Let the junk begin. I can't see any real advantage to them. Maybe with mittens on but more clearance would be better for me.

They are a mixed blessing. I don't use them on my hunting rifles as they are bigger and take away from the trimness and portability of a rifle. But with gloves on, I can fumble a regular bolt handle. I have though of putting one on my coyote rifle...usually working in cold weather with that one.

They are the ugliest things I've ever seen on a "hunting" rifle! Gimmie a 700 or 70 bolt any day. And those extended box magazines....look like one of my old M-14 mags....dear Lord...

Because they work better; more leverage, easier to grab, etc....Like detachable mags, they just work better.

They are over-compensation for undersized things.

That's tacti-cool in general.

Gives the rifle gayzers something to talk about

Theyre butt fuggin ugly, just like the rest of a "tacticool" rig is. I never played with GI Joe and am not a wannabe sniper. An off -the-shelf Model 70 classic is what a hunting rifle should look like. Stainless and synthetic is acceptable, but pretentious crap is not cool.

Anytime I wonder what the term "Fudd" truly means, all I have to do is visit this place. Pure entertainment.

They're a lot easier to use from prone, while keeping your head down on the stock, looking through the scope, and maintaining your shooting position.

What the fudd does it mean?

If you call out “something em em” like 7 em em or 5.56 em em. That’s a good clue. If you spend much time gayzing at other guys rifles, wondering about their dick size, that’s a a good clue. Marlboro, beer belly, smug self superior attitude... might be a fudd. Model 98, pre-64 win etc = pinnacle of rifle design... may as well. go get fitted for your stormy Cromer and red and black checkered Woolworth coat.


If your habit is to work the bolt upon firing the rifle - you will soon understand why a bigger handle is superior. If your habit is to NOT work the bolt upon firing the rifle, then you will never know what the bigger handle is for and will only notice that it makes the rifle fit differently in a case. That’s the black and white for the OP- but it sounded like he wasn’t actually asking

Fudd?

I have not one clue who you are, but you are alright in my my book. I 110% agree with your well thought our and intelligent views.

Not a Fudd...that was modern equipment for that time. Those who think that is all that is ever needed, and anything newer is silly, stupid, wasteful, or pretentious, however, do fit the description. Basically, those who get upset because someone likes something they dont.

I actually prefer the term "curmudgeon" to "Fudd," but the meaning is largely the same.

This. Functionally beautiful.

Look what the photographer seems to have scribbled. It's a control number, and it's probably backwards, but dang if it doesn't look like "E. FUDD" I think we found a portrait of Elmer himself!

Some guys just have a problem finding their knob, especially when they can't see it.

I have seen your Stormy Kromer... just sayin'.

Woolrich, it’s a Pennsylvania thing.

They sure make it harder to get 8 guns into a 16 gun safe.

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Fudd

Fudd
Slang term for a "casual" gun owner; eg; a person who typically only owns guns for hunting or shotgun sports and does not truly believe in the true premise of the second amendment. These people also generally treat owners/users of so called "non sporting" firearms like handguns or semiautomatic rifles with unwarranted scorn or contempt.

"See sonny, all those pistols in that cabinet... all thems is good for is killin people." -Example of ignorant comment from a fudd at a local gun shop. See also: Zumbo.
#fudd#zumbo#john rosenthal#mitt romney#john kerry
by drgrant April 10, 2007


I see, as in Elmer J. Fudd.

Hahaha. It’s different when it’s a fishin hat. Either way it’s My sole concession to fuddyduddyism

You’ve got to remove the bolts to strip out the firing pins anyways. Just store the bolts separately. Then they’re handy when it comes times to put everything back together. The hard part is rembering the secret hiding places for each firing pin.

What does the J stand for in Elmer J. Fudd? I have two Stormy Cromers and a Woolrich or two. Guess I am a double Fudd.

I was looking to down size my knob and all I can find after market are the four on the floor Hurst shifter styles. Looks like I will have to have one milled down.

People with small a small penis want something big in their life.

PTG makes a couple of very low profile teardrop knobs.

Yes they didn't give the dimensions but looks smaller than the round knob. Looks good too. If rifles were supposed to have gear shifter knobs Paul Mauser would have put them on his rifles. Granted faster from prone positions but I don't shoot prone much.

Probably could swap a "w" for the "l" in that last word.

Get the little lady some hot Dicken's Cider.

That’s why I always drop my old lady off with Lucious and Tyrone on my way out of town. Figure she will just end up over there any way. At least my rifle gives the guys something to gayz at.

I like the big handles....easy to grab

this is a Glade on my Ruger American 300 BLK

They are easier to use from prone. The handles are easier to find and grab when wearing bulky winter gloves. They are easier to manipulate when you are chilled.

They are an option. Some people will not have a need.

Interesting thought process behind the ugliest one on the planet.

As far as looks go, they do give butter knife handles a run for their money.

I have several from Glades Armory. In the above video, he's talking about ergonomics. Does the bolt become part of your hand? Is the bolt handle/rifle made easier to operate with a different shaped handle?

For the overwhelming majority of shooters, the answer is yes.

Not everyone's hands are the same size. Guys with big mitts will tell you the stories of teeny little blt handles and how much of a pain in the butt they are.
Guys who hunt in colder climates (like me) will tell you that when I'm wearing gloves, a bigger handle is so much easier to operate, both the backwards and forwards action.
It's easier to find and retain in low light, or when you need to cycle it quickly.

The decision to use one is an individual choice. They aren't putting these on mass made factory rifles, so don't worry about it. It's another option, like those people who insist on using scopes.

Man, I see couples so obese there AIN'T no way they can meet facing each other.

Jerry

J-lock something so stupid only that cartoon fugger could have invented and remington put it into production.

About half the internet sofa-snipers who post pics with their bad bolt knobs and even eviler tripod served bolt guns still sport their old J-lock...

For a range shooter, wannabe SWAT or Marine sniper they are indeed just the ticket.

For the rest of us, not much....

I've done my share of range shooting from prone with bolt actions, including competitions with double snap and rapid serials. My hands aren't small either - I need a size 2XL in gloves. But yet never once have I thought "I really could use a bigger knob"

Have you ever tried working a larger bolt handle dan_oz?

For the rest of you, have you tried using one yourself? Most of you haven't. I suggest that rather than bad mouthing them, try one first. Report back after you have. Your opinion of them will change.

Doubtful it will change anything.....Many here are much more concerned on how their gear looks then works.

I've got a couple 700's with the factory knob, and a couple with the Badger Ord knob. I like the bigger knob myself. Easier in gloves, and the added length creates better scope clearance.





Use whatever you like, I can't imagine anyone being bothered about it.

