I’m seeking some input and/or expertise regarding French Walnut, namely grain pattern. Winchester classifies the Super Grade dressed in French Walnut as AAA. In the pictures, what type wood or (grade) would any grade this pattern?

Beautiful. That's all the "grade" I need.

This is extraordinarily subjective. Beauty will forever remain in the eye of the beholder. If you have photos of the rest of the rifle, it would help.

I like straight grain stocks and yours is nicely figured but far from AAA grade. I would call it AA grade at best.

I did find this online:
Walnut Grades
By Ken Smith – Modified 5/16/07
(*New Grading Terms)

The N.H.L.A. (National Hardwood Lumber Association) sets the standards for grading Walnut and other hardwood species. However, they do not grade for figure at all. This is subjective depending upon who you ask. These are the basic standards that we set for Smith Basses for Instrument Grade Black Walnut.

Grade 1 (A) *Plain
Plain unfigured tops and may have small pin knots. Also used for core sets and veneers.

Grade 2 (AA) *Low Figured
Clear and free from all knots and may have an attractive grain pattern occasionally with a ‘spot’ of figure in areas.

Grade 3 (AAA) *Medium Figured
“Crotch Walnut” or marbled Grain occasionally with figure in spots or lightly flamed straight grain with or without presence of the crotch.

Grade 4 (Premium AAAA) *Highly Figured
Handsome figure throughout most of the top. Possibilities include: Flame, Crisscross, Marbled, Crotch, etc.

Grade 5 “Elite Grade” (Exhibition AAAAA) *Extreme Figure
Very Highly figured Exhibition 1-of-a-kind tops. Includes Feather Crotch, Crisscross, Marbled, etc.

NOTE: Exhibition Grade figure stands out better with our catalyzed lacquer Elite Series finis

This would bug me.

I may agree with you (AA). Winchester states AAA. Should I make a complaint. Here is a photo of what may be stuttering, not sure. What do you think?

I do not see what you're referring to. The image is somewhat blurred. Did you crop the photo I uploaded?

Do you mean where the White Arrow is?

Yes, and yes.

Would that be inclusive of the complaint as well?

See the difference?

My take, and my take only; you are looking for perfection in a factory rifle. The level of wood and perfection you seek may or may not be available. If you increase your budget somewhat, you may find some things more acceptable to your discriminating desires.

https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...l-70-270-winchester.cfm?gun_id=101995368

Sure. I think you should complain to Winchester about both of those issues. I would be interested to hear their reply.

That's pretty sweet.

* I specifically stated 'Stuttering' when in fact it's "Sputtering", yet you made no mention of that. Why is that?

If I were selling the rifle I would describe it a "AA Grade". "AAA" is optimistic, but it is still a nice handle.

This Prussian/Daly has what I would call borderline "AAA" French that they used at this period.


Not a good photo but the French wood on this medium-high grade early pre-war Sauer set is "AA-AAA" borderline...close grain with some fiddleback.

https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...l-70-270-winchester.cfm?gun_id=101995368[/quote]

* Sorry, don't like it at all.

Because I am still wondering if I am teaching an AI algorithm new tricks.

No question that I agree with you. However, Winchester states AAA Wood. What do you believe their response to the aforesaid issue would be? That could be construed as false advertisement and misrepresentation. Would you keep it or opt for another stock? I really hate to go through the aggravation, even though I have paralegal experience. Thank you very much for the support.

To the best of my knowledge there are no standards for stock wood grading - one mans AAA is another mans AA, its all subjective.

It is like a beautiful woman, what makes one beautiful to one person many leave another person cold. But with stock woods and women I know what I like when I see it regardless of grade or someone elses opinion.

If you didn't look it over good and notice these "defects" beforehand then shame on you. If you have bought it and don't like it then IMO you should not have purchased in the first place.

If you haven't purchased it yet then don't - problem solved.

drover

All of this is precisely why I said this is extremely subjective. Is Winchester stretching the boundaries a bit by calling something that has zero curl...AAA? Yep. I think they are, and its probably because the word 'French' is in the name of the wood. The reason that it is subjective is that the question will fail to meet a truth condition of multiple observers. (snicker)...and that even applies to the claim that it's 'French Walnut', cuz some of the those observers are bound to tell you its 'European' walnut.

