Guys,
I have been contemplating buying a DG gun for North American game but being a small man and almost 60 years old, I doubt the wisdom of a .375 H&H or .375 Ruger for a little old guy like me due to the weight and size of the rifles. Would I be under gunned with a 350 Rem Mag in a 673 guide gun? All opinions welcome!

Flower Child

I once shot an elephant in my pajamas.... How he got in my pajamas I do not know?!!! -Groucho Marx-

When I was deciding on which cartridge to rechamber/rebore my 98 Mauser to,.338-06,35 Whelen(.350 Rem),or 9.3x62mm,the general consensus was that I'd never notice a difference in the field between them and that they were all GOOD for BIG game. I'd say you'd be ok with that set-up. I will say that the Rem Model 600 in .350 Rem Mag was known for it's substantial recoil so it would be good if you could try a 673 out before buying.

The .338-06 or the 9,3x62 would be my choice.

I've used a Rem 673 on black bear with good results and I like it. I don't care much for the shark fin front sight as it's visible in the 2x7 scope I mounted. It's handy in a blind, on horseback, and is easy to carry. It's accurate with 225 gr Swift A-Frames. The magazine is short so I had difficulty with long for weight bullets like the TSXs and Noslers.

Mine has a good recoil pad and I don't remember recoil being an issue. But, I don't have a problem with 375 H&H or 416 Rem in hunting situations.

Big bears in AK? I think the 350 Rem is a fine cartridge and underrated with a good bullet. However I would take issue with 673 Guide Gun for aesthetics and it's weight (you mentioned not wanting too much weight). Instead I would look very hard at the various Rem model 7s available in that cartridge.

The 9.3x62 would be another very good choice.

A CDL Model 7 in 350 Remington mag would be a better choice I think. Of course thats my opinion, yours is the most important.

Guess I have a couple of thoughts. First off I have no doubt the 350 Rem would do the trick for you and if I were to build one I'd copy Mtn Htr's rig.

Secondly, a intelligently built 375 should be of no big concern for anyone willing to pony up and practice a bit. Known more than a few slight and quirky people (women...grin) who had no issues with the round. So, I'd encourage you to reconsider it as an option if the round intrigues you.

As for NA/DG I can only assume that you're talking about brownies right? One thing to consider is that your basic 06 will do you just fine with a 200 Nozler.

Good luck in your decision.

Dober

(you might do well to consider the idea of a 375 Ruger M77 and stick it in a different handle than the Hogue (I hear a factory take off handle works just fine)

Th .350 Rem. Mag. will do just fine for the stated purpose. As will any of the other rounds mentioned.

Recoil is easily dealt with by stock ergonomics, sensible rifle weight and then, most important, practice.

Handle rifles, shoot them and then decide, would be my take.

I took this route:



Works. 9,3x64 286 grains TSX @ 2450 fps out of 22" barrel.

As an aside, this pigued my curiosity.



Gentlemen, may I request a few pictures or a link, if this rifle has been discussed?

DG, like Brown bear? Your (required) guide will be carrying the big iron, just in case. Bring your 308 or 30'06 and for goodness sake be competent with it. Shoot hundreds of practice shots offhand and from shooting sticks,dressed in your gear with and without raingear. There friend, is where you should invest your efforts. JMHO Bill

the 350 will do anything that needs being done in ak. guid gun or mod. 7. my mod 600 is great gun and loves the nosler factory 225 load. loud? yes!!!!!!! det her done Y E S ! great pick. D O M I T !

I just rebarreled a Savage 110 to 338-06 A-Square as a winter project. That'll be my DGR until I build myself a 9.3x62. It shoots nicely w/ 200 gr Interlocks and is very manageable, even from the bench.

The problem with any of the three of these cartridges is the lack of availability of ammo when you're "out and about," if you were to become separated from your handloads. As much as I hate to say it as a lover of the '06 version, the 338 Win Mag has all three beat on this point.

The reason I went w/ the 338'06 A-Square over the Whelen (350 Rem Mag ballistic twin) and the 9.3x62 was the wider availability of bullets. You can get bullets from 160-300 grains in 338 cal, while the 35 is more limited and the 9.3 narrower still.

At the end of the day the fact of the matter is either of those three would be great for the stated purpose.

Good luck; keep us posted on your decision!

CMG-

That is a sweet rig! Can you give us the blueprint?

efw,

thank you, Sir.

Action: DWM 98 (1909 Argentine)
Barrel: Heym 560 mm (22")
Chambered: 9,3x64 Brenneke
Stock: Boberg Laminate Blank, fit and finish "cmg"
Frontsight: Remington Factory Post
Rearsight: cmg "sturdy" Ghost
Finish on all metal parts: mangan phospahate
Load: 286 gr. Barnes TSX @2450 fps (chronographed)





The rifle has seen Prince William Sound, AK 2007, Talkeetnas AK 2008. It has "brownie points".

Thanks for taking an interest.

