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Posted By: OldGrayWolf Winchester 70 or Rem. CDL? - 02/28/19
I am looking for a .25-06 for deer and yotes, similar. both the Model 70 EW and the CDL-SF are similar in weight. Either rifle will likely end up in a McMillan Hunter Edge. Basically looking for a walking rifle for mulies and smaller, for open country. I like stainless, since I hunt in any weather, but not stuck on it. I like the Model 70, but the Remingtons have always treated me just as well, and they seem to heve better aftermarket support(triggers,and such).My questions are:

Which rifle is more reliably accurate?(have read accuracy may be better in CS barrels? Truth, or BS?)

Which do you have, and your impression of it?

Is there a better option in the weight and price range?

I like the Remington’s 24 inch barrel for this caliber vs. the 22 inch tube on the Winchester. Thoughts?

Thanks.
Ford v Chevy.
Someone will be along shortly to suggest a dodge.
Then someone will recomend a tesla.
Flip a coin.
I tend to prefer a 3 position safety.
Having said all that ... at present I’d buy a Fieldcraft smile
Posted By: viking Re: Winchester 70 or Rem. CDL? - 02/28/19
I would go for the Winchester, the last Remington I had the trigger sucked. IMO
Buy a used New Haven Model 70, then you don't have to worry about aftermarket support, especially triggers. It'll already have the best trigger ever made for a hunting rifle.
Winchester 70 without hesitation!
Model 70
Posted By: hanco Re: Winchester 70 or Rem. CDL? - 03/01/19
Remington
Posted By: Mgw619 Re: Winchester 70 or Rem. CDL? - 03/01/19
Both
Originally Posted by Dixie_Rebel
Winchester 70 without hesitation!


Yep.
Posted By: SDHNTR Re: Winchester 70 or Rem. CDL? - 03/01/19
Model 70. Hands down. Handle both side by side. Understand the build and design differences and you’ll make up your own mind.
Posted By: Youper Re: Winchester 70 or Rem. CDL? - 03/01/19
The model 70 would be my choice also, but my how times have changed. Ten years ago on this board anyone suggesting something other than a 700 would have been severely derided.

BTW: The answer to Ford v. Chevy is Dodge.
Did a lot of reading last night, and my takeaway was the same as the responses here. Were I trying to build an ultralight rifle, maybe remington would get it( nah, I’d just buy a Fieldcraft), but the Model 70 is where it’s at for a hunting rifle. Have had both before, and both served me well, but it appears that Remington is not what it used to be, and reliability is a big deal to me.
Posted By: Redneck Re: Winchester 70 or Rem. CDL? - 03/01/19


Originally Posted by OldGrayWolf
.......... but the Remingtons have always treated me just as well, and they seem to heve better aftermarket support(triggers,and such).
That's because they NEED a lot of 'aftermarket support (triggers and such).. smile



Originally Posted by winchester70
Buy a used New Haven Model 70, then you don't have to worry about aftermarket support, especially triggers. It'll already have the best trigger ever made for a hunting rifle.
Beat me to it...
Had both, mod 70 gets the nod
Both of my EW in 308 Winchester are great shooters. I did the Ernie trigger spring change for ~$8 ea. and never looked back. One sits in a McMillan and the other sets in a factory tupperware stock.
Winchester, all day, all the way.
My first 25-06 was a stainless 700 ADL from Cabelas as a package with a Pine Ridge scope. Gave the scope to a friend and put the rifle in CDL stock off my 270. I had put it in a Boyds stock and free floated it along with pillar bedding and found it shot better with the CDL stock and a little pressure on the barrel.

1st time out I got a coyote and it has been that way ever since. 100 grain BTs. The 25-06 has become my favorite caliber and started collecting a few. So my experience has been the Stainless 700, an original black barreled Sendero, M77 MarkII (blued), Tikka Stainless in Walnut and a Marlin XL7. The Winchester 70 with a maple stock and a Browning X-Bolt are still on the bucket list.

I have used all on coyotes and handload 75 V-max in each but the 700 Stainless and have stuck with the Nosler 100 grain BTs.

My findings is they all shoot great, some took longer to come around and liked different things. I like the 22" barrels and light weight of the Marlin and Tikka to carry, I hate lugging the Sendero and long barrel. I feel the 24" barrel is just right for velosity and carry. The one that has surprised me the most is the Ruger MarkII. It has more of a magnum contour barrel, and I like the Winchester style safety. It really came around after free floating, pillar bedding and bedding the action, lapping the Ruger rings and putting in a timney trigger. It's built like a tank and has proved to me that those Ruger are alot more accurate then some say.

If I had to pick a one bolt action rifle to last me a life time as a work rifle, I would be hard pressed not to pick an accurate M77 MarkII Ruger.

To answer your question, I don't think you could go wrong with either the 70 or the 700 with a 24" barrel. Its a great caliber that has a bit of a following.
Posted By: Fotis Re: Winchester 70 or Rem. CDL? - 03/01/19
Winchester, all day, all the way.
I have owned dozens of each of these rifles, probly twice as many Remingtons as I have owned Winchesters and I was a Remington man for many years and I had good luck buying Remington rifles but lately I fancy CRF rifles so I would choose the Winchester model 70 without hesitation, I recently sold a like new Mod 70 EW chambered in .300 WSM that was an excellent rifle, I just didn't care for the feel of the thick wristed stock......Good luck....Hb
Posted By: Quak Re: Winchester 70 or Rem. CDL? - 03/01/19
Remington all day every day.

Accuracy potential vs tradition imho

No knock on Winchester...but I despise 3 position safety’s and CRF rifles.