Man I don't know what recourse you have, but my own view is this; that's not AAA grade wood. There's a complete absence of curl, which means the leading optical appeal / quality...is mineralized annular rings.

Good post..

Your're very much adept with wood, and I value your opinion. Surely, you are on the mark with your assessment on the Prussian/Daly: on the money. In this respect, I have two questions for you: 1.) Would you keep the rifle and 2.) is the mark on the butt stock "Sputtering" and would that be a concern, should I sell in the future? Thank you very much for the professional courtesy.

You are 100 percent correct and I do concur with you. However, I've already purchased.

Yes, there is no question as to the grade among those here. Your consensus is considered fact by me. Well, the multiple observers here seem to classify the wood as AA. Winchester has always served me in the past in helping. I'll see what they have to say. Remember this is business 101. Thanks very much for the assistance.

Please share with us their response.

There's not much consistency, that's for sure. This is from an old Calico Hardwoods brochure. Calico used to supply Weatherby's wood:

French Walnut

A Fancy Grade - Up to 50% figure or contrasting color in the butt. Figure is generally fiddleback.
AA Fancy Grade - Up to 75% figure or contrasting color.
AAA Fancy - Up to 100% figure or contrasting color.

Fajen's wood grading system was similar.

Winchester is probably being a bit generous in their grading. OTOH, maybe that's what passes for AAA wood these days.

My experience over the years has been that each species of wood was graded within - in other words, American Walnut could not be compared to Claro or English and so on. Grade AAA blank of English is not going to have the same figure that a AAA Claro has, nor that of a AAA American Walnut. There was not one standard used across all wood type but rather a standard within each type. If you go back and look at any of the old stock sellers ads, where they would have representative samples of wood grades, you'll see what I'm speaking of. Sadly, very few photos do justice to English which is prized as much for its color contrast in longitudinal lines/layers as it is for wood figure such as burl and fiddleback. It's difficult to capture this photographically. Also, you'll find that the same grade - such as AAA - will not be priced anywhere near the same across all wood types. Add to that a stocksmith is going to look beyond the actual appearance of the blank and project what the final product will look like - I always liked having a plexiglass stock template profile to shift around each side of the blank, to see if the stock I had in mind would actually capture the most appealing qualities of the blank. I second what someone already said; wood grading IS subjective - very much so - and like opinions & buttholes will vary greatly from person to person.

Grade A…… nice wood.

"wood grading IS subjective - very much so - and like opinions & buttholes will vary greatly from person to person."

This is absolutely what I believe. Tastes and hot buttons are an individual's alone, but there needs to be some latitudes wherein grading dwells.

I'm pretty much in agreement with the consensus here; not AAA and probably AA. Ruger did the same marketing of A-AA wood on the RSM and bumped things up a grade in their descriptions; Kimber does it, also.

IMO it's a nice rifle that I'd like to own.

This custom looks a little scary through the wrist area.

Yup.

* Sorry, don't like it at all.[/quote]

Post up your custom rifles.

I'm interested in your tastes in fine steel and walnut

*Within the past two years, I sold most all of my prized rifles; namely a Marlin J.B 1978 (N.I.B.) a Remington auto loader with gold inlay and exhibition grade stock, a Model 70 Featherweight 'Classic' .270 New Haven, and a few other items. All were new and not fired. I doubled, if not tripled my money. I have qualms about selling the J.B. Marlin but that's history. I currently have one item on Gunsamerica (N.I. B). The wood is clearly presentation grade. Why I purchased a new Winchester is beyond me.


* In fact, one of the board members of the Hess Corporation offered me $2800.00. I said 'No'.
[img]https://www.gunsamerica.com/9646316...ter-Pump-Action-Shotgun-N-I-B-2--197.htm[/img]

That would drive me crazy.

It's not too bad, seen worse.

Here are some pics of items I still have, not all but a few.

Can any tell me by looking at the below photo, if the area marked with the Red Arrow would be considered 'Sputtering' "Or", and is this of concern?

