What do you think?

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=269514719

I had a chance at a mint one about 5 years ago here in VA. I think it was 7-800 or something. I know a guy who is selling one in 303. Pretty worn though.

Prices sure have gone up since we figured out what they were.

very nice yes he got his money ,buyer got decent deal ,,actually an EG

I bet it's the same theory I have about hunting spots. I try not to go to a place on a map that has a name, because it will be more popular. My friend Scott calls me "No Trail Roy". You guys gave it a name, made it a thing, and badda bing badda boom, you got yourself a price jack.

Checkered stock, but no checkering on the forearm. Is that how these came or was the forearm replaced?

BBH, yes some of them left the factory like that... it is correct..

I bid on it when it was much lower... I think the paid price is high but that is just me...

The checkering varied by what serial number range they are, bbh. Started out like that one, then went to full EG style checkering later.

Interesting that the seller mentioned a reblue in the description

It was sold at $1,275... according to the serial number, it had a 1938 date of manufacture... clean looking, but regardless, it's 'wayyyyy over-priced @ $1,275.00 !~!~!

And that forearm looks like it might be a replacement... it's a totally different color and finish compared to that butt-stock, but hard to say.

Jus' my 2�...


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

Can one of you guys please measure the hole spacing on the front of your Spiegel, if you have the rear sight off and it's not too much trouble? Thank you in advance...

That gun looks right to me. I have seen them look just like that one.

Looks correct for the serial range and it is D&T'ed. Given the condition and quanity produced I think the price was fair.

The guy that bought it didn't think it was overpriced.

Outside of the buyer and seller who is to say what is or isn't over priced?

The price was more than I paid for either of mine, but I've had mine a few years and these things aren't falling off trees. The rifle is probably right and I don't think it has been reblued. It is extremely rare for a seller to suggest something might be reblued and it is in fact not reblued

yeah, this is the second gun in a week that I have seen listed as reblued but was not... and I am not sure where ppl are looking but I bet I see AT LEAST 6 of these for sale a year.... probably more... they are not common but I certainly would not call them rare.

Much more common is where the seller suggests it possibly could be reblued and in fact, it's been blued and buffed completely smooth.

And Worth Every Penny.

really?? Seems like a half checkered EG with a bunch of extra holes and some goofy looking roll stamp on it. Not saying I would not buy one for a reasonable price but I don't find them personally worth a 200% premium... of course that is what makes us each different...

Just to keep things straight for the new guys.... "Salesman Samples" is what Roe Clark (deceased Savage historian and past Savage Arms Company employee) called the roll stamped eg's. Those eager to rewrite history, completely ignore that little factoid. After they were used as Salesman Samples...they were lotted to Spiegel. Finding an old Spiegel ad changes that none.

Personally I think they're kinda like an early 1959 99E.

They're hard to find but still only an E. Catch my drift?

In your conversations with Mr. Clark, did he evern shed any light on what mount the rifles were drilled and tapped for? Thank you. And I'm one of the ones that paid a premium for one and have never regretted that decision.

I hear ya, Dawg. The last one I remember was at the Albany NY show...used little and showed about 50 plus years of sitting in a closet corner. I was giddy like a school kid to get an factory engraved 99 for 350$'s. I think I sold mine to Rick for about 500. Like an 1959 E...if the price is good and the condition is there...better have one.

LBK,
I don't recollect anything said about the holes or what bases belong there. If we discussed that information...it went over the dam. Best to you and Nan.

And you never will...they ain't makin um anymore.
That currency you used to buy that beautiful rifle...is just about valueless. That rifle, about priceless.

The one LBK got is almost new, bore looked to not have been fired, he still dont know how close I came to buying that one!

Close only counts in horseshoes. You talked me into making the deal a twofer!!!!!!!!!!! Remember??????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Best to you and Lulu as well!!!!!!!!!!!

interesting... I've seen at least one that letters as delivered direct to Spiegel...



They aren't engraved, they are stamped. Just saying.

I'd pay a premium for one, but it would not be a large premium.

Sounds to me like one of the Savage salesman walked into the Speigel's administrative offices with a "sample" and Speigel was so taken with them that they placed an order for a few hundred.

Has anyone collected any data on how many have actually surfaced?

I think Rick has data, imagine that

He said mine is the lowest number that he has seen, but mine does not letter to Speigels 359,623 in 303 sav.

