Is it normal to be considered a suspect when talking to these folks?

The reason I ask; I stopped by the station in Fairbanks to offer them the no-strings-attached use of one of my sleds if they needed such a thing during Arctic Man. The trooper I talked to never asked for details, never looked at the sled I brought along; all he wanted was my driver license, and then he disappeared to talk to his superiors.

Overall a pretty lame performance IMO, or am I just an ordinary disgruntled Alaskan citizen who is acting butt-hurt?

With the AK State Troopers, yes, you are a suspect for existing unfortunately.

Why would you offer up one of your sleds when the troopers have plenty of their own?? Seems like a nice offer but may come across as a bit odd...

What was his story upon returning from talking with said superiors?

He said they didn't want to expose the State to any liability for their use. Could mean a couple of things I suppose. I'm cool with that; being turned down was in the realm of expectation.



I have no idea what they have. I would assume they probably might have a few plastic moose hide sleds which are hardly ideal, especially if they needed to haul a an injured person. What did seem odd was that he needed to see ID without actually defining what my offer was. If they had what they need and are fully equipped, who I am is irrelevant, I would think.

Your papers please

Sieg Heil!


It's probably nothing. It just seems like every time I turn something over to them -evidence they need against some punk generally- that's the last I see or hear of the issue, and the item of property. And then they substitute suspicion for gratitude. And they wonder why they get attitude from people so often.

You have been assimilated.

This is >>> <<< my "Assimilated Pride" face

um...thank you?!

I got asked for my hunting license while working on my 6 wheeler on a pullout near Tok 2 years ago he wrote down my info? Kinda thought great now I am a suspect. Can they ask for a hunting or fishing license if you are in the area and not actively hunting or fishing?

Sure they can ask.

You are free to tell them to GFY if you are not hunting.

Welcome to the new Alaska

They've recruited quit a few L48ers and they bring their DSMF attitudes up with them.

Certainly, it doesn't take many to poison the well. I just wish the high honchos understood and communicated that - and didn't put up with the shenanigans that it involves. I might have sent one of those 'high honchos' my thoughts on the matter. It just seems like we should all have the same goals. The news kept saying the Troopers might not have a presence at Arctic Man due to monetary issues this year. I though, "Heck, I'll at least make an offer that won't cost them a thing." And the best they could do was kick dirt at me? WTF?

Spending the school year in Fairbanks has certainly turned my view of Alaska upside down as it is. I just hate getting more and more confirmations of it.

This.

Ahh I was thinking sleds as in a snow machine not a pull behind sled. Thanks for the clarification

About half of them in FAI are in training and will run info for warrants just because they are training. The older fellows like Piscoya or Hildebrand would probably take you up on your offer.

And cops wonder why there is a prevalent "us against them" attitude in this country. They perpetuate the negativity and distrust as much as the criminals do. All us upstanding, law abiding citizens are caught in the middle. We don't hate the cops but we realize that they don't like us. Too bad and at some point they'll wish they hadn't alienated us; they'll need us but we won't need them...

When they pull you over while you are trying to make a living, and one trooper demands your time, while the other one tries to get your clients to fess up to breaking the law with absolutely no probable cause other than you are out fishing, I lose respect in a hurry.

Not all Troopers act this way, but enough of them do. We do have a few good ones down here though. When the big city troopers come down to help out, things get frustrating. And, I'm not the only one who as noticed this..

We had 2 local wardens some years back.

One might check you once, to make sure you bought a new license and then he would chat if he saw you or wave.....keeping up with whats going on was about it. But he was always after criminals.

The other one helped in my hunter ed classes. Worked at a sporting goods store. Sold me my new license one day around 515pm.... I went dove hunting, he met me at the ramp around dark and asked for my license.... I dont' think he ever checked the birds...