Since the beginning, I made mention of Stuttering and Sputtering, and there has been no response nor backlash from anyone. Well, it's about time that the factual term is 'Spaulting or "Spalting", yet not any have stated anything about this. This leaves many questions in my mind as to who knows what here: no disrespect implied. I would only believe that someone would have stepped up at this point and said 'something'! In all honesty, this facet was done purposely to weed out those knowing about wood. What would any think here?

The very first thing I noticed when I opened this thread. That would bug the hell out of me. I would have fixed it myself.

And if that’s AAA grade walnut, I’m a Chinese rocket pilot. I wouldn’t even call it AA.

So, in other words, you're an a-hole.

Ignore you go.

Damn, isn't that the truth...

This thread just crashed and burned.

That would imply it was ever airborne

I wonder how this would be graded?

I don't know, there's an awful lot of sputtering going on there.

This is my AAA French Walnut SG as well. The ejection port bugs me as it does AK. Don’t crap about wood grades but it doesn’t hurt my eyes to look at. But I’ll take straight grain figure over crotch wood since it’s typically stronger.

It’s not perfect but it isn’t horrid. I saw the picture of it and caved pretty quick. Guys like me don’t deserve really nice ones anyhow! Hahahahahaha

That’s not true; at all!
In fact, if anyone does, it IS you.

Thanks buddy, I enjoy great looking rifles but like that Linden stocked 270 JOC rifle it doesn’t “look” figured or anything but to me, it looks straight and clean which for someone that may get one wet, or snowy or anywhere in between I appreciate just a nice piece of solid walnut.


Or maple. Sheesh, anyone ever get a SS dark maple M70? You’d think one person on this board scored one, cause it sure wasn’t me!



I like to use them…. Gotten rid of them stock packs.., hate to have to drag them rifles up over the hill

Got to be sputtering cause it ain't spalting. Don't see any fungus or rot in that stock anywhere.

Beretz,

I found this statement interesting: "This is my AAA French Walnut SG as well. The ejection port bugs me as it does AK. Don’t crap about wood grades but it doesn’t hurt my eyes to look at. But I’ll take straight grain figure over crotch wood since it’s typically stronger."

Have owned a number of rifles with fancy-grained stocks, some I made myself, and have yet to have any of them break, even when hunted hard--because the fancy grain has always been behind the grip area, which is where it should be. Have you had any break?

JB, I haven’t broken a wood stock yet, just a McMillan a horse rolled on.


My buddies have broken a Sugergrade stock from a fall in Idaho as well and my old goat elk hunting partner broke a M70 P64 stock in Idaho or Oregon, probably around the time I was born.

As a loggers kid and a guy that likes to build furniture I always shy away from wood around joints that isn’t straight grained.

Id love to try to break a really fancy piece of walnut some day though. For now. Kidding about trying to break it, but things happen on the mountain and if there is a weak link my luck genie seems to pick me for it to happen too.

The point about strength is well taken. Bad things do happen. This one was done on a budget, with a semi inlet from one of the larger online suppliers. "Exhibition" Claro.

beretz,

Thanks for your reply.

Have seen a few broken stocks over the years, and the first I can remember was a very plain one on a post-'64 Model 70 Winchester .30-06, which a buddy owned in the early 1980s. It broke at the wrist, as most do, and was one of my first "repair" jobs when I had aspirations of being a gunsmith. (My repair used epoxy and a 1-4" bolt through the break, which worked very well. But the big problem, of course, was improper layout of the stock, like the one TeeBone just posted.)

Which is part of the reason I've brought some epoxy (usually Brownells Acra-Glas Gel) along on many travel hunts over the last 30 years. The one time I had to use it was on a 10-day horse-packing trip with Prophet-Muskwa Outfitters in that very region about 20 years ago--but it wasn't on either of the two rifles I brought--a custom .300 Winchester Magnum by Charlie Sisk, with a Banser synthetic stock, and a CZ 550 9.3x62 with the original, pretty stout factory walnut stock. Both of those rifles held up perfectly on several hunts in various places....

