I have a Remington 700 .30-06 with a SS barrel that’s been the most accurate rifle I’ve ever owned. At one time it shot a dozen consecutive 3 shot groups with 165 TSX bullets that averaged about 0.45 moa. That includes one 5/16” group at 200 yards. But that’s gone now. Rather suddenly the groups opened up to 2+ moa. I put a new scope on it, checked the bedding. Nothing has helped. And these crappy groups don’t have two holes touching with a flyer, they’re just generally bad.

I keep good records and I have about 1300 rounds through the barrel. Is it likely worn out? I always let the barrel cool between shots. I’ve cleaned it almost every time I’ve shot it, always from the breech. Usually use a bore guide but sometimes get lazy.

I have an a-bolt with over 1600 rounds and is still going strong. I’ve never shot a barrel out but it’s my understanding that 1300 rounds would be a pretty short life for an 06.

??

I would expect a barrel life of 5K rounds on a 30-06, assuming it hasn't been abused...

Have you tried another scope i.e. one that you know is reliable?

Have you cleaned it to bare metal using a good copper remover?

New lot of powder?

Worn out brass?

Like I said I changed the scope. The one I took off of it is doing fine on another rifle, and the one that’s on it now I bought new. One’s a Leupold VX3, the other a VX2.

And I used Swede’s copper cleaner before the last session and got very little blue out.

The brass I used this morning had been fired three times and trimmed once. The powder is H4350. I can’t say how old it is for sure or if the bad groups started with this can. Maybe it’s worth trying a new can before replacing the barrel?

Your barrel is fine,but your glass absolute Dog Schit. Hint. Congratulations?!?

Undoubtedly,the mounting system is too. Swipe a 6x MQ while you can,go 1913 inclined interface and gun for maximum ring spacing...then your "bad" barrel will be healed. Hint.

Thank me later.

Hint................

Did you read my post about switching the scopes? The scope that was on this rifle when it’s accuracy started to decline started is now on a new Wby MarkV that is shooting sub-moa.

Sweetheart,you were the one asking questions,not I. Rifles talk,yet nobody fhuqking listens,as you attest obliviously. Hint. Congratulations?!?

Describe the mounting system,or better yet,dangle a picture of the piece of schit. Hint.

I only mounted (4) scopes today,upon 1913 interfaces. Hint.

This one will likely puke and now you can say you've "seen" a Franklin Whizzum. Hint.



This one won't bobble and now you can say you've "seen" a 224 Speedmire. Hint.





This one won't either and now you can say you've "seen" a 1-7" HawkHill. Hint.



This one won't either and now you can say you've "seen" a Kustom Klassik. Hint.



You'd do well to simply shut the fhuqk up,take notes and apply same. Hint.

Bless your heart,for not being able to "do" that "much".

Hint.

LAUGHING!.....................

My heavy 30-06 has about 6-7K rounds through it. Rifling is getting kinda janky in the throat area, but it still stacks the loads it likes.

Check out the two groups on the left side, bith RL-17/215 Berger.




SWFA 12X, Badger Ord rings, and Badger Ord 45 moa rail.






Long way of saying, I doubt your barrel is the problem.

HEAVY (solid) filled A5,Bart' MTU at 23" in 8.7" RPM. Marty 45 MOA 1913 welded to receiver,bolt handle fastened in similar fashion. One Brass Monkey worth of bolt handle. Matt's S/S bottom and Double-ounce S/S Shilen fire control system. LRTSi 3-12x G3 reticle(much prefer it to my LRTHi 18x's G2 reticle) and the fact that the 12X's track,while my 18X would not(they replaced it with LRTSi G3 18x). Whistles .796 BC's at nearly 2800fps,into wicked knots,via Lapooey false shouldered/positive headspaced Virgins.




Wouldn't change a fhuqking thing.

Hint....................(grin)

Oh my, how I love show and tell time....

Shooting all copper bullets? When was the last time you cleaned the barrel real well, like down to bare steel? Is it copper fouled? Barrels/rifles dont just go from shooting sub moa groups to 2+" groups overnight.

Agreed, I bet a good cleaning with Wipe-Out will take care of this issue....Good luck 👍......Hb

Not even your underwear as we hear it reported up from up there.....

Gotcha.

Get some of the Barnes solvent and see what you get.

Probably best done outside so the house doesn't smell of ammonia for the next 3 weeks and the misses won't be so upset.

OK, will try some Barnes solvent. You know that bottle of Swedes I have is quite a few years old and now I’m realizing something: I didn’t notice the strong ammonia smell when I used it the other day like I used to. I wonder if it’s gone bad.

Thanks for taking time to post that info Montana, that’s good.