Guys,
First let me congratulate CMG on a beautiful and obviously very nicely executed DG rifle. Second I am leaning towards achieving my DG gun in the smallest package possible as larger rifles such as my Remington .264 Win Mag Sendero SFII are okay for stalking a few miles but not for covering a lot of territory in a hurry. Plus the barrels stick up like an antenna on me saying here I am if I move in on a stalk. In my view they are great for hunting Mule Deer in Utah or Elk in Wyoming where the distance to the target is generally bordering on the extreme but not so great for crawling around in Alaska looking to get a really great once in a lifetime big bear. Hopefully I have learned a few things about this from reading what you guys and the Alaska folks say about that place and my choice of rifle will enable this old man to keep up with his guide both in distance and duration in that harsh environment. Lastly, I want to be able to pack enough ammo so that I can get in enough shooting to clue my guide as to how well or poorly I shoot in those conditions and to re zero the rifle in case of rough handling by bagage handlers. Also, enough ammo that I feel semi comfortable being in a wilderness with no means of resupply handy (50 rds). This is why the Remington 673 in 350 Rem Mag looked promising. Yeah it looks like a Buck Rogers rifle but to me function / suitability rate more than good looks and I don't want to be bringing either a fine custom job that I don't want to scratch or a beater that has seen enough use that my guide wonders if it will stay together long enough to shoot. So I guess maybe the 350 Remington Magnum cartridge is okay but maybe my choice of rifle could be better is the general consensus of opinion. Maybe a model 7 Remington? But if that is the case what would really be the difference between the two other than looks and price? I am confused a bit about that. Can someone clue me in? By the way, I want to thank everyone who has expressed an opinion on this thread as each of you has contributed towards refining my thinking on this subject and given me options that have worked in your experience to seriously consider. Thank you all and please feel free to comment further as this is stilll not a done deal even though I got to shoot the Remington 673 loudenboomer one of the guys in our shooting club has and liked it very much. Time will tell if other alternatives prove better choices as I am going to attempt to find / shoot the other rifle / cartridges suggested. Thanks.

Flower Child

I once shot an elephant in my pajamas.....How he got in my pajamas I don't know?!!! -Groucho Marx-

Hey FC,
I'm GLAD you got to shoot the rifle your considering. That's the ONLY way to find out what you really think about one. My opinion is that you shot it,you liked it,get it. As far as looks go? Your not taking it to the prom!

FC,

first of, please let me apologize. I did not mean to 'hijack' your thread. I posted the pics just for illustration of my take for the application.

From your last post, your intentions become clearer. To me, taking all that into consideration, one rifle comes to mind:

Ruger Hawkeye in .35 Whelen - either woodstocked or plastic.

Couple that with an Leupold 1,75-6x32 or 2-7x36 or ... in the factory Ruger rings and you have a quite affordable bear Rifle.

The rugers have a very good reputation amoung bear guides.

The money you safed can go into rifle break in and practise shooting and that it should.

.35 Whelen is a plenty powerfull cartridge of modest recoil and readily available in factory loadad form or in reloading supplies.

Just some thoughts.

The only DG that I've used the .350 Remington Mag on was one inland grizzly and two large black bear over bait in Canada. It worked well. I took a couple of bull elk with that rifle/round as well (Remington Model 7). My rifle really liked Nosler Partitions loaded to the max. As I recall, I was getting 2,700 fps from the 225 grain. The 250s didn't perform quite so well.

My personal preference in a moderate recoiling, yet reasonably light-weight weapon to be used on creatures that may bite back or otherwise do you harm, is the 9.3x62 Mauser. That said, my 9.3 is not quite as comfortable to pack around all day as my Model 7 was.

I'm also a big fan of the .375s and the Ruger Alaskan is a handy rifle, but the .350 Rem will do what you need done.

For a custom, consider the Win 70 in a WSM for an action. A rebarrel and follower swap will get you there.




Win 70, S/A, CM, KG GunKote
WSM S/A converted for 350RM, Featherweight Alloy TG, Williams Extractor
350RM, 12 twist #2 SS PacNor at 21.5", blueprinted & rebarreled by Truman Wilson, Delta CO.
Re-contoured factory floorplate.
Bansner stock, bobbed and pillar bedded, Polane T paint
Leupold 4X, Leupold DD mounts

7.5lbs scoped

MtnHtr

I have both a Remington 673 in .350 RM and a M98 in 9.3x62. The 98 has a 25.5" tube, so the two rifle are very different, in terms of ergonomics. My 673 has had the rib removed professionally by the previous owner; I like the modification very much.

I've only shot one head of game with either rifle (a pig with the 9.3), but I hope to use the 673 in the next couple of weeks on some more wild pigs. FWIW, I really like the 673. It is one of those rifles that just **feels** good. I can't speak to performance on brown bears, but both rifles and cartridges have reasonably moderate recoil and I think that you'll be satisfied with either. There are more components available in .358 caliber than there are in .366 caliber. If you're willing to wait for mail-order, it's not really a problem.

MH,

that is one serious looking rifle.
I like the fixed scope touch.

Thanks for posting.

Sounds like shot placement is the first issue and having enough gun is also important. If you have a guide, then they can give you what they prefer you use. Most have had a lot more experience than I have..lol I think the 9.3 x 62 is the ticket, but that being said..More than one way to skin a cat..

The "little" 350 M-600 was well likes by many Alaskan bear guides as it was quite effective. Many guides also kept them in camp as loaners as they were light and powerful. Andy Runyon swore by his on Kodiak Island.
I had a Japanese lady client who used a Remington M-700 in 350 to take a large B&C brown bear with a single shot. Being unable to return to Japan with the rifle she left it with me and I used it as a camp loaner for years and my daughter carried it a lot as well.

I eventually traded the rifle to a client for the simple reason that it was difficult to seat many of the newer bullets I wanted to use because of it's short magazine box.