Instead it was rifle belonging to one of the guides, a .30-06 which had a locally-made lay-up synthetic stock. It broke at the wrist, per usual, and I repaired it with Acra-Glas and some of the fiberglass cloth from the horse-feed bags. It was cured by setting the stock next a hot wood stove, and held up fine for the rest of the hunt. (Heard later from the guide that it held up fine for the rest of the season....)

John

Actually that is not spalting, but rather "Black Line Disease" which is a real thing.

"Which is part of the reason I've brought some epoxy (usually Brownells Acra-Glas Gel) along on many travel hunts over the last 30 years."

That's a great idea.

Claro Walnut can be highly figured but is a very soft walnut.If you press your finger nail hard on it it will dent.
The Stock on that Super grade is about what to expect to get for the price range they are in.It is far nicer than 90% of what Kimber passes off as French Walnut.French Walnut-English Walnut=same,same.

As good of a place as any.

No idea what grade this one would be but I could be pretty happy with this rifle - for me the shape of the stock matters as much as the figure of the wood and this one IMHO has it all.

https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...0-280-remington-41-.cfm?gun_id=102003961

Man, you aren't kidding about that! Nice piece!

Hey, I was eyeballing that one. Don't be showing everyone...

I've been eyeballing this one too

I like the 308 Norma magnum..^^^

My little Kimber Roberts says it has "Select French Walnut." That word "select" reminds me of the little boy in church with his dad. Well into his sermon the minister says, "in conclusion." The little boy looks at his dad and asks, "what does that mean?" The dad replies, "absolutely nothing."

I can't see anything I wouldn't like about that stock, for a factory gun myself. I'd consider myself pretty lucky to scoop up a nice one like that on a rack somewhere.

That Goudy stocked rifle is truly special. Only thing I would change is the scope bases.

Scotty, I looked for a lot of years for a Kimber 257 with wood I liked. I had originally seen this one advertised as "Sold" by an Oregon gunshop. It sort of remained in my mental inventory as one of the top 3 Kimber 257's I had seen. Then about 6 years after seeing the closed Oregon sale photos, I found the exact rifle for sale out of Virginia. I bought it immediately!

Yeah, when they pop up it is one of them things I don't mind paying a little extra for myself. I like the dark lines in the wood.

I searched around a bit myself looking for a nice example of the French Walnut SG that this thread is about. I didn't care really which cartridge within reason but would've liked a 270 Win.. Found the 6.5 PRC and so it goes!

I saw alot of really nice wood on the 6.5 CM versions of the same rifle.

I like that one.
Much better than the typical Kimber "Select French Walnut"!

Sure that one would work just fine - so many beautiful rifles out there

I wish to thank the entire forum in assisting me here and I very much appreciate the amount of support I received. Below is the latest.

I called Winchester this day regarding the imperfection on the wood located at the breech opening, whereby it is rounded at the corner; not squared. Winchester was very professional, courtesy, and assisted me in reference to the aforesaid. To begin, Winchester said (1.) That could have been caused by a shell casing that the sports store fired. I quickly gave that aspect no credence. I said that would require too much force for a shell casing to make that mark. Furthermore, there were no marks on the area. I have two other Winchesters and have never seen that occur in firing rounds.
Options Provided

1.) Send back the gun for the corner to be squared and refinished. In this light, the corner would have to be expanded at least ¼” in my estimation, lengthening the breech opening.

2.) Replace with a new stock (French Walnut) but the time limit to receive is unknown. Winchester further added that there were no short action .308’s in stock or available and they did not know when they would get any. Winchester also said that the French Walnut could, could be discontinued. In hearing this statement, there is a true possibility to this. Also, Winchester said they were having problems obtaining and/ or acquiring the French Walnut from Europe/ Asia due to the state of affairs (Climate) > Covid etc.

3.) I would not be able to get my pick of any French Walnut stock, only receiving a picture of what stock was sent to them. Again, Winchester cannot confirm any date, only stating the rifle would have to be sent in. Winchester also said they could replace with a Super Grade stock, but that would be a lower grade, so why would I opt for that facet?

