Thought some members might (or might not) enjoy this thread--which appeared four years after the cartridge appeared in 2007. Please note that the thread eventually lost steam--and then was revived in 2017: It went almost 200 posts, so I edited it down to the most pertinent:

WILL THE 6.5 CREEDMOOR SURVIVE?
Just as the title says, do you think this cartridge is going to survive. I'm looking into a new rifle in some type of 6.5 and wondering if you think it'll be around or going by the way of most of the WSSM's
Thanks,
Mike [Grunt_0351, last logged on 12/07/15)

I'm for betting that it won't last long commercially. But could be wrong and then some, have been b4.
Dober

I agree it's in the mix and ballistically similar to the 260 and Swede so it may survive in the Loonie crowd or competition shooters but as for hunting no way.
Flyboy Flem

Define "survive".
Unlike the WSMs, brass for the Creedmoor is easily formed from existing cartridges.
BarryC

If you buy a 6.5 Sweed you will have no need to ask the question.
Jim

I think it will. The fact that Ruger's Hawkeyes in it are selling pretty well and the fact that those cheap factory rifles are surprisingly accurate is going to be a factor.
Eremicus

I'll bet it's going to rival the Ruger 300 RSM in popularity-
Royce

Purely looking at the Creed as to it's design and performance, it has few flies...but if it had the 308 based case to source brass, and the same options ie. Lapua brass and ammo options by other mfg. as the 260 does, then it would make those concerned w/the future viability of the round's supply of ammo/brass become moot and the OP would not be asking the question IMO.
65BR

While brass can't be sourced from .308 it CAN be sourced from the 22-250 and that's not going away. Plus - if a guy just can't live without superior brass - Lapua does make 22-250 brass...
Teal

There's another article on the 6.5 Creedmoor in the November issue of Guns & Ammo. In a photo line-up of the 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.5 Grendel, .260 Rem, 6.5 Rem Mag, and .264 Win Mag it's easy to see what the author of that article is explaining when he says the Creedmoor case was designed from the ground up as a short-action cartridge with a modern shoulder angle as compared to the .260 Rem. Whether the cartridge survives, as in readily available factory loaded ammo, no one can know. As with everything new, the market will decide its long term fate. That said, change and innovation has been the hallmark of the firearms industry for centuries and I applaud companies like Hornady and Ruger for keeping that tradition alive and well.
MacLorry

We could just as well have dismissed the .260 when it appeared because all it did was match what several of the original, redundant military 6.5mm rounds would so. But the .260 was also designed as a niche cartridge, one that fit in a short magazine--and also had consistent chamber and brass dimensions, unlike all those old military 6.5's, including the 6.5x55. Just try using ALL the different brands of 6.5x55 brass in a wide variety of rifles, and you'll understand part of the reason for .260.
Mule Deer

The 260 filled a legitimate need [6.5x55 ballistics in a short action]. The Creedmore, 30T/C, RCM, WSSM, WSM, and other similar cartridges were designed/produced to fill someone's bank account, not to put a better product in the shooters hands.
Dmsbandit

(I believe this ^^^ was the first post I saw that misspelled “Creedmoor,” but far from the last--MD)

My point is that nobody goes to Walmart and buys 6BR ammo or 6BR rifles. In fact, I doubt that 90% of guys pulling triggers have ever even heard of it. Does that matter? No, that isn't the point of the cartridge.
Barry C

(Of course, Walmarts did start carrying 6.5 Creedmoor ammo—as did numerous other gun stores around the world--MD)

I wish somebody would commercialize my favorite 6.5...the 6.5-06. I would definitely buy one of those. I had one a number of years ago but it went to pay for bills during tough times. Oh, wait, ain't that the .256 Newton???
Pastor Dan

Didn't read the entire thread, but, the way the writers in the gun mags are singing it's praises, you'd think its the end all of cartridges.
TBREW401

Oh ,horseschit. Gunwriters are merely explaining it's virtues. It's called writing. It's funny that annoys you since nobody is putting a gun to your head to read them. I have never seen a writer yet that claimed the 6.5 Creedmoor should replace anything. Your gun writer "hate" is showing. Grow up.
Jim62

Will the 6.5 Creedmoor survive? Just look at how long this thread has survived.
Rug3

THIS THREAD APPEARED IN OCTOBER 2011—and was revived again in November 2017:

