So I was gonna take some pics, and some video....but in the competition ran quick.... and I was a little outta sorts.... so here's the review.

Took the new Ruger American Predator in 6.5 Creedmoor down to the Sporting Rifle Match in Raton, NM this weekend. For those of you who are unfamiliar with this match, it has been going for 11 years now, and is probably the best test of field shooting I’ve seen... particularly if you approach it with a “hunter’s mindset” rather than a “match shooting” outlook. 60 target (115 sq/in and 28 sq/in), engaged with one shot each, at distances from 200 to 875 yards. There are 10 stages, and it’s about a mile from end to end…. at 6500’ ASL.
I bought this rifle on a whim, and was impressed enough with the initial performance to give it a baptism by fire…. almost literally. Aside from the chambering, which may be the most popular round at the match, this rifle stuck out like a Honda Civic at a tractor pull. To ask this rifle to compete with sticks weighing twice as much, and cost 10 times as much dough, is the acme of foolishness….. but, I’ve never been accused of not being a fool.
To be a true test of Ghetto-ness…. I also shot Hornady factory 140 Amax ammo. At the start of the 60 round match on Sunday, I had exactly 50 rounds through the gun…. Not nearly to be confident in my dope, but satisfied that things appeared to be consistent. I screwed one of the Surefire ProComp breaks on the pre-threaded barrel so as to avoid the minor beating of 60-70 rounds of 140’s out of an 8lb gun…. It worked VERY well, and allowed me to see nearly every hit/miss with enough clarity to make adjustments without feedback from a “spotter”.

Set-up Details:
Ruger American Predator 6.5 Creed
12x Super Sniper in SWFA Low Rings
Surefire ProComp muzzle brake
Harris 9” bi-pod, notched leg
Hornady factory 140 Amax loads (apx. 2700fps)
Blackhawk Stock Purse…. With the purse portion trimmed off. I needed to raise the comb height significantly to improve cheekweld and help with spotting hits. Two pieces of cardboard and the stock pack helped achieve that in short order. Hey, I said it was ghetto right?
All-up weight, fully loaded: 9.4lbs (next lightest rifle was just under 12lbs….. I know for sure, because it was my girlfriend’s CTR)

Overall:
Total score: 31 hits….. however, the rifle hit 32 outta 56. I shot the wrong target once, shot two rounds a full revolution (5 MILs) high, couldn’t find the ½ mile plate (pounded it when I did, but for no credit), and forgot to dial dope on another plate. Scores have yet to be posted, but I’m certain that 31 will be near the bottom. There were two scores only 1 hit off the course record…. and I can’t imagine you’ll get better conditions to shoot down there.

The rifle ran flawlessly…. feeding, extraction, etc were without hiccup. I did struggle with the trigger, shooting Tikkas and custom Rems will spoil you. I had two or three rounds that completely vanished from the atmosphere…… I’m joking, I’m sure they didn’t…. but no one saw any trace or impact.

The Good:
Warming-up on Sunday morning before the match began, the RAR didn’t miss…. 5 straight hits 400-875 yards. Then it cleaned the first stage of 12” round targets from 540-630 yards. I proceeded to skull-fhug a miss with my first round on the next stage by shooting at the wrong target…. I then cleaned the rest of that stage too…. Out to 625 yards. So, I hit the first 15 targets I shot at with the RAR….. out to 875… which would be about 5 seasons of hunting for your average Joe.

The Bad:
Primarily my attitude…. It was a long tough day. I struggled physically with the 3.5 mile hike as my knee is still pretty roughed up, and my concentration level wasn’t where it needed to be to make hits all day. I’m far too competitive to kink myself from the start by shooting a system that was completely out of its element…. Frustration sets in a little….. then the wheels fall off. Much like a round of golf…. You gotta let the last bad shot go…. and focus on making the next one a good one. At some point I looked down and had .3 MILs Right dialed in the windage turret…. How long it had been like that, I haven’t a clue…. But I shot a 1 on the previous stage…. whatever. Somewhere around the middle of the third stage I started seeing some weird vertical misses at ranges over about 400…. and never did catch up to them. I can think of about a half-dozen simple things that could have happened…. Fouling, heat, bases, rings, optic, milk jug stock, bedding, etc. But, I’m reluctant to pull it apart until I debrief it on the range. Like I said earlier…. This is a tough course…. the rifle could be fine…. and I coulda just got my ass kicked.

Impressions:
This ain’t the rig for ‘varmint’ type shooting, or any shooting where rounds are flying in a hurry…. It just isn’t. It gets hot, and stays hot due to the mid-weight pipe. But that’s not what it was designed to do. I think the ‘Predator’ moniker is quite appropriate…. More appropriately “Ruger Mid-Range Hunter”. As a cheap option for learning the long range game, or as a 500-600 deer/lopes rifle, I think still think it’s the titties. I treated it poorly, ran it super hot, threw it on the ground (in the Eberlestock) a couple times, dropped it in the parking lot at the hotel on accident (in the case), and verbally abused it on several occasions…. maybe I crossed the line at some point.

At the end of the day…. it did the most important thing it could do…. make hits straight outta the gate…. and it made a bunch of them. But, just like hooking the 14yd dump trailer up to my Dodge Dakota…. eventually the weaknesses are exposed…. and it just can’t keep up. I asked a lot from a $750 rig that ain’t even broke-in yet…. probably too much. I also only paid $25 a hit ($750/31)….. if you shot a perfect score with a $5000 rig…. It’d still cost you about three times that much per plate. There’s a reason the long-range game is dominated by 15-20lb guns with sewer main barrels and 40oz scopes…. I still can’t see mortgaging the house to do it though…..

The only thing I know for certain…. the SRM will kick your ass if you don’t bring your A-game…. and it’ll let you know if your rig ain’t up to the task.

More to come, once I get a chance to shoot it and tear it down…..

Now that you have some miles on your RAR-P, do you think that you'll do any upgrades/changes?

Boyds laminated stock for <$200?
Timney trigger for $125?
Something else that I hadn't thought of?

I bought a Boyds laminated in the Heritage style for my RAR-P in 223 and really like the ergs, but it adds almost an entire pound to the unit. I'm going to order another laminated Heritage for another RAR-P, just not sure which one. Sure wish that Ruger had cut the 22-250 at 1-8" ROT and the 243 in 1-9".

By the time a guy spends for a boyds and timney, it's getting up to Hawkeye Predator prices. With the Hawkeye, you already gots a good lam stock and a fantastic two-stage trigger.

Did you beat your girlfriend?

I mean that in the comp not in the hotel...

No.... no 'upgrades'. I'm not disappointed in the rifles performance.... I was, until I got a chance to put it all in perspective. I drove a bone stock Ford Taurus in a NASCAR race... and hung in there for the first couple laps. Hell.... nine outta ten guys won't shoot as many rounds through their new RARs in 10 years as I did on Sunday alone.... in 6 hours. So I'm reserving all judgement until more data is in.