4.) In the entire conversation, Winchester did place their best foot forward in willing to assist me. I blame them not for this, but can only attribute these issues with the state and world affairs ongoing. If any have not noticed, I collect firearms, yet have sold a few within the past two years. I have no intentions of firing the item purchased. I find the grain to my liking irrespective of the imperfection (defect) at the corner of the breech opening (Wood). This process would entail sending the rifle back to Winchester, waiting for an unknown period for the French Walnut; if ever imported. So, I’m in a dilemma as to what course I should take. Aside from this, Winchester has provided me with options; not any that seem to be good to me. The time is a factor to me for I would not like to tie up the rifle for months. There is a five year warranty and the incident has been fully documented, so I may hold off at the moment.

A.) What steps would any take here?

A picture is enclosed of the area in question which a few here have pointed out.

Good grief... the objection to the port is not that it's a bit rounded, it's that it's TOO SHORT by what looks to be 1/4 - 3/8"... a stock cutout for the ejection port should match the opening fairly precisely.

It’s very annoying….

Who do you think would be the best to tune it up?

@ Beretzs

Thanks very much. I did not take note of the fact, nor was I aware of that. In that respect, I will send it in to be cut. Again, I very much appreciate your knowledge here. Something was bugging me about that, yet you brought out some knowledge. Winchester will have to refinish the rifle again.

* I borrowed your image for Winchester, not that they need it; just for reference. I cannot tell you how much I am grateful for the fact you have pointed out. However, of all the comments, not any made mention of this fact. I definitely owe you. Anything you may need in the area of firearms or accessories I can provide to you at no charge should I have it. Send me a PM anytime.

It seems that on all the latest Supergrades I’ve seen on line, the ejection port is cut too short, especially the short action models. I never could see why they would be that way.

Me either. It’s not like they’re even close.

Has to be a machine computer programmer flaw as I doubt it’s a fella with a chisel doing them all wrong like that

Not adept, and Never without an opinion.

I'm sorry that I missed your post or rather gave credit to Beretzs for the above comment. I never realized the length of the opening, rather focusing on the corner of the wood (breech). However, there was something bugging me about the opening but did not associate the length; that was or is the 'problem'. I'm actually embarrassed at missing this. Would you send in the rifle to Winchester to cut and refinish? I do not know what type of craftsman they have at this point. I did know some of the craftsman in New Haven, yet know nothing of this generation's workmanship. I'd hate to receive a rifle in worse shape. Thanks very much for the heads up. So, apparently I'm in your debt, not Beretzs's. No offense to Beretzs. However, he made no mention that the originality came from you. Seeing that he is or was a marine, that is amazing. Always faithful here, right to the end. Thanks very much, most appreciated.

Apparently I need to work on my symbot clarity.

I agree with Brad. It looks like chit. It is cut short. Now I thought BACO was the prominent model 70 maker. Better than any other era of model 70 made? Browning come on.. Now I can't blame them totally because I had a 2008 limited (first year) that was not like that. However, I believe Fabrique Nationale was more involved back then. Still believe those were the better BACO's, but you tell me:


Maybe their CNC programming just went awry somewhere along the line??? Poor FN Browning. And by "FN" you guys know what I mean..

I’d fix it myself and refinish the stock. A pretty easy piece of work as long as you’re patient and don’t rush things.

Since you are a collector, with no intention of firing the rifle, you might consider pressing Winchester to replace the stock so as to have an example in the original configuration. You say time is a factor, but not clear why a few months matters if you're planning to hold it as an investment.

I agree with others here that opening the ejection port to align with the receiver opening would improve the appearance, but for your purpose it's probably better to have an unmodified rifle, absent the flaw, and leave that decision to a future owner.

If Winchester can't or won't replace the stock, then it is an easy decision.

I'll never purchase any type of firearm ever again from any gun manufacturer. Again, I am very much thankful to Brad who has clearly pointed out the defect in the ejection port opening on the wood in being "too short". I believe that the days of honesty and respect are no longer present, only a batch of thieves seeking to entrap the unsuspecting. I wish not to partake with any of them any longer. God has always provided for me and has allowed me to try my ways, yet they are not His. That is why He said to follow Him.

