in compact. It is a bit heavy for a 20" barrel but a nice handling gun and they make it in a few calibers.
I think the boy needs to kearn the lesson that given the chance , his fellow Americans can and will build just as good of a rifle as any State subsidized EU company.
If he is Ok with a classic synthetic stocked all weather rifle you need to look into a T/C Venture Weathershield in 30/06. With the current rebates T/C is running, that gun can be had for about $425 online. They work well and are extremely accurate. At 7lbs, it is light enough without being hard to shoot well.
Be American-Buy American.