I do like my 350 rem mag.
It is a long action with a 600 barrel screwed in and a Clifton bipod stock.{no longer made}
I seat out with the 250's and get up into 358 Norma specs.
All up with the weaver K4...8 1/2 lbs.
I'd say 'go for it'

Wes in AZ

Flower_Child,

The reason I mentioned the model 7 over the 673 is one, you mentioned it, the rib and shark fin front sight but that can be fixed or if you don't mind, it's a non-issue. But the model seven is lighter and that's an issue with you and, I agree, it's an issue with me too. Strolling around AK's spongy bear grounds can be taxing and I would strongly consider weight.

All the cartridges mentioned here will do the job I just happen to have a particular liking for the sqwat, little 350 having owned a model 660 years ago that I wish I still had. Even as a lefty, I'm tempted to order a model 7 in that chambering again.

The 35 Whelan is ballistically the same but you'll have to struggle a bit to get it to the weight and handiness of a model 7 once it's all up and ready to go. I

Flower Child...........Interesting dilemma you have there.

I went onto the Remy site to see what the OAL and weight specs were for the 350 Remy mag model you originally had in mind. Unless I`m missing something, I couldn`t find that particular model on the site. so I am not familiar with its OAL and weight specs.

In looking at the Remy 7 CDL in the 350 Remy mag, I read that its OAL is 41 1/4" weighing 7 3/8 lbs with a 20" barrel.

Well! Shorter, handier and very potent rifles just happen to be my favorites, even though I`m a fairly large guy at 6'3" and 240 lbs. I like shorter, handier, more manuverable, fast to shoulder, potent, and easy to carry rifles.

In comparing the above Model 7`s size specs, I find it somewhat interesting that my 375 Ruger Alaskan is a 1/2 inch shorter and weighs about a 1/2 lb more. The Alaskan is 40 3/4" long and weighs 8 lbs with a 20" barrel. With my 1.5-5x20 VX111 on it, it weighs in at 8 3/4 lbs. For a DGR, I wouldn`t go too light a rifle or you`ll have more recoil.

Like any cartridge though, the 375 Ruger can be loaded down a bit and still offer more than enough power for any N/A DG. And if you choose to really load it up, it`ll equal and may slightly exceed 24" to 25" 375 H&H velocities from its 20" barrel.

I have fired the wood stocked 375 Ruger African from the bench for a recoil comparison using the same ammo and found that the Hogue stock really seems to reduce or absorb the recoil better. The Hogue stock for me anyway, is no problem since I have large hands to handle the larger palm swell and pistol grip. That however, may be an issue with you. The stock can be changed as one or two Alaskan owners on here have done.

For DG, the Ruger Alaskan is a very good size, a great handler, easy to carry and balances very well. And man I`ll tell ya, it is very accurate. It is not the best looking rifle and wasn`t designed for looks. It is a no-nonsense, functional, durable, all weather, go anywhere type of rifle, that will certainly do anything you want it to.

The other choices mentioned are certainly worth considering. But for the Alaskan`s OAL, size and barrel length, it is a more potent rifle. The 260 & 270 grainers from the Ruger, do offer 180 gr 30-06 trajectories should you have a craving to use it for some longer ranged elk hunting too.

Good luck! Pick a good one!!

Wow Guys!
Thank you all for the outstanding response to my question! Did you guys see MTN HUNTER's & WAS21's rifles? Unbelieveable! Really Nice! I really like them both. I guess, for me, since I am not a gunsmith they are like MT Everest. Unobtainable. However, the Remington 673 short action is available for $600.00 USD w/2 boxes of ammunition and is unfired NIB. It weighs in as close as I can measure at 7.0 Lbs., sports a 22 inch barrel, and overall is 41 inches long. The annoying point is it looks like a Buck Rogers rifle but outside of the looks, this rifle feels like it was custom taylored for me dimensionally. Also, the ammo is small enough that I feel I can carry enough for my all my purposes. This and the Buck Rogers gun has a real working recoil pad that keeps this little cannon from hurting my shoulder. All that said, I still haven't shot the 9.3 x 62 or the 35 Whelen and I was going to wait a while longer since the 673 Remington is waiting for me if I want it. I am tempted to just go ahead and buy it as my young friend's mother could sure use the money and I can always play around with it even if it isn't the DG gun I am looking for. What do y'all think? Should I take the chance and buy it or pass?

Flower Child

I once shot an elephant in my pajamas....How it got in my pajamas I do not know?!!! -Groucho Marx-

Not to beat a dead horse, but I really like mine. Also, as I mentioned earlier, it's possible to have the Rogers Rib removed; then it looks like a normal rifle.

I seem to always think of more after a previous post.

If you want to keep your rifle short, light and as easy carrying as possible as you pointed out, then take a real good look at the Ruger Frontier M77 Mk2 target grey stainless chambered in the 358 Win.

If you`re gonna do alot of hiking, hunting in brush, in thicker stuff, this rifle for its size is an ideal choice. The muzzle will probably be level or below the top of your head when the rifle is slinged on your shoulder.

I have one in a 300 WSM which is the same size. Carry and handle this one for awhile, you might take it home. Wonderful to hunt with and to carry around.

6 3/4 lbs; 35.5" OAL; 16.5" barrel and not too far behind the 350 Rem Mag in performance. Probably available on Gunbroker.

The .350 Remington might be a good deer and bear dual purpose rife if you want to go light weight. The 9.3X62 is my choice for a slightly heavier rifle. Either makes a nice general purpose rig. I have found that Hornady, Nosler, and Speer 9.3 bullets fairly easy to find.