In the past 6 months I have made ~ 60 bolt handles, mostly using the 1" diameter 1.6" long Aluminum Glade bolt handle as a model.


http://gladesarmory.com/tactical-bolt-knobs/83/tactical-bolt-knob-2-black-knurled.html

That handle is solid Aluminum alloy with anodized finish and female 5/16-24 threads in the Alloy.
It is heavy, dark, high in thermal conductivity, and high is specific heat.
I have copied the [ 1/3 at 15 degrees, 1/3 at 10 degrees, 1/3 at 5 degrees ] shape.
I have used different woods:
Apple
Cherry
Mahogany
Ironwood
Desert Ironwood
African Blackwood
Lignum Vitae
Oak
Maple
Douglas Fir
Rhododendron
others

I have made 5/16-24 inserts with Aluminum and free machining steel.
I have bought inserts made of steel



Here is a model 12 Savage rifle in 250 Savage I built and took hunting in October with a bolt handle I made from African blackwood.

I am using the metal lathe and Bridgeport mill.
I have been watching woodturners on Youtube.
Bolt handles are an easy project for this beginner.

Steve,

I learned the value of a fast follow up shot when jump shooting elk in the timber decades ago. Long before Al Gore invented tactical bolt handles, I practiced familiarizing my self with my rifles and think I'm pretty quick at cycling the action (although I must admit I've never entered any bolt cycling competitions). The less stuff sticking out of a hunting rifle--fore, aft, starboard or port-- the better for me.

Clark,

That's pretty cool you make those yourself. Manufactured from wood is a cool idea. Looks nice too.

That may be how you feel, but I will repeat: try it before you put them down. I tried one and it solved my problem hunting in the winter when I wear gloves.

You can sure tell the mid winter blues have set in around here.

Thanks.

I am a form follows function nerd task oriented engineer.

But aesthetically minded people admire my bolt handles.... so I keep making them.

Those are people who could care less about me cutting threads on a lathe or milling a V block.

Actually I have. Many years ago I tried one of the first of them, a Tikka LSA 55 with the oversized black ball for a bolt knob which came out on some versions of that rifle back in the 70s. This was a heavy-barreled target/varmint type. I had a bit of a play with it, including a few rounds downrange rapid, and while it was a nice rifle, and very accurate, I didn't like that particular bolt knob at all - I thought it detracted from what was otherwise a good rifle. I've handled the odd one since too.

As I've said, I have never seen any need for a larger bolt knob. That doesn't mean I've never tried them.

I reckon everyone is different....as I have a hard time fathoming why anyone would not have a longer, oversized knob on a working rifle.

It might be a question of technique. I grasp the bolt knob in a "ball and socket" grip, my forefinger crooked under the bolt knob, my thumb on top. An oversized or odd shaped knob doesn't fit this space comfortably. I want to be able to open and close the bolt in two smooth movements, not four, and from prone this should all be without my elbow leaving the ground nor the buttplate moving on my shoulder.A longer bolt handle means my hand has further to travel to open and close it.

Your mileage, and personal preferences, may vary.

I suppose that method would make it difficult. I run the bolt with top of my index finger and palm...not really sure where the four motions come into play.

I think most factory bolt handles are too short. I like them longer but don’t like the big diameter knobs like the tactical ones everybody’s going for today, I like a small round knob or teardrop. I don’t manipulate the bolt with my index finger like the guy in the mausingfield video, I underhand it and pull it back with my pinkie. I guess it just depends upon how you work the bolt as to which one works better for you.

You are one of the few. There's a lot of superfluous mudslinging about these bolt handles.

It's alright to say, I've never tried one, and likely won't. They don't interest me. And leave it at that.

They are an option. Like collet dies, rifle slings or camo underwear.

Steve, don’t sweat it. Most of these same guys will shell out $$$ for the right paint job etc. but that stuff doesn’t make the gun fit in the case funny or take up too much room in the safe. So they see it as a more functional upgrade.... to each there own. I’m always glad I don’t have to carry other people’s stuff.

It's hard to take the Internets seriously.

I dated a woman 15 years ago who had an aunt and uncle just a few years older. This pair was quite rotund. During a family Christmas celebration in which we got quite soused, I asked them how they accomplished certain romantic feats. It apparently required quite a bit of groping and roll-shifting, but less flour than I'd suspected.

I didn't know Fudd was a deer hunter, always thought he was after the rascal wabbit.

Oh the horror........

What are the o-rings for? Decoration?

You can bag on bolt handles, collet dies, and slings all you want but don't start in on my camo underwear, that's where I draw the line.

They keep you well hidden when you're having a dump...unless you have a good sense of smell.



I have the same handle. I'm not sure what they are for. I removed them. They come off easily anyway. I doubt they would last that long if kept.

That’s a safety thing though. Same with camo toilet paper. That flash of white has been the cause of fatal shootings and shootings in which both parties wish it had been fatal for generations.


Needless to say, the bitchers will do so, ad infinidum- even if you capitulate to there demands and make the move to solid color drawers- it’ll just be back to bolt knobs, scopes that don’t have 4” eye relied etc etc.

One thing nice about that big handle is that after I yank on it real good a half dozen or so times I start to have confidence that my Remington bolt handle won’t snap off on some brush while I’m hiking.

Wrong again, my sh** don't stink. After all, isn't that the theme of this thread?

I'm not sure of the theme of this thread, but thanks for stopping by.

I'm not sure either. And I will admit that my sh** does stink. But not my farts.

I was thinking about getting one for me Ruger No. 1.

Some of you have some impressive knobs.

That made me chuckle and dry heave. It's interesting how a thread about bolt knobs can morph into an anecdote like that.

Well it's H n S's fault. He started it.

Jerry

Really ?


Jerry

Everyone IS different. Every guy who shoots and/or hunts has his own unique approach to the whole business.

I was shooting by the time I was seven years old and have been at it for 55 years. I was far beyond the impressionable age when Desert Storm took place and all the kids decided they wanted to be snipers and thought anything that looked "tactical" was the coolest. If a guy wants a bolt knob the size of an orange juice can, that's his choice---and it may be perfect for the way he employs his rifle...but to tell me that my traditional rifle is just no longer a viable tool is a nonstarter. None of my hunting failures could ever be blamed on my equipment, save one scope failure.

For most hunting, I like something that is easy to carry. I carry a rifle a hell of a lot more than I shoot it. Bigass bolt knobs, target turrets, bipods, and 40-ounce scopes just aren't my thing. Svelte and with no unnecessary projections works for me. That is MY approach. Everyone else is welcome to their own.

Bigass bolt knobs being fugly is my opinion, and here again, everyone else is welcome to their own. Purely subjective, no wrong answers.