You can tell which ones are good and which are AH/s

I have had relayed to me some details of police and trooper reports as well as statements made in court that make it clear that law enforcement in general looks at constitutional rights as an impediment to their job. You need to know your rights and exercise them, or they will be trampled under jack booted foot.

Yeah, 'sled' is one of the more abused words, generically used almost to the point of having no specific meaning.

Yeah, I've felt sorry for them when they've dropped into the village and lent them a motorized 'sled' too.

I miss second ave on a saturday night,back in 1979

Well, as long as you only missed one....

They seem pretty well equipped...

I heard they were only expecting to have a bare-bones ground game this year; could be wrong, I don't really know.

I'm headed out to AMan on weds...they got lots of sleds/rigs for getting a guy/body out ..u offering a shed ..cuts into what they request in their budget !! Lol ...ten years ago I had to go to the trouper shed at a man to use sat phone as I loss all the gears in my trans but 1st gear...top speed of 18 mph,rpms at 3400 !...they took my info..and then I got a speech on my dead DL (one month from my birthday).... A warning for driving there...and the Big speech /if I was caught driving a auto while there, or on the way back! Azzzzzwipes...

Welcome to the new Alaska....

Several decades ago I brought in a smal for- meat bear for required sealing to Fairbanks adf&g. Mid summer. They obviously believed the only reason to kill a bear was for "trophy", making it abundantly known thru body language. It's the last time I ever went into that office for any

Attitude to the public determines the level of voluntary cooperation they can expect.

Might be your "I Like Donald" bumper sticker

No one likes a cop.... Until you need one

45 years now and I've never needed one. Never even close to needing them. I'm prepared to handle my life and the lives of my family. You might feel safer with a lot of cops around but I don't, in fact it's exactly the opposite.

Seriously? Quite the opposite. This was an offer to assist, as I've done many times over the years. I've never failed to assist with SAR, and I've never accepted compensation. But this isn't about me or bashing on cops in general. But I do have a hard time with the idea that I am a suspect when I make a simple gesture of civic assistance......99% of us are simply seeking the same goals - I think.

Klik,
You were ill treated by a cop with no manners. They shouldn't have had to be taught how to act with your request. He should have thanked you for the offer and said they had the equipment they needed and would not be allowed to accept such an offer. There should have been a hand shake rather than a request to see your DL.
Sometimes common sense just can't be taught.

A further thought - how embarrassing would it be for the cops to take someone up on an offer, only to find he had a rap sheet a leg long, or the piece of equipment had been reported stolen...., but I agree fully with bigwhoop.

Definately not handled well.

Oh, I completely agree. I would have had zero issue had he wanted to see ID before we shook hands after making arrangements for the loan as I was leaving, just to make sure it was all topside. He never asked to look at it, never saw it, didn't care, but he wanted to run my license. (He asked to see it, then he walked through the doors with it.) I will never darken their door again unless I am summoned.


I know many criminals are stupid and all, but give 'em a break! That would take the cake if a fool made an offer than would benefit them in no way, yet exposed them selves to the risk of being caught.

Yup. The biggest problem is, they can't get enough qualified applicants from within state, so they have to go Outside.

Then, add in the training that emphasizes "Us vs. Them" and you have a recipe for lack of respect. On both sides.

It ain't the same outfit I worked for back in the 80's, that's for sure!

Ed

That's what you get when you have an agency that understands the difference between "law enforcement" and "peacekeeping".

Plus, that's the result of a cadre of "old guys" who yank young punks up by the short hairs when they get full of themselves.

That doesn't exist at A.S.T anymore.

Ed

I've NEVER had a good brown shirt experience and I've had my fair share of them. They've always been wrong, just as they always wanted to act tough.

A shame to hear that on the brown shirts. Here locally, I"ve had very few negative game warden contacts, and very few negative LEO contacts, but I think the times are changing here too...

I could tell you story after story of the idiot brown shirt encounters.

Thats a shame to hear.

