Potentially, all of the above have about the same capacity, or close enough, to be about equal in performance, but IMO the Creed is the best fit in SAs, especially the ones with 3" mags. Great brass and ammo are a click away, plus factory guns are twisted right. Beyond these, a larger caliber might be in order, to avoid short barrel life especially.
I just picked up a 1964 Gun Digest with some brief pieces on the renamed .244, aka 6mm. The writers were fussing about it being stuffed in a SA, the 20" light barrel, and accuracy with factory ammo. Was even a hint that a 9" twist was still too slow. Sounds familiar, huh?
I have many 6mm’s, my favorite is a 6 BR with Lapua brass and a 1-8” twist barrel. With 95-105gr Berger’s have taken rock chucks to antelope past 1000 yards with 10 times the barrel life of my 6-284
I cant imagine any of them being bad but with a case full of 26 and a 95 gr NBT the plain ol 243 kills deer like the Hammer of Thor.... AN I have 3 of them so if it ain't broke.. LoL ALthough I have considered AI'ing one of them just for giggles.
243? 243ai? 6mm rem? 6mm ai? 6mm creed? Long distance groundhogs and white tails.
Do you build custom 6mm rem ai on long actions?
My favorite 6mm is a custom Mauser 6mm Remington.....(self built)…..as for "AI"?.....I have never seen the logic for one.....they merely add to the cost and contribute very little to performance if any at all!
With a 95 or 100 grain bullet, it’s a deer killing SOB
With a 55 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip, it’s a very flat shooting long range coyote killing machine.
My old early 80’s Remington BDL Varmint Special is on of the most accurate Remington’s I’ve ever owned.
Did a perusal of the usual supply houses and nobody has any 6mm rem brass for sale, in stock. Arg. Lots of 243 and lapua too. Maybe 243 ai?
Buy some 7x57 brass and neck it down. I did that with a box of 7mm Mauser I somehow ended up with. The bullets did not go to waste as my 7/08 gobbled them up. Or, use 257 Roberts if that is more readily available.
If there was a nice 6 BR repeater ready to go from the factory, then that would get my vote.
It is easy, and unless you want to toss long bullets from a factory rifle, it's fine, with ammo everywhere, and cheap good ammo to boot according to many here. Had a chance to pick up a nice one for about half the sticker price, so it joined my CM, and will get fed from my stash of pingpong balls. It's my fourth one, and none of them ever tasted factory chow. Have enough brass to fry the barrel, and it will then get re-bored, or rebarreled to 6CM.
We enjoy shooting and have several 6mm Rem. rifles in heavy barrel varmint models (Ruger 77V and a Rem. 700 BDL Special Varmint). Have found them to be accurate with 90 gr. Accubonds and very effective on deer. I load the 70 gr. Ballistic Tip bullets for practice at the range. The heavier rifles allow for plenty of practice w/o our kids experiencing very much recoil, so they have fun shooting them. Lots of smiles when they hear the impact on steel targets.
My favorite is the 6mm Rem. In comparing it to the 6CM, it doesn't appear there's much difference in velocity using 100+ grain bullets. I may end up building up a 6CM, if for no other reason than to aggravate the anti CM crowd here and I would build a CM before building a 243.
For fun, excitement and love of wildcatting = 6x47 (6mmx222 Mag), 6mm Bullberry ( 6mmx30-30 Improved) 6mmx284. For off the shelf readiness, etc= .243, (from varmints to deer) 6mm Remington ( long range prairie dogs/deer) and for deer/antelope, even elk .240 Weatherby. Love em! For some reason, where I grew up in Se Texas, the 6mm in the Mod 742 "took off"! I only saw two .243s in my younger life! But it was considered a flat shooting, accurate, fast killer w/o tearing up those little deer.
My interest lies in the 6 Creedmoor. Definitely fits in a short action, even with the longest bullets. Wide range of excellent factory ammo loaded with long, slippery bullets and rifles that are twisted properly are easily available OTC.