Hahaha. Each to there own, the really important thing is that we understand that yours is an informed decision that make sense and ours is inspired by GI joe fantasies....
I like that post, it helps to clarify and restablish your position. ThNk you for taking the time.

There ya go !

Jerry

I take responsibility for the locker room talk here. Now, get out there and grab 'em by the knob!

HuntNShoot -

I was not sure IF it was You or I who took the left turn but no matter.


Now fellows to the Point of Bolt Handles.

As a disengaged bystander. I've seen some Good Looking Bolt Handles here. If you like yours great NO matter what anyone else thinks.

From my perspective:

1. I've never had the op to shoot at game from PRONE so....

2. That stated, I've never had a problem finding, grasping, operating any B A bolt. Only a couple stand out as not user friendly to ME. I no longer have them.

3. A couple I like pictured here would be too large for scope clearance w/o elevating the scope. Maybe that's one function of rails. Don't know and I'm not interested in finding out.

Jerry

let us know the mfg P/N when you get it

proly akin to the Contender helper lever I'm guessing............

I can see adding them to a Remington 700. I've always thought the bolt handle on them were a bit too small. I like a M70 or Ruger M77 bolt handle best, they seem to fit me best.

I put a large knob on a Savage 12 varmint rifle, it seemed to work a bit better that way, when you're shooting at prairie dogs and working a bolt a lot.

There are also oversized knobs on the two Ruger American rimfire rifles I have, a Predator and a SS .22 Magnum. They work just fine, and aren't oversized enough to matter much. They seem to be handier on these little guns, which get shot a helluva lot.

But I can't see needing one on a deer rifle. One shot oughta be all you need.

I don't have any on my hunting rifles but watch a PRS match and you'll know what they're for.

That's exactly how I do it.

If I can quickly cycle the bolt without using a longer, heavier bolt knob, I'm gaining without adding something.

Of course not you dummy, camo underwear hides the smell...

Most of 'em look like WWII grenades, I suppose you could take 'em off and heave them at charging deer. If the deer have mortars, though, the grenade is useless.

Guess I'll add a little more since I did a smartass one-liner near the top. I was taught to use my palm to work a bolt, not to grasp it, and standard handles work fine for me. Can't see any advantage in bigger. But I don't shoot matches and I can't remember the last time I shot prone. Favored field position is sit on a box and use shooting sticks. Keeps one out of the mud and snow and I can see more.

So if it improves functionality or you otherwise like it, fine.

To me, they go on hunting rifles, AFTER you've already mounted the flash suppressor.

Don't forget the Bubba buddy cartridge thing and see through mounts. Or it is not cool.

I can see the merit in having a knob big enough to throw at and stop a charging grizzly. But if my knob was that big I could just seduce the Bear.

I wouldn't sweat it.

The old military instruction was to roll the bolt handle in the palm of your hand. That was done to develop the skill of controlled, rapid fire. Rapid being a relative term. In the picture below, you can see the difference between a stock Savage bolt handle and a larger one. The stock handle, tucked into the stock when the action is closed was difficult for me to grab with gloves or shooting mitts on. The larger handle is easier to manipulate.



The mid winter blahs have set in, with some people making fun of the larger bolt handles. I wonder if their parents know that they are on the computer after bedtime?

There are many things offered for sale in the marketplace. Not everything will be useful to everyone, but choices are what makes the world go round. It is also part of free enterprise. Sometimes, if a person gets out from behind their monitor and actually leaves the house, they will find there's a big, interesting world out there. As a bonus, they might actually learn something.

I believe this is sorely needed here...

It's pretty, but is it functional? Or perhaps someone might buy it as a wall hanger. It is expensive, and qualifies as a piece of art.

Liberace would have loved that bedazzled looking thing. I'll take an easy pass on that one.

I would hate to mar it in any way. I'd be worried that I'd mess up the wood or scratch the metal finish. Think of the cost to restore a simple nick in the wood! If you are well off, I suppose that might not be a concern.

I'd pass on it as a hunting piece as well, but only because of the fear factor. But as a work of art, it would be nice on my wall.

Classy as always Jorge.

Thanks Jorge. About time someone highlighted the absolute tasteless and useless crap that people sink money into on a rifle. To make it look like what a pimp cane ? To make it work how?

Please.

Polished turd regArds.

I'm sensing that this oversize bolt knob issue is becoming divisive. Anybody hire some underage Russian prostitutes to pee on their rifle lately?

Gross.

Why on Earth would someone ruin such a nice action with ugly metal tattoos?

You know what they say, Beauty is in the eye....... Jorge, that's GORGEOUS.

Jerry

Beautiful wood but I never understood the attraction to the high-gloss finish.

Looks like a Roy Weatherby wet dream. Pass.

Those have to be the fanciest rings I've ever seen........

I think there was mention of large knobs in the Russian Dossier.

We will have to consult with Comey and Clinton to know for sure........

It will resist rust a LOT more than our tactical flat, matte, parkerized look.

The whole thing about glare and sneaking up on a critter is over rated.......

Although that rifle is a little shiny for my tastes.

I was talking about the gloss on the wood actually. I like a more natural look, whether it's a gun stock, paneling, or whatever.

But especially on a gun stock.

As far as metal, what about cerakote or something similar for rust prevention?

I was merely referring to the BOLT design and not necessarily what is obviously an investment grade rifle. Perhaps this will help but I doubt it..

Oh. Actually I agree with you about the wood.

Anything that is matte has a rougher texture and allows rust to form easier. It also allows more dirt to collect in the microscopic crevices which in turn hold moisture. Everything else being the same the glossier the finish the more resistant it is to rust and impact.

The best example is gloss vs matte scopes. Gloss scopes are easier to wipe off and keep clean, and don't mar as easy as matte scopes.

I use epoxy paints in industrial applications. High gloss paint has a higher impact resistance and higher corrosion resistance rating than identical epoxy in a lower sheen.

One thing for sure, people will stop and look at the custom rifle before they walk over look at the more pedestrian one.......

Well, I learned my fact for the day. Now I can kick back and take it easy.......

I think I'm in love!!!

Weatherby used a highly exaggerated Monte Carlo stock.That is a Classic Stock.

You better be resting up for the surgery.......

It may have classic lines, but it looks like something Huggy Bear would shoot.

Racist! White pimps also like fancy stuff!

Obviously taste varies. Obviously preferences are real. I don't understand the 'need' for insults !

There is at least ONE advantage to hard, glossy finishes. The hard finish 'certainly' helps protect the wood from nicks and dings. It takes definitely more of impact to damage the stock.

