Enjoyed his article that showed up in my email today from Wolfe publishing. Was that an older article that got recycled or is Ross back?


41

I learned to use magnum primers in my Hornet from his original article many years ago. Not sure what you were sent.

He explained the difficulties one will find in reloading for the 22 Hornet & he definitely mentioned experimenting with different primers.

Article title


.22 Hornet
Top Loads for the Littlest .22 Centerfire
By: Ross Seyfried | June, 22

That is an excellent article. I still have that magazine. And the one he published on the .17 Remington.

In my opinion, he was about the greatest gunwriter this country has ever seen. Somehow he found time to become an IPSC World Champion and an African guide along the way.

With LilGun, sure. With H110, 2400, and 4227, standard SP. Always am amazed when another Hornet article shows up and they ignore the proven practices of the past and try to make one primer do it all. Tiny case, tiny charge of easy-to-light powder- tiny primer.

The Seyfried articles on the Hornet got me off to the right start, JB finished the job by figgering out the best magnum primer for Lil Gun, the CCI 450.

I am lost on why one would not use LilGun in the Hornet. JB was late...

He truly is a master of all disciplines. Yes he's easily the best this country has produced, even more so than my great uncle Elmer.

If you mean Elmer Keith, Ross isn’t a pimple on Elmer’s butt…

Lil Gun is great, but H110 shades it a bit for accuracy in my rifle with 40gr VMaxes, and other powders have their place too, in mid-range loads for example, or rimfire-equivalent.

Then there’s that old problem of availability. Was down to my last jug of LG until recently. H110 has been easier to find. The primers one has on hand might dictate powder choice too in this age of dearth.

That might be going a bit far, but he certainly has been entertaining and helpful.

Ross is not back with Wolfe. It's a reprint of his original .22 Hornet article--which first appeared around 20 years ago.

The only magazine that I know of which Ross writes for anymore is THE DOUBLE GUN AND SINGLE-SHOT JOURNAL.

Might also mention that Li'l Gun is not the only good modern powder for the Hornet. Alliant Power Pro 300-MP also works well in the same slot, though it's slightly slower burning than LG. CFEBLK is slightly slower then 300-MP, but works well in the K-Hornet and 17 Hornet. But those powders (and Hornady's .17 Hornet) came along after Ross published his initial Hornet article. Would strongly suspect he's used them since...

I read about folks having trouble with the 22H reloading. I can't say that I've loaded a bunch but did keep a Sav 23 and a 219 killing stuff and never found it to be overly hard to load for. 2400, 4227 and Lilgun(after the turn of the millennium) and surprisingly the 46gr Win HP shot tiny groups. I'd buy that bullet a "K" at a time. I kept a little Lyman turret press just set up for the "Bugs" (Hornet and Bee). I used the 218 Bee FL die as a neck sizer for the Hornet.

I bought a bag of those Winchester bullets and one of the very similar Remingtons, about $6.99 a hundred IIRC, probably off the Grafs’s clearance paper they used to mail out. That’s where I also found $7.99 Nosler 150gr .308 Partition Golds (50). Still have the .22s as I found VMaxes about the same time.

I do like the Speer 46gr FPs for light loads, but have yet to stick anything with one.

myself i just use my 22 K-Hornets for critter kill`n , when i reload i just use the Hornady reloading book 11 grs. H110 , 35 gr. V-Max , standard small primers ,now mostly used cases that have been fired to form a K-Hornet case then with my Redding full length die resized. i only have 1x6 tactical Burris scope on a Ruger rifle with a reworked 3lb.trigger . rifle will shoot a inch at 100 yds. when i shoot it on a bench but my son with 30 year old eyes does better . most of my critter kill`n is 40-60 yds. and that rifle is very accurate and would hit a dime then at 50 yds. because i have it dead on at 50 yds. now days i never shoot more than 100 rounds 22 K-Hornet ammo but 90 % of those 100 rds. kills critters dead ! the K-Hornet is a very neat little cartridge that really does alot with 11 grs. of powder , the K-Hornet humbles me for how well it kills critters with no recoil and so cheap to shoot ! i was planning a trip for out west to shoot prairie dogs but now with the high gas prices my K-Hornets and other rifles, son and i won`t be going dang it !

Did Elmer ever write anything besides white man need bigger bullet to kill coyotes? 270 not big enough bullet to small. No less than 500 grains will do. Big fat heavy bullet mo better!! Aaaarrgghhh..

Elmer forgot more than most will ever know.

A dwarf standing on the shoulders of giants. Entertaining none the less.

As the villagers light torches and grab pitchforks.

Ha I was just giving Shrap a hard time.
Elmer’s good I always liked 44 Mag.
All joking aside I don’t think I’ve ever read any of Elmer’s stuff or very little.

There was a time in our world before the internet, computers, even TV when bullets weren't as reliable as they are today. Back when the 243 was introduced bullet reliably was so so. I had some 100gr bullets pencil through and 80's not penetrate and gave up on shooting little bullets at deer. Big heavies were ALWAYS reliable, 180gr RN's in the 300 Sav and 308 and 220's in the 06, I never had a failure. The smallest cartridge I'd deer hunt with was one of the .25's with 100gr Partitions or 117 RN's but those .257 bullets had 50+ years of development over the .243/6mm's in this country.

Youse guys are comparing apples to oranges. Elmer came from an era of lead cores with light jackets, a proven performance disaster at higher velocities...what worked?.... big heavy wide diameter bullets. Ross in a much later era had the benefit of smaller lighter bullets driven fast and still holding together with good success. In other words, they were both correct...using the products of their time. BTW...they were friends. Seyfried was more than a pimple too, he put Linebaugh on the map when he used a .45 Colt Linebaugh to dump a cape buffalo without drama. As far as the Hornet goes, Ross' recipe just works in a variety of rifles...if you don't like it...don't use it, you need not trash talk the man.

yep some of Elmer Keith`s stuff is interesting but in my 69 years of life i have always notice little guys like Elmer like big things makes them feel bigger i guess ? we always called it little man syndrome , Elmer Keith`s books were kinda boring . i enjoyed and felt writers like Colonel Townsend Whelen were better reading and more accurate on his reloading for his times. and to be real honest John Barsness books are very excellent and John / Mule Deer is always been very helpful on 24 hr. Campfire with his own experiences with reloading ,his hunting and knowledge about guns too . guys he is working dang cheap for us too, so ask him questions and buy his books ,i do own all of their books including his Wife Ellen`s recipe books that i give also for presents to the ladies in my life. >> now if i can only get Ellen to send me some chocolate chip cookies ? "grin and a wink " Pete53

I always enjoyed Seyfried's articles. He was a good story teller and wrote based on experience. He also had lots of neat rifles.

I lusted after "olde yella". As I remember, it was a Mauser in a ridiculous (and sexy) maple stock, chambered for 338-378KT (I think) and believe it's prior owner was Keith.

Someone (MuleDeer ah-hem) should do an article on Seyfried's rifles.

Same here, always turned right to Seyfried's articles in G&A. The history of the old rifles and cartridges are pretty danged cool to me, the ones that were spawned to kill elk and deer at further ranges.

My favorite Ross story is the one where his lady friend went hunting on an estate with some dinky, iron-sighted single-shot. The managers told her she could have all the game she killed with that popgun for free. Soon after, they were begging her to go bird hunting or anything besides what she’d been hammering with her little cannon.

