Im your opinion are classic wood stock rifles a thing of the past. I ask this because im a left hand user wanting to have a few more Ruger Hawkeye lefty rifles and they are nowhere to be found.

Im all albout the new plastic stock rifles and newer materials and was an early adopter of them before they became really popular but i also desire my wood and classic Ruger 77 Hawkeye as well. Will these be just a memorybof the past in our near future? Also the prices of things are scary.

Not at my house .

Mine, either.

But as us ole farts move from the stage, who knows...

It's a different bunch coming up to replace us.

DF

A beautiful rifle like a beautiful woman will never go out of style. Now is the time to jump into the deep end and get the good stuff.

Not at my home

If my stuff is relegated to the scrap heap of time after I'm gone I won't care- I'll be dead.

Are you talking about matchlocks, flintlocks, caplocks or modern contraptions such as outside-hammer, tube-magazine lever-actions?

Nor mine. Four walnut and blued steel using grade rifles in work now in my shop:
256 Newton, 275 Rigby, 338-06, 9.3x62.

Keep the faith,
Rex

Well im talking mostly about things like the Ruger 77, Winchester 70, and mostly Mauser type derived rifles and even our classic leverguns.

Early on i was an user of plastic and tacticool items long before it became mainstream but im also a left hand person and prefer a classic left hand bolt action and levergun because they fit me and work for me. For instance im a big 30-30 levebrgun fan, but sometimes also use a Ruger scout rifle or ruger compact rifle or maybe an model 71 winchester too. From what is out on the market currently and seeing how private equaity interests have gobbled up the industry im not hopeful we'll have anything other than Ruger All Americans and other cheaply made machine/robot manufactueered arms in our future. It seems the trend

I’ve only stainless/synthetic despite wood/blue drawing at my heart strings.

There are even a few younger gun smiths who are planning on adding blueing to their services...

Younger = 50 these days.. only the older guys do blueing right now, or the mega shops... I plan to do it just because it’s the right thing to do.

From what I've read, there isn't much of a choice up your way. From my understanding, Alaska (atmoshereic and weather conditions?) are hard on a firearm.

Probably a big difference between hunting Alaska and the Ohio Valley.

Yes, as far as new rifles go I think the classic deep blue and walnut are doomed, the new generation is generally not interested in "fudd" rifles. Not interested enough to pay box-new classic rifle prices at any rate. Manufacturers have already dropped most of the blue and walnut guns and in many cases it didn't that happen recently either. Leupold no longer makes glossy scopes. Etc. If it's something that starred in a video game or movie it will stick around a bit longer, for example guns that evoke the old west, meaning anything from Marlin Guide Guns to actual replicas.

Those "classic rifles" are old man guns. Guns young people think are cool look more like this, according to what I've seen posted on the internet:

I like wood too, got a few plastic rifles, but nothing like walnut or maple.

Its difficult enough to source a proper LH rifle with wood and controlled feed and even sometimes a good levergun. But now companies like CZ is eliminating the 550 line and no more leftnhand 375 h&h, no more MRC, Winchester 70 in lefty are reare as hens teeth and Ruger 77 is avaailable maybe in 6.5 Creedmoore which doesnt interest me at all. Its getting nigh impossible to find a good left hand 270 or 30-06. Thankfully Ruger supplies us with the wonderful scout rifle in lefty but i wish there were more special runs or preorder options. Kimber makes amazing rifles but not left handed but across the industry im seeing fewer classic rifles and its even worse for us afflicted with not bejng righties.

Those "classic rifles" "old man guns" don't seem to be going down in value. Ever notice what a pre-64 anything is going for these days? I doubt that a tacticool levergun will ever be anything than a passing fad that is passing fast. Fads are fads, nothing more.

OTOH .......... They don't call the classics classic for nothing. When people grow up, they learn to appreciate such things.

Nor mine ..... Just picked up and early 50s M-721 300H&H in the rare BDL version to replace one or two synthetic rifles as a part of the downsizing / UPGRADING program.

the answer to your question can be found at the gun rack in any lgs. few young buyers are wanting wood/blue. manufacturers recognize this and their products represent what the "majority" want, which is plastic, lower price, and virtual "throw away" just like tvs, electronics, computers, phones, and a myriad other items of today. us old folks grew up on wood/blue, thus we use and value same. the generation before us (my 1st son is 45) like wood but has more plastic guns. his kids have all plastic guns. so, the answer to your question, in my opinion, is "yes".

My 15 year old daughter is moving up from her Ruger 77/357 to a 7mm-08 this year. I pretty much gave her free reign to pick anything she wanted for a rifle with a definite "push" towards a S/S for ease of care. I showed her just about everything out there and she only wanted walnut/blued, finally settling in a model seven cdl.
So, there's still hope for the youngsters!

I like blued/walnut as much as anybody but I also like the modern forearms. What I don't like is when they take a classic like the model 77 and thread the barrel on all the models, do away with integrals scope mounts so they all wear picatinney rails, and discard offerings like the 270 and 30-06 which are my favorites. I'm a model 77 fan but they no longer make a 77 that excites me.

Punks. They don't know if I fired 5 or 6 times. In all this excitement I kinda lost track myself.

If that thing's pointed at me, Dan, I'm not feeling lucky.

I think Cooper offers LH rifles, albeit push-feed.

I think the main problem of blued steel and walnut classic guns is that they are built too damn solidly.
There's so many of them out there in perfectly servicable condition that many people interested in that sort of thing are just going to buy them used and who can blame them?
Firearms manufacturers get the short end of the stick here because they really can't profit off of used guns being sold, so the marketing departments think up some grand new trend to sell new guns with.
With the state a lot of modern hunting and firearms magazines are in, it's an easy thing to shill even the worst of garbage to the general populace. You can basically create demand with a snap of your finger that way.
It's only natural if you think about it: The whole AR-15 accessory market today is probably larger than the entire US firearms industry 50 or 60 years ago. A light here, a grip there and you can keep raking in cash for years with the same gun.
Of course left handers like OP are a little screwed by this development since lefty rifles probably only make up a few percent of the ones already in circulation.

They

They are already gone. Classic wood stocks are aftermarket or custom alterations, and have been for a while. As most here know, they are only available on high priced firearms. The only way to get them now is to shell out big bux, even when buying used.

Plastic is the new wood.
You cannt stop progress.
Rust never sleeps.

If you’re talking about the Hunter, the dovetails remain. They drilled the receiver for a rail, and provide one, which is fine. Options are good. Same setup came with my Mini-14 Ranch. Not crazy about the threaded bulge, but wouldn’t stop me from buying. Haven’t seen other wood-sticked ones with threads or rails.

A thing of the past? No, but they're lacking in practicality. I'm not knocking around a classic blued-and-walnut rifle in the truck, backcountry, or underground. I don't feel bad about beating up a matte/polymer rifle or shotgun.

That's true, but most folks don't knock around their stainless polymer guns either.

For sure, my farm and truck guns are all either disposable junk or ss/synthetic.

My upland shotgun was completely redone when I bought it, including re-cut checkering, re blued barrels and re-colorcase hardened the side plates. If I shot waterfowl, the gun would be stainless synthetic.

Horses for courses....

I love good wood and bright blueing. I do have a couple of synthetic stocked rifles, and they have there uses. If classics are doomed and nobody wants them, then a bigger selection for me as I would be interested.

No, classic rifles aren't doomed. But as one of the more perceptive posters noted, there are zillion out there already--which is why there's no reason for most big rifle manufacturers to continue making more. Here are a couple of examples:



The top rifle is a German custom 8x57, probably made about a century ago. Bought it for $600 at a gun show--about the same price as many new synthetic-stocked bolt rifles today.

The one below is a custom .30-06 built on a G33/40 Mauser action. Great work, nice wood, and very accurate. Got it a couple years ago for $1500. Might have to to 10 times as much to have a similar rifle built today.

There are a BUNCH of similar old custom rifles out there.

