www.estateauctioneers.com

On the website click AUCTIONS at the top of the page. It is the auction showing the Savage pistol. There are 150 of Johns items, about half pistols half rifles. The 2nd auction will be in Oct.

lots of pistols, wonder if the Oct. is the better specimens

I miss John. The only bright side to this is that I got to photograph his engraved and special feature rifles before they are scattered to the four winds.

Sad to see a collection like that scattered to the winds. Should put a lot of smiles on plenty of faces though.

I don't know a thing about Savage pistols but I do know there are some rare and very desirable rifles in that batch.

I have a few that I am going to investigate further. One I would really like to have if it doesn't get too crazy.

Quite a collection, I hope those guns all go to good homes.

Some beautiful rifles in that auction, good luck to members here bidding it would be nice to see them land back among John's fellow collectors

Johno

Anybody do any good tonight?

I wanted several, but only brought one home. For the most part, people wanted those guns more than I did.

Was great fun watching it though!

Those 25 ACPs went higher than the 45. Didn't see that coming.

I wanted to bid on the very first gun. That 300 RS that went for 550. Couldn't get my damn bid button to work in time!

Anyway, Hope John's guns all went to good homes.

Glad to have the one I got.

https://www.proxibid.com/Antiques-a...rms-Virtual-Auction/event-catalog/202922

Results for those interested

Same problem.. For having sling and swivels, that gun went too low.


I think there's a lot fewer 25 ACP's than there are 45's. Not that there are many 45's.. but still a lot less 25's.

https://www.proxibid.com/Firearms-M...l-99F-in-243-Win/lotInformation/62258672

Another one that went too cheap

Probably be up on GI for 1795 next week...

I thought a few prices were high, but not like some of the prices we saw over the last 18 months. I thought a few were pretty low. 99R in 308 for $775? Seems way low to me.

How many will show up on tommyguns for a 50% - 150% markup soon?

https://www.proxibid.com/Firearms-M...l-99R-in-308-Win/lotInformation/62258809

Another one that flew in under the radar.

Too many nice guns being offered at the same time and place.

Course you have to add the 18% buyers premium, but there were still some deals to be had like Rory said....

You are absolutely right about that.

Market saturation can overwhelm buyers and depress price on the more common stuff, especially when there was all that eye candy.

I watched a few of them and glad I was working making money instead of home drinking whiskey!

Thankful for the opportunity.

The Rentzke engraved gun was a bargain at $2,300.00

One of the guns I think was possibly the most significant was lot 150, the Tue engraved 1895. I was with John when he bought this from Bailey Brower, the negotiations were not all the friendly and were getting awkward so I left, when I got back it was John's gun. The gun is pictured in Bailey Brower's book on Savage Pistols on page 4. The owner pervious to Bailey was the one who had it 'restored' by Turnbull, he usually had the tables to Johns right at the shows. His story on it was that it had been a left over barreled receiver that the company gave to Enoch Tue when he was looking for employment to do an example of his work. He also said it had been owned previously by Roe Clark. He, or his father, decided to get it made into a complete rifle. He also mentioned that Turnbull may have touched up the engraving a little . I thought some of the finest lines in the engraving seemed to fade out where they should have continued and the edges were not as sharp as they should be. The Callahan letter states that the entry line for this one is blank which fits with it being a left over barreled receiver.

I find it hard to use the term 'restored' for this one because it was supposedly just a barreled receiver when sent to Turnbull and it was not returned to an original configuration since that was not known, they used 1899 style wood. I see it is described as "Stocks are checkered highly figured walnut with special order checker pattern" - special order from Turnbull. When I heard the story I thought it a real shame it was not kept as it was to show the earliest know Tue work for Savage just as he left it.

I had a few on my list but only got one, and I don't think it was a bargain. It was more for sentimental reasons, I used to sit for hours with John when he was a regular table holder at OGCA and am familiar with some of those guns, I remember when he bought several of them and a couple spent time in my basement when I worked on them for him - I posted pictures of a couple of the projects a few years ago, one was lot 73, the 32-40 with a Malcolm side mount, when he got the gun it did not have a scope and I found one and mounted it for him, it was included in a post along with 3 of my rifles with Malcolm scopes. I was at John's table when he bought two project 1920's, one was a 20/26 that was just a couple bags of parts, that is the 1920/26 that I posted a thread about putting together, that one was not in this auction group. The first 1899 I got was also the first John bought that started his Savage collecting, it's really rough, he gave it to me after helping him with some projects so I would have an example to use for future projects and not have to borrow one anymore.

I see they are saying more to come on a October sale does one believe there are more 99’s in the estate?

Buyers premium is really only 14.5 percent if u pay with a card as compared to other sales everyone wants 3.5% to run a card. I was at a work event and on my phone I could get the button to work as planned but probably saved me money, I got the one I wanted. Surprised a bit on the 358 and 375 I see them sell for more locally no matter the model.

Does anyone know is there more PE’s in his collection?

I don't think there are any more PE's or DE's.

I bought the 800,000 99-R... John did well on that one. Bought three .380's that I needed to fill holes. Bid on several rifles that others with deeper pockets went home with.

Fun watching the "$100 a click" wars...until you are one doing the clicking.

Yea, but you only live once, and it is time LOL

I was hoping a PE in 243 was gonna pop up on the list so I could see the click wars begin. I need to make space soon anyway, sell off a a few that are just taking up space.

Good eye on the 800K serial number.

Didn't notice that one.

I got the 250A with the 22" barrel.