I also have 371508 EG that is drilled and tapped the same as the Salesman's sample rifle with the same sling swivels but no roll stamp or any checkering. It is a 30-30

Interesting. Mine is 392XXX and is .303.

I have data on around 25. Most were produce in 1938, 39 & 40. This also means that they were produced after the 371xxx point where there is no factory data. Most are EG .300's. Most have the B&M D&T'ed holes but not all B&M D&T'ed rifles are roll engraved. The B&M'ed rifles start as early as 1934.

I've never understood the concept of handing sample rifles out to salesmen that was a combination of features that couldn't be ordered. Why not just give them a 99K as a sample? Or a 99RS? Both of which were their premier products at the time, as opposed to the uncheckered EG.

I know it's heresy to some folks to suggest this.. but Roe wasn't around at Savage in the 30's, and maybe he just made a very logical mistake.

Most salesmen in the 30's loved to drink, probably were afraid of them dropping the rifle



Actually it was half checkered, poor fellow was so tired after doing the butt stocks he just skipped the forestocks

You've got one of the few that could be lettered.. you done that yet?

It letters as having been shipped to Kennedy Bros Nov 3 1936, no other information on the model as JTC says from the information provided it is a Model 99EG. No W.O. # or mention of roll stamping or drilling and tapping.

Thanks for that info. Quite a gap between yours and the next one, at least as far as I've jotted down in my notes. 359,xxx to 376,xxxx. The forearm checkering showed up sometime after 376,xxx - I would guess around 388,000'ish when the EG's got checkering?

My earliest checkered EG is 392,xxx in 30-30.

I have 384,xxx checkered EG and I know Ralph has (had?) one with in 50 serial numbers that is checkered also. Both 22HPs.

Yep, except for two or three 22HP's I have no standard checkered EG's in my list until 387148/388,7xx. I have others at 383,063/384,5xx/385,679 that are not checkered.

here are a couple of Spiegel specials that were at a small auction this summer that I was at but did not buy them... they sold very reaonably...neither of these actually had Rocky Mountain front sights, I have pictures of both and other than the damage and changes listed, they were legit. Both had forearm checkered also...

Serial # 394882, .303 SVG, 22" standard barrel with very good bore with light frosting in the grooves. Manufactured in 1940. This pre-war '99 has some enhancements including a checkered buttstock and forend, a grip cap and engravings on both sides of the receiver. It has perhaps 70% of the original blue remaining and 80% case color on the lever. The original varnished wood finish is in very good condition. The buttstock has a repair at the top left front; brass studs are set in the sling swivel holes. The rear sight is a Lyman tang-mounted aperture, the front is a Savage "Rocky Mountain" blade and a Rocky Mountain semi-buckhorn (minus its elevator) is mounted on the barrel. The receiver bridge is NOT drilled for a scope mount. Overall condition is good. (500-600)

Serial # 393302, .300 SVG, 24" standard barrel, manufactured in 1940. This pre-war '99 has some enhancements including checkering on the forend and pistol grip, a grip cap and engravings on both sides of the receiver. It retains 90% of its original bluing and case coloring, with most of the wear at the carry point. The original vanish finish rates very good. There is an almost unnoticeable chip at the toe of the buttstock. 1" swivel slings are installed. The front sight is a small blade; the rear is a Savage "Rocky Mountain" semi-buckhorn. The receiver bridge is NOT drilled for a scope mount. Overall condition is good plus. (500-600)

There were at least a half a dozen other 99s at this auction including a not often seen 99D and a pretty nice 99F with a 1" stith and a Weaver K4.

Drew, did they have the B&M mount holes? From the "The receiver bridge is NOT drilled for a scope mount." statement I would suppect that they did.

I don't recall but I would assume so, they had the roll stamp. The 303 had previously had sling swivels but the holes were filled. The 300 still had the correct sling swivels.

I have pictures but they are in a PDF ...not sure how to get them out and up to PB.

Are those the same roll stamps that the model 430's had?

They look identical to my 20 ga.

I have not compaired them side by side but I think they are identical.

My two are: #392,1xx and 394,8xx

I have 386396 Spiegel in 300 sav, both checkered.

Steve, I have one with the same seril...394,8xx.