The same thing applies to Savage 99's. Some 99 fans still whine about why Savage never started making the "old 99" again after CNC machinery made it possible The reason they didn't is there are millions of original, old 99s that can be purchased for maybe $600--again, about the same price as many new synthetic-stocked bolt rifles today.

Wood for me, hated every plastic stocked rifle I have ever owned and have eventually sent them all down the road.

Nothing say class like a savage 99.

The day doesn' t go by on this 24 hr campfire that somebody isn't talking about his next build. Several more often than not, another blued and walnut gun is disassembled, rebarreled, restocked with a syn stock , $200 trigger, butt ugly talleywhacker scope mounts ,cerakoted , laser etched decorations and a 1500 dollar scope to make it all work. Not even mentioning the thread jobs for brakes, cans and flash eliminators and tactical dodaws hanging off it. Don't want to even mention rebarreling cause the twist ain't right for the latest dodaw bullet or they that they had it cut and crowned 3 times and it's still to short. God damn people look in the mirror to see who is making blued / walnut go away, he looks like you or some asswipe on a tv hunting show. Jfc MB

Hardly a day goes by one somebody is complaining about how someone else spends their money.

Everyone and everything is doomed, eventually.

I do not believe that the big rifle manufacturers stopped making them because there are a zillion out there. Production of wooden stocked rifles is more costly than plastic ones. I believe the manufacturers do not see a market for them - except as special order firearms or custom shop pieces.

oldpinecricker would have to confirm, but it appears he cannot find them and wonders, "Will these be just a memory of the past in our near future?"

To me, this sounds like he is asking about new production. If this is the case, classic, wood stocked rifles are a thing of the past, unless you lay down big bucks for a new production rifle with optioned wood. If you are content with a used, classic rifle, the number of these will diminish over time.

To that end, he would like to know if anyone knows the status of left handed Ruger 77s. He appears to be looking for some.

"I ask this because im a left hand user wanting to have a few more Ruger Hawkeye lefty rifles and they are nowhere to be found."

oldpinecricker, as you know, the left hand market is small to begin with, so a used rifle of the kind you want will be harder to find. I think that you will have to look hard to get what you want.

I feel the same way, nothing like blued steel high gloss scopes and walnut furniture.

And I have a local gun shop here that is really more a tactical shop but will take anything in on consignment including classics.

They price them low telling people that there is no demand for them here because you can't hunt with a rifle in Jersey, only shotgun or muzzleloader.
These classics are what I call "Catskill Rifles" in that old timers used to hunt New York State and gave it up due to age or health. For the most part have been sitting in a closet or gun cabinet for years till the man dies and the family just wants it gone because no one in the family hunts anymore.

I've picked up in the past 2 years(stolen really) 3 Remington 760 pumps, 3 Marlin 336's in .35 Remington, and 2 Remington 700 BDL's, ALL very clean with little use. One 760 was so dusty from sitting in a closet that you couldn't see into the muzzle, it was solid dust.

One of the 760's was a first year production, March 1952, absolutely clean for it's age and I got it for $200!!!!! Hard to find a good .22 rimfire today for $200 !!!!

So I guess some of us make out due to the fact that "taste" in guns change, I know I for one will buy classics whether I need them or not, but I am most definitely "old school".

Old Pinecriker,
Sounds as if you may be about ready for a double rifle or two or maybe more interesting lever action rifles such as an 1895 .405 WCF or 50 .110 .
Both the DR and lever gun are ambidextrous and I shoot mine both righty and lefty.

I have bolt guns too, but REALLY like my levers and doubles. Either can be peep sighted or scoped or both.
Beretta .45-70 DR


Simson Suhl .405 WCF DR with red deer hind


See Avatar for 1895 .405 WCF with Cape Buffalo.

Steve,

"I do not believe that the big rifle manufacturers stopped making them because the are a zillion out there. Production of wooden stocked rifles is more costly than plastic ones. I believe the manufacturers do not see a market for them - except as special order firearms or custom shop pieces."

Well, duh!

No, manufacturers did not stop making wood-stocked, blued rifle JUST because there are already a zillion out there. But that was a major factor. Why wouldn't it be, when anybody who wants a "classic" Savage 99 (or even a "shooter" pre-'64 Model 70) can purchase one TODAY for a price comparable to a new, plastic-stocked rifle?

The overall trend in rifle manufacturing, especially since WWII, has been toward quicker, cheaper mass-production methods. Among the first examples are the Remington 721/722, introduced in 1947 for a MUCH lower price than the Model 70 Winchester, due to methods in large part developed when Remington made 1903A3 rifles during the war, including button rifling and stamped sheet-steel parts.

Some shooters complained about this back then, which sounds very much like the complaints here. Yet the 721/722 rifles succeeded, to the point where they morphed into the highest-selling bolt-action centerfire rifle of the last half of the 20th century, the Remington 700. The 700 essentially killed off the pre-'64 M70, despite the 70 being made the "classic" way, and the 700 having stamped ALUMINUM parts, and impressed checkering. (In fact many hunters today consider the 721/722 "classics," because they have wood stocks.)

But the big point is that the average hunter or shooter has never considered "classic" all that important. If the rifle functions correctly, why not? Another good example is the Savage Model 23, another wood-stocked "cheap" rifle that shot more accurately than more expensive "classic" rifles. This was because Savage used various less-expensive, quicker manufacturing techniques, including machining the very simple bolt-action out of the rear of the barrel.

ALL such stuff (including injection-molded synthetic stocks) has been the overall trend for rifle manufacturing ever since mass-produced rifles appeared. But many rifle loonies tend to bitch about every change made since THEY started shooting, even though they (if they really want to) can buy the "classic" rifles of their youth for very affordable prices.

John,

Profit has always been the bottom line. That's a given. I responded to your 'zillion' remark.

I was trying to help with oldpinecricker's problem, so back to that.

oldpinecricker, to repeat, you're going to have to keep your eyes peeled for used pieces or shell out big bux to a custom shop.

Bought a Sako Forester and a Ruger #1, both from the 60s.
Dunno if they were sold to a shop or traded in on something.

Plastic and mag fed is hot.

Keep a few bucks on hand in case somebody dumps a classic. Seems to be more common now.

Steve,

And what was wrong with my "zillion" remark, except the fact that zillion isn't real number?

But that does not change the fact that Savage made 3 million 99s, and at least a dozen manufacturers made far more walnut-stocked sporters based on the basic 98 Mauser action? Ever since non-corrosive primers appeared in the 1920's, centerfire rifle barrels generally don't wear out unless shot far more than the average hunter ever shoots--even most varmint hunters.

Plus, as more countries make it harder for their citizens to own firearms, more and more nice used guns from those countries show up in other countries. This is particularly true in the U.S., but I would assume its happening in Canada as well.

This means A bunch of used "classic" rifles AREavailable to most Campfire members--even drillings. The price of used drillings has dropped in the past decade, for the same reason the price of used side-by-side shotguns has dropped: They're being imported in bunches (though not zillions) from countries apparently afraid that drillings and SxS shotguns will be used to rob and murder average citizens--or even overthrow those countrys' governments. You and I know this is BS, but there it is.

In the past year I've purchased two used drillings for the same price as ONE would go for a decade ago. Same deal with a good British SXS 12-gauge shotgun. Again, the reason is far more good used guns available, which compete with new guns--especially since the Internet has made shopping for used guns far easier.

John, I didn't say there was anything wrong with it. I merely responded to it.

I do not believe that you addressed oldpinecricker's concern.

Yep, especially in January as credit cards come due and people realize they over did Christmas and need to raise some cash.

I love the looks of a classic rifle. My problem is I like the utility of a modern synthetic rifle. I always shook my head at the vertical gripped rifles and high scope mounting until I started using them. The vertical grips on a Manners or McMillan tactical stock make it much easier to shoot accurately when not shooting off of a bench. I found a higher scope mount does as well. Now there are extremes to both of these that don't make sense but you really got to shoot them to see the utility of them. But I am a sucker for a Tang Safety Ruger or a Wood stocked stainless rifle.

The synthetic stocked rifle is practical, but aesthetically dead.