$400 for the rifle.... plus another $300-$350 in upgrades.... put you aweful close the the price of a Tikka CTR..... and that platform blows the RAR outta the water. I own both... and would way rather have the CTR over the 'upgraded' RAR.

She shot a 22.... and I was proud as hell. She ran her new rifle on her own, made her own wind calls, hauled all her own schitt, and looked gorgeous doing it. That girl is gonna put some fur in the dirt this fall. She did beat me on two stages... and I was all smiles when it happened.

The .243 has a 1:9 and shoots 105 A-Max's very well..

Well, there's a lot of things going on here that need to be discussed in regard to your experience.


The Sporting Rifle Match is really a fun, informal type match. It's really not the toughest test of field shooting ability by any means. Can it frustrate participants? Sure.

At the SRM, 54 of the 60 targets are shot from prone. The ranges of the targets are given as well as a map for each station of target locations. Everyone on the squad helps others find the targets before shooting begins. Most folks shoot for fun and help each other with wind calls.

The wind is the largest factor at the match, even when we have days like Sunday where conditions are as good as you're gonna see them there. The wind is still tricky, falling off and increasing on a whim, completely changing direction between shooters, blowing 2 different directions on each location. At times it appears that there is absolutely no wind, but it is there as proven by a miss off of the plate...

For comparison, the Steel Safari is widely regarded as the toughest test of field shooting in the Nation right now. Each competitor must walk a different 2-3 mile course each day by himself, carrying everything he needs including food and water. At each shoot position he must locate the targets himself, range them, and shoot them. Most of the shooting positions are crappy to say the least; off of boulders, crags in rock outcroppings, off of tree limbs, standing off hand, support side shooting is necessary sometimes, etc...

Many times all of the targets cannot even be located and attempted because of "hidden" locations. All of this and also dealing with high heat and high winds generally.


I say the above not to diminish your evaluation but to put it in a bit more perspective. Many say that this Long Range Shooting just isn't that tough, and on the surface it isn't. But to be consistently good is very difficult. It takes the best equipment, lots of experience, and natural talent to be at the top. Realize that you've only shot the SRM twice now. Don't beat yourself up about your performance. I have a friend who is a sponsored shooter who has won big Precision and 3-Gun matches who's shot the SRM and only hit 3 targets with his custom rig and experience.

You're right that it's like golf or any individually oriented game. Attitude can completely destroy performance or resurrect it, but the mental game in sports is another story....

As far as concluding that a factory rifle can't hang at a match like this or in the field on a long range hunt, don't bet on it. I started in the game with a factory rig that couldn't hold a candle to yours ballistically or optically. I was able to do well enough to get going until I decided to get serious and upgrade. I also return to my roots once in a while and take it back for fun. I've posted the high score for my entire squad who were all shooting custom rifles. It's more a case of the Indian and not the arrow...

Hornady factory Creedmoor ammo is good stuff. The reason the chambering and the ammo were created by Hornady was to provide match quality ammo and ballistics for competitors who didn't want to load their own. Many big matches have been won by guys shooting the factory ammunition. The best group I've ever shot in my life was shot with Hornady Factory Creedmoor ammo...

If I had to point to the reasons you experienced difficulty, I would say either your scope took a chit or you didn't have the drop data nailed down enough to be successful. I'm thinking scope problems after seeing elevation issues come and go on each station. Shoot some 100 yard groups and dial out to 600 or 700 and shoot, then come back to 100 with this scope then swap it out with another that has proven to be good and do the same.

Overall, don't be discouraged. If you set expectations too high and they can't be achieved, you'll be pissed and frustrated. I'm sure you'll discover what's wrong with the system with some investigation.

Makers Mark and Nukl'r didn't help either....

I think you're dead nuts on the dope... unlike me. I made some presumptions on velocity based on observed drops... and it could very well have been the entire problem. Though... I shot the same card on the first stage.... and everything was titties.

I'm not inclined to suspect the scope, as it has been on other rigs and proven reliable.... but it coulda gone south... we'll see tonight.

PS..... there's water right there in the sink man.

The toilet would have worked for me at the time...

That shoot sounds like a lot of fun.

I think RAR are a POS.




Travis

But at $400+/-, they are virtually disposable.

Maybe..... but a CTR has never looked better....

One of the nicer (original)pics ever posted.


For sure in this particular forum.

Perhaps, but a tinkerer can't keep himself from tinkering, so a $700 would require some changes, if for no other reason than "just 'cause".

Dog,

Seems like you actually scored pretty well given all of that. Thanks for sharing your experience.

Regarding barrel heat... when you put the putty in your stock you captured the receiver, nut, and part of the barrel. In your other thread I had mentioned that barrel heat affected my POI when I did this. Top pic is your rifle that you posted. Bottom pic is my rifle after removing the bedding capturing the nut and barrel.

I still see a change in vertical POI as I shoot more rounds in my 223 RAR but I know my velocities are going up with the RL15 load I am using (shot over chrono). Once I removed the bedding capturing the nut and barrel it was less sensitive to barrel heat. But its no heavy barrel and doesn't have the thermal mass for long strings of fire.

I'm also wondering about your rings and the suppressor. I know you had good success early in the match with the can but did you do much shooting with it before SRM?

Anyway, still seems like a good showing at SRM.

Jason

Jason,

The thought on the bedding/barrel heat certainly crossed my mind, it was your post on the other thread that had me suspecting it.... even before the match was finished.

I should add.... that the elevation issues were all misses high... and progressive. Meaning.... the last stage the gun shot the highest... requiring .5 MILs less at 400 than it had earlier in the day.

The gun is still in the pack... right where I stuffed it after the final station. I'm gonna try to get out tomorrow morning for a little shooting session before I head into Denver.

Thanks Sam.... the can cover on upside down cracks me up... it's pretty endearing.

I hadn't even noticed.

Her pants are on backwards?

Good write up. I would really like to get up to the SRM some time this summer. Don't have any illusions of winning, but it sure sounds like a lot of fun.

John

Hell Josh I think you're being way to hard on yourself! We had two FNGs with us that are fairly seasoned 1000 yd F-class guys and they shot a 28 and a 35!! That course is challenging!!! I think both Jeff and Rick dropped a couple of points this round. Like I said I think it's awesome you shot the RAR. You can shoot bud. We all said that last year after you shot the little 260/10x off your pack!!! Im sure every miss would have been a hurting critter! I'm not that competitive but every match I learn a little more about the wind. Hell I would never even try to shoot a critter that far but if I ever get to pull the trigger instead of watching someone else, I will definitely have the confidence!!

AND just to be clear my rig is only 2.5 times more than the the RAR!!! Hahahaha

DS,

You probably do more long range shooting than I do, but I would be very surprised if that hunk of schit they call a stock, wasn't the reason behind a lot of your misses.