(emphasis added)

I'm no expert, but if that statement is accurate, then there is still copper in the barrel. And, if this is the standard that the barrel has been cleaned to over multiple shooting sessions, then it is likely there are multiple layers of alternating copper and carbon. Meaning, the problem is worse than a little blue on the patch would suggest.

While home doing chores, set the gun in a cleaning cradle and clean the hell out of it. Alternate between a good carbon cleaner and a good copper cleaner. Allow to sit for an hour or two between applying each solvent and wiping it out (using solvents safe for long soaks). Do this outside so you don't have to worry about fumes making Mrs. McInnis mad. Do multiple cleaning cycles. Do so until the patches are as white coming out as going in.

If the gun still shoots bad with your now- pristine barrel, then you will know to move your attention to the sighting system.

JMO

I had the same thing happen to both of my 25-06's. Although much much sooner, like 50 rounds of 80grn Barnes TTSX doing 3,600fps. I used Sweets 7.62 cleaner and removed a ton of copper. Took about 12 rounds the other day for it to get the barrel of my M700 CDL right back where it was, bout 2/3 inch groups and an inch and a half high at 100 yards. I actually called barnes and the guy told me that when your groups open up, it is usally time to use a copper remover.

You may want to try JB Bore cleaner.

You mean Sweets?
I was fooling my self for years thinking Sweets was doing an adequate job, thought all that "rust" at the end of the barrel was rust, nope, Copper.

Wipeout, my new best friend.

I know I will catch hell for this but I had my best luck with the old Outers Foul Out II. Minimal work and squeaky clean bores in just a little bit.

This.

I learned the hard way with X bullets a long time ago.....
Don’t forget the JB Compound after the patches stop coming out blue—‘cause there will still be some copper in the barrel.

The monos with grooves addressed much of the copper fouling issue, but monos still copper foul a lot more than most conventional bullets—something that’s not mentioned much these days.

Although checking the scope mounts could still find the culprit.

Action screws?

If you don't mind, spill your guts on POA/POI, return to zero, and holding zero.

Have seen a couple threads over the past several months where folks have purchased and claim it's "good", but provide nothing other than platitudes as "evidence" to sway a me into a purchase decision.

The price isn't bad, and an illuminated reticle gets my interest.... but... it's a Burris. So, I remain skeptical.

If you are using Sweets don't leave it in the barrel for an extended period of time (per directions) and make sure not to mix it with any other solvent in the barrel, if you are cleaning the carbon with shooters choice, clean the shooters choice itself out before moving onto the copper solvent.

Wipe out, several over night applications until clean patches....

Wipeout is highly suggested. I may even try that product. I just loaded up some 175gr LRX bullets lastnight in fact, I'm hoping my barrel isn't a copper collector. We shall see and I may end up buying some wipeout as well....

Bad experience with Burris?

'ology,

Winter Cast & Blasts are a great time,to see if something will make the cut,so I purposely poked it upon a Beloved Fur Knocker. Hint.

It is SFP,Illuminated(obviously) and larger than I had pictured in my speculations. No parallax adjustment,.5 MOA ele/windage adjustments,96 MO/MO's of total ele travel and wears forgiving eye-relief,that is none too critical. Hint.





In extrapolation,to wares that are more mainstay,so the astute can get the vibe.



The illumination is daylight bright,this is #6 of 10 rheostat settings.



At least Burris will tell ya',while Reupold sweeps it under a rug. Hint.



Even in a 18" Krunchenticker,the Whizzum hauls ass and due ring height,I'm more than comfy with a 200yd zero. Don't take much correction,to get it to the Transonic Slip and 17's fhuqking fall apart there. Don't see myself doing a buncha erector dialing on it,as per it's Utilitarian Tasking and simply HOPE the fhuqking thing holds zero. Current rash of high pressure crisp/clear weather now and blue skies don't "test" a fhuqking thing. Once it flops,the Monsoons will return and I'll wear it slung all day,every day,whacking schit that fhuqks with Chrome. It's prolly even fun.(grin)

I'd certainly not wager on it's behalf,but it would be a nice suplize,if the fhuqking thig hangs in there. As per always,trigger time will resolve all and I rather like this platform,due balance/handling and relative Oooooomph. In fairness,I've never had a Burris scope,work worth a fhuqk. Have a goodly herd of FF3's and never a bobble there,though none ride anything more invigorating than a Grock 34.

Film at 11:00.

Hint....................

One thing about wipeout and my brass jag, I do get false readings but that barrel is freakin shiny clean.

A few minutes ago I went and looked down a takeoff barrel that I recently replaced, The muzzle end clearly shows "rust",

That barrel was cleaned for years with Sweets and a few others including Boretech,

Neither have cleaned that barrel sufficiently.

For the hell of it, I'll use wipeout today on that takeoff, and report back tomorrow.