It's got no Soul.

FWIW, LSI has Howa Walnut Hunter rifles in SS and blued, even walnut-stocked Minis in the online catalog. I’ve seen the SS models on GB. All is not lost.

This year I’ve picked up two nice classics, a very fancy FN custom for $799, and a very light Heym .308 on a military-style 98 action for $695. They both will get out and hunt when it’s their turn, but there are a few synthetic-stocked ones at the head of the que.

Cooper who built a good part of their business in turning out accurate semi-custom rifles with nice wooden stocks is now selling more synthetic stocked guns than wooden one. It's the way of the world at this time but it too will change and in a few years folks will be seeking out wood and blue again. Eventually there will be a lot of PRS and other long range rifles out there for very little money, everything changes. it's just a matter of time.

drover

Personally I think the trend should be encouraged, and then maybe we few will get the pick of some really nice old rifles for some small consideration instead of having to hock our first born to some jew at a bank just to have a chance at something interesting.

Old pine,

Of the left hand offerings from Ruger, top of the list is a Ruger African. It's a well designed, classic throwback if I've ever seen one. I have one right beside an original oberndorf sporter in the gun cabinet, it looks right at home:

https://www.ruger.com/search/lefthanded/rifle

I believe this to be the case also in the past 3 months I've picked up a m99, 03A3, 2 HVA sporters. 3/4 estate sale victims 1 of the 4 turned over for a syn stock. Gun buyers who aren't too experienced in firearms seem to buy new rather than a quality used outfit. Their loss is my gain, way I see it. I sure hate seeing them getting parted out. MB

Wood and blueing is an aesthetic affectation.

Building the Lilly, gold leaf on an anvil.

Guns are tool used for a purpose.
Wood and rust blue were the best available, at one time.

Today they are an added expense that lessens the product.

Fact.
Jack!


Ever see a wood furnished AR?
Talk about funky. That pretty seems to bring out the ugly.

Now here's the thing,
I prefer to look at and handle wood guns.

But the modern young guy isn't interested in paying more for less utility.

Holy crap, look how far we have fallen.

30 years ago I wouldn't touch an ugly, cheap Sportsman 78 or ADL.
Today, I see them and they look good.

Not as long as I'm alive. I own ONE tupperware rifle (in addition to a couple of ARs I bought just to piss off the likes of the Leroy Beans and other communists), a 340 Weatherby Weathermark. Othewise, you couldn't give me one.

Leave it to our resident gagger to post pics of those abortions.

https://www.ruger.com/products/Hawkeye/overview.html

https://www.winchesterguns.com/products/rifles/model-70/model-70-Current-Products.html

https://www.kimberamerica.com/rifles/rifle-family?layer&corporate_rifle_family=201

https://www.browning.com/products/firearms/rifles.html

They are. But there's a group of whippersnappers who pay a premium for other old-man stuff like vinyl records, Filson jackets, Martin guitars, Fjallraven backpacks, etc. I'm not sure that they'll inspire US riflemakers to resurrect anything, but as long as they're out there, we can dream.


Okie John

Have an affliction with wood and blued long guns myself, even worse I'm a left hand shooter. I have often considered trying to start a small rifle building business. In this fantasticall' business I would build Shmedium Mediums that weighed 8lbs scoped, had proper fitting stocks on well balanced, wood stocked hunting rifles. Chamberings would be almost boring and the rifle would have to balance and point like a fitted gun should. Lastly if ordered in a left hand configuration you would be forced to accept a $100.00 discount on all Left hand versions of said rifle.

End Rant

https://www.winchesterguns.com/products/rifles/model-70/model-70-Current-Products.html



Hey Edm , what do you think it would take to get winchester to make a limited run of M70 Supergrades blued with those fancy French walnut stocks with 26" barrels for 300H&H Magnum? MB

Only by stupid people with no foresight.

Absolutely.

I love classic rifles, have several really nice ones.

I do have some SS with synthetic, like them, too...

But, there's nothing like a well done classic with beautiful wood. A work of art.

As a certain famous English poet once said, "A thing of beauty is a joy forever".

And, so it is.

DF

The problem isn't that the "old" guns cost more (although they do), it's that the young shooters actually think they aren't as good. They actually prefer plastic and Cerakote.

How can this AHR CZ 9.3x62 not lite yo fire...

When it shoots like this..

DF

One can buy a minty Browning Safari Grade for 1200-1500 bucks. Accurate, well made beautiful rifles on either FN or Sako actions instead of one of those hideous plastic guns and they are as accurate as you can shoot...

Point well taken.

Those are solid, great guns and a bargain for what they bring.

DF

I know where there’s an older Sako .30/06 with lovely wood for $850. Have all the nine-pounders I need just now.

Yeah, weight can be an issue.

With the craze for light weight rifles, it's harder for those older walnut stocked ones to compete. And, generally fancier the wood, heavier the stock.

I personally don't want a rifle that's so light it's harder to shoot accurately. I like some forward heft on a light rifle, seems to make for a steadier hold.

DF

I believe some gun writer published an article on that subject recently--which is now a chapter in his latest book.... :-)

I just so happen to have a copy of that guy's book... .

DF

If I lived in country where I hunted out of a treestand I'd never bother with plastic rifles. I'd always rather have a nice bit of blued steel wrapped in walnut on my lap.

I have a brother in law who took it upon himself to award most of my father's guns to himself. He sold off a majority of them to take my sister to Jamaica. I silently purchased a bunch of them back. However, I feel that if he ever wants to come up and borrow a loaner that I would lend him this. It has a Stryka scope that has very little eye relief and is set very far back. It would likely give him a permanent beauty mark. But the bottom line is that it is a very nice FN Hipower in 30/06 that I purchased for $250.00. You have got to smile about that.

I'm sure as I get older and weaker a rifle's weight might be an issue. Then again, that'd why Gun bearers were invented . Seriously, I didn't have an issue going up and down some pretty steep hills in Africa with "heavy" rifles. I've only hunted out west twice (Wyoming where it was pretty flat but at altitude) and in Idaho where it was high and steep and didn't do too badly. Then again, some synthetic stocked rifles can be even heavier, but the point of lighter rifles is most definitively a valid one.

Saw a couple of nice Classic rifles today as matter of fact 1 a Kimber classic that must have been a nra banquet gun in 338 federal nice wood and 95+% condition at $729 the other a m721 Remington in 300 h&h for $550. The 300 came home with me. MB

I almost forget what a gun show feels like but recall seeing plenty wood stocks of a range of qualities..

And unless you think you are secret agent man, should you reach the point in your life where you can build your own gun room (if it were me) I would like lots of gorgeous wood on those walls...

Actually I'd love to sit in a treestand with my AR-15 across my lap

I prefer rifles made a while back

Yes theres a lot of older used classic arms out there and even some compatible for lefties like myself. Ive been foetunate to have some folks on this forum sell me a really nice Savage 99 308 win and an old antique Winchester 1895 30-40. Ive found an screaming deal on new old stock lefty Ruger 338RCM compact rifle (probably the best hunting rifle ever), Ruger scout 308, and a recent Ruger lefty 77 in 30-06 i found at a junk shop locally. Also ive got several ol Winchester 71 rifles i love and 1886 and those work well for lefties. So they are out there and you jump at the opportumiy, but in todays new production its difficult to find just a pedestrian 308, 30-06, or 270 in a proper rifle.

Currently im divesting myself of the excessive rifles that are right handed, the ones that get no use and moving towards the ones that i enjoy, the ones that het used and actually fit me. Less is more type of thing. But still being in my late 40's i can remember when Savage 99's were cheap and plentiful, old Mausers were widely available as were all manner of used leverguns and things werent so expensive. Some of this memory may also be due to there being better labor and craftsmanship from years ago and there was much more abundant natural resources all around. But still it shocks me that the younger people in their teens and up to their 20's dont have the opportunity to walk into somewhere brick and mortar and pick up a classic firearm or even old surplus junk thats now impossible to even get or its priced far over its value.