The sellers have "standards" and they even break it down into .'s or plus. Shotguns, but the same applies to rifles...Although there are places where the same grade can be bought for less.


https://uplandguncompany.com/understanding-shotgun-stock-wood-grading/

https://www.shop.colegun.com/collections/wood-blanks


The manufactures of what most of us buy off the shelf are more than liberal with their classification.

You are way to critical because of one example....However, that is fire typical.

With nice firearm wood you get what you pay for and the workmanship involved...you didn't pay extra for either.

What do you believe I paid?

From your link - https://uplandguncompany.com/understanding-shotgun-stock-wood-grading/

"The real take home is that no single system exists that unifies all stock quality grades. Stocks are placed on subjective scales that vary from company to company."

drover

I read that also....However, the fact is there are gradings that sellers use to quantify their offerings. And examples were shown. Your statement that there are no standards is in error. Go and tell one of them that you are only willing to pay for A grade wood when they classify it as a AAA and see were that gets you. The subjective part of the quote, mainly applies to differentiation on the higher ends of grading by different sellers. In addition, custom wood has two sides....There are many examples of killer wood on one side and school desk on the other. Which alters the final grade. The gun companies suck them up at every chance..They get them at a discount...and one great side is better than none.

That is not a one off rifle....What you paid should have been someplace around the average of what the same rifle sold for across the country. The hard truth is it is not custom wood or craftsmanship. It is a standard rifle spruced up.....and not all that much. To say you will "never purchase any type of firearm ever again from any gun manufacturer" because of this one example,... that you should have known what you were getting, when you consider yourself a collector, is more than a little overly dramatic.

Well, I was unaware and did not know of the ejector port cut-out should be equivalent at both ends (Right and Left). even though I own a few Winchester's, I never took note of this fact. Actually, I'm embarrassed at missing this feature. However, none of my other Winchester's are defective:whereby the port ejector cut-outs are equal at both ends; adjoined properly. Brad pointed this out to me and if were not for him, I would have not known. So, I visited Gunbroker and looked at every example of all Winchester Super Grades and Featherweights and was surprised at what I was seeing. The .300 Win Mags had overextended cutouts on the left side, the others were cut too short and all were off on the 'left' side. Should the cutouts located at the port ejector be uniform on each end; "Ending at the terminal end of the port Ejector and if so, are there any tolerances? Does it really make a difference where the cutout ends in relation to the port ejector? Again, all Winchester's I viewed were cut "too short" on the left side irrespective of the magnums. Thanks very much for the support. It may not be a 'one off' rifle but I believe it has potential, regardless of what any think. In terms of price, the Super Grades are all over the board, contingent upon the wood or what many believe they can obtain. Many, if not the great majority, hide crucial features, many do not allow pictures to be sent, and the rest pray upon those with little knowledge. * By the way, I sent in the Winchester today to have the port ejector opening enlarged. Will this facet detract from "New" or will the rifle be considered modified and/or refurbished?

"I read that also....However, the fact is there are gradings that sellers use to quantify their offerings. And examples were shown. Your statement that there are no standards is in error. Go and tell one of them that you are only willing to pay for A grade wood when they classify it as a AAA and see were that gets you. The subjective part of the quote, mainly applies to differentiation on the higher ends of grading by different sellers. In addition, custom wood has two sides....There are many examples of killer wood on one side and school desk on the other. Which alters the final grade. The gun companies suck them up at every chance..They get them at a discount...and one great side is better than none."

* I could not agree more with your assessment.

Regarding the OP's stock, some folks are saying wood grading is subjective, as if the grading is nothing more than personal opinion. Professional graders (who are not biased by trying to please the boss, as is the case when working for a big corporation) would all agree on the grade of a given piece of wood. A wood grade given by a good grader is a pretty reliable rating.

JMHO, while nice looking, the figure on the OP's stock is not all that interesting, and the pattern lacks symmetry between the left and right sides. This makes it a nice AA grade stock. It is certainly not an AAA grade example. Whether you will ever convince Winchester of that is a different question.

JMHO.