I may not be a Sour Dough, having only been here since '65,
But I have had my fair share of run ins, with both the brown shirts, and blue. IMO, yes, some can be arrogant, self importants jerks, but for the most part, I have found the majority to be very proffesional and all around "Good Guys". Some do abide by thier interpitation of "The letter of the Law", while others tend to understand that to error is human!

Only ones I"ve run into, have been retired, both great guys!

We did make a mistake and run a red light in ANC... those guys were super about it, I could care less if they wrote it, it was my fault. They did not.

But we sure might be heading towards worse over all...

So... is everyone that has a truly bad experience calling the troopers to let them know they've got (at the minimum) an idiot out there with a gun writing tickets? I'm not talking about Klik's encounter necessarily, I'm talking about incorrect enforcement of the law.

I'm certainly not, and that is something that needs to change.

I'm sure that's exactly what they (him) were counting on.

By reading the comments, so far, I am lead to believe my encounters with the Alaska State Troopers are the exceptions to the rule. I have never had a bad encounter with a Trooper, and I've been checked in the field via pick-up truck, snowmachine, 4-wheeler, boat, helicopter, and float plane.

I have heard several 1st-person accounts of very negative interactions with the troopers, from close friends of mine, so I do believe they happen. I have just been lucky, I guess.

It has pretty much become universal procedure everywhere to "Identify everyone" before conducting any further conversation of any kind period.

Unfortunately this policy may actually be preventing some very serious crimes from being reported.

Just like some stops of any kind, get off on whatever footing the person stopped says first... there are also AH's in every trade.

I try to always be very polite, just like I would to anyone I meet...I"ve had very few negative encounters with LEO overall wherever I've been. But I sure have had a couple that were guilty until proven innocent. And one where the warden was wrong, and I called his supervisor to let him know. He was writing a ticket until I mentioned his boss by name. And that his boss had said it was legal.....

even a polite explanation of why would be beneficial imo

That's always been my way too, and that is why I handed him the license on request. It was when he took it and walked through the doors that it occurred to me that he was possibly going to run my name. There's nothing I have to worry about, so that doesn't bother me, but the idea any ordinary person's ID should be run, does. If I want that, I'll go to the airport; and I avoid those places as much as I possibly can.

"but the idea any every ordinary person's ID should be run, does"

Hope you don't mind me adjusting your statement because I have had many similar experiences while trying to be a law abiding "upstanding Citizen" and help out law enforcement.

As a Minister it is very offensive to immediately be suspected and treated as a "guilty criminal" or "accomplice" right out of the box. Because of this I now very seldom go out of my way to "do my duty" as a law abiding Citizen.

Everyone is a suspect, Everyone is guilty, Everyone is a Criminal and they just haven't been caught yet. And it is the "Duty" of every Officer to be the first to catch them.

Seriously..."Innocent until proven Guilty" is the absolute extreme opposite of the true current mindset. The current MO is to process as many "into the system" as possible because in reality our current Justice System is a very lucrative Business.

Luckily in rural US you don't see the guilty until innocent that often. Usually know all our locals by first name. See them in the walmart and grocery store.

That helps

the disconnect of larger cities hurts.

I can certainly see the guilty until innocent side and where it comes from. Some days in my job as an inspector my test to see if you are lying, is to see if you open your mouth. But thats not most days.

Still, LEO should certainly have more respect for folks until they show reason otherwise.

And for me, if you get pulled over and first words to LEO are can't you catch a real criminal, sorry to interupt your donut run or such.... I'd just assume your day is going to get worse.

Me and the sled.... When he came back, I'd have asked WTF did you do? IN nice words and move on from there. And follow it up with a letter to a higher up as needed.

Unfortunately this relationship is usually AFTER they have ran you "Clean" once before or have knowledge that you are indeed also "Part of the system" or your kids happen to be on the same ball team with their kids.

This used to be how it was in Rural America...Not any longer, you just haven't met the "New Officer who just moved into town" yet...