Just a side note. As a kid in the 70's we had a small town an hour away we used to shop at here in Idaho. There was an supermarket there and beside just groceries i remember they sold rifles there and even handguns and reload supplies. They also had rifle powder in kegs they sold by the pound in paper bags cheaply. Today we're far from that world but that wasnt all that long ago and its not asnif it was in Roman times.

An abortion that POS is! I like lever guns a lot; just not ANYTHING that looks like that. Fugk!

Did you pack out any of the game you killed in Wyoming and Idaho? Or were you on guided hunts where getting the game out was primarily the responsibility of the outfitter?

I started using lighter rifles around 40, not because I wasn't in shape (have worked out in various ways constantly long before then) but because a lighter rifle/pack/body not only allowed me to hunt longer and harder, but when I killed something on a hunt where I was responsible for getting it out, any reduction in the overall load helped. Just did it the other day, after killing a mule deer in steep breaks-type country. The pack wasn't all that far, but it was very much up-and-down.

JB , you put that 32-40 to work yet? What kinda action you got left? Mb

Might also point out that traditional walnut/blued rifles do not have to weigh more than synthetic-stocked rifles--and also can help on guided hunts This is my Merkel K1 .308, which weighs under 7 pounds with any scope weighing 16 ounces or less. It took this caribou after my guide and I followed a pair of bulls over two miles across a series of ridges in the Northwest Territories. We finally gave up trying to catch them--but then when we headed back to the boat toward evening, I turned around and found one of the bulls (for whatever reason caribou have for anything) had turned around and was headed right back toward us.

I killed it on the steep ridge above the boat, then because my partner (who was 20 years older than my 53) also killed a bull, I volunteered to pack the boned meat from my bull down to the boat, while he and the guide boned out the other bull--then hike back up to help pack it out. I could have done it with a 10-pound rifle, but why? The little Merkel worked fine, and made it all easier and quicker--partly because we were trying to beat sundown.

I don’t have any new firearms. All mine are old, wore out things.

At 14, I am now 69, my parents purchased a used Rem 760 30-06 that was my only hunting rifle until 1992 when my sons gave me a Win 70 Stainless Synthetic 270. I sold the Remington later to a friend who needed a cheap rifle for his son, gave it to him on time payments and he never completely paid for the rifle. Oh well.

Anyway thru the 1990's and until today I have been fortunate to have been able to purchase many new rifles and all have been Synthetic stocked with most being stainless. About 5 years ago I purchased my first wood and blue bolt rifle, a JC Higgins 50. Last year I purchased a JCH 51 both are 30-06. I love these guns and for the last few years they have been my primary hunting rifles. In bad weather I still use one of the Synthetic rifles but almost all other conditions I feel good using the wood and blue.

I see more wood stocked Mauser based rifles in my future.

Its true that wood stock rifles need not weigh a ton and some are amazingly svelte and light. Ive got two full stocked bolt actions, one a Steyr Mannlicher and the other is a full stocked Brno 22 small ring mauser. These handle like a wand but these dainty rifles arent all that common to begin with and it seems that its a European thing in that they got the weight and proportions correct in reguards to bolt rifles. To make one of those Brno 21 or 22 model rifles today would require immense amounts of money as no large factory has that level of wood workers and craftsmen on staff. Everyone today is an CNC programmer operator.

But yeah, theres some amazing wood guns from Europe

My last two rifle purchases were a Tikka T3X 6.5CM, a trade. It's OK, shoots OK, but not spectacular. Last one was a Steyr Classic Mannlicher FS in 6.5X55. Guess which one will stay until I can't hunt...

I sure hope none of you lie dying in your bed, wondering where the 'classics' went.

It's all stuff.

I was in a pawn shop yesterday and spotted a nice custom Mauser on the rack, I was hoping to see 7X57MM stamped on the barrel, but it was stamped 458WM. Awesome rifle thats probably going to be sitting for awhile.

Rhetorical question ? Still. I've "packed out" smallshit like deer in the PA mountains (yeah I know "hills" to you Monrana supermen) and hogs/deer out of the swamps and thickets here in the south and frankly, I don't think it would matter. Now if I was packing out for a long haul with everything on my back where every ounce counts, I can obviously see the advantages of lighter weight fire arms, but the Synstheric Weatherbys I've owned were no lighter than my wood stocked ones and my son's McMillan stocked 06 Vanguard I just don't see the issue with a few extra ounces.

Likely because you've never really had to pack stuff. I bet there are few times you weren't within shouting distance of something with wheels or someone to do it for you.

I shot 2 deer 5 seconds apart last monday morning with my lightweight hva 270 but I still walked out to get my game kart and got them out 1 at a time was that against the rules btailhunter? And if I may ask who gave you the right to make the rules? With a bum right knee right now I am glad I'm still able to go. What your rifle weighs is up to the individual carrying it. Magnum Bob

Jorge,

Quite often the pack-out with larger animals can take days and multiple trips, not just an hour or two. Have done such of pack-outs with big mule deer bucks (which can be the size of younger cow elk), caribou, elk and moose. Quite often it's a good idea to take the rifle along on all of the pack-outs due to the possibility of grizzlies.

Or like the guy who had a nightmare.

He dreamed he died and his wife was selling his guns for what he told her he paid for them....



DF

That's true, but I won't be on my death bed wishing I'd have used them more.

I took a nice custom rifle on a moose hunt this year. It was the 1st time I've hunted it since getting it back from the builder. The 1st day out, I got it soaked in the rain.

I think that as the population becomes more and more urban centered there will be fewer and fewer shooting sports enthusiasts, so tens of thousands of classic firearms will hit the market when current owners retire/downsize/pass and their children are more interested in cash than in old guns. Back in the late 1980's I bought a lot of rifles from a dealer in Plastow, NH, who bought most of his inventory from older people from northern MA who were downsizing before heading toward retiriement in one of our southern states.

I like to look at rifles with blued CM metal and walnut stocks, but mostly hunt with rifles that have laminated or synthetic stocks installed.

You must be either psychic, or a woman to guess what I've done or haven't. THat said, Can't argue with that. In PA the farthest I had to pack out a puny 150lb deer was about two miles. Here in Georgia maybe a thousand yards to a road, but the swamp can kick one's ass. Still, we are getting away from the topic at hand, aren't we?

Yessir. I understand.

.[/quote] Can't argue with that. In PA the farthest I had to pack out a puny 150lb deer was about two miles. Here in Georgia maybe a thousand yards to a road, but the swamp can kick one's ass. Still, we are getting away from the topic at hand, aren't we?
[/quote]

When did a Campfire thread 10 pages long ever stick exactly to the script? :-)

I would say that a question about whether classic rifles are doomed is indeed related to the advent of synthetic stocked rifles--and a major reason for their advent was lighter weight.

Can't argue with that. In PA the farthest I had to pack out a puny 150lb deer was about two miles. Here in Georgia maybe a thousand yards to a road, but the swamp can kick one's ass. Still, we are getting away from the topic at hand, aren't we?
[/quote]

When did a Campfire thread 10 pages long ever stick exactly to the script? :-)

I would say that a question about whether classic rifles are doomed is indeed related to the advent of synthetic stocked rifles--and a major reason for their advent was lighter weight.
[/quote]
I'd disagree slightly John. I'd say it was cost..I have a very small sample universe (Weatherbys) but all the synthetic ones I've owned (Accumark or Weathermark) have been just as if not heavier than my wood stocked MKVs

The number of shooters appears to be growing healthily with the population, but an increasing proportion are primarily or solely interested in guns for personal protection.

If I am lucky, many MANY thousands of old school classics will be thought of as useless, and offered to me at very low "junk price" so they can then go out an buy plastic/stainless guns that can "really kill game" ............leaving me to muddle through with the old junk.

You know..............like what I have always used for 1/2 a century...........Those that just don't work in the "modern game fields".


Shhhhhhhhhhhhh............don't tell those animals I have been killing with them, so they never know I can't kill them with wood and blued steel guns, over half of which have only iron sights.
Or they will come alive, get back up and and run off..............................