Travis

Saw that on FB yesterday. Well done to her for the shooting and to you for the con you apparently pulled to get her.

You may be right.... and it is certainly a prime suspect.....

To reiterate..... I'm not really disappointed in rifle (I was at the time)..... I'm curious as to the issues I saw.... but not discouraged in the least. Once I get it ironed out.... I'm sure it'll be fine... especially since I bought it to throw around in the truck and loan out, I didn't buy it you make it into a match gun..... shooting it at the SRM was just for shiggles.

Thanks man... hell, it's a coyote and deer rifle anyway....

Other than the targets I totally screwed the pooch on.... you're right... pretty much everything else woulda smashed a big game animal, especially all the 'misses' on the small plates... man those things are little.

I need to shoot more small stuff.... rather than 8"-12" plates. That should be easy though.... prairie dog season opens in less than two weeks.... they're about like a 6" round... right?

I need to shoot off the tri-pod more too....

I'm just happy I didn't have to walk home.... it gets a little stressful trying to shoot a match... and manage her while she's shooting her fist ever match, with anything. Things got kinda tense more than once.... but in the end fun was had by all.

A HUGE thanks to both Ric and Bruce.... who were incredibly patient and helpful with her.... it woulda been much tougher without those guys knowledge and sense of humor.

DS, very interesting post. I admire your willingness to test yourself w/ less than optimal gear and your taste in girlfriends.

If someone wanted to learn the fundamentals of LR shooting I think you have proven that the financial obstacles are overstated. I was inspired.
Thanks for a great post.


mike r

How small are the small targets?

John

12" and 6" rounds or diamonds.

That's an impressive showing for yourself and the rifle. There should be a prize for having the huevos to bring a factory gun like the RAR. Amazing what you can get a good bolt rifle for these days if you don't care about shine.

For a competitive person, it does something to know in advance, then see with your own eyes at the meet, that other competitors have outspent you. It's a ton of pressure others don't have to manage. The wheels fall off faster. So to show up and bring solid game is outstanding. Props to you. To then discuss it accurately on the internet gets more props. I owe you a beer!

Enjoyable read....Kudos..

If there was just a section for RugerAmerican Predators, I'd say you did a very good showing...

That had to be fun....

I agree whole heartedly with Travis on the stock on these things... mine had no issues, like you read others having with theirs... but its still a piece of tupperware, period...

I competed in a couple of informal local 1000 yds matches...
shooting a 6mm Rem with a 1 in 7 twist...
I came in last place, but I didn't care...

the Remington managed to hit the paper each time at 1000 yds...
and actually performed better than I thought I would...

best of luck next time out...whatever you bring the next time..

cheers!

Deal on the beer.... that sounds a lot better than Ric's whiskey, and it's far less likely to have the adverse effect on my shooting the next day. As a super competitive guy... and a guy that'll talk a little schitt.... it did get rather frustrating. Hell.... I won't even play rec-league softball anymore because it's not good for my rage. But I've shot the match before, and knew what I was getting myself (and the rifle.... and Emily) into. I wish I could have kept that in perspective while I was shooting.

I've said all along.... a sub-8lb (maybe 9lb) 'Hunting Rifle' class would be awesome down there... it would be a stern test, that's for sure. I'd definitely be willing to throw $20 on a winner take all side-pot. If a guy could hit 40 off his pack and sticks with his hunting rifle.... that would be one deadly dude on a big game hunt.... just about anywhere.

If there was a class for sub-10lb guns mine probably woulda whooped ass.... seeing as it was the only one there.

I'm not thinking the stock is the issue.... see below...

Finally got out and shot the rifle the other day.... all be it in 10-15mph winds.

Here's the list of suspects for my issues in the second half of the match (erratic accuracy, mostly vertical):
1. Bad Zero/Lack of necessary accuracy
2. Bad Dope (factory ammo)
3. Scope went tits-up (tracking, RTZ)
4. Base Screws (broken/lose)
5. Ring Screws
6. POS Milk-Jug stock (forend contact, bedding)
7. My Stupid Ass going Nukl'r Whiskey the night before the shoot

I'm just going to concede that #2 is at least partially correct... simply because I didn't have enough rounds down range to "know" what my dope was... I had to make some presumptions.

I'm also going to concede that #7 was certainly a factor... especially as the day drug on.

#1 was a little messed up.... about .3 MILs right. Coulda been caused by: #3-#6

I'm not inclined to believe that #3 is an issue... this scope has been on a few rifles, and always tracked/retained/returned well.

When I pulled the rifle apart, the ring screws were all tight, and the rings were snug on the rail... eliminating #5

BUT.... all four base screws were about a quarter turn lose. I'm not sure why... but I honestly don't remember taking the rail off and making sure it was properly mounted/snugged. #4 is now the prime suspect... as it could have caused all the other issues... and the fact that the issues seemed erratic.

The stock (#6) looked good actually... there as no bedding chipped or worn unevenly. The barrel shows no signs of rubbing (see Jason's great "Ruger American Crappy Stock" thread) or other contact, and the action screws were still blody-knuckle tight.

So... base is re-mounted and screws re-torqued and lock-tighted. I've got it in 'hunt mode' now, wearing a Leupold Vari-X II 3-9x40 Tac in cheap weaver rings. With the brake and pack now removed... it weighs a skoosh over 7.5lbs.

I toyed a little with 123 Scenars over RE17... and it shows some promise with velocities up around 3000fps.... 123/.545/3000 is a bad ass stat line for 42-44 grains of powder.

More good stuff to come from this rifle....

Factory Browning A-Bolt with a VX2 Sporting Rifle Match Result


You'll see a 45 there on the page that beat lots of custom rigs...

Sounds like Ric is in for $20 running the Browning.... What's that rifle weigh all-up?

I'm in, I'll run the RAR....

Who else..... we can do it in August?

Glad you have some explanations, Dogshooter.

My RAR didn't come with a rail but alloy bases (Weaver brand?). Awhile back I had some issues and took everything apart and found the base screws loose like yours... and shiny spots on the receiver where the edges of the bases contact the receiver. This was a first for me as I've never had an issue with base screws coming loose. I figured it was operator error during install but wonder if the factory supplied rail/base and hardware quality are suspect?

I put Warne steel bases on the RAR and haven't had any issues since. The fit was noticeably better.

Jason

Exactly... This...^^^^^

What # or style of Warne bases fit the RAR?

I think you shot really well considering. Do you have anymore pics of your girlfriend to share with us?

Dunno.....but EGW makes a 20 moa rail for them.

I used the standard set out of the Warne Base Chart, 902/902, I believe. I was tempted to try the extended front though.

The EGW is extended.

huntsman22,

The EGW is a great option for extra elevation, and/or extra ring spacing. Thanks for the info. My wee-RAR and 10x MQ have 21+ mils of elevation left in the erector with flat bases. So far I've gone to ~1300 yards but there's not much left in the turret from there!