Both are good guns, both will likely need the bugs worked out, both will serve you well
I would go with the remington. My cdl sf in 7mag shot excellent and had no issues.
Posted By: tzone Re: Winchester 70 or Rem. CDL? - 03/01/19
The action on the Winchester will be smooooooth.
Posted By: Guybo54 Re: Winchester 70 or Rem. CDL? - 03/01/19
I'll throw another punch for Remington but i may be a little bias because that's all I've ever had. I can't speak for Winchester because I've never owned one but know those who have that are equally pleased. I've heard and read lots of negatives about Remington but I've personally and honestly never had any issues with the ones I've owned or own now. In the past I had a Sendero 25.06, Classic 25.06, ADL 30.06 and a really older ADL wood stocked 25.06. My current rifles are a CDL 25.06, 700p LTR .308, and my daughter has a Rem 700SPS .260 that I put in a CDL wood stock. All these rifles have functioned flawlessly and been accurate for me and I wouldn't hesitate to buy another one.
Posted By: Cascade Re: Winchester 70 or Rem. CDL? - 03/02/19
[Linked Image]

Fell hard for the 700 CDL when it was introduced. Bought a 25-06 and it quickly became my primary hunting rifle for deer, pronghorn & coyote. Topped mine with a 6x Leupold. Have taken mule deer at an honest 400 yards. Coyotes farther.

Love the trim, lean lines of the CDL, just a great handling rifle and quite accurate.

That said, today's Winchester Model 70 is a fine rifle... I honestly think it's just a matter of personal preference.

Regards, Guy
Posted By: bmoney Re: Winchester 70 or Rem. CDL? - 03/02/19
I have a CDL in 25-06 on its 10 day wait right now. Obviously I have not shot it yet but it is an incredibly nice rifle, the action, handling, wood, the way it shoulders.......are all spot on. I looked at the M70 featherweight as well (online), it seems like a great rifle as well. The 2 inches of barrel length probably won't be a big deal but you will lose a little FPS, not enough for a coyote or deer to know the difference. I have a 700 ADL tactical in 223 that has been an amazing rifle, I have yet to find a load that shoots terrible in it. That is part of the reason I went with a M700 CDL.
My first bolt action centerfire rifle was a Remington 700 BDL in 25-06. I used it plenty on woodchucks and NY State deer. It was very accurate, and knocked the snot out of anything I shot. I sold it and bought a Tikka 243 in 1995 as the 25-06 was a bit much for varminting around here. I like the 24" barrel in this round. Remington also has the advantage of so many aftermarket parts. The CDL model is really a pretty rifle. Remington took the best of the BDL and the Classic and made a very good looking package.

On the other hand, since 1995 I have come to appreciate the Model 70 design. I like the safety especially. However, that is not a deal breaker. I think the Winchester Featherweight will be lighter than the Remington CDL. My DBL wasn't a light rifle.
Looking at the Wichester featherweight pretty hard, and the Extreme Weather. The stainless featherweight doesn’t come in the quarterbore. That would interest me. Bmoney, I saw your pics, Looks like a nice rifle. The first pic makes it look like the recoil pad to stock fit is off? Probably just the pic. I think I like the longer barrel in this caliber, as well, but the two inches won’t cost me that much. Decisions, decisioms.
If I was buying new, the quality issues with Rem lately would make me look real hard at the particular rifle before I threw down my coin. FN is doing a good job with Winchester and IMHO have the better quality at this time. If looking at used, it depends on when they were made.
Originally Posted by OldGrayWolf
I am looking for a .25-06 for deer and yotes, similar. both the Model 70 EW and the CDL-SF are similar in weight. Either rifle will likely end up in a McMillan Hunter Edge. Basically looking for a walking rifle for mulies and smaller, for open country. I like stainless, since I hunt in any weather, but not stuck on it. I like the Model 70, but the Remingtons have always treated me just as well, and they seem to heve better aftermarket support(triggers,and such).My questions are:

Which rifle is more reliably accurate?(have read accuracy may be better in CS barrels? Truth, or BS?)

Which do you have, and your impression of it?

Is there a better option in the weight and price range?

I like the Remington’s 24 inch barrel for this caliber vs. the 22 inch tube on the Winchester. Thoughts?

Thanks.

I’m a Model 70 guy, but a Model 700 would be fine for the uses that you have in mind. I prefer the old-style Model 70 trigger but they’ve been discontinued so you might need to add a Timney to the Model 70.

Accuracy is about the same and both may need tweaks so that’s a wash. Remington has more aftermarket support but most of what’s offered for a Model 700 that’s not offered for a Model 70 is for precision and tactical rifles, so that’s also a wash. That said, get a Tikka or a Sako if out-of-the box accuracy is an overriding factor.

You don’t need CRF for deer and yotes, so all that’s left is the three-position safety, which is a matter of taste.

I’d look at balance. I shoot a lot of offhand so I like a rifle that’s a bit muzzle heavy. I’d handle both rifles, see which one hangs better, and buy that. The longer barrel of the Remington might win there, especially compared to a Model 70 Featherweight. The EW is worse since the stock is so much heavier toward the rear. You can ignore this if you typically shoot from a rest.

With all of that in mind, I’d look at the total cost (price + shipping + tax, etc.) of the rifle, plus the price + shipping + tax, etc. required to make any upgrades that it’s likely to need (McMillan stock, Timney trigger, etc.). That figure might open up your options to include semi-custom rifles like the Barrett Fieldcraft that don’t need those things.

You could also buy parts on the Classifieds and build a Frankengun. It would take longer but it might be more fun.