Ross could tell a good story

Link to the article?

https://www.handloadermagazine.com/22-hornet

41Rem: I have had a love hate relationship with Rifles in caliber 22 Hornet for well over half a century now.
Owned most all of them (Rifles in 22 Hornet caliber) from Anschutz to Winchester and MANY, MANY in between.
Never really had any what I would call "accurate" Rifles in 22 Hornet - try as I might.
About thirty years ago I bought a new, stunningly beautiful, Ruger #1-B in 22 Hornet and as beautiful as it was it would NOT shoot well!
I tried everything and did so for many years - then a fellow CampFirer on this forum suggested I try "nickel plated brass" and the then newish Hornady 35 grain V-Max bullets in my Hornet.
I did so and immediately that 2.000"+ grouping 22 Hornet shot a 5 shot group at 100 yards that measured .778"!
I recall that fellow CampFirer mentioning way back then that "neck tension" was/is critical in his accuracy obtaining with his 22 Hornets.
Whichever it was (the new neck tension of the nickel plated brass or the new to me Hornday 35 grain V-Max bullets) - that load is what I use today in that beautifully stocked Ruger #1-B.
I would LOVE to read Mr. Seyfried's article on the 22 Hornet - any suggestion on how to?
TIA
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
P.S.: I have a Leupold 6x18 variable power scope on that Ruger #1-B - and its "twin" that I also bought new (a Ruger #1-B in caliber 218 Bee - also afixed with a Leupold 6x18 variable scope!) about the same time, shot quite well, from the get-go, with my beloved Sierra 50 grain Blitz (not BlitzKing!) bullets?
In other words I think the shape of the 22 Hornet case (and its neck?) has something to do with its tendency to be inaccurate?

Craigster: Thank you for that link - you must have posted it while I was typing and checking my records.
Thanks again.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Great article. I enjoyed reading that!

VARMINT GUY the K-Hornet is more accurate but not really much faster. Big Stick knows it too

That article is part of a pair, the other in RIFLE, about Hornet rifles naturally. I forget which one came first, but they were in successive issues.

I remember Seyfried wrote about Hornets back in Guns and Ammo in the 1980's. Recommended an about to be discontinued Winchester powder with small pistol primers as being the most accurate combo. Growing up in the UK, shooting my Dad's beautiful BSA mini Mauser Hunter rifle in .22 Hornet, I thought I had the holy grail of loads. I found the last 4 pounds of that powder in the UK and still have a couple pounds left. I love the Hornet and still have the BSA as well as a Ruger. Ross was a pleasure to read and he writes very well.

Ross's articles were what compelled me to buy various .22 Hornets--starting with a T/C Contender Carbine in the "standard" Hornet. His comments were very helpful, though I eventually decided another factor was perhaps more important in the "superior" accuracy of the K-Hornet.

Also, my second .22 Hornet, a Ruger No. 1B obtained directly from the factory in 2003, was FAR more accurate than his earlier 1B--probably because by that time Ruger had been hammer-forging their own barrels for around a decade, and were really good at it. With it's best load my rifle would put TEN shots into around 3/4" at 100 yards.

Have owned two K-Hornets, one a CZ 527 and the other a Brno of similar lineage to the one Ross mentions. I eventually decided, due to considerable testing, that an equally important factor in K-Hornet accuracy is the straight-sided cases can't tilt nearly as much in sizing dies as the tapered "standard" cases. Discovered this by measuring both neck and seated bullet run-out during various tests.

Eventually I decided to sell my Ruger No. 1B (which which I'd take thousands of prairie dogs out to 400+ yards) to pete53, partly because I realized I didn't use it nearly as much after buying a superbly accurate CZ 527 .17 Hornady Hornet years ago--which proved to be superior when shooting small "colony rodents."

But eventually also discovered I wasn't "over" the .22 Hornet--and a couple years ago acquired another single-shot through the Campfire Classifieds, a BSA Martini that has originally been a .22 Long Rifle target rifle, but had been rechambered and converted to centerfire. It turned out to shoot my handloads for the Ruger 1B just about as accurately!

I first met Ross in 1998 on a black bear hunt on Vancouver Island, sponsored by Federal when they brought out a 12-gauge slug load with Barnes Expanders. The outfitter was Jim Shockey, a few years before he became really famous, and the "camp" was a group of travel trailers on the shore of a bay on the north end of the island. Ross, of course, brought an old rifled-barrel side-by-side 12-gauge double made by a British company, which happened to shoot the Federal load to the point of aim. The drive into camp was about 4 hours, and he actually got his bear on the way into camp, spotting one from the logging road--which is the common way of hunting on the island, due to clearcuts being about the only place you can glass (or even see) bears.

We ended up rooming together in one of the trailers, and I got my bear a day or so later, after a long stalk on a big clearcut. So we started fishing, and collecting mussels to eat at dinner, and got to talk about a lot of things. I told him that I considered him the best gun writer in America, and he confessed that he was unhappy at GUNS & AMMO, and was thinking of writing for Wolfe--which has been my main gun-writing market for about 6-7 years. I told him about being happy with Wolfe, and he made the move within the next year.

Haven't seen or talked to Ross in quite a while now, but have always liked his articles in THE DOUBLE-GUN & SINGLE-SHOT JOURNAL. But would if he ever writes a book would be among the first customers.

Thanks JB

I'd love to have his sweet little reworked Kimber, wonder how well it feeds those 7 Hornets from the internal magazine??

Cool stuff JB..

Thanks!

I didn't start gun writing almost full-time until the late 1990s. Before then was a full-time writer, but wrote for a variety of magazines, including Gray's Sporting Journal, Sports Illustrated and National Geographic on a variety of subjects, including natural history, Western history, fishing (especially fly-fishing), etc. But eventually gun writing started taking over more and more of my time. Learned a lot from Ross, who'd been in the gun-writing business far longer, both by reading his articles and talking with him.

I think a lot of folks shape who we are by what we read until the internet became a thing. My grandpa got me a subscription to Guns and Ammo, kept getting it for me till I was a Sgt in the USMC. Seyfried’s articles on stuff that was crazy to a young man in deer country always kept my attention. 585 Nyati, 475 Linebaugh on Buffalo, the 2 shot group in a hunting rifle, the 300 and 338 G&A, Blackpowder double guns, etc.

I know I’m forgetting a ton but man it was interesting stuff for a lad that didn’t see much in his area other than 270, 30-06’s and 12 gauges…

Another good turn Ross did for me was with regard to my .54 Pedersoli Mortimer flintlock. He had the same model and did a piece on how he modified the touchhole to make it fast and reliable. Spot on!

He ended up shooting a fine old muley buck with his, but mine went down the road in support of higher education.

What a thread! Thanks to all who are contributing. Me? I'm playing the part of a sponge.

LOL Enjoy, I know I am.

I think a JB dissertation on Ross Seyfrieds all time favorite rifles could make a great new book.


Sign me up for a few copys.

OK, the villagers have moved on to heating tar and plucking chickens.

Thanks for the link Craigster.

......... Me too. Besides the favorite rifles a book or series of articles on Ross's career and exploits would also be a fascinating read.

I would like to read this story. Where could I find it?

Ooh, that’s a tough one, Keith. It’s really just a nugget in one of his pieces on single-shot rifles, not the main story. This one was IIRC, a .360-ish (think .38/55). He’s written a good bit about such things. My takeaway from this and a lot of what he’s written is that you don’t need a cannon to kill stuff, a moderately heavy cast bullet even at well under 2000fps will go through a lot of meat and put stuff down, something Northwoods moose hunters knew well. Pretty sure the story was in RIFLE or HANDLOADER, probably RIFLE.