So there were no 20's or 20/26's in this auction and I know John had some, maybe many. I expect to see some in the second auction. I had a super sweet 20/26 in 250-3000 some years ago that I should not have sold but did and later learned it eventually wound up in John's collection that I my try to get back.

So calling dibs on that one...

There are no 20 or 26's on John's list of rifles yet we know he had at least one. There is one in the next auction but it is listed as a .30-06. I'll flag them to double check the caliber. The rifle might not be John's. Serial 12695.

That 22" 250A is the last in that group that I need but I had too many irons in the fire to bid on it. Looked like a nice rifle.

I have not been able to find either the date or auction listing for the next John Wright auction. Can someone point me in the right direction?

Thanks.

The only 1920 or 20/26 in 30-06 that I'm aware of is the pre-production long action proto-type military rifle.

The long action 1920 pre-production proto-type sporting rifle that is listed in the R&D long book as being chambered in 30-06 is actually short chambered in 256 Newton. Mark Beneson sold it to John Smyrl and then Bruce Jennings got it from Smyrl's estate. Jernnings' daughter sold it to settle his estaste, no idea where it went or where it is today.

#12695 was the 1920/26 in 300 Sav. that I put together for John. There is a link above to that project detailing what was done to it and which parts are not original. I also put a note under the buttplate with some details of what was not original.

I did some minor work on another 1920 for him a year or two prior to that but I do not know if he kept that one.

Oct. 16 28 if memory serves me. Not yet posted.

Is the machine gun going into the auction on the 28 I think

The Lewis gun is gone. John sold it evidently. Don't know where it went.

His next auction is Oct. 28

The Lewis box is at my house with other items that John asked RickR and I to dispose of for the family. We have been reviewing the auction write ups for errors and have lists of the Savage rifles/pistols that John owned and have/will be auctioned.

We don't have the powder cans, reloading tools or Savage ammo.

Lucky for me.

They turn up every once and a while. 243s more common that 250s. But you already know that....

I've seen a lot of 20" 250's but not too many 22" with condition.

250A with 20 " barrel seem fairly common. When you do see an A with a 22" barrel, it's usually a 243, occasionally a 308. I I would say the 250A with a 22" barrel is not rare, but fairly uncommon.

I think late in the production run of the A's when they went to 22" standard barrels, they were probably selling twenty 243s for every one 250.

Do you think the ammo, powder cans will go to auction

Round 2 is up.

The model 20 is listed as a 30-06 Government, but there is a picture of the barrel that says 300 Savage.

Edit: It's actually a 20/26....

Did Savage ever refer to it as a 20/26?

Was John Wright a forum member here?

Yes

"cmhjohn" I believe was his call sign.

Not sure if it ever appeared in print, somebody else could answer that, but it was definately a different animal with the Lyman 54, no dovetail for rear sight cut in barrel and sling swivel studs. I think there was more wood in the stock as well. They felt heavier to me than the early model 20's which probably helped tame the recoil some especially in the 300

I don't recall seeing that. Usually called "Improved Model 20" or just "Model 20" in the catalogs and price lists after 1926.

Of course, it was called the "Model 20" before 1926 also.

No, but it has become the common descriptoin to differentiate between the early/original style of the Model 1920 and the "improved"/ater style of the Model 20.

Savage referred to it as the 'Improved Model 20' in a couple bifold brochures,; the 'Model 20 - 1926' in a 1927 Jobbers price list (the left over inventory of the earlier version was called the 'Model 20 - 1925'); 'Model 1920 - 1926 design' in the 1928 pocket catalog; 'Model 20-1926' in a Jan 1928 wholesale price list; just 'Model 20' in catalog # 65 from 1928.

This one is very late without a cutout for a stripper clip, it has had some repair work and as I mentioned above it has some non-original parts, one of which is the butt plate which they describe as "Butt plate is smooth blued steel".

Here's the link I mentioned above with more information on it - savage-1920-26

Charlie has it. If he was going to auction it it should have been in the 2nd auction that just posted but it is not. I don't know what his plan is.

I picked up 5 which I'm happy to have had the opertunity. decent 1895 carbine pictured in David's book, 1899 high condition 28" octagon barrel engraved c checkered B, and english walnut,which I felt was the best honest clean engraved one in auction , 30 inch 25-35 1899C ( cause its pretty hard to find one that letters), and the 38-55 high condition saddle carbine that I actually seen back in 2012 from Wes Adams collection. funny it sold for $1600 more in 2012 at julias then I paid now so I'm happy.

The gentleman certainly had a fine collection.

I
I was sleeping on the job. I new you did that 32-40 for John, and I think it was a good deal. I’m sitting on the funds for a rifle that is selling next month. If I had of been awake I would have driven it up a bit. I would have liked that one.

At least one of John's guns has now been sold by Tommy Guns. A 1950's 99R, lot #9, SN 744688 - bought for $675 plus juice (about $800 total) and sold by tommy for $1899.

https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...vage-99r-300-savage.cfm?gun_id=101745874




I would expect a 99R in 308, and a RMEF rifle to also show up soon.

Holy markup, Batman! 😲

Nothing quite to that degree, but there's a couple LGS around here that hit all the local estate sales and buy up the cheap junk, then a couple week's later you see grandpappy's old beater break action shotgun on the shelf for 3-4x the peanuts they paid for it.

Be interesting to see the markup on the 308. That gun went cheap.

Without the damage to the left side panel, I think it would have gone a lot higher. I still expected it to hit a grand or so. Tommy might put that one on gunbroker?

