So I just recently came upon a 1960 vintage Marlin 336 in .35 Remington, as I posted in the Marlin 336 forum the other day. Gun is pristine, 3 minor scratches in the wood and blueing is like 98%. Doesn't look like it was hardly used, and how much can a eastern woods rifle be shot, I mean sight in in, take a few shots each year you hunt to make sure it held zero, and hopefully get a shot or 2 at a deer. The rifle looks more like it sat for years in a closet.

So I figured to give it a thorough cleaning today, and coincidentally, my son gave me an early Christmas present of a Teslong borescope.

First 3 patches on the top left are a dry patch to push the loose crud out, and then 2 soaked in Hoppes #9. Let it sit for 20 minutes, then ten strokes with the bore brush soaked in the same, and sit for another 20 minutes. then the lower left 3 patches and it looks decent. A few dry patches, then the first patch on the right, soaked in Shooters Choice and let it sit in the barrel for 20 minutes, followed by 20 strokes in & out with the bore brush followed by 3 wet patches with the Shooters Choice, and I can't find a bit of dirt or "blue" on the last patch so I say to myself, this bore is immaculate, there isn't any copper in there.


So I figured I'd prove to myself how well I can clean a gun and got the borescope out and got it working and holy chit, I'd have never believed there could be any copper in that bore and I was WRONG again, LMAO.



Plenty of copper in there, despite the fact I'm sure the gun has a low round count.
So my question is, is it that Shooters Choice not a strong enough copper remover and I need something stronger like Montana Extreme, or is it going to require JB bore paste to get this copper out?

That looks like rust.

Great image with the Teslong!

Teslong Borescope

Does it shoot poorly? Why is it essential to have every nano-ounce of copper out of the bore?

Is it? Not sure as I never used a bore scope before. Opinions welcome.

That's what I thought

Rust or grease.

Copper is almost always oxidized, unless it’s really fresh.

Yes rust but not that bad

Have not shot it yet PA, I just got the gun the other day.


Yes, not to bad. I used a nylon brush as Shooters Choice tends to eat up phosphor bronze brushes quickly.
I should be able to get it out with a phosphor bronze brush soaked in Kroil.

And the borescope will let me know, I was surprised how nice of a picture it gets you, a lot of borescope for the price.

Looks like rust to me.

I have the Teslong and agree. Did you use the app and your phone, or your computer?

Thanks,

Jason

Another rust vote here.

The picture looks nice.

I just plugged the usb connector into my laptop with Windows 10 per their instructions and clicked on "camera" and there it was, pretty easy.

Is this the one you have?

Teslong Borescope

Sometimes, being obvious really is bliss.

For really picky (anal) people like me., maybe it is better to simply believe there are no problems instead of looking with a magnifier for any possible imperfections. lol

That’s the one.

Shoot it a while, then clean it. If it's still there, a little lapping might help. I wouldn't worry too much if it shoots well. Just keep it cleaned and oil it for storage.

Yep, rust ... cooper typically looks like long streaks along the bore and more gold colored.

I would use some JB bore paste on it to see if it cleans up a bit, then hit it with hoppes and then oil... and shoot it - then look at it again to see how it reacted.

My guess is the top of the lands will clean pretty quickly, but the grooves have machinging marks and probably won’t clean up all that well at first.

tag

I would really go after it with JB or even 0000 steel wool + JB. I would also consider Tubbs Final finish or other fire lap. That would knock the rust out and smooth up those tool marks. I real hand lapping wouldn't hurt either but risky doing it from the muzzle end with out a bore guide so that is out.

But if it shoots why worry? On an iron sighted lever gun if I can bang away standing with no rest and keep everything in the black I consider it good.

Soak it in Kroil oil for 2-4 hrs then brush and patch. JB would be a last resort.

One of the advantages of the 336 is that the bolt can be pulled and the bore worked from the action side, just like a bolt action. It's pretty simple to do actually. But the Tubbs final finish isn't a bad way to go either. A lot easier to do than hand lapping.

If it's rust there is a good product for that called EvapoRust, but not without some risk since it will remove blueing as well. Some simple preventive measures and care would prevent that.