I'm a fan of the .350 so I'll admit bias. I own 3 right now and the most comfortable all the way around is the 673. I've cleaned the barrel on mine, the fin is gone the rib and it makes a quite handsome rifle. It's basically a mdl 7 action with the laminate stock and a bit heavier barrel...adding just a tad of weight in all the right places. Put enough TAC under a 250 pt to go 2525 and anything in NA is going to be concerned. Flatten it out a bit? Stoke a 200gr most anything with 59 gr of 4895 and mine gets 2870 fps. Split the difference with a 225 if thats your bag....it just plain works.

Scott

FC;

There's nothing in NA that can't be cleanly taken with a well-loaded 350 RM, and I prefer a 22" barrel. I've owned two: The 700 Classic and the 673.

Ballistics equal a 338WM with same wt. bullets and a 20" tube. I've owned one of those also.

I liked my 673 as it was fast and very, very accurate. I mean, my last trip to the range shooting 250-grain GS's (It loved those Grand Slams, and they were shorter than the Partitions, Noslers, etc, and didn't batter in the box)at **** (unmentionable)fps, they grouped in one ragged hole at exactly +3" DOC.

It is no lightweight though... mine with a 2 - 7 X32 Elite came in at 9 lbs. That helps with the recoil though... but recoil seemed tame compared to some other stuff that I shoot.

Alas, it got traded for something I liked better.

All the best in your choice!

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

Flower Child

If it fits you as you say 'custom tailored'..that's an important criteria.
Get it and find out!....HA!...it's only YOUR $$$'s we're spending!!!

Seriously..great round and a solid rifle.
FWIW
Wes

needs to be yours!!!!!!!!!!1 get it and find out that it really is a great round/rifle combo. 350 fans are devoted! recol is not nearly as bad as others try to make you beleave, now noise is something else! loud. hope you enjoy and become another beleaver. D O M I T !

I used one of the early Model 600's chambered in 350 RemMag when I was stationed in Alaska with the USAF --- took two med-large brown bear with it and that was using what I consider to be the anemic factory loads. I also used it on a couple of moose and at least black bear. The only animal that needed a second shot was one of the moose that I shot late in the season (really, really cold) and none of the 3 shots I hit him with expanded.

I must say the recoil was substantial and if I wanted to build a rifle specifically for brown bear (or hunting moose etc in brown bear country) I'd go a different direction. Specifically I'd find the cheapest used Model 70 CRF chambered in .375 H&H and cut the barrel to 20" or so, have the trigger tweaked and check it for accuracy.

If it would put 3 shots into 2" at 100 yards I'd restock it in a fiberglass stock, have iron sights installed along with a set of detachable Talley's and mount a Swarovski Z6 1-6x24mm scope. If it wouldn't shoot I'd have it rebarrel in a short and fairly stiff barrel. I wouldn't ever use factory ammo but rather reload it with either the Nosler Partition or one of the Barnes-X bullets. I'd look for 2450-2460 fps with the 286gr bullets and 2400 fps with the 300gr bullets ----- either of these loads would be softer shooter than the 350 RemMag ---- and you can always use factory ammo in a pinch. These loads would be a bit more powerful than the 9.3x62mm but as they'd be "loaded down" the brass should last forever. You shouldn't have any problem keeping the weight, with scope, around 8 pounds.

And you can find .375 H&H ammo almost anywhere in the world.

You know, stuff gets micro-managed on these forums which is what you'd expect but, really, if you like it, it fits you and your checkbook, get it, change the shark fin front sight, remove the rib if you want, or not, and just enjoy it. The problem when you ask this kind of question 10 guys give you 10 opinions, each differing from the other but not necessarily wrong. So, finally, you have to go with your own instincts. I don't think you can go too wrong.

Flower Child. While not exactly a small guy I am not big, just average 6' 64 year old guy. I shoot two .375H&H Mags., a Ruger #1 and a CZ 550. Honestl the CZ is a sweetheart to shoot. For me it is ideal because it has a very long length of pull and is very heavy, almost 11 pounds with a 2x7 scope. It recoils less than any of my 45-70's, and less than my 30-06.

The Ruger was a bear to shoot with a scope initally. I just put a Leupold 2.5x Scout scope on it, no sepcial mounts needed and it got the scope far enough away from my eye that I could hold the gun properly and not dodge the scope coming back in recoil. I just shot it the first time in this configuration this week, about 30 rounds off a bench and no problems. I do use an action eze slip on recoil pad, leather so it adds about 3/4" in lenght and is taller and wider due to wrap around of the leather.

Big guns are fun if you approach the properly. Make sure they fit, if shooting from a bench make sure you are sitting up straight so your body can rock back with the recoil otherwise it will hurt.

The gun that always hurts me the most is a Marlin 1896 Cowboy, in 45-70, using standard 405 gr bullet. I just orderd some lightweight 300 gr bullets to help temper the recoil .


Another good cartridge would be a 9.3x57, not super powerful, but that standard 286 gr bullet packs a punch. I have one in a lightweight Swedish Mod 46 and it's a honey. I would think the 35 Whelen should be good, but do not forget the old 45-70 for North American dangerous game. A good lever gun with some of the specialty loads are more than adequate for anything on this continent, plus most game on this planet.

Flower Child,
I am a 35 Whelen fan, however I could be curious about a 338 Federal if I was looking for a lighter rifle.
The ballistics of all the cartridges suggested are very close to each other in truth.