It’s raining; I’ll look around a bit. Meanwhile, here’s a list of Seyfried stuff someone posted here some time back. The links seem to work. There may be a CD available as well:
***************************************************************************************
I love reading Ross Seyfried,  one of my favorite people.  Here is an article on the 475 and 500 Maximum.  I thought I wanted a 475
Linebaugh for years,  until I fired one.  A bit more power then I need.  Wow.  

http://www.docdroid.net/udbz/april-1991.pdf.html

I haven't gone through the whole list, but looks like a lot of his writing here  

http://www.docdroid.net/udep/index.pdf.html

http://www.docdroid.net/udbz/april-1991.pdf.html

http://www.docdroid.net/udh1/june-1993.pdf.html

http://www.docdroid.net/udgq/june-1990.pdf.html

http://www.docdroid.net/udgc/june-1989.pdf.html

http://www.docdroid.net/udg0/july-1993.pdf.html

http://www.docdroid.net/udfr/july-1990.pdf.html

http://www.docdroid.net/udf7/january-1995.pdf.html

http://www.docdroid.net/udbe/april-1987rs.pdf.html

http://www.docdroid.net/uday/april-1987bm.pdf.html

http://www.docdroid.net/umxa/october-1993.pdf.html

http://www.docdroid.net/udeb/hl-february-2002.pdf.html

http://www.docdroid.net/ude3/hl-february-2000.pdf.html

http://www.docdroid.net/uddq/december-1993.pdf.html

http://www.docdroid.net/udcw/august-1994.pdf.html

http://www.docdroid.net/udcz/august-1995.pdf.html

http://www.docdroid.net/udcm/august-1986.pdf.html

http://www.docdroid.net/udc9/april-1998.pdf.html

http://www.docdroid.net/udek/hl-october-2001a.pdf.html

http://www.docdroid.net/udeo/hl-october-2001b.pdf.html

http://www.docdroid.net/udew/january-1991.pdf.html

http://www.docdroid.net/uddh/december-1989.pdf.html

http://www.docdroid.net/udfe/january-1997.pdf.html

http://www.docdroid.net/udds/hl-december-1999.pdf.html

http://www.docdroid.net/uaji/april-1986.pdf.html

http://www.docdroid.net/udek/hl-october-2001a.pdf.html

http://www.docdroid.net/udeo/hl-october-2001b.pdf.html

http://www.docdroid.net/udew/january-1991.pdf.html

http://www.docdroid.net/uddh/december-1989.pdf.html

http://www.docdroid.net/udfe/january-1997.pdf.html

http://www.docdroid.net/udds/hl-december-1999.pdf.html

http://www.docdroid.net/uajs/april-1991.pdf.html

http://www.docdroid.net/umfi/march-1992.pdf.html

http://www.docdroid.net/um8f/october-1987.pdf.html

http://www.docdroid.net/um7s/may-1988.pdf.html

http://www.docdroid.net/umg3/march-1993.pdf.html

http://www.docdroid.net/umd6/september-1988.pdf.html

http://www.docdroid.net/umf3/march-1989.pdf.html

http://www.docdroid.net/um9f/october-1989.pdf.html

http://www.docdroid.net/umaj/october-1990.pdf.html

http://www.docdroid.net/umbb/october-1991.pdf.html

http://www.docdroid.net/umku/october-1998.pdf.html

http://www.docdroid.net/umhk/may-1991.pdf.html

http://www.docdroid.net/umi4/may-1992.pdf.html

http://www.docdroid.net/umgg/march-1998.pdf.html

http://www.docdroid.net/umie/june-1996.pdf.html



http://www.docdroid.net/umii/june-1997.pdf.html

http://www.docdroid.net/ume6/september-1996.pdf.html

http://www.docdroid.net/umea/september-1998.pdf.html

http://www.docdroid.net/ulji/ross-seyfri...olvers.pdf.html

Thanks Pappy! That's Goooooood stuff!

I just downloaded all of the ones I could. Be good to look at back through them.

Bravo! Thanks Pappy.

Don’t thank me, thank the guy who cobbled it together. I just copied it to my Notes.

Well it looks like one of us has a horseshoe firmly wedged in our nether regions Keith. It’s my habit to go through my giant tub of magazines, mostly Wolfe, and select a bunch to reread. I also keep a few out that have something of particular interest. Seems the one in question is behind Door #2, saving me considerable trouble.

The article is in HANDLOADER 225, October 2003, pages 70-77. “Miniature Black Powder Express Cartridges”. As I said, the tale of the lady and the free game is near the end, and is only really a long paragraph, but the article remains one of my favorites, not only from Ross, but in general.

I well remember reading Ross's articles as a young pup in the UK, never imagining that one day I'd be living in the USA and having access to many things I didn't in England. One article that still sticks in my mind is the one where he had a knife custom made with a 'hump" in the middle of the 3" blade to facilitate easier field dressing on (I think) buffalo in Africa. Pretty cool stuff for a pimply 17 year old in bumf*ck England...

Sounds like me, Pappy.

i read the article on the Raging Bull 22 Hornet was a good read i did have one problem with it ? i now want a 22 Hornet in a Raging Bull revolver. and yes Ross Seyfriend is another good writer.

Not related to the 22 Hornet, but this is a Ross Seyfried article I particularly enjoyed. It is about the Ruger Bisley flat top chambered in the 44 Special, and how well it did after fire-lapping, and with heavy cast bullets (280 grain). Good stuff.


https://www.gunsamerica.com/digest/ross-seyfried-lipseys-ruger-flattop-44-special-bisley-revolvers/

Having owned a 12” Contender for that cartridge, I can only suggest you employ plugs, the best you can find, and muffs. My son, who once testfired a .350 RM into a snail in the store he worked at, causing considerable havoc, still talks about the blast from that Contender…..

Thanks Pappy,

That will make for some good reading when I have time. I need to go cut grass now as lunch is over.

Me too!

Ross is still the most skilled and knowledgeable gunwriter out there in his preferred niches. I suspect he lost interest in trying to appeal to a pretty ignorant audience and semi-retired to just the DGJ job as he got older. I hope his life is going well; last I knew he was in Kentucky on a big chunk of land. Hopefully watching wildlife and burning a lot of powder. A class act all the way, super literate, very helpful, and a walking encyclopedia of firearms knowledge.

I too count myself as a fanboy of RS. Thanks for the link to the Hornet article.

I have three sort-of Hornets - a German kiplauf in 5.6x35R(Euro version of the Hornet), a Stevens 44 in .22WCF, and a Winchester 54 in .22 K-Hornet (converted by Lyle Kilbourn himself). I need a "regular" .22 Hornet to round things out. The kiplauf and Stevens have .226 groove diameters, standard for those two cartridges, and only get used with oversize cast bullets. Medium charges of 2400 in the kiplauf and lighter charges of Unique and Red Dot in the Stevens (black powder pressures are called for). Standard Hornet dies serve to load for them but I made an expander/mouth belling die to accommodate the larger cast bullets. Actually those two cartridges preceded the Hornet and in fact were the basis for the Hornet.

The 54 is a different animal and that gets treated much like everybody else has described, with Lil Gun, small rifle primers (no small pistol magnum primers here unfortunately), and Speer 45's. It is scary accurate, turning in enough 1/2" 100yd. groups to tempt me to call it a 1/2MOA gun.

When I'm home next week I'll take family portrait of them, with hopes that they entice a regular Hornet single shot to join them.

Well Ol Elmer never learned to shoot well enough to kill elk with a 270 Win, so that pretty much shows us all we need to know about Ol Elmer.

Many times I showed up at Ross's ranch near Roggin and he was neck deep in some whacky project.

Took him a week to build half a dozen pin fire cartridges to hunt a big whitetail down on the Platte.

Other things the statue of limitations probably has not run out after 30 years.

Then there's "Miss America," the rifle Melvin Forbes built for Ross on his biggest action, for the .416 Rigby necked down to .30 caliber. It was NOT a lightweight by any stretch of the imagination, but it shot to well at a mile that the U.S. military asked Ross to send it to them. They concluded it was so accurate they refused to send it back to Ross--who had to enlist the help of one of Colorado's members of Congress to get it returned. (Have heard both ends of the story from both Ross and Melvin.)

Ross does not play only with older guns.

I recall him playing with a fast-twist .22/284 before such stuff became a “thing”.

A bit over-bore.

Did Ross ever do a write up, including a centerfold shot of Miss America ?

Hal

HalH,

I know he wrote it up in G&A, but don't recall one way or the other about a "centerfold" photo!

Man, I’d like to hear about that story.

That sounds like a good one.

ME TOO ,sounds very interesting

Ross, Phil, JB, and others - somebody with the ability to do so needs to either get them to write their autobiographies or else write biographies of them with their cooperation. Their stories need to be recorded.

Here are a couple of pics of Miss A when I was shooting her.

Bench in Ross's front yard and the 1 mile target.





The smaller group was with the "good ammo". I was holding left edge of the bull on the first 2 because the flags were showing slight right drift.
On the 3rd shot I said something abut holding left edge and Ross told me to hold center for the 3rd shot.

Even he makes a badish wind call on occasion.