I have both - soft & hard finished rifles. When I hunt my 70 XTR FTWT - I am MORE observant and careful NOT to bump it very hard.
I'm not crazy about gloss because of reflection but if your are not WAVING it around I feel it's a MOOT point. I've killed piles of animals w/hard glossy finishes. I've killed plenty game, varmints & deer with Rem 700, RKW (I think it's called).

Salute Jorge ! I think it's gorgeous.

Jerry

Niiiice.

Now lets hit it with some Krylon and take it outside........grin


I like Phil's 458 better,

Amen to that MM. No question which one I'd rather have.

You think there aren't finishes with less gloss that are just as tough?

Notice the absence of one of those gross knobs.... Oh, I'll take the wood and steel every day...

The new stock was also clad in what Remington advertisements described as the “RKW Bowling Pin Finish” and since DuPont had actually developed it as a near indestructible finish for use on bowling pins, it lived up to its name. While it might not be considered pretty by today’s standards, it was tougher than nails and much better than an oil finish at preventing entry of moisture into the stock. I bought a Model 700 BDL in 7 mm Rem. Mag. soon after it came out in 1962 and not once during 50 years of hunting has it lost zero.

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2012/11/30/remingtons-model-700-the-first-50-years/


I knocked the sheen off of a couple by rubbing it with 0000 steel wool. I did try to strip one with paint stripper and it was a task to get the finish off, nothing I wanted to do again. Another downside was that the black fore-end is plastic and it did not do well with the paint stripper.

drover

He was talking about Phil's. You know, the one with the knob twice the size of the holier-than-thou piece of "art".

I’d be emabarassd as hell tromping around with a rifle that’s all done up like a black gentleman’s car and teeth. So loud.

If pimps went hunting......They'd be all over that.

You think that's a standard size knob on that 458? It could be standard I guess, but it looks pretty large and easy to grip and rip. For me, an oversize knob is more functional. Never worried about the looks.

What about your penis size? Have you given it much consideration? Just curious- as another large bolt handle user I don’t often contemplate my weiner, though I do confess to a certain amount of satisfaction in the appearance of my rifle- anyway, what I’m gettin at is that the generalized accusation seems to be that large knob users tend toward a preoccupation with genitals and image. So... where do you stand?

Of course the guys leveling the accusations tend to favor a rifle that looks like it was put together by Snoop Doggs dentist.

What? Sorry man- can you speak up? Until someone turns that loud ass rifle down in going to have a hard time hearing anything

Really? no kidding. I know it's tough sometimes, but I chose that rifle MERELY because of the size of the bolt handle, ergo I posted this picture, but I suppose it was missed..


OR even better yet, here's this work of "art", belonged to a gent named Harry Selby...

Looks like Liberace's .270 to me.

Those rifles would look a lot better with some gold.

A rhinestone studded jacket, pompadour haircut and a crystal candelabra.

I don't know how anyone could not appreciate the artistry and the craftsmanship in that. On second thought, I guess they are the ones with tacticool knobs.

There’s a dentist in here in downtown savannah does enlay quite similar to that in the teeth of black gentlemen from both the hip hop and drug/gang scene, and I absolutely am fascinated and appreciative of the artistry and craftsmanship involved- though I feel it’s an unecessary expense that looks rather garish and therefore don’t feel the need to patronize him myself.

I'm no fan of the tacticool rage by any means but that gun jorge posted up is hideous. I thought about saying you couldn't give me one but I would take it and sell it and buy something practical. Feel the same about the tacticool guns too. I'll take a nice working man's sporter any day..............

That thing would have fit right in with Saddam Hussein's collection:

A 47 folder with bling! Sweet!

I was more impressed with the wood than the knob.

I absolutely agree.

Why the insults ? I don' t understand.

Jerry

If there are, I have not seen nor handled any.
Can you give me an example ?

Jerry

The wood is nice, it's the bling that is over the top lol.

That's what I'm talking about ! !

Jerry

You guys are missing the practical side here: if the scope gets knocked loose, the gold on it acts as a set of register lines, so you know it's close enough to zero that you can take that trophy shot without having to fire a test shot, thereby scaring away said trophy.

Went with a butter knife bolt on my last build. A nice trim rifle (6.5 x 55). Never really been one to worry much about rapid follow up shots, but I have been known to put a cartridge between my off hand fingers when using my single shots.

That’s right. And once you’ve done the scope and rings it just looks silly if you don’t do the rest of the receiver. A nice Luis Vuitton checkering pattern would’ve really finished it off right.


Edit: none of this banter occurs if that rifle doesn’t get posted as demonstration of something more practical than this model 7 for instance (because of the bolt knob?)

Tacticool?

Virtually any finish you can name on a walnut stock can be had with different levels of gloss.

If you go back and actually read what I wrote, that picture was merely to point out the TYPE OF BOLT HANDLE. The wood, engraving, etc was irrelevant and incidental to the bolt issue, that is why I posted two other pictures of a similar rifle. The "bling" as you mention has nothing to do with it. The fact I might like it and a lot here don't is again irrelevant.

Yes but the fact that you didn't strategically place a cigar and a glass of whiskey in the photo is significant, I think.

Remind me to place a tiparillo and a can of Miller Light when I post a rifle with a Tactitool bolt then. Oh yes, along with the manufacturer's logo (or skull and cross bones) on the stock and "Fueld by Hornady" sticker on the barrel. Thanks!

My kind of beer..


Beauty and practical:

Nothing quite like a metal buttplate for practicality.

I suppose the buttplate would be practical if you took it off and used it for scraping hides.

Metal buttplates and muzzle brakes ought to be outlawed.

Yeah, he went 1 out of 2 on the butts.

On the "offending butt", right from Mr. Selby: “In my opinion you have not only an exceptionally beautiful rifle there but an entirely practical one as well. In my fifty five years of professional hunting my respect for the .375 H&H cartridge has increased each time I saw it used. In my opinion the greatest cartridge ever developed. I would prefer to see a visiting hunter arrive for his safari with such a rifle than with a double of any caliber. Good luck on your hunt.”.

link (last post at the bottom of page two): Selby's comments

Harry Selby.

What you doing sittin here.........get your booty out there and make me sum muuney ! !

GRIN

Jerry

I have said it before, and with my relatively paltry experience in the big game fields of the world, the 375 H&H struck me as the laws of physics coming together in an equisite compromise of efficiency for from small game to very large game.

This...^^^

Of course there are a lot of "hunters" who seem to more concerned about how something looks, rather than how it functions....

This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

The bolt handles on every one of my conventional bolt-action sporters have functioned properly 100% of the time...and looked good while doing it. Life's too short to hunt with an ugly rifle.