I prefer the 35 Whelen because I can reform 30-06 brass if brass is hard to find. People leave it laying on the ground at the gun club.

My opinion about people losing their ammo in the backcountry is that they are screwed no matter what caliber rifle they have.

Make sure you don't lose it is my advice!

Realistically a 30-06 with 180 gr Nosler Partitons would work if you can shoot.
whelennut

And that statement my friends is true of 99% of the animals on this earth is it not!

Dober

I have a model 673 in 350 Rem Mag. Handles great shoots great whats not to like.
I do not know what all the fuss is historically about this cartridge. Testers must have never shot any big bores.

Dober,
I guess we suffer from to much time on our hands,
or I call it Baskin Robbins Syndrome.
They all look so good.
If we admitted the 30-06 was all anyone "needs" what would the gunwriters do, live in a Maytag box?
Two years ago I bought my son a 375 H&H for black bear hunting.
He already had a 30-06 and a 7mm Magnum he got from me.
Do we have enough rifles? Yeah, or not so much?
If I use the magnum this year for scientific research the 35 Whelen may sulk in the safe and I couldn't "bear" that.
whelennut

Ruger 350RM For Sale

MtnHtr

Thank You Guys!
The one thing I have realized from all of this discussion is that there really are a number of fine light weight yet powerful rifles out there that will git her done. So far I have shot 2 35 Whelens, a 338/06, a 375 Ruger, a 375 Winchester (how did that sneak in there?), and a very nice custom built 338 Win Mag. I still can't find a 9.3 X 62 to shoot around here but I think I have gotten the point of what you fellas are saying. Namely that all of the above are wonderful rifles / calibers that will git her done and to say one is better than another is only subjective based on one person's experience. So here is how I have narrowed things down. The 35 Whelens are great rifles for DG hunting as are the rest and factory ammo would be available if necessary. 338/06 is a handloading proposition and an excellent combination but requires a custom rifle which seems a little more exotic than I want to go at this time. The 9.3 X 62 suffers from a lack of ammo availability down here in rural Virginia and I kinda doubt I would get very much practice with it which would lead to problems. The 375 Ruger is plenty powerful and available both ammunition wise and rifle wise. It is tied for second place in my thinking with the 35 Whelen and both are great calibers. However, I feel that slightly longer barrels than I envisioned are needed to get a comfortable margin of power for DG hunting but entirely doable. Now to the 350 Rem Mag. It will git her done in the short barreled configuration I envision but suffers from rifles with short box magazines that prevent several of the better 35 caliber DG bullets from being used. Darn! Life is all about trade offs isn't it? I guess for now I'm going with the 673 in 350 Rem Mag because I can get it here but I almost feel sure that I am going to have to do a lot of experimentation with the ammo to get what I want as it looks to me that the only really good DG bullets for this rig are 250 grainers which is going to create problems with the short box magazine. Certainly not the drop in, ready to play rig I envisioned but still doable. I'll just need to sort this one out a bit more than I thought and I still have the 35 Whelen / 375 Ruger as backups if things don't work out. I'll just have to buy another rifle (grin!!!!). Finally though, for me at least, it seems to have all come down to I just plain like all of the calibers I tested a lot but I have to pick one to start with for now, so this will be it but I am also much better informed about future options I might have if I decide the 350 Rem Mag is not for me later on down the line. I really want to thank everyone for their input as each of you has raised several good points for me to consider both now and in the future. You guys are an invaluable resource and a great bunch of guys that I consider to be my best friends. Thank you all so very much for all of your help and experience. You certainly covered all of the principal issues with this question very thoroughly and factually and I am grateful to each of you. Many Thanks!

Flower Child

I once shot an elephant in my pajamas...How he got in my pajamas I do not know?!!! -Groucho Marx-

Flower Child

I'm a Rem Model 7 junky........always wanted one in stainless 350 mag......but Rem didn't make one......I bought a stainless 7 in SAUM as a donor......a simple rebarrel would get me what I wanted........then, Ruger started closing out their stainless 77s in 350 mag........I could buy one ($450) for less than the cost of a rebarrel of the 7.......I'm not a Ruger rifle fan but I decided I'd try it...........figured I could always sell it if I didn't like it.

The 77 is slightly longer and heavier than the stainless 7.......but the 77 has a longer magazine box and a 22" barrel...........mine shoots EXTREMELY well.....I won't be selling it anytime soon.

Flower_Child,

I wouldn't lose sleep over the short boxes of the 350 RMs; that horse has been dead a long time and is still being beat. Say seating a 250-gr pill to OAL to fit your magazine eats up 10 grains of powder space compared to one seated to the base of the neck. I have no idea about that number; it's arbitrarily chosen to illustrate a point. The oft stated rule relating case volume to velocity is that for a 1% vel increase you need to increase volume (or in a 100% density loading, powder in grains to make it easy) 4x which means with your 10 grain loss you've dropped down in velocity 2.5% which in the 350 RM with a 250-gr bullet is in the neighborhood of 50-70 fps--essentially meaningless.

The same weeping and gnashing of teeth has been done over the .284 Win over the years. In mine, the very long 140-gr. TTSX seats a full .3" below the base of the neck to fit in a 2.95" box and yet in my rifle with R15 chugs along over 2900 fps, about what you can expect from the 284's case volume under any circumstances barring a 30" barrel. And, I doubt very much if we're talking about a 10 grain loss in case volume so the loss of velocity could be even less.