I like the 6mm Remington. I had a Ruger No.1 in 6mm which was one of the most accurate sporters I ever owned; until I burned the barrel out. If I was going to build a 6mm on a short action, I think I would go with a 6mm/250. GD
Way back when dinosaur tracks were new, for a while my only centerfire rifle was a Ruger 6mm. With it, I killed many deer-sized animals. It was easy to load for and it killed the snot outa stuff. Back then my go-to bullet was the 100 grain Winchester Power Point. If I wanted another, it would be a 6mm Rem. in an intermediate length action with an 8 twist barrel so I could use longer bullets.
Hard to pick a favorite, have shot and owned more 243s but always thought the 6 Rem. was a better design. Just starting to load for a 6 AI and will hunt with this some this year. If I do another 6mm it will be either the Creedmoor or the 6x47 Lapua. Probably the 47 as I like Lapua cases and it is an even better fit for short actions than the Creed. But either would fill the same niche.
RE: 6mm Brass, I just checked Grafs and they had Hornaday, PPU, and Winchester. If you like Winchester better stock up as it is a seasonal item. I haven't tried the Hornaday yet but some say it is better than Winchester. Got a bunch of the PPU brass on sale and it is good sort of like Lake City brass, seems as hard as Lapua, but the primer pockets were undersized or metric. I had to uniform and bevel them to get primers to seat easily. Got the Lyman tool and it does the prep in one pass.
Next batch will be RWS 6.5x57 mm cases necked down.
Try the Winchester primers Tex, I had a #Lot of Nosler 280 brass once that had undersize pockets, CCI BR-2 were a no-go! Winchesters slipped right in...
Try the Winchester primers Tex, I had a #Lot of Nosler 280 brass once that had undersize pockets, CCI BR-2 were a no-go! Winchesters slipped right in...
Interesting. I had a lot of Nosler 243 brass and WLR primers would not go in with my Lee priming tool, and had to resort to my RCBS Bench priming tool, and even then it was iffy--I kept expecting a primer to blow...... Fed 210's were slightly easier.
A friend of mine is a 6mm loonie. He also owns a Hawkeye borescope (with most 6mm's that's a handy tool to have). He's saying his 6mm CM is eroding the throat about as fast as the average 243 burning slow powder. He also claims his 243 AI's are much easier on throats than the 243's, 6mm Rem, 6mm CM's.
Interesting thread--thought not nearly as interesting as those who chose The 6mm Cartridge decades ago and for some reason believe nothing can ever improve.
Among the interesting things I've "learned" here is the scarcity of 6mm Remington brass is easily solved by making it from .257 Roberts brass--which is perhaps even scarcer than 6mm Remington brass.
Have also discovered that the practically identical 6x47 Lapua is vastly superior to the 6mm Creedmoor.
My experience with 6mms started in 1974 with what turned out to be an essentially new Remington 700 BDL sporter, purchased for $80 from a co-worker who'd gotten it as a gift from an ex-boyfriend. The price included the very good leather sling Remington included with BDL's back then, and all but two rounds of a box of new ammo. Over the years I killed enough stuff from prairie dogs to mule deer with the rifle to know it was VERY accurate--and unlike many hunters back then, also eventually figured out the .243 really would kill deer very well. (Can't remember how many articles I've read saying the .243 was "marginal" for big deer.) Also have had plenty of experience with other .243's over the decades, and it still works great.
Since then have handloaded for and hunted with a bunch of 6mm cartridges, from the 6mm PPC to .240 Weatherby. Have now owned two "affordable" 6mm Creedmoor factory rifles, both of which shot a wide variety of handloads more accurately than any of the .243s I've owned--which have includes some high-end factory and custom .243s The velocities are about the same, which isn't surprising since the powder capacity of .243 and 6mm CM are very similar. So if you're a handloader, why not get a 6mm Creedmoor?
If you're not a handloader, a .243 makes more sense. But if you're probably not reading any of this anyway--unless you just want to complain.
The wife used a 243 for many years, and I have owned a few. They do indeed work well on deer. The only I did not like about them is they destroy a lot of meat on closer range shot. Even with 100's or 105's. Several deer with the chest soup.