Trees are not symmetrical and the rings vary. What many seek is the marbling, curl, etc. I'd rather have the strength over figure and I certainly would not pay $300.00 or more on a standard 'spruced up' rifle "As 'Battue' said. I never said the stock was amazing. However, I find the grain to my liking. I could have opted for a Black walnut Super Grade stock over the French Walnut but decided not to do so. (A.) The checkering pattern is different on the Super Grade whereas there is no Fleur Di Lis as dressed on the French walnut. I believe Winchester grades the French walnut a Grade III. Thanks much for your input.

* Winchester is correcting the problem with the port ejector slot being "too short". I can say one thing, I'm glad I purchased from Winchester, for their customer service has always treated me professionally. As to all the gun manufactures, I would place Winchester at the top. Sure, there may be some to detract from this statement, yet find another gun manufacturer that will provide support in a professional, courteous way.

I would consider many gun manufacturer’s adjoined as a conglomerate, moving away from the Incorporated business climate. This is nothing new, as the branch continues to spread in all areas of commerce. Aside from bespoke guns and /or gun makers ( I place not much credence in those fellas today); the golden circle of gun architecture has dissipated or no longer present; only those seeking to entrap the unsuspecting. However, Remington and Winchester have always been fine firearms manufacturer’s. I did not wish to see Remington fold, for their company served the American public for many decades. To me, Winchester is the only certified gun manufacturer that still brings the products a few seek, but that is changing quickly as well. That is most likely the specific reason I ordered a new Winchester Super Grade with French Walnut, even though manufactured in Belgium. Maybe, the old is disappearing in place of a different behavior in relation to the current generation. I personally care for it not, but the gun manufacturers are going to follow the road that brings in the most revenue. That’s not me. So, where does that leave those seeking or searching for the past to be rejuvenated in the area of ‘classic’ firearms? ‘Well, I believe the bolt action crowd is dead’ and not many left.’ In this light, Gun Manufacturers are going to follow in tandem to develop those items of interest to this current generation. To me, Winchester is the only company I’ll deal with. This is the end of the line for me, irrespective of what any may say or believe.

If Winchester is going to offer a Super Grade then it would be nice if at least they would make it with real hand checkering. While at the same time perhaps offering a variety of patterns.

If they doubt there is a market for premium, then perhaps they should look at what is going on in the world of shotguns. W has been essentially doing the same with the SG for years….black tip, swivels with a few extra curls in the wood… on a rifle that is heavier than most want today. Not all that much to get excited about.

Here is an example with the 'starting bid' of $2199.99 and notice the port ejector opening (Length). It seems that if the wood has enough 'figure' that seems to offset any defects. I've noticed this on many Winchesters 'for sale' as a general rule. However, there are those selling horrible examples for ridiculous prices. Any input here is appreciated.

* Are there tolerances associated with the length of the cut-out? What is the true purpose of having the wood cut-out at the ejector port?

I don't see a defect there....just the style that Winchester chose.

And What of This? What is "correct" or is it a crap shoot?

OR THIS?

With the different examples, the answer should be obvious….

* To me, "It's not Obvious". What is the definitive answer, if you can answer? 'Should the 'cut-out' "stop" at each end of the ejector port"? > i.e. "SYMMETRICAL": YES or NO.

Well, a lot of thoughts here.

The OP's rifle is not AAA GradeFrench Walnut, nor is it spalted.

I am surprised that Winchester has many ejector port issues. I believe that their QC has been greatly comprised, The Supergrade Model exists to snare buyers that don't know the difference between quality and run of the mill factory rifles.

In my mind custom guns that one examines carefully is where it is . There is only one correct ejector port design on a factory rifle, we all know what that is ,the rest are mistakes . A lot of buyers , including the OP, do not recognize the error. The OP did not know the diff until pointed out in this thread.

Sheese

I can answer….The obvious is W has no definitive answer.

I also agree with Cisco… The SG is little more than a spruced up standard rifle in a slightly better suit.

* I as well certainly agree with Cisco. Winchester must have some super lawyers for I cannot comprehend how there would be no benchmark adjoined to the aforesaid issue.

I doubt they have any worries of having to retain legal representation over the issue.

+1


Some factory wood!


Winchester Super Grade

























ya!