For the most part its not after they run you here. We have one local that needs to grow up and chill out though.

But for the most part locally, you are fine until you prove you are not.

For my tastes and their safety most are a bit TOO laid back.

Heck I"m contemplating starting to carry 24/7 regardless.... just from whats happening in the world.

Even though my sentiments are against the current extremism in policies I have to say that the situation you describe here could also be a mistake and a detriment to the safety of a Community and it's Officers. There was a time when a fair, just and respectful "balance" was actually practiced.

I think I'll use this opportunity to 'make lemonade'. If I try to promote my product in the future it will be like this:

The Alaska State Troopers agree, "These sleds are so fine that, even sight unseen, we know they were stolen!"

Sounds like your sleds are really .... HOT.....

Yes they are.........as kindling.....

I didn't realize you worked for AST. I thought you were APD only.

My whole career has been in rural departments starting in the VPSO program. I hardly recognize them anymore either.

Some guys are just wound up too tight especially newer or just younger ones in general. Sometimes they get excited about "results" and dive in too fast without a plan or an objective and get a little spun in the process. I know. I still have to reel them in on occasion. It takes some years of experience to settle down a little.

The ID thing doesn't necessarily have to be approached immediately, you can have the conversation starting with just a name and informal conversation to break the ice, feel the person out a little and get them comfortable with talking to you. You can break into the ID/drivers license request a little further on.

Thank you for the open and honest dialog about this practice. I understand the lack of patience and "tact" you speak of when it comes to new Officers but I am still curious about why presentation of ID was even necessary in the situation presented by the OP here?

As I understand it probable cause of a possible crime being committed or the need to file additional official paperwork would be the only legal justifications for an ID request or detainment even at the Department front counter. I ask this because when ID was requested and taken away to the back he was actually being "detained" by legal definition. Right?

It's hard to say. We all (mostly) go to the same academy, but the Trooper recruits have an additional department specific 4 weeks they attend. Some of this has to do with their policies.

I also know that just about all their encounters with the public are at least documented through dispatch to account for a public contact and their time. ID request could either be to have a name to go with the public contact or they could have run the OP just to make sure there no wants or warrants.

Well, no one ever called me a quick study, but I do learn. If my value as a citizen is largely a data point, I will keep that in mind in avoiding future interactions. I have no interest in helping another eager ladder-climber earn a merit badge at my expense. Nothing positive comes of it.

I've only had positive encounters with the AST. But then again, the only officer I have had an encounter is also a family friend. He's also the local fish & game cop for the island he lives on.

His office is an old Piper Super Cub with floats. Great guy with real world common sense.

Thanks for being my friend Stan S.

Could one say, if you want my ID you can't have it in case its self incriminating? LOL.

Generally speaking I still feel that about 80% of LEO are really just normal great folks in our area. I can't comment about other areas and wonder about big cities... but as noted I met two of the best nice folks from APD around 3AM some years ago... I"d have had ZERO issues with a ticket either.

This.

Unfortunately, the value of all of us as citizens isn't much more than a data point. Look at how many census' are taken in between the Constitutionally stipulated 10 year census'.

The bigger govt gets, the less value you are as an individual.

A good example is about three years ago DPS approved changes to the traffic accident report forms every agency in AK uses to document motor vehicle accidents.

The old 12-208 form was actually pretty simple. It had a series of boxes around the border of the form and it took a few minutes using a code key to write in the codes in the boxes then you could get down to the nuts and bolts of vehicles, drivers, seating positions and the narrative of the event itself. Add in few photos, recorded interviews and a diagram of the scene and you were pretty much done.

With the new form, you can spend HOURS entering in the statistical codes before ever entering one word about the chain of events themselves.

Believe me, those burdensome forms aren't dragged out unless there is absolutely no way to avoid doing so, which usually means a fatality or a serious injury at the very least.

It's all about the (formerly)Almighty Greenback Dolla.