There are other factors such as barrel length or whether it's a "fast" or "slow" barrel which may affect velocity in your rifle as much or more than the small case volume loss due to bullet seating below the neck base.

Remingtons Model 7 CDL in 350 would be cool.

As a couple of people have already stated the .30-06 would work fine with 200-grain Partitions, or 220's for that matter. I know this is true--though not because I have done it myself, but because my friend Phil Shoemaker has done it it many times with 200 Partitions. (Phil--".458 Win."--already posted on this thread.

That said, the .350 is a good one. There have always been those who complained about the loss of powder space, and even some who built long-action rifles on the .350--or the 6.5 Rem. Magnum or the .284 or whatever cartridge they felt allowed the bullet too far down into the powder space. Apparently these people have never actually measured how far many heavier bullets protrude below the neck in LONG cartridge such as the .300 Weatherby, or a bunch of others.

That said, there isn't a heck of a lot of weight difference between a long and short action of the same make. Usually it's 3-4 ounces. So the other stuff like stock, barrel contour, etc. make a heck of a lot more difference than action length. A longer cartridge (whether .35 Whelen, .338 Winchester or .375 H&H) will normally feed noticeably slicker than a short/fat one, even if the short/fat one feeds reliably. And feeding slick is a good idea in a dangerous game rifle.

I have a .350 myself, a controlled-round feed Ruger 77 Mark II, that feeds reliably since I took an entire afternoon to really work it over. A Remington action would have probably fed slicker and would be somewhat lighter, but why dink around with a short round when you can do a light rifle in a longer round and not only have slicker feeding but 2 more rounds in the magazine?

My vote would be for a .35 Whelen in a reasonably light rifle, probably a 700 with a synthetic stock--that is, if you really want something bigger than a .30-06. The Whelen has the most boom for the recoil in the category of factory cartridges that are bigger than the '06, and has the advantage of 2 more rounds in the magazine over the .350.

I don't mean to offend Rem fans, esp. those who have had 100% reliability, but emotions aside, my 338/06 was on a NEW 700 SS action and the bolt handle broke off around 200-300 firings, not hotloaded, not beating the handle with anything.

Point is, love the 338/06, as I do the 350/358 and 9.3s, nothing against the Whelen either. BUT, if I were in DG country, I REFUSE to use a Rem actioned rifle. Sako, M70, Mauser, Montana Rifleman, Ruger, CZ, etc. all make dependable actions w/o the potential for a handle breakage....albeit however small, you simply will not find it acceptable should it occur, esp. if facing a DG animal. I want 100% confidence, but more importantly 100% construction i.e. one pc. bolt body/handle.

A Ruger 77 in 350RM with 225 Partitions or TSX or good 250s is plenty medicine, and in a totally reliable package. Lop off 2-3" if you want a faster handling rifle, and add a Pachmayr Decelerator pad or Limbsaver and you'd have a solid package.

MH, that is a nice no frills solid package, always loved and used DD low B&R on M70s.

Good points--but then I would still be tempted to use a 77 in .35 Whelen, just because of the extra magazine capacity and slicker feeding.

The other side of it is that some of us have used 700's for tens of thousands of rounds without a bolt handle breaking off.

If you want to be absolutely, completely sure then a 98 Mauser is the way to go. And that strongly suggests the .35 Whelen.

JB, good point on the Whelen, smoother in LA form w/o the belt no doubt, never owned one, but recognize it's worth. I chose the 338/06 for it's extra round and more tolerable recoil over the Winnie, and a 225 at 2670 was not bad, 200 bts at 2900 seemed to flatten whitetails also, and trajectory was better than many non users might guess. It and the Whelen are very close it seems, yet more factory options on the 35 of course.

Odds are I'd never have another Rem handle breakage, but when you get burned.....well, I really take it serious when it comes to my equipment. It happened after my return from a CO elk hunt, and it was the first shot at the range. HAD that happened on the hunt....the rifle would be wrapped around a tree somewhere on a mountain......

I never fault anyone for using whatever has worked for them. As to the 98s, It always gets my attention when owners post pics of nicely put together Mausers (esp. w/fancy wood).....seem to have a nice character about them and I well remember a friend's 280 that shot bug hole groups, so the potential accuracy for a hunting rifle is there. If I hit the lottery, I'd like to put together a few all out Mausers, but since I am awaiting my Stimulus money just to afford to play......something like an FN action without the nice custom features ie. high grade wood, would still make a nice sporter assuming good bbl, trigger, sights, and stock/bedding.

And when you get down to it, the 77 is a great value IMHO to approximate a 98 for a rugged hunting big game rifle.

Both of my remingtons have been tested, stuck cases, had to beat them open with a small piece of 2X4. I did learn a lesson though. Full length resize cases that have been fired in a different rifle! Nothing broke, oh tested my brothers one day too, bullet set out too far. I know it does happen just not as much as you would think. Other rifles break too I bet.

Oh talk about slick feeding, mine is getting broke in I guess, my 35 whelen feeds so slick now its hard to tell if you had one in the magazine.

I would love to have a Mod 7 or Mod 600/660 in .350 Rem Mag. I also have the hots for the Full Stock CZ 550 carbine in 9.3x62. My latest purchase was a 700 Rem SPS-DG in .375 H&H, NIB for $515. They are butt ugly and the best big bang for the buck, if they are still available at a price like that. Good luck.