GWB

Pretty!
The SG wood looks exactly like my old Ithaca 4E trap gun.

Pretty!
The SG wood looks exactly like my old Ithaca 4E trap gun.
They chose poorly.

Nice, as with most everything you post....But with the exception of the Winchester 70, you are starting out with top of the line examples of what the company offers.

As far as the 70, that should be typical. Or they shouldn't be called Super Grade.

Respectfully,

Actually no. Pehaps with the exception of the Browning Lever Gun, each rifle pictured above is on the lower end in regards to price point of each manufacturer.

ya!

GWB

Well, then a couple of the other ones upstairs are over the top....Ya!!!!

Addition: Blaser's get extra points....no matter the grade. (And the starter Blaser doesn't get to have anyone scratch a couple pigs or such on the receiver.)

It's not really about "correct", but whether it is "correct enough" to leave the factory. That rifle apparently made it past an inspector.

Screen capture from the video posted on the Winchester website. Love it or hate it, it seems to be as Winchester intended.

And What of This From Winchester Repeating Arms? Is this their "intention" as well for the .308 Super Grade French Walnut? * Notice the Distance from 'End to End' > i.e. "Receiver Bridge". "Right from the Winchester Arms 'Website'.

* This picture taken right from the Winchester Website clearly shows or portrays the Super Grade French Walnut receiver bridge ends as being symmetrical (Both Ends). This could be construed as false advertisement and misrepresentation, clearly. Not that I'm interested in moving forward or to proceed further.

Yes. Video link from Winchester website features one like yours. Link here:

Winchester Model 70 Super Grade - YouTube

Do you believe that your stock was shaped by man, or machine?

* I've already 'seen it'. It is the "Super Grade" with different checkering, "NOT" the "Super Grade French Walnut".

Obsession is a hard mistress….

Obsession, No. It's about the truth.

The truth will set you free….

Truth….you will not find it here..Only Winchester knows, and they don’t seem to care.

From what I can see, the new super grade rifles chambered for short action cartridges (.243, 6.5CM, 7-08, .308) all have the shortened ejection port recess in the stock.

Yeah, everyone says BACO is the best built model 70 yet.. Go figure.. Because of this idealism, I find it hard to believe I don't have any in the safe??? Hmmm..

They get great reviews from most all…. Truth!!!!🤣

I’ve had two brand new Classics. A 300 WSM and 7 Rem Mag. Pure parts guns in a box as Bob used to call em.

Neither series is without faults.

+1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1

Which algorithm?

TFF,

To the OP, if you are real.........

I do not sell firearms often on this forum.........



But if you ever see something here that I put up for sale, Please do not buy, as I'm sure we will both be disappointed.

ya!

GWB

au contraire mon frère.....

after 7 pages, I am persuaded that either you are very obtuse or just "trollin', trollin' trollin' (to the tune of Rawhide).

But what the hey? It's entertainment!

TFF

ya!

GWB

geedubya
Campfire 'Bwana
G
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 11,114 POSTS 11, 114

Apparently you have nothing better to do. Just look at all your posts. "That says it all"!

This thread wears me out, but I just keep clicking back on it to see the train wreck unfold.

* Why are you intruding? Are you akin to geedubya with your POSTS: of 10,324! One can always smell a rat.

I'm sure of it now.

Hi Maser.

I’m in the corner of my gun room, curled up in the fetal position, whimpering and begging for mercy after 7 pages of this.

Tee….Remember, no matter the price…truth is worth the cost. Bullshit…. Not so much.

I can understand that you have buyers' remorse due to a lack of discernment......


8 x 57 JS, Classic Mannlicher, 7mm-08 Classic Carbine, 223 Ultralight

in that you could have had A Steyr for less than what you paid for the Winnie!

But why take out your frustration on us' lil' ol' Fire Fuzzballs??

Quien Sabe,

GWB

Synboter?

He missed his meds. There will be a silver alert shortly.

Thank you, you have summed up my feelings about the OP perfectly.

drover

I am not a robot. [ ]

It was obvious from the get go.

I have one of these. My stock has a lot of smattering on both sides. I contacted Winchester, told them about the smatter, they said i doesn't matter.