Jason

This thread has inspired me....

I have a Predator 6.5 on my desk, along with a case of factory ammo. Should be fun...

You know where to send my commission check....

I sure do! I'm trying to decide what to scope it with. I want to keep the price low, but I don't have a SWFA to throw on it.

What brand of factory ammo, Hornady or Winchester/Olin?

I have a Sightron S1 4-12x40 AO on my RAR-P in 6.5 Creedmoor. Don't know that you could get more scope for less $$.

I've shot both the Winchester Match 140 HPBTs and the Hornady 140 Amax ammo.... the Winchester is more accurate in my rifle, but the .530 BC sucks balls compared to the .595 of the Amax load.

140 Amax shot well over 40-42 grains IMR 4350 in Hornady brass.

Weaver 3.5-10 Tac or Leupold 3-9x40 CDS would be a good way to go. I've got the Leupold 3-9 on mine now.... it's pretty light and handy.

Hey Josh, I think me and Jeff are in on the hunting weight class. Hopefully we will qualify! Hahahaha our hunting rifles are more like your 260 that you shot last year. Do we have to shoot off of packs?? Rick are you in??

Yep! It'll be fun. I use the Stoney Point Rapid Pivot bipods on all my hunting rigs...

I recon if you can get a bipod on a gun, and keep it under 9lbs... then that's probably a viable 'hunting' set-up. My .260, that I shot last year, weighed 10.5lbs all up with the bipod and purse.

Maybe we could handicap it.... like +8 plates for going sub-8lbs.... +4 for going sub-9lbs..... and then have a 10lb all-up limit? That would mean a 35 with a 7.5lb gun would 'score' 43.... or 39 with a 9lb gun. If you can get the bipod on, and keep it under the 10lb hard-deck.... then shoot off the bipod.

Cut the crap about handicaps.

Bring one of your hunting rifles and shoot it.

"This pack is brutal..... can someone carry my rifle?".....

Ok, you can use your super duper heavy rig. I've decided to use one of these to make it fair...

Is that a Browning?

The upgraded version of the RAR Predator

That's kinda the point.... I don't own one, they're specialty tools.

You've shown you can "Dominate" with a 15lb gun..... does that dominance translate to a hunting rifle?
Can you do it no bipod?
Should an 8lb rifle off the pack be able to hang with a 10-15lb rifle off a bipod?

That's kinda what we're trying to find out here..... what SRM "Game Skills" translate to "hunting rifle skills".... the two are distinctly different.

Saying that your 15lb .300 Winny is a "hunting rifle"..... is like saying a raced-out Glock 36 with a red dot sight, compensator, and drop holster is a "carry gun"....

Not saying it's a hunting rifle, but I have carried it a few miles and hunted with it... guess it can be called one if you do so...

Bet the pack-in and out was a hell bitch on that one....

You in to shoot a light rifle..... or you just bumping gums at those who are?

Read the thread Grasshoppah!!

So then..... how much does your "hunting rig" weigh.... as that what we're trying to figure out.

A 10lb gun ain't a hunting gun..... period.

A 9lb gun is seriously pushing it.... but I've packed a lot of them a lot of miles too. in the field, you pay that penalty for the extra weight with ever step you take.... but at the SRM you're not punished by the terrain for packing extra weight. Punished by the night before.... that is another story entirely. There needs to be a punishment for that extra weight.... do it with points. 1 plate for every quarter pound over 8 lbs doesn't seem exorbinent.

An 8lb gun is more than reasonable for all hunting applications.... Sheep to whitetails to Elk to coyotes. If you can shoot one of those, sans bipod, inside the perimeters of SRM ranges.... then you better carry a good knife on your big game hunts.

I consider an 8# gun to be a light weight rifle. My custom Lightweight Packer by Score High in 6.5 Creedmoor weighs a bit over 7#'s without ammo, and it has just about everything within reason done to it to lighten it...

24 oz High Tech stock
Bartlein 2B custom contour 3 step
Hollow bolt handle
Fluted bolt
Lightened shroud
Weight taken off of the receiver...etc..

All of my other hunting rifles are in the 10 to 11 pound range and they ARE hunting rifles whether you think they are or not.

There's another one of these shoots coming up? Or are you guys talking about next year?




Travis

First Sunday of every month. Last one is September...


http://sportingriflematch.com/schedule.php

Just curious, but what sort of hunting do you do with 10 and 11 pound rifles? Do you spend much time still-hunting or spot and stalk or ???

He shoots animals behind a high fence under a corn feeder from a blind,
don't ya Rick..

I don't know anybody who hunts with a rifle over 8 1/2 pounds and most are lighter..

Gamers will always game looking for any advantage they can get..

You see that in every competitive shooting sport out there..

My rifles are set up for long range whether they're super light or not. I'd like to see some pics like the following of some of the guys rifles posting here. I think most THINK they have sub 8# rifles but really don't.

Cartridge choice sometimes necessitates a bit more weight if you do any shooting at all. Since this is the Long Range forum and I set my rifles up for that capability, scope choices that I like sometimes increase weight. I also have my rifles set up to fit me with a 14 1/2" LOP

I don't live in Texas, so I actually hunt.



.264 WM
McMillan Remington varmint
26" light Palma with a brake
6.5-20 Mark 4 TMR


.

.300 WM
Manners EH-1
26" barrel plus a brake
VX3 6.5-20 TMR





Coyote rifle
Factory .243 wssm Varmint Stalker
24" med varmint barrel
VX2 LRVD 6-18





Lightweight Packer in 6.5 Creedmoor
24" super skinny 24" barrel plus a brake
High Tech (Bansner) stock
VX3 4.5-14 CDS TMR

When I hunt, I frequently do so from a self-propelled blind, a 4x4 SUV or pickup, so the weight of my rifle is pretty much a non-issue/low priority. As I get older, I find myself adopting my FIL's policy of never shooting a deer than you can't drive to unless it is a buck worthy of hanging on a wall.

Nice!

rcamuglia,

This thread has not got my attention until today. I opened the next to last page. The idea a hunting rifle doesn't weight more than eight pounds is ludicrous. Just today I verified the sight setting on my Klienguenther K14 for elk season. It weighs 11 1/2 pounds without ammo.

The other rifle I will pack along weighs an even 8 pounds. I paid a chunk of change to get one that light. It has a Pierce lightened titanium action, a Christensen Arms 26" carbon wrapped barrel and an MPI custom light stock. It carries a reasonable scope for its job: A Leupold VX-6 4-24X52. Like I posted. It weighs 8 pounds without ammo. Like you posted, I bet those 8 pound rifles weigh more than 8 pounds with a scope mounted.

Yep.