This. I didn't appreciate the one on my Savage 10-PC until I started shooting prone with it. I like to run the bolt while I still have a cheek-weld and a sight picture. The large handle sure makes it easier.

Ed

Alright listen up- the 3 on the tree works freaking fine- so all you son of bitchers driving a 4 in the floor or god forbid a 5 Spd or an automatic need to put side those Mario Andretti fantasisies, accept your tiny talleywhackerrs and grow up

I’ll tell you what- while we are on the subject, what’s up with all you over compensating clowns using bolt action repeaters? About time some folks learned a little marksmanship and maybe quit creaming there pants about having a follow up shot and how they’ll use it.

Hey!! Hey buddy- take that godawful freaking “wheel” and hit the road. We like things nice and square around here. Been working really well that way for a long time now

I even kill stuff shooting obsolete cartridges like .264 Win Mag and .280 Remington. I guess the animals around here are too stupid to realize I'm not shooting a 6.5 Creedmoor and my bullets are all low on the BC totem pole. They'd all die a second time of outright embarrassment if they saw the 20th century looks of all my rifles.

Or some of us have figured out how to have both. But yes, life is too short to hunt with a fugly rifle..

R R

Do I have your permission to STEAL that post ?

I could use it appropriately in a number of places !!

Jerry

With my blessings, Jerry.

I am a lefty, who hunted with RH bolt guns for over a decade. If I carried it on my left shoulder (and hunting the intermountain west involved a lot of climbing mountains), the bolt would dig into my hip, or even get hooked onto my belt, or a back pocket. The last thing I would have wanted was a bigger bolt that stuck out even farther. If I carry a LH bolt gun into thick stuff on my shoulder, I have some issue now with the bolt catching on brush and branches. Again, the last thing I would want is something that sticks out further.

The point I am making is that the oversize bolt knobs have both benefits and drawbacks that involve the overall functionality of the rifle. There are real drawbacks to oversize bolt knobs that amount to more than just aesthetic preferences.

Obviously that rifle was built for beauty. To paraphrase one of the old stock masters, would you wear rubber boots with a tuxedo?

Excellent point. Lefties shooting RH bolt guns should absolutely consider not utilizing an oversized knob/handle. But then the discussion of lefties shooting righty is hardly one about optimizing or Tayloring equipment to an end user or task. I guess as long as your making due, you... make due


How about it? Every mile you carrried that dang thing I bet you were thinking- if this things bolt handle wee any bigger I’d just hang it all up and find a new hobby.

Do you usually head into the thick stuff with your rifle on your shoulder? At any rate- you’d really want a bolt that locks in that scenario- or if your that worried- maybe a lever gun. No branches will open that action up inadvertently- which I know from extensive 24hour campfire research is a problem only surpassed by bolt handles snapping off. Both of which are issues compounded by a larger handle.

Or as George Gobel once quppied, “a brown pair of shoes?” 😀

I just swore a lot and pondered how stupid some people are. I use the same method to deal with BS today. How many times do you take your gun off your shoulder in a day's hiking, that encompasses 40 degree slopes, thick timber, and a couple thousand vertical feet, and open grassland? If I had to take the rifle off, I did. If I didn't have to, I didn't, just like now. If I am carrying the rifle on my shoulder, it's because I have a good reason to. If I have to carry it in my hands all GD day because of a bolt either jabbing me or catching on random crap, then it's a design problem. Like I said, I can't see the point of an all-around hunting rifle having a more distinct bolt. I can see the benefit of having an easily graspable bolt if you are on your belly behind a rifle for long periods of time.

I have a fairly extensive collection of hunting books and magazines, some of them going back to the 19th century. This entire thread is starting to remind me of the arguments that once raged over whether sidelock side-by-side shotguns should have outside hammers, the ugliness of bolt-action rifles compared to levers (or vice versa), the extreme disadvantages of telescopic sights for deer hunting, or the vicious gang-fights that took place 30-some years ago over synthetic stocks, when one riflemaker called a certain gun writer a "traitor." Even the so-called "classic" rifle in the photo Jorge posted resulted in a bunch of semi-violent reactions.

Of course, a lot of the comments include "I've been using ..... and never needed....." I have noticed over the years that the world would be a very strange place if everybody agreed on very best town to live in, the ideal spouse, or the perfect rifle. If they did, there'd be one very crowded town with a bunch of people married to one person, and a very boring selection of rifles in the local sporting goods store.

No doubt, and I have no vested interest in how another guy shucks his empties. It’s meaningless to me. I had always figured that the way I shucked mine didn’t matter to them- come to find out that in fact my methodology and equipment is not only considered by others, but considered by others to be a sign of genital deficiency, and an overly rich fantasy life. Why the hell they would put that much thought into something they aren’t interested in is curious. Equally curious and assinine are the presentation of rifles directly descended from an action of military origin as the staunch guard against something “tacticool”. Please.


Now I know my experience is of little consequence on the internet- so I refrain from listing it- conversely if you aren’t John B/ mule deer, or a guy I know personally, I certainly wont be the lending any creedence to your experience in a conversation in which a prerequisite is the abandonment of mine. If the assumption is made that I outfit my rifles in a flight of fancy,
I can only attribute that perspective to reflect a lack of real world experience on the part of the guy who holds it. And you can’t argue with that lack of perspective and experience- only tease it a little bit.

But pointless threads are fun in that you can spout off and never really be wrong. Kinda therapeutic.

So long as it's kept civil.

Good luck with that. Incidentally, just did a quick mental inventory on how many rifles I have with either metal, metal skeletonized, aluminum and plastic buttplates. I'm such a rube I guess....

Nobody is demanding you abandon your own perspective.

So tell me, what year did you begin shooting your own rifles? Would it be as far back as 1962? You really ought not disparage the experience level of someone you know nothing about. Disagree on taste and preferences all day long, but do try and keep it real.

I have never known being old to make someone right or wrong in and of itself.

"A good rifle with a fine custom stock having a recoil pad looks like a man in evening clothes wearing rubber boots." I first read that quote from Thomas Shelhamer in Roy Dunlap's book GUNSMITHING back when I was starting to make wooden stocks, as I did for several years in the late 1980's and early 1990's.

Dunlap prefaced it with his own comments: "Recoil pads should never be used except for rifles of very heavy recoil, or for injured persons or others not able to take normal recoil.... Recoil pads detract so much from the appearance of a good stock that they should never be used unless absolutely necessary. Their effect on accuracy is totally unimportant in the hunting arm, however, so they do not detract from the performance of the rifle." Apparently he was as recoil-proof as Elmer Keith, and as unable to comprehend why some other person might not be. Which is of course the case with most humans, who think since they're not recoil-sensitive, or like liver and onions, that everybody else is exactly the same. This seems odd when Dunlap (and Shelhamer) were both custom gunsmiths, supposedly making rifles the way their customers wanted, but there it is.