In 2011, the OP's question seems valid. In 2017 not so much. The consumers have spoken and it appears they DID want a 6.5 Swede that fit into true short action with twist rates suitable for 140g slugs…. The fact that superbly accurate factory ammo that is reasonably priced and readily available has not hurt the 6.5 Creedmoor , either.
Jk 16

A local podunk hardware store I went by had Creed hunting ammo sitting on their shelf in stock.
DakotaDeer

Biggest problem I see with 6.5 CM is that everyone seems to be loading it with H4350 and now I can't find any to load my 30-06 with.
Cantershot

It was designed over ten years ago and just now has shown significant popularity in the marketplace. And look who has been the main promoter - Hornady - and what is their main business? Component sales! In the last few decades, they have become serious purveyors of quality ammo, but components - mostly bullets - were what brought them to this party. It just so happens that the 6.5 Creedmoor also kills critters very efficiently. And the same attributes that make it easy to shoot one-hole groups just happen to be transferable to the hunt.
Bearbacker

It appears the word "fad" must have a new meaning to some at least, like the meaning of the word "gay" changed over the years. To me a round that has been around 10 years or so and getting more popular every year and with sales of the factory ammo, components and the rifles being at such an insane level might lead one to conclude it must not be a fad. I would love to have a profitable "fad" like that !
Nomosendero2

Marketing is great for the initial rollout. Marketing has nothing to do with its continued popularity. If it was marginal or underperformed with the serious shooting public, it would have been panned and lost popularity to another 6.5 the way the .264 did to the 7RM. New cartridges aren’t propped up, especially when the internet is looking for a reason to diminish them.
dtspoke

the vote is in. Just got back from Sportsmans Warehouse. They had boxes of Remington 140 gr pspcl 260 Rem for $35.99. They had boxes of Remington 140 gr pspcl 6.5 CM for $22.99. There were at least 10 other brands weights types of 6.5 CM. Only other 260 Rem I saw was Remington with 120g Barnes. Even Remington is killing the 260.
Sycamore

I just wanted to chime in here to say how worried I am that the 6.5 CM won't survive. I mean, if it actually had anything going for it like good ballistics, mild recoil, or accuracy, that would be one thing, but as it stands now, it's obviously just a passing fad. I can't sleep a wink!
Yondering

I love Waffle House. Creedmore?
Alwaysoutdoors

Gunwriters have been claiming for decades that America won’t take to 6.5’s. I’m betting this one breaks the mold. It’s been real hard for hunters to admit that recoil is not fun. The LR/tacticool community’s adoption of the round gives guys an excuse to quit the 300 mags.
And quite frankly, it has the SD to reliably take game larger than deer, something that cannot he said of 6mm and 25 cal rounds. In other words, guys shoot it well and it kills well. My guess is it stays with force.
Bellydeep

Never underestimate the way that people will fall for a cool name. (Not to mention their indignant denial that they do so.
5sdad


What's even cooler is watching my 6.5 Tikka T3X, which cost me $560 at Whittaker's, print .25-.55 groups all day long with factory ammo, with mild recoil.
JGRaider

You are just picking on them now John.

It does shoot well though.

Woah. I made the list!

I don't remember typing that tho lol.

Creed did grab my attention back then. IIRC, MD had a Ruger and for some reason I want to say early Ruger Creeds had longer barrels than they do now.

There's been more than a few cartridges that have been kicked to the curb in the recent past. The 6.5 Creed will be around for a long time.

It’s simple, it’s fun to shoot.

Teal,

Yep, that particular Ruger was a Hawkeye blued/walnut model with a 26" barrel. It was actually the very first 6.5 Creedmoor rifle I'd ever seen, and was on the rack at Capital Sports & Western Wear. The head of the gun department (who I trust) told me they shot like crazy, and they'd just had to order more.(By the way, I copied and pasted your post.)

From the store, I phoned the editor of my primary gun magazine and asked if he'd be interested in an article, saying I had a pretty good deal going. They hadn't published anything on the 6.5 Creedmoor yet, and he said yeah, so I bought the rifle and 3-4 boxes of factory ammo. Kinda wish I'd kept it, because it shot so well--but had to try other 6.5 Creedmoors to make sure the accuracy wasn't an aberration. Am not on my 5th, a Bergara B-14 Ridge, which four days ago averaged .35 for 3-shot groups at 100 yards with the first load tried with 135-grain Hornady A-Maxes and Vihtavuori's new N555 powder. A little tweaking and it might shoot....