I just got a Teslong too.It is a great tool and well worth having one especially if you have a bunch of rifles.I found one of my rifles is about toast.Running those hot loads on a 300 Win Mag will really do some damage.Another rifle has a lot of grooves the last two inches of the barrel.Waiting to hear back from the warranty center on that one.Some of the other rifles have quite a bit of copper.I cleaned those up rather quickly with JB paste on a patch wrapped around a brush.They cleaned up nice with no copper now.Another thing I noticed was how nice the throats on my 308's and 30-06's looked compared to my 7mags and 300 mags.Burning around 70-80grs of powder sure is a lot harder on the throats of those magnum rifles.The 308's and 30-06's with about the same amount of rounds,throats are still beautiful with no erosion.That 336 would clean up quick with JB paste.Some of mine were way worse than that.

How does it shoot?

Now that you have a borescope I would give the JB Compound treatment and then scope it again and see what the results are.

WipeOut, PatchOut, or Montana Xtreme work a lot faster than the Shooters Choice I used for years

This ^^^^^^

The other thing you might do is install Dyna Bore-Coat. Have seen it help older bores pretty pitted from the days of corrosive primers, even with cast bullets.

Which Teslong did you get, the semi-rigid cable type or the new rigid rod type? The rod unit looks like a winner.
Teslong bore scope

This is some of the things I found in my rifles
Copper


300 Win Mag throat erosion



300WSM with no freebore showing carbon build up or erosion right up to where the leads start.I wonder if this one could be throated a little longer and clean up this problem


7mag after about a hundred rounds is already showing some burn


PacNor Barrel

That is rust in the Marlin barrel, not bad either.

Two products I like better than JB that I have used for 30 years:

a. Montana Extreme copper cream:
https://www.amazon.com/Montana-X-Treme-Copper-Cream-Bottle/dp/B008P8D2KO

Go ahead and get several bottles.

b. if the bore is very badly carbon or copper fouled, the next step up in very mild abrasive is:

Flitz bore cleaner

https://www.amazon.com/Flitz-Gun-Bore-Cleaner-Bottle/dp/B005OSOMKM/ref=sr_1_3?crid=2YWCKD3GP5IYD&dchild=1&keywords=flitz+bore+cleaner&qid=1577241210&sprefix=Flitz+bore+cleaner%2Caps%2C159&sr=8-3

For a penetrating oil that I have had better luck with than Kroil, try a product called Free All, you will become a True Believer real quick!

https://www.amazon.com/Gasoila-Free...s=Free+All&qid=1577241300&sr=8-2

Why do you like Copper Cream better than JB Compound?

That is some pretty copper. Nice and even too.

I have a friend with a Hawkeye and have had the opportunity to look down a number of bbls recently, including my own. He says almost all barrels will start showing some crackling with a few hundreds rounds or so.

Bald hunter,

Go look at the PTG (Pacific Tool and Gauge) Uni-throater kit, you can use it to touch up that no freebore throat.

And that cooper plated barrel - WOW...

Yes, looking into it now, I just put in an order to Midsouth for the needed stuff, and have Dyna Bore-Coat in the frig. Bore is really not to bad for a 59 year old gun.

Steve,
I got the one without the rod, the semi rigid cable.

This I thought was pretty neat too. This is the gas port hole in the barrel of my 7400 Jamomatic(which functions flawlessly by the way). The hole must have slightly rough edges, as you can see some fuzz from the patches that caught on the edge.

Those are some good images from a $50 borescope.
Never figured my uses would justify getting one, starting to rethink that.

For a $50 borescope I'm impressed with the Teslong.It really opened my eyes.It's great for checking wear and fouling for sure.I had a guy at the range tell me,"keep the velocity under 3000fps and the barrel will last a long time".After checking my 308's and 30-06's and comparing them to my magnums,I think he may be right.

One thing about having that much copper in the bore - stick with one kind of bullet, different types of copper don’t always blend well, and you end up with super nasty build up.