Of course, when GUNSMITHING was first published in 1950, there were only two kinds of recoil pads, solid models made of pretty hard rubber, which didn't get softer with age, and "ventilated" pads that many shooters didn't like for their looks, or as Ken Waters sometimes pointed out, the fact that their holes could fill with mud in the field. Steel was probably better--except for people who did hurt when a metal buttplate shoved their shoulder. I remember very well the first time my wife fired the .257 Roberts Remington 722 I inherited from my grandmother. I assured Eileen it did not kick hard, but when she fired it she yelped, and called me something not very complimentary.

The fact is that we do NOT all have the same natural padding on our shoulder, though Eileen was otherwise not particularly sensitive to recoil itself until a few years ago, when she started getting recoil headaches. She not only hunted frequently with a NULA .30-06 weighing under 6-1/2 pounds with scope, but test-fired a .416 Remington Magnum made by the late gunsmith Dave Gentry, who wanted to know what she thought. But unlike the .257 Roberts, both of those rifles had modern, soft recoil pads.

I have also seen a few rifles with aluminum or steel buttplates dropped, with the heel hitting some relatively hard surface and the wood behind the metal cracking, usually with a chunk chipping completely off. Of course, some hunters never drop a rifle, or fall.

However, I freely admit there some personal animosity toward metal buttplates. My first centerfire big game rifle was a Savage 99 .308 Winchester with an aluminum buttplate, back when I was a lean 13-year-old. I was a good shot when I got it, but not after it whacked my skinny shoulder over the next several years, due to a flinch. I still don't understand why anybody with any other option possible would deliberately put a metal plate on the only part of a big game rifle that shoves us.

True. Even being experienced sometimes means you know a lot more about what NOT to do than what you should do. Nonetheless, to conclude that someone else must not be experienced because they disagree with you is faulty reasoning at best, and is probably just an attempt to return the favor of getting under another's skin.

You’ve got to understand here- niether m experience nor yours is relevant. Your position is that regular is functional enough, and oversized is ugly. Because you’ve based half of your arguments against the oversized bolt knob on the adequate rather than the ideal I couldn’t debate them even if I were so inclined, the remainder of your argument is aesthetic and assumes that my decision must be based on aesthetics as well, adequacy having been established. Why bother? Enjoy what you’ve got going- it’s adequate.

Meanwhile I’ve got a guy arguing against oversized bolt knob based on his experience as a lefty carrying a right handed rifle. What the hell could i possibly say to argue against that? S h I t- it’s probably good advice. If lefty shooting righty- go for the butterknife maybe- you got bigger problems.

And finally- the elder statesman posting rifles of military derivation right down To grooves for stripper clips machined into the receiver arguing against the “tacticool”


That’s how The assertion that more mechanical advantage is favorable is met around here- nothing about that makes me feel like I need to state my expertise. I’d feel silly trying to establish myself as a subject matter expert in this particular discussion. I’m talking fuel air ratio, and compression ratio and your talking about tuck and roll chrome and piping. Im out of my depth you might say

MD, thanks, couldn't remember where I saw that.
You gotta admit, no you don't as its a matter of taste, that a beautiful piece of wood looks better without being whacked off and having a chunk of black grafted on. I see Shelhamer's comment as aimed purely at the aesthetic Dunlap's rhetoric not withstanding. Functionality is an altogether different matter. Most of my rifles/shotguns wear rubber boots because I shoot better with them and have straight grain wood which Shelhamer probably wouldn't touch except to throw on the fire.

What you consider "the ideal" differs from mine. Conventional size IS ideal in my perspective for a number of reasons. You are most welcome to your own perspective, and I'll keep mine. This is very much like two sightless men arguing the characteristics of an elephant based on what they feel at opposite ends of the animal. You might even think the tactical look is a thing of beauty---you're entitled to think that if you like. I'll simply agree to disagree with you and leave it at that.

I think you just described most of West Virginia.....

It all comes down to what you like. As an Accounting professor was fond of saying, there is no accounting or taste. Which makes this thread pointless though I find it interesting to read other people's perspectives.

in the absence of evidence to the contrary I would have to believe that your rifles meet your needs. Honestly , reviewing your posts and your A) initial and subsequent confusion as to the why of them
Coupled with B) the list of attributes you apparently believe oversized bolt users attribute to them indicates to
Me that we aren’t even agreeing to disagree. Your just out there sort of tilting at windmills.


Quick teachable moment here on my end,
could you let me know what the “conventional size” is, and according to which convention and what year it was established? I just want to know what your referencing for my own situational awareness here

nighthawk,

"...a beautiful piece of wood looks better without being whacked off and having a chunk of black grafted on."

So why is an ebony forend tip, "a chunk of black grafted on," considered classic for the front end of the rifle, but a black pad not OK for the rear end? Many "classic" stockmakers also insist that ONLY a 90-degree angle is correct for the tip, that any other angle is garish.

I might also comment that I've yet to encounter a custom stockmaker (and I've known quite a few over the years, including some famous ones) who was wearing "evening clothes." No doubt one has, somewhere, one times, but generally when most are dressed "up," rubber boots wouldn't be out of place.

Whatever, 175.

Looks are a very individual thing, so I won't go there, but functionally, here's how I see it:

Pros
- More leverage
- Easier to find and grab the handle, since it sticks out from the stock a bit more

Cons
- The handle sticks out further, so can jab into your ribs and snag on things easier

The End.

On topics like this, it is very easy to see those who only wish they have shot or hunted as much as they think they have...

The usual suspects continue to make that crystal clear....

Let's add that large bolt handles did not originate with "tacticool" shooters, but with actual "tactical" shooters. They not only work better when shooting prone, but allow sure bolt function in exceptional conditions, such as extreme temperatures and sand or frost in the action.

Which is exactly why some of the older British big-bore cartridges had over-sized cases, to reduce pressures with early powders (particlarly Cordite) that were heat-sensitive. It's also why a lot of early British bolt rifles were built on Mauser 98 actions, with bolt handles very similar to military 98's, which angle out more than handles designed for scoped sporters.

Ebony tip? Prefer rosewood myself, cut at an angle on a thinner than classic forearm. Probably have some wide, florid ties in the closet too.

Got a fairly nice piece of wood to work on some day, glad to know I won't be needing evening clothes. Kinda scarce in rural SD. But I guess I could cultivate the Eddie Albert on "Green Acres" look. Actually I'm planning on classic lines (because they evolved to be pleasing to the eye) with a few adjustments I like, and accessories to compliment the lines and the wood. Function follows form in this case which is something different for me.