I was looking for that to happen.

I don't begrudge the man. Any of us could have bought those guns and done the same thing.

What I would really like to know is the actual selling price on the guns he puts up. Easy enough to see on gunbroker but not so cut and dry on GI. Are people paying full price? Or is there some room for negotiations in the asking price?

I've never bought a gun from them...

Not sure about GI, but GA you can haggle since financial transactions can be made directly buyer/seller, in the end it just says sold once msrkrd by the buyer. Since GI works more as a listing site than a store like GA, I imagine it may be the same.

I bought my 1899A on GA and actually ended up with an entirely different rifle for a different price than the one I had clicked "buy" on, after talking with the seller, who had several for sale at the time.

I've bought guns on GI before, just not from Tommy.

Negotiations are the norm. Sometimes the price is firm, sometimes not, but nobody sees the final price except the buyer and seller. You see a gun marked sold, but nobody knows for sure what it sold for...

I take it this guy is well known?

Tommy Guns, or the guy who buys guns off proxibid and flips them thru Tommy's shop? But yes.. both. Tommy Guns advertises guns for far over what would be considered retail, and they sell. For how much we don't know. If anybody here wants guns, buy them off of auction and not after the price gets jacked up 250%.

Tom lists his guns as consignment guns for the most part. I have bought several from him and have paid the long dollar each time. He does NOT sell junk and he comes up with some pretty hard to find ones. The K in 250-3000 with the 24" barrel, and a checkered F in 30-30 win are the last 2 I bought from him. He is great to talk to and by no means hard to deal with. I think for the most part you pay his price. Any others want to step up and elaborate?

I think the guy knows Savage 99’s as well as most of anyone selling regularly, he gets way better guns to list than anyone and he is the only guy that will consistently call u if ur on a list looking for a certain gun. On pricing, you think his clients are bitching, no way! If you don’t like the prices step aside. Far as anyone with a bunch of 99’s is concerned he should be getting thank you notes for keeping the prices where someone can actually make a buck!

Free country if the price is to high step aside or make a offer And see what happens, but most are too cheap And just are keyboard bandits. This is not 1960 get over it the hang tag on one of my PE’s is $385!

So... I should be thanking the guys that bought all the ammo and powder out of the stores for 18 months so they could resell it at a gun show making themselves a huge profit? Because it made my ammo, that I'm not selling, more valuable?

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that.

I'm lucky enough to live where they're pretty low demand, so usually when a 99 pops up in an LGS, the prices are relatively low. The flip side is you just don't see very many. I have seen 3 since I got interested in Savages about 4-5 years ago and I own 2 of them. The other I had no interest in a few months ago, but the price was more than fair compared to what I've seen them selling for online.

(added) Gotta agree with Calhoun on that. The price gouging this go-around has gotten pretty ridiculous, and is partly self-driven by extreme scalping as well as supply shortage.

It's not worth getting emotional about any of this. Nothing that's happening is wrong, or even ethically improper in our wonderfully capitalist country.

I just wish I could locate a few buyers who want 95% 99R's in 300 Savage for $1900. I'd sell them... Daddy needs a new Leader Grade!

Amen.

And whatever happened to "we're all in this together"? When schit is hitting the fan, I guess all thoughts of solidarity go out the window and "I got mine, screw you" becomes the new norm. Sad.

Try an online listing? If that one sold, maybe yours would too.

With the prices the old 340/840 rifles are going for these days vs what I paid for it, I am seriously considering selling mine to partially fund another 99. I hardly ever shoot the thing, anyway.

Wasn't even 2 years ago (pre covid) you couldn't even give a high condition post war R away. There was one on gunbroker for $550 for months and months that didn't sell.

This thing goes up and and it goes down...as any of us that have been in this a while know.

Buy low, sell high.

Dick & Craig
Wildwood

Now.. Tommy Guns

Really?? Very interesting...

My 1899A came from Wildwood, have their prices gone way up? I haven't really been in the market lately to look around. I got mine fairly cheap.

Once upon a time they were really high. That was quite a while ago, at least it’s been quite a while since I was at a gun show looking at an overpriced 99 and heard “That’s what Wildwood sells them for”.

And I even bought one from them a couple years ago, after years of swearing I never would.

In regards to sellers using them to set gun prices. I don’t think the first two ever bought up lots of guns off of auctions.

Rory, come on man. You can not put Dick and Craig anywhere CLOSE to the class of firearms Tom Mitchell offers. To the best of my knowledge Dick and Craig aren't in business together anymore. Those two were absolute shysters'.

I think you'd be hard pressed to be unhappy with the quality gun you'd get from TG. I sold Craig a T in 300 for a grand (only because I replaced it with a mint one). And the last I knew he was trying to turn it for 2K.

They just had what I was looking for in my budget. I was actually looking for a 30-30, but they had a handful of 303s for lower prices. I ended up buying a different one than I had contacted them to purchase. Cosmetically it is in better shape than what I was going to buy, but it needed a rotor spring and sights, so I got it quite a bit cheaper. It's no collector piece by any means, but I was looking for a shooter/hunting rifle.

It was just under $400 including the shipping, Feb 2020. Shoots better than I do, so I'm happy. It's probably my favorite rifle now, just put 20 rounds through it yesterday.

Everybody has the right to ask whatever they want for their guns and everybody has the right to buy or pass.

I don't think any longer or harder about it than that.