JB's story of SOCOM trying to keep the rifle is true. It was a few douches who ended up getting an epic azz chewing.

I suppose this is going to trigger someone.

Cool post.

As a kid when most of my friends were talking about sports hero’s and Michael Jordan or Joe Montana I was following gun writers. Seyfried was my favorite and always the articles that I read first even when G&A was loaded with talented writers.

How did you get to know Ross?

Cool stuff John. Do you remember much about the bullets you were using back them. Pretty good shooting for a mile, even for todays tech.

Thanks for posting them up.

Be good to hear about the butt chewing that took place, or the details around it.

I wondered why this thread on the 22 Hornet had taken off to four pages...

Now I know, and it makes me smile.

Like many here I too read a lot of Ross's articles and grew up reading Elmer Keith's Sixguns. I think many of us learned so much from the gunwriters, then and now.

Regards, Guy

Here I am thinking about the last time I saw a 22 Hornet rifle for sale in a gun shop.......

I called John Linebaugh about his big bore revolvers. I was in Okinawa when Ross's story on the .500 came out in G&A.

When I got back to USA I gave Linebaugh a call and asked if any of his customers were in Colorado and would they be willing to let me shoot a .475.

Linebaugh threw Ross under the bus but I knew he was close so it was sort of a set up. This was back in the day when people answered their home phone.

I called Ross and he grudgingly agreed to let me come out and shoot his .475 revolver.

I didn't shoot his barn and seemed able to hit the target so he sort of took me under his wing. I owe him a lot.


Bullets were Sierra 30 cal 210gr MatchKings. Barrel was a Douglas and 32 inches. Rifle weight about 17 lbs.

From what Ross told me he made contact with SOCOM and offered to send the rifle and ammo out for them to test.

After a bit of time he got back in contact and was told the rifle was to dangerous to be in civilian hands and was not going to be returned.

Other phone calls happened and a General was involved and apologies were made, by the General, and a rifle was returned post haste.

The General claimed azz chewings were done but I always thought an O-3 or two should have been fired and cashiered.

Ok

Very cool.

In the G&A article on Miss America, as I recall there was a "centerfold" shot of Ross at the bench with the rifle (perhaps cleaning it), and the Continental Divide just barely visible in the background. I thought it was pretty cool.

Pretty sure mine is the first one I saw, or at least one of the first three. My LGS received four Browning Low Walls. The counter guy took his pick, then I got to choose from the remainder. His must’ve been really something because mine is pretty nice. $695

Just a random trip to the shop. Serendipity.

Very good stuff John. It is a bygone time. I know getting to shoot some of his stuff he was writing about back then would’ve been a helluva treat for me.

And the recount about the rifle, epic cool [bleep].

Agreed about the 03’s getting the business. I can’t even imagine the conversations occurring back then. When a GO has to reach down and work some stuff out, heads usually get spinning.

I believe that Ross wrote that the bullets were 220 SMK. I do remember in a phone conversation Ross said they were 220 grain SMK

LOL.

You're right and I don't think Sierra even made a 210gr SMK back then.

I had VLDs on the brain.

Thanks for catching that.

John,

Another little detail about Miss America: Somebody from the military contacted Melvin, saying they'd be interested in him making some other rifles along that line. Mel thanked them for asking, but said he was too busy building hunting rifles.....

Now that’s funny too.

Another said it, but little short stories about that sorta thing is looney news.

Miss America does look like a horse of a rifle though. Neat rifle.

Enjoyed this thread, had a hard time deciding what varmint round to go with when I bought my 204 several years ago. 22 Hornet was a close 2nd when I made my decision.

Thanks for the links Pappy, I’ll enjoy the reading.

Miss A was built on a real deal ULA long action and I think it has a smaller diameter than a Rem 700. JB would know better.

The Cartridge was an improved 416 Rigby case necked down to .308 and was sort of a test to demonstrate the action was still very strong.

At first it wanted to string vertically when bedded with the barrel free floated. Hanging 32 inches of heavy barrel off the small action was making it flex although I am not sure a Rem 700 would not of also had problems.

Ross bedded a short bit of barrel in the fore end and the vertical went away but it was a bit sensitve to shooter technique and how the bags were setup.

Hence the shag carpet on the front rest. It wasn't pretty but it sure did slide nice on the carpet.

How much diameter smaller than a 700 can accommodate a 416 Rigby diameter case?

Makes sense, good recall on that John. That is a beast of a case.

We have come a long way but it's cool to see what folks were doing when that was an unheard of sorta feat.

Umm... not quite OGB.

Here is Elmer Keith's .338/378 K/T.

https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...h-grade-338-378-k-t.cfm?gun_id=101531559

Ross Seyfried Mauser "Oulde Yellow" was chambered in the .338/378 K/T. Ross hunted elk with Elmer one fall and got to watch Elmer kill a spike bull with the Champlin .338/378 K/T. After that Ross wanted one for himself and had it built on a Mauser action. IIRC Ross used a .375 H&H on that hunt and killed a 6 point (I think) bull elk with it.

Damn, that's a cool rifle right there!

John,

The bolt itself is more slender on NULA actions than, say, Remington 700s--but the bolt face is just as large, and the bolt lugs not as "tall," but longer. Which are two reasons Melvin's actions have lasted longer as pressure-test actions for one major bullet manufacturer.

I am kinda surprised Melvin didn't fully-bed the barrel, since he does on his lighter rifles. The stocks he makes are VERY stiff, and actually add to the stiffness of the barrel--one reason his rifles shoot so well, even those with lightweight barrels. But it's also probably why Miss America became more accurate when Ross added some bedding. (I also wonder if Melvin suggested that. May have to ask him!)

John

Gotcha. I knew there was a "Keith" link there somewhere.

Still, lusted after "Olde yellow".

Enough that I've considered "dressing up" my LH M70 in a maple stock like that one.

Wouldn't make it any more practical, just cool.

Interesting. I’ve read before that Melvins full length bedding plays a big part in the accuracy of his pencil barreled rifles. I’d love to hear the feedback if you get a chance to talk about it with Melvin. Rathet or not Melvin didn’t see it being necessary for a heavy profile even given the length of the barrel or if it was how Ross ordered it or an experiment between the two. Odds are it’s one of those things that if you don’t ask that will eventually be lost to time.

I heard that story in Ross's kitchen. Funny how all of us have those we look up to and Ross really did have a lot of respect for Ol Elmer.

The herd of elk were at 500yds and Ol Elmer wanted a spike for eating. I have held the case as he gave it to Ross and the 275gr Speer bullet fragments that came apart in the bull.

Ross always wanted a Champlin rifle and as they were not really interested in building any more he had to settle for a second hand one in of all things a .243 win.

It had the octagon barrel with the full vent rib and all the bells and whistles but, at the time, the .243 Win chamber was not really what he wanted.

The very expensive barrel went off to Cliff LaBounty for a rebore to .308 and chambered in .300 H&H Mag.

The rifle didn't shoot great so Ross milled a dove tail in the barrel and threaded a mating piece that allowed a screw through the fore end to lock barrel and fore end together. Pretty much the exact opposite of free float.

Rifle went to a solid 1 MOA shooter.

The above is my recollection for 30 years ago so keep that in mind.

John,

Am not totally surprised by the fore-end screw results. Elmer always believed the pre-'64 Model 70 Winchester shot well due to the forend screw, and Jack 0'Connor mentioned the tension of the screw often made a difference.

Also that the most accurate factory-original pre-'64 sporter I've ever owned was a 1950s .30-06 that, with the forend screw tight, regularly put 3 rounds of 150-grain Winchester factory ammo into half an inch or less--with a 4x scope. But also restocked a friend's .270 from the same era with a piece of fancy walnut, and got rid of the forend screw, and full-bedded the forend with Acra-Glas Gel. It shot 150 Partitions similarly to that .30-06....

Might also note that NULAs retain their zero extremely well. In fact the only ones of the several we've owned that didn't were due to the scope going bonkers...