Same here. It didn't bother me to spend the money for the bore scope, I figured I clean the guns thoroughly each time I use them and the patches come out clean when I'm done so it's an extra gadget I just don't want to be bothered with. And I don't go through a lot of ammo when I do shoot, I'm basically just an eastern deer hunter. Well some of the stuff I found definitely surprised me, even on a few guns that are new unfired(and I cleaned).

I've only shot 150gr Nosler Ballistic Tips and just a few 160gr Accubonds.Rifle shoots really well and I keep it clean,so I thought.It has around a hundred rounds or so through it now.It's going to get a little JB paste and that should clean it right up.

I really like my Teslong, saved me from a rifle that I was about to buy, the Teslong let me look at the bore. Leade was toast. an old Schultz and Larson in 7X61. Too many hot loads I guess. $47 is what I paid, very cheap at that price.

Before you get to worked up shoot it I'll bet it shoots just fine.

Copper is gone after using JB Bore Paste and Kroil.Hard to get good detailed pictures with the Teslong if the bore is really clean and shiny.You get a lot of reflection,but you can still see good.
Before


After

I've occasionally bought new rifles on line that had some surface rust, evidently from being in a box without oil for a long time. I would soak it with "Liquid Wrench" or "Navel Jelly" to clean out the rust.

Absolutely WOW. Those images are fantastic.

A decent borescope for < $50! Reminds me of when the Shooting Chrony first became available.

That has been exactly the same as my results when using JB, and it gets rid of the hard caked-on carbon fouling as well. I only use nylon brushes to wrap the patch around too.

Now I can see why the copper pattern runs down the lands. It may be that little bit of roughness on the edges of the lands. That looks like a good barrel and one that has been lapped but maybe they didn't lap it thoroughly enough. This is the reason I am hesitant to get a bore scope, I would obsess over minutiae.

This is a Remington 700 Stainless Steel 7mag Long Range barrel.It shoots really good and I can see why.It's a very good barrel for a factory rifle.

I must have one of these scopes. Ordered. Pretty sure I’ll have to have some perfectly acceptable targets shot by my rifles right next to them while checking things out however, just to maintain proper perspective about flaws I’m sure to see.

The biggest disappointment of most new bore-scope owners is usually the inability to judge a barrel's potential accuracy from the view. You'll finding many rough-looking barrels, whether due to machining, wear or corrosion, that shoot pretty well or even great--and some great-looking bores that don't shoot very well at all.

I've had a bore-scope for at least 15 years now, and the two biggest kind of help it has provided are checking out how well various cleaning products work, and the progress made when shooting "bore-lapping" bullets to eliminate the roughness of an eroded throat.

Whether it's rust or copper in the Marlin one of the bore foams should knock it out in short order.

I cleaned a friends .303 Smelly one time, back when Barnes CR10 came out ( gosh, 25yrs ago or so?) anyhow. I kept getting dirty patches, then finally, orange rust. The entire bore was rusty. The lands were very prominent though. I took it and some Federal Blue Box 150gr and after about 10 fouling shots, it started tightening up its groups. Halfway through the 2nd box it finally began to shoot way, way under an inch!!! ha I had one, 3 shot cloverleaf! I told him to keep using it, and don't worry about it. I shot some corrosive surplus 8x57 in a battlefield pick up Nazi '98 Mauser. It too had a rusty bore, and shot like a dream, ha! I think rust bothers more "Drill Sgts" more than most hunters!

Exactly.

Watching wear progress or checking cleanliness is a good thing & a bore scope can be handy. A lot of views at a lot of different bore conditions will be needed, but it's still guessing as opposed to shooting.

When the Hawkeye was first coming on the scene someone had one at the Supershoot one year & a friend of mine let them check his PPC. They said his barrel was totaled.

He won a yardage or the agg that year with that barrel.

I'm not concerned with the accuracy of this gun, or the others, this was my first experience with a borescope and wasn't sure what to expect. I would definitely have to shoot it or any other gun to draw such a conclusion as to accuracy.