Okie John
Good thinking, Okie John. As a walking rifle offhand shooting will be part of its repertoire. Balance will matter. Of course putting a featherweight or EW into a McMillan Hunter Edge could affect balance to the positive. Either rifle will be getting a new stock, most likely. The Barrett and Kimbers are lighter than I care for, and I like my bolt to lock shut on safe. Spend too much time threading my way through thickets and such for a non locking bolt. This rifle is moremfor open country, but that by no means rules out thick cover use at times. Which means finding an old safety would have to happen for the Remington. The 70 Sporter has a 24” barrel for the .25-06, and weighs two ounces more than the EW, according to Wichester specs. The extra is either in the non fluted barrel that is two inches longer, which I expect is the case, or the difference between the wood sporter stock and the synthetic EW stock. A McMillan like I am looking at would put the rifle under 7 lbs. bare. Add some Talleys and a lightweight scope, should end up under 8-1/2 lbs. all up. The CDL SF weighs a bit more as it comes, so the weight issue is nonexistent. An 8 or 8-1/2 lb. rifle in this caliber will be a soft shooter, I think. And settle nicely for offfhand shooting and shooting off a pack. I am going to have to get my hands on these and figure it out from there. But it is probably going to end up being some flavor of Winchester before it’s all over. That just seems to check more boxes, overall.
I have two M700s and one M70. Love them all. Since you specify 25/06 I would go Remington as this caliber likes 24" barrels. If it wasn't for that I'd say handle them both and pick the one that feels right.
Originally Posted by Quak
Remington all day every day.

Accuracy potential vs tradition imho

No knock on Winchester...but I despise 3 position safety’s and CRF rifles.

Both are good guns, both will likely need the bugs worked out, both will serve you well


But, but, you're gonna need that CRF in case you get charged by a wounded coyote or deer, that can be lethal!
Posted By: jorgeI Re: Winchester 70 or Rem. CDL? - 03/04/19
Originally Posted by Borchardt
Originally Posted by Quak
Remington all day every day.

Accuracy potential vs tradition imho

No knock on Winchester...but I despise 3 position safety’s and CRF rifles.

Both are good guns, both will likely need the bugs worked out, both will serve you well


But, but, you're gonna need that CRF in case you get charged by a wounded coyote or deer, that can be lethal!


The CRF is the least of your worries with a Rem abortion. I'd be worried about the gun going off when the safety's engaged, not to mention the POS won't even lock the bolt, the flimsy, sheet metal extractor breaking, the brazed on handle falling off....
Posted By: JamesJr Re: Winchester 70 or Rem. CDL? - 03/04/19
Originally Posted by jorgeI
Originally Posted by Borchardt
Originally Posted by Quak
Remington all day every day.

Accuracy potential vs tradition imho

No knock on Winchester...but I despise 3 position safety’s and CRF rifles.

Both are good guns, both will likely need the bugs worked out, both will serve you well


But, but, you're gonna need that CRF in case you get charged by a wounded coyote or deer, that can be lethal!


The CRF is the least of your worries with a Rem abortion. I'd be worried about the gun going off when the safety's engaged, not to mention the POS won't even lock the bolt, the flimsy, sheet metal extractor breaking, the brazed on handle falling off....



And I suppose you've had all those things happen to you.....you know, first hand experience.
Originally Posted by OldGrayWolf
Looking at the Wichester featherweight pretty hard, and the Extreme Weather. The stainless featherweight doesn’t come in the quarterbore. That would interest me. Bmoney, I saw your pics, Looks like a nice rifle. The first pic makes it look like the recoil pad to stock fit is off? Probably just the pic. I think I like the longer barrel in this caliber, as well, but the two inches won’t cost me that much. Decisions, decisioms.

Buy the Featherweight.
Posted By: jwall Re: Winchester 70 or Rem. CDL? - 03/04/19
Originally Posted by JamesJr
Originally Posted by jorgeI


The CRF is the least of your worries with a Rem abortion. I'd be worried about the gun going off when the safety's engaged, not to mention the POS won't even lock the bolt, the flimsy, sheet metal extractor breaking, the brazed on handle falling off....



And I suppose you've had all those things happen to you.....you know, first hand experience.


James, last yr. Mule Deer wrote a lengthy uhhh, response to JorgI about Newer Production 700s. He addressed issues directly and the
conclusion from M D was that he hunted & shot the 700s AND would buy new ones if he needed to.

I wish I could find that 'thread'. It's in either Ask Gunwriters OR Hunting Rifles forums.


Jerry
Posted By: pete53 Re: Winchester 70 or Rem. CDL? - 03/04/19
i would rather buy a different brand rifle than a Remington 700 if you are going to be in extreme wet - cold weather and camping. reason Remington 700`s have a problem of freezing up in the bolt and firing pin gets froze ,rifle will not fire. it has happened to me and others in the mountains on pack hunts and in northern Minnesota callin coyotes at night. i also don`t like the way the bolt will just fall open on safety either when bumped when on a long pack hunt. but Remington does make a good accurate rifle and for a day hunt guy in warmer weather they work fine for that. for durability give me either a Winchester,Weatherby,Savage,Browning or a Ruger they do not freeze up as easy and these brands have a better safety system too.
Posted By: jorgeI Re: Winchester 70 or Rem. CDL? - 03/04/19
Originally Posted by JamesJr
Originally Posted by jorgeI
Originally Posted by Borchardt
Originally Posted by Quak
Remington all day every day.

Accuracy potential vs tradition imho

No knock on Winchester...but I despise 3 position safety’s and CRF rifles.

Both are good guns, both will likely need the bugs worked out, both will serve you well


But, but, you're gonna need that CRF in case you get charged by a wounded coyote or deer, that can be lethal!


The CRF is the least of your worries with a Rem abortion. I'd be worried about the gun going off when the safety's engaged, not to mention the POS won't even lock the bolt, the flimsy, sheet metal extractor breaking, the brazed on handle falling off....



And I suppose you've had all those things happen to you.....you know, first hand experience.