Hey, I was pretty honest. My complaint was about the space they take up in my safe.

Take the bolt out, when you are locking up your rifle.

S

[quote =Paul Barnard] I don't know how anyone could not appreciate the artistry and the craftsmanship in that ....
[/quote]

Well, I’d absolutely LOVE to own a STOCK like that. Now — I don’t know whether I could actually hunt it for fear of damaging it.
Still I’d ADMIRE it and might make it a WALL ornament or Adorning a Coffee table...... I can’t help myself.

Jerry

Well, I’d absolutely LOVE to own a STOCK like that. Now — I don’t know whether I could actually hunt it for fear of damaging it.
Still I’d ADMIRE it and might make it a WALL ornament or Adorning a Coffee table...... I can’t help myself.

Jerry[/quote]
I would take it hunting a heartbeat. That is what's for.

Yes Ken I understand but......

a rifle stock that pretty deserves to be guarded & protected AMAP.

Jerry

Nope,scratches,dings and other marks on the stock are a badge of honor.

If you're going to pay a healthy sum of money for a rifle just to look at or pamper,you're better off just saving the money IMO.

Now I'm going to have to go back to somewhere in the middle of this thread and find out where we switched from knobs to pads and tips. Sheesh.

I think it's all Jorge's fault.........

I have a few rifles with custom walnut stocks, all hunted with considerably, though some more than others. One thing I've found (which isn't exactly a secret) is that really good walnut, especially European, is so hard it resists dings far more than the typical semi-soft, large-grained American black walnut on most factory rifles. Add a thin, flexible finish that's actually in the wood, rather than a thick layer slathered on top like the finish on many factory rifles, and the fancy wood holds up remarkably well to encounters with the Great Outdoors.

I remember the first time I shot my dad's M721 in 30-06. Yeah, it hurt.

Thing is, my now 85 year old dad still shoots his red pad M77 30-06 he bought new in 1971. I don't know how he does it.........

That's impressive! If I live to see 85 I just hope I can still handle a 243.

Always is,after all, I'm an insecure, nazi dick...

There again I understand B U T....

grin


Jerry

How many different versions of a hammer are there? Heavy, light, short, long, framing, tack, sledge etc... Clean and waxed and polished, or hard used with scars, a bit of rust here and there, dings in the handles and so on.

What difference does any of it make, as long as the nail is getting driven.

I suspect hammers are bought and used because they are the best for the use in the users/owners hand(s). Not for looks.

Thats all I have.

Casey,

Yeah, those red pads on older Rugers are almost (but not quite) as hard as steel....

Wow, did this thread grow . I just read through the whole thing, and came to a couple of conclusions. One is, I'm a Fudd. But since I started wearing Stormy Kromers (called Elmer Fudd hats by the local crowd, appropriately) when I fed cows for a living, I figure I've earned the right, That said, everything is a compromise. I'd love the portability of a single shot, but am willing to put up with the extra length that a repeater requires. I started hunting with a Savage 99, as all my mentors were lever action users. I still like levers, but am willing to put up with a bolt handle sticking out to the side for the front locking and simplicity of the bolt action. As I said in an earlier post, I like the anti-fumble of a tactical bolt handle when I'm wearing gloves in cold weather, but they do stick out like a tree limb so haven't yet put one on a rifle. As has been mentioned, steel butt plates are pretty, but I love the functionality of a good recoil pad. I love the trimness of the aperture sights on my on my only iron sighted rifle, but my older eye sure does like a good scope. So we all choose what compromise seems best to us for the job we are doing, and that's all right. It really doesn't matter what the other fellow feels is the best tool for the job.

Interesting topic for another thread. Hardness comparison Ruger Goodyear red pad versus steel and/or Ruger black pad.

Dang Jorge, I never would have pegged you for a Nazi.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Appreciate you capitalizing "Nazi" as I was remiss. Danke.

Now you're just being a Dick.

you forgot: DICK (all caps, please)...

I took 5 of my rimfire rifles to the range yesterday for a long range session. Two of those rifles have semi-tacticool knobs. I had never paid too much attention to the utility of the knobs before, but I gotta say they were nice!

What I've found is a good piece of walnut properly sealed makes an excellent stable hunting stock. The problem is most people aren't willing to pay what it costs for a quality piece of wood, let alone the labor to have it shaped and fit to the shooter and barreled action.

Yeah I know the hate, but the finish on Weatherby stocks is pretty darned durable.

I had TWO of the nicest looking Walnut stocks I've ever seen 'personally'. They were both S W 1500s aka Howas PRE 1986. 1 was 270 W and the other 30-06. They had a very good sealer/finish on them but I I didn't/don't know what kind of finish it was. I hunted them and they were NOT dinged at all - HOWEVER I was always afraid of damaging them.

The 270 stock was actually a little better looking TO ME. The 06 was lighter. I WISH I had kept the 06. I don't think that I'll ever be able to buy another stock that looks as good as they did.

**Whitebird** here has 1 in 6.5-06 that looks a whole lot like the 06 I had. He HAS NOT agreed to sell it to me.
Whitebird, feel free to ADD pic here.

Jerry

Well, it took a little searching but I found it ! ! !
-----------------------------------------------------------
Whitebird posted this in Deer Hunting Forum, "Let's See Some Really Big Deer", 2/18/2017

Jerry, .....You mean this one?


----------------------------------------------------------

Now my S W 1500 30-06 was not identical but

the first time I saw this pic, I thot of that S-W.

I offered to buy this rifle before I knew what cartridge it was chambered for. S A W E E T ! ! ! !

Jerry

Now that's really nice, no extra bling on it at all. Pretty much perfect..............

That is exactly what I want my hunting rifle to look like. My wallet however says it will continue to wear the green plastic that’s on it a few more seasons.


As to the OPs bolt knob question, my savage hog hunter has one. I didn’t notice when I ordered it. It’s ugly, but growing on me. Maybe next I’ll put 3500 in accessories on my 500 rifle.

Guys - notice the KNOB on that rifle !!

It does look a tad bit larger, but not so exaggerated as to be an eyesore. That wouldn't bother me a bit...but a handle the size of a roll of life savers would be hideous.

I do think that's a beautiful rifle. Elegant without "too much art."

roll of lifesavers? Screw THAT...... think BIG! carbon fiber gearshift knob.....

if you like my gearshift knob/bolt handle, you'll LOVE my scope level.........

Takes only a glance to notice that is a larger bolthamdle than “convention” calls for or allows. I have real concerns hat it could possibly gouge another rifle in the safe. Cut that thing off there and it might be something.


