Hoping someone out there may have chronographed some Remington factory loads out of an 8 mm Remington Magnum and will share your findings.
My partner on an upcoming moose hunt is planning on using one of these, so I'm curious.
I also don't view myself as man enough to shoot a Big 8 myself. 300 Savage is more my speed lately, and I'm thinking of adding a fat recoil pad to that.
Thanks for any insight you might provide!

Getting chronographed numbers from someone else’s rifle will not reflect the velocity your friends rifle might get with the same loads. I’ve seen 200 FPS difference between 2 rifles on the same day with the same Ammo.

8 Rem Mag is a beautiful choice for Moose regardless of what the Chrony results are. But I do know the Remington 185 load has a reputation for not being tough enough for the velocities it runs. The heavier Core-Lokt load was always a good one though.

jwp475,
Thanks for comments. I believe any actual data is preferable, as over time, it might indicate a constant. For example, I have used Whelens for over 30 years, occasionally "chronoing" factory ammo as a kind of bench mark. Remington factory stuff has been consistently slow, but very accurate. I have used the same box, and newer stuff, for this over 15 years, as another interesting check on my chrono and the ammo. Three different Whelen have been used over this period. The newer Fed Premium stuff is somewhat more aggressive.

Moosemike,
Thanks for comment.
We have had a closet fascination with the Big 8 since it was introduced, so now closing the loop on a pretty one that came out of Remingtons custom shop. I was curious about the 185s. Happily, my bro has accumulated several boxes of the 220 gr Core Lokts. Seem like they should be smashers.
Overkill is just right.
We have a late season moose tag for Maine, which might bring the opportunity for a longer range shot than might be likely, earlier in the fall. The Big 8 seems like a fine recipe.
I plan on enjoying watching others fire this rifle as my shoulder is not as forgiving of abuse as it once was.
I have a couple of grandsons and nephews that think a real loud bang and a hard push, is big fun. The big 8 ought to get their attention.

fish

IF my pard who bought my 8 mag new ever had OR ever chronoed any Factory ammo--- I don't know.

I bought the gun from him in the 90s and I never bought OR chronoed any factory ammo.

You are correct about Rem factory ammo's rep for being slow. I don't recall EVER graphing ANY Rem ammo that was correct and
especially NOT faster than advertised.

Wish I could be of some help but I don't have that info.

Good Luck


Jerry

Just P.M. Mule Deer bet he has an answer for you

Didn't try to find it but Craig Boddington was one of the few writers that championed the 8mm RM. He reviewed the rifle and cartridge in 1978 for guns & ammo I believe and chronoed factory and some handloads then. He had a heavy rifle built by I believe Prairie Gun works with a 28" barrel if memory serves. He was trying to get the 200 & 220s over 3,000 fps which his handloads did in that rifle.

I wouldn't be too concerned on the velocity of factory loads as it won't be lacking even if under advertised specifications. The Heavier core lokt is a good bullet but I would consider something even stouter if possible. I always wanted to try the 250 Woodleigh in the big 8. This would turn it into a sort of modern 318 Westly Richards and should be good for anything short of Tyranosaurs.

I’d load up 185 TTSX and not worry about someone else’s velocity.

Well I do have this info:



Sept. '77, JRS did the intro for Shooting Times.

> 24" barrell < Rem 700 BDL

Rem Factory 220, AVG. 2845 fps

He worked up slowly to

* 78 1/2 grs IMR4831, = 2940 AVG.

2 FIVE shot groups, 1 1/4" and 1 3/8"

The 200 NP was not on the market at the time.

I use IMR 4831 and the 200 NP for @ 3100 fps. I've shot this load more than any other. I have good case life and accuracy 1" - 1 1/2"


Maybe that'll help.

Jerry

It has been years, but, IIRC the factory Remington 220 grain CoreLocts went about 2800-ish out of my 24 inch Classic. That load has been discontinued for decades though.

I was able to get 220 grain Barnes Xs up to about 2900 with H4831.

If I was doing it now I would bank heavily on 200 grain TSXs over about all the H1000 I could get in the case.

Don't worry about the velocity. There is no substitute for shooting it at extended ranges. If you will be hunting at significantly different elevation, have him shoot it at distance when you get there as well.
PS I'm a big fan of the 8mm mag. I've taken black bears, whitetails and a big Utah 6x6 bull elk at 450 yards. I shot out to 600 in Utah prior to the hunt and had to take off a couple of clicks across the board from my Missouri drops.
Enjoy your moose hunt!