So are you calling me a liar? Or better yet a troll with nothing better to do?
I've never bought a Yugo, but I knew what POS they were. It's called research. On record here as having owned TWO (2) 700s,one went back to Remington for a over cut chamber for the locking lugs (35 Wheelen Classic), the other is a 22-1250 that I still have up in our place in PA and it serves ONE function, shooting ground hogs from our porch. The safety is never used and the rifle is loaded one round at a time. On the bolt handles, seen more than one at the range. extractor issues, never seen, but I sort of believe the likes of Don Heath and another 700 user who used to post here (AFP) who admitted to a few extractor failures due to debris getting caught behind the extractor. As to the bolt not locking, surely you can attest to that. Fire on Fail safety, there's probably been a dozen incidents posted here from fellow members with pretty good reputations, not to mention internet searches on myriad litigation on the subject. How's that or again are you questioning my veracity?
Posted By: gerry35 Re: Winchester 70 or Rem. CDL? - 03/04/19
Biggest poser on this site.....
Posted By: jorgeI Re: Winchester 70 or Rem. CDL? - 03/04/19
Typical hayseed response to simple opinions supported by facts. That's ok...
Posted By: Quak Re: Winchester 70 or Rem. CDL? - 03/04/19
Originally Posted by Blacktailer
If I was buying new, the quality issues with Rem lately would make me look real hard at the particular rifle before I threw down my coin. FN is doing a good job with Winchester and IMHO have the better quality at this time. If looking at used, it depends on when they were made.


I would be careful with that line of thought. They both put out plenty of Junk. Ive had several issues with both makers.

Like I said, bugs may need to be worked out with either one but they are both good guns and would serve a hunter or shooter well. Getting a perfect gun out of the box for less than 2 or 3 grand is the exception, not the rule in my experience.
Posted By: Quak Re: Winchester 70 or Rem. CDL? - 03/04/19
Originally Posted by pete53
i would rather buy a different brand rifle than a Remington 700 if you are going to be in extreme wet - cold weather and camping. reason Remington 700`s have a problem of freezing up in the bolt and firing pin gets froze ,rifle will not fire. it has happened to me and others in the mountains on pack hunts and in northern Minnesota callin coyotes at night. i also don`t like the way the bolt will just fall open on safety either when bumped when on a long pack hunt. but Remington does make a good accurate rifle and for a day hunt guy in warmer weather they work fine for that. for durability give me either a Winchester,Weatherby,Savage,Browning or a Ruger they do not freeze up as easy and these brands have a better safety system too.



Is this a joke? If you have a bolt "freezing up" its due to lack of maintenance or stupidity PERIOD. I don't care what the rifle in question is.
Posted By: jorgeI Re: Winchester 70 or Rem. CDL? - 03/04/19
Originally Posted by Quak
Originally Posted by pete53
i would rather buy a different brand rifle than a Remington 700 if you are going to be in extreme wet - cold weather and camping. reason Remington 700`s have a problem of freezing up in the bolt and firing pin gets froze ,rifle will not fire. it has happened to me and others in the mountains on pack hunts and in northern Minnesota callin coyotes at night. i also don`t like the way the bolt will just fall open on safety either when bumped when on a long pack hunt. but Remington does make a good accurate rifle and for a day hunt guy in warmer weather they work fine for that. for durability give me either a Winchester,Weatherby,Savage,Browning or a Ruger they do not freeze up as easy and these brands have a better safety system too.



Is this a joke? If you have a bolt "freezing up" its due to lack of maintenance or stupidity PERIOD. I don't care what the rifle in question is.




Absolutely correct, but closed trigger systems (like the new "improved" (not) Model 70 trigger) are more prone to freezing. But a 700's bolt can get opened accidentally if the bolt catches on brush, etc. Our own Pugs experienced this on his first moose hunt where he hunted with a borrowed 700.
Posted By: Quak Re: Winchester 70 or Rem. CDL? - 03/04/19
The factory trigger on both guns is less than ideal. I have no problem with enclosed triggers in general though and have not experienced any issues in 25+ years of using them. Id note that neither has the US Army and Marine Corps. They do need to be maintained however. I personally clean them out with lighter fluid once a year or whenever they come out of the stock. Enclosed triggers are the norm these days. They are used by Remington, Savage, Tikka, Winchester, Browning, Kimber. The list goes on and on. In the common guns, the only one I can think of that's "open" would be the 77s. Those triggers are pretty rotten and need some love to get proper imho though. Id be comfortable saying that if your triggers are failing due to freezing or debris intrusion, a new maintenance plan may be in order. I don't say this to be snotty. I hunt every year in temps well below 0F and have never had a single issue with Walker, Xmark, or a host of aftermarket enclosed triggers.

As far as the bolt opening...i suppose anything can happen but I personally like the ability to cycle the action with the safety on. If the 2 pos safety locked the bolt, i wouldn't be happy about it. As they say, different strokes. No right or wrong answer.

I mentioned to a older member at my club just last week that I preferred push feed guns and he looked at me like i just threw up on his shoes. It was pretty funny.
Posted By: jorgeI Re: Winchester 70 or Rem. CDL? - 03/04/19
Nothing wrong with PF actions. As for the safety locking, as you say, a matter of preference...
Posted By: JamesJr Re: Winchester 70 or Rem. CDL? - 03/04/19
No one can say that Remington 700's have been trouble free, as they did indeed go through a few years of problems. I had the bolt handle come off of the most expensive I've ever bought, an XCR Compact Tactical. I was very disappointed. But, every other Model 700 I've ever had has been trouble free and shot great.

The thing that a lot of people don't get is that Remington makes a lot of rifles, with the 700 being the most popular American made bolt action hunting rifle ever made. You make that many of something, and some of them are bound have flaws, it's just plain old math. Also, being the number one kid on the block is going to lead to other kids trying to knock you off, and if some of them can't beat you fair and square, they will resort to low tactics in order to do so. One way to do that is to start rumors about you, and in the case of the Model 700, that's exactly what has happened.

I will guarantee you that if the truth were ever known, 95% plus of those people who wrote and trashed the Remington 700, along with other of their firearms, never owned one, or if they did, only owned one or two. Now, that's okay, and is to be expected. It's no different than those who write and say that they've seen bullets from a 270 bounce off of an elk, whereas a 30-06 bullet went all they way through an elk, and killed a bear that was standing on the other side. No different than the people who are so in love with anything called a Creedmoor, that they think that anything else is obsolete.