John

That’s great stuff JB. I still have a fair pile of of those 275 Speers just to have I guess. I’d always read as a kid they were a fair elk bullet. I imagine out of my 338 Win I won’t have quite as much steam on them as the old KT.

I sat in Ross's living room and held Oulde Yellow, it was built on a Brevex magnum Mauser action. Ross told me of the shot he made on a Sable I believe, at long range, running.
Can't recall the range but it was over 500 yds. Anyhow the ranch owner , a Boer, was so impressed with the shot he offered his daughters hand in marriage for the rifle!
I asked Ross if she was cute? and he said very! he declined the offer and told me it was a lucky shot!

Ha, even better! Great thread.

The 585 Nayati by Sterling Davenport was uber cool... he had it built because his hunting concession had young rogue elephants and he wanted to protect his clients.

I remember reading about him tying the rifle into a tire and pulling the trigger via a string I believe, for the first shot.

I was just wide eyed as a young kid reading these stories. At the time a 338 Win was a pan elephant rifle to me coming from a deer hunting family.

By the time I met him he had cooled his jets regarding the magnums.... he believed a 270 with a 140 gr Failsafe was adequate for pretty much everything.
At the time I built a 220swift with a 1/8 twist and told him about it, he confided he had a Dr. buddy that did the same and it was sudden death on deer to 500+ yards with a Sierra 80 match king

Another funny Ross story... he was having a conversation with a fellow hunter, he was talking about the 270W with 140 failsafe bullets was a perfectly adequate Cape Buffalo rifle... well the guy disagreed with him.... so he offered a wager for every Cape Buffalo he killed with a single shot from the 270 the guy would pick up the tab... if it took two shots Ross would pay... the guy declined

irfubar,

I started regularly writing for gun magazines about the time the Fail Safes appeared in the early 1990s. In fact, on my first safari my hunting partner brought a .300 Winchester Magnum with factory 180 Fail Safe ammo. I was impressed enough by their performance to start using FS bullet regularly, as did Eileen. On her first safari a few years later she used my NULA .30-06 with 165 Fail Safes, and it performed great.

But during our conversations Ross and I discovered we both disliked the moly-coating on the later Fail Safes. (The early ones had the black Lubaloy coating still used on Ballistic Silvertips, which unlike moly does not build up in the bore.) During one of our phone calls I mentioned how I'd been using a moly-solvent, from some company I can't remember, to remove most of it, by putting a box of bullets in a Zip-Lock bag and pouring in enough solvent to cover the bullets, waiting a day, then rubbing the bullets down with paper towels and steel wood.

He started experimenting and came up with an even easier solution--perhaps acetone, but I don't remember exactly what. Anyway, neither of us found any difference in pressures/accuracy with Fail Safes after removing the moly. I used a "moly-free" 300-grain .375 Fail Safe on my first Cape buffalo, which worked great.

John,

That is very interesting! I still have a small stash of the 270 , 140 gr Failsafe, but shoot them in such low volume I never noticed a problem with the coating.
When I told Ross I shot my sheep with 130 gr accubonds in my 270, he was very displeased....

Yeah I shot that rifle.

750grs at 2300 fps in a 10lb rifle is a bit snappy.

It was tied into a lead sled type rest and Ross pulled the trigger with a string from under his concrete bench while RJ and I watched.

This was during testing to see how fast he could get the 750gr going in a bolt gun.

I am sure it went over 2500fps and might have touched 2700fps when he called off the experiment.

Working loads were 2250-2300 and to be blunt the recoil was bad enough I think it would have been a detriment for hunting.

With a solid front rest and standing it could be shot but that gave you lots of time and support to get lots of muscle on the gun.

Off hand and in a hurry that thing could get loose on a guy and that level of recoil has detached more than one retina.

Ross shot one of the top end loads off hand that day and it litterally kicked him out of his ear muffs, no joke. As in his muffs and shooting glasses were tied in a knot.

A .416 Rem makes a lot more sense to me for any kind of gunfight with a critter and I think now days Ross would agree as he carried a .416 Rem in Africa after the .585 was conceived.

Then there was that time Ross and Hamilton Bowen decided to see how much H110 it would take to crack a factory Ruger Bisley 6 shot cylinder with heavy cast bullets.

That was fun.

Was that in a 44 mag or 45 Colt? How much did it take?

Cool stuff... thanks for sharing, John

[/quote]John,That is very interesting! I still have a small stash of the 270 , 140 gr Failsafe, but shoot them in such low volume I never noticed a problem with the coating.

When I told Ross I shot my sheep with 130 gr accubonds in my 270, he was very displeased.... [/quote]

The problems occurred when shooting other, non-molyed bullets in the same rifle. The moly-fouling often resulted in weird accuracy and POI results.

Which is why I de-molyed the .375 bullets. Was going on an all-iron-sight safari in Botswana's Okavango Delta with Dave Scovill, then the editor of RIFLE and HANDLOADER. Dave took a Winchester 1886 lever-action in .50-110 customized by Doug Turnbull, and I took two rifles, a Ruger No. 1 .375 H&H with an NECG aperture rear sight, and a remodeled CZ 550 .416 Rigby with the factory open "express" sights.

I planned to use three loads in the .375, all with 300-grain bullets and 76 grains of H4350, if I recall correctly. The three bullets were the de-molyed Fail Safe, the Nosler Partition, and the Speer Grand Slam Solid, a tungsten-core flat-nose. The only way I could get all three .375 bullets to shoot to the same place was to de-moly the Fail Safe. Otherwise the moly built-up in the bore made the other two go off in odd directions. It worked out fine: Used the Fail Safe on a buffalo, and Partition on plains game from impala to kudu at ranges out to 225 yards. (The Speer was only used on one finishing shot.)

Experienced the same squirrely performance with non-molyed bullets in various other rifles that had been "fouled" with molyed Fail Safes, including the .270 Winchester NULA Eileen used for several years--which is why she switched to the 140 Barnes TSX the first year TSXs appeared.

That’s the sorta stuff I wished was caught on video or something.

Pretty neat stuff that you got a front row seat for those shenanigans John..

As for cracking a Ruger frame.. just all balls

Ross had the 585 Nyati built because his 577 Nitro express double was too valuable to risk in the field

Thanks. I do understand how lucky I got to sort of be in a right place at a right time.



45 Colt.

The plan was start loading H110 under I think a 325gr LBT LFN, but it might have been a 340gr, until we could measure some yield in the cylinder.

Sounds easy if a bit dangerous.

Ross, of course, was the designated shooter and Hamilton and I were the designated drivers to the Greely ER if things went really wrong.

Ross suited up in his protective gear which amounted to his Ziess glasses, a clear face shield and some gloves, he might have even worn a tee shirt.

Crimp to nose was probably .450" on that mold so off hand I don't know how much H110 gets to a compressed load but lets say 24grs.

At a compressed load nothing was moving but the bullet at magnum velocity.

Ross added another grain. More bullet speed but neither Hamiton or I could find any movement in the cylinder.

Ross adds another grain.

More bullet speed and no cylinder yield.

Ross adds another grain.

Less bullet speed and no cylinder yield.

Perplexing?

Load another round at that load. Inspect round and the mega compressed load had started to pull/push the crimp.

Load another round and Ross litterally ran to the bench to try and fire it before the crimp pulled.

Little bit more velocity and the cylinder was still in factory form.

So based on a really redneck type experiment it appears Hodgdon does not make enough H110 to hurt that particular factory Ruger 6 shot 45 Colt.

Nothing in my post should be regarded as loading advice.

This is all good stuff!

I kinda figured you weren't going to hurt the Ruger. I'd have figured the shooter would give up long before those tanks would!

Fellows, this is one of the most enjoyable threads I've read. Thank you and Bravo!

Ross and Mule Deer are two of my favorite writers.

Linebaugh and Bowen two favorite gunsmiths. Along with Dave Clements, who builds a really nice sixgun, as well.

Linebaugh says 45 Colt is superior to the 44 mag. Says it's more gun than a similarly loaded 44 mag.

I believe the Ross had a Champlin made in .340 Wby in which he wrote an article in the September 1989 Guns & Ammo issue. He also had a Weatherby Mark V Fibermark in the .340 Wby.