The rolled stamping on the Spiegel/Salesman Sample 99's is identical to the rolled stamping on Savage 420's and 430's. What does this mean if anything? All were produced about the same time frame. Maybe just a quick embellishment to help sell. Tom

They were primarily EG's

So- Savage went to checkered from uncheckered stocks on the EG sometime in the late 30's, correct or no?
If that is the case, big if because I don't know, could the roll stamped rifles just be leftover uncheckered stocks installed on "new" EG's with the checkered butt and a stamping and sling studs added to help sell the bastardized rifle? Remember this would have been early post depression.
Also, maybe they were experimenting with roll stamping for the shotguns and the whole 99 package made sense to use up parts and embellish an otherwise funky rifle????
Is there roll stamping in any numbers at Savage prior to this time? Was all previous embellishment done by engraving rather than roll stamping? Roll stamping was surely a cost savings.
What scope mount fits the "Speigel" rifle?
Mine is 300 Savage, 377,xxx. Drilled under rear sight, not drilled in front bridge, uncheckered forearm, checkered butt, sling loops.

Just questions from a Savage nerd.

Was especially hoping someone knows what scope mount fits this rifle. Belding and Mull?

Belding & Mull. Beyond rare.

I have an ad for it from an old discussion here but can't get it to open for some reason.

Looks like this might have it?? Is this a year or two earlier than the Spiegel Rifles?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Belding-Mul...=Vintage_Hunting&hash=item5654e53167

I know it gets old, but I must continue to point out that the B&M theory on Spiegel rifles came from a public guess made on this forum and has never been proven to be correct, yet it continues to be spoken as fact.

No one has ever turned up a B&M mount to prove that the holes in the mount match the rifles.

The B&M scope and mount look nothing like the Spiegel catalog page showing the rifle and scope.

I'm going on info from FUG I believe. Have never second guessed his word but maybe he wasn't the one.

Nor would I second guess FUG, I dont recall him settling this, but would gladly eat crow if served.

I thought it was Loggah. I don't second guess him often either, but when I do I make sure I do it from a long ways away.

Gary, or anyone else, do you have a drawing of the B&M mount for the Savage 99 rifle? Is the above drawing it? I would love to see the drawing in the Spiegel catalog too. Just trying to learn this, sorry to be a pita.

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/4904481/1

http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?220217-Speigel-Gun-question

these may be same as the above , or not.


https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...s/3886680/Re_Belding_Mull_Scopes_on_Sava

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/2256473/6

I have #37725x in 250-3000 D&T`d under the sight............ I don`t remember how it`s checkered.

Bob

Anyone carrying around the hole spacing and approx height measurements needed for the front mount in their wallet when attending gunshows? Might be walking by them w/o knowing. We have a local guy with a good mount selection, I might have to go shopping..

The hole spacing matches the lyman target blocks for the 99. I have a set at work and can get it for you tomorrow.

Bringing this back up!

I have a .250-3000 Spiegel gun. It has the scope mount holes. Has holes on the side of the stock where the medallion was mounted (it's gone now).

It is not checkered. Also no stamp on receiver.

Manufactured in 1937 Serial No. 3674xx.


I thought it was just an uncheckered EG with a few extra holes until I went to the 2019 Fest and a couple of the guys realized it was a Spiegel gun.

Nice to know that there are some honest guys who helped this rookie!

Yep, falls squarely in the serial number range for the "unengraved" Spiegels.

Without the roll stamp, it's hard to spot these.

Glad to help. I couldn't believe what I was seeing, went on babbling about it for two days. Always wanted the uncheckered 250 EG and there it went. Oh well. John, glad you joined up!

22" barrel too I suppose?

Pre war 250 EG with 22" barrel on the short list here.

Damn.

Yep. Maybe John will post some photos of it.

John if you want a matching 300 Savage to go with the 250, check this out


https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...es-99/savage-99-300.cfm?gun_id=101282983

I'm gunna regret not buying this one too.

Thanks. Been on in the past as JacksPa but cam't remember password!

It was "Jacks Pa". You might retry with the space. I can't help with the pass word. Signed up 1/25/2006.

Roy, I was looking hard at that one last night as well. I decided a Kimber Classic Select had to take priority right now.

No Montana?

Can't seem to find one old stock, without a threaded muzzle in 7-08. Plus, I really I'm partial to blue steel and walnut. With just slightly more weight, it's probably a better off hand shooter.

So sorry. I apologize for derailing the thread.

Yeah I get real uptight about wandering off topic, ask anybody.

Now a Spiegel Montana would bring it full circle.

I didn't realize just how nice the quiet was over the weekend.

Oh come on, it could be worse. We could be talking about post mils.


Oh wait....

😊

Smart move eagleman.