I have a custom 8 Mag on a Sako AIII action and a 26" Pacnor barrel.It shoots 200 grain Accubond bullets close to 3100FPS into sub inch 5 shot groups.I was able to get close to 3200FPS but was shooting a pattern ,not a group then.I would think the Accubond or 200 grain Partition would be the shiz on moose.

I've always wanted one of these - the first gun magazine that I bought in the early 80s (late 70s?) had an article about this newcomer. I have a 325WSM, so almost there now.

As I recall, God himself (in the fourth person) greeted its birth with "What's it good for?" Not my opinion, just offering historical perspective.

It was reported that this was Elmer Keith's response when introduced to it at a Remington shindig. I've always been a JOC guy, generally discounting Elmer. 50 years later, still the same.
I supppse you're making a point, but I.m not getting it.....
In my case, well, its a damn handsome rifle.
Got a late season moose hunt on the schedule for this fall.
What sane person would question the lethality of a ~200 grain Partition launched at ~3,000fps? I'm thinking its good for anything in NA and most of Africa. I think the same of a 308.
Did I mention it was pretty?

The Rem,8MM mag gets a bad shake from a lot of writers who want to compare it to a 340 Weatherby or a 338 Win. Mag.The true comparison is to a 300 Weatherby Mag.Do the comparison and see how the 8 Mag shines.JMHO,Huntz

jwp, That is a real interesting idea, I've had a little hunting experience with monos in my 270s, and have liked everything I've seen. A 185 out of a Big 8 ought to have a darn interesting trajectory, important to me as I am a lousy judge of distance past 100-150 yards. This is the results of a kid that grew up with 22's and shotgun slugs.

I always wanted one, would load the 185 TTSX for it.

Your first sentence indicates that you did, indeed, get the point that I was making (not about the 8mm Magnum).

I have a stock Rem 700bdl in 8mm Rem Mag that I have used for moose and elk for the last 20yrs. I cannot tell you the muzzle velocity but the 200gr Nosler Partition shoots MOA with 80.5gr R22 and WLRM primer. I have taken 5 Saskatchewan moose with this load. I would like to add to what mooseman said. My first trip to Saskatchewan I used Remington factory loads. When I shot my moose at 85 feet the bullet blew up on the rib. Only thing that took the moose down was the bone & bullet shrapnel going through the lungs. I would definitely choose the strongest bullet your rifle will shoot accurately. I have heard some good things about the Double Tap ammunition but I have not used it personally. Good Luck.

skitish

Thanks for you personal input from experience with the 8 mag. I've had mine so long that the 200 NP was a pretty new 8mm bullet and I chose it for my possible Elk hunting load.

Following JRS' lead I worked up to 80 grs. of IMR 4831 with the 200 NP for @ 3100 fps and good accuracy. That's about 2 grs. more than Nosler # 7 lists. I have good case life w/o expanded primer pockets, difficult bolt lift, NOR brass head scrapes.

I still hope to use mine on an elk while I can still hunt them.


Jerry

Even the gods can make mistakes. Elmer was prejudiced in favor of the 33s. The eight mag never got the deserved credit it should have achieved. There were early reports that it kicked, duh. The bullet range from 160 to 310 grains is just the ticket for medium big game, medium being elk to moose and eland. This would be a great plains game cartridge in circumstances where you might encounter something bigger unexpectedly. I tend to agree to the theory that a good big cartridge will out do a good smaller cartridge every time as JOC wrote.

Right On Bro. !!! I’m tied to that stump as well.

eg. The 270 W has never disappointed me, close or far....

ATST I have an affinity for the 7mm R M for that reason.
I’ve killed WT as close as 12’ and as far as +/- 375 yds with the 7 Mag.

“IMO” the 7 is just a step ahead of the 270 but will shoot a little flatter at extended range
I’m speaking of proportional bullets per each cartridge.

Jerry

The big 8 used to suffer from a lack of variety of good bullets. Is that still the case ?

Clynn,

Not so much, but it was a major factor in not attaining the popularity so many people apparently feel it deserved.

The 8mm Magnum was introduced in 1978, when Nosler did not make ANY 8mm bullets. It was also the same year Bob Hagel's fine book appeared, GAME LOADS AND PRACTICAL BALLISTICS FOR THE AMERICAN HUNTER, which finally broke through the "cup-and-core" mentality of most American hunters at that point. In general, until then most chose bullets by weight, not construction, and heavier cup-and-cores worked better on bigger game, both because of the weight and, often, lower muzzle velocity.