Fhugking RAR Predator weighs 7.8lbs with the 3-9 Leupold... paid like $650 to get it that light.... for the entire set-up... Laffin...

CTR goes 8.2lbs with similar Leupold in Talleys...

Ric.... of all the rifle pics you've ever posted....the light Creed is the only one that I'd like to own. Shooting that one in Raton?

I think that's a good idea. It'll be quite the step up ballistically from the factory coyote rig and duplex reticle.

I cut my teeth guiding high end Coues deer clients in MX in the early 2000s. AZ coues hunters seemed to be ahead of the curve in the long range game. Our camps consistently had a bunch of Miller marksman, Echols legends and Lazzeroni rifles as well as the men who make them. Substantial rifles, wearing 6.5-20 leupold with Premier reticles usually shooting belted 300 magnums. These were the long range guns of the day. I don't remember anyone ever having trouble packing one in Coues country. Now, the trends have changed. Lighter calibers shooting long, high BC bullets with turrets on top of the scopes. Now a days, I see more Gunwerks rifles in camps than most other "long range" specialty builders. The LR 1000 is right at 10lbs I believe. A little lighter than the old long range guns. Again, I haven't had anyone have trouble packing one in Aoudad country. I see probly 4 to 1 Gunwerks rifles versus NULAs.
For me, I think the best compromise of shootability of and packability lies at 9-10 lbs all up. I absolutely hate the term long range hunter. I think you should be a hunter and be prepared for any kind of shot. Too me a long range shot is the last option. The idea that a ten pound rifle is not a hunting rifle is crazy! The big backup doubles that PHs carry in Africa are way north of ten pounds! Can you shoot far with a light rifle? Of course!!! Can you pack a 10+ pound rifle up a sheep mountain? I see it all the time! Shoot what works best for you! Flung what you brung! What the hell was I talking about?? Hhaha

I agree there are a lot of guys that hunt with 9lb + rifles.





Travis

There's a reason this 8lb rifle is here....



because I hauled this 9.5lb rifle up here.....

PS.... a 10lb rifle isn't so bad when it's in the pack.... but it can be a real bitch when you have it in your hands for a couple miles....

That rifle in the top pic didn't leave my hands for about a week straight..... at elevations from a beach-side Puget Sound to over 11,000' up above Vail getting gut-checked by Kid Billygoat. There's no way I'd have been able to have the rifle at hand, all the times, if it weighed 10lbs.... no f'n way.

Here it is right near the beach.... boi...

Two words...
























Kifaru Gunbearer

I guess I'm just totally phugged up! My newest hunting build came in at 10#'s scoped and I consider that my lite hunting rig. For a lot of years I carried a Tikka 695 in 280 which is about 8-9 #s. But for the last 6 years I've pretty much carried 12-14 pound rifles on deer, antelope, elk and Barbary hunts.

I wish somebody would have told me I was doing it wrong! No wonder I couldn't keep up with nmpistolero in them damn rocky ass hills!

Now if I'd only carried my 7lb rifle, wait....hell that would have to be my 22 hornet, maybe I'd have killed something!

Different guys obviously hunt in different terrain, and that influences choices in rifle setup and weight. You'd be kicking yourself all the way down the mountain if you decided to haul a 14 lbs rig, and leave the 7 lbs rifle at home, when hunting BH sheep or back-country elk around these parts...

I don't think I've been on a hunt in the last 20 years where I'd rather have a 10lb rifle than an 8lb rifle..... not a single one. But I'm not hip to sitting in a blind/tree stand half a block from home... or hunting from a truck until something is glasses up... maybe I need a better window mount.

I know there are a lot of guys who pack heavy guns set-up for the long ball, but most times a Montucky would suffice for the necessary shot. Seems a lot like the oilfield dudes with the chromed-out diesel 4x4 F-350 on 35's.... hey, they might tow something someday..... but the only action that rig will actually see is when the dipschitt backs over a flower bed.

I can't think of a shot I've taken at a critter where the result woulda been different if I had a heavier/lighter rifle. I know I've never seen someone with a 10lb gun go up a mountain faster than if they had an 8lb gun.... but I have seen that extra couple pounds slow a few guys down (myself included). I know for a fact getting to the top second cost me a bear.... and the guy who beat me to the top was packing an 8lb gun.... I had the Sendero RUM.

I do know there are a lot of times I would have rather had 8lbs of rifle and two extra pounds of water.... than that 10lb gun. Nothing slows me down more than being dehydrated.

I know I've missed a shot opportunity or two because my 10lb rifle was in the pack, not in my hands. If 10lb guns are so good for hunting..... why are all the racks full of sporters at every gun shop I visit? For every 1 guy who intensionally assembles and hauls a 10+lb gun into the field.... there are 99 who take to the hills with something in the 7.5-8.5lb range.... yet I'm supposed to believe that 10-12lbs is a "normal" hunting rig? Y'all sound like the gay-marriage crowd....

I believe one of our resident 10-12lb Hunting Rifle Gurus once used the phrase on a recent hunt: "this pack is brutal..... can someone please carry my rifle"..... enough said, the Defense rests your Honor.....

It sounds a like I should get the 4 plate handicap since I'll be out of breath, have a high heart rate and I'll be dragging ass. Lol!!!!

Laffin.... [bleep], my ribs hurt....

I totally agree a super lightweight rifle is better for long pack-ins and outs, especially when coming out with a max pack load...70 pounds plus an 11 pound rifle in a day pack with a belt designed for 40 ain't no fun.

Then there's the other problem some here have to deal with when buying a light rifle on the cheap instead of building one with top quality components. You end up with short, cheap barrels, short stocks, cheap optics etc. that, as demonstrated, gives you a 50% success rate in a situation void of pressure.

I think the real reason to go to a lighter hunting rifle is your level of fitness and age.

I know DS has some knee problems. Problems that cancel hunts. M2M also has had some knee surgery that put him out of action for a while. Sucks for sure.

I got to thinking about my left knee last week and how it's starting to give me trouble. I went to the Doc and he examined it and then sent me for X-rays. Sure enough, I have an issue there. I'm definitely going to have to start hunting exclusively with the light custom rig!

At least you aren't always stepping on yours.

I'm looking forward to seeing the difference between a "Super Lightweight built with the best components".... and one of the most ghetto mass produced sticks in history. Same general weight.... same caliber... same shots... same day... it'll be interesting.....

SLM.... you gotta give guys like Ric and I more credit.... we step on our own dicks all the time....

Hahahaha arguing with you is like like arguing with a liberal!! No point!! I never said a heavy rifle was the the norm. I said that a 10lb rifle can absolutely be a hunting rifle. I concede that is big country you're hunting and I'd probly never hunt that high. A lighter rifle would be better to pack for sure! But saying 99% of Elmer Fudds are out there bustin brush(running off game, hahaha) with 7-8 pounders doesn't help your cause!! The reason there are so many sporters on the shelves is all the nice 10 lb guns are out killing Shcitt!! Hahaha

If two pounds caused you a couple of missed opportunities, you didn't want it bad enough... Just saying.