All the while, those of us who own and use 700's just smile and keep shooting them.
Posted By: jorgeI Re: Winchester 70 or Rem. CDL? - 03/04/19
Originally Posted by JamesJr


All the while, those of us who own and use 700's just smile and keep shooting them.


And call others who disagree on their veracity or names. Nothing wrong with your post had it been your initial one... 270 bounce iff an elk? link or hyperbole?
Posted By: pete53 Re: Winchester 70 or Rem. CDL? - 03/04/19
i own around 15-20 Remington 700`s all are very accurate and are good rifles BUT ! if you have never hunted during extreme cold-snowy -wet weather in the mountains ,Alaska or Minnesota you have no ideal what small problems can happen with a rifle that may be a big problem when you need the rifle to work properly. do i trash Remington rifles no but i will never trust a Remington 700 in cold weather ever again. most people have no ideal about cold-wet weather hunting really is like, many rifle hunters on here wear a jacket when temp.is 70 ,at my home today it was 15 below at sunrise and that was just a average cold day ,here in Minnesota.
Posted By: SKane Re: Winchester 70 or Rem. CDL? - 03/04/19
Originally Posted by pete53
i own around 15-20 Remington 700`s all are very accurate and are good rifles BUT ! if you have never hunted during extreme cold-snowy -wet weather in the mountains ,Alaska or Minnesota you have no ideal what small problems can happen with a rifle that may be a big problem when you need the rifle to work properly. do i trash Remington rifles no but i will never trust a Remington 700 in cold weather ever again. most people have no ideal about cold-wet weather hunting really is like, many rifle hunters on here wear a jacket when temp.is 70 ,at my home today it was 15 below at sunrise and that was just a average cold day ,here in Minnesota.



Because someone didn't know to clean/degrease a firing pin?
Just for you, Provincial Pete. Temp was colder than what you had this morn at sunrise in MN (which judging from your posts over the years is the most severe, and coldest weather on earth). smirk

[Linked Image]
Posted By: JamesJr Re: Winchester 70 or Rem. CDL? - 03/04/19
Originally Posted by jorgeI
Originally Posted by JamesJr


All the while, those of us who own and use 700's just smile and keep shooting them.


And call others who disagree on their veracity or names. Nothing wrong with your post had it been your initial one... 270 bounce iff an elk? link or hyperbole?



Well, ole Elmer Keith seemed to think they bounced off.

Of course it's just a hyperbole, surely you're more intelligent that that. No one is calling you a name, not unless you have a guilty conscience, or deserve to be called one. But I will stick to my point.......the majority of those people who have declared the Model 700 as not being as good as other rifles, have either never owned one, or else they're just full of chit.

Take your pick.
Posted By: jorgeI Re: Winchester 70 or Rem. CDL? - 03/04/19
You didn't others have. Of course I knew it was hyperbole smile Well, at least I hope you respect my observations and are not made up bullshit. Aside from that, we can agree to disagree.
Posted By: JamesJr Re: Winchester 70 or Rem. CDL? - 03/04/19
Originally Posted by jorgeI
You didn't others have. Of course I knew it was hyperbole smile Well, at least I hope you respect my observations and are not made up bullshit. Aside from that, we can agree to disagree.



I have learned to agree to disagree a lot.....no problem.
Posted By: Quak Re: Winchester 70 or Rem. CDL? - 03/04/19
Originally Posted by pete53
i own around 15-20 Remington 700`s all are very accurate and are good rifles BUT ! if you have never hunted during extreme cold-snowy -wet weather in the mountains ,Alaska or Minnesota you have no ideal what small problems can happen with a rifle that may be a big problem when you need the rifle to work properly. do i trash Remington rifles no but i will never trust a Remington 700 in cold weather ever again. most people have no ideal about cold-wet weather hunting really is like, many rifle hunters on here wear a jacket when temp.is 70 ,at my home today it was 15 below at sunrise and that was just a average cold day ,here in Minnesota.


LOL I hope nobody takes this $hit seriously
Posted By: SKane Re: Winchester 70 or Rem. CDL? - 03/04/19
Quak-
See my long-standing signature line below. smile
[Linked Image]

Damn, it was -30F on this morning....must have been lucky.

They make this stuff called lighter fluid....apply, and rinse to bolt body, firing pin spring, trigger sear, and bolt shroud, prior to hunting/shooting in sub-zero temps.

It just might work in Minnesota too.....
Careful Pat....Pete53 may misconstrue this information and light his Remington on Fire 🔥 thinking you meant you need to set your action ablaze in cold temps...😂😎
Posted By: SLM Re: Winchester 70 or Rem. CDL? - 03/04/19
It’s always funny to read the 700 bashing threads.

Everyone repeats the same flaws but when pinned down, they have not had the problems personally.

I guess some guys have all the bad luck. Like the guy from Orygun that’s had extraction issues with every 700 he’s touched and every Leupold he’s touched failed also.

Dropped off a rifle about a month ago to have the bolt welded and pinned because it came apart.

It was a model 70 Classic. He said it’s definitely not the first one he’s seen.