Wonder how it stacks up for non-military calibers of the last 100 years in terms of popularity?

Better than the .250 Savage I’m thinking.

John,

I didn't mean to imply you did anything other than copy/paste, just that I didn't remember!

Always paid attention to your writing as you've always been more complimentary to Rugers than most back in the day. Combine that with the Creedmoor being the first SA cartridge that interested me, why I remember you mentioning the long tube on that rifle but not the post. Hell my cat's name is Creed and I don't even own one.

Yup, I'm sure of it, I want one. Just don't know which one yet. The 6.5 CM just has too many good attributes to pass it up.

Teal,

I understand completely! Hell, I often have somebody quote something from a long-ago article I supposedly wrote--and I didn't write!

Since it came out on 2007 (per Wiki), we've seen a slew of new cartridges it seems.

Maybe as far back as the WSM till now, has the industry ever seen so many new cartridges introduced/adopted SAAMI?

Lament wildcats not being popular because so many new cartridges are avail, factory, to scratch almost every itch.

Might also mention (as I have several times in the past) that I do NOT think the 6.5 Creedmoor is the ultimate round for small to medium big game--which I would class as up to elk size. But have used it enough (and seen it used by hunting partners) on game up to 6x6 bull elk at various ranges that will say that I can't see any damned difference between it and the .270 Winchester. Or for that matter most other rounds in the same class.

But have also mentioned here and there that the longer I hunt big game the less difference is apparent in how differcent cartridges/bullets in the same broad class kill 'em.

Four years is a long time...

This particular snapshot into the recent past here on the fire is one of the more interesting, given the plethora of varying yet strong opinions on the Creedmoor.

A few seem to have found their way into the stables here, and after making some friends, I don't see any reason why they won't be staying. My daughter loves hers, as does my wife.

John,
What would you consider the optimum class of cartridges for critters up to and including elk?

Uh oh,

maybe we need a separate thread for that?

I promise any answer John comes up with I will leave it alone!........lol.

The 6.5CM is a good one, I finally succommed and got one on trade. As a hand loader, much of the advantage is lost for me. I have owned and still have several 6.5's. The 6.5CM really does nothing better than my 6.5X57 or 6.5X55 will do. The new powders and bullets apply to the older ones as well. I find no real advantage in velocity or accuracy between them. For factory ammo, then yes the 6.5CM wins this race. The T3X 6.5CM will be for sale soon.

You're not the only one on here though

True..........

.260 forever,
Creedmoor never.

Same to you.

I've had 5 of them, four Model 700's, and a Howa. EVERY one of them, right out of the box, loaded with any 6.5 bullet and powder combination, has shot well enough for me to me to be happy with the results. I cannot say that about any other cartridge I've used. Maybe my expectations aren't as high as somebodies else's is, but for what I do, the 6.5 Creedmoor works.

Good grief! You mean I have been in the Dark Ages without a 6.5 Creedmoor for the past 13 years? What ever will I do....

Probably a good cartridge, but I don't need another boring cartridge/gun combo in the inventory.

$560 Tikkas.....*sniff*😢

6.5 CM is like a junk drawer...There’s bound to be one in every house.

😬😎

Nice summary, John. Thanks for putting that together.

Good bud picked up an NRA Mauser-18 in 6.5 CM at a good price from an acquaintance. I tweaked the trigger with a metric Allen wrench. I had some factory ammo, used the Winchester 140 target stuff to sight it in. I noticed that ammo seemed a bit hot, some resistance with bolt opening, etc. So, I pulled those 140's, seated 130 gr. NAB's and that's what he's used to kill three deer and a coon. He's a good shot, that bullet blew up the hearts on all three deer, blasted the coon pretty badly. And, Creed like, all three loads (4 including the 130 NAB's) shot into the same POI and grouped pretty tight.

Needless to say, he loves the gun and the round. I also gave him some 140 gr. and 147 gr. ELD-M factory ammo, but he's so into the 130 gr. NAB's, hasn't shot the ELD-M's.

Now, after all that, he asked me yesterday if that gun came in a .270. I said it did. Now, why would a man who has had a very successful season with the Creed, be thinking about a .270....??