These are my two...a stock 600 with Leupold 1.5-5 and a customized 77MKII with the barrel cut to 18.25".



The M600 replaced a M700 Classic/.350 that had replaced a Ruger #1/.375 H&H. The #1 was a great shooter but I got tired of the recoil and it was not exactly a lightweight to carry all day. The 700 Classic was extremely accurate also and much less recoil that a .375/270 grain/2670 fps load. The 225 Nosler Petition would run 2660 fps from a 22" barrel and could easily reach 2750 but recoil started to detract from the shootability at that point...so I backed down to 60 grains of Winchester 748 and lived happily ever after.

Once I found the M600 that many a panzie gun writer had scared me off from buying for 35+ years the handing difference was just perfect so the 700 Classic went to another home. It gives up 100 FPS but it slams game to the ground so who cares...

I also wanted a stainless .350 and when I saw this 77MKII on GunBroker I bid on it and was the only bidder. Some kid in Alaska apparently had it modified with New England Custom Gun sights and the barrel chopped down to 18.25". I use it on rainy days and on the 4Wheeler in Maine to keep the M600 from getting banged up too badly. It also is the designated 250 grain shooter and does it very well.

I have only taken deer with the .350s but my friend has taken 3-4 black bear with his M673. All were one shot drop in place. All were using the 220 grain Speer FP. This was his last sow..I believe it was 220#.



This is the only recovered bullet. Passed through the shoulder, lungs and was found under the skin in the chest. It was a 268# boar I believe.



These rifles weigh 8 pounds 3 ounces and 8 pounds 13 ounces respectively. If you want a REAL lightweight .350 then the way to go is the Model 7KS from the Remington Custom Shop. I just passed one up NIB on GunBroker with a Leupold Scope for $1350.00. I decided that for that money I'll build a stainless one...

Bob

The suspense is killing me. What did you decide on?
whelennut

Whelennut,
I'm still playing around with this but it looks like for me the 350 Rem Mag in the 673 Guide gun. After careful consideration it all came down to the 673 Guide gun in 350 Rem Mag was ergonomically perfect for me, both the size of the rifle and the cartridges. For some reason, the shorter length cartridge was physically easier for me to load and fire than the longer length cases. I guess I am just clumsy and fumble fingered but try as I would I could not seem to speed load the 9.3 X 62 or the 35 Whelen without dropping cartridges on the ground. The 350 Rem Mag simply fits my size hand and little chubby fingers better when loading the magazine. It is unlikely that the rifle would be empty but I still feel better being able to load it precisely in the dark without dropping any rounds or having them pop out of the magazine because I could not get them correctly positioned easily. Your experience I would guarantee is different but then you and most people ain't a short / small as me neither so I have to do what makes sense for me. Ballistically the 9.3 X 62 and the 35 Whelen are top notch choices for most folks. It's just for me this seems to fit my criteria slightly better but the other two are great choices for the same purpose. By the way, thank you guys for all the help. You sure opened my eyes and gave me plenty of information to formulate my choices from.

Flower Child

I once shot an elephant in my pajamas.... How he got in my pajamas I do not know?!!! -Groucho Marx-

A barnes 230 grain TSX at 2800 out of the 375 Ruger seems more interesting too me unless I am mistaken its in about the same bullet weight and velocity range as the 350 Rem mag. Then rifles are about the same weight for store bought ones. On the other hand where the 350 Rem Mag is at near its top end the Ruger is just getting started. I own a 300WSM, and a .270 winchester both feed well but the sure .270 feeds a lot smoother.

Here is my mod 7 .350. I love this rifle/cartridge.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth..._Not_really_a_custom_but_cus#Post3217834

I don't see any faults with the performance of the 350RM or the rifles you are considering. In fact the Rem CDL with a 20" and open sights looks mighty tempting. My only concern is feeding it. I don't see any dies, brass or ammo in the obvious places. I'm sure they are out there it just seem a little tough to find after I looked.

Brass, dies and ammo are around...you just have to order it off the web from Midway, Natchez, etc.

Reed's Ammo also has a lot of custom loads and Nosler brought out the .350 RM with their 225 Petition in their Custom Ammo line.

M7 CDL is a great handling gun...if I didn't already have a M600 I would look at one...

Bob

FC. I've had both the 673 and the Ruger M77. M77 Hands down. Only thing I killed with it was a moose and it was a one shot deal. Chamber is longer in the m77 for heavier bullets. 673 and even the box magazine just dont' work well with the heavier rounds. truth of the matter as Dobrinski said the standard old 30-06 with a 200 grain nosler will handle 99% of of everying on the earth. And it will have a better balistic coefficient.

I'll add, that to my way of thinking - magazine capacity is very important in a DGR - unless you always hunt with guides.

Most British Columbian grizzly hunters hunt without a guide - many of us hunt alone. Even if you aren't "hunting" them - in B.C., in many places - bears will find you, after a series of shots.

Once you've had numerous bears circle your moose - while you attempt to bone it out - you won't ever poo-poo magazine capacity - or detachable clips (with an extra one in the pocket) any more.

Guides are a luxury most hunters can't afford.

Cartridge capacity, on the other hand, for most hunters - is something they can afford.