This has been a really good thread. Thanks to all who contribute.

He did have a favorite .340 Wby and you are probably right as I seem to remember he managed to convince Champlin to build him a rifle after he bought that .243 Win second hand.

I bought a Ruger in .338 Win and worked up loads using 225 gr Xs and Hor SPs and RL22 that clocked a bit over 3000fps.

We were talking about the loads one day and asked me to bring it out next time.

Now Ross was never a fan of the .338 Win because there were .340 Wbys so why settle for less bullet speed. I was on a bit different budget and the Ruger fit that budget.

So next time out as his ranch he set up a chrono and asked me to shoot my loads. 3010fps. Easy bolt opening and cases lasted at least 3 times.

He shakes his head and laughs and said his 225gr .340 Wby loads were running 2950fps.

He might have used that .340 Wby to kill his big Brown Bear. I remember him taking a Rigby in .416 on maybe 2 unsuccessful Kodiak trips.

Long time ago but a fun trip down memory lane.

Thanks guys.

Always enjoyed reading his works. Like everyone I had favorites over the years. In no order of preference; Ross, Jack, JB. There were a few others, but names don’t pop into my old brain at the moment.

Another vote of thanks to all who have contributed stories to this thread. I love hearing the background about individuals and firearms.

Umm... not quite elkhunternm

I bought Elmers 338/378KT based on Ross's reccomendation when James Julia auctioned off Elmers guns, and the linked gun isn't it. Also, Ross was shooting a 375 Weatherby when he was hunting with Elmer.

Here's Elmer's gun. https://www.morphyauctions.com/jamesdjulia/item/1058-373/

I just remember "Olde yella" being long and beautiful in that maple, "weatherby-esq" stock. Man I wanted one.

I also remember not wanting it in 338-378kt! Too much of a good thing for me.

My LH M70 in 7mm rem mag has a 26" barrel and could well be dressed up the same way.......

Hmmmmmm

Ross was shooting the 338/378 kt on that hunt with Elmer

The 338/378 Keith/Thompson was a 378 Wby magnum case shortened and necked to 338. Elmer developed it with Bob Thompson from Colorado.
It sent a 250gr at an easy 3000fps.

I remember reading his successful brown bear story. I can’t totally remember but I’d thought it was a 340 her used but I do remember it being a damn well written story.

Here you go OGB a picture of Ross's "Oulde Yellow."

Ha Ken, you proved me wrong! it was a Gemsbok not a Sable.... thanks buddy going by memory is getting trickier every year..

Man, I’d love to read that full article. Old school cool in those big blasters!

That's not what he told me.

It was a .375 but I could not say whether H&H or Wby.

He was showing me the fired case Elmer used and the bullet fragments of the 275gr Speer he found while dressing the spike.

Thanks Mike for posting and just for Phil, Ross was actually guiding Ol Elmer on that hunt.

Just sayin.

My mistake, We're both wrong. Ross shot his with a 375 H&H that I believe he later had converted to Weatherby

Ooh , you may be right. Elmer used the 338/378 KT. As I told Ken going by memory is getting harder... my apologies

That's why trips down memory lane are fun.

Great thread.

Just remembered a story Ross told me about visiting Elmer at his home in Salmon. They had just handloaded some ammo for one of Elmer's rifles, and decided to fire a few rounds to "check the pressure." So they headed down into the basement, which had a stack of firewood. The door to the basement was next to the kitchen, where Loraine was cooking a meal, as as they passed through Elmer said, "We're going to test some loads, mother." She was evidently used to this, so nodded, and they shot the handloads into the firewood, and decided the pressures were okay....

Hell yes. I’m enjoying the hell outta hearing about those two. The elk hunt is just icing on the cake.

The Champlin rifle is just darn cool as well. What a cool design.

I don’t believe my wife would be as keen on that, ha!

I remember that article well. The magazine is down in the basement somewhere.

I also remember reading a story where Ross used a .340 to take a bear. If I remember correctly, it was in deep snow. Like the other article, the magazine is somewhere downstairs.

As I said Ol Elmer is not exactly my favorite and I think he did some damage by convincing a large group of hunters that the .270 Win and 30-06 were not suitiable rounds for elk hunting.

That's not to say I ever skipped reading any thing Elmer wrote but time has shown he was not right.

I remember asking Ross about how well Elmer shot.

Ross said that when he got to know him Elmer was an old dude on the down hill side.

On that elk hunt Elmer spotter a porcupine in a tree about 50yds away. Everyone was on horseback.

Ol Elmer turned his horse away from the varmint and drew his 4" M29 .44 Mag.

Left hand on the reins and one hand on the revolver resulted in a dead porky and Elmer still in the saddle.

For those that ride that's not a very simple thing to accomplish.

John;
Good afternoon to you sir, I hope the day's been a good one for you and you're not in any flood zones where you're at.

Thanks for the Ross Seyfried stories, I appreciate getting the perspective on them.

If it means anything, the above story is exactly how I recall it as well and if I searched long enough I might still have it stashed away somewhere. I want to say it was in a Guns & Ammo back then.

While it's not exactly a "personal" connection with the story, it did help the "light go on" so to speak when I could not for the life of me get a .308 Norma I'd built to settle down and shoot.

Money was tight 30 years ago and sticking on a different barrel wasn't an option, so I read Ross' article a couple times, then decided I didn't have enough meat to cut a dovetail like he did, so I built a barrel band and pillar bedded it into the stock. That's what the lump that didn't rust blue quite the same as the barrel is.



It worked much, much better after that. I want to say last season was the 14th in a row that I didn't adjust a thing on it.

Thanks again for the stories and all the best.

Dwayne

That’s a helluva shot on the porcupine from a fella standing on two feet on flat ground.

Agree about the 270-06 for elk but he was probably jaded some with the common bullets out there back then which is pretty understandable. Plus when you have good results with the bigger guns it’s probably hard to go back and retry what you tried 40-50 years before.

Seyfried wrote a great one I end up Rereading now and again after he “refound” the 270 later in life.

Just cool to see how those folks came about their opinions.

Love that 308 Norma Dwayne... as you know I have a soft spot for the old Norma Mag

I made the progression up through the caliber ranks , got as far as the 338 mag. It didn't seem to kill any better than my old 270.
I told Ross of my journey and he just grinned... he came to believe in the 270W

I think we’re remembering the same one.

Dwayne,

Thanks for contributing to this thread. Rick's Island of Misfit Toys draws a fair share of toxic posters but you always remain above the fray and are a class act.

Well done.

John

During my first marriage, our second house was a cheap 1-story with a "crawl space" instead of a real basement, in a neighborhood just outside the city limits. Back then so-called "affordable" chronographs existed, but I couldn't afford one--so built a "ballistic pendulum" in the crawl space, using the directions in P.O. Ackley's HANDBOOK FOR SHOOTERS AND RELOADERS. You couldn't hear the report of a centerfire outside of the house, but definitely could anywhere inside. One of my wife's cousins came visiting one afternoon when I was down there, shooting a .30-06, and after I touched off the first round could hear a yelp from above.

But that wasn't one of the reasons we got divorced!

Ha, great one. I can imagine that made occupants jump a bit.

Dwayne, your big Norma is a cool rifle buddy. Always enjoy when you show it off some. Just a well built BG rifle.

A unbiased observer might say you have Upgraded.

Just Sayin.

John,
That's crazy and cool all at the same time... luv it

John,

Definitely. In fact have been told by more than one old-fashioned friend that my second marriage was "way above my station."

John

I’d follow those tracks myself. I still like shooting the bigger guns too, I just don’t believe they change much other than they all need some fresh air now and again!

Pappy;
Good evening my cyber friend, I trust the day was kind to you and yours.

Thanks for the specifics of the article, I meant to thank you this morning but got caught up in the projects of the day, but when you put it up last night I found it in the rows on the shelves and read it before bed. It's indeed an interesting article.

One of the firearms Ross had that I absolutely lusted for was a prototype drop block made in Germany. If memory serves it was a Blazer maybe???