Guess now I should jump in every model 70 thread and bash 70’s.
Posted By: Youper Re: Winchester 70 or Rem. CDL? - 03/04/19
I'm down to two of each, which is a small sample. The real differences are subtle. One is a BDL from 1969 that when I throw it up everything is perfect. The other three almost but not as much. Both of the 70's are smoother to chamber a second round after firing, but only slightly so. The triggers on the 70's are better, but only slightly so. The most accurate of the four, but only slightly so, is also the cheapest, a Tupperware Wal-mart special 70 in .30-'06. Much of this thread is over blown on all sides.
Posted By: pete53 Re: Winchester 70 or Rem. CDL? - 03/05/19
do as you want with what rifle you want to use,but i like my Remingtons but not in real cold weather unless i have a warm truck to sit in as a few do.
>>>i like the elk picture no gloves , ball hat and just a dry sweatshirt and 30 below ? really ? B.S. or was it another sneak up local Montana truck hunt with a rifle ,pat on the back and a picture ?

you guys are funny but desperate for attention and probably have little man syndrome too
Posted By: SKane Re: Winchester 70 or Rem. CDL? - 03/05/19
Originally Posted by pete53

>>>i like the elk picture no gloves , ball hat and just a dry sweatshirt and 30 below ? really ? B.S. or was it another sneak up local Montana truck hunt with a rifle ,pat on the back and a picture ?


You aren't fit to hold Pat's empties – it's laughable you'd call him a BS'er.
Posted By: Quak Re: Winchester 70 or Rem. CDL? - 03/05/19
BS’ers have been exposed on this thread LoL
Well, this thread took on a life of its own wwhile I was working... Never intended to twist panties in knots, guys.
I see lots of pics with dead animals and smiling hunters, which usually means the rifle worked fine. Seems like most brands are well represented, too. I have owned Wichesters, and Remingtons. No Savages, because I find them unattractive and HATE a trigger on a rifle having a lever in the middle of it. No Tikkas, either, because I just haven’t. I had a Winchester Classic Featherweight in 6.5 Swede that would not feed reliably at all sold it to a guy who wantd it bad enough to try to fix it. I had a Remington Mountain Light that left because it was too light. I had a 700 KS in ‘06 that killed a bunch of stuff, and was sold to finance other stuff. Had a Remington Model 7 Laminated in .243, sold it because it was the most butt-heavy rifle I have seen, and the wife didn’t care for it. Had a Pre-64 70 in ‘06, killed a bunch of stuff with it, too. Put two deer in the truck at the same time more often than not. Traded it on a Hawkeye AW in .308, because I hunt rough, and didn’t want to bang up the beautiful pre-64. Looking at reborimg the Ruger to .358, maybe.

Said all that to say, I have hunted hard with both Remington and Winchester, in weather that kept most at the the house, and never had an issue with either brand as a result. The featherweight was a basket case from day one, never hunted it. The Remingtons all worked fine, two were sold due to not being a good fit for me, the KS would still be here if I was as wise then as I am now. Loved the pre-64, but it really was too nice to hunt my way. So I have the Ruger for the thickets, thorns, mud, rain, and snow. I am looking to put together an open country tool that will do as well as the Ruger does in the weather and mud, but reach out further for those longer shots sometimes presented in open areas. I like the CDL-SF, the 70 EW, and the stainless featherweight. I place a high premium on the locking bolt, but the safety can be returned to that configuration on the 700 if I wanted, Any of these will be getting a McMillan, because wood and I don’t work well together. I am going to handle all three before I make a final decision, and appreciate all the input.
Originally Posted by pete53
do as you want with what rifle you want to use,but i like my Remingtons but not in real cold weather unless i have a warm truck to sit in as a few do.
>>>i like the elk picture no gloves , ball hat and just a dry sweatshirt and 30 below ? really ? B.S. or was it another sneak up local Montana truck hunt with a rifle ,pat on the back and a picture ?

you guys are funny but desperate for attention and probably have little man syndrome too



You couldn't have made that climb to intercept that bull on your finest day...ever climb 1500 vertical feet in 45 minutes?

You're the biggest tool on this site.

FWIW, I'm 6' 1", 185. I guarantee if you were face to face with me, you'd be backtracking.....
Posted By: Beaudry Re: Winchester 70 or Rem. CDL? - 03/05/19
I coyote hunt in northern ND and northern MN with Remington 700 rifles all the time. I am consistently in sub zero weather and snow and have never had an issue with a Remington 700 freezing or doing anything it’s not supposed to do. But 700s are all I own so I don’t really have anything else to compare it to.
Posted By: jwall Re: Winchester 70 or Rem. CDL? - 03/05/19
Originally Posted by SKane
Originally Posted by pete53

>>>i like the elk picture no gloves , ball hat and just a dry sweatshirt and 30 below ? really ? B.S....


You aren't fit to hold Pat's empties – it's laughable you'd call him a BS'er.


Scott it’s just more of his immense ignorance. He doesn’t know what he doesn’t know ! !
Posted By: shootAI Re: Winchester 70 or Rem. CDL? - 03/05/19
Seems every thread he shows he is douche. For a guy that hates everything Montana hunting, seems he could save us all the trouble and stay in MN
Posted By: tzone Re: Winchester 70 or Rem. CDL? - 03/05/19
Originally Posted by jwall
Originally Posted by SKane
Originally Posted by pete53

>>>i like the elk picture no gloves , ball hat and just a dry sweatshirt and 30 below ? really ? B.S....


You aren't fit to hold Pat's empties – it's laughable you'd call him a BS'er.


Scott it’s just more of his immense ignorance. He doesn’t know what he doesn’t know ! !


And what he doesn’t know is a bunch!!
I'll offer an alternative. Find an H&R Ultra 301. FN action Douglas bbl with a full stock. H&R was trying to compete with some of the better rifle makers in the early 70s and in the process put together a fine rifle. My daughter has a 270 which is a real tack driver. I have a 25-06 which has been a safe queen for over 10 years.
Posted By: jwall Re: Winchester 70 or Rem. CDL? - 03/05/19
Originally Posted by pete53

>>>i like the elk picture no gloves , ball hat and just a dry sweatshirt and 30 below ? really ? B.S. or was it another sneak up local Montana truck hunt with a rifle ,pat on the back and a picture ?


p 53...... let me point out just HOW UN observant you are!!



[Linked Image]


I have NOT talked with 'scenar', I'm going on the SAME picture from which you drew your ? conclusions ?

First >> look at Pat's neck line..... there's One layer UNDER that sweat shirt >>> THAT's VISIBLE ! !