I've got a bunch of rifles, mainly rimfires, in the past few years, and looking them over, it's been about 8/3 in favor of decent wood and blued steel versus synthetic stocked rifles. Rarely has it been about price, though I got good value on the wood/blued guns, too. The stainless/synthetic guns were often a bit more, yet haven't provided any better performance than the blued "pretty" guns in any way.

I'm getting older and don't want to wait in the rain for a deer anyway, I don't take that kind of weather well nowadays. I might as well carry something I like, instead of just a tool.

I've been buying classic rifles for years and have only one synthetic stocked rifle in the vault (a SAKO L61R .270 that I put a McMillan stock on about 30 years ago because at the time it was my only big game rifle and I didn't like how beat up the walnut stock was becoming). My two primary big game rifles are a 1950s Savage 99 in .300 Savage and a Remington Model 725 (which I still think is the handsomest factory production rifle Remington ever made) in .280. I have one stainless steel rifle (a Ruger No. 1 in .223). All of my .22s and all of my shotguns are blued steel and walnut.

There's a utility to plastic and stainless, but I hunt for pleasure and to be outdoors and part of the pleasure is having something that gives me a warm feeling when I look at it. Stainless and plastic just don't do that for me.

Jorge,

While synthetic stocks have been around for close to century (Bakelite was an early material), the development of what are known as "lay-up" stocks, made of various synthetic fibers bonded with epoxy, took place in benchrest shooting in the 1960s. This was due to the desire for more stable AND lighter stocks, so more weight could go into barrels, scopes, etc., resulting in better accuracy

The lay-up developments eventually moved into hunting, due to the desires of many mountain hunters for lighter weight, plus stability and strength--and the ability to use "standard" length and weight barrels, instead of the short, skinny barrels often used on lightweight "classic" rifles. This resulted in lighter rifles that balanced better, and shot very accurately.

Which is why some major manufacturers started putting lay-ups on factory rifles, as I recall in the late 70s and early 80s. But they did not cost less than walnut-stocked rifles. Instead they cost more, because lay-ups require more time in manufacturing, and some of the materials, such as Kevlar, can be relatively costly as well.

The reason a lot of synthetic-stocked factory rifles cost less and often weigh close to the same as walnut-stocked rifles is faster, cheaper methods of making synthetic stocks, particularly injection-molding--which in a way is similar to the increasing use of hammer-forged barrels by American companies. The initial tooling for both injection-molded stocks and hammer-forged barrels is very expensive, but after that both stocks and barrels can be cranked out quicker and cheaper than more traditional methods.

One early maker of injection-molded stocks was Bill Heckerman of Belgrade, Montana, who developed Butler Creek stocks for various factory rifles in the 1980s. He told me back then that the initial molds cost around $250,000, but after that stocks could be cranked out for about $7 apiece. However, they did NOT weigh any less than the same basic shape of stock made out of plain-grade walnut, so weren't intended to reduce weight of the overall rifles. Same deal with Ramline stocks, another early IM stock. Instead both Butler Creek and Ramline stocks were intended as cheaper, more rugged alternatives to cheap walnut stocks--partly because the price of walnut was not going down.

Both hammer-forging and injection-molding are why companies like Ruger can now make extremely accurate rifles that sell for relatively little money. But they were never intended to be significantly lighter in weight, as lighter synthetic stocks still cost more.

This is one reason custom lightweight synthetic-stocked rifles tend to cost considerably more than the fewer "classic" factory rifles being made today. So a lot depends on what kind of rifle we're talking about, whether synthetic- or wood-stocked.

One more recent trend in "classic" hunting rifles is limited production models, because demand simply isn't enough to make them regular items--but some hunters will pay somewhat more for them, especially if they're chambered in "classic" cartridges. I'm kind of a sucker for these myself, but almost by definition they're not selling like everyday synthetic-stocked rifles.

I remember years ago when I saw my first synthetic rifle, It was a Steyr "Professional" or some such name. I said to myself, man, that will never sell. And boy was I wrong! I'm with you on the wood/blue stuff though

I always keep a couple of walnut/blued rifles that I enjoy looking at whole I'm hunting, but I also keep a couple that I can beat on and bring in and out of our humid climate down here in LA. I like being able to come in with an SS/Syn or laminate rifle and not worry so much about it sweating, or needing to go wipe off all the fingerprints on the blued steel. I'd expect a blued barreled action in a decent walnut stock to cost slightly more that a stainless barreled action in an injection molded handle, but not a lot more. If the wood is something special, then I'd expect it to be 30-50% more.

Jeff,

That's already happening, not just because of older hunters/shooters retiring or passing away, but due to other countries passing harsher gun-control laws. This isn't as universal as some Americans think, but it's happening enough that many classic guns are being exported to the U.S., which of course adds to the supply.

Out of curiosity, I just took stock of my own collection, and found that 67% are classics, ranging from the oldest (a first-year .50-70 Springfield conversion) to one of this year's additions, a Ruger No. 1B .270 Winchester that was incredibly custom-stocked in spectacular walnut--though there's no indication who.

The 33% that at synthetic-stocked range from a relative few that I use for some kinds of hunting, to "cheap" (but accurate) rifles purchased because of their chambering, so I could do handloading articles. Once I've done as many of those articles as my markets will allow, then they're sent on down the road. A good example was the most recent sell-off was a Ruger American Predator in 6mm Creedmoor. Probably 3/4 of my synthetic-stocked rifles are "temps."

John - Interesting as always. I'm a wood and blue guy but I have one MRC.257 Roberts for really crappy conditions. It weighs about the same as my others but fills a need.

I wonder like so many things it's simply a cycle? Like other recreational pursuits there always seems to be a "next big thing" but a lot of times that appears to be a "big thing" from some time ago. As an example, retro-restorations in classic cars. They seem to have skipped a generation of car enthusiasts but the younger crowd loves them now.

Will coming generations come to value rifles "like Dad used" No idea.

I kind of wonder about shooting competitions too. The rage today with 3 gun and such is great that it's getting people into the shooting sports but I suspect that it will eventually be replaced by something. I really enjoy small-bore silhouette and our local competitions seem to have some new blood showing up. Perhaps all things will be new again.

I can tell you this much personally; in my dotage, I find myself going more and more to "traditional" (oldshit) such as levers, iron sights, etc., so you definitively have a good point there Pugs.

Entirely fair. If I'm carrying a weapon while working (climbing waste dumps, shimmying into old workings, hand-mining ore samples, etc.) it tends to get banged up. I'll happily admit to carrying an old S&W revolver while mining - the old ways aren't dead yet.



Makes perfect sense to me.

The last 5 blued CM and walnut rifles that I purchased were all chambered for low sales volume classic cartridges; 22 Hornet, 250-3000, 257 Roberts, 6.5x53R, and 7x57. I have found that, on occasion, rifles chambered for low sales volume classic cartridges can be purchased for a significant discount because the ammo is hard to find. I bought the 6.5x53R because it was assembled by a big name London gun maker and it was too cheap at $475 not to buy. I never intend to shoot it, but how often do you run across a rifle made by W.J. Jeffery, much less one that left the building for $475? I know, it was a blind hog and truffles sort of find, but a find is a find is a find.

The last 5 utilitarian rifles that I purchased all have synthetic stocks and matte blued CM, Cerakoted CM, or stainless metal. 2 of the 5 were Savage Axis that Wal-Mart was selling for $125 per unit. I'm not a fan of the Savage Axis and think that they are to the rifle world what Harbor Freight tools are to the tool world, but they work and they are so inexpensive as to be virtually disposable.

The W.J. Jeffery Steyr Mannlicher is a European import, but thankfully doesn't have any import marks, so it must have been floating around in the U.S. for a few years. It came with 3 full boxes, 1 partial box, and 1 box of fired cases, all Norma factory ammo in the old woodgrain and red boxes. I bought it from the estate of a USAF Colonel who spent half of his 33 years stationed in Germany and the UK.