I agree a 6-284 is hard to beat if you love buying barrel’s........ I have had 4 barrel ‘s on the same rifle!!!! Awesome accuracy but just too short of barrel life
Handloading has taught me much how a rifle (gun) works. I find handloading absolutely fascinating.
I bought my first 6mm a few years back so my daughter could call it her own. It is an old early '60s 700 BDL 6mm Rem. The price was about $350. I had no idea how many rounds were shot in it. It did not shoot factory loads all that well.
I hand loaded NBT 95 gr and 80 gr TTSX bullets for it and never looked back. What a fun rifle to shoot. I only have shot it out to 400 yards but it never dissapoints. Year before last my daughter got a Black Bear with that 80gr TTSX.
243? 243ai? 6mm rem? 6mm ai? 6mm creed? Long distance groundhogs and white tails.
Do you build custom 6mm rem ai on long actions?
6br, I shot an awful lot of roos with that cartridge and found it equal to any task I asked of it.
Basically i wanted something that would preform somewhere around a 22-250, sound near a 223, and not leave me felling like I had been smacked around the head with a pillow all night.
Which makes a big difference when facing a two hour drive back to the chiller in the morning to offload carcases.
added. it also helped that the stumpy little buggers didn't tip over easily on the loading bench.
My favorite 6mm is my 6BR. But it gets shot only at the range.
If I wanted a hunting rifle in 6mm I would consider the 6x47L, 6 Creedmoor, and maybe a 6XC. I would consider availability of Lapua brass, think about cold weather and small rifle primers, and consider how the rounds feed from a magazine without special magic tricks that might frustrate me later.
243? 243ai? 6mm rem? 6mm ai? 6mm creed? Long distance groundhogs and white tails.
Do you build custom 6mm rem ai on long actions?
6br, I shot an awful lot of roos with that cartridge and found it equal to any task I asked of it.
Basically i wanted something that would preform somewhere around a 22-250, sound near a 223, and not leave me felling like I had been smacked around the head with a pillow all night.
Which makes a big difference when facing a two hour drive back to the chiller in the morning to offload carcases.
added. it also helped that the stumpy little buggers didn't tip over easily on the loading bench.
What bullet were you using I used to use a 270 when it got windy
Since this is a Gunwriter' s forum I have to share that the main reason my first deer rifle was a 6mm stems back over 50 years to when I was a kid reading a F & S or Sports Afield in a barbershop waiting for my haircut. Musta been around +-1970. There was a deer hunting yarn written by a hunter describing the shot he finally took with his 'flat shooting 6mm' . I always remembered that and thought, "Gee it must be magical" I swear I can just abut remember the illustration too - all these years later . Would love to find that article somehow.
My father liked the 6mm Rem, and it was his "big" gun for big game from the time he graduated high school onward into his 30's. He hunted more with a 6mm Rem than any other cartridge for deer and elk. He liked Nosler Partitions. A lot. Later in life, he preferred punching paper, and got into a 6 PPC that shot better than he could. Then a 6mm BR built on an XP100, again a tack driver. He toyed with those on and off until he quit shooting. He came to prize them.
Dad bought my mother a 243 a few years after I was born, a Ruger M77. I hunted with it several times as a youth, for deer, antelope, and various varmints, including coyotes and rock chucks, usually with the same 100 grain factory ammo. My daughter will have that gun when she is old enough to use it. My son already has a 243 that he loves, and thinks is "the big rifle". I am a huge fan of the 243 as well, for its flat-shooting ability to kill stuff well from 30 feet to 440 yds. Last year I had McGowen cut me a 25" Sporter in 243 AI with a 1:8". I've not messed with it enough to claim undying love yet, but I will say that it is what I hoped it would be, and maybe just a hair more than I thought.
If I was starting from scratch, I'd likely go Creedmoor. For all the obvious reasons. But my AI is built on a standard length action, and feeds just swell with stuff that wouldn't fit in a short action, and I can basically chase the lands until they are all gone. There are several 243's around here, and enough brass that's been stashed to let my kids' kids shoot.