DF

........ except fit into a short action and then with lots of room to seat out bullets. Finding brass and ammo is a factor as well.

Your question is funny DF. I have a buddy that is just the opposite. He's been shooting the 270 all of his life. Says its the greatest cartridge of all time. Last year I let him shoot one of my creedmoors and he was hooked. He ended up buying a 6.5 and now he's talking about selling his 270. His 270 shoots damn well too. I told him to keep his 270, maybe its just a passing fad that he likes the 6.5 so much.

There is much irrational thought on both sides of the Creedmoor discussion.

I have yet to understand why some people get emotionally attached to specific cartridges, either pro or con, and can never look at them impartially, for what they are rather than what they want them to be.

I like the 260, but have owned a dozen or so 6.5 CMs since 2014. I wrote at one point that I'd believe that the 6.5 CM was here to stay once I saw ammo being sold by Walmart. A few short months ago my local Walmart had 6.5 CM ammo from FED/REM/WIN on their shelf, so I'm well convinced that it is here to stay even if it doesn't do anything for the average hunter that a host of other cartridges won't do equally as well. That said, it doesn't hurt that factory ammo is cheap, accurate, and widely distributed, plus all of those entry-level economy grade rifles that are cheap, accurate, and widely distributed.

It’s the modern “270 vs 30-06”.

Which still hasn’t been settled because everyone knows the (insert cartridge HERE) is much better.

Yeah, I was somewhat amused, too

Some background on this guy. He's forever hunted with a .270 Sendero and loves it. He had an old shot out Ruger 77 7RM rebarreled with a Shilen .270 Wby SS tube. That gun's a hammer. So, he's basically a .270 guy. Now, I don't see him buying a Mauser-18 .270, was just curious about him asking that question.

I'm thinking it's more of an academic inquiry than a serious ask. There isn't much he's doing that the Creed won't do or hasn't done.

BTW, that Mauser 18 is an impressive rifle, a notch or two above the T/C Compass, RAR, etc. It costs a bit more than the cheap guns, but is a bargain for what it does cost. I think he picked up this one for $500 or so from a guy who won it at an NRA event. He asked me about buying it and I said he couldn't go wrong at that price. He's now a believer.

DF

John,thanks for posting about the 6.5 Creedmoor ! it sure gets positive and a few negative replies. one of my custom benchrest rifles i had built that i spent a lot of money on, i had a choice around 10-15 years ago to chamber either a 6.5x284 or a 6.5 Creedmoor,i went the wrong way with a 6.5x284 yes the rifle shot excellent 2`s and 3`s but as i got older the recoil laying down shooting FTR class by the end of the day the recoil was painful and no longer fun to shoot this cartridge anymore. so now this great bench rifle is chambered in a 6.5 Creedmoor and to be honest the ballistics are not that much different but my shoulder feels better after a day shooting now. so ya i drank the Koolaid too ! but if i deer hunt hand me my 257 Weatherby Mag., i like the way i smack big bucks with this cartridge better.

FTR and 6.5x284 does not compute.

Pictures of the Mauser 18. I'm not too keen on that big ole NRA sticker, but it doesn't bother him. So, it's OK with me.

DF

Still can't find any H4350 to reload my 30-06 with.............Must confess that I have a 6.5CM and like it.

"Purely looking at the Creed as to it's design and performance, it has few flies...but if it had the 308 based case to source brass, and the same options ie. Lapua brass and ammo options by other mfg. as the 260 does, then it would make those concerned w/the future viability of the round's supply of ammo/brass become moot and the OP would not be asking the question IMO. 65BR"

I was right.........the design, performance have been proven and the brass / ammo options that have flourished since. So much so that sourcing stamped brass is surely far easier now than most other 6.5 rounds in the USA.

No doubt the 284 and PRC case give a nice boost to 6.5 speeds at a cost of bore life, blast, increased cost of components and ammo.

It's surprising the 6.5 - 06 was never adopted widely in the USA. One must give credit to Hornady for getting quality CM ammo out with many bullet options at a reasonable cost vs other cartridges.

I can say, I started with the Swede, 6.5-308, then 260.....then a CM and 47. All have shot well when properly loaded. Good 260 ammo starts with good brass, once you have that and stuff with proper powder, you have great performance. The CM just gets one there quickly and without any hassles.