Burris is making better and better stuff all the time. You hear of a hole hell of a lot less failures with Burris than you do Leupold. I much prefer their AR scopes with proper cantilever mounts myself. But to each their own...

'stick, thought we was going 'catching',

all you have to do is pay my airfare and I'm on my way.............

I had the same problem years ago... I THOUGHT I had a clean barrel. WIPEOUT made me a believer

I can walk from the front porch,to the first Chrome Patch...but the neighborhood kids fish it and I don't need to steal their thunder. Saturday's Mail is fhuqking goofy,in that you can only retrieve parcels betwixt Noon and 2:00PM,which puts a damper on thangs. I'm at ease in awaiting the Chinooking SE Hurricane and having it all to myself. Hint.



Nice to be tied wayyyyyy ahead,dabble some new wares,gun some come-ups and flail on the Reloading Press. Hoping my GFI Kenai 22/45 LITE holster arrives this afternoon,as a backer for the pending Burris puke.(grin)

Now as mounting systems go,the LAST fhuqking thing I want anywhere,is cantilever bullschit. I want my schit Direct Drive,if only because rifles don't shoot "tight"...they shoot loose. I'm rather at ease,in the sanctity of Tall 'Horn's and 40 MO/MO's tossed in the equation,as Centerfire Krunchentickers go. Though I've seen me 'Horn Rimfire Krunchentickers too. Prolly don't suck on a RAPR either,as ring spacing is a scope's BEST friend. Hint.



Hell...I lOVE 'em everywhere. Hint.




Though it's tough not love a 75 MOA rail and Marty Steel Max 50's. Hint.



Mebbe the OP's barrel is "shot out"? Hint. LAUGHING!

Wow +P++!..................

I see he is back. Offer still stands. I'm at Elmendorf AFB about once a month. Would enjoy meeting you. Bet I could adjust that attitude for ya. HINT. Of course you won't though. Coward hiding behind a keyboard

I seem to remember reading that match accuracy of a 308 Win would begin to degrade around 2000 rounds. "Decent" accuracy (subjective) was 2500-3000+ rounds. Depends how fast you shoot and other factors. A 30-06 would be in the same general round count, I would imagine.(3k ++). I'm guessing you are not at 50% of barrel life.

Decline of accuracy would be gradual, not a step function. Somethings else has changed. Different lot of bullets or primers? seating depth?, nicked crown? Could be copper fouling ( wipe out is good stuff).

Be patient. You will find the issue.

Just shot a 445 -21x at our state palma championship today with my .308 M70 palma rifle with approx 3900 rounds down the barrel. This rifle is subject to many 20+ round strings of 155s at 3000 fps in the Phoenix summer. There is something other than barrel wear going on...

You could buy a Teslong bore scope from Amazon for about $50 and you would be able to see any issues. Assuming the scope, mounts, and bedding/action screws have not changed and are good. To me, I don't thinking the number of rounds shot would mean a bad barrel/shot out yet. A copper fouled bore?

Clair,

You Whining Bitch...bless your heart. Hint. Congratulations?!?

Getting the fhuqk knocked outta ya',help your Dog Dick "wages".

Bless your heart.

Hint.

LAUGHING!..................

Dont get mentally stumped and fall in mouse turds .

Got to love keyboard commandos wanting to beat someone up over posts on an internet forum. LOL

McInnis, I don't know why your rifle went from a great shooter to awful overnight, but the absolute least likely reason is that a 30.06 barrel is toast so soon. Look elsewhere. You've gotten some good suggestions. Good luck.

Interesting.I had a Remington 700 Long Range 30-06 that did the exact same thing after about the same amount of rounds.I ran it fairly hard with a lot of my loads running around 3000fps with a 165gr bullet,but kept it clean of copper and never let the barrel get too hot.It was still under warranty so I sent it back under the warranty.After a five month wait,I received the rifle back with a new barrel and receiver.It shot a little better,but not that great,so I had it rebored to a 338-06 and it shoots great now.The only thing I could think of is maybe I fried the throat.All I know is when it happened it was not a gradual decline in accuracy,but a rather quick decline just like what happened to you.It wasn't the scope,mounts or bedding because it shoots great as a 338-06.

This is my list of suspects.
A load component has changed. Maybe a different lot of powder, brass preparation, or primer. Maybe seating depth or run out?
Did you change a bench technique in any way?
Have you taken it out of the stock and put it back with a different torque?
Good Luck

I cannot speak for McInnis,but in my case it wouldn't shoot anything that it did before under 2" in any bullet or weight.I have a pile of targets where this rifle shot under 1/2" and in my case Remington did replace the barrel under warranty so I guess there was a problem found.

Appreciate the info. Stick.

If it holds up and retains zero, I think it would be worth it to me for a couple applications simply for the illuminated dot.

Now, if only SWFA would/could offer an illuminated dot in the fixed 6 and the 3-9x40...