Second >> Look at the STRAPs over his shoulders, that indicates to me he is wearing OVERALLs. I would predict they are insulated.

Those 2 things tell us he had THREE layers in Front and Back of his torso >> AT LEAST !

Many Xs there are more things going on than a pic would tell us. Later he said he'd climbed 1500 Ft vertically! ! !

That would warm a fellow up and could kill some out of shape hunters.

So...............


Jerry
Originally Posted by scenarshooter
[Linked Image]

Damn, it was -30F on this morning....must have been lucky.

They make this stuff called lighter fluid....apply, and rinse to bolt body, firing pin spring, trigger sear, and bolt shroud, prior to hunting/shooting in sub-zero temps.

It just might work in Minnesota too.....

Is the rifle a Remington or Winchester?

It looks like a Winchester to me.
Originally Posted by elkhunternm
Originally Posted by scenarshooter
[Linked Image]

Damn, it was -30F on this morning....must have been lucky.

They make this stuff called lighter fluid....apply, and rinse to bolt body, firing pin spring, trigger sear, and bolt shroud, prior to hunting/shooting in sub-zero temps.

It just might work in Minnesota too.....

Is the rifle a Remington or Winchester?

It looks like a Winchester to me.


Remington 700 KS, .280
Thank you,Scenarshooter.

Great bull and good shooting there.
Originally Posted by elkhunternm
Thank you,Scenarshooter.

Great bull and good shooting there.


Thanks!

I ended up parting that rifle out to a friend who needed the action for another project. Kinda wish I still had it all in one piece...I still have the stock,
and may put something together one of these days..
Another .280?
Posted By: gerry35 Re: Winchester 70 or Rem. CDL? - 03/05/19
Originally Posted by elkhunternm
Another .280?


How about a fast twist 270 Win to shut up the haters wink 280 Rem is good too lol.
A .300 Whelen would be a decent choice.


My only Remington....
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

It is a decent jackrabbit rifle.
[Linked Image]
Originally Posted by elkhunternm
Another .280?


Probably....still have a bunch of brass, and dies.
Originally Posted by scenarshooter
Originally Posted by elkhunternm
Another .280?


Probably....still have a bunch of brass, and dies.



280 8 twist pushing 180 scenars……;)
Posted By: pete53 Re: Winchester 70 or Rem. CDL? - 03/05/19





ALL B.S.
Posted By: SKane Re: Winchester 70 or Rem. CDL? - 03/06/19
Originally Posted by pete53


ALL B.S.


What's truly hard to fathom is that you beat 100,000 other sperm.
Posted By: jwall Re: Winchester 70 or Rem. CDL? - 03/06/19
Originally Posted by pete53


Ya’LL can call me Frank Burns,

ALL B.S.


That sounds right ! !
Posted By: Quak Re: Winchester 70 or Rem. CDL? - 03/06/19
Perhaps the others froze up in that “brutal” Minnesota climate. Like a Remington 700 does LOL
Posted By: jwall Re: Winchester 70 or Rem. CDL? - 03/06/19
Originally Posted by SKane
Originally Posted by pete53


ALL B.S.


What's truly hard to fathom is that you beat 100,000 other sperm.


Just think how retarded those were !

Jerry
Originally Posted by jorgeI
Originally Posted by JamesJr
Originally Posted by jorgeI
Originally Posted by Borchardt
Originally Posted by Quak
Remington all day every day.

Accuracy potential vs tradition imho

No knock on Winchester...but I despise 3 position safety’s and CRF rifles.

Both are good guns, both will likely need the bugs worked out, both will serve you well


But, but, you're gonna need that CRF in case you get charged by a wounded coyote or deer, that can be lethal!


The CRF is the least of your worries with a Rem abortion. I'd be worried about the gun going off when the safety's engaged, not to mention the POS won't even lock the bolt, the flimsy, sheet metal extractor breaking, the brazed on handle falling off....



And I suppose you've had all those things happen to you.....you know, first hand experience.


So are you calling me a liar? Or better yet a troll with nothing better to do?
I've never bought a Yugo, but I knew what POS they were. It's called research. On record here as having owned TWO (2) 700s,one went back to Remington for a over cut chamber for the locking lugs (35 Wheelen Classic), the other is a 22-1250 that I still have up in our place in PA and it serves ONE function, shooting ground hogs from our porch. The safety is never used and the rifle is loaded one round at a time. On the bolt handles, seen more than one at the range. extractor issues, never seen, but I sort of believe the likes of Don Heath and another 700 user who used to post here (AFP) who admitted to a few extractor failures due to debris getting caught behind the extractor. As to the bolt not locking, surely you can attest to that. Fire on Fail safety, there's probably been a dozen incidents posted here from fellow members with pretty good reputations, not to mention internet searches on myriad litigation on the subject. How's that or again are you questioning my veracity?

Actually the extractor issue AFP had was not the extractor at all. He had brass shavings from the ejector plunger hole hang up the plunger. Not uncommon for hotrodders with plunger ejectors of a number of flavors. I have done it myself with 700s. Recognizing the problem and correcting the behavior fixes the problem instantly.
Originally Posted by jorgeI
Originally Posted by Quak
Originally Posted by pete53
i would rather buy a different brand rifle than a Remington 700 if you are going to be in extreme wet - cold weather and camping. reason Remington 700`s have a problem of freezing up in the bolt and firing pin gets froze ,rifle will not fire. it has happened to me and others in the mountains on pack hunts and in northern Minnesota callin coyotes at night. i also don`t like the way the bolt will just fall open on safety either when bumped when on a long pack hunt. but Remington does make a good accurate rifle and for a day hunt guy in warmer weather they work fine for that. for durability give me either a Winchester,Weatherby,Savage,Browning or a Ruger they do not freeze up as easy and these brands have a better safety system too.