I very seldom sell firearms, so if they come, they are much more likely to stay than to leave. I did sell the Savage Axis rifles that I bought for $125ish to a friend who will likely give or sell them to someone in his large extended family.

No one has ever suggested that you are not a pussy.

I'll check back on your death bed.

That said, a factory wood stock is a bit different than a custom, but carry on

In short, you haven't the first clue how to cut one up and put into a backpack. I doubt you've done half that, alone.

Can you blame them?

Steelhead is in all his glory I see.

It's ALL doomed. Search "Seneca Cliff" (or just read the Hemingway quote below and you'll get the picture where we're at now.) Already well into a classic Romanesque collapse cycle, having hit our zenith around the time the quality of 99's started going downhill (not coincidentally), the economic fallout of our response to covid is fast-tracking the demise of our already badly floundering global civilization. It's not impossible we are at the verge of that Seneca Cliff right now. Will firearms still be manufactured at all in the new medieval era we face? I don't much care. I've got 2 really nice 99's i hunt with - a 1950 EG and a 1953 R - and a lovely though heavy classic .375 Holland & Holland (I live in a nest of grizzly bears) so i at least won't be going back to the slingshot, nor will i take up a plastic gun, which is right up there with wearing "crocs" to your wedding. Or wearing them at all, for that matter. Classic rifles are only doomed then if we fail to take care of the millions of them already out there. They'll outlast all of us on here right now. Bad taste in firearms notwithstanding.


“How did you go bankrupt?"
Two ways. Gradually, then suddenly.”

― Ernest Hemingway, The Sun Also Rises

"The number of shooters appears to be growing healthily with the population, but an increasing proportion are primarily or solely interested in guns for personal protection."

The other portion of "the shooting sports" that's growing quickly is target shooting, of all kinds.

High school trap shooting is alive and well.

kwg

I haven't had time to read all posts in this thread but As For Me.... NO



^^^^^^ My All Time FAV stock ! Bar NONE.




Kinda Like Classic Pumps too, and Classy !





Does M 98 in 284 W count ?


Jerry

I think expensive multi thousand dollar classics like some British made H&H or Rigby rifle will never go out of style. I would be proud to own one, but paranoid about taking it to a gun range where it could be stolen while I'm changing targets downrange.

I personally would rather hunt with a stainless light weight rifle with a TriggerTech trigger and cushy LimbSaver recoil pad.

That is far and away the trend. It's not wrong. It's evolution.

All this fuss about smokeless powder arms. Nothing classic about them.

The weight difference etc etc, Yes the Steyr Classic Mannlicher is about 1/2# heavier than the Tikka T3X 6.5CM. The real difference is in how they feel. The Tikka is OK, but I have to move around a bit to get the perfect sight picture. The Steyr is like a magic wand, perfect shotgun fit. Sight picture snapping to the shoulder is right now. I can put up with the weight difference.

Just a suggestion for those use old classic rifles. For keeping that wood stable and keeping it from getting ruined an pine tar treatment is excellent although unconventional. Strip the finish off and from there apply a mixture of pine tar , mineral spirits, and boiled linseed oil conncoction either on a really hot day or with heat gun. A couple of coats and the wood sheds weather like a duck. I treat my stocks on my Ruger rifles with this method and it darkens the stocks but its a better treatment for tough weather than traditional stock and furniture finishes, the heat sinks the pine tar intonthe wood and its impregnated. Good stuff. The vikings treated their boatsnwitb it and it preserves wood like notjing else.

Yeah, definitively estrogen, laced with cowardice. How many logins is that now Scott, three or four? Your posts, like you, are nothing but a pile of steamingdogshit. F uck off, Steelhead..

All right. .303 Boy, that’s just about enough.

I thought Canadians were supposed to be polite!😱

WARNING! Keep away from open flame!

Careful, threads about stock finishes get nasty in a hurry.

Yep. I'ma headed out right now to get a jar of pine tar.

(That's as far as I shall rise to that bait!)

I liken stainless/plastic rifles to Kindles. Oh so practical products of our age, but I can't conceive of curling up by the fire with a glass of whiskey and a Kindle any more than sitting under an oak tree as the sun goes down while contemplating the grace and beauty of a plastic rifle.

Give me a stock that came from a tree that stood rooted when history was being made, rather than a stock that started life in a vat of toxic soup.

I'm civil. I have had quite a few belly laughs throughout this thread.

I say this from time to time. We are products of our generations. And there have been a fair number of grumpy old men reply.

What would the subject of gun clubs/hunting conversations been in the 1920s or 1930s?

Smokeless powder won't last. It's a flash in the pan. Pun intended. Some fool is using birch for gun stocks! And hey, don't the manufacturers realize that firearms furniture must be made of brass? Steel rusts! What idiots!

What fool would mount a telescope on their rifle? Barrels must be a minimum of 30 inches in length! Some addle brained moron - probably a city boy - is reducing them to 24 or 26 inches! You might as well throw a rock!

The oldest members would pick up the sword. My father said that no good came of switching to percussion caps. As if flints were something to avoid! It's dubious that surrounding powder in a brass cup - as with cartridge rifles - is really necessary for hunting. Cartridge rifles are a rapid fire military weapon. They are totally unnecessary for deer!

They actually made the 30-30 to function using smokeless powder. What folly!

My uncle bought one of the first levers. A reckless idea. No need for that kind of firepower! You'll waste ammunition. Winchester missed the mark there!

Really, no positive things have come from the gun world in years. You won't catch me using expensive, less accurate jacketed bullets!

History repeats.

Many of you are grumpy old men! It's perspective. The classic rifles are rare and expensive. Few have been made in close to 100 years. Au bon marche!

Really, no positive things have come from the gun world in years. You won't catch me using expensive, less accurate jacketed bullets!

Or making them either, right?😜

Just lead. Lead is all you need. It's classic.

Theres no need to make fun of classic items or even lead. Who knows? We may all have to be mandated to use non lead projectiles in the not too distant future, maybe? Anyone look at the price of copper? It wont be going down.

Also there nothing wrong with change and progression but in truth most of our arms makers arent very accomidating. It used to be way before my time a fella could order a winchester rifle like an 1886 or Hi Wall the way you wanted it configured or at least there were many options. Today whole lines disappear and cheaper made junk is put in its place.

It would be nice if companies would provide limited runs and announce it on their website. Runs for certain models, calibers, and features. They could do a pre purchase program for those interested and when the interest or funds became too littlenthen they could stip the run. Theres ways to do this in our internet age but theres really no focus on customer anymore and only market trend.

I suspose the limited runs Ruger does from outfits like Lipseys is aboit as close as we'll ever come to this.

What is this Steelhead business? Isnt he a decent guy?

That's true, but most of the people here only think that 20th century rifles can be classics. Wood is rarely used as a stock material with production rifles these days. Nicely blued steel is gone. It's progress. Noone said people would like it.



It's the bottom line. I have said many times that wood is more labour intensive and expensive to fashion into rifle stocks. That's why we see injection molded stocks on virtually every rifle these days. You have to pay a premium for limited production or custom shop rifles. I understand what you are saying, but profits have to be made. If you must have walnut, you will have to pay more for the privilege.



Companies do make special runs from time to time. Generally, they are more expensive than their regular line.

Lipseys firearms are often good buys. For example, they offered the 44 Special Ruger Blackhawk a few years back when 44 Specials of any kind were hard to find new.

Like many of us, you were used to going into a gun shop and seeing Model 70s, Rem 700s and others that had wood (often walnut) as standard. Those days are gone. There was a major transition to cheaper wood stocks, and then plastics, about 40 years ago. Companies like Remington made econo-rifles. They featured cheaper wood, metal stampings (like trigger guards), no iron sights, plastic butt pads, etc.

These things did not happen in one season. It was a gradual evolution. Cost cutting was the thing and it is always ongoing.

It's not wrong. It's just something that our generation did not grow up with. Your father, grandfather and great-grandfather all said the same thing. "What the heck are they doing?"

I love those kinda guns as well as the next guy, but like you, am hesitant to hunt them or take them where I'd take a synthetic, SS version.