For the Swede lovers, and I have always admired them and owned several, it's always been a great round since the 1890's - but never had the industry support in the USA for ammo options loaded to it's potential. For handloaders its a top choice and a performer. Whether you get any real incrememental benefit is debatable....and yes I know the CM is a tad slower when both loaded to their potential.

DF - the M18 is an interesting looking rifle, look forward to hearing more how they shoot. The 130 AB has always been my go to for field use in 6.5s, accurate and deadly near and far for me.

Powder is scarce, glad I got some big jugs back when I could.

Don't claim you like the CM, lest you get branded....



DF

Branded? My haircut is high and tight, no man bun here.

As JOC once said quoting an Indian guide “any gun good shootem good”

This one is around MOA with factory ammo, would probably go sub MOA with good hand loads. I haven't reloaded for it, other than swapping 140 gr. Winchester target bullets for 130 gr. NAB's, which curiously shot to the same POI as the 140 gr. and 147 gr. ELD-M's, 140 gr. Win target and those Win cases, same powder, with 130 gr. NAB's. The barrel looks great thru the Hawkeye, looks like a custom grade barrel.

The trigger is easy to adjust with a metric Allen wrench. This rifle is well designed and well built.

I'm impressed and I don't impress easily.

DF

That ole injun might have been onto something....

DF

https://www.eurooptic.com/Mauser-M18-Rifles.aspx#

WOW, a great deal.

I'm not gonna tell my good bud that I can get one cheaper at Europtic than he paid for his.

He looked at retail, as did I. At least he didn't have to fill out a yellow sheet.

DF

Evidently quite a few folks missed this bit of news, summarized in Wikiperidia:

"In October 2017, U.S. Special Operations Command (USSOCOM) tested the performance of 7.62×51mm NATO (M118LR long-range 7.62×51mm NATO load), .260 Remington, and 6.5mm Creedmoor cartridges out of SR-25, M110A1, and Mk 20 Sniper Support Rifle (SSR) rifles. SOCOM determined 6.5 Creedmoor performed the best, doubling hit-probability at 1,000 m (1,094 yd), increasing effective range by nearly-half, reducing wind drift by a third, with less recoil than 7.62×51mm NATO rounds. Tests showed the .260 Remington and 6.5mm Creedmoor cartridges were similarly accurate and reliable, and the external ballistic behavior was also very-similar. The prevailing attitude is there was more room with the 6.5mm Creedmoor to develop projectiles and loads.[32][33] Because the two cartridges (7.62×51mm NATO and 6.5 mm Creedmoor) have similar dimensions, the same magazines can be used, and a rifle can be converted with just a barrel change. This led to its adoption and fielding by special operations snipers to replace the 7.62×51mm NATO cartridge in their semi-automatic sniper rifles, planned in early 2019. In response to SOCOM's adoption, Department of Homeland Security also decided to adopt the round."

13 years and still irrelevant.

What is the magazine length in the SA M18?

EDIT: Looks like the 6.5 Creedmoor comes in their “medium” action, which is compatible with Rem 700 LA scope bases, so I’m assuming there is plenty of mag length. Is that correct?

Off the top of my head, I have personally seen "critters up to and including elk" size in various parts of the world taken neatly with the .257 Roberts, .25-06, .257 Weatherby Magnum, 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.5x55, 264 Winchester Magnum, .270 Winchester, .270 WSM, .270 Weatherby Magnum, 7mm-08 Remington, 7x57 Mauser, .280 Remington, 7mm Remington Magnum, 7mm Weatherby Magnum, .308 Winchester, .30-06 Springfield, .300 WSM, .300 Winchester Magnum, .300 Weatherby Magnum, ..338 Federal, .338 Winchester Magnum, .358 Winchester, 9.3x62 Mauser, .375 H&H and .375 Ruger. Have also known hunters who've killed a number of elk with the .22-250, .220 Swift and .243 Winchester--and by choice, not just because it happened to be what they had in their hands. As a result I would suspect anything that might fit in the cracks of that array just might work as well.