Sorry but what was John’s name on 24hr ?

cmhjohn

Tom is a heck of a nice guy. He helped me on something he didn't have to. He's living the dream and I think most of the guys complaining are just jealous.

I got a 250 like that. Paid 450, but it’s not in that good of shape

Thank you

Supply and demand .

A friend sold his GMC Sierra with 56,000 miles on for $7,000 MORE than what he paid for it new because of the chip shortage .

Funny , nobody called him a shyster or scalper .

Well, he didn't drive it off the lot, turn directly around drive back onto the lot, and then sell it to the next person who pulled into the lot looking for a truck, so that's a bit of the old apples and oranges.

No it's not - because that's exactly what the new purchaser did .

Your logic has no depth to it .

It doesn't matter if HE did it , what matters is that it was done that way .

You obviously have not owned a business . The object is to make money and not to break even .

I do not, but I do manage a facility that cranks out gross quantity products. I am well aware of how expenditures and overhead vs income works.

Nice to know you get hot, tingly feelings about ripping people off, though.

(added) Also curious that you single me out for rebuttal, when I was just agreeing with already mentioned sentiments in the thread 🤔

Except that is NO demand for $1900 1950's 99R's. None. Zero. Zilch.

If there's a demand, show me a few more 99R's in 300 that sold for $1900 or above. There's a ton of 1950's 99R's in 300, so should be easy to find.

The seller's name is now worth a 25%-50% premium to any gun he sells. The gun itself wouldn't sell for that much in any other venue. In fact it just sold for 40% of what somebody paid this seller.

Do you spend 25% to 50% more for a truck because it's being sold by a nice dealer? Would you consider that sane?

Obviously rare guns fall into a different category. They are hard to find. When the RMEF gun shows up for goodness knows how much, can you blame a guy for spending that much when only 60 were made?

But it will still be far above "market value", because market value isn't set by one person. It's set by the market. A reasonable market value was set last month on a public auction.

But this was a very, very nice 99R in 300. Anybody who wants one can find one fairly easily, I've got one with a hang tag. Anybody is free to spend their money the way they want.. but $1900 is cray-cray.

I’m not singling you out , no need to get sensitive . I’m sure there’s a safe space and an extra therapy dog for you . If that doesn’t work I’m sure we can get you some Thorazine .

My post was for you AND the folks who share your sentiment .

Ripping people off would insinuate that the purchaser had a gun to his head . Like Long Beard King said : if you don’t want to spend the money , move out of the way .

There's obviously a demand if it sold .

Who cares that there is a premium associated with the sellers name ? ( full disclosure : I don't know and haven't done any business with aforementioned seller ) .

25% - 50% premium because of a nice seller ? Nope . But what is equally insane is worrying about something that is totally out of your control .

Sounds like you need a hug. Also, I hate dogs 😉

I'm sure you do .

Remember , it's not your money/labor/resources you're playing with .

And now we're back to Dick & Craig and Wildwood.

Those prices get reflected into gunshops and gunshows with folks like you, who think that Tommy Gun prices are the new market prices. That the demand for 99's is so extreme that 99R's in 300 can demand almost a $2000 price tag. So 99's get marked at 200% of their true market price, which does affect anybody who collects. And it affects those shops/sellers - because they get stuck with a gun they can't sell for what they were misled into thinking was it's value.

But nobody has said I'm worrying about anything... I've seen this circus come through town several times. I won't buy from Tommy, why should I pay the name premium? If I want something, I'll be bidding against the flipper on the online auctions who gets it for 40% of what Tommy sells it for. In fact I think UPS delivered my take today.

I never said that one auction was the new trend . To analyze the market , you need more than one data point .

You guys don't appreciate folks posting live auctions , but all you do is bash the auctions after the gavel falls with your bitching/griping/complaining about the realized prices .

Let people post live auctions and do all the above banter while it's happening to let the prospective bidders know how much the listed arm is NOT rare , has NO condition and is JUNK . This way here your perceived influence will keep a $300 rifle a $300 rifle . This way the only folks that are soured by your comments are the sellers , not the sellers and buyers .

You don't have to tell people you are worried about marked up prices , your raillery says it .

What auction is being bashed? gunsinternational.com is not, and never has been an auction site.

Are you referring to the auction prices from John's auction? I thought a few things went high, I thought some things went low, but most seemed in line with my expectations. In other words, it was a normal auction. I don't know that anybody is bashing that.

No , the fact that Tommy Gun bought the R and flipped it for $1800 ...

Don't get me wrong , you guys are undeniably a great Savage resource , but this bashing of realized prices - whether auction or full-blown retail turns a lot of folks off .

For me , I don't care either way because it affects me none . I see something I want , I buy it .

I was called crazy for spending 4K on a mint 1937 G in 250-3000 back in 2006 that looks like it just came out of the factory . I regret it none .

Did I overspend ? Maybe

I think there's some confusion..

Tommy Guns doesn't buy these guns off of proxibid. Somebody else does, and flips them through Tommy Guns. So I have NO complaints against Tommy Guns selling these guns. He runs a business, he's making money. And I don't care if somebody buys from him.. everybody has the right to spend their money on whatever they want.

But I have a lot of people I consider friends here. If any of them are tempted by Tommy Guns rifles, I think it's a nice thing to do to let them know they can buy the same exact guns for far, far less if they watch the auctions. If they want to. If their life is too busy to watch auctions or they miss one and Tommy gets it, more power to them if they buy from him.

My one pet peeve is probably the misperception that Tommy Guns prices are "market prices". It's obviously true they aren't, since most guns I see him sell I can trace back to a recent "market sale" for far less.