It's all in good fun, I couldn't care less what you shoot. Like I said before, everyone on here is tougher than me, can shoot better, see farther, has bigger critters, and taller hills. I don't know a dam thing!

You left out the part about the X-ray too... LOL

It's more of the "Indian" and not the "arrow".

I've shot well with a rifle you consider more of a piece of junk than the RAR

I'm looking forward to seeing it....

My lightweight Creedmoor shoots better than my match rifle...

.7" at 200

Then why shoot your "match" rifle? Wait.... I thought that was a hunting rifle.... I'm confused.

If 10-12-15lb guns aren't a problem.... why drop the dough on a "lightweight Hunter"?

Yep.

Asking for a clarification.... if your light gun shoots better than your match gun... why would you ever shoot the match gun?

If heavy rifles aren't a hindrance in the field, yet offer all these supposed advantages when shooting... why build a light weight HUNTER?

Kinda stepping on your dick there.....

You've seen the X-ray. You should understand.

Match rifles are configured differently for reasons. Stocks with adjustable combs to fit shooters with upscale scopes with a ton of travel and a canted 20 to 30 MOA rail for extreme long range target engagement. Adjustable LOP's. Stiff stocks for accuracy and no accuracy shifts. Heavier barrels to withstand stages where you may need to fire 30 rounds in a couple of minutes. Bottom metal to accept high-capacity magazines. Stocks are configured for positional shooting advantages etc.

The Lightweight rifle is for easy carry, shots at shorter ranges, lightweight lower-powered optics, blind mags because you're not gonna shoot more than a few rounds, and LONG distance pack trips.

I prefer to still-hunt, but have no problem punching tags from the mobile blind. My FIL probably shot 100 whitetails from the seat of his Chevy and most of them parked in the same exact spot. He always turned the engine off and wore his orange hunting hat and vest to make it legal. Even so, the local CO tried to catch him doing something illegal for years and was never able to write a single ticket. When you have 7,000 acres of ground to hunt, being able to move rapidly across 11 square mile with a variety of difference habitats is useful.

I did see a humorous mobile blind a couple of years ago, a guy with a Primos Double Bull blind in the back of an F250 crew-cab. Seemed like a lot of work with little ROI to me. The guy even draped a camo net across the front of the truck.

It's illegal in NM to shoot at game from your truck. You must be 40 feet off of a road as well. It's easy to carry an 11 pound rifle 40 feet.

In Nebraska, it is illegal to shoot from a right-of-way and from a vehicle with the engine running. You've got to be off the road, turn off the engine, and wear your hunter orange to be legal. Except for the hunter orange, it is about like shooting pdogs, only the weather is usually colder.

Oh, ok..... One is for fhugking around... and the other one is for actual hunting.... got it.

For thinking that competition is just fhugking around, you sure were visibly and audibly upset a lot....

It's 100% fhugking around.... Look at the guns, that tells you all you need to know. ... just like an USPSA/IPSC match. I wasn't pissed that I wasn't competing... I was pissed that I couldn't figure out what the hell was going on.... and beating off for 7 hours can get a little exhausting. I knew I was mechanically overmatched...

The difference between you and I is.... I'm not disalussioned enough to believe that because I won a competition, using specialized equipment... it means I'm a bad ass when the chips are down and I've got to make a hit.

"But shooting game is SO easy!"


New W Tx study finds TOOTING ones horn and SHOOTING ones horn may be related.


XOXOXO
"[bleep] Face"

Well if you think top shooters win competitions because of specialized equipment, you're definitely dreamin'

Then quit talking..... and win it with your light weight gun...

No, they use VERY specialized equipment, take great care in loading their ammo, and are very skilled at all aspects of the game. Sometimes, they get lucky and sometimes they don't, but I suspect that they manage all of the variables that they can.

Are you jealous? Sounds like it.

I'm pretty jealous I don't have the contradictory rationalization skills that some others seem to posses in spades....

I'm trying to figure out how to get to New Mexicihole the first Sunday of September.




Travis

Now that Im thinking about it, I'm out. It's not about competition to me. I go up there to shoot with my friends that I don't get to see much and have fun and play in the wind. We'll probly still shoot with our so called "hunting" rifles because that does sound fun and I won't have to reload for the creedmoor! Hahaha But I don't need the competition or to be validated hahaha Yall have fun!

Very high level competitors compete against themselves, working to improve at every practice, every competition.

You'll never want to leave.

Mapquest suggests Route 87 to I-90 to I-25 to ??

True, but don't forget that in all individual sports like golf for example, you're competing against the course that is set and Mother Nature as well as yourself.

Hit I25 and head straight south. When you're out of liberal land(CO) you're almost here buddy.
I've been wanting to shoot in this match but it never pans out. I need to just make it. I've got a light weight 243.....will that suffice? I haven't shot it very much, but it does show some promise.
It would be nice to put some faces with the names around here. I know Rick will be the one with the X-RAY.....LOL. JK Rick.
It'll have to be August for me. I'll be in CO in Sept helping a buddy chase big Bulls. I didn't draw an archery tag so I'm motoring North to GJ........

It'll be fun. You live close. Shame on you for not being there every month!


I wonder what this rifle weighs? My guess is that DS won't be calling it a "hunting rifle"

LOL

Every hole on every golf course is different, competitive shooting is generally done at known distances, but Mother is a Mother to all.

Not if you're there.



Dave

Think I'll take my savage bolt action 20ga to a sporting clays shoot. And after I get my ass kicked i'll bitch about how the competition wasnt using real hunting guns..or maybe it was the wal mart federals i was shooting, or maybe the poly choke wasnt adjusted correctly.

this shidt makes about as much sense as a soup sandwich.

I'm not bitching at all... I'm the one who shot the match.... I didn't see you there. I pretty much told it like it is... including copping to fhugking some stuff up.

If you read the post.... you'd see that we were talking about a hunting rifle side pot.... that's what spurned the equipment weight debate.

If you can shoot an 8-9lb gun and shoot the kinda scores guys running the game guns do... then you're the baddest dude on the planet.... like Ric. I'll gladly pay the $20 side-pot entry to see it..... whatcha bringing to shoot?

There is absolutely no correlation between the weight of a competitor's rifle and his score in this game.

There is absolutely no correlation between the accuracy of a competitor's rifle and his score in this game.

There is absolutely no correlation between the cost of a competitor's rifle and his score in this game.

For someone to conclude that there is simply shows a need to gain more experience.

Since you just stepped on your dick...... again.... with the mass hypocracy..... I'll bring the RAR.... you can shoot it... shouldn't be a problem since cost/accuracy/weight mean nothing to you....