Is this a joke? If you have a bolt "freezing up" its due to lack of maintenance or stupidity PERIOD. I don't care what the rifle in question is.




Absolutely correct, but closed trigger systems (like the new "improved" (not) Model 70 trigger) are more prone to freezing. But a 700's bolt can get opened accidentally if the bolt catches on brush, etc. Our own Pugs experienced this on his first moose hunt where he hunted with a borrowed 700.

I tested a bunch of different brands of rifles during a severe cold snap here a number of years ago. I had no problem at all locking up any of the actions with modest amounts of water. Actually, the pre-64 model 70 was the worst in almost all categories of freezing up.
Originally Posted by scenarshooter
[Linked Image]

Damn, it was -30F on this morning....must have been lucky.

They make this stuff called lighter fluid....apply, and rinse to bolt body, firing pin spring, trigger sear, and bolt shroud, prior to hunting/shooting in sub-zero temps.

It just might work in Minnesota too.....

I ain't near man enough to sport a ball cap at -30...
Posted By: Filaman Re: Winchester 70 or Rem. CDL? - 03/06/19
f you like CRF as in a Mauser 98 the Model 70 s your date. However I will take issue about the Remington. I have one made in 2013 that's a fine shooter and a solid rifle. They've always had issues with triggers but in 2006 they went to the X Mark trigger which pretty much sucked. Then they figured out that the X Mark Pro could be as dangerous or more than the old Walker trigger which the whole 700 series had always come with. All X Mark Pros built before 2014, I think, were recalled. It seems they were assembled with a compound (which I assumed held them together until finished) that could cause them to hang up and go off, similar to what the Walker trigger could do if dirty. Anyway, the X Mark Pro isn't half bad if you know a good competent gun smith that can disassemble it and clean it up and put it back and adjust it. If you send it in it will come back clean but still heavy on weight of pull. My gun smith is excellent with triggers and he got mine down to about 4 pounds, not bad for a hunter. However, first chance i get I'm replacing it with a Timney. In fact, I have two more older 700s that have Walker triggers that my gun smith went through that I think I'm going to retrigger with Timney's. But other than the trigger they're all great rifles. But whatever, Remington 700 or Winchester 70, you won't go wrong with either.
The Remington 700 worked pretty well in this situation.

Mine is a .375 RUM,the PH's is a .416 Rem. He did not have to use his rifle for back up. smile
[Linked Image]
Posted By: tzone Re: Winchester 70 or Rem. CDL? - 03/06/19
Originally Posted by Sitka deer
Originally Posted by scenarshooter
[Linked Image]

Damn, it was -30F on this morning....must have been lucky.

They make this stuff called lighter fluid....apply, and rinse to bolt body, firing pin spring, trigger sear, and bolt shroud, prior to hunting/shooting in sub-zero temps.

It just might work in Minnesota too.....

I ain't near man enough to sport a ball cap at -30...


It can be done for a little while. Not long before your ears feel like they're going to come off though.
Posted By: SKane Re: Winchester 70 or Rem. CDL? - 03/06/19
Originally Posted by tzone

It can be done for a little while. Not long before your ears feel like they're going to come off though.



After climbing 140-ish stories in a pretty short period of time, I'm guessing there was more than one layer peeled off in the process.
But it seems some folks (not directed at you, Tom) have trouble connecting those dots.
Originally Posted by SKane
Originally Posted by tzone

It can be done for a little while. Not long before your ears feel like they're going to come off though.



After climbing 140-ish stories in a pretty short period of time, I'm guessing there was more than one layer peeled off in the process.
But it seems some folks (not directed at you, Tom) have trouble connecting those dots.


A fire blazing, not far from the kill doesn't hurt either......
Posted By: Cascade Re: Winchester 70 or Rem. CDL? - 03/08/19
Originally Posted by elkhunternm
The Remington 700 worked pretty well in this situation.

Mine is a .375 RUM,the PH's is a .416 Rem. He did not have to use his rifle for back up. smile
[Linked Image]


Now that is bigger than a jackrabbit!

Congrats. smile

Guy
Posted By: Cascade Re: Winchester 70 or Rem. CDL? - 03/08/19
I've got a couple of Model 70's that are fine rifles. My Remington rifles have also done a fine job and have been along on some great hunts!

Washington elk:
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

Washington bear:
[Linked Image]

Wyoming mule deer:
[Linked Image]

Alaska, bear & wolf:
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

Honestly wasn't at all worried about rifle failure on any of my hunts. Rifle maintenance is just part of my life though. They need to be cleaned, checked, lubed, properly cared-for. Something to which I became accustomed in the Marines. I still take care of my firearms, and they seem to work pretty well.

Nothing at all against the Model 70, I've got a couple and I like them very much, but I seem to do most of my hunting with a pair of Rem 700's in 25-06 & 30-06.

Regards, Guy



Posted By: Quak Re: Winchester 70 or Rem. CDL? - 03/08/19
Those are some great pics...thanks for sharing!

That’s a beast of a Bear!
Thanks Guy!

Much more exciting than hunting rabbits! smile
Posted By: Cascade Re: Winchester 70 or Rem. CDL? - 03/08/19
Originally Posted by elkhunternm
Thanks Guy!

Much more exciting than hunting rabbits! smile


Really? wink

I'd imagine so... Dang... And with a push feed Remington 700. Dang... wink You really do like living life on the edge.

Guy
Posted By: Cascade Re: Winchester 70 or Rem. CDL? - 03/09/19
Originally Posted by Quak
Those are some great pics...thanks for sharing!

That’s a beast of a Bear!


Thanks. It was a good hunt.

Guy
Originally Posted by Cascade
Originally Posted by elkhunternm
Thanks Guy!

Much more exciting than hunting rabbits! smile


Really? wink

I'd imagine so... Dang... And with a push feed Remington 700. Dang... wink You really do like living life on the edge.

Guy

Yup,I do. wink
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