JB and or Dogzapper- have either of you and or anyone else here chiming in worked with a 06AI?

Seems to me Steve that I once read that you had done some work with one.

Many thx

Dober

Mark, I'm not JB or Dogzapper but I picked up one recently. A Rifles Inc Strata. I'm getting 2926 with 165 Pt's and shooting between 1/2 and 3/4 very consistently. It also loves flat base 150 Hornady Interlocks. It has a 22" barrel with about 1" of that being a VERY noisey brake. It is going back to Lex shortly for a cap.

I haven't shot it enough to tell how long the brass will last with that load but it extracts very easy and doesn't show any other pressure signs.
You ever get over here you are welcome to wring it out.

Mike

Friend Mark,

Yep, I shot a .30-'06 Ackley for deer and elk for quite a while. That was noticed in the industry and I was asked by Nosler to write the lead-in for the '06 Ackley in one of the Nosler Manuals (I've forgotten which one).

The data in Nosler Five and Six is good fired data.

Experimentation showed me that, at least in the three barrels I worked with, the .30-'06 Ackley is best used with relatively heavy bullets. Basically, 150s showed very little advantage, ballistically.

The 165s were easy to get 3,050 to 3,075 fps with acceptable pressure.

I ended up using the 180 Hornady BTSP Interlockeds almost exclusively. My load was 62.0 grains of RL-22 in Winchester cases, using WLR primers. The muzzle velocity in all three 24-inch barrels (two Schneiders and a Pac-Nor) was almost exactly 3,000 fps.

Cases lasted quite well, so I'd have to suppose that the chamber pressure was within bounds.

Any questions ... just ask away.

God Bless,

Steve

PS. I still have a memory picture of one decent 5X5 bull that suddenly showed up at about fifty feet. He was motivated, so I shot him quickly and precisely between the eyes. Both antlers wilted ... Damn, it was funny.

Motivated I like that...

Once upon a time a cow elk popped up at about 5' from me she was motivated as well, to stomp me that is till I stomped her first with a 165 Sierra HPBT to the chops...grin

Wasp, keep me in the loop sounds like a nice find.

I wonder how a 06AI case would fit in a T3 clip?

DZ-thx for the info, I thought you'd written for Nozler about the round. Did you ever try the 190 Horn or 200 Noz?

Thx
Dober

Dogzapper-if I recall right you also spent time with a 338/06 how do you comp the two? I've used the 338/06 quite a bit and love the round.

Thx

Dober

Steve's .30/06 AI intro is in Nosler #4

This thread has set me to thinking again and that is always a dangerous thing.

Steve:

Have one throated for the heavies. What worked the best for you with the 200g?

Appreciate it,
tom

Actually, the 190Interlocked was a pure gem, too.

The 200s just plain kicked too hard. And I tried them.

Actually, one of the coolest kills I ever made was a loooong spike. He suddenly appeared at fifty-yards in the fuggin' THICK FOG. I had a Ruger Number One-S in 45-70 in my hands ... 350-grain Hornady @ 2,200 fps. I centered the shoulder with 3X Leupold and shot.

I went up in recoil and the bull simply frickin' disappeared.

I came down and the bull was GONE.

F**K, did I MISS???

I climbed up there and the bull had taken a snow-nap right sincerely there. Dead as can be.

The Hornady made a .45-caliber hole in ... and a .45-calibdr hole out.

Pre-expanded bullets are sometimes very, very good.

Steve

Mark,
In the late 70s I had Les Bauska in Kalispel rechamber my .30-06 to .30 Gibbs. He didn't have a Gibbs reamer, so he used an Ackley reamer and pushed in to the Gibbs shoulder depth.

I was getting just under 3000 with 180 gr Partitions, and that was my primary elk/moose load for about 25 years. Case life was good, and most days a quarter would cover 3 shots at 100 yds.

One day out at Logan, I chronographed 20 shots at one sitting and they averaged 2996 fps, and all 20 hits were inside 1 1/2".