It looked sort of like a Hagn in a way, but not exactly either. It was chambered in something exotic like a 7x64R too, which made me want one all the more.

Anyways thanks to you, to John Burns, John Barsness and the rest who've been kind enough to share their interactions and memories for a very fine thread.

All the best.

Dwayne

JB,

It goes both ways.

Tell Eileen Hi for me.

JB.

"Rifle Hunting" Annual #3 1999 "Bear Odyssey" p.38-45 Champlin .340 Weatherby 225-grain bullet (not specified)

Going to say 99.9% it was a Barnes X bullet.

Ross layed that tanned bear skin out on a visit while waiting for the full size mount. It was monstrous and covered the entance to his storm celler.

There were some small bugs in the the tanned hide.

Ross being Ross went off to the barn and came back with some kind of pesticide long banned (in the 80s) and gave the tanned hide a good dosing.

I was like that stuff has to be bad and he was like "It kills all the bugs dead".

I was thinking you’re right. Either a Failsafe or an X bullets. Either way, great account of his hunt with his excellent writing as usual.

Funny about the pesticide. I don’t think I blame him.

5SDad, I need to look for that one. Be a good reread.

I think I have that issue! I remember pics of a tent and a pack full of meat, and that gigantic hide tacked up to dry.

Thanks, that's a "Raquel Welch" rifle. Just stays pretty.

Irfubar, getting older is not for wimps!

Missed this one the first time around--but around 15 years ago was sitting around an African campfire with the PH I've hunted with most, the now-retired Kevin Thomas. He's a year older than I am, and was born and raised in what was then Rhodesia. His first job out of high school, at age 17, was a ranger for the Rhodesian game department--and he killed his first charging Cape buffalo bull shortly afterward while leading several tourists on a "game viewing" tour in a park.

During our campfire discussion I asked Kevin what he considered the smallest reliable Cape buffalo round. Without hesitation he said, "The .30-06 with 180-grain Nosler Partitions." I was somewhat startled, but asked for more details.

It turned out one of Kevin's jobs in his 20s (meaning the 1970s) was working for one of the huge Rhodesian cattle ranches as a culler. Back then domestic beef cattle were more valuable than wild game--in fact there was virtually no safari industry. Kevin's job involved culling Cape buffalo, which wasn't done at night with head-shots, but during the day during drives. The ranch workers would push buffalo herds toward him, as slowly as possible, and Kevin's rifle of choice was a .30-06 with handloaded 180 Partitions--which at that time were the original lathe-turned models with a "relief groove" around the area of the partition.

I then asked if he'd ever had any difficulties. The culling involved every size of buffalo, from calves on up to mature bulls, and Kevin said, "Never."

I then asked, "Even with frontal shots on big bulls?" He shook his head.

Have also known several other PHs who've regularly used the .30-06, 7mm Remington Magnum and .300 Winchester Magnum to kill mature buffalo bulls. In fact the 17-year-old son of my PH on a 2003 safari in Botswana's Okavango Delta was along on the hunt, partly as an apprentice. He'd recently killed his first bull with a .300 Winchester Magnum and a 180-grain Barnes TSX. It went around 75-100 yards before keeling over, after a typical heart-lung shot....

I believe that rifle was a Blaser BL 820/821/822 in 7x65R. Their mechanism was something out of a watchmakers shop and thus were too expensive to manufacture and make a decent margins on. They surface from time to time and usually nudge five figures when they do.

The first firearms article I have memories of reading was Ross’s Shooters Insight column in G&A. It had to be around ‘88-‘89 and I was 13 or 14 at the time. Ross wrote about when he first got his .577 Rigby Rising Bite and how the first time he shot it it was off of the hood of his pickup truck! Impressionable as I was, that sealed the deal to be a fan of his writing ever since!

John, when Tia, Taj & I hunted Zimbabwe 3 years ago the two PH's in our camp kept 308's as their personal hunting rifles

https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...-sterling-davenport.cfm?gun_id=101055305

Man, who doesn't need one of those!

Very cool! Thanks for posting that Ed.. Beautiful rifle as well.

What a rifle! I noticed it has a Redfield 102 receiver sight.

DavidReed;
Top of the cloudy morning to you sir, I hope that this finds you well and you're getting weather you need if not what you want.

Thank you so much for that sir!!! I do believe that's it.

Here's a photo off the ether webs of one.



Here's a Hagn for comparison, so my memory isn't that far into the rhubarb this morning.



By the way, if you ever get a change to handle a Hagn, by all means do so. The ones I looked at were nothing short of perfection as far as fit and finish. Way back in the day we used to have a fair sized gun show in the small city we're closest to and I believe it was Ralf Martini who still worked with Martin Hagn then brought some actions and finished rifles over for the show. Wow.....

Back then which has to be 30 plus years ago it was $2500 for an action and while I lusted mightily for one, it just was not in the budget.

Thanks so much again for that info sir, I very much appreciate it.

All the best.

Dwayne

How would YOU know,kid???

I am in the beginning stages of getting old.

Funny thing about this thread is that Ross killed a cull cape bullalo bull using a .22 Hornet with a single shot over the heart.

Might be the ultimate Stunt Shot.

Ross had the ability and balls to pull such à shoot off

Acccording to the story there was a .470 Nitro hanging around.

The .22 Mag was pretty much a failed experiment.

Don't go buff hunting with a .22 MAG.

Man, now that would have to get your BP up just a little….

Having not much to do with Ross, but I’ve often wondered about the supposed ironclad Buffalo. I grew up reading the same magazines and books as many have listed on this thread, though they were old copies I picked up here and there as I’m not near as old as most here, and they all talked of giant rifles needed for buffalo. Having killed a goodly number of beef cattle, mostly big old cows and bulls that were sick, I often pondered just how different a buffalo could be, after all they look like a wild cow. I of course realize that stopping one is different than killing one, but assume that much like my experience killing grizzly bears that a charge is the exception rather than the rule and the exception is what sells stories. They are just made of muscle and bone after all.
And I appreciate the stories from those who’ve met the man, he’s always been a favorite, I subscribed to DGJ for a year mainly because that was the only place to get his stories.

This gem of a post is the reason I wade through so much hate and BS here. Thanks to all.

I had a fun recollection that I figured a few of you would enjoy.

Ross had a nice pond on the ranch that he stocked with small mouth bass and we went fishing one day.

I had a new fly rod and wanted to try and catch a few on poppers.

There was a canoe on the bank that Ross went to move and a garter snake shot out from underneath.

Ross let out a squeal and went into a dance trying to get away from the snake as the snake was trying to get away from him.

After a moment he started laughing and said the only critter he really didn't like were snakes.

Anyways we caught some bass.

When we were testing the 6mm Mach IV he figured we needed to kill something with it to make sure the 100gr BT wouldn't just bounce off.

He was driving down the canal road and spotted an appropriate feathered varmint for testing. I center punched it and it did about what was expected.

He wanted to inspect the wound channel so we drove down to it. He said something about deer flies as we got out of the truck.

Holy schitt were there deer flies. Ross was in his usual shorts and running shoes without a shirt and man were those flies vicious biters. It didn't take me long to head back to the truck cab but he wanted to inspect things a bit longer.

He had one hand slapping flies and the other handling the carcass all while I was bitching about leaving from the Toyota cab.

The [bleep] fact about this thread is that a fella like Ross couldn’t come here and BS with us. Some jacktard would ruin it quick.

Great memory JB

Interesting that a 22 Hornet thread is mostly posts about buffalo, elephant, and 1000 yard cartridges, but I'm enjoying it anyway.



Bruce

Really didn't know what I was getting into when I posted this up 😁

Lots of Ross Seyfried fans & with good reason. I've enjoyed quite a few of his articles that have been linked to this thread.

41

Does anyone have access to or can tell me how to access the articles Ross wrote on the 270 WSM. I remember he wildcatted one before Winchester came out with it.
Thanks.

I believe Ross took top honors at an IPSA or some such handgun championship at Table Mountain Gun Club in Golden, Colorado back in the day. I never learned that until recently, and it stuck because I used to shoot there before it closed down.