The ONLY reason I even posted that this 99R was sold thru Tommy Guns is because I was talking to a fellow collector on Monday who asked me if Tommy had sold any of John's guns yet. I said I had no idea, but a few hours later because of his comment I noticed that one gun had and so I posted a finished, non-auction sale here. It obviously was of interest, lots of folks commenting.

I wonder if that Tommy guy eavesdrops here. My guess would be does, and if so is laughing the whole way to the bank.

The people I really shake my head over are the saps that have more money than good sense and spend way more for stuff they just gotta have, simply because they can.

We're all guilty of that. I mean... Vintage English cars...

Have bought many guns from Tommy Guns. He only deals with consignment guns. He's a great guy to work with. I would think that some of you would be happy that he is getting the money for 99's that he is. It used to be that they were the cheap guns and this isn't 1969 anymore. Also anyone who buys from him knows that they are getting a good quality gun because that's all he sells.

Yeah, but I got mine on a widely based internet auction, and at a price about 3/4 of it's value. I passed on equal, lesser, (and better) cars for a lot more money as I shopped, even though I had a bankroll big enough (and wanted one badly ).

Anyone know of a good cheap MG-TC?

A few months back I asked around for info on an old scope for Tommy. No one grumped that he might actually sell it, which he did, to a member of this forum. The member talked him into a 3 gun bundle, and was happy to share the Sidle scoped rifle with us at Noxen.

Amen!!!’n

Really? Really! Guys telling other guys how or how not to spend their own money. How's that work with your wife? Just saying.

Hypothetical conversation...

A Friend: "Hey George, I've known you for 15 years and we get along pretty good. I noticed you buy your ammo at Dick's Sporting Goods. Did you know they are anti-2A and higher priced than the local gunshop? You might want to take a look at them and save a bunch of money."
George: "HOW DARE YOU TELL ME HOW TO SPEND MY MONEY!!!!"
A Friend: "What the [bleep]????"

What I buy, where I buy, who I buy FROM, or how much I spend is nobody's business but my own. Very VERY seldom do I go the auction route. People get all caught up on emotion and wind up in a bidding war and we all have seen that. It is simple. Tom Mitchell offers up a gun, and by the way, he sells ANY make of gun, and gets his price, it is totally between he and the buyer. He doesn't like to type and he will tell you so. Call him and you will be pleasantly surprised. I am pretty sure he doesn't lurk on the campfire. Sometimes it takes awhile, but he gets it. Like any good business man he will deal, but the deal will most likely be on his terms.

I was quoted as saying this , (If you don't want to spend the money, move out of the way) and I must have. I think it most of the time with folks bid at auction KNOWING they will stop before market price is even approached. .

I for one am glad this topic comes up periodically. It shows newbies just how much of a disease the collecting hobby can become.

Hint: don't become a "collector". It does strange things to one's psyche!

So it's probably a good thing I'm more of a 99 enthusiast than collector? 🤔🤣

Join the club!

On a totally different subject... though maybe we haven't explored this one in-depth enough? Anyway..

Got in my rifles in from John's estate auction last night. UPS gorillas pretty much totally destroyed the boxes they were shipped in, but fortunately each gun was wrapped in about 3" of bubble wrap and came through okay. It was sad to open up the invoice and read the included factory letters from JTC to John, he'd given me the serial numbers and dates for all his letters in April to help refine date ranges for the book.

To absent friends.

[quote=Calhoun]On a totally different subject... though maybe we haven't explored this one in-depth enough? Anyway..

Got in my rifles in from John's estate auction last night. UPS gorillas pretty much totally destroyed the boxes they were shipped in, but fortunately each gun was wrapped in about 3" of bubble wrap and came through okay. It was sad to open up the invoice and read the included factory letters from JTC to John, he'd given me the serial numbers and dates for all his letters in April to help refine date ranges for the book.

To absent friends.[/quote

The thought of having a gun I buy shipped to me makes me cringe. I like my fancy guns and want them to still be in the shape I bought them in when I get them. I bought a gun from that auction company before and drove to Cleveland to pick it up.

I bought a Crescent grade gun, that to date is the high point of my collection. I talked it over with the seller and he agreed to purchase a hard case. He included the shipping in the selling price and I told him I would pay for the case. I honestly didn't know Plano made such a case. The rifle made it here totally unscathed. Knock on wood, to date I have never had a gun damaged in shipping.

+1

I don't even have fancy guns and still hate shipping them... I bubble wrapped my EG as much as I could while still being able to close the box when I FedEx'd it to McGowen, and I still have doubts that the wood will return in the same shape it departed in. 😬

The honest to God truth is, I'd ship some guns to Tom Mitchell to sell for me if I wasn't so worried about getting them there intact.

I bought an Enfield No.2 MkIV (.22 single shot training rifle) earlier this year. Thanks to the C&R license, stuff like that comes directly to my door. FedEx dropped it off in the middle of a rainy night, into a water puddle outside the front door, adult signature requirement be dammed. The box was soaked so badly when I discovered it the next morning that it literally fell apart in my hands. Luckily it was so well wrapped in plastic and bubble wrap that the gun was unscathed. So yeah, I too cringe when mail ordering guns, but I still do.

Sounds like typical FedEx to me. I routinely find hazmat packages (powder/primers) in the yard beside my front step when I get home from work. Guess "adult signature required" is a bit of a loose term 🙄

I actually can't remember signing for one a single time, now that I think of it.