I have a Tikka T3 lite in 6.5X55 It shoots 1/2" groups all day with H4831SC and 143ELDx bullets and Norma brass. It chronos at 2855FPS.I ordered a Tikka T3x Lite in 6.5 CM when Whittakers had a special run with 24" barrels.It also shoots groups around 1/2" to 3/4" at 100 yards using H4350,143 ELDx`s Hornady brass and chrono`d 2700 FPS.Since both rifles are Tikkas ,they both have long actions ,so the CM has no advantage there.I still like it as being an old fart it does not beat the snot out of me.Since then I have had a 6MM CM built and I like it better then the 6.5CM and 6.5X55.It is a Rem Sa blueprinted with a 26" Brux barrel,1/4" lug and pillar bedded into a McMillan Gamehunter stock.With 105 grain Bergers ,H4350,Starline brass it easily shoots in the 2s.I did not get a chance to chrono it yet,but am super impressed.I also bought one of the Howa 6MM CM barreled actions from Brownells and put it in a Weatherby Vanguard synthetic stock and it also shows great promise.So in conclusion I wonder if the 6MM CM will not surpass its parent cartridge?

Yep, plenty of mag room.

DF

Huntz, if you look at PRS caliber usage, it appears to me that the 6mms have already overtaken the 6.5s. So for competition, I think so. For hunting and the casual competitor, the 6.5s still make sense. The 7mm08 used to be the hot chambering in the high power silhouette game until David Tubb started using a 6mm. How he took down rams at 500 meters, I don't know. They must not have been set as heavy as the ones I shot at.

yes the 6.5x284 does in the FTR open class in Minnesota, and most FTR shooters in Minnesota shoot that Open FTR class,that Minnesota Open FTR class allows all cartridges as long as that rifle has no muzzle brake,so yes the 6.5x284 was allowed, I qualified Master with the 6.5x284 at the NRA Minnesota state FTR shoot in the State FTR Open Division,in Elk River,Mn..

F Open? Or some kind of FTR Open?

Yeah.....I think he's a little confused.

Haven't tried a Mauser M-18 in 6.5 Creedmoor, but have had one in 7mm Remington Magnum for a couple years. Aside from the easily adjustable (and very good trigger) it shoots very well with a wide variety of bullets and powders--and started doing so right out of the box.

I could see a club rules FTR weight, bipod etc but more cartridges allowed match.

Huntz you popped any WT Deer yet with your 6CM? Sounds like you have a winner. 8 twist?

I agree above, as good as the 6's are....for hunting big game, I think the 6.5 will always be more popular, but time will tell for deer and hogs, both being very capable. I have always preferred the larger 6.5 over 6 if only for bore life, but do like the slightly flatter trajectory you can get with lighter 6 bullets with good BC. To me it's perhaps a great balance of performance and bore life in a 6mm that will feed easily without magazine mods.

Re: JB's stats on various rounds on Elk, no doubt, many tools will work when used properly. As always, good bullets thru vitals = success.

Yes, a say Tikka could run a similar long actioned round at a trade off of higher recoil like the 270, 7RM, etc. The extra range time with the lower recoiling 6.5 should help folks gain confidence and marksmanship skills. If I wanted to take Elk routinely at long ranges, I might opt for a say 7RM, but most of my shots are well within CM range.

I’ve been a 6.5 fan for years, owning several 260s and Swedes. I really never gave much thought about buying a 6.5 CM until about a month ago when I wandered into the local Sportsman’s Whorehouse with a pocket full of dough and looking for reloading components.

I walked out with a Christensen Arms Mesa in 6.5 CM and brass; interestingly I found RCBS dies for it at, of all places, Walmart. Using cheap Federal factory ammo and reloads, the first 15 break in rounds produced groups ranging from .4 to .9 MOA with 120 grainers. The 6.5 CM is now a permanent member of my 6.5mm family.

As an aside and testament to my affinity for the 6.5, this past weekend I picked up a NIB Winchester Classic Featherweight in 6.5x55.

There's an ex-poster on here who has contempt for it similar to yours. Coincidentally, he's a Custer aficionado too...

i don`t make the rules there, i just shoot there,nice group of shooters . its also kinda fun to try different cartridges other times there at 600 yards too

Int[quote=pete53 its also kinda fun to try different cartridges other times there at 600 yards [/quote]

You mean there are rifle loonies out there willing to try different cartridges?