So I went to town yesterday and bought a bottle of Barnes Copper Remover. I opened the bottle and the smell of ammonia nearly knocked me out and that made me realize that over time the bottle of Sweet's that I have must have lost its potency. So I cleaned with it, brushed, cleaned again and took it to the range this morning. But same results - three groups of about 2" at 100 yards.

And although it wasn't my intent to confirm that the scope wasn't a problem, I took my new MarkV that has the old scope that this rifle had when the trouble started and it shot a 0.4375" group with .277" 130 grn TTSX bullets. We have a custom gun shop here in Cody. I'm going to take it in there and let him check it out with his borescope and see what he says. I really wonder if I did something to damage the crown in the past. Either way, I've been wanting a .35 Whelen AI for a while. I might be really close to getting one.

Again, I thank everyone for their helpful comments. Well, almost everyone.

I would absolutely try some JB Bore Cleaner on a nylon brush/patch. 25 strokes in the first half of the barrel, then 25 more full length. Doing that routine twice won't hurt anything. I developed this method after I bought a borescope. All that soaking the barrel nonsense is just a huge waste of time. The problem is a hard-as-glass layer of carbon in the throat that squeezes the hell out of the bullet and makes pressures go wonky. It looks like bluing inside the barrel when viewed with a scope. You will likely feel the difference when using it too. It will have more resistance in the throat area when you start. Sweets doesn't work very well unless you whip it to a froth with the cleaning rod btw.

'ology,

Fhuqk it...it do nobody ANY favors,not to treat glass like for like. I'll poke it aboard my HEAVY Vudoo and shoot the turrets,as per their design.

I barely have 85 or so of said glass and if there were Illumination,it;'d put me wellllll over a hunnert.(grin)

Film at 11:00.

As a none too "surprising" aside,the OP remains a CLUELESS Fhuqking Idiot and the Shenanigans are a [bleep] riot! Droolers are like Moths to The Flame.

Hint.......................

I heard the new boolits wear out a barrel REAL QUICK. haha

Hey thanks FC, I hadn’t considered carbon build up. I’ll give JBs a chance before I give up on this barrel.

My current AI .308 barrel is right at 5,000 rounds and still just over 1/2 MOA. 6,000 - 8,000 is common. Saw one on a AI, not my rifle, go to 14,000 rounds.

Yes, Sweets will lose its effectiveness over time. The fresh stuff, like the Barnes, will just about lift your scalp if you sniff it. The other thing that helps it work is to put it on a loose patch on a loop, and pump it vigorously up and down the bore, until you get a froth on it.

If the bore's good and clean though, a few other possibilities include damage to the muzzle, including rod wear as well as dings etc or a bulge near the muzzle. I'd also be taking the barreled action out of the stock and checking that something didn't get caught in there, and that there's no evidence of rubbing, such as from a stock that has moved. At the same time I'd also check all the action screws and, if it is a timber stock, look for any degradation/oil soaked in,or cracks. I'd also take the rings off and check the screws attaching the bases to the rifle.

HTH

offer stands. Once or twice a month I'm in Anchorage and would love to give you a chance to speak to me that way in person. Never happen though. Keep hiding behind a keyboard.

I'm coming in a little late. Let me just throw in my $.02.

1) I'm a big Ed's Red fan. If I saw a loss of accuracy like that-- one that I couldn't tie to so a known insult-- I'd slather Ed's Red in the barrel and put it away for a few months. I like Ed's Red, because it does amazing things given time. I take my deer guns and give them a rough cleaning in December and then take them out in June or so and run a patch through them and it's like magic all the crud that comes out. Those same barrels, had I used Hoppes, would have given me a clean patch in December.

2) In regards to copper buildup. I can only give you my experience with the Mauser From Hell. It is now one of the most accurate deer rifles in my collection, but when I first got it, it was minute-of-bushell-basket. One of the problems was a monstrous copper buildup. I found a process on a Mauser forum. I was hesitant to try it, but I figured it would either work or I'd rebarrel the rifle to something else besides the original 8X57.

Here's what I did.

I felt like a Mad Scientist

It worked wonderfully. Were I to be faced with copper build-up again, I'd not hesitate to try it.

Stick, what rail/ring setup do you have on that Tikka? What height are the rings?

40 MO/MO Mountain Tac'...because there's not a better way to do it. Hint. Congratulations?!?




SWFA Low's,as I've dozens and dozens in service,less an issue and they mount lower than most. Hint.

Rifle is certainly better,after the punch. Hint.



Couldn't stand it and went Halibut Blueprint on Little Big Gun,then swapped glass for more color. Hint. Laughing!




Typical Bombproof setup,by design.

Hint....................

Slick setup, thanks.

shaman, you have a way with words. Good stuff.