The "Adult Signature Required" option on UPS and FedEx was put on hold last year due to Covid and social distancing requirements. The most I had either UPS or FedEx do during that time was to ring the doorbell as they dropped the package off.

30 years at UPS and I have never had a box damaged from UPS, FedEX, or USPS. Seems that if you work with the gorillas you have an inkling of how to pack something and not have it damaged. I bought a rifle from a member here and it arrived in two ratty, been used 100 times boxes, no packing at all, not a Kleenex, and it made it fine. Miracles do happen. The only thing you have to know about shipping a rifle is it's long and skinny, and fragile. UPS puts packages up to 70 pounds in the general load.. If your long skinny rifle is in a nice cardboard box, wrapped in bubble rap, it has no structural integrity. If the muzzle is resting on a nice solid box, and the butt is on another nice solid box, but the middle is resting on a lamp shade with no stiff packing, and the gorilla puts a 70 pound John Deere wheel weight right in the middle, good chances it will snap in half. I asked my LGS owner how many rifles were damaged in factory boxes per year? He looked at me like I was nuts, and said in his almost 50 years he has NEVER had a factory boxed rifle damaged. I don't know how many people have told me THEY should not have to go through all that trouble to make sure the box doesn't get damaged. Once they give it to UPS, it's UPS's responsibility, to see that their terrible packing makes it safe, because they took it like that. That is the most asinine, stupid, stupid stupid response I've ever heard. I fretted over my 1928 K with the Noske side mount for weeks. I can't afford a real, unmolested K. This is one of my Crown Jewels. The seller couldn't get the barrel off to break it down. He finally put it in a hard case and no problems. I've had people tell me flat out, "there is no way I'm buying a hard case, over the cost of shipping, as insurance". Stupid, stupid, stupid.

I know Roy's luck, and the last time this subject came up, I believe I asked him how many of his outgoing guns were damaged. As of several years ago, I believe it was ZERO. But, he has received something like 6-7 snapped in half. One run over by a forklift. Bet none of them were in hard cases. If you got a gun shipped by me, it would not be damaged, because it's my responsibility to get it there. End of story, and rant.

I agree, any time I ship a rifle out it goes in a hard case. Never had one damaged.

But I can’t control how auction houses pack their shipments.

And I have had a rifle in a hard case damaged coming to me.. maybe two. Basic Plano, tougher than any factory rifle box I’ve ever seen. Slammed/dropped so hard that the bottom of the hard case was broken into pieces. Tang cracks resulted.

I had two 1895’s shipped to me in cardboard boxes with form fitted foam inserts and bubble wrap. Again, boxes thrown or dropped hard enough for both rifles to force their way thru the foam, thru the bubble wrap, thru the cardboard and end up with the muzzles poking out. Again tang cracks and one had chunk of wood missing.

It shouldn’t require packing reminiscent of delivering nuclear materials to get a package safely thru a common carrier.

It shouldn't but it does.

Plan accordingly.

The Ohio auction house shipped my purchase And was wrapped with three layers of wrap in a gun shipping box with ends packed, it would of took slot to hurt was impressed. Hard cases within a box are really good too.

95% of the time, I can’t. That’s just the truth. You think Roy has been the victim only because he didn’t make the shippers pack guns right? No.

A guy can ask, but in the end almost every seller is going to ship the guns the way they’ve always shipped guns. You’re not going to get Joe Schmoe in a gun or pawn shop to spend 90 minutes constructing a safe shipping continue.

Having guns shipped to you is a risk you have to be able to live with. These carriers handle millions of packages every day. Every employee, every office, every truck driver is under a microscope. And the companies, USPS included don't care how much stuff gets damaged, they only care how much stuff gets delivered. And they can't afford to fire people because there is nobody to replace them. It's just collateral damage to them. Maybe we broke 2 things but we got a thousand delivered. Like a bomb that kills 10 civilians but gets 100 bad guys. It's a game of numbers. That's it. Whining about it won't change it. It's business.

Wait… which is it? The guns are damaged because they aren’t packaged right? Or there’s just a percentage of packages that are going to be damaged because the employees don’t give a crap?

And, if as you say, there’s just crappy employees involved.. we have no right to be upset?

Hmm.

All of the above. No use complaing about it. It is what it is. When I buy a gun and it needs to be shipped, I know I am taking a chance on it getting to me safely.

This thread has really gone off into the weeds.

If I buy a firearm and it’s being shipped to my FFL , I always ship the seller a Storm/Pelican case BEFORE the item gets shipped to me (on my dime) like the style Long Beard King posted .

Included is 2 Master locks to lock the outside of the case . I get a key and he gets a key . He puts his key in the case before locking the padlocks . These cases are the best and toughest made . Large for rifles/shotguns and a small for pistols . Those cheap Doskocil/Plano Walmart affairs aren’t worth the time or effort …. Heck , the ones offered from Harbor Freight are much better if you actually need to clip coupons and are half the cost of the Storms/Pelicans .

Shipping firearms that are irreplaceable in cardboard boxes (regardless of the bubble wrap) baffles me knowing full well how these carriers treat our packages . There will always be guys who will gripe about the prospect of having to spend extra $$ shipping these empty cases to the seller before he ships as they purchase guns that are worth thousands and thousands of dollars .

You’re going to spend that money on Advil/Tylenol/Excedrin if the firearm comes in destroyed .