Just returned from a cow elk hunt east of Roundup MT. Used my Mauser M-18 in 6.5 PRC and 143 grain factory loads to kill big old cow elk at 240 yards. One of the five guys in camp had a 6.5 Creedmoor that had accounted for six one shot kills on bull elk, mule deer and black bear in the last two years using the same factory load I used. No flies on that round for people who can shoot. Those six one shot kills were within 300 yards.

Yeah, the same outfit that replaced the 1911 with the M9 and the Model 70 with the 700......All in the name of 'less recoil". Frankly, any discussion of "recoil" when discussing the 308, is laughable. Hey, if you like the cartridge then good for you, but just don't try to tell me that it's "better" than what i use. Yean I know people keep telling me they hunt big game with a 223, 22-250, 243, etc and they are really no difference between them and a 300 Mag or even a 308 given proper or equal shot placement, but sorry, I'm not buying...

You've obviously never spent any time with a sub 6lb 308...

Naval aviator, so there's a bit of ego there.

This....^^^

A Remington M600 308 was the worst recoil that I've ever encountered and that includes a 505 Gibbs.
3 shots sighting in and my shoulder was blue

As compared to what, a 8 lb 458 Lott, a 10.5 lb 450NE or even a 7.5 340 Weatherby or a 375? But I have shot a Savage 110 ultralight t and found recoil to be a non-issue

I hardly have enough hair left to keep my hat from sliding around on my head..........getting too old to care what others think anyway. I just know what works.

What!?

Oh, I forgot, you're a real man...

So apparently it's ok for you to reply with an obvious jab and not ok for me. but I forgot what an A sshole you are and being you consider the 308's recoil as a recoil , you're a pussy to boot.

A very good (in my opinion) video on the 6.5 Creedmoor. I've sait this before, arguably the best cartridge design in 100 years, but I still don't see a spot for it in my gun selection.

I don't care who you are that right there is funny!

DF that's a great report on the M18, and MOA from factory ammo in a factory rifle can do a lot of work!

JWP, long ago someone had a 308 Mohawk at the range, it sounded like a Cannon and I had no interest in trying it out.

Loved the 243 and 222 I once owned............a CM would be well suited in a carbine sized rifle, deadly and handy.

I chopped a '96 Swede I once had that sporterized to 21" and it did very well........I recall 4350 Loads running 2800 range with 120s........did just fine.

Edited

Holy buttfuqk, Batman! About spit my coffee!!!! 6.5 Queefmore has reached a whole ’nother level of gayness! LOL!

Almost too easy....

Impressive round, impressive rifle.

I'd pay the few extra bucks for an M-18 over one of the "cheap rifles" It's not that much more money and a lot more gun, IMO.

And 6.5 CM factory fodder doesn't disappoint, not hard to see why it's popular.

DF

But it doesn't recoil enough to assure the compensators of their machismo.

Well, he didn't pay tax, shipping or the transfer fee. He came out ahead over all.

That Eurooptic deal is hard to beat. I'd rather pay $449 for a M-18 instead of $350-$375 for one of the cheaper guns. Now, some of them shoot pretty good. But if you compared them side by side, IMO the decision would be easy. And, don't bet too much on them out shooting the M-18. Don't think that'll happen.

DF

Yeah, much more deadly on the muzzle end.

DF

Go back to blow drying your chest hair...

Among some other conclusions I've come to over the years is that many hunters firmly believe the harder a rifle kicks, the "better" it kills. In general don't believe that's true, due to several factors. But whatever.

So, with the possible exception of folks hunting the plains, why aren't you using the 6.5 Grendel? It's a 6.5mm, is chambered for ARs and bolts, and uses 120 gr bullets. A little lighter than the 140s, but good for under 500 yd I think.

Recently purchased a CZ 6.5 Grendel bolt-action, and am thinking about buying an AR-15 "upper," to try it out. That's part of my job.

Indeed.

I don't know about availability of factory 6.5 Grendel ammunition in the US, but it is available too. But not as widely distributed as the 6.5 CM stuff. Bill Alexander didn't have the mechanism or cash to market the Grendel like Hornady had for the CM. It's part of the mix, that in the short term at least, sees some cartridges do better than others.

I only recently got a Grendel, but mine is a single shot that I want to use primarily as a range rifle. Have fun with your two. I believe the Grendel is underrated, considering the majority don't hunt deer or hogs past a couple hundred yards. 6.5mm cartridges are riding the wave. Surf along!