Cudos on the choice of the 350RM
Like others already said, other calibers would have done the same job but like you, I have a "thing" for short actions. I'm not a big guy, only 5'6" and the short actions just fit me better and I like how they handle as well. I also don't like heavy rifles for hunting. I figure for a rifle I will carry a lot and not shoot often, I want something light. I took over a year to decide what I was going to go with when I wanted something bigger than the 308/3006. I too looked at 300 Win Mags, Whelens, 338-06's etc etc. A buddy of mine offered me a rifle he had for a number of years that he wasn't using and it was the perfect fit It's a model 7 KS with a few upgrades weighing in at 6 pounds 9.9 oz with the heavy mounts. I will be changing them out for Talley lightweights and removing the brake for a small thread protector. I also got 200 new unprimed brass and dies with it I might want to put the brake back on after I light off some of those 225's at 2700+ though See the rifle and some loading data here: https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...01/Re_Rem_700_in_350_Rem_Mag#Post6256301

Having owned several variations of the 350RM, I'd also cast my vote for the later mkII stainless/synthetic if you were going the route of a production rifle. You will be hamstrung with the M7 and 673 due to the slow twist rifling and the short length mag box. The mkII variation was built on Ruger's WSM receiver with the out the box package being compact, light, it has the proper rifling twist, and most of all, it has a longer mag box to hold the larger bullets. Mine fed well and shot great groups as NIB, it's a very useable workhouse platform for that chambering.

Best

What you want is Remington 660 carabine or Remington classic rifle built on short action. The 673 is actually heaver and less well balanced then legendary .375 Ruger Hawkeye African with walnut stock. I would say if your cerebrospinal fluid is in good order and tooth fillings of fine quality and execution (if you have them) the .375 Ruger is the rifle to own.
You know what ole' hunters always said if you miss brain of big bull the heavier bullet will stun them long enough for you to deliver secondary blow.

For the last few years I've carried a Rem 673 loaded w/ 225 gr Barnes TSx's over TAC. Hell of a load.

Unfortunatly, I haven't had anything to shoot at since I shot my bull elk with a 30-06 and my last bear w/ a 45-70. But the 673 carries real well.

BTW...I don't hunt as long or hard as I used to. Maybe I'll downsize to my Ruger 358 Frontier Scout.

It's all good, isn't it?

Not the .358 Winchester is frighteningly good cartridge. Many experienced hunters use rifles chambered for this caliber.

Check into a Montana action built specifically for your favorite obvious caliber the .350 RM. They can barrel it for you to the length and contour of your choice. This way you have a choice in the weight outcome. Many companies make stocks that are inletted for the MRC action. Complete used rifles occasionally pop up on different gun sites for reasonable prices. What MTNHTR did with the Winchester m70 is perfect. There are excellent components and load data available, load to your specs and go hunt.

...anyone ever notice that this is a 2.5 year old thread?? Do we know what FC ever did for a rifle and did he go hunting???

I just bought a custom stainless .350 RM based on the Montana Rifle company action. It has a 1/12 twist with 22" barrel so it was made for 250 grain bullets....

Bob

No Sir, but I wouldn't be one bit askeered to face any NA dangerous game with a 350 RM and my handloads using the excellent 280 gn Swift A Frame's.

Gunner

edit: spelling

gunner....was wondering what load are you using for the 280 Swift. What barrel length and have you ever chrinoed the round...

Thanks...Bob

Haven/t for the 350 RM RJM, used to load a 35 Whelen AI for an old Bud with the 280 SAF's and a big charge of AA 2015 BR powder, I can go out to the shop in the morning and try and find that load recipe if ya need it.

And IIRC we were running those close to 2500 fps in his 25" barreled FN Mauser, quite the little hammer on the '06 case.

Gunner

Thanks but all I have are .350s...and although there are loads listed for bullets up to 280 grain I don't think I really need anything over 225 for what I hunt. Was just interested to see if anyone had loaded that bullet into a .350 RM and lived to tell about it.....

Bob

I hear ya, but even in a 280 gn weight the SAF's are not an overly long bullet, just an FYI if ya ever decide to try 'em, and IIRC they were an extremely accurate bullet in my friends rifle.

Gunner

Being the owner of a 375ruger and a 9.3x62mm(a Lil step up from a 35 whelen) and a 450 marlin, I would not feel undergunned with a 350Remington magnum against any game in North America. A 358 norma magnum the same. The 375 ruger has got ample power for hunting elephant...I think there's some room to choose a step down to a 350RemMag for north American game.it can run a 280 grain swift a -frame at a respectable velocity and you can make up a nice rifle with a 24" barrel and increase your weight and velocity. The recoil should be less than the 375 ruger is such that the first time I shot it with a scope I busted my forehead bloody. The others no problem. Do some reading about the 350 rem mag, I'd feel safe against a polar bear.however I'd probably take my 416 against such creatures or my trusty 9.3x62mm with 286 grain Tsx bullets. Check out hendershots or superior ammo for some good quality ammo for the rem mag if you don't handload.

Shot placement and catching the big bear by surprise is what I'd think would be the key.if they know you shot them,I'd want the biggest gun I could shoot well to stop him. But if you can put the bullet on its mark, the 350 mag should be enough. You'll probably have people that disagree I'm not a professional I'm just giving you my 2 cents. Good luck.

Excellent Thumper of a Rifle.

You can’t go wrong with a 350 Remington Magnum. I’ve been using one since the 60’s.

I have a 350 Mag in a Model Seven that is off getting a Wildcat stock right now. Great little round in a short bolt rifle.
Should do what you require.

A 375 does not have to be long and heavy. Here's one I have here.

Sako AV FibreClass.