Or you going to shoot a top 5-10 score with your 7lb gun (that still costs thousands)?

again.... I really can't wait to see it.

OTOH, there are factors where direct correlations exist generally

There is direct correlation between verified drop data and competitor's final score

There is direct correlation between projectile BC and final scores (that's why the only sub class that exists is ".308")

There is direct correlation between proper functioning equipment and competitor's final score

There is direct correlation between the shooter's ability to dope wind and final score

There is direct correlation between shooting form and the competitor's final score.

The above factors fall into the category of "doing the work" necessary to succeed. There is another intangible that is a big factor in the equation

There is direct correlation between natural ability and competitor's final scores.

then you shouldn't mind running dog's RAR, if it ain't all about the gun.

I wouldn't run any gun with a scope that is questionable, loose base screws and with drop data that was a guess no matter how expensive it was or how much it weighs and have high expectations

I think you're full of schitt Ric..... seriously. I hand you your 7lb gun.... and your scores will suffer.... you know it, and I know it. there's a reason why EVERYBODY there is shooting heavy guns.... it ain't because 'weight doesn't matter'.

You need to be in politics..... because you side-step your contradictions and direct evidence to the contrary better than any Democrat I've ever seen.

Weight doesn't matter...... accuracy doesn't matter..... equipment doesn't matter..... says the dude shooting the $8000 15lb full-custom .300 Winny.

You sure have let your mouth write a pretty big check..... the only way I see it EVER getting cashed... is you shooting a top 5 score with your "lightweight" rig.... after all, you said none of that schitt matters.... we ALL hear you talking.... now I'm sure we ALL can't wait to see it.

I could pick up Huntsman on the way. Would be kinda fun.




Travis

Here's an idea Ric.....

Take $1000..... that's your entire budget.

Go buy a factory rifle....

Go buy a scope....

Go buy mounting hardware....

Go buy 100 rounds of factory ammo...

You shoot a 50+ with it..... and I'll buy it from you for $1500

You shoot a sub-45 with it.... and I get to buy it for $500.... or, you can keep it.... and shoot the next match wearing a pink Tu-Tu and T-Shirt that says "I talked WAY too much Schitt".

I can't understand why you think simply stating FACTS is talking "Schitt".


Are you seriously saying that a guy shooting a $15,000 custom rifle package that weighs 20 pounds that is capable of shooting in one hole repeatedly at 1000 yards WHO CAN'T READ WIND will win?


Same guy and equipment but hasn't verified his drop data will win?

Same guy and equipment who has poor shooting form, flinches and jerks the trigger, will win?


You seem to think that you can BUY a magic setup that guarantees success and consistency regardless of who is doing the shooting. Sorry, it's just not the case.

Did you win that match before..... or after... building your Gamer .300?

If it doesn't matter..... why does EVERYBODY shoot a heavy rifle.

Put you money/ego/rep on the line and shoot your light gun. For a guy who shoots the biggest and best.... you sure have painted the picture that none of it matters.

What I'm hearing you say is: it doesn't matter what equipment you shoot (even though you've had numerous posts where you stated the contrary, and run a full-custom rig), it doesn't matter what it weighs (even though you shoot a gamer gun, and built a light rifle that "is more accurate"), it doesn't matter how accurate it is (even though I've got a dozen "group pics" from you).

You in to shoot the RAR.... build a sub-$k set-up and shoot it on a bet..... or win with your "lightweight" rig?

If none of the above.... then you're dismissed.... and we'll all know you're just talking schitt.

You remind me of the "street racers" who pull up to race with their "street car" on a trailer. Big block, three kits, big slicks, running airplane fuel..... talking schitt to the guy in a Mustang who actually drives his street car to race.... then drives it home. "It's not about horsepower or specialized equipment"...... It's about the driver..... Yeah, right.

All I hear is you bumping gums man. I had the sack to actually do this, and then report honestly about it. All while trying to help my girl shoot the match too.... with rifles that is owned about a week. You've been nothing but a condescending azzhole on the whole thing, even though you were great guy and patient with her during the match. I'd love to see you put together a rig that anyone, anywhere, anytime could pick-up with less than a weeks pay...

At the end of the day, I don't give a fhugk about the RAR.... it was an experiment. i never expected it to hang.... I didn't expect it to go tits-up either... but that was my fault. I'll shoot it again.... and I know it can hang with other sub-8lb rifles.... any of them. Bring one.... and we'll find out.... unless you're ego is as big as your Game Gun.

Higher quality equipment minimizes the sort of variables that you can control by spending $$. More $$ spent wisely equals a greater impact on those variables that you can control.

The variables that you can't control, such as wind, don't impact all competitors equally 'cause Mother Nature is first and foremost a Mother to all. Money can't minimize the impact of Mother, only skill, practice, and luck can do that.

Or so it seems to me.

If you step up to the challenge that you've been offered, you can defend you position, if you feel confident that your skill will trump the variable that you can't address with $$.

Heck, if I'm free, I'd drive down to "the little mouse" to see you shoot the $1,000 package match. I'll even buy you a beer afterward, win or lose.

I'm guessing that $1,000 budget would break down something like this:

$400 for an RAR-P in 6.5 Creed (maybe a little less, as small dealer HS is currently $330ish)
$350 for a scope
$050 for a base and rings
$200 for factory ammo, 100 rounds for practice and 100 round for real

I'm going to shoot it with the CZ 452.

I'd lose with any of them.

I'd like to shoot it with my CTR or my 22-250.




Travis

Can't go .22-250, 6mm minimum.... unless shooting an AR in .223.

3200fps is the max.

George Digweed

24 World Championships, 18 European Championships, 116 International Championships, 16 World Cups, 10 European Cups, 11 British and English Championships.


John Griswold

Last three finishes at the Steel Safari were 2013 Champion, 2014 Runner-up, 2015 Champion






Each have 73 career PGA tour wins, one has a record 18 Majors.



Do you think any of these guys above are using some kind of magic equipment, shells, clubs etc...


Or is it possible that they're just better than everybody else because they did their homework and have better natural ability than most everyone on the face of the planet?

WTF kinda commie lovin' schit is that?





Travis

I like the name digweed. That'd be a good user name.





Digweed

I guarantee you they are using 100% custom equipment.... precisely swing weighted, specific lengths, custom lie and face angles. Would they whip my ass running clubs from Walmart? Hell yeah.... Would they win a major.... or even make the cut.... I seriously doubt it. But feel free to continue speculating... and making an ass outta yourself.

We're any of the referenced guys placing in matches shooting sub-10lb guns.... or factory guns.... or factory ammo.... or a set-up costing sub-$5k. I bet the answers are No, No, and No.

I noticed you failed to answer the question again.... again... Why did you build multiple game guns? Did your scores improve?

Keep talking.... and not committing.... shows your true colors.

I think Lance road a Schwinn Stingray to those 7 yellow jerseys....