Funny, today I was at one of the local Shootatoriums looking at what ammo was available on the sparse shelves. They had very little of anything (except 270 and 308), but they did have some 6.5 Grendel.

It's sold out up here. Then again, we have spotty supplies of everything.

Every cartridge serves a purpose. Some practical, and others fashioned by advertising. As so often happens on this site and others, people debate the merits of one cartridge over another.

I believe the Grendel is underrated, but given time, will blossom.

A friend of mine is 6’-7”, despises recoil, and builds 14+ lb rifles for LR shooting. He absolutely loves the Grendel!

As a simple hunter I can’t see the point given the incredible availability of the Creedmoor. But for the AR platform and other specialized uses I get it’s appeal.

I've just recently become aware of the 6mm ARC. Do you have any plans to evaluate that cartridge in the near future? Seems interesting because it's supported by Hornady and I believe it's a SAAMI approved cartridge as well. I'm curious to see if it will take off or fizzle out.

My Mauser walnut stocked M12 6.5x55 is the same.......except the trigger was perfect as it came. Nothing needed to be done except give it a quick clean and mount the scope. I've messed around with a few other rifles the past few years but the M12 is one I'll keep.

There is nothing to be found down here, especially the "popular" stuff (270, 308, 06, 6.5 Creed, 243, etc) Plenty of shotgun shells and the odd caliber that never sells anyway, but I would expect 9mm, 5.56 to be in short supply, but when the "regular" stuff can't be found it's insane.

Well someone had to do it! Now quit whining and get to work!

I've been on the ledge for a CZ-527 6.5 Grendel for a while now and when/if things improve will probably spring for one.

+1, this one looks like a lot of fun in a lightweight bolt action sporter. Chuck slayer in the springtime and a buck killer in the fall.

Nothing like the start of a good pizzn contest.

yep i have seen and heard that too . i have help guys in the past site-in a bigger rifle ,but not anymore ! me now days no-wanna shoot a kickin rifle anymore, i have a 6.5 Creedmoor with a brake on it and using this rifle has been joy to use on the range no recoil and accurate too,i like the favor of this koolaid 6.5 cartridge,its pain free.

Good info on that M18 Dirtfarmer. That Europtic deal is a steal. I just wish it had a threaded barrel. In spite of the Creed not kicking much, I've fallen in love with suppressed shooting. May have to try a Bergara Ridge because of that, but the Tikka is such a tackdriver it's hard not to just grab it and go.

Interesting stuff MD, and I'm glad you brought the older threads back up. Entertaining as usual.

[quote=Steve Redgwell]So, with the possible exception of folks hunting the plains, why aren't you using the 6.5 Grendel? It's a 6.5mm, is chambered for ARs and bolts, and uses 120 gr bullets. A little lighter than the 140s, but good for under 500 yd I think.[/quote

The Classic Swede is great as are many other fine 6.5 rounds. In the Grendel one must only read the forum dedicated to it to see its effectiveness.

That said, for a bolt rifle, the perfect ‘minimalist’ deer round and 6.5 just COULD BE the 6.5 BR 😉

Seriously you will gain about 150 FPS over the Grendel. 308 bolt face. Can run in a ‘micro’ sized short action if you wish. All the pleasantries of the Creedmoor but even less bark, recoil, and more bore and brass life. What’s not to like?

I will flatly say, for 300 yds (conservatively, 400 not out of the question) and under a 6.5BR in a handy carbine will do quite well running say 120 Ballistic Tips giving a nice trajectory vs anything needlessly heavier. Expect 2700-2800 with appropriate powders in a 19-21” bbl.

For a woods load (or anything under say 200-250 yds) a 100 TTSX would be very interesting as your ranges would keep velocity sufficiently high to get expansion, and penetration is without question. That said to me the round is PERFECT for 120’s. Trajectory will be hampered by 130-140’s and again, the 120 is Plenty and truth be told that applies to most game hunted up to 400 yds with 6.5’s, IMHO.

All that said no doubt a Grendel might get you there and a Creedmoor certainly will, but with factory rifles and ammo. But hey, for the handloading Loonies out there who want something different than those and the 6BR, it’s in my mind the remaining unsung hero.

Time for you loonies to do the right thing.

Lol. Very close!

I'd happily shoot that! NOE mould?

Holy sausage fingers!