Step over a dollar to pick up a dime .

bulkie, I agree on rifles that are worth multi-thousands of dollars. Don't blame a guy at all for spending what amounts to a small percentage of the purchase price on "expensive" shipping. Heck, I'd probably drive 10-12 hours to pick up a really top of the line irreplaceable gun rather than ship it at all.

But my guns aren't in that range. That'd often be a 15%+ fee on each gun purchase I make.

At some point a buyer has to presume that a seller called "Rush2Arms" knows how to safely ship guns from their auction. And I didn't see the box, so I don't know if it was poorly packed in a box, or if it was extremely poor handling by the shippers that caused it to be destroyed. But bubblewrap has saved a good number of guns that have been shipped to me.

From what I'm hearing, other rifles shipped from this auction are showing up in good shape. So sounds like it just might be my shippers.

No , I understand what you’re saying . If you’re in the business of selling and shipping firearms , you should have the common sense/know-how to do it properly/professionally . Some of you folks have acquired some mighty rare/fine pieces .


I agree with you regarding driving up to 10 hours to pick something up . Most definitely .

The more you use the premium hard case to ship firearms , the cost ( $150 -$300 ) of the hard case is dissolved into much of nothing . I have used mine at least two dozen times which will equate to about an extra $12-$15 per shipment . Small taters .

I can hit $8 real quick just shipping 2 pocket reference books. What's it cost to ship a large hard case halfway across the country? I was expecting to hear $40 or more.

That's about right for an individual .

It's a different rate for businesses/corporations than it is for the average Joe .

Not worth it for a $300 rifle that can be replaced , but would do it for a $300 that can't be replaced like my mint Savage 1904 Boy's rifle.

I need to break down and buy one of those. Might pick one out for the wife to get me for Christmas.

I have a Pelican gun vault that I use when I travel on airlines with guns.

It never occured to me to send it to somebody before they ship me a gun.

That's a pretty darn good idea....

After I hit the post button, on my shipping rant, I stood up and walked into the living room, and just started chuckling. This box was setting on the couch. So, I sat on it. No butt impression, then I put it on the floor and stood on it, no Krock impressions. Not saying who shipped it, but, it did make it from Oregon to MD with no tire tracks or Go-Rilla prints on it. You don't have to go to the welding shop and have a 10 gauge steel box made. Every body says, "I wrapped it in bubble Wrap".. Take a 6' piece of bubble wrap and try to hold it out like a broom stick, you can't. So if your box is stuffed with BW, it will still bend in half. Put 4 broom sticks along the inside of the box, and pack it tight with bubble wrap, then you cant bend the box. I've taken the loppers down in the woods and cut 4, 1" Sassafras poles and put them in boxes. It doesn't take a lot of money, just some thought on how to make it rigid. As was said above, you can't make the shipper do it right. And as Randy just learned, sending a good case ahead, is a "pretty darn good idea."

I received my three from the auction, all in one box, my ffl said they couldn't have done a better job.

Got my pieces all packed very good

Another of John's guns being resold, this time from a seller named BGSUBMARINE. Really poor pictures. I've seen him advertise a lot of guns in the past on GI, you'd think he could take better pictures.


https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...aliber-half-octagon.cfm?gun_id=101758204

Proxibid picture:


GI picture:

Was that RMEF rifle currently on the auction site his?

Yep, Tommy Guns is selling John's RMEF.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/913278241

Not to continually beat a dead horse, but this gun sold just at John's estate auction for $2950 plus 18% juice plus shipping and handling.

So something just under $3600.

So to the new owner, $6120 plus sales tax plus shipping.

Damn. Some deep pockets in the game right now...

Someone was at the wrong place at the right time.

So if Tommy did not flip it himself, it was a ok deal for the buyer at auction, but Tommy does not sell for free, and gunbroker is not a free operation, he or she made out well but others made some too. Willing seller willing buyer that's how this all works.

A lot of fat in that deal even after everybody got paid off.

I say good for the guy that flipped it and got paid.

So John's estate got about $2500 for the gun after the auction house took their commission and the final bidder/current owner paid about $6500 landed for it and a lot of people including the state tax collected got in the middle of it somehow and made money on the deal.

It blows my mind that there was that much room and profit for all the fingers that were in that pie.

When the pie is big enough everyone gets a large slice LOL

99GUY are you the owner of 99pe in 243 win, in VA that does not want to sell it? LOL A gunsmith from VA told me he knew a guy but he wouldn't sell it LOL

Not me. No PE's

Darn lol

There were only 60 of the RMEF made. John's rifle, #10 with case, sold for $3000 plus then again in less than a month for $6100 plus. So where do you set the value of a RMEF rifle?

Should the 75th, 100th, PE, DE, RMEF be considered in a group of there own?

Would you consider #10 to be a "low number" worthy of a higher value?

Mr. $6100 shoulda been paying attention in September.

Bingo. They'd have gotten it cheaper, and more money would have gone to the family.

https://www.proxibid.com/Antiques-a...rms-Virtual-Auction/event-catalog/207882

Results of round 2. More of John's guns gone to new good homes.

I sat this one out. Just a spectator. I saw some of the usual suspects bidding though.

Anybody get anything they want to talk about? Saw some guns that went high, some that went reasonable, but I didn't see anything that went cheap this time, unless I missed something.

There were a lot of Colt 1911s in this auction. Does anybody know if John was into these?

Their was some good byes MHG gun brought good money some of the pistols went cheap the re done

Engraved one was a good buy.

I would have done better to have had supper then set in front of the box with my finger on the buy button

hope tomorrow I feel better about it

I found it interesting that his nicely refinished 1899A with E engraving and early B checkering brought LESS than an 1899B with shotgun buttplate in 38-55.