As for me and my house, make it a .243. At one time I was feeding 4 or 5 of them. Came up with a middling load of Varget pushing three 95gr Partitions into MOA groups in most of the rifles. Literally several dozen KY White Tails fell to that combination. Still set up with plenty of brass and and bullets to last my lifetime. No flies on the other 6mm's. But as said above, "If it ain't broke..."
My current favorite 6mm is the 6X45. I have an AR with a 20" Black Hole Weaponry barrel on it that is a great coyote or deer gun. I was able to get a very good deal on a bunch (10 boxes) of the now discontinued 80 grain Sierra SSP (single-shot pistol) bullets. They shoot great out of the AR, I am able to get good velocity with them and they perform very well on game. When those are gone, I won't hesitate to use the 90 grain Nosler BTs or the 92 grain Cavity Back MKZs. For the type of hunting that I do (mostly small plot or field corners for meat deer), it is just about the perfect round. Add a suppressor and I can watch the bullet impact through the scope.
I like it so much that I just picked up a Remington SPS Varmint in .223 for cheap with the intention of making it into a lightweight 6X45 repeater that I can throw the suppressor on an put into the hands of my young nephews for deer hunting.
The 6mm Rem has been my longtime favorite. I’ve offered this point before but it doesn’t seem to have gone much of anywhere. When looking at the ballistics, using longer, heavier bullets, the 6mm Rem runs pretty much side by side with the 6mm Creedmoor. My 6mm Rem uses a 7 1/2” twist barrel, like the CM would and I can’t really tell any difference in the two. Factory ammo offerings aside, I don’t see much difference in the two. Am I missing anything?
The 6mm Rem has been my longtime favorite. I’ve offered this point before but it doesn’t seem to have gone much of anywhere. When looking at the ballistics, using longer, heavier bullets, the 6mm Rem runs pretty much side by side with the 6mm Creedmoor. My 6mm Rem uses a 7 1/2” twist barrel, like the CM would and I can’t really tell any difference in the two. Factory ammo offerings aside, I don’t see much difference in the two. Am I missing anything?
Action length.
The Creedmoor does all of it through a true short action.
I used to really long for a short action as they were pretty scarce in Left hand configuration. Now that they are more available it is sort of like whats the big deal? Any advantages are almost moot. A couple ounces lighter, a half inch shorter, stiffer action which is impossible to tell with a hunting rifle.
I am tempted by the 6x47L due to it's accuracy reputation but will just stick with my 243s and 6mms for now. But I think there is no such thing as a bad 6mm from the Lee Navy to the 240 Weatherby and everything in between. A 6BR would be nice to as a sort of minimal deer cartridge and good for varmints due to barrel life.
The 6mm Rem has been my longtime favorite. I’ve offered this point before but it doesn’t seem to have gone much of anywhere. When looking at the ballistics, using longer, heavier bullets, the 6mm Rem runs pretty much side by side with the 6mm Creedmoor. My 6mm Rem uses a 7 1/2” twist barrel, like the CM would and I can’t really tell any difference in the two. Factory ammo offerings aside, I don’t see much difference in the two. Am I missing anything?
You didn't miss anything, but Remington missed the boat when they introduced the .244 originally, and according to the 1964 Gun Digest I just bought, still came up a bit short when they "fixed" it as the 6mm. A 3" "short" action with a fast-twist barrel probably would make it all better, but I don't see the point now with the Creed available. Fans like you can do whatever floats their boat of course. Commercially, it's game over.
Somebody here said Weatherby is selling a fast-twist .240, which ought to liven things up a bit for those who don't reload (reladers would likely have a 6mm/06 or 6mm/.284). I'll settle for the smaller capacity ones and longer barrel life.
Cannot believe Big Stick hasn't come along with his brilliance to inform everyone how stupid we are. Then we get to read (again) how great his yellow taped trout stream rifles are and how far off the mark everyone else. Oh, and then followed up with his idiotic signature lines. What a sad human being.
Dang you guys...you got me all stirred up again...gotta get myself another 240 Weatherby. I'm going to try a Vanguard this time. I still have my dies, bullets, and a double handful of once fired cases. Spare scope sitting on the shelf. I figure since I got my 300WM shooting well, I'll get this smaller caliber for range/coyotes and hopefully some antelope/deer/hogs.