I've traded or sold guns that I considered too fancy or too nice to hunt. Still have a few, but don't subject them to abuse.

Sometimes it's just nice to have one that shoots good, but not a problem dragging it thru a thicket.

Synthetic, SS rifles don't have to be ugly, they just not as pretty as classic, high end walnut and blued steel classics.

DF

So true, DF. We see attractive synth-oh stocks all around us. I think you are like me. We appreciate a beautiful, well made wooden stocks, but we're usually hesitant to take a fancy one afield.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and some can see the beauty in a well made synthetic stock. Unfortunately, cheap and easily (quickly) made stocks are de rigueur now. One must create a healthy bottom line. Beauty is for art galleries.

I should also add that I like laminates. They aren't walnut, but they are hardy and pleasing to my eyes.

As an example of what I just posted, this Champlin and Haskins Len Brownell 7RM was obtained used. It had been hunted, but not abused. I've posted it before.

I enjoy it, the wear and tear just adds character. One like this I don't mind using, just don't abuse it. It shoots greats, prefers lighter bullets and is easy on the eye. Pictures show some dings and wear, still in pretty good shape.

It's easier to use one like this. It's like a new pickup. It's that first ding or scratch that hurts the most. I drive my 2011 Z-71, don't worry about a scratch, ding to two. Same deal here. Plus I don't like all the electronic gadgets on the new trucks, gonna drive this one another 100K miles, it has just 111K now.

DF

I understand that some fellas don’t like to take classy walnut/blued steel guns into the field because they’re too pretty to hunt with. To me, that mindset is the same as thinking a classy gal is too pretty to take to bed.😁

Today’s new age is tomorrow’s classic.

What you say makes sense, Steve. But I don't have to like it!

I have a pile of rifles, many of which are "too nice to hunt with" but there are more setting beside them which aren't- more than I need for the amount of hunting I do anymore. I take pride in ownership and that's enough of an excuse to keep buying them. They all get a turn at the range now and then but mostly they sit and look pretty.

Well...if that's the 'standard mark'... then yes the classics are DOOMED !


Now wait a minute ! I 'LIKE" Savage 99s so don't read more into that than there is.
ATST a/the Savage 99 is not the only Classic rifle out there.

MD said above this post: P 4

"Some shooters complained about this back then, which sounds very much like the complaints here. Yet the 721/722 rifles succeeded, to the point where they morphed into the highest-selling bolt-action centerfire rifle of the last half of the 20th century, the Remington 700."

Viking, I'm NOT directing this at you.

Some or many feel that THEIR pet or fav or 'classic' is the BEST or even the only one.
I posted on P 12 my fav stock of all time is the Win 70 XTR Featherweight. My personal fav. However, I have seen and do see some 'GORGEOUS' stocked rifles beside those XTRs.

The theme of this thread 'seems' to be "classic wood/blue" rifles. I really like Composite (not plastic) stocks & SS metal.
They can't be beat (beaten) for ruggedness and dependability BUT they AIN'T pretty or gorgeous. I have more classic
wood/blue than Composite/SS so that's where I am.

Others have pointed out that the new generation is more interested in tacticool looks. Hopefully they'll mature and grow out of it.

Jerry

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder as well as pretty is as pretty does , which pertains to womens and rifles as they both can be fickle. But enjoy the beauty of the wood in your rifle and the times your wood is in your womens. Hmmm pretty damned profound if'n I do say so.myself. mb

And I agree with you. There's no need to stop buying them. You appreciate their beauty and have that sense of pride. I have a few rifles here that I only take to the range as well, but like you said, they mostly sit and look pretty. This is the fanciest stock I take hunting.

Outstanding video, Steve. Thanks.

It's very moving.

Great video, thanks for sharing

Great video

Great video very moving indeed but ya gotta note given the thread title that the old gentleman was carrying a synthetic-stocked turkey gun.

Be that as it may wood and bluing is as prevalent in my gun cabinet as ever...

Ive nabbed a few classics from this forum. A Savage 99 308 win and an old antique Winchester 1895 30-40. Ive got various old leverguns like Marlins and 1886's and Winchester 71's but im on the hunt for a good left hand 270. Its hard to find but im looking.

Some of the wood and stainless rifles like the new Ruger Hawkeyes are really nice looking but ive yet to find any. Ill keep looking.

I did end up with a really nice historical classic this summer. A local find of an Springfield 1873 trapdoor and Marlin 1881 both 45-70. Pretty old classics and in the true antique catagory.

What about this classic?

[quote=jwall]I haven't had time to read all posts in this thread but As For Me.... NO



^^^^^^ My All Time FAV stock ! Bar NONE. Factory Stock !

- x - x - x - x - x


BTW, it hunts too.

This is the First deer I killed with it:




It does not discriminate :




We hunted together today but saw nothing worth shooting.

Jerry

HEY ! That's my rifle in case you forgot !
I didn't!!


Sooo Nice

Jerry

Thought you might remember....

Hey Bud

I 'edited' the above post to: Fav FACTORY stock.

Yours is one of the "gorgeous" stocks I see > that I mentioned.

Jerry

I'm only on page 5 of this thread but these words from ratsmacker say it mighty well, IMO.

Cheers,
Rex

I took my Mauser 25-06, which I built myself back in 1991, and with which I killed my first antelope that year, on my AZ antelope hunt this fall. Here it sits on a nice Arizona benchrest about halfway through the 10 day hunt.

It was a long, and sometimes very hot, hunt, and the rut kicked in late. Finally got my goat on the morning of the tenth and last day of the season. Stayed the whole time in my wall tent in sweet country, saw tons of elk (and almost no goats!!), and never had to look down at an ugly rifle in my hands.

Don't hate on the bipod now, fellas...;o)
Rex

Well done.... and with a very nice rifle.

Jorge suggested I post this link over here.

Just for you guys who think classic wood stocks are doomed...

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/15442133/re-ugly-2-0#Post15442133

DF

[quote=TRexF16]

Don't hate on the bipod now, fellas...;o)
Rex

-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x

VERY Nice, plus GOOD looking rifle!!

Congrats

There's nothing wrong with the bipod when you need & can use them.


Jerry

Testify, DF!

You can eat, or starve to death starin' at wallynut!

My walnut 760 is drenched, just got home.
Passed on a busted 6 pt.
Gonna dry er out and oil it up and get ready for a turkey day hunt.

You bet DF, agreed to all that, just came down from the mountain hunting here at the house, I took one of my favorite rifles in the world, they're scorned and hated my many, a 1969 year model all Belgian Browning Grade II in 338 Win Mag, the pretty blonde stocks, sharp checkering and deep rich blue 'is' a thing of beauty to me, I grew up toting A-5 Browning shotguns as soon as I was big enough to safely carry one, I love the damn things.

As with the A-5's, you can hear and feel the BAR's working on firing, I respect the craftsmanship and engineering that went into those builds, others can flame all they want, it wont change a thing.

Had my daughter out wit the wood stock weatherby. Last night of season and she passed on a decent 4x4. She wants him to grow up. Perfect. Edk

Classics are thriving in this household. Have the array, however, the favorites are almost all classics.
GreggH

gunner, I've had a few BAR's, think they're the cream of the crop for autoloading hunting rifles. You're right about quality build and finish.

The fanciest one was picked up used, metal was perfect, wood was not in the best shape. It obviously had some use. I refinished the stock using a tung oil/urethane finish, sent wood to Errol Case in MO for restoration of the carving and checkering. He did a great job. When we got finished it looked factory new. That doubled the value of the gun and I traded it for an Ed Brown Damara 300 WM, a gun that I still have.

Some are just too pretty to hunt. Someone else needs those more than I do. At least I made money on this one, traded into a keeper.

DF

Pin Fire.

It's Doomed.

Hi John,

Apparently you're one of the very few who "got" my post!

Y'all were just ahead of me.
I was already considering qualifying Antiques/Antiquated as different from Classic.