It's E engraved... cripes. How many of those even exist? I should have chased that one - after all, how long can the wife hold a grudge?

Welp, anyone that was ever interested in having access to a wide variety of desirable Savage rifles and pistols had it in John's auctions.

In general prices were good for seller and buyers IMO.

Having so many rifles and pistols available in a short period probably helped buyers more.

Don't think of it as a man's collection tossed into the four winds as much as a Collector spreading Savage seeds in hopes that they grow elsewhere.

Well done John.

I bid early on, never raised my bid, got two that I wanted

"There were a lot of Colt 1911s in this auction. Does anybody know if John was into these?"

I don't think any of the military items were John's.


I bought the cut-away Savage pistol. Since I have two cut-away rifles, 1899 and 99, I thought I should have a pistol to go with them. Why buy a gun you can't shoot...already have a .300 EG and wanted something different. Was hoping to pickup an 1895 or two but that didn't happen.

I got the 1933 NRA. Like usual, thanks to Gene for pointing out the details. I knew the serial for those started at 45,000, but I scanned right over this one is 45,024. Maybe first day of production, who knows? He also pointed out it had the early "Tall" rear sight. Last week I bought a 1923 NRA and it showed up yesterday. When this one shows up I'll have the 3 major variants of the 1919, then I'll post the pics I promised in another post.

As Rory was, I was following that E engraved rifle. It was going over and over in my head, you'll never get another chance. As far as the wife holding a grudge? All I would have to do is get rid of 10-15 chainsaws, and all would be well.

Oh, I did notice some of our bidders and was rooting for you guys strongly, glad you got some of the ones you wanted.

There was a pretty nice 1003 with octagon barrel that sold. First letter in the winning bidder name was G. Gene?

https://www.proxibid.com/Savage-Model-1903-in-22-S-L-or-LR/lotInformation/63861236

"I heard" it's going to WI, but not to Gene.

You know it had to be another Gene, that was Gene5. Our Gene is , Gene1

You are right that I did not get the 1903. I did bid on the 1920/26 but let it go and am now thinking I let it go way to low and should have gone much higher, I had the gun as just a stock, stripped barreled receiver, and a bag of parts in my basement for a couple years, it looks much better now that it did as a bag of parts! I would like to know the reaction of the new owner if he ever pulls the butt plate and finds my note documenting what was done to it. When I returned it to John it was the last time we got together and talked.

Gene, if you ever want to borrow the 20/26 just give a yell.

I think we should just post a list of who got what, and make it easy on every one.

Becoming clearer by the minute...

Pretty sure only a few here know me, but it was a privilege to participate in Mr. Wright’s auction. There was some disagreement about which military related items to chase, but after the first auction click war, we realized the chances of acquisition were slim and instead decided to pursue other items as an opportunity to learn. Even then, we didn’t get everything we wanted. Regardless, we are honored to acquire things from a known and respected Savage collector.

I’ve dabbled in Savage’s for a few years, but not seriously. It is Mr. Wright’s collection, the book by David Royal and this forum which has added another item to the “list”.

If anyone knows the family, please thank them for allowing others to acquire items from Mr Wright’s collection. They, and more importantly his memory will be preserved the best we can.

I mentioned this shortly after John died. I spent a few days at his farm photographing his engraved and special feature 99's for my new book on those kind of rifles. I dedicated the new book to him when the manuscript came back for some revisions.

Whoa. Did not know the book author is a member here. Good to know.

Have seen a few of the engraved model for sale at RIA, but know little about them other than super big bucks…like this one: https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/75/3127

Looking forward to your next book on engraved model 1899/99’s.

I'm not sure there's any other 1899 like that 1899..

David, do we know where the Nash rifle is? And do you have pics for the engraving book? If not, the RIA photos are pretty good and would suffice with permission.

Happened to be watching the day it was sold. Knew a little about 1899's but didn't recognize it at first. What a fantastic piece of art. I know little is known about Enoch Tue, but engraving has always fascinated me in terms of the engraver, aka artist. The skill, the time it took to learn, the patience, the pressure and hopefully a positive outcome.

All done by hand. Give me simple hand done checkering on a Winchester pre-64 model 70 or Savage any day vs a machine. I think the name for later model 99 engraving is acid etching, but could be wrong.

I've always wondered why so little is known about someone who did such fantastic engraving work like Enoch Tue. At least now, after watching the RIA video, I know how to correctly pronounce his name.

Oh, I think this group knows more about Tue than you might think....

Yes the curator pronounced the name Tue (Tew) correctly. Substantiated by Tue family in the U.K. recently.
And we do know quite a bit about the life and times of Enoch Tue as well as some Tue family members during his time at Savage Arms. Thanks to members here, Tue's in the U.K. & U.S.A.
Here is a sample. Additional info and additional Savage engraver biographies will be included in David's Savage Engraving Book.

https://www.proxibid.com/Antiques-a...854?p=2&sort=0&srchloc=true#cnTb

Still a few nice fish in this auction.

Couple of throw backs. Couple of keepers and even a couple of lunkers.

@Southern_WI_Savage: Appreciate the additional information. Looking forward to seeing the rest of the story in David’s book. Need to order the pocket reference as well. Would make a great Christmas present.

Anybody missing a factory letter from the second auction?

For what? Serial number and firearm description may help.

I know one guy that didn’t get his, but he’s since gotten another from Cody.

1899-B in .38-55.