Edit. I just imagine that knob causing problems if you hunt where it’s thick or
Brushy. And since I don’t shoot from the prone I doubt it would work for me -iin my imagination t’s a little too large to use to cycle the bolt if your seated or standing offhand.

And can you imagine how it would gouge into you while it’s sling against your back with the bolt handle against you???



I’d say someone needs to put down the comic books, quit pretending to be Chris Kyle and get a proper hunting rifle.

I had an S&W shotgun that had a gorgeous walnut stock on it. Seems a lot of their guns did. The one I had was fairly light in color.

LOL. Jim Zumbo, is that you? Just what is a "proper hunting rifle," professor??

175 -- R U talking about the rifle bolt handle PICTURED **in** your post ?? ...... IF you R..

1st. That is NOT my rifle (YET anyway grin)

2nd. U R out of your ever lovin mind! ! That bolt handle and knob are NOT far from stock -- if any--.

3rd. IF you knew 1/2 half as much as YOU THINK you do... you'd be 1/2 bright.


Smokey you are on the right track. Some people !

Jerry

That would be easy.
One that you've mastered, and have complete confidence in, regardless of what it looks like in the eyes of others....

That's true. I toted a varmint-contoured 6.5x47L a fair bit this year in an ugly Mag-Pul stock (LOP fits my whole family). It looks anything but traditional and is probably 3-4lbs heavier than most of my sporters, but it shoots smoothly and I can easily hit what I aim at. I have confidence in the thing......

Just to spite you bastards, I just ordered a few of these.....

https://www.brownells.com/rifle-par...n-700-tactical-bolt-handle-prod6907.aspx

Well, after all, it's not really hunting unless you do it exactly the way I do, and it's not a proper hunting rifle unless it looks exact;y like mine...

Luckily for most hunters today, they don't have to make use of a horse and scabbard in their hunting endeavors. Tacticool knobs, turrets, and big azz scopes probably wouldn't fare well in a scabbard--one of the roughest rides a rifle and it's accouterments will generally face. In my lifetime I've seen 4 barrels bent, three of them by horses, all the barrels were 24" or 26". One of them was a German Weatherby.........

Smokey, now we can call 175, " Knob Head

Jerry

What can I tell you, after rereading all the posts from those who dislike a decent size handle on there bolt rifle I’ve changed my view 180 and I’m using all handi rifles now.

Edit: I realized that at 39 it didn’t matter that I carried and employed a rifle professionally my whole adult life and recreationally my whole life my experience was deceiving me and I was better off adopting the view of someone with more years under there belt...

You'd think someone struck a nerve. LOL.

Freaking pains me to discard this model 7, but it’s just a damn farce of a rifle. Time to grow up.

Abandoned for something sensible

I have noticed some the tacticool and long range crowd are pretty sensitive...............

Maybe one day it’ll be cool to front like your an accountant and you’ll start
To get irked about the posers.

175, why are you so wound up over what other guys think? You've got to realize that somewhere, there's someone out there who disagrees with you about 100% on every subject ever discussed. It's just opinions. Relax. Use what you like and don't worry so much about what anyone else thinks. Be happy and have fun.

I’m just having a good time while I wait on the gunsmith to finish installing a ramrod on my new musket.


If I was bothered I’d
Tune out. I take frequent extended breaks from the fire.

At any rate it’s proven a valuable excercise for me. I used my imagination to make up the same problems some of the rest of y’all imagined- and your right it was awful to imagine.

Actually, unless you can think of earlier examples, I think the oversized bolt knob idea had its origins in the Tikkas I mentioned earlier, back in the 70s - sporting rifles - and specifically for use with gloves in cold climates. It then seemed to fade from view, apart from the odd Biathlon rifle. It was only much more recently that the whole "tactical rifle" thing took off among civilians, and more recently still that enlarged bolt handles of various sorts seemed form part of that. In the meantime, I'd really have to look pretty hard to find actual issued rifles with such a feature.

As to whether they are "better" for prone, as I said earlier, that may depend on your technique. Thinking about it over the past few days in the bush I suspect that the advantage, if there is one, is probably for those who palm the bolt handle, which seems to be a popular technique in the US, though not elsewhere (certainly frowned upon in my service experience). I certainly could see no advantage for myself with the ones I've tried, either in prone slow or rapid fire - quite the opposite in fact - but it doesn't bother me if people want to have them. As for sand etc and actual service use, as opposed to blingin', it strikes me that you're better off keeping sand out of your action in the first place, and that a long protruding bolt handle is not without its disadvantages too.

Accuracy International.
PGW.
etc.

When the general public switched from leverguns to Mausers way back in the day, I suppose they were just trying to copy the military to be 'tacticool' also.

Change is nothing new.

Now that is interesting. I was taught the palm method by my dad who learned it in the U. S. Army where grabbing the handle was frowned upon. I find it smoother and maybe a little faster probably because I'm used to it.

You say to-MAY-to and I say to-MAH-to

Dan,

In my library are a few uncommon reference books, or at they're uncommon among the shooters I know. One includes photos of more than one WWII (and perhaps a little earlier) military sniping rifle with larger-than issued bolt handles, though all of them have conventional round knobs. But from what I can glean, extra-large bolt handles for non-winter use may have originated after the advent of the .338 Lapua Magnum, which was developed in the 1980's. The cartridge itself, like many "modern" rounds with larger-diameter case bodies without much taper, tends to require a little more extraction leverage, even without any extraneous dust (or whatever) in the chamber or on the rounds. And of course, .338 Lapuas are shot from prone. Some references show pretty early .338 Lapuas with extra-large bolt handles. I am still researching this for GUN GACK II, which will include more info on rifles themselves than the first book, though also plenty of chapters on handloading techniques, both general and for specific rounds.

Also, there are apparently a bunch of ways to work a bolt, none of them absolutely incorrect for some purposes. I was one of those taught to rapidly work a bolt with the palm-slap method, which works very well (and very quickly) for offhand shooting, for several reason too involved to go into here, though I did one of my SPORTS AFIELD columns on the subject a couple years ago. But it's not nearly as good for prone shooting, because the bolt-arm elbow needs to be dropped down. I eventually realized this during more recent training, where a longer, cylindrical bolt handle could be grasped over the top and worked easily, and allows the bolt-arm elbow to be extended naturally out to the side.

As always on the Campfire, YMMV.

Lots of interesting views and observations on this thread, but the best part is finding out that Gun Gack II is in the works! Let us know when it is available, Mule Deer.

The best part was seeing my gearshift knob, admit it........

The level was better............

Chuckle....well, almost as good as a new book to look forward to