Jerry

Solid wood has become a luxury option for a practical reason. It takes careful individual attention to fit it properly. This isn't new. In times past, solid wood would be used for gunstocks because it was more or less the only practical technology. More costly rifles and shotguns had stocks carefully fitted by hand, but even a lot of production rifles with hand-fitted stocks (i.e. pre-64 Model 70) suffered a little inaccuracy just because the barrel channel or the recoil lug fit wasn't always consistent. At some point, aftermarket hand-fitting and glass-bedding became a popular upgrade. When did the Acraglas kits come out? Was that in the 70's? Even up into the 90's, manufacturers were offering their least expensive rifles and shotguns with solid birch stocks and they weren't fit perfectly. "Plasticizing" the stock's barrel channel and recoil lug area continued to be popular because it would often enough turn a budget rifle into one that would shoot as well as rifles that cost two or three times as much. The trend the OP has noticed began a long time ago but the result is that we can now buy an inexpensive Savage, Ruger, Tikka etc. with sub-MOA accuracy in part because the low-cost synthetic stock fits perfectly almost every time and unlike solid wood, it doesn't change over time. There's also no need for hours of labor to glass or epoxy bed it to get an accurate rifle. Classic, solid wood is not "dead," but due in part to increasingly short supplies of good wood, rising costs, and the additional labor needed to make it fit well, solid wood will continue to migrate toward the niche of a luxury option -- and it is not the only luxury option because many people will rather spend more on lowering weight with advanced composites, on more sophisticated adjustability, or without compromising extreme accuracy -- for all of which options other than wood are better.

FWIW, all my long guns have beautiful walnut, but if I was buying for some practical reason, I wouldn't dismiss composite stocks at all. Composite stocks are very practical. Wood is not even necessarily impractical but even so, practical is not a requirement for an awful lot of firearms.

I know that feeling. If you refuse to hunt in the rain or snow in PA you don't get out much.

Damn, that's a beaut DF, the Ed Brown must be real special to work a trade, what was the old BAR chambered in? is that the Grade V?

Thanks for posting those pics.

Clearly they are doomed! You better unload yours before it is too late.
Let me know how I can help.

yessir, beaut for sure!

I remember a discussion by a couple of engineers from a major rifle and shotgun manufacture In the ‘60’s. The management was concerned that the wood supply for their rifles and shotguns would not keep up with the sales of their guns. The engineering department was encouraged to come up with an alternative.
One of the first alternatives they came up with was a light weight 22 with a nylon stock. The rifle is popular, but that stock was not stable as moisture expanded the material one of the engineers laid one of these 22’s on wet grass during a lunch break. After lunch the 22 shot quite a ways off to the side.

Yeah, Gr. V... '06, gunner, IIRC. I never shot it.

The .300 Win Mag Damara is a great gun. Ed uses his proprietary metal finish which is about bullet proof. It has a match grade SS Shilen, Jewell trigger. stock of Ed's design and with his finish. It's made by McM for Ed and looks to me like a carbon copy of the Hunter's Edge, which is OK; it's one of my fav's.

I usually tweak a new gun, few have nothing that can't be improved. Except this one. It has the 3.6" mag box (instead of the std. 3.4") and is throated accordingly for bullets seated out to fit the box. With that, the jump is about perfect. That gives the .300 WM more case room. Ed's attention to detail is legendary.

Plus, it has Ed's 704 action, round bolt like a 700, CRF like a M-70. LAW bought Ed's tooling and design, tried to produce that rifle at half his price point. I think they finally got it right, but had problems along the way. I'd not trade this one for a LAW. Even at his price point, Ed shut down that line to spend more time on his fine line of 1911's. So, from a business standpoint, one would suspect the rifle wasn't as profitable as his 1911's.

Easy packing, easy shooting rifle. Not pretty walnut, but the real deal. It's a keeper. Did I forget to say it's accurate; shoots about like you would think. The trade was a no brainer, pretty gave way to function. I like pretty, I like function better. Sometimes you can have both.... The Damara is sorta pretty, at least to me...

I know what it can do...

DF

I spent a small fortune building a battery of 09 Argentine classics in 6mm Rem, 6.5x55, 7x57 and 9.3x62. Ive shot a heap of deer with them and love them but I dont use them.

Turns out my assiduous learning and adoption of straight comb stocks, CRF, low mag scopes and high SD RN bullets was ill advised - for my hunting. I've learned by experience that vertical grips, adj or high combs, utterly repeatable light triggers, the best optics, normal weight faster bullets and supressors make a pressured shot much easier.

One of these days I'd like to build an exhibition grade walnut stocked, rust blued classic with the above characteristics

Uh Huh, I hear ya man. Now be careful there you'll likely be stoned or badly bruised. You're cracking the mold. So am I.

Jerry

[quote=Dirtfarmer]

Some are just too pretty to hunt. Someone else needs those more than I do. At least I made money on this one, traded into a keeper.

DF











x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x

Gorgeous is almost accurate. I'd be afraid of damaging it too.

Good On Ya

Jerry

Turnbull builds a case colored, fancy walnut AR. https://www.turnbullrestoration.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/tar-10.jpg

DF

You bet Jorge, DF, no doubt that Brown is a tack driver and will give you an extra 2 to 300 yards of effective hunting range over the old BAR.

I read the first couple of pages and then skipped to the back, so I may be repeating what others have said.

In my opinion, yes.

New shooters are probably finding more plastic stocked, stainless steel firearms than wood and blue these days. Our military is turning out men and women that are used to M4's and other auto loading variant's and this will commonly carry over to their civilian shooting interests.....just like our fore fathers from WW 1&2 came back home and found that they preferred bolt action rifles to the common levers. Those of the Vietnam era and onto todays vets, got a taste for the semi autos and the "modern sporting rifle" age is born....

I love the looks and feel of Savage 99, Pre 64 Winchester 70 or 94, the early Remington's and more. But I also find the synthetic/stainless give peace of mind when its rattling around in the truck or on a quad or shooting off a rock strewn rest. That's just the way it is.

Walnut and blued steel are going to become the exception rather than the rule. Guns are changing, and changing fast as technology is allowing a LOT of makers to do a lot of weird and interesting things on the cheap. Sometimes those weird things work out, and guns change.

But there will always be the gun nuts like us. The enthusiast is going to be interested in guns that look a little different. They'll seek out the roots of their shooting sticks and in the process learn about the great guns of the past.

And it's becoming easier to indulge one's love of older or historic style guns. Whether it be all the 19th century rifles and revolvers made by Uberti (It's a LONG list of guns). Or consider that a number of makers in England, Spain, and Italy are making copies of the greatest English game guns of the 19th century.

As for bolt action sporting rifles...Well, Winchester is still making a classic style model 70. And all the greats of the past are still out there, in large numbers, and not necessarily expensive.

I don't think classic rifles are going away; I just think they will be the enthusiasts rifle rather than the rifle everyone else is using.

16 New Rifles from SHOT Show 2019 - A rundown of the best rifles debuting from some of the sport’s leading manufacturers

Jiminy Jillikers! No wood in the lot! Mind you, the Weatherby is a bargain at $2300.



https://www.outdoorlife.com/16-new-rifles-from-shot-show-2019/

[quote=jwall][quote=jwall]I haven't had time to read all posts in this thread but As For Me.... NO



^^^^^^ My All Time FAV stock ! Bar NONE. Factory Stock !

- x - x - x - x - x

BTW, it hunts too.

x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x

YES, it still hunts today.




Win 70 XTR FTWT 6.5X55, 120 NBT, 4350 powder 3000 fps.
It was SO foggy this AM I couldn't see 100 yds until 9:00 AM
@ 9:30 He came out of the brush as the fog was lifting. No sun shining at this point.

He was angled away more than I thot. Bullet entered behind left shoulder and exited in front of the right shoulder.
( Note: those are FRONT shoulders not rear shoulders LOL )


A little later the sun is shining.



Classic Wood / Blue Ain't Dead.

Jerry

You can say that all you want, but it's not going to change a thing. And holding your breath won't change a thing either.

Now that is just mean, Steve, just mean. 😂

Yeah.