A mishap fireforming 6 or 7 years ago damaged the chamber. Montana Gunsmiths in Billings tried to fix it, but it wasn't quite right, so I retired it and built my .300 Weatherby.

Thx-that's good info. I can't splain it but this is one round that's always perked my fancy. I kind of think of it as a poor mans 300 WSM...grin

Dober

How about 200's in the good ol' 338-06?

Mark, I think the most useful wildcat on the '06 case would be the 30-280AI. Brass already available...just neck up and fire. The neck is shorter leaving more room for powder but you still have the advantage of the AI shoulder. Makes alot of sense to me and even thought about a 338-280AI at one time. If you have the Wildcat book by Wolf you can read a good article on a 338-270AI. powdr

Mark, here is a link to some previous posts on the Strata.
https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...6155172/Re_30_06_Ackley_Info#Post6155172

Can't help with the comparison, but I have to say Steve's article on the 338-06 still sits on my desk.

I can hear the wheels of that brain of yours turning all the way across town... it's scary man!

Very scary, we may be a 30 cal fam yet...

Dober

Well, the world didn't end yesterday so I suppose anything's possible

Seems like a 300 WSM for people with a standard bolt face and action.

I've always called the 300 WSM the 30-06 Ai +P

Nosler no.5 has 30-06 Ai data and shows 2,985 with a 180 and 62.0 of RL22 (24" bbl.)... however, all the other 180 loads listed with other powders are below 2,900, and it doesn't list any 165 over 2,950 which is kinda strange given the RL22/180 load.

Doesn't JB have some sort of formula to determine speeds of Ai's over their parent case?

Thanks Steve--the 190 Horn had never crossed my mind. Was RL22 the powder also?

Got a big ole pussfied pad on it. Was hunting elk with my CO transplant daughter this past year, holding both the AI round and her 7-08 cartridge next to it in my hand...you've got to wonder...

Dober, it was an old itch here too, but got sidetracked by the sevens AIed...am running a 24" but if I did it again it would definitely be 23.5...:)

I've run that exact powder charge with moly coated 180 gr Sierra SBT's out of my 25" barreled '06AI and it chronographs 2935 fps. Don't know if I could run more powder due to the moly or not. I like my AI but I don't know if I would do it again. I might have gone with the .280AI given my primary use of it on deer and such. I have bigger stuff for elk.

30-06AI is probably quite capable, but the reason I wouldn't do it...the cases are ugly. How's that for a loony reason.

Too funny, I've got a case sitting here and I feel it's muy bueno....

Dober

(spose it'll fit in a clip for a T3? I'll find out this morning)

I must say the 338-06 may be the most perfectly proportioned and shaped cartridge out there. With a 225 Accubond it is a REALLY good lookin' round! But I digress...

FYI I checked some .280AI ammo thru a T3 .30/06 magazine and they worked just fine.

American Rifleman ran an article about the chambering many years ago. Being young and gullible I had an 06 rechambered to the improved version. Some time later I concluded that it was a definite mistake. Little increase in velocity without an increase in pressure, inconvenience, no noticable benefit in accuracy or in killing animals. The only upside I can see is that it provides shooters a chance to experiment and discuss the chambering with other loonies, and, of course, that is not a small benefit.

The 200g AB is a looong bullet...:)

[img:left][/img]

Seems I know someone that has a 30/06AI

Unless some makers have changed their dimensions, all 30/06 AI reamers have been made to incorrect dimensions since the inception. This is due to an error in Ackley's drawing. Not a safety issue, mind you, and you will never have to trim since there is an extra .031" of space for the case to grow! GD

4 me not needing to trim is far and away the most attractive thingy about an AI to me. The xtra bit of gas is just frosting.

Dober

Steve, I'm surprised at the velocities you observed with the 30AI as I spent some time with the 35 Whelen Imp and if it got 50-75 fps more than it's daddy it was because I lied to myself.

'course, I didn't have all the powders we have today either.

And in this way, young reader, the Campfire Cartridge of the year for 2013 is nominated and accepted.....

I completely agree. I hear all this complaining about fireforming and I just don't get it?