In 1978 the only two practically obtainable "controlled expansion" bullets in the U.S. were the Partition and a lesser-known (and essentially local) bullet, the Bitterroot Bonded Core--apparently the first bonded-core bullet made. The BBC was developed by a guy named Bill Steigers near where Hagel lived in Idaho, so Hagel described both their performance and that of Partitions. (Speer had also started making the Grand Slam, but the early version was far from controlled-expansion. I know this because I used some, which tended to come apart.)

Anyway, as pointed out, Nosler did not make 8mm bullets, but pretty soon introduced the 200-grain 8mm Partition, mostly in response to the 8mm Remington Magnum. But not nearly as many hunters handloaded back then, and those that did usually did not recognize the advantages of controlled-expansion bullets--partly, I suspect, because most handloaders back then wanted to save money more than improve performance. (Apparently Bill Steigers never made an 8mm BBC--or at least I cannot find any reference to one in my extensive library.)

Generally, a new cartridge succeeds or fails within 2-3 years of introduction. While the 8mm Remington Magnum may be a fine cartridge, even the 220-grain Core-Lokt wasn't a totally reliable bullet for game larger than deer. Plus, the .338 Winchester Magnum had already been around for 20 years, and was really becoming established among American hunters of bigger game. Not only had Nosler been making .338 Partitions for a long time, but the 250 and 300-grain factory loads performed well, again due to heavy weight combined with moderate velocity. (The .338 also fit in standard .30-06 length magazines, another advantage over the 8mm RM.)

Plus, around the same time Nosler introduced the .30 caliber 200-grain spitzer Partition, which replaced the previous "semi-spitzer" (round-nose), increasing the down-range performance of the .300 magnums, and also introduced the 225-grain .338 Partition, which for practical purposes matched the velocity of the 220-grain 8mm factory load. By then the .338 was popular enough that ammo factories started loading Partitions, making even more effective factory ammo available to non-handloaders.

Put all that together, and it's no real wonder the 8mm Remington Magnum did not catch on. By the time more premium 8mm bullets became generally available, it was pretty much dead.

Would the 200 grainers be much of an advantage over the same in a 300 magnum ? I would think the big 8 wouldn't come into its sweet spot until 250 grains or better ?

I am inclined to think that a 8 Rem Mag, that was accurate, with either a 185 gr mono, or the 200 gr Partition, would define the sweet spot for effectiveness on game at any practical range. Folks that have hunted this cartridge seem consistent in their opinion of reliable effectiveness in the field. Bonded bullets are likely solid choices as well.
My experience with Partitions goes back several decades, and I have developed an inherent bias in their favor. They just don't disappoint.
250 gr bullets seem to be more in the realm of the 35 caliber. I know they have been deadly out of my Whelen's. I have no experience with 250's out of the 33 cals.
As a final (not so) smart remark, I would remind you all that Elmer often mentioned raking shots(Texas heart shot), and seemed to be kind of a proponent. I don't know of anyone who would take such a shot on game that had not already been wounded. His era was long ago.

A Texas heart shot and a raking shot are two different shots. A raking shot is one that attempts to drive a bullet at a steep angle through the flank angled forward toward the opposite shoulder, hoping to take out the heart and lungs along the way. A Texas heart shot, in my opinion has always implied a pelvis shot. When executed properly, it's highly effective at immediately anchoring the animal to the spot. I would use it and have used it on occasion on both wounded and unwounded game. The steep raking shot starts out as a gut shot with the hope of driving the bullet forward into the front portion of the kill zone. I'll take the THS before I'd ever consider a raking shot.

jwall

I think I would stay with the 200gr Nosler Partition for moose since I know it works, whether near or far. Of course that has nothing to do with me having 250 rounds or so loaded up, but I have always wanted to try the Barnes 180gr on elk. I think the added velocity and weight retention would make it quite the elk round. Also I found my best accuracy when the Nosler Partition was seated to .005 to .007 off the lands.

I wonder how well it would have sold in the Sendero rifle?

How well did the sendero sell in Popular rounds ??

I don’t know the answer to that.

The sendero does NOT appeal to at all SINCE every one of them I handled
felt like an anchor. Really ! Way too heavy.

Jerry

They are heavy, made for stand hunting on Senderos. They ain’t a stalking rifle, that’s for damn sure. I have three heavies, a 7mm ultra mag, a 7 mag I had made into a 26 Nosler, and a 300 Win mag. They are great for a stand, not much recoil.