Is that the date you guys decided on? I might be able to make that...

John

September is elk/bear season.... I'm shooting it again in August...

Never said they would win Majors with off the rack clubs. Especially when competing with others with like talent. If they entered any City Championship with clubs off of the rack, they'd kick ass because of the differential in natural talent of the field.

The guys referenced were just off the top of my head examples

Guys win Championships shooting factory ammo all of the time. In fact, only factory ammo is allowed at any major shotgun competition. All of Digweed's wins are with factory ammo. Many win rifle matches with factory ammo as well.

Every shooter on this page shoots factory ammo and wins
http://www.hornady.com/team-hornady/sponsored-shooters

A shooting buddy of mine shoots factory Creedmoor ammo and has won the Sniper's Hide Cup with it.

Your scores will improve no matter what you are shooting simply because you will improve. Can I or any of the top shooters go out with a functioning lightweight rig with known drop data and beat most people who enter? Yes

Can I or anyone go to Raton and shoot 50 or better guaranteed?

No one including me would take that bet even shooting a custom match rifle.

The fact is, and I'm sure you'll say I'm bragging or talking "schidt", that I started with a factory rifle not even close to as good as the RAR you took, with a scope that has a duplex reticle, shooting a bullet with a BC of .319 and shot 35 at the first shoot I attended.

I took it back out for fun at the end of the year and shot 45 with it. It was a top 10 finish

I guess you owe me $1500

Either that or August. I have to do more planning.



Travis

Maybe I can drive as far as CO, then jump into Tanner's VW Bug.




Travis

I'll gladly pay the $1500 for the Ric RAR... I WANT to pay for that rifle.... seriously. But.... you gotta put it together.... then put it where your Braggadocios mouth is. Please.... pretty please.... I'd LOVE to see it.

You can't answer a single direct question, but you tap-dance around them like Ricky Davis, Jr.

Bring your lightweight gun..... build a Sub-$K gun and shoot it.... or STFU.... that's it. No need to keep flapping your gluten-free pie hole on the matter. We all know you're the baddest dude on the planet with a rifle... you've told us a number of times.... and we've all seen the yardage marked kills. I'd just like to see your badassness with an actual hunting rifle... that's all.

Dogshooter,

Why do you care!? If you don't respect the guy ignore him. Most us don't know if you two are the same guy playing good cop bad cop.

Somebody shoot me if I ever get drunk and start talking about moving to Oregon.

I'm the bad cop..... and I believe in Sparta. It's my thread..... you could ignore the whole thing.

Ric has talked a lot of schitt on this post.... I, for one, would love to see it.... and I'm willing to put dough up to see it get done.

Dog, I'd like to be shooting with you and my POS rifle and scope. It cost less than a 1000.00. I'm not sure I could handle Digweed, I'd be laughing too much. But seriously, If Digweed makes it down, I'll gladly buy his a$$ a coldy!!!

Either way I don't care. I just want to shoot and have fun.

Hope to see you guys there.

Pretty sure I'm Digweed..... I think it's Gaelic for "he who can't stand hypocracy"....

Bring that rifle, we'll have fun.... Ric is a actually a pretty awesome guy to shoot with. He knows the course, knows how to shoot it, and really is a nice dude. It'll be cool to see how well a seasoned vet can run it with an 8lb gun.... though I'm pretty certain the results will be a little different than he thinks.

The course will give you a pretty good idea of the kind of shots you should be able to make in a hunting situation (if you shoot it with your hunting gear)..... it'll tell you if your equipment is up to par.... it'll tell you if your dope is good.... and it will give you a good report card on places to emphasis when practicing on the future. Though..... I don't think a Sporter Rifle will ever be able to hang with a Sporting Rifle of the course of the entire day.

I've come to the simple conclusion that I'd WAY rather shoot a 40 with an actual hunting rifle..... than clean the course with a game gun.... any day. I have tremendous respect for guys that can hit stuff consistently way out there with hunting rigs..... not so much for the game gun guys....

How many folks fire forty rounds in one day of big game hunting?

Maybe I can get EHG to show up with that POS 308 lightweight rig of his.

Not me.

I average 10-20.



Travis

I'M Digweed you peasant-rifle pimpin' fugk.





Digweed

We'll get loaded the night before.

It will add to the realism of big game hunting.



Travis

Been known to happen.... just bring a ratchet strap and be prepared to drink outta the toilet....

When you can remember to bring the right ammo for your gun...........

So, how do you practice? Fire a single round, then go home and do it all over again tomorrow?

Disclaimer: I have very little knowledge of Long Range Shooting competitions or how they work.




Can you explain this a little more? I would assume that if two competitors have a similar skill set and knowledge, the accuracy of a rifle has a big impact on the final score. Just curious on the reasoning. Thanks

smokepole,



I'm sure this is a gotcha question. Never the less, I will answer it with a real answer. And give you the last word.

Once I had my Savage .257 Weatherby dialed in for load and sighted in I did, in fact, fire one shot per day for six days to check the cold bore impact. The six shots made a group of 1 1/16".

Today I took two rifles to the range. One I fired three shots to check for a maximum load and the other I fired four shots to see how it would group without the brake.

But back to the original question I asked. Do you fire forty rounds in one day while hunting big game?

Not true. Not even close.

Different games have different accuracy needs.

For example, a 1/4" rifle would be considered junk in Benchrest. I'm talking about Precision Rifle Competitions such as The Sniper's Hide Cup, Steel Safari, Heat Stroke Open, TPRC, etc. The SRM is similar, but is considered to be extremely easy in comparison.

Although a 1/2 MOA or better rifle sure gives you confidence, for Precision Rifle it's common wisdom that a 1 MOA rifle is good enough to win any match. The reason for this is that your shooting positions on most stages will be so unstable that they negate the need for one-hole accuracy.

During sight-in at the 2013 and 2014 Steel Safari's, the groups my rifles were shooting were pretty bad. 1 MOA + and they didn't instill confidence before day one. All you can do is to go with it and do your best. I finished Runner up in 2013 and won it in 2014. I will guarantee that there were multiple rifles in the field that were shooting better, but the shooters steering them weren't.

Thanks

Ringman, perhaps I should clarify. I didn't ask how you check POI, I asked how you practice shooting.

There's only room enough for one Digweed here. You guys are going to have to Indian wrestle to settle this one. But I'll put my money on Digweed, whomever he turns out to be......lol

Are you kidding me? Half the people here are digweeds. The other half are my friends.

Smoke and I are from Colorado..... I bet our Digweed is WAY better than your Digweed.....

Nukl'r....

There is a RAR-P in 6.5 Creedmoor in the free classifieds for $375 shipped. $375 down, $625 left in your budget.

Ain't happenin.....

Practiced on some small "plates" today.... it didn't miss much...

How long has it been since Colorado has been that green this late in the calendar year?

Blood makes the grass grow!