I would say what I'm disappointed in is my abilty to clean a barrel that I thought I had cleaned immaculate. It has opened my eyes to the fact that I need a stronger copper remover on some of my others guns and that JB Bore Paste would be necessary in some cases. I even found copper in 2 new unfired guns that I had cleaned with Shooters Choice.

I have used a borescope many times. We had multiple in our shop. I didn't own any of those so lost access once I retired.

Based on this thread, I ordered one of the Teslong borescopes. It arrived today and I tried it out.

I have to say, for the price, I am very impressed. Well worth the money.

Out of curiosity, did it come in a carrying case? If it did, what are the dimensions of the case?

The reason I ask is that I received notification from Teslong a month or two ago that they advise not using the case that came with the "early versions" of the borescope because it causes a breakdown of some kind in the cable...the case that came with them is too small and necessitates winding the cable up too tight, causing the breakage. Unfortunately, I do not know whether my borescope was one of those shipped with a case that was too small, so I am curious as to the dimensions of the case they are shipping with the borescope these days.

Thanks.

Mine the semi rigid model was in a cardboard box (9x9) Works well enough for storage.

Got mine 3-4 months ago, came in a zippered, 5 3/4 x 7" case. Don't know if this is the too small case or not.

Mine came in a cardboard box, probably the same as smithrjd. The directions advise not coiling the scope cable tightly.

Hit Amazon today, got one on the way.

Really curious to see how much gator skin I have created. And it will be good to know when the barrel really is clean enough to apply UBC.

Installation was simple. I use a Mac. I plugged it in, opened the "Photo Booth" program (always wondered what that program was for) and it was on.

Same here with windows 10.Just plugged into usb,went to camera and it was there.

I contacted the folks at Teslong to find out about identifying the "early model" and the storage case that came with it. Here is the response:

Thanks for contacting us.
The "early version" is packaged in a black small case.
The "current verion” is package in a bigger cardbord box.
I guess yours is "early version".
Thank your feedback.
We will update these information on website.
Don't hesitate to contact us if you look further information.

Yep. I've spend $50 on far less useful things. That's for sure.

You might get most of the rust out doing this but you will never touch the tooling marks. If you don't get those out before it is rifled, they are permanent.

I bought one as well. More than a thousand rounds out of my 30-06 and the barrel/throat looks new. I looked at my 257 wby and wanted to start crying.............Although it still shoots great but the Pac Nor throat looks like Gator hide for sure. Wonder if the Tubbs TMS would help?

I got mine earlier in the week and have spent the last couple nights checking things out. Lot's of interesting stuff to be learned in there. For example, I've learned a treasured '06 has a totally pitted barrel. Looking down it you'd never now, and if left to guess by looking at what the Teslong shows I'd never even consider buying the gun. But yet it's a consistent .75-1.25" rifle for four shot groups with multiple loads. I have no idea if the gun was pitted when I bought it, or if I suck at basic care. After getting it totally cleaned up (now I know when we reach that point!) I'll DBC it and keep killing things.

I used to think a "shiny" bore and a clean patch was clean and rust free until I got the Teslong.

Do you guys prefer the angle mirror or circular view without it?

If I had to have it only one way I'd definitely go with the angled view.

I thought that was why custom barrels were lapped was to remove tooling marks. Do they lap the barrels before they rifle them?

Lapping does a couple of things.

First it does reduce tool marks - BUT more importantly they make sure the barrel is smooth in terms of how the bullet passes through it, if the bore gets lose as the bullet passed down it and then gets tight again it’s won’t shoot worth beans.

This, but clean while the barrel is still warm to hot - seems much more crud will release when some heat is involved.
JMHO/E

I think I lapped a couple of 5.56 NATO bores back in the day with a few thousand rounds. I cleaned the chamber and BCG religiously and never recall cleaning a bore beyond one patch pass with solvent or oil. Always shot minute of zip.

OK... what should one be looking for with a Bore scope besides copper and scratches ?

How’s about delamination of DBC, starting 7” in front of the throat.



Closer look



8”


9”

Swifty, we all know, you hate Dyna Bore Coat, we all get it, enough already !!!!!

Borescopes! The barrelmakers best friend and barrel salesman.

A bore scope will keep you up at night too.