I like to shoot [bleep]!

I don't think I would ever build on the '06, 308, and a few other cases and not AI.

Off the rack, I might not bother. But then again......

Does anyone have info on .30-06 AI and .300 SAUM compared for case capacity? Guess I should get some ballistics software for the PC that might tell me these things. I think that Mule Deer wrote about 280 AI and 7 SAUM having about equal case capacity, and performance. I imagine the 30-cals might be nearly the same, too.

However, a .300 SAUM might be hard enough to find that making a .30-06 AI would be easier, supposing we only care how it performs, and not if it is a standard loading.

I worked up loads for a friend's 30-06. Pushing 165 AB's with 63 gr's, compressed, of RL22 produces 3070 fps in his 22" Rem 700.

I was amazed. It would have never worked out that way had it been my gun. Mine would have likely hit 2850 max. That's just the way it goes for me.

I get the same speed from my 300 WSM with 165's. He calls it my 30-06 because he knows I despise the cartridge. But, I surely cannot argue its merit.

Standard 30-06?

I recall a friends 30/06 that produced about the same velocity from a pre 64 M70 FW barrel but with IMR4350...we were mystified by it all until we had the bore slugged and it came in at a bit over .309 through the grooves.

I used another pre 64 with the exact load Reloder mentions (I believe that RL22 load is listed in the Nosler manual)and it barely broke 2800 fps....I had to drop back to RL19 and work to 61 grains to get 2950 or so.

All of this is a duplication of what some guys were doing with N205 a while back in the 30/06 case.Whether an AI provides a boost in vels seems to depend as much on what barrel you end up with as anything else.

I have a .30/06 like that. It safely consumes loads that most people say are too high, yet primers stay round with cases falling out of the chamber. For this reason, I use the chronograph and accuracy levels to determined where I stop.

Yes sir.

loder, that's pretty impressive velocity at 22". Factory issue barrel?

Loder-do you recall the overall length of the round? Also, did you clock that load on more than one day.

Side note, from the Aliant site. 62 of 22 with a 165 Speer, 22" tube = 2725 fps.

Interesting stuff isn't this loading stuff?

Dober

Mark,

I gave up a round in the magazine, but I took a new 06 sporter barrel and punched it 308 Norma Mag.

I can easily load it to 06 Ackley speeds with less fuss.

And, I will, 200's at 2,800.

i shot 200SMK in my 30-06AI and at 258yd broadsids shot at a Wyoming mulie,
it was snow,sleet and freezing rain and upon impact ,blew the deer DRY! then it fell

300WSM = 30-06AI +p is a great description

Yes sir, from 1970's era.

Clocked that load in 2007, 2008 & 2011 at 82, 85 & 91 degrees. Accuracy was 3/8" @ 100 yds.

I just received a phone pic from him yesterday showing two successive shots @ 250 yards side by side on a nice W.T. buck. He is still excited about how well the Accubond puts animals down. He likes the velocity too. It took me 7 or more years to talk him into trying some reloads.

O.A.L. 2.773 measured with Stoney Point Gauge, ogive to base.

Looneyism, ballistic gack, minutia, etc. Should I mention fairy dust, pin heads and mental gymnastics.

That article was a big influence on the building my .338-06!

I had a regular 30-06 and could get 2800 fps with 180 grain on top of reloader 22. Cant recall the charge though.

Barrel length?

A good friend and I played with a 30-06 AI 47 years ago. All we had for powder was WWII Hogden surplus 4831 and some 4350, and we used RWS primers; they were hotter than standard US large rifle primers. We "borrowed" his dad's prized chronograph.

We couldn't get much if any "improvement" with 150gr bullets, 60-80 FPS more with 165s, and almost 150 FPS more with 180gr bullets. All bullets were Speers.

It convinced us back then that the '06AI was a distinct improvement with heavier bullets, only.

I've not tried one with our modern powders.