Thanks and yes, I agree with you about using the 200 NP.....because I have them and a load that works for Elk

plus.... in +/- 20 yrs I have not been drawn for our Permit Elk hunt. It doesn't make sense to me spend the $$$ and time testing to
develop another load with another bullet.

Thanks Again


Jerry

It's interesting to hear that so many people are mentioning the Nosler partition in the 8mm Rem mag and how successful they've been.
The reason l say that is because well known Australian gun writer, Nick Harvey used a 8mm Rem Mag in Africa a few years ago.
He loaded up the 200gn Nosler partition at 3000fps at the recommendation of his good friend Col. Charles Askins and in Nick's words, "it was an unmitigated disaster".
Apparently the point blew off completely and the remaining bullet then lacked penetration. He then had to use a 180 or 185gn (I can't remember which) solids that he had for back up for the rest of his trip. That's his words not mine as I have no experience with the big 8mm - although I am a fan.
Maybe he got a bad batch?
If anyones interested I can find the article and post it up...

BBMelvin,
I would be interested in seeing the article you reference.
I have several decades of experience with Partitions, with consistently reliable performance on game. They were designed to perform as you describe, but the rear section has always continued to penetrate pretty well, in my experience, usually exiting.
I wonder if there was an era where Partitions were built with "to much" nose and insufficient rear mass.?.?

That is the way the Nosler is designed to work. I have only seen it be a problem on one giraffe. The reduced penetration and lack of straight line penetration combined with poor shooting made for a mess.

Is there a chance the early Noslers were designed to work in the 8mm Mauser? Nosler may have split the difference between the two initially but if they did they quickly corrected the situation and made the 8mm more like the 338s with a heavier jacket and more forward location of the partition.

I regret passing on one at a LGS about ten years ago if only for the experience. Maybe I would have liked it, but I certainly never would have needed it.

« Apparently « just may be the clue. It doesn’t seem very positive.
I’ve been surprised at the number of guys who DIDN’T know/understand how
the partitions are DESIGNED !!

With all the advertising and promotions of N P since their introduction—- I don’t understand
any except novice handloaders NOT knowing HOW they work !!!

Jerry

458Win here, I believe, did a cartridge introduction for it in a past Nosler manual and has used it in the field.

"As a final (not so) smart remark, I would remind you all that Elmer often mentioned raking shots(Texas heart shot), and seemed to be kind of a proponent. I don't know of anyone who would take such a shot on game that had not already been wounded. His era was long ago."

FWIW it works fine, provided everything is up to task in boring a straight line, which many expanding rifle bullets aren't, so obviously shouldn't be considered. Large diameter solids care not if going front to back or back to front, and it isn't any more nefarious for the animal.

Like shooting at running game, long range or with a bow, YMMV.

I'm sure Nick Harvey knows exactly how they work - I'm just trying to remember what the article said as it's been many years since I've read it...

As I said I have no personal experience with the NP in the 8mm Rem Mag. And to be honest l can only remember reading one negative review on the NP in any caliber - and that's the one Nick wrote about in the Australian Sporting Shooter mag. And I can remember him citing lack of penetration as the problem...

l'll try and find the magazine and post up his comments.

Yes, Noslers tend to open quickly and, at close range, the foward portion is usually lost altogether. I think they work best at the same velocities as any cup and core. The Swift A-frame improved on the design.
Another real good controlled expansion bullet (as long as you wanted a 180 grain 30 cal.) was the Norma Dual Core, as loaded in the 308 Norma Mag. It perfromed like Speer wanted their Grand Slam to perform.
On the 8mm Mag, I always thought it was a bit of an under-achiever, asloaded by the factory and I think they might have done just as well with the 338 necked down. GD

Nick Harvey’s problem as described was lack of penetration.

Just finished reading Ken Waters Pets Loads write up for the Big 8. It was written 41 years ago. A problem that Waters encountered was with the powders available at the time did not seem "just right" for the unusual case capacity vs bore diameter of the 8mm Rem Mag. I am wondering if one of the newer powders might solve that problem??
It surprised me that that slower powders of the time were not optimal choices.
As none of the big dogs seem to be putting any new effort in load development for the Big 8, the problem gets a little more interesting. Is there another cartridge that might be a reasonable source for interpolation? Perhaps one of the new Nosler rounds?

Huntz, Interesting to find that Ken Waters came to this very same conclusion.

Your answer for that "another cartridge" is the comparison you just made...