Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters 30/06 Ai thoughts?

Mark,

For conversation, I've had two 300 SAUM's, both factory 24" tubes.

The first, I only worked with 165 SGK's. Played with H-4350, H-4831, H-414, and R-19. Best velocity was with the 19 at 3065. Accuracy was with 4350 at 2975.

Second one was strictly with the 180 Accubond, same powders, minus the 19. 3 grand was doable with all, but the accuracy was at 2900 with the 4350.

I built a 338-06 Ackley a while back....that serves my Ackley fix in a mid caliber on the 06 case.
I felt a 200/210 338 at 2800 had more mojo than a 30/180 at the same speeds.....

+1

dave

No negative's from me, it's just that someone has to play the devil's advocate.

My 338-06's serve me very well pushing the 200-210gr bullets from 2700-2800 fps.

I did finally purchase an 06, but have no plans of AI'ing it.

Dr Wayne Van Zwoll is a long time gun and Elk hunting writer with a fondness for the .30/06 Ackley Improved cartridge. Google his name and you'll see what you can find out. I'd bet if there is a Bugle magazine article index you'll hit pay dirt.

What does a gunsmith do to turn a '06 into an AI? Do they just machine the receiver?

Yep, Just machine the reciever and mark the barrel "IMP" thats all there is to it!!! LOL!!!!!!










Its best to set the barrel back a quarter to half turn and rechamber it

Dober, a Quickload run out of the 30-06 with 180's shows pretty good potential with both RL22 and 7828, but 110% fill is reached before 55K and 59K. I was seriously thinking just about a month ago that a 30-06 AI with some roomie brass and either 7828 SSC or RL22 would be a fun gun. My m70 might be in for a facelift someday.

Anyone loaded up some of the new Accubond LR 210's yet and given them a whirl?

2750 fps (maybe 2800 fps) and .730 BC sound mighty useful in a .30-06 AI. Anyone used Ramshot Magnum in this chambering?

I've got some 210's on the way, but no .30-06 AI. Kinda think, though, that Magnum might work even in the standard .30-06.

I most definitely want to hear about this once you get a few down range. As long as the 210's are... I really hope they stay stable @ 500+ yds. with .30-06 velocities.

The 30/06 AI has always kinda' intrigued me for some odd reason... think it'd be a sweet one to do on a 8ish lb rifle...

Alectoris,

I'll report on 'em here when I can.

Like a lot of people, you have the common misconception that bullet de-stabilize when they slow down. That's only true when they drop to transonic velocities, down around 1300 fps or lower. At velocities higher than that, they actually become more stable as long as they were stabilized to start with.

I've run 180's in my '06 Super Improved (Gibbs) to 3,050 in a 25.5" tube. Primer pockets give out fast even at 3k fps. 2,950 is tops for me now.

So if the bullet is rotationally stable when exiting the muzzle it will continue to be so unless some outside force messes with it? Good to know. I was operating under the assumption that rotational velocity would eventually slow to the point the bullet would lose stability and begin to tumble. I learned something new today!

The transonic velocities you mentioned would be the bullet passing from faster than sound speeds to slower than sound speeds? I remember reading something about 22lr ammo destabilizing when doing this due to turbulence that occurs at this threshold. Is this the same phenomenon?

I still have a early '70s Speer reloading manual that I find useful from time to time, especially with old powder and not so common products.

The writer who did the lead on the .30-06 AI, finished his article with words similar to this. He says the AI works well with heavier bullets combined with slower powders. He said that those who used light bullets and faster powders, simply did know what they were about.

From reading this thread, it seems like most users still agree. Personally, when Hornaday introduced the Light Magnum, reportedly at 2880/180 and the later Superformance at 2900/180, both from 22" barrels, my itch was satisfied. The Chrony I used for verification with my 24" barrel, did just a bit better than advertised and is plenty accurate for hunting.

I am also a fan of the .338/06. They work as advertised, all the way back to the OKH version. I do not have one now, but 200 grain C&C bullets and 210NP worked great. Since I did not go north to hunt, the 250NP and Woodleighs were just too much bullet for deer, hog, and coyote. Jack

Why not just get an H&H? Way more cool factor

As I recall reading, Rocky Gibbs discovered the same problem, and did consideralble experimentation trying to find cases that would stand the pressures he wanted to run. He finally settled on WWII military DEN43 cases.
--Bob

Not the accubond 210s but have been lobbing 208s for a few years along with some custom 180s. If you throat it long enough you can get enough VV N560 in the case to pressure up. With a 26 inch barrel you can reach 2850 but that is about tops as far as running safe pressures.....I run mine a little harder than that though
I get about five firings from lapua brass so it is not really way over pressure but I would assume in the 65K psi range. I used pressure trace on it once but do not recall the results.

If I read this correctly you shoot a .30-06 AI, throated long, using N560 to get 2800+ FPS with 208g A-Max bullets. If I may ask - what action are you using and what is the internal length of the mag box?

Also, what COAL are you loading at?

It is on a Nesika with old style HS DBM. I would have to go measure a round to tell you COAL. I am pretty sure we went another .200 with a piloted throating reamer. I would guess 3.5ish. I think I was running 65 or 66 grs.