I took my old, shot out Rem 700 in 30-06 and had it rebarreled with a lightweight Lilja barrel with a 1:11 twist in 30-06AI. I tapped into the knowledge of a gent over on the Accuratereloading.com site. His handle is "Ackley Improved User". IMO, he's very knowledgable about the AI cartridges. He gave me a ton of data to include a few suggestions. I went with Rel 25; quite A-typical but wow. I was getting 3100 fps with Nosler 180 BT/AB's and great case life. I finally settled on a load that ran 3000 fps with 1/2 moa accuracty. Love the fact that case trimming is pretty much negated with the steep shoulder angle.

Alan

I built an 06 IMP on a Colt light rifle a few years ago. 2950 fps was no problem with 180s. I'd take another 06AI over any 300 wsm

Any one had feeding issues with either 30-06AI vs 300 WSM? Four to five down for the AI and only 2 down in the mag for the WSM.

Alan

No feeding issues with the AI I had

I have a 300 RSAUM.
I can pushed 185g Berger LRBTs to 3000 fps.
I use 210g Berger LRBTs at 2800 fps for 1000 yard BR.
Barrel length? 28 inches.

Im running 300 RSAUM brass from Nosler and its excellant.

dave

Mark,

Sorry I didn't weigh in earlier, but was gone for a few days, with little time for the Campfire. Just got back home and want to wish everybody a very merry Christmas!

I haven't tried the .30-06 AI but did fool around with Dr. Ken's version, the .30 Howell, with the shoulder moved forward. It could indeed get considerably more velocity than the standard .30-06, but Ken designed is primarily to produce standard .30-06 velocities with less pressure.

Part of the reason AI'd versions of many older cartridges work so well is the factory pressure of the parent cartridge was relatively low low. The .30-06's standard SAAMI pressure is 60,000 PSI. Give the round another 8-10% in case capacity AND load it up to 65,000 PSI and it does come very close to the .300 WSM--and basically duplicates the .300 SAUM.

And you have another round or two in the magazine. This can be regarded as irrelevant or important, depending on your perspective. Since Phil Shoemaker has killed a number of wounded brown bears with the .30-06 (bears his clients screwed up on) an extra round or two would certainly come in handy now and then. If you don't regularly hunt brown bears it probably wouldn't.

Somebody mentioned the .35 Whelen Ackely Improved, wondering why it doesn't increase performance much over the standard .35 Whelen. I can address this with personal experience, since I once did own a .35 Whelen AI:

The Improved version doesn't change much of anything because there's hardly any shoulder on the .35 Whelen to be blown out. In fact I nominate the .35 Whelen AI as the most useless Ackleyrized cartridge.

A Merry Christmas to you and yours as well John.

I really enjoy your informed posts.

Dave so if you're @ 3K with a 185 out of a 28" tube I'd guess that if one chopped it to a normal length of 24" (or I could say abynormal and go 23"...grin) that the 185 would be right @ 2900 give or take.

Make sense?

Dober

JB-thx for chiming in. I was out hunting ditch pigeons today and got to thinking JB hasn't chimed in yet. He's either out taking care of biziness and or thought I was full of prunes again and was being nice...

I got to thinking that I've a stash of the old Noz 200 grain semi's and what a great "dark timber load for the raking shots" these would be...

Merry Christmas to you and E

Mark D

Mark,

Yep, sure
Really could not say as I never chronoed a 23 inch 300 RSAUM.
Its a 17lb 1000 yard BR rifle.
Chopping 5 inches off my Obermeyer, isn't going to happen.

I like the 300 RSAUM.
ALOT.Figure just a bit more snap than a 30-06 improved.
The Nosler cases im usuing have some of the most consistent necks i've ever measured.That includes brass from Lapua.
One batch of cases have well over 10 reloads and are still ticking .
In my load development I shot the 185g Berger,It shot very well at 500 but I had to keep playing.
My go to load ended up being 60.2g of Ramshot Hunter with he 210 Berger LRBT.Russian Tula mag primers.
I could manage to get to 2900 with Reloader 22 and the 210.
But Hunter, at 100fps slower shot better.

Load development was in say 65 to 80 degree range.
Hunter shot very well and very clean for ball powder.
Colder temps cause me to drop out of my "node" and accuracy falls off.
Last match of the year in Oct temps were 38 in the morning never got above 45.
I got my butt kicked.
In temps over 60...its a threat to win any match im in.
Its a beast.
Had the barrel scoped at 900 rounds.
Throat is still excellant.
Ill get at least one more full season out of it if not more.

Ill make the case for the 300 RSUAM over the 06 improved.
dave

Dave, thanks for the details. I've always liked the 300 SAUM case, though I've never owned one. For a true SA it makes far more sense than the 300 WSM, and I like the SAUM case design slightly better than the WSM case (30* vs 35* shoulder). I've also heard that same problem with Hunter and cold temps. Have you tried H4350 instead?

To the 30-06 Ai, I suppose it makes some sense if a guy has an existing 30-06 and a corresponding itch. However, I find "30-06" and "improved" in the same sentence to verge on blasphemy.

Something that balanced needs no improvement IMHO.

I also wonder whether the extra 5* shoulder on the 30-06 Ai really inhibits case stretch more than the 35* shoulder on the 300 WSM. I guess I'd sooner run the 300 WSM throttled back to 30-06 Ai speeds and get longer brass life. That's just the way I look at it, but I also have no need for anything Ai so that's my bias... though I think the 223 Ai makes the most sense of all of them.

Dave-thx for the info on the 300 RSAUM that's good stuff for those looking to build a long heavy belly gun chambered for that round. But in my world 17lb rigs don't do a thing for me.

That wasn't my intent of this thread but for giggles it'd be fun to twist up a 28" barreled 06AI. Something tells me that it'd pretty well stay with the 300 RSAUM if the barrel lengths were same same.

When I asked about your thoughts about taking 4" off a 28" barrel I wasn't asking you to literally do so. What I was subtly pointing out is that the speeds you mentioned make the RSAUM look faster, but if the barrel length is the same then there won't be much of a gap.

When I started this I was thinking about a lightweight hunting rig, that would shoot well. Have a bit more magazine capacity than a WSM (many handle 2 down, a fair # of 06's will handle 5 down and four for sure and I need all the help I can get).

And in the mean time I could use one of my existing standard bolt faced rigs and do the project for fun and giggles. With very little cost relatively speaking.

I do like the AI's as case stretch is minimal and trimming is fairly nonexistent. Plus I get a bit more gas for the effort. And yet I don't have to hotrod a case. I've had enough of that over the years... .

I have enjoyed the back and forth on this and in particular have enjoyed the comments from those who've worked with the round.

For whatever reason wildcats and AI rounds have long intrigued me. Probably has something to do with the whole odd number thingy...grin

Merry Christmas all!


Dober

i did an 06 Gibbs for a while, 25" barrel and 190 hornady boattail was my go to load,, killed very well and easily sub moa at a little over 2900 fps, i really like the 190 hornady, has always shot as fast as any 180 but seemed like it killed better and shot flatter, shot many hundreds of them in my 300stw's,
i understand the wildcat urge, after the gibbs i went to 376 steyr case on 98 mauser action,, that cased necked to 8mm shooting 200 accubonds proved a great killer, feed extremely well,and a all up rifle at 8lbs with 24" barrel,,, kinda hard on the forehead and bridge of my nose,,,,

Brad.
I know this is supposed to be about 06 stuff.
But the SAUM is very close capacity wise.

I looked long and hard at the 300 WSM case.I to dont care for the shorter neck and 35 degree shoulder.Not saying it wouldn't work for 1000 yard.But even the WSM and the SAUM cases are pretty close.

Lots to like about the 300 RSAUM.
Short action with room left over.
Shoulder and neck are, in my mind perfect.Either long range target or as a hunting round.

Im a long time 6mm PPC shooter.
The 300 RSAUM is just an over grown PPC.

I never got around to 4350 powder.
The Ramshot Hunter shot so well I just couldnt give it up.
Im thinking if I just adjusted my load of Hunter.The cooler temps would not be a problem.

Thinking I trimmed my SAUM cases after like 8 fireings.Didnt really need to.I just did.

I know alot of people poo poo the Nosler brass.
I just cant find anything wrong with it.
Ill put it this way.
We are skim turning Lapua 6.5x47 brass for 1000 yard.
Im running 300 RSAUM Nosler brass right out of the box.
Its that good.



dave

300STW-a fellow shooting buddy and I did 30 Gibbs many moons ago. I used the 190 Horn a bit and he used the 200 Noz if I recall right. 4 me, I enjoy this kind of gackola. But then again I get bored easily...grin

Hope alls well in your world today.

Dober

Dober
Understood.
All im saying is thats its a very nice round to work with thats in your ball park.
Dont have to be 17lb. Not at all.
A SA M700 with mag bolt face on a 23 tube could be as light as you care to make it.
Out of the box ammo for the thing will scare you accuracy wise.
No fire forming.

I get the Ackley thing.
Done a few myself.


dave

Dave-any chance you clocked the speeds when going from the 65-80 to the 38-45 to see what you actually lost for gas?

Also, would 7828 work in that lil fat case? I've used it with 200's in the WSM and I recall it did fairly well.

Dober

Dober.
Nope.
We knew we were down in FPS as we had to add clicks all the way out.
It sure was enough to drop me out of my sweet spot.

Im thinking 7828 would be a tad to slow in the SAUM case.
Although rel 22 in mine woke the thing up big time.
In the WSM case might just be the ticket.
I have more to think about than just raw speed for the game im in.


dave

Hay,

in case I forgot.

Merry merry dude...

Hope all is well with you and yours...



dave

Dave-I'm cheap by nature so if possible I'll use one of my existing old friends to work with a round. Plus I like using the same rifle year after year as it adds to my intimacy with the rig and trust me on this I need all the help I can get when it comes to the accuracy game...<g>

But, if I wanted to work with a RSAUM then the 700 wouldn't scare me a bit. I have been around enough 7's and 700's that were chambered in WSM that I know I'd not do one around a Rem bolt gun. That said, I've also seen more WSM rifles of differing makes that didn't feed in a manner which I approve of than all the other rounds put together.

Rancho Loco's RSAUM is a dream to run and shoot and it's about model perfecto for a hunt rig for me. Plus one can get a Jewell to stick in it and or the 70's and for me the triggers a big deal.

This gack is all fun and games. Bottom line, I love to hunt, and I love to shoot. For me it's just a way of life.

Dober

Side note to the RSAUM thingy, if I was going that way it'd not be 30 cal it'd be either 7 and or if starting from scratch the 6.5. That catz gonna gain some serious traction among shooting loony's in the very near future!

Dober

Id be hunting as much as as you if I lived where you did.
I make up for it by shooting Impossibly Small targets at incredibly stupid distances.

The trick to making the M700 a bomb proof fatty feeder is single up.
No matter what hardwear you use.
Single up works everytime.

Sounds like you need to talk to the MontanaMarine dude.
Not sure if he does the AI thing but for 06 stuff.
Hes the man.


dave

Shane does have some mad skills for sure, one of these days I'm gonna get his way and have him try to give me some help. But alas I'm probably more than a skosh bit helpless...grin

I was gonna ask if you were running a solo feeder. For me a solo is all about a #1 not a bolt gun. But, that's just my world.

We're kind of the same as I shoot incredibly large targets at incredibly close ranges...

Dober

When I did my 300 SAUM the 180g Berger 7mm Hybrid was still on the drawing board.
I'd will be looking at it again come rebarrle time.

The 6.5 SAUM is good on paper.
Gunsmith built one.

After looking at his loads and data.

I would not.

Pressure spikes,peekie weirdness.
And your 06 AI would out shoot it.

If I were to look at something like that.

I do a 6mm WSSM with 105g Berger hybrids.



dave

Yea ,i've seen how helpless you are..


dave

I do not know about blasphemy, but it sure makes me scratch my head.

With all the various 30 caliber cartridges available, it just seems so much easier to pick a cartridge in the power level/platform you desire than to take the 30-06 and try to improve it.

One of the main reasons an individual chooses a 30-06 is for simple common sense functionality.
There are much more complicated cartridges to choose, if a challenge is what you desire.

Mark,

While we are discussing the 190 Hornady, it was my absolute favorite bullet in the '06.

From my notes circa 1995, I pushed it to 2800 with IMR and H 4831 in a 22 inch standard '06. It gave me great accuracy from a bone stock Win 670.

I also played with the AI '06 for a couple years in the early nineties. I did not have a Chrony yet so I could judge velocity only from observed trajectory numbers. And the rifle (an old H&R 308 barrel screwed onto a Venezuelan tanker carbine Mauser built for 7x57 with the mag box lengthened a 1/4 inch) was so inaccurate that trajectories were unmeasurable.

I came to the same conclusions as already shared by our more knowledgeable compatriots: the '06AI is a waste of time with bullets lighter that 180 gr.

But I think it would really shine with that Hornady 190 or any 200 gr spitzer boat tail.

I would have the mag box built to 300 Wea length and and the chamber reamed so that I could seat the bullet as long as good handloading practices would allow.

IS-Ingwe from here has used the 190 Horn more than a bit. I think mainly from his 300 H&H and has liked how they do their stuff. I'd think it'd be a good match of softness, excellent BC and weight retention on big game.

I'd think that the 200 Sierra could do well in it as well.

Thx 4 sharing your thoughts.

Dober

Taking inventory of the comments on this thread I've some good and pertinent info. What I noticed is that those who've built and used a 06AI have positive comments and seemed pleased with what their experience with the round.

As well, not all but most seemed inclined to use the heavier bullet weights. Which for me is fine as that's the way I tend to lean as well.

The negatives that came up didn't come from those who've actually worked with and have experience with the round.

By my way of thinking it'd be awfully close to and 06 Plus P (WSM) but would more than likely feed better and more importantly allow me more belly cap. And if I feel like I can always run plain Jane 06 ammo in the bugger right?

Could be fun to do sometime. Maybe I will and maybe not. Only time will tell. Now if someone has a set of dies they're no longer using... .


2014 will be a fun year whether we do projects like these and or not.

Dober

Dober, there were no negatives, just opinions and observations of the good natured variety IMO.

Merry Christmas.

Mark,

For conversation, I've had two 300 SAUM's, both factory 24" tubes.

The first, I only worked with 165 SGK's. Played with H-4350, H-4831, H-414, and R-19. Best velocity was with the 19 at 3065. Accuracy was with 4350 at 2975.

Second one was strictly with the 180 Accubond, same powders, minus the 19. 3 grand was doable with all, but the accuracy was at 2900 with the 4350.

I built a 338-06 Ackley a while back....that serves my Ackley fix in a mid caliber on the 06 case.
I felt a 200/210 338 at 2800 had more mojo than a 30/180 at the same speeds.....

+1

dave

No negative's from me, it's just that someone has to play the devil's advocate.

My 338-06's serve me very well pushing the 200-210gr bullets from 2700-2800 fps.

I did finally purchase an 06, but have no plans of AI'ing it.

Dr Wayne Van Zwoll is a long time gun and Elk hunting writer with a fondness for the .30/06 Ackley Improved cartridge. Google his name and you'll see what you can find out. I'd bet if there is a Bugle magazine article index you'll hit pay dirt.

What does a gunsmith do to turn a '06 into an AI? Do they just machine the receiver?

Yep, Just machine the reciever and mark the barrel "IMP" thats all there is to it!!! LOL!!!!!!










Its best to set the barrel back a quarter to half turn and rechamber it

Dober, a Quickload run out of the 30-06 with 180's shows pretty good potential with both RL22 and 7828, but 110% fill is reached before 55K and 59K. I was seriously thinking just about a month ago that a 30-06 AI with some roomie brass and either 7828 SSC or RL22 would be a fun gun. My m70 might be in for a facelift someday.

Anyone loaded up some of the new Accubond LR 210's yet and given them a whirl?

2750 fps (maybe 2800 fps) and .730 BC sound mighty useful in a .30-06 AI. Anyone used Ramshot Magnum in this chambering?

I've got some 210's on the way, but no .30-06 AI. Kinda think, though, that Magnum might work even in the standard .30-06.

I most definitely want to hear about this once you get a few down range. As long as the 210's are... I really hope they stay stable @ 500+ yds. with .30-06 velocities.

The 30/06 AI has always kinda' intrigued me for some odd reason... think it'd be a sweet one to do on a 8ish lb rifle...

Alectoris,

I'll report on 'em here when I can.

Like a lot of people, you have the common misconception that bullet de-stabilize when they slow down. That's only true when they drop to transonic velocities, down around 1300 fps or lower. At velocities higher than that, they actually become more stable as long as they were stabilized to start with.

I've run 180's in my '06 Super Improved (Gibbs) to 3,050 in a 25.5" tube. Primer pockets give out fast even at 3k fps. 2,950 is tops for me now.

So if the bullet is rotationally stable when exiting the muzzle it will continue to be so unless some outside force messes with it? Good to know. I was operating under the assumption that rotational velocity would eventually slow to the point the bullet would lose stability and begin to tumble. I learned something new today!

The transonic velocities you mentioned would be the bullet passing from faster than sound speeds to slower than sound speeds? I remember reading something about 22lr ammo destabilizing when doing this due to turbulence that occurs at this threshold. Is this the same phenomenon?

I still have a early '70s Speer reloading manual that I find useful from time to time, especially with old powder and not so common products.

The writer who did the lead on the .30-06 AI, finished his article with words similar to this. He says the AI works well with heavier bullets combined with slower powders. He said that those who used light bullets and faster powders, simply did know what they were about.

From reading this thread, it seems like most users still agree. Personally, when Hornaday introduced the Light Magnum, reportedly at 2880/180 and the later Superformance at 2900/180, both from 22" barrels, my itch was satisfied. The Chrony I used for verification with my 24" barrel, did just a bit better than advertised and is plenty accurate for hunting.

I am also a fan of the .338/06. They work as advertised, all the way back to the OKH version. I do not have one now, but 200 grain C&C bullets and 210NP worked great. Since I did not go north to hunt, the 250NP and Woodleighs were just too much bullet for deer, hog, and coyote. Jack

Why not just get an H&H? Way more cool factor

As I recall reading, Rocky Gibbs discovered the same problem, and did consideralble experimentation trying to find cases that would stand the pressures he wanted to run. He finally settled on WWII military DEN43 cases.
--Bob

Not the accubond 210s but have been lobbing 208s for a few years along with some custom 180s. If you throat it long enough you can get enough VV N560 in the case to pressure up. With a 26 inch barrel you can reach 2850 but that is about tops as far as running safe pressures.....I run mine a little harder than that though
I get about five firings from lapua brass so it is not really way over pressure but I would assume in the 65K psi range. I used pressure trace on it once but do not recall the results.

If I read this correctly you shoot a .30-06 AI, throated long, using N560 to get 2800+ FPS with 208g A-Max bullets. If I may ask - what action are you using and what is the internal length of the mag box?

Also, what COAL are you loading at?

It is on a Nesika with old style HS DBM. I would have to go measure a round to tell you COAL. I am pretty sure we went another .200 with a piloted throating reamer. I would guess 3.5ish. I think I was running 65 or 66 grs.

Why not get a 30-338 or a 300 Win? Same bullet more engine! AND THE RIFLE WILL BE LIGHTER. Less steel in bbl and one less cartridge in the magazine.

Who says we can only have one .30 cal? If you already have a .473 boltface action the 06AI is a reasonable facsimile of a 300WM and no belt.

I like more than 1500 rounds down a tube before its completely shot out. 75+ grains of powder in a .30 caliber tube is inefficient and since I don't need or want 1k yard range capability it is utterly pointless in my case. That being said.... .308 Norma Magnum - the Swedes got it right before anyone else.