John,

Good story!

I never knew about Ross's snake-phobia (the only time we hunted together was on Vancouver Island), but know some other experienced hunters with the same problem.

Hunted in Tanzania's Selous Reserve around a decade ago, and my main hunting partner was a guy who'd hunted a LOT in various places. The daytime temps ran well over 100 degrees. I finally left my thermometer back in camp, but they might have been 110+. I long ago adapted the huntiing in shorts in hot African conditions, but my partner kept wearing long pants--due to his fear of snakes. He KNEW a poisonous snake could easily bite through his pants, but they made him feel better....

Oh, and we ran into 4 black mambas during the hunt...all of which went the opposite direction, very quickly....

I grew up reading Ross Seyfried in Guns & Ammo, then later Rifle and Handloader, and am enjoying this thread immensely.

What a great thread. As a young man, I was greatly influenced by a few gun writers and Ross Seyfried wad one of the main ones. That's still true today and I just turned 69 last month. The comments by Mule Deer and others are very interesting. Thanks all! We need more of this kind of discourse here on the Fire.

^ THIS ^ but i still shoot many crtters with a Hornet

Doesn't surprise me one bit as Ross took top IPSC honors in the world. '79 I think... Shooting a Pachmayer Gunshop built 1911/45 using 200 grain cast lead SWC's. One famous photo was him in mid air jumping off a 4 or 5 foot high wall w/45 pointed straight forward, finger off the trigger & off hand heading for the two handed grip, I figure to break the shot as soon as he touched down, maybe sooner.


I missed the date. Seyfried won the bronze in '79. He won the Gold in '81

Always enjoyed reading Ross. Got to talk to him once and he was a gentleman.

JB,

LOL.

Ross hated snakes and according to him when the trackers started playing with snakes he had a very hard line of keep that schitt away from me.

Everyone has their things.

Shooting Cape Buffalo with a SA revolver, cast bullets, and no rifle back up, no problem.

Snakes were just not his thing.

I too totally dislike snakes!! I've had so many close calls I can't have much luck left. Many years ago (back when a dollar would buy something) I had saved & earmarked $10,000 for a Cape Buffalo & Leopard hunt. After reading about & talking to some people (including Jim Carmichael) about the abundance of SNAKES in the "dark places", I mostly lost interest.

I have seen five total snakes in eight safaris, lasting up to a month. One was a harmless grass snake, but did see four black mambas on an 18-day trip to a hotter part of Tanzania--no doubt because it WAS hot.

In most of southern Africa the safari season is their winter, the coolest time of years, when snakes aren't very active. Have seen FAR more snakes per days spent in the field when hunting the U.S., even in October in Montana--many of them poisonous, including various species of rattlesnakes, plus cottonmouths and copperheads in the South.

While mowing the lawn last week, I dispatched a copperhead. Not with the mower! :-D

WV is pretty snakey in places, but I’m mostly not in those places in warm weather. Still, even in my yard down in the Shenandoah Valley, I watch where I put my hands ‘cause you just never know…..

My son lives near Richmond and killed two copperheads in one season right next to his house in a big subdivision.

Here is another funny Ross story.

Ross had a big barn and a resident flock of feral pidgeons living in the barn.

He had a rule that you could only shoot a pidgeon if it had absolutly no white feathers.

He said he was trying to breed an Aryan flock of all white feral pidgeons but it was really a way to not kill off all the pidgeons and not have a few around for "testing".

Took me almost three weeks to read this thread. On the Miss America 30/416R, his quote about getting a slow enough powder, "If we can't get something slow enough, we'll use nitro soaked charcoal briquettes". Or something to that effect. And the short termed thoughts of hitting his windmill or water tower. Figured the bullet would fly '20-'30+feet above it in mid flight.

His meticulous documentation of his experiments. Bullet deflection/Brush guns. Made multiple peg boards of same materials and shot lots of cartridges to back or debunk myths and wives tales.

His opening page in Nosler #? on the 378Weatherby. Not finding a blood trail, but lion clockwork at the spot of the shot.

Always looked forward to anything he wrote or Garry Sitton.

I remember the brush deflection tests and the lion clockwork comment, too. I always enjoyed his writing and feel a new kindred spirit of sorts with Ross since learning we share a severe aversion to legless reptiles.

Ross is the man. Always enjoyed his writing.

One of the best threads in a long time !

excuse me for interrupting the wave but another question about the hornet. I've been told by reliable sources. and actually one person on here that sometimes a hornet shoots better with small pistol primers. I guess that is probably powder dependent but this is the first time I have read of using CCI 450s small rifle primer magnums specifically for the little gun is this understanding correct?

What?

The 24hr CF hardly has any do nothing whiners that are jealous of anyones accomplishments.

It's all happy feeling and camaraderie.

You seem to be missing the chaos the certain narcissists here fuel.

I respect guys who don't want to come here to get into arguments over this stuff. I also respect guys who DO want to come here and argue over this stuff. It's all fodder for growing knowledge.

I have used both SP and SR primers, std and mag, in the Hornet. Experiment to find out what works best in your gun.

I’m not very smart and am only barely smart enough to know enough to admit it…. Several years ago my parents and I were hunting South Africa. We along with our PH were driving down a two track ( not sure they call them that down there) and saw a HUGE snake ( some sort of constrictor). Well, we may have had a few beverages, but the PH and I thought it would be fun to catch that big snake…. it was quite chilly and neither of us thought it would present any problem. He went to one side and I went to the other and we started closing in on the snake. When we were both about 6’ from the beast it lifted up and looked DOWN at us ( we are both 6’3” tall) and let out a hiss that could not be mistaken as anything less than serious. I don’t know who made it back to the Land cruiser first but I’m damn sure Carl Lewis would have been impressed by our speeds!

I ain’t two smart but I four shore ain’t messing with no more snakes in africa!

You just may be smarter than you think....

Wow! 10 enjoyable pages and no biggest dick contests.

Good article played with the hornet for a time, moved on to the 222. Might try the hornet with some pistol primers....

Thanks for the article! Definitely gives me some ideas to try

In my experience with half-a-dozen Hornets, both standard and K, pistol primers tend to work best (when they work) with "traditional" Hornet powders such as H110 and IMR4227, and traditional blunt bullets.

With plastic-tipped spitzers in the 40-grain range Li'l Gun and 300 MP tend to shoot far more accurately with the CCI 450--though they also tend to work best in single-shot rifles, where the bullets can be seated closer to the lands. This includes my latest Hornet, a BSA Martini-actioned .22 rimfire target rifle converted to centerfire and rechambered. The bore is naturally slightly undersized compared to "modern" .22 Hornets made for .224 bullets--which also usually have 1-14 rifling twists. Though not always. My T/C Contender carbine barrel had a 1-12 twist.)

The BSA's bore is not only slightly undersized, but has the typical 1-16 rimfire rifling twist. Yet it shoots the same handloads worked up for more "modern" Hornets just as well, such as 40-grain Ballistic Tips/V-Maxs with Li'l Gun.

What would you suggest as a starting load with 300MP in the K and the standard Hornet?

Alliant lists 11.7 grains as maximum with the 40-grain Hornady V-Max in the standard Hornet (they don't list any data for the K-Hornet), which in my experiences serves as a starting load.

With 40-grain bullets I regularly use 13.0 grains in the standard Hornet and 13.5 in the K-Hornet, with zero problems and fine accuracy. It's a little slower-burning than Li'l Gun.

Here's the photo that gunzo mentioned. I posted it on a Seyfried thread in 2011, but that link has died. Here it is from a new photo site:


.
The image is a scan from a photo in The American Handgunner of March/April 1979, page 29. American Handgunner later used the photo for its subscription ads. The original photo was made by Ray Odorica.

In the 2011 thread, Campfire member gmoats wrote that the photo showed Seyfried wearing his "lucky shirt", which he wore in competitions during the period 1978 through 1980 when we was US national IPSC champion.

--Bob

my 2 CENTS worth cci Bench rest 4 is my go to with ww296 and nosler 45gr hornet bullets .