My current favorite 6mm is the 6X45. I have an AR with a 20" Black Hole Weaponry barrel on it that is a great coyote or deer gun. I was able to get a very good deal on a bunch (10 boxes) of the now discontinued 80 grain Sierra SSP (single-shot pistol) bullets. They shoot great out of the AR, I am able to get good velocity with them and they perform very well on game. When those are gone, I won't hesitate to use the 90 grain Nosler BTs or the 92 grain Cavity Back MKZs. For the type of hunting that I do (mostly small plot or field corners for meat deer), it is just about the perfect round. Add a suppressor and I can watch the bullet impact through the scope.
I like it so much that I just picked up a Remington SPS Varmint in .223 for cheap with the intention of making it into a lightweight 6X45 repeater that I can throw the suppressor on an put into the hands of my young nephews for deer hunting.
Excellent choice. I have owned a few 6mms, but all I have left is one 243 and two 6x45s. The 6x45mm may not be the best choice for plains hunting - but then, neither is a 30-30. Still, for 200 yds in, it is the bee's knees.
I have managed two deer and a couple dozen coyotes with this cartridge. It's accurate and easy to handle. It doesn't burn much powder and cases are very cheap. I used Speer 85 gr. BTs, but am going to "go big" and try a 90 gr. Speer.
I had a few 303 based cartridges, but took pity on the Ackley crowd. I didn't want to embarrass them. Especially the 6mm/30-30 Ack Imp guys. Although that is a nice cartridge!
I like that the 6x45mm is low pressure, inexpensive to load, and has sufficient energy for my needs. It's not a shoulder thumper either. IOW, I used the proper tool for the proper job.
Plains or LD shooters might need large containers, but the under 300 yd crowd doesn't. Try to convince them of that though.
i own a few 243 Win.`s and 6mm-284`s all shoot well , but when it comes to bench rest shooting its tough to beat 6BR . 6 BR`s just shoot well and 6BR`S shoot a long ways out easy too ,with very little recoil.
I have a Ruger mini 14 at Accuracy Systems becoming a 6x45. I thought it might make a great calling rifle. I've rounded up lots of brass and different bullets. I'll be interested to run a side by side comparison with my 6x222 with all the same bullets.
That sounds like a great idea, and lots of fun too!
I've used once fired military brass and factory brass, but the mil brass is definitely the way to go. Completely processed brass that is, so the only thing you have to do is widen the neck.
I have a lot of military brass, some processed, some not. I did buy 100 rounds of Lapua match just to see how accurate their system is. I have my bench rest brass catcher to save the good stuff. I built it back when I was playing with a 401 Winchester and a 25 Remington.
I only bought 100 of them. I thought I'd find a good, accurate load in some factory brass. I have quite a bit of Remington and Winchester as well as the military brass. Then see if there is any noticeable accuracy difference between the Lapua, factory WinRem, and military. The rifle coming back will have a medium heavy 24" barrel and is supposed to shoot sub MOA according to Accuracy Systems claims. For calling I'll use the military brass. I'd be so worried about that expensive Lapua brass hitting the ground, I'd never be able to make any follow up shots.
6 XC for now. Very wide flat tune node from 39.5-41.5g of H4350 using 105-107g bullets...tiny, tiny groups. Tubb is making some very, very tough brass($69 per hundred)
115g at 3050.
R#17 jacks speeds up 100 fps.
I use 7 1/2 in the Small primer brass and Fed 210's in the large rifle brass.
Also made brass from 308 brass, still shot small groups 2's and smaller, neck trim and turn are involved
Finishing up a 6 BRA now.
The 6 Dasher and 6 BRX produce 243 Velocities with 10+g less powder.
The 6x47 Lapua is a hands down winner, NO down side.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/NGQZtUU.jpg)
I didn't want to embarrass them. Especially the 6mm/30-30 Ack Imp guys. Although that is a nice cartridge!![[Linked Image from photos.smugmug.com]](https://photos.smugmug.com/Sample-Gallery/i-x8Lbrnw/0/986a7e76/L/2013-11-